PL SUBCOM 06/02/1971 - 31090�,
PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-
STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMI�IITTEE MEETING JUNE 2, 1971
PAGE 1
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Schmedeke at 7:38 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Meissner, Engdahl, Schmedeke, Pierce, Crowder
Members Absent: None
Others Present: Engineering Assistant Darrel Clark
1. PROPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. ��71-02, BRIARDALE, BY RICHARD MILLER HOMES,
INC.: Replat of Lots l, 2 and 3, Block 3 and Outlot No. 1 and Outlot No. 2,
Cochran's Addition.
2. VACATION RE UEST: SAV 4�71-03, RICHARD MILLER HOMES, INC.: Vacation af
McKinley Street South of South line of Rice Creek Road and a 6 foot utility
and-t�ainage easement described as South 6 feet of Block 3, Cochran's
Addition.
Mr. William Jensen of Suburban Engineering, Inc. and Mr. Richard Miller of
Richard Miller Homes were present.
Chairman Schmedeke opened the meeting saying that Mr. Jensen was the former
Chairman of this Subcommittee, and he would ask him to explain the request.
Mr. Jensen stated that the plat is just one row of single family lots off
the City Limits boundary between Fridley and New Brighton. This location has
been a gravel pit for many years with Lenny Cochran the most recent operator.
There have been many controversies about the operati,on of the gravel pits and,
ultimately, most of the difficulties were resolved. Some months ago, he con-
tinued, Mr. Miller purchased all of the land owned by Mr. Cochran incl.uding the
platted lots and outlots.
Referring to the topography on the preliminary plat, Mr. Jensen said it is
a fair representation of the topog as it exists at this time. It was done a
year ago for Mr. Cochran at five foot intervals. The amount of vertical change
on this property runs fram 902 on up to upper levels at about 945 or 946. It
is a difficult piece of ground to develop.
Mr. Jensen continued that the street on the West line, which has been
more or less designated as a collector street in the overall study done some
years ago by the Subcommittee and Planning Commission from Rice Creek Road
to the South, was maintained on this plat. The road on the South end of the
plat connects with the cu1 de sac from the property to the South and exits on
Stinson Boulevard. He pointed out on the preliminary plat where 62nd and 61st
Avenues would be located. There is a proposed plat to the East and South of
Rice Creek Road which indicates a cul de sac facing out to the West. The inter-
vening lot, which is narrow and deep, does not need an access and it is ques-
tionable at this time if the people who live there would be interested in a
road. The petitioner could provide for a turn around in the interim if it is
deemed necessary by the City.
• Plats & Subs -Str & Util Mtg - June 2, 1971 Page 2
The turn around would be on the front ten feet of the second lot. When the
road would go through, the turn around would be automatically taken out.
There are some corner lots that do not meet the City Platting Ordinance. They
would have liked to find more width for these lots, but it wasn't possible.
Mr. Miller has plans for narrow lots without requiring variances. This would
not pose a problem as f ar as proper use of the lots is concerned.
Chairman Schmedeke commented that most of the property goes up and down
rather than on the level. Mr. Jensen said there will be a substantial amount
of fill placed in the very lowest hole. They were not talking about any fills
in excess of ten feet and perhaps somewhat less than that. This will deviate
some from the original Rice Creek plan.
The position of the cul de sac was an absolute necessity because of the
drainage.
Darrel Clark said that the basic problems will be to design the utilities.
It is really an engineering problem. We are just going to have to work with
the petitioner to get drainage. The City of Fridley is not ready to say these
grades are O.K. or should be higher or lower. The corner lots are less than
the required 80 feet.
Chairman Schmedeke said he was in the area and tried to locate where 62nd
Avenue would be.
Mr. Jensen said there will be assessments for storm sewer as the water
from the people who own the deep lot runs through this plat. There has never
been an assessment for storm sewer in this area to his knawledge. The land
to the West is not platted. It is owned by Mr. Carlson of Park Construction.
There is water and sewer on Rice Creek Road and Stinson Boulevard.
Mr. Miller said they use an"L" shaped plan for the corner lots, and
can build without having to go for a variance. Darrel Clark said that unless
the vacation of McKinley Street is approved, it would be impossible to record
the plat. The grades of the land make it difficult to use a normal 20 acres
for four blocks and would lose more land by placing the street down the middle
of the plat. The City is worried about elevations.
Mr. Jensen said he felt their plan would work. It will take some coopera-
tion and coordination but what the plat has indicated is feasible. The
grades along 61st Avenue are 930 to 945 and is the established grade of the
road going off to the South.
�here wi�.l be walk out b aseme�ats on these lots and terraced down, and
tuck under ga�ages.
Utilities are sort of a standard thing. Easement between houses for
drainage.
Mr. Jensen was asked about houses on Stinson -- any problem matching up
with them? He said there would be no problem.
The Subcommittee felt they woul.d like to spend another evening on this
request and to walk the site.
Mr. Crowder noted the street at the West of the plat was just a half
street. He was informed there is a half street on the other side which has
� Plats & Subs -Str & Util Mtg - June 2, 1971 Page 3
not been dedicated yet. If the people would not agree to dedicate their half,
the City would have to condemn and the cost of the condemnation would become
part of the cost of the improvements. However, it is possible the awners of
this land may have been waiting for the land to be developed and would cooperate.
Darrel Clark said the City has been working on the storm sewer for this
area. Mr. Miller probably would have the City put in a partial storm sewer
system and most of the assessments would go to him.
Mr. Miller felt the topog would be much more interesting when the area
is finished and the homes are built on ground which is rolling rather than
flat.
The Engineering Assistant said that the deepest cut for the storm sewer
would be Rice Creek Road, and there probably would be an additional cost.
The cost for 1.00 square feet is approximately $8.00 per 100 square feet. The
storm sewer boundary would be from Gardena to Rice Creek Road and from Central
Avenue to City limits. What Council is doing now on new plats in this district
is to ask for a storm sewer escrow. In this way, Council hopes the home owner
would not be burdened with heavy assessments after moving in.
Mr. Meissner asked that the land requirements for corner lots be checked
for the next meeting.
Chairman Schmedeke asked that each member of the Subcommittee receive a
copy of the original plan in the Rice Creek Road Study.
MOTION by Pierce, seconded by Meissner, that the Subcommittee table until
June 16, 1971 the proposed preliminary plat, P.S. #71-02, Briardale, by Richard
Miller Homes, Inc. being a replat of Lots 1, 2 and 3, Block 3, and Outlot No. 1
and Outlot No. 2, Cochran's Addition and the vacation request, SAV #71-03, by
Richard Miller Homes, Inc. vacating McKinley Street 5outh of the South line of
Ri ce Creek Road and a 6 foot utility and drainage easement described as the
South 6 feet of Block 3, Cochran's Addition, with the members meeting on the
site at 7:00 P.M. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried
unanimously.
Darrel Clark suggested the members wear boots:
3. LOOP BACKS:
Because the Subcommittee is concerned with streets, Chairman Schmedeke
asked them to consider the problem loop backs are presenting. He felt if a
street has a loop back, that the cars not be given direct access on to the main
thoroughfare. For example, if a loop back were on Mississippi Street, the cars
would not be allo�wed to go directly on to Mississippi. He felt the White Knight
Car Wash on 73rd Avenue and University Avenue was a good example of what the
City should be attempting to do. He thought this type of ingress and egress
might attempt to slow down the service station developing a bit.
Mr. Meissner referred to Bob's Produce where access is immediately onto
Osborne Road. The question is how is the problem controlled.
Darrel Clark commented one way would be to put a median preventing left
turns. He did not believe if this control could be part of the ordinance,
but it could be made a practice. If a street is put in, and the owner is
assessed for it, one can hardly tell him he can't use it or prevent him from
l
' Plats & Subs - Str & Util M:tg - June 2, 1971 Page 4
using it.
Mr. Crowder said that somewher� along the line, the loop b acks are bad.
The Subcomanittee could work towards adopting a policy to help alleviate the
situation.
MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Engdahl, that the item of Loop Backs be
put on the Agenda of the June 16, 1971 meeting. Upon a voice vote, aIZ voting
aye, the motion carried unanimously.
ADJOURNMENT :
MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Pierce, that the P1ats & Subdivisions-
5treets & Utilities Subcommittee be adjourned at 8:40 P.M. Upon a voice vote,
aIl voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Respectfully submitted
Hazel 0'Brian
Recording Secretary