PL SUBCOM 03/29/1972 - 31123e
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-
STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING MARCH 29, 1972 PAGE 1
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Schmedeke at 7:40 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
1.
Members Preaent:
Member Absent:
- Others Present:
Engdahl, French, Schmedek.e, Forster
Meissner
Darrel Clark, Engineering Assistant
LOT SPLIT REQUEST: L.S. ��72-02, RONALD E SMITH: Lots 15 and 16, Block 4
and Lots 8,'9, 10, B1ock 1, Adams Street Additio�n. To make three 66 2/3
foot lots from five 40 foot lots.
Mr. David Anderson represented the petitioner as Mr. Smith was out of town.
Mr. Anderson said that he was a builder.
Mr. Clark stated that about a year ago, the five lots (Lots 3, 4, 5, 6, and
7) behind these lots were considered. In this area there are lots that are
smaller than 9,000 square feet. The discussio� had been whether or not we
shpuld try to get one large lot of 8Q feet and two 60 foot lots. The question
was would three 66 2/3 foot lots be better than two 60 foot lots and one 8Q foot
lot. The Council finally approved three 66 2/3 foot lots on these five lots.
Mr. Schmedeke asked Mr. Anderson if he was informed by the City about
lots bein�g 66 2/3 feet. Mr. Anderson said Mr. Smith had been handling this
request and he could not answer that. Mr. Clark said he informed Mr. Smith
the former lot splits and Mr. Smith said he would make the request this way
and be willing to discuss other possibilities.
Chairman Schmedek.e said that in the light of the fact the Subcommittee
had already approved lots of this nature which back up to these lots, in his
opinion, it would be virtually impossible for the Subco�ittee to deny this
request.
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Mr. Clark added that there was no problem as far as the City is concerned
as there were no easements necessary other than the easement fox uti,�ities in
the alley which is not vacated nor open for traffic.
1►JbTION by EngdahZ, seconded by French, that the p.iats & Subdiv�.sions-
Streets and Utilities Subcommittee recommend approval to �he plar�na.ng C��,�,��io�
of the ,i,ot Sp1it Reguest, L.5. #72-02, by Ronald E. Smith to make tlaree fi� 2/3x�s
feet Zots. from five 40 foot lots using Iots 15 and 16, B1ock 4 and .T.,qts 8, 9� and
10, B1ock 1, Adams Street Addition. Upon a voice vote, E�gdahl, Fxen�h, Fpx&te�^
voting aye, Chaira�n Schmedeke abstaining, the motion �arried.
2. VACATION REQUEST: SAV I�72-03, BY GENE HETLAND: Vacate Be�ch St�'eet ��d
A11ey in Block 7, Onaway Park.
Mr. Gene Hetland was present and also Mr. Ray Carlson of the Bxooklyn
Tool Company at 7779 Beech Street.
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Plats & Suhs.-Str. & Util. Meeting - March 29, 1972 Page 2
Chairman Schmedeke said that he was in favor of vacating any alley or
sub-street that is not being used or any plans to be used later on. The sugges-
tion had been made that a study be conducted to determine which streets and alleys
could be vacated. In his opinion, the signers should be 100� for the vacation,
especially if the alley or street is in use at the present time.
Mr. Clark said he talked with Dick Harris in the office last Friday. He
did not have strong feelings for or agafnst, but really felt he would favor the
���acation. Mr. Hetland said the people on i7th Way do not need the alley and
favor the vacation.
Mr. Clark continued that if the Subcommittee were going to recommend the
vacation, the City should retain the utility rights within the alley. There
will be access to three sides of most of the buildings in the block even with
the alley vacated.
. Mr. French said the lots to the East and some of those behind on the West
which are not developed, are strewn with junk sutomobiles, etc.
Mr. Clark said a storm se�aer is now going to be put in the area and the
area of the creek will then be cleaned up.
MOTION by French, seconded by Forster, that the Plats & Subdivisions-
Streets & Utilities 5ubcommittee recommend approval to the Planning Commission
of the Vacation Request, SAV �72-03, by Gene Hetland, to v�cate the a11ey between
Beech Street and E1m Street, 77th Way and 78th Avenue as shown by the map on
Page 7 of the Agenda, subject to utility easement in the a11ey that exists now
and subject to approvaZ of all affected properties. Upon a voice vote, a11
voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
The Chairman asked that every property owner in Block 7, Onaway Addition
be notified by mail of the Planning Coamiission meeting of April 5, 1972.
3. PRpPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. ��72-01, HEATHER HILLS 2ND ADDIT�ON, BY
MIKE 0'BANNOri: A replat of Auditor's Subdivision No. 22
Present to explain the request was Mike 0'Bannon and his partner Merlin
Gaslin.
Chairman Schmedeke explaiiied th�:t thi,s item has been studied since 1968,
and the final plan was felt ta be a good one. Now there is interest in the
West end of the property and he hoped to get the people to agree with a kind
of plan they and the City can live with.
Mr. 0'Bannon explained the amount of developing he had done it� tk�e azea
to date using the final plan of the Rice Cx'eek Road St�dy. His p�an fol�owed
very closely to the original one, but thexe was a slight deviation in tha preaent
plan. Where, originally, a road would be put through the pxoperty of �h�
People's Church, he has used a cul de sac e1.i�aainating an exit to Central, pvenue.
He said the Chies property has still to be cleaned up and Rraded. Mr. Carls�c�n
has done a good job on his property. There is ax� area whi�ch has a laxg� hole
that, he said, was not feasible to fill. However, the terxaine around tt4e ha�.e
is vexy beautiful and he was certain houses could be bui�.t the�e, but s�c►t a�
this time. Speaking of the property where Rev. Henderson lives, he understo�ad
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Sats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Meeting - March.29, 1972 Page 3
that the Church is not certain whether they want to build a church or school
there, and the main concern is that a road will not come through their property
at a later date.
Mr. Clark said the sewer should be out to Central Avenue or, perhaps,
pumped up to Benjamin Street. This problem would be resolved later.
Mrs. Skog was present and said she was able to keep 38 trees on one of
her lots. She was pleased with the way the land was be3ng developed.
Rev. Henderson said if the Church really knew what they were going to do,
he cou�.d �ive a definite answer. He would like to correct an iu�pression when
they refer to this piece of ground -- it is really the church parsonage.
Originally he bought it and retained it for five years, when the Church took
it over as a parsonage. In the final analysis, he st311 wanted to go on record
as opposing the road, but the Church did not know what or how they were going to
use the land. They are interested in the future and would like to retain the
property a l�ttle longer as it is. The dimensions of the property are 129'x240'.
Rev. Henderson continued that they might have to buy additional property
if they built a school. He was not prepared to give any final answers. The
Chuxch would need a parking lot. He would not like having the backyard dug up
from time to time because of utilities. '
Mr. French thought this pl�n retains the most flexibility for Rev. Henderson.
The distance between his cul de sac and Mr. 0'Bannon's would not actually be
too f�r. '
Chairman Schmedeke said he felt Mr. 0'Bannon's plan was one he would be
happy to see.
Rev. Henderson said as far as he could see, the cul de sac would be the
answer. An alternate road would not be acceptable in the future.
Mr. French said this plan allows the Church to plat as they like within
the next six to ten years.
Rev. Henderson said he did not want the City to come in later and say
they have to have an egress through his property.
Chairman Schmedeke said he liked this plan better than the scheme which
they came up with before. If it were left in this form, there was so�e type
of assurance for the Church.
Darrel Clark said that what was approved in 1968 on the Rice Creek Road
5tudy was just a plan. If the Subcommittee recom�nends the preliminary plat of
Heather Hills 2nd Addition, the master plan will be altered to show•a cul de sac
in the 3rd Phase of Mike 0'Bannon's property and also a cul de sac on the
People's Church property. The sewers could go on easements. It is possible
that the sanitary sewer may have to go between the two cul de sacs.
Mr. 0'Bannon said that this may be four or five years from now.
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�lats, & Suhs.-Str. & Util. Meeting - March 29, 1972 Page 4
MOTION by French, seconded by Forster, that the Plats & 5ubdivisions-
Streets & Utilities Subcommittee recommend approval to the Planning Commission
of the preliminary p1at, P.S. #72-01, Heather Hills 2nd Addition by Mike O'Bannon
subject to the plan as approved in 1968 being changed to show a cul de sac in
� the People's Church property and also a cul de sac on the 3rd Phase (Heather
Hills 2nd Addition) of Mike O'Bannon's plat. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye,
�� the motion carr�ed unanimously.
4. LOOPBACKS:
Darrel Clark said he spoke with Mr. Qureshi, City Enginee�, and Petex
Herlofsky, Pl�nning Assistant, regarding the loopbacks. Regarding driveways,
if we are talking about any driveway, commercial, filling station or dr�ve-in
patrpnage, they all come under a Special Use Permit. The City Council and
Planning Commission can ask for quite a bit as iar as setbacks axe conce�nsd.
If the street carries heavy traffic, they, perhaps, could cut off the aceess
and request the property owner put the access where it will not endanger life.
The C�.ty can put in a median that extends far enough to prohibit leFt tur�n
access the first 150 feet.
The present requirement is 75 feet from the nearest intersectio�. When
you look at Uaiversity Avenue between the right of way and the highway, thsre
ia another 75 feet; therefore, this is about 120 feet between �l�e shAUlde�
and the nearest entrance.
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, Mr. Clark continued that the though� W�s by �hanging the ordinance at �his
time, we would be putting more restrictions on other commercial loks and tk�e
restrictions might be unreasonable. If they were unreasonable, it would ba
unconstitutional and could be a court ca�e. We can litpit aceeas �.�tca fi7.�.�.�ng
stations if it is a traffic hazard. Leave it the way it is aad aa �he �.q�pba�ks
are developed, consider each situation aepaxately. This is wha� they �a��.t
could accomplish whatever the Subcommittee or Council wanted.
Chairman Schmedeke said the City did �ot have Khe �oopbacks whet� �1��.�
ordinance was passed origiaally. The Highway Aepartmen� i.s th� oa� �ha� i�arc�ad
these loopbacks onto us. By forcing them o� to us, we k�ave Ch� ids�l ea�vi.a�
station site. Service stations aeed more e�ress and ingress than Che x��s�t
of the businesses, so we are favoring service stations by $iviag �h�m th� 7�;t$��
to turn in 75 feet from the highway. We have too many aervice �Catls��a �ow�
in his opinion. When he spoke to others about service statiot�e, �hay �hq�d
g�ceat concern. The rest of the people that are up and dowa �h� �a�d havE� to
use this service drive. A shinipg example of a case whe�s th� �+e��s� i� ���
enough off the main thoroughfare to meet the approva�. o�' the $ub�p�qmi.���• �.�
the White �night Car Wash. However, he would like the fence t� ��vea ao��
evergxeens planted by it. It would beautify th� atation and tt�� �i�y o� F��.dley,
Even if the exit is 75 feet or 150 feet, some d�civera �oips ��+au�d �t �.� mil�s
an hour and it is a hazard.
�ir. French thought �hat wlth �he st�ckia� rQrnn !or ��x au�omabil+�� aC a
buay in���sectiqn, 150 feet is almost next to �othin�!
Aarrel. Cla►rk eaid thaC waa tru�. Tk�� b��t o�c was�s ��am��� ia M�A���+r�p�al
Str�et which haa more traf�ic tban any Q�hex �ro�s s��e�� in Fx�.�1sy. '�h•
other st�^eets �ould compare wi�h 6ist Stxeg�. He aaid �s wa�n��d �� pcir�� aw�
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Plats: & Suhs.-Str. & Util. Meetin - March 29 1972
PaeS
again that the medians can be extended to go past the first access so it will
prevent the crossing of traffic lines.
Chairman Schmedelce said he did not think he would ask for an ordinance at
this time. He would rather have the Subcommittee come up with a strong recom-
mendatioa for the Plaaning Commission to look at. If the Council decided an
ordinance change should come about, that is the level where it should happen.
He was not preaching that old lots have the same requirement as the loopback
parcels.
Mr. Clark said that, while the Highway Department encouraged the loopbacks,
tt�ey do not have any jurisdiction over them. Fridley is the first suburb to try
them and someti�nes they are called "Fridley Loopbacks". They have good points
and bad points. We are talking about loopback lots being three quarters af an
acre or 1'� acres. Thie amount of land is large enough for a service station.
The City is going to court because the request for a service atation and rezon-
ing on 79th Avenue and East River Road was denied.
� Mr. French said he agreed to some extent. He wondered if the recomane�:daxion
to the Planning Commnission should etress the need or desire on th� par� of the
Subco�pmittee to recommend access of the setback other than 7� feet and/or
restricted more so than has been tried up until now. A lot depends on what klad
of use you are going to put this island to.
Mr. Clark said the islands can still be attractive aad also �e large
enough to meet zoning requirements. A lot under heavy industxiatl �equ�.ree �,�
acres and for light industrial 3/4 of an acre. The access can be contxallsd.
Mr. French said that a 75 foot distance for an access ia very inadequate.
From a traffic design and safety staadpoint, something more than 75 feet is
definitely warranted.
Chairman Schmedeke suggested there be no access onto a busy street.
Mr. Clark sua�arized the discussion stating that first of all� pxpp���y
zoned commercial has to be 75 feet back from the corner -- thia appl�.ea tc� all
commercial zones. Anything that has drive-in patronage oz carry out type has
to have a Special Use Permit. Anything that Council would finally draft up has
to be cons�dered reasonable. The access for the loopback should be re�tri.Cted
at a dtstance greater than 75 feet and strongly suggest that access be liu�3,ted
only to the loopback and not the main street.
Chairman Sch�deke would agree ualess it can be pxoven that they 1ia�� tQ
come off the other way.
,MIDT�TON by French, seconded by Forster, that the plat,s ,� ,�ubdjv.�,��c►�p-
S�reets and Util:ities Subcomm.ittee recommenct to the planniny Gpr�s�ior� �tt
on a11 future loopback construction within the City of Fx.tdley �c�Q�� ,�,� ,�Q�_
sidered only from the loopback or service dripe� however, ,{g ��GQ�� p��o �Q
n+ain street is considered, it should be xestric�eci to a d.�st,�xlce o,t ,�$p fset
or 2/.3rds of the lot width from the major .i�atersection. wh,icl��ves �,� t�,�
s�.1Zer. Upon a voice vot�s, a1Z voting aye, the ar�pti,�n Gatxx.�e� ur�,p,{�ua.Zy.
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Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Meetin - March 29 1972
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5. 40 FOOT FI,ANTING BO'VI,EVARD IN 1�ORE LAKg HIGHLAND$ 4TH [�1DpITION:
Chairman Schmedeke explained that this strip was dedicated on the plat
as a buffer between the homes and bowling alley area. This had bee� xsferred
to the Parks & Recreation Commis�ion. Originally there was su�gestiana of
working with the school, having a nursery for small trees, having a walkway
for children, or even a path for bicycles. Evergreens were suggested far a
buffer screen. He felt the Planning Commission should again iast�.tute some
kiad of action to make the buffer attractive.
ADJOUiiNMEN'L�;:
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1Nt�TION by Mr. French that the meeting be adjourned at 1ps00 p.�y.
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Respectfully su�mitted
��--� C� ��u--a L �
Haz��,/ 0 �Brian
Recording Secretary
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