PL SUBCOM 02/13/1974 - 31159i,
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-
STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMI,TTEE MEETING
CALL TO ORDER:
FEBRUARY 13, 1974 PAGE 1
Chairman Harris called the meeting to order at 7:34 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Others Present:
Harris, Christensen, Meiss.ner, French
Forster
Darrel Clark, Community Development Adm.
APPROVE PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE
MINUTES: DECEMBER 19, 197�
MOTION by French, seconded by Christensen, that the Plats
& Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee approve the
minutes of the December 19, 1973 minutes as written. Upon a
voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unan�ma�!s7y.
l. CONSIDERATION OF A PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. #74-01, RICE
CREEK ESTATES, BY GOODCO, INC., AND PINE TREE BUTLDERS:
A replat of Lot 10, Auditor's Subdivision No. 22, except
the North 260 feet thereof; and Lot 9, Auditor's Subdivision
No. 22, except the North 260 feet of the West 132 feet,
located between Rice Creek Road and 61st Avenue N.E. and
West of Benjamin Street N.E.
Mr. Edwin Dropps, Mr. Roland Goodroad and Mr. & Mrs. Theodore
'�heilmann �aere present.
Mr. Clark said this plat has been revised to include a park
dedication. It is basically the same except we have taken out
the short cul-de-sac street. Mr. Dropps has agreed to the concept,
but there hasn't been any agreement on the price because this will
be more than 10� of the plat. This park dedication will make nine
less lots on the plat.
Mr. & Mrs. Theilmann are fee owners of a parcel 132 feet wide
and 627 feet deep that starts at Rice Creek Road, Mr. Clark s�:a�ed_ar�d
that the Theilmann's haven't decided if they want to plat their
property at this time.
Mr. Clark said that this plat follows, in some degree, the road
study that was done in this area about five years ago, and from the
staff's standpoint, if Mr. Dropps and the Theilmann`s can come to an
agreement, this plat does meet all the code requirements for lot size
and follows close enough the established street patterns. There will
be some problems with the perim�ter lots but Mr. Dropps said they
would be going to the Board of Appeals for a front yard variance from
35 feet to 25 feet on the lots platted along 61st Avenue N.-�. Z'here
is no right of way dedicated for 61st Avenue on about half of this
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Subcommittee M�eting-February 13, 1974
Page 2
street on the glat. Mr. Clark said he didn"t know if the people
South of this plat on 61st would want to dedicate for this street.
The length of the cul-de-sac could be changed on 61st Avenue.
Mr. Harris asked the radius on this cul-de-sac. Mr. Clark
said it was 50 feet. Mr. French said this was about minimum size
for a cul-de-sac.
Mr. Clark said the park dedication is about 2� acres, approximately
330 feet x 350 feet. He said the area dedicated for a park can be
placed anywhere on the plat, but they would want an area of at least
300 feet x 300 feet so they have room for a ball diamond and other
facilities.
Mr. Harris asked the total acreage of this plat. Mr. Christensen
said it sta�es 17.5 on the application. Mr. Goodroad said he just
guessed at the acreage. Mr. Harris said 10� of this would be 1.75
acres for park dedication.
Mr. Clark said this is going to the Parks & Recreation Commission
later this month, and if they, or the Planning Commission, squelch
the park dedication, the nine lots can be added back into the plat.
� , French �aid
in the vacinity and
greater need.
the park study does show a need for a park
with this area being platted, there will be a
Mr. Clark said there is another parcel to be developed by
Mike O' Bannon next to this parcel, but it is not condu�ive for
park land because it is not level. Mr. Harris asked when Mr.
O'Bannon would be giving land or money for park dedication. Mr.
Clark said it would be in the third phase of his development.
Mr. Dropps said that they felt this was a workable plat. We
have not come to any agreement with the Theilmann's. In fact, we
are at a stalemate. This is a big p�oblem as far as the plat is
concerned. Mr. Harris said the TY�eilmar�� parcel will take a big chunk
out of this plat. Mr. Dropps said they do have some alternate plans.
Mr. Theilmann said he wouldn't get as many lots going along with
this plat as he would if he platted alone. This plat makes �iad lots
much deeper than is necessary. I do not feel that I want to plat at
this time.
Mr. Dropps said Mr. Theilmann's parcel is only 132 feet which
would plat into two 66 foot lots. We could sell him 17 feet to make
these standard size lots, or do some trading of property.
Mr. French said that if these lots were platted �:� 66 foot lots,
he would not be in favor of approvin� lots that were below the minimum
front footage.
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. 5ubcommittee Meeting�FebruaryPage 397�
Mr. Theilmann said if he could purchase up to 18 feet from the
petitioners, at the right price, his lots would meet the minimum
requirements. He said the way he would want to plat his property,
if and when he did, would be into eight lots. He said the way his
property is platted on this proposed plat, he would have to put in
one street and a half street to develop the balance of his property
that is not included in this plat, otherwise, he would end up with
two lots 75 feet x 230 feet deep.
Mr. Harris asked the petitioner what alternate plans he had
without the Theilmann parcel.
Mr. Dsopps gave a tenative explation of how this could be
alternately platted.
Mr. Meissner said he did not like streets jogging at intersections,
he much preferred straight intersections because it caused less of
a traffic problem. Mr. French said that he thought in this particular
area there wouldn't be too much traffic on these streets.
Mr. Dropps said it does create a problem if we have to plat
around the Theilmann parcel.
Mr. Meissner said there was no way approval could be given to
this plat when the two property owners can't agree.
Mr. Christensen asked how they could submit a preliminary plat
when they didn't own all the land being platted. Mr. Goodroad said
they have been negotiating with the Theilmann's and so they had_their
engineer include this parcel in the plat. They have been negotiating
to either buy land from the Theilmann's or plat it all together,
regardless of ownership.
Mr. Harris said that as there has been no agre-ement between the
property owners, we have no alternative but to ask the petitioner
to propose a new plat, excluding the Theilmann parcel.
Mr. Harris asked Mr.Cfiark that if the Theilmann's were agreeable
to platting, if they could accept a plat with two fee owners. Mr.
Clark said they could, but there would have to be some exchanging
of property so that each fee owner would own complete lots. You
couldn't have two fee owners of one lot.
Mr. Dropps said that if they developed their plat under the
supposition that Theilmann's would be platting later, the question
is if they will ever plat.
Mrs. Theilman said they have no plans at this time. They were
thinking about the future and their interest was in doing what was
best for themselves, not what was best for someone eise.
Mr. Dropps said to make this plat work, they would have to have
street dedication from the Theilmann's.
Plats & Subs. Str. & Util. Subcommit�ee �ee,tin � February 1Page9�4
Mr. Meissner said that the Plats & Subdivisions-Streets &
Utilities Subcommittee meeting was not the place to negotiate on
this property. Until an agreement was reached between the two
property owners, whether they both platted or not, no action can
be taken on this plat.
Mr. Clark said the City staff could help the petitioner draw
up an alternate plan, and as far as the park dedication, it is
flex�ble where it can be placed on the plat.
Mr. Dropps asked if they could bring in two preliminary plats,
one with the Theilmann parcel and one without and get approval for
either/or. Mr. Clark said that would be possible. Mr. Meissner
said he would like to consider just one plat.
Mr. Harris �sked how long it would be before_the petitioner's could
have another plat drawn up, or come to some kind of an agreement on }
what they would be platting?
Mr. Dropps said they will have to make a decision in the next
couple of days and could have a plat ready by the first of next week.
Mr. Harris asked when they would like to start building in this
area. Mr. Goodroad said they would like to start tomorrow. There
is a sewer and water project going in North of Rice Creek Road, and
if we can get this plat approved, the sewer and water for this devel-
opment can be added on to this project.
Mr. French said this plat meets all the requirements as far as
lot size and other criteria, so he didn't think it would take too
long to review this plat when a decision was reached on what they
could plat.
MOTION by Meissner, seconded by French, that the Plats & 5ub-
divisions-�treets & Utilities Subcommittee continue the consideration
of a preliminary plat, P.S. #74-OZ, Rice Creek Estates, by Goodco, Inc.,
and Pine Tree Builders, to replat Lot 10, Auditor's Subdivision No. 22,
except the North 260 feet thereof, and Lot 9, Auditor's Subdivision No.
22, except the North 260 feet of the West 132 feet, located between
Rice Creek Road and 61st Avenue N.E. and West of Benjamin 5treet N.E.,
until February 20, 1974, subject to the readiness of the petitioner
to consider a revised plat at that time. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting
aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Mike O'Bannon appeared at the meeting after the petitioner's
had left, to check on the alignment of the streets in the proposed
plat to see how they would line up with Phase 111 of his development.
2. DESIGNATE 1.11 MILES OF STATE AID ROADS
Mr. Clark said there was a memorandum in the agenda explaining
how the 1.11 miles were determined and a priority list by the Engineer-
ing Department, where they feel the���ed is there, and could get
agreement from the State. There is no combination of streets that
will come up to 1.11 miles.
Plats & Subs.-Str & Util. Subcommittee Meetin -February lPage954
Mr. Christensen asked if these priorities listed were all
existing streets. Mr. Clark said they were except Main 9tre�t from
83rd to 85th was not open.
Mr. Harris asked if we can get State aid on a street that is not
open. Mr. Clark said yes, in fact you get more State aid because
funds are available from the beginning.
Mr. Harris asked if it was easier to get State aid on residential
or commercial streets? Mr. Clark said it didn't matter.
Mr. Clark said the City puts in the road but the State subsidizes
it. Mr. Christensen asked if the State maintained it? Mr. Clark
said the city maintains it, but the State pays us to do it.
Mr. Christensen asked if the State subsidized streets because
the state requirements made the street more expensive to install.
Clark answered yes and said the City was allowed to designate 20�
of its streets as State aid, and we are one of the few communities
have been able to stay close to this figure.
Mr.
that
Mr. Meissner said he would like to wait on the des�ignation of
Main Street from 83rd to 85th for another year to see how this area
develops, so he would like the prior'ity to be chariged on this. Mr.
Clark said they have had many calls on this area, and they could set
the priorities the way they wanted, and if something broke in this
area before Council approves the priority list, it could always be
changed.
Mr. Harris said he agreed with Mr. Meissner in that the first
priority should be made the third priority. Mr. Christensen concurred.
MOTION by Christensen, seconded by French, that the Plats &
Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee recommend to the Planning
Commission that the priority for designation of 1.11 mi1e5 of State
Aid Streets be (1) Main Street - Osborne Road to 79th Avenue (0.36
miles), (2) Commerce Lane - 73rd Avenue N.E. to Osborne Road (0.44
miles), (3) Main 5treet - 83rd Avenue N.E. to 85th Avenue N.E. (0.39
miles), (4) Benjamin Street - Rice Creek Road to Gardena Avenue (0.51
miles), (5) Jackson Street - 73rd Avenue N.E. to Osborne Road (0.50
miles. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unan= ,.�
imously.
Chairman Harris adjourned the meeting at 9:00 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Dorothy Ev nson, ecretary