PL SUBCOM 08/15/1973 - 31140e
L
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS—
STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING AUGUST 15, 1973 PAGE 1
CAI,L TO ORDER:
Chairman Harris called the meeting to order at 8:00 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Others Present:
Harris, Christensen, Meissner, French,
Forster
None
Darrel Clark,
Community Development Adm.
APPROVE PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE
MINUTES: JUNE 6, 1973
MOTION by French, seconded by Meissner, that the P1ats &
Subdivisions-5treets & �tilit�es Subcommitte� m.ir��tes o�.��n��6,
1973 be approved as written. iipon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimousl.y.
1. CONSIDERATION OF A PROPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. #73-06,
HARRIS LAKE ESTATES, BY DAVID HARRIS: A replat of Lots
2, 3, and parts of Lots 4 and 5, Auditor's Subdivision No.
22, being bounded on the North by Mississippi Street, and
on the West by Arthur Street; on the East by the East City
Limits, and on the South by Rice Creek Road.
Mr. Bill Meyer, from Suburban Engineering, was present to
represent the petitioner.
Mr. Clark said this area was up for rezoning about two
years ago by developer Dick Ernst. That plat was similar to
this except he wanted to intermix double bungalcsws with single
family homes and this plat is all single family'homes. There
was a discussion at that time about the drainage. This plat
does have a ponding area but the question of ultimate outfall
is a question that will have to be answered by the City Council.
There are two possible methods of taking care of this. One is
an open ditch to Moore Lake or conduit to Rice Creek. There is
going to be a Public Hearing by Council on the storm sewer in
this area.
Mr. Harris said there is a solution to this problem then.
Mr. Clark said if the open ditch method were used, there
would always be standing water, because it is a low area. The
Engineering staff worked with the petitioner and Suburban Engineering
�
Plats & Subs Str & Util Sub Meeting - August 15, 1973 Page 2
and this is the only way the plat can be developed. Mr. Clark
said he believed the petitioner was negotiating for part of Lot 6
also, but that wouldn't affect what we are considering tonight.
It would just mean an extension of 63rd L�.ne to the East.
Mr. Harris said there is an exemption in the corner of the
plat. Mr. Clark said there are already two or three homes in
this area.
Mr. French said a lot of the land in this plat is low. Mr.
Clark said they had probably noticed that there was a stockpile
of sand in this area now.
Mr. Harris said he had two questions. The first was whether
there were any substandard lots in this plat. Mr. Meyer said he
thought there had been test holes taken but he didn't know the
results. Mr. Harris said that after platting he assumed the developer
would want streets and utilities. He said he wouldn't want any
of these lots to go tax delinquent because they are unbuildable.
Mr. Clark said if there were any such lots they probably could
be handled the way it was handled in Viewcon. There was a certain
percentage of lots that had no assessments assessed against them.
Mr. Clark said the only problem with this was, for instance, you
designate 12 such lots, and there isn't that much difference between
the 12th lot and the 13th, but the buyer of the 13th lot has all
the assessments. The purpose of this is so that the developer can
spend mare money bringing these substandard lots up to buildable
sites. Council can see how this works out in Viewcon and maybe
apply the same thing to this plat. This should be brought to the
attention of the Council.
Mr. Christensen asked if this will continue to be zoned R-1.
Mr. Clark said he hadn't heard any discussion of rezoning. The
availability of sand will help in the development of this plat.
Mr. French said this plat has 65 homesites. This could mean
about 200 children in a concentrated area. I think there is a
need for a tot lot. Mr. Meyers said he thought the open space
around Block 1 on this plat was open for a tot lot.
Mr. French said that as this plat is developed, any of the
few trees on the site will probably be removed. He thought the
developer should be asked to plant trees. Mr. Clark said that
some lending agencies, such as F:H.�:., have asked the �.eveloper
to plant two trees per homesite. Mr. French said that b�cau.se��f
Dutch Elm disease �nd Oak Wilt the City has lost so many trees.
He said he thought,the City should get a plan going for tree
planting.
Mr. Harris s�.id the Planning Commission will be considering
a City tree nurser� in the near future.
Plats & Subs -Str & Util Sub Meeting - August 15, 1973 Page 3
Mr. French said you just had to go out to Locke Park and see
all the trees that �re gone to realize what a serious problem it
is. Mr. Clark said'it is the full grown trees in the older areas
that have been hit �ardest.
Mr. Harris sa�d getting �ack t�
the developer goingl,to cut and fill.
he understands it. 'Mr. Harris asked
pond. Mr. Clark sa�d the City could
ed what's going to happen to the bad soil that
rk said it would be used for street right of
ovement projects. Mr. Harris said he wouldn't
f Fridley and then when we need it, buy more.
pended on how much handling it took as to how
of. We try to anticipate our needs and do
Mr. Harris as
is removed. Mr. C1
ways and street imp�
want it hauled out b
Mr. Clark said it d�
it would be dispose
it the cheapest way',-
Mr. Harris
area. Mr.. Clark
working with New
this stockpile of sand, is
Mr. Clark said that is how
who was going to keep up the
do it and assess it.
d about the water elevation in the ponding
the pond has been engineered and they are
hton.
Mr. Clark sa�d we are having a lot of water table problems
with the lots leftlto build on in Fridley. When we suspect a
water table proble�, we do require the contractor to go down
about three or fou� feet below the footings and check the water
table. If we feel'there would be a problem we ask them to put
in a drain field, �aterproofing and/or put in a sump. Then if
the homeowner doeslhave water problems, he j.ust has to buy the
pump, and not dig �p his whole yard.
Mr. Harris a�ked about the run-off from a heavy rain. Mr.
Clark said this su�face water was handled by the minimun elevation
at grade level set'�by the Engineering Department. He said for the
Wall Corporation t�ey took the 50 year frequency flood plus 3 feet
above that. '
Mr. Harris s id he would like to be assured that these lots
will be cut and fi�led and after it is platted we don't end up
with unbuildable l�ts. Mr. Clark said this should be brought to
the Council's atte tion that there might be unbuildable lots.
Mr. Meissner asked if there was a general rule of thumb in
setting elevations Mr. Meyers said they go by the 50 year flood
and 50 year snowfa 1 and add three feet.
Mr. Meissnerlsaid that homes built
basically without �asements. Mr. Meyers
a basement would b possible. Mr. Clark
would mostly be sp�it foyer's, which are
and they don't go �n the ground too far.
in this plat would be
said, not necessarily,
said he would think they
quite popular right no�,
Plats & Subs -Str � Util Sub Meeting - August 15, 1973 Page 4
Mr. Meyers sa�d that one of the changes on the revised plat
he brought in tonig�t, were that the street right of ways would be
50 feet. Mr. Clark'said most residential streets had 50 foot right
of ways and collect�on streets have 60,to 66 fe�t.
Mr. Meissner �oted the cul-de-sac on Anoka Street. Mr. Clark
said this has a 50 oot radius.
Mr. Harris sa d there would have to be a.turn-aro�nd at �he
end of 63rd Lane an� this would already cause problems with Lots
1 and 22 in Block 3� Mr. Clark said these lots could be built
on last and this wo ld be a temporary turn-around depending upon
whether any of Lot � would be included in this plat. Then 63rd
Lane would be conti ued on the plat or by anyone who develops that
Lot. Then these lo�s would be full size again.
Mr. Meissner sked if this 63rd Lane would ever connect to
a street in New Bri hton. Mr. Clark said the way they are platting
in New Brighton, he didn't think this street would ever be connected.
Mr. Meissner said t at at some time, there would have to be a
permanent cul-de-sa at the end of 63rd Lane then.
Mr. Harris asl�ed who would own the pond. Mr. Clark said he
thought there wouldl be a dedication to the City for drainage ease-
ment and platted as an Outlot. You couldn't expect the homeowners
to maintain it, or the developer to maintain it for years and years.
Mr. Harris thought�lthis was the only way it could be handled.
Mr. Christen en said he would want the basements checked
very closely, duri�g construction, to make sure they are waterproofed.
Mr. Clark sa d when we have the Public Hearing on this, we
will get suggestio�s that the property be left the way it is, for
the wild li�e. Th City cannot afford to buy this property, and
the property owner cannot be expected not to make use of it. Platting
it into single fam'ly homes is the best use of this property.- Mr.
Christe:nsen said h� didn't think this was an environmental problem
Mr. Harris a ked about the easements for utilities. Mr.
Clark said the dev loper and Suburban Engineering would get together
with the utility c mpanies and see where they wanted their easements.
He said that one t ing you might consider is underground utilities.
There isn't much d fference in cost on a new plat. Replgcing
existing above gro nd utilities is expensive.
Mr. Meissner
for this area, wha
be determined this
at Benjamin and Ri
after the Public H
this outfall tc th
the water drains i
asked when they developed the drainage system
was going to happen. Mr. Clark said that would
fall. He said there was a dead end storm sewer
e Creek Road with no outfall. I would t�ink
aring held this fall, that they would extend
se ponds. Mr. Meissner said that theoretically
to the Anoka ditch and then into Moore Lake.
Plats & Subs -Str � Util Sub Meeting - August 15, 1973 Page 5
Mr. Clark said it d�d at one time, but now you can't find the
ditch. Due to deve opment and naturaly filling of the ditch,
most of it has disa�peared.
Mr. Meissner aid that Clarence Olson, who lives on the
Northeast corner of�this property, has been complaining to me
about the water from the pond this year. Mr. Clark said he
thought he would have had a bigger problem last year when there
was more rain. Mr.. Meissner said he said it wasn't so bad last
year, but he was having problems this year. Mr. Clark said
that Anoka, McKinley and Stinson have been paved, so there is
probably more run off.
Mr. Meissner asked if there were going to be problems
during development of this praperty by blocking off the drainage.
Mr. Clark said he would assume that the developer would want the
water lowered before he starts construction.
Mr. Clark said the storm sewer outfall would have to be
handled by a ditch or a pipe. The ditch would come from a
T on Arthur to Moore Lake, or else piped up to Rice Creek. He
said this plat should not be approved by Council until the
drainage problem has a permanent solution.
Mr. Meissner asked Mr. Meyer if he know how many substandard
lot sizes were on the plat. Mr. Meyer said this was just a
boundary survey with the lots being drawn in. They wouldn't know
this until they did the actu�l surveys of the lots.
MOTION by French, seconded by Christensen, that the P1ats
& Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee recommend to the
Planning Commission approval of the proposed preliminary plat,
P.S. #73-06, Harris Lake Estates, by David Harris, a replat of
Lots 2& 3 and parts of Lots 4& 5, Auditor's Subdivision No. 22,
being bounded on the North by Mississippi Street, and an the West
by Arthur Street, on the East by the East City Limits, and on the
South by Rice Creek Road, with the following stipulations:
1. Drainage and storm sewers be determined, before development.
2. Temporary turn-around provided at the end of 63rd Lane.
3. Underground Utilities be used.
4. Include a tot lot on the plat.
5. Developer plan a tree on each lot.
6. Foundation elevations be established and checked for
waterproofing of foundations.
7. Radius be provided at a1I intersections.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Meeting - August 15, 1973 Page 6
Mr. Meissner said he just noted that part of the right of
way for 63rd Lane was on property owned by Newman's.
Mr. Clark said this was a good point. He didn't know if
this had been agreed upon by the Newmans but it would allow
them to split their lot into another building site. It would
also be to Mr. Harris's advantage to get an agreement with the
Newmans because this street would then line up with the street
across Arthur.
2. APPOINTMENT OF VICE-CHAIRMAN
Mr. Harris said he thought the Subcommittee should have
a Vice Chairman in case he was unable to attend a meeting. He
said if the other members concurred, he would like to have George
Meissner take over the meetings, as he has done this befare.
MOTION by Christensen, seconded by French, that George
Meissner be appointed Vice Chairman of the P1ats & Subdivisions-
Streets & Utilities Subcommittee. Upon a voice vote, Harris,
Christensen, French and Forster voting aye, Meisner abstaining,
the motion carried.
Chairman Harris adjourned the meeting at 9:10 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
�
Dorothy E nson, Secretary