PL SUBCOM 02/20/1974 - 31160\
,
' CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLATS & S�UBDIVIS�DNS-
STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING FEBRUARY 20, 1974 PAGE 1
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairman Harris called the meeting to order at 7:15 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Others Pr�sente,
Har�is, French, Forster, Christensen
Meissner
Darrel Clark, Community Development Administrator
1. CONTINUED: CONSIDERATION OF A P.RELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. #74-01,
RICE CREEK ESTATES, BY GQODCO, INC., AND PINE TREE BUILDERS:
A replat of Lot 10, Auditor's Subdivision No. 22, except the
North 260 feet thereof; and Lot 9, Auditor's Subdivision No.
22, except the North 260 feet of the West 132 feet, located
: b�tsaeen Rice Creek Road and 61st Avenue N.E. and West of Benjamin
Street N . E,.
Mr. Roland Goodroac��was present to re�resent the petitioner. Mr.
and Mrs. Theodore Theilmann were also present. �
Mr. Harris said Goodco, Inc., had presente�d a plat at the
meeting of February 13, 1974 and at that time they were requested
to prepare a plat without the Theilmann parcel.
Mr. Roland Goodroad explained the new preliminary plat proposal.
He said there would be a cul-de-sac with a 50 foot radius at the
end of where the existing right of way ends for 67.st Avenue N.E. They
will have to get additional right of way from people South of the
plat for this cul-de-sac.
Mrs. Gloria Arel, 1521 Ferndale Avenue N.E.�,asked if this road
was going to be cut to the elevation of the gravel pit. Mr. Clark
said the cul-de-sac would be about 300 feet West of Benjamin Street
and would be about 10 feet to 15 feet above the grade at Benjamin.
You can't go steeper than 6� or the cars would have difficulty going
up and down this street in the winter time.
Mr. C�Yarles Rice, 1521 Ferndale Avenue N.E., �aid part of the
circle for the cul-de-sac would be on his property and he didn't want
to give up any of his property for the cul-de-sac.
Mr. Thomas Eggen, 1344 Hillcrest Drive N.E. said there were some
high cliffs in this plat and how did they expect to build homes on m_
them. Mr. Goodroad said they would have tuck under garages. Mr. Harris
asked if all the lots next to Heather Hills would have to have tuck
under garages. Mrs. Clark said that because of the radical grade change
most of these lots would have to have tuck under garages and the two
lots on 62nd Avenue have about sixty to seventy feet of area between
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Sub. Meeting - February 20, 1974 Page 2�
the street and the toe of �he slope therefore they could be normal
at-grade homes.
Mr. Harris asked what the soil conditions were on this plat.
Mr. Goodroad said it was gravel. Mr. Harris asked if there would
have to be some drain tile in �ome areas because of the drop in
grade. Mr. Goodroad said they might have to use some drain tile.
Mr. Harris said Mr. O'Bannon had come to the last Plats & Sub-
divisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee meeting after the petitioner
had left, and it didn't seem that he would be agreeable to having any
grade change started on his property, so any grade change would have
to start at the property line.
Mr. Harris asked about drainage for this plat. Mr. Clark said
it would depend upon when the Theilmann parcel was platted as to
where the drainage would go, but there wasn't a drainage plan for
this plat yet. �
Mr. Harris asked about public utilities. Mr. Clark said they
would come in from Benjamin. He said there was an 8" pipe and this
was large enough to take care of this area and there would be enough
of a drop, for these utilities.
Mr. Harris asked about the electric and telephone lines. Mr.
Goodroad said they intended to have underground utilities.
Mr. Robert Ledin, 6243 Kerry Lane N.E. asked what would be
assessed against the abutting property owners for the development of
utilities for this plat.
Mr. Harris said he thought the only assessment would be for
storm sewer and this Subcommittee couldn't say if Mr. Ledin would
be assessed or not. This would be determined b� the City Council,
and they would hold a Public Hearing for any assessments.
Mr. Goodroad said he didn't know if there would be storm sewers
in this area. It might be handled by catch basins.
Mr. Rice, 1541 Ferndale Avenue N.E., said he didn't want to lose
property for the cul-de-sac and then get assessed for the street also.
Councilman-at large Utter said that the lots on Ferndale were
large enough so they could be split into two lots when 61st Avenue
with the cul-de-sac is constructed. Mr. Rice said they didn't want
to split their lot.
Mr. Utter said he thought there was a problem being created with
the area being set aside for a neighborhood park. There should be
another access to this park or it would be almost landlocked from
the children South of this plat. They would be cutting through private
property to get to the park. He thought there could be some shifting
of Lots 10 through 15, and 10 feet could be taken off Lot 9, to allow
a walkway along Lot 15. Mr. Harris said 10 feet could be provided for
a walkway in this area.
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Sub. Me�ting - February 20, 1974 Page 3
Mr. Larry LQmbke, 1505 Ferndale Avenue N.E., asked if his property
would be assessed for any storm sewer needed for this plat. Mr.
Harris said he wouldn't think so, but couldn't say with certainty
because the storm sewer design has not been made for this plat.
Mr. Clark said the petitioner is not dedicating the land for
the entire park. He is dedicating 1.8 acres and the additional acre
or more would have to be purchased by the City. This premininary plat
is also going to the Parks and Recreation Commission for consideration
of the park.area.
Mr. Harris asked about the lots along Heather Hills. He wondered
if it would help to make deeper lots. Mr. Clark said the front elevation
of these lots was 920 feet and the bank elevation was 950 feet. He
said they can make up 4 feet with the driveway and another 6 feet
with the tuck under garage, so that would be 10 feet altogether. This
would make a three to one�I�e or 20 vertical feet in about 70 feet
horizontal in the rear yard.
Mr. Harris asked if all these lots would be buildable. Mr.. Clark
said he thought there would have to be some terracing and retaining
walls, if they were going to be buildable.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Goodroad if they planned�any vegetation in
the area. Mr. Goodroad said they didn't have any plans as yet. Mr.
French said they have been asking that new plats provide one tree per
lot. This should be a tree that is disease resistant with a minimum
of 2" diameter. Mr. Goodroad said they have put it in the purchase
agreement or in a covenant that the property must be sodded one year
from completion of a home site in other areas, and this could be done
here.
Mrs. Gloria Are� said she had a petition signed by 25 people
who were against this plat that she would like to present. Mr.
Harris said the Plats & Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee
could receive this petition and pass it along to the Planning Commission.
MOTION by Christensen, seconded by Forster, that the Plats &
Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommitee accept the petition�:
waive the reading of this petition and pass it on to the Planning
Commission. Upon a voice vote, aIl voting aye, the motion carried
unanimously.
Mr. Lembke, 1505 Ferndale Avenue N.E., said he lives at the
dead end of Ferndale and it is no problem and he thought 61st Avenue
could be a dead end. Mr. Harris said it was poor planning and poor
engineering to have a dead end street without a turn around. It makes
it difficult for plowing snow, inconvenient for emergency vehicles,
and trucks have to pull into a private driveway to turn around. Mr.
Lembke said trucks use his driveway and he doesn't mind. Mr. Clark
said it is a dangerous practice if there are children playing in the
area.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Theilmann how he liked the revised pre-
liminary plat presented at this meeting. Mr. Theilmann said he was
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Sub. Meeting - February 20, 1974 Page 4
not prepared to develop his property at this time, but the plan
presented toni�ht does not hamper our plan to plat our property
at a later date. I will get 8 lots with this proposal, if I can
get additional land from the petitioner to make the lots meet the
required front footage. Mr. Goodroad said they have set aside a 20 foot
str�p for this purpose.
Mr. Harris said we still have the problem of the cul-de-sac
on 61st Avenue. We will have to ask the petitioner to obtain the
right of way for the cul-de-sac or have the City negotiate for it
or start condemnation proceedings for this right of way.
Mr. Harris wondered if some of the property shown as park
property could be moved so there would be room for the cul-de-sac
on this plat. Mr. Clark said the terrain was such that they would
need at least 300 feet by 300 feet for park property to provide the
facilities the Park & Recreation Director would like to see in this
park. A ball diamond ��eds 250 square feet. If the petitioner has to
�horten the cul-de-sac, he will lose Lots 20 and 21 for building sites
and the balance of these lots could probably be added to the park
property. Mr. Clark said the petitioner can work with the neighbors
and the Parks & Recreation Commission on this cul-de-sac but he didn't
think this should hold up the plat.
Mr. Theilmann said they didn't want to dedicate the road for
Woodside Court at this time because if they did, they might as well
plat because they would get all the assessments, and they ��r�n't in
a position to plat at this time.
Mr. Goodroad said he has already lost 15 lots from this plat,
and the plan presented tonight �as the best he could do to please
the most people. If this plat wasn't acceptable, he was ready to
let the property go back to the City.
Mr. Harris said there is going to have to be some street dedication
from the Theilmann's for Briardale Road that will be going through at
the present time on this plat. There is a smalltriangle of the
Theilmann property in this road. He thought this dedication would be
of mutual benefit to both parties.
Mr. Goodroad said he didn't think it would hinder any property
even if they didn't want to split their lots, to have a small part
of the cul-de-sac on the property South-of this plat for 61st Avenue.
Mr. Clark said it wouldn't take much property, but the people
didn't want the assessments that would come with having this cul-de-sac
on their property.
Mr. Harris said that if the petitioner didn't want to negotiate for
the 61st Avenue right of way he needs for the cul-de-sac, or couldn't
negotiate, then it would have to be negotiated by the City or condem-
nation proceeding would have to take place. He said this would add
25� in administrative costs to the cost of acquiring this right of way
and this would be assessed back to the property owners in the project.
For this reason, it is better and cheaper for the petitioner to do his
own negotiating._ Mr. Harris said he thought the Subcommittee would be
negligent if theyapQroved this plat without the street dedications.
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Sub. Meeting - February 20, 1974 Page 5�
Mr. Harris said you'either pay now qr pay later.
Mr. Goodroad said it seemed like the developer gives everything.
Mr. Harris said that it was one of the hard facts of life, that a
developer has to give to get.
Mr. Harris said he didn`t warit t.o get into any real estate dealings,
but perhaps Mr. Goodroad could do some trading with the Theilmann's
for the right of way on the small corner of their parcel needed �or
right of way on Briardale Road, and the Theilmann's needed a 17 foot
strip to make their lots meet the minimum front footage requirements,
when they want to develop their plat.
Mr. Harris said that Woodside Court could be temporarily dead-
ended until the Theilmann's were in a position to plat.
Mr. French said that one solution would be for the Theilmann's
to dedicate the street right of way to the City on Briardale Road
in consideration of the petitioner platting his,garcel in such a
way as to allow Mr. Theilmann to get 8 lots when he is able to plat.
Mrs. Theilmann said they would like to check with their attorney
on this.
�r. Harris said we wouldn't have to have the street dedic�tion
until Council was ready to consider the final plat.
Mr. Theilmann said as long as they didn't have to give an
answer on this right now, they didn't want to hold up approval of
the plat.
MOTION by French, seconded by Christensen, that the Plats &
Subdivisions�5treets & Utilities Subcommittee recommend to the Planning
Commission approval of a preliminary plat, P.S. #74-OI, Rice Creek
Estates, by Goodco, Inc., and Pine Tree Builders, being a replat of
����10, Auditor's 5ubdivision No. 22, except the North 260 feet
thereo�; and Lot 9, Auditor's Subdivision No. 22, except the North
260 feet of the West 132 feet, Iocat�d between Rice Creek Road and
61st Avenue N.E. and West of Banjamin Street N.E. with the following
stipulations:
(1) Subject to obtaining street dedication from the Theilmann's
for the exte�sion of Briardale Road.
(2) Subject to obtaining right of way for cul-de-sac on 61st
Avenue N.E. or realignment of the cul-de-sac on petitioner's
property. This may be negotiated at the time the discussion
takes place with the Parks & Recreation Commission.
(3) Walkway be provided to the park from Benjamin in the vacinity
of the South line of Lot 15.
(4) Subject to negotiation with the City for additional park land.
(5) Provide underground utilities.
Plats & Subs -Str & Util Sub Meeting - February 20, 1974 Page 6
(6) One tree planted per Iot, 2" minimum:diameter.
(7) Grades fo be worked out with the City Engineering Department.
(8) Lots that have grade difficulties, with a three to one slope,
after the grade is established, be sodded within one year of
completion.
(9) Woodside Court be temporarily dead-ended on the East and
West side of the Theilmann lot line.
Upon a voice vote aII voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Chairman Harris adjourned the meeting at 8:40 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
i
2�Gna-oa�
Dorothy enson, Secretary
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