PL SUBCOM 10/16/1974 - 31164i �
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-
STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING OCTOBER 16, 1974 PAGE 1
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairman Harris called the meeting to order at 8:00 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Harris,
Members Absent: Forster
Others Present: Darrel
Christensen, Meissner, French
Clark, Community Development Administrator
APPROVE PLATS & SUBDIVTSIONS-STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES:
AUGUST 14, 1974
MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Christensen, that the PZats &
Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities �ubco�nmittee minutes of August 14,
1974 be approved as written. Upon a voice vote, aZl voting aye, the
motion carried unanimously.
I. CONSIDERATION OF A PROPOSED PRELIMINARY PLA T, P.S. #74-06, ZANDER'S
1ST ADDITION, BY DAILEY HOMES INC.: A replat of Lot 3, Auditor's
Subdivision No. 92, except the North 169 feet of the West 164 feet
,thereof, generally located South of 61st Avenue N.E.,>.between
Benjamin Street and Mc Kinley Street N.E.
Mr. Howard C. Thorson of Dailey Homes, Inc. was present.
Mr. Clark said that this was the only unplatted land in this
general block. The property in this area belongs to Mr. Zanders with
the exception of that belonging to Mr. Ken Korin, which is on the
Northwest corner of this plat. The street d�dication on this plat
for 61st Avenue where it �eetsMc Kinley is si�own as 25 feet. He
said he had checked with the Engineering Department and they reported
that they didn't need 25 feet because the road is already there so
20 feet would be adequate. This five feet would be added to Lot 6
to make it 80 feet, which is what we need on a corner lot. As far
as the balance of the plat v�tas concerned, the shape and size of the
lots are pretty much dictated by the size and shape of the parcel.
Mr. Clark said he had talked to Mr. Ken Korin who is present
at this meeting, and there is a discrepancy in the surveys. Mr.
Korin had a survey made 18 years ago, and again about 5 or 6 years
ago. The survey of the proposed plat shows a four foot difference
where the south line of Mr. Korin's property meets the north line of
this plat. According to Mr. Korin, if this survey is right, wher2
61st Avenue exists, it would lie on his property. M�. Clark said
he hoped this survey was wrong. He said that Pine Tree Builders had
just platted on one corner, Briardale was a new plat on another corner.
Andy Gowel and Amber Oaks are quite new plats, so in checking all these
plats, they should come to one point on this corner.
Mr. Clark said that although Mr. Korin questions the survey line
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Sub. Meeting October 16, 1�74 Page 2
on this plat, he didn't know what the Subcommittee could do at this
time, in the consideration of the preliminary plat.
Mr. Korin, 6051 Benjamin Street N.E., said he wanted the survey
line resolved before this plat was finalized. He continued that the
survey line he has used has been registered with the City for 18 years.
He said that the stake in his yard has been used by others in determining
their property lines, so if this stake is off, other property lines would
be off also. Mr. Korin said he didn't think it was up to him to prove
where his property was located and thought the new survey would have to
be rechecked. Mr. Clark said that surveys aren't registered with the
County, but Mr. Korin did have the property surveyed 18 years ago and
has been occupying the land according to this survey. Mr. Clark
continued that sometimes the survey will indicate three points in his
surveying, the pro-rated line, the platted distance and the occupation
line.
Mr. Korin said he just wanted the Subo.ommittee to be aware that
there was a discrepanc �in the line, because after everything was
finalized, it would be too late to have this problem resolved; and
also he wanted to check on the drainage plan.
Mr. French said this �as just the first of many steps in the
process of getting a plat approved.
Mr. Clark said the drainage is shown on the plat. The dash
lines are existing elevations and the solid lines are the proposed
elevations. Mr. Thorson said Mr. Korin's property would still drain
the same way as it is now. Mr. Clark said they are extending an inlet
for drainage.
Mr. Korin said that at the time Benjamin Street was put in, Mr.
Qureshi said he could drop this street one foot for drainage or use
the money to put in a drain south of his property. Mr. Korin said
he wanted both, but he couldn't have both, so he didn't think the drain
was low enough to drain his property.
Mr. Clark said that on this plat there was a catch basin south
of Mr. Korin's south property line. It shows an invert of 839.94.
Then they show 92 feet of pipe going east, with an inlet elevation
of 940.3. These figures can be verified, but it should be low enough
t:o drain Mr. Korin's yard. Mr. Clark asked Mr. Korin if there was a
low spot in his back yard. Mr. Korin said he had it graded that way
so it would dra�n away from his house and drain into a hole south of
his p�operty.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Clark if it was the intent of this plat
to balance the fill. Mr. Clark said no, there would be a lot of excess
fill. Mr. Harris asked the soil conditions on the plat. Mr. Clark said
there was about 2 feet of clay, overlying gravel.
Mr. Harris said there is an existing house that is going to be
moved onto Lot 1, and set where that hole that's used for drainage is
now, is this correct? Mr. Thorson said it was. Mr. Harris asked if there
would be any problem with this. Mr. Thorson said any bad soil would
have to come out and the fill would have to be compacted.
Plats & Subs., -Str. & Util. Sub. Meeting October 16, 1974 Page 3�
Mr. Harris asked how old this house was and what improvements
would have to be made to bring it up to code. Mr. Thorson said
it was about 30 to 35 years old, and would have to be updated as
far as heating, plumbing and electricity were concerned. He said
that structurally, the house was in pretty good condition. Mr. Harris
asked if this house had a garage. Mr. Clark said no, and if this
house was going to have a garage, it would probably have to be a tuck
under, because of the elevations of the lot where this house was going
to be placed.
Mr. Harris said that essentially there wouldn't be any vegetation
left on this property after grading. Mr. Clark said no, because the
entire property will have to be regraded. There might be some trees
that could be saved on the south end of thisproperty_ on the boulevards.
mr. Thorson said they made it a policy to save every tree they could,
but he couldn't see that many trees could be saved on this plat.
Mr. Harris asked if all the lots would meet the minimum requirement:
Mr. Clark said they all would except the corner lot mentioned befo�e,
which would meet the requirements after the 20 foot dedication for
61st instead of 25 feet.
Mr. Harris said that 61st is only half dedicated then. Mr. Clark
said yes, it was only about a 25 foot street. Mr. Harris said this
makes it a substandard street. Mr. Clark said there was a five foot
dedication for this street after Briardale was platted that doesn't
show on the map, which gives the City a 30 foot right of way and with
this additional 20 feet from this plat, they will have the standard
50 foot right of way the eity usually has in residential areas. Mr.
Harris said there is no dedication on Mr. Korin's property and if this
street was widened to a standard street of 31 to 36 feet, it will have
to be narrower in front of Mr. Korin's property and this would be a
bottleneck as far as traffic flow.
Mr. Korin said that at the time 61st Avenue was going in, he
fought against this street. He said he had owned his property for
18 years and had built his house so that eventually he could split his
property and sell off a building site. If he gave the City an easement
for this street, he would be left with 3/4 of a lot, so instead of
just giving up the easement, he would be losing a lot he could eventually
sell. He said he never wanted this part of his lot to be a corner lot
so he couldn't meet the lot requirements.
Mr. Harris said he thought this problem was going to have to be
dealt with some time, because this was creating a potential traffic
hazard. �
Mr. Meissner asked the dimensions of Mr. Korin's existing house,
north to south. Mr. Korin said he was annexing 5 feet from Mr. Zander
to make his lot 169 feet. His garage should be 10 feet from the prope�ty
line then, his house was 36 feet with an 18 foot addition, which would
make a tot�.l .�of 88 feet. He would have 81 feet :left, according to his
survey. Mr. Meissner said these figures don't allow for the 10 foot
sideyard required on this existing house, so this would make the part
of the lot Mr. Korin would like to sell someday as only 71 feet, which
wouldn't meet the 80 foot requirement for a corner lot. Mr. Korin said
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Sub. Meeting - October 16, 1974 Page 4
the new surveyor was helping him out because of the.4 foot descrepanc�.
Mr. Meissner said he was aware of this problem, but it couldn':t be
solved at this meeting.
Mr. Korin said he was concerned about the survey discrepancy
and the drainage, otherwise he had no objection to this proposed plat.
Mr. Christensen asked if the conflict on the surveying should
hald up the Subcommittee's recommenda�ion on this plat, or could it
be made a stipulation. I�r. Meissner said this would have to be resolved
before any final approval could be given on the plat.
Mr. Clark said he thought it should be stipulated that the
conflict between the two surveys would have to be resolved, that there
should be utility easement along the back property lines of the plat,
and a storm sewer easement for the pipe ad�ace�t to the south property
line to the exception in this plat.
Mr. Korin asked who would check that this catch basin would take
care of his drainage problems so he didn't get water in his basement?
Mr. Clark said this pipe is at least 4 feet below your basement and
it"s a minimum of a 12" pi�e, so it should take care of all the drainage.'
Mr. Meissner asked if Mr. Korin had a problem af ter this plat was
developed, who would he seek redress from? He said he supposed it
would be a legal problem that would have to be resolved in court.
Mr. Clark said that if Mr. Korin would allow his property to be
disturbed, th�re could be a swale put in on his property on the
east side, and part of the drainage could go to 61st Street. Mr. Korin
said he would have no objection to this. He said he didn't think it
would be that much of a swale and he was most concerned about water
�Q�i�q. ;_nto his basement.
Mr. Thorson a5ked Mr. Korin if he wanted an agreement drawn up.
Mr. Korin said he didn't think that was necessary. He has stated that
he would allow this encroachment on his property so that a swale could
be provided, and he thought this was enough. Mr. Meissner told Mr.
Korin that this would be a private agreement between Mr. Korin and
Dailey Homes. The City could stipulate that an agreement be reached
between the two parties, but how much Mr. Korin's property would be
�isturbed would be something that would have to be worked out with
Dailey Homes. Mr. Korin said he felt this would be a safety valve
for the drainage of his property. He said that when there were heavy
rains, there would be about 8 feet of water in that hole south of his
property, and he juat felt that the pipe could not handle that much
water. Mr. Korin said if th�re was a swale on his property, and also
on Lot 6 of this plat, he thought this would solve the drainage prob-
lem for his lot, as the overflow water would go to 61st Avenue.
Mr. Harris�:asked Mr. Thorson if he was going to run overhead or
underground utilities? Mr. Thorson said he thought they would be
underground. Mr. Harris asked about the charge for this. Mr. Korin
said he worked for the power company and this was sort of up _in the air
right now. They did have it so that there was a flat rate of $220 for
underground utilities or the option of paying $2 per month. There
was a court case on this charge, so he couldn't say what the policy
would be until this court case was settled. Mr. Clark �Qld th�
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Utilities Sub.'Nleet'ing - Qctabex 16,: 1974 �age 5
Subcommittee that he thought they should get a representative out
from N.S.P. at one of their future meetings to explain the policy.
Mr. Korin said it was true that it cost more to find problems
with underground utilities than overhead utilities.
Mr. French said the Subcommittee usually stipulated �Y�at one
tree be planted on each lot, 2" in diameter, and due to the amount
of grading needed on this property, this would be needed.
MOTION by French, seconded by Christenson, that the Plats & Subdivi-
sions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee recomm�nd to the Planning
Commission, approvaZ of the proposed pZat, P.S. #74-06, Zander's lst
Addition, by DaiZey Homes, Inc., being a replat of Lot 3, Auditor's
Subdivision No. 92, except the North 169 feet of the West 164 feet
thereof; generally Zocated south of 6lst Avenue between Benjamin Street
and Mc Kinley Street N.E., with the following stipulations:
I. Survey problems must be resolved.
2. Provide an easement for the storm sewer as shown on the
p1at.
3. Provide an easement along the rear .Zot .Zines for other
utilities.
4. So1ve the drainage problems with Mr. Korin.
5. Provide one tree per Iot, 2" in diameter.
6. Reduce the street dedication for 61st Avenue from 25 feet
to 20 feet, so Lot 6 wil.� have the required SO' front
footage.
7. Provide underground utilities.
Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Korin said he hoped the drainage could be worked out so this
plat wouldn't be finalized without it. Mr. Thorson said that this was
one of the stipulations of the plat and it wouldn't be approved without
an agreement. Mr. Meissner said all the contour lines would have to
be adjusted to show how the drainage problems were going to be resolved.
If there is some sort of written agreement needed, this will have to
be part of the plat at the time it is submitted for final approval.
Mr. Harris said he wanted the minutes to show that he disagreed
with the street layout of 61st Avenue as it presently exists. He said
r�e thought it was a traffic hazard and just plain bad planning.
Mr. Clark said he knew the City did try to get the street
dedication from both Mr. Korin and Mr. Zander at the time 61st
Street was going in. It got to the point of no return. Mr. Meissner
said the lot Mr. Korin has left is a substandard lot at the present
time.
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Util. Sub. �eeting - October 16, 1974 Page 6
2. CONSIDERATION OF A VACATION REQUEST, SAV #74-04, BY JERRY GUIMONT:
Vacate that portion of a 15 foot utility easement needed for a
30' x 24' addition to an existing garage locatzd on Lot 12, Block 5,
Rice Creek Plaza South Addition, the same being 6551 2nd Street N.E.
Mr. Clark said we have letters from the four utility companies
involved, saying that they haVe no objection to vacating that portion
of the 15 foot easement the garage slab is sitting on. The surveyor
has not as yet given us an exact description of what is to be vacated,
but when he does, we will set up a hearing on this vacation.
There is a 25 foot easement in this area, and the 30 foot addition
to the garage will encroach about 7 feet into this easement. The
telephone pole will be about l foot from this garage, but the power
company says they have no objection to this, and they will not move
the pole, because this �s on a corner, and would cost about $2,000 to
move. This pole is used by N.S.P, Northwestern Bell and General Televi�
sion. Mr, Clark said that as long as the four utility companies have
no objection to this ericroaohment, and there is no objection from the
City Engineering Department, he �s�� no reason this vacation shouldn't
be �ranted.
Mr. Meissner asked if the slab was already th�re. Mr. Clark said
it would be by October 17th. Mr. Meissner asked if they had a building
permit. Mr. Clark said they did.
Mr. Meissner said he strongly resented people putting the City
in the position of having to approve something that was already a fact.
We are being asked to approve something that has already been given
away.
Mr. Clark said that it was either that, or the petitioner couldn't
build a garage until next year. Mr. �eissner said that wasn't the
point, the City should not be forced into those positions.
Mr. Clark said the p�tii�tii�m�r has been working for about a month
to get the letters from t�e utility companies and getting a surveyor out
to his property to lay out the position of the garage so he would know
what vacation he would need. Mr. Meissner said he must have been
thinking of this earlier than a month ago, so the fact that it is this
late in the season should have nothing to do with it.
Mr. Clark said there is some question from the attorney's office
that the pe�itioner should even have to ask for a vacation of a utility
easement when all the utility companies have stated in writing that they
have no objection to this encroachment. Mr. Clark said he advised the
petitioner to get the vacation, or it could cause problems at the tim�
of the resale of this building, as far as getting a mortgage cvmmitment.
The reason Nlr. Guimont wants to add on to the present garage is because
this property is a seven unit apartment bu�lding and his tenants are
asking for garage space. He provides off street parking for about 8
cars now, but doesn't have garage space. With the addition, th�re will
be room for 5 cars in the garage.
Mr. Meissner said that-in looking at this proposal, he has no
objection to the vacation, it's just the putting of the cart before
the horse that he object�d to. Mr� French said he agreed. ,
. �
Plats & Subs.-Str. & Utilities Sub. Meeting October 16, 1974 Page 7
MOTION hy French, seconded b� Christensen, that the P1ats & Sub-
divisions-Streets & UtiZities Subcommittee recommend to the Planning
Commission approval of the request for a vacation, 5AV #74-04, by
Jerry Guimont, to vacate that portion of a 15 foot utility easemerit
needed for a 3Q' x 24' addition to an existing garage to be established
by a surveyor, Iocated on Lot Z2, Block 5, Rice Creek Plaza 5outh
Addition, the same being 6551 2nd Street N.E. Upon a voice vote, a11
voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Clark said he knew that the City could issue building
permits on a utility encroachment if all the utility companies agreed
to this in writing because they are�going to allow the Wall Corporation
to build their garage for their ��Partment buil3ing in the pond easement.
3. DISCUBBION
Mr. French asked Mr. Clark if he would check with the telephone
company and see when they w�re going to clean up the mess they have
made in the front yards on Gardena. He said he lives in this area
and people know he is on a Committee for the City and have been giving
him some heat on this. He said the City had come out with a street
sweeper and cleaned up the mess in the streets that they left, but
he has been driving over a hump of dirt in his driveway for 2 weeks.
Mr. Clark said he would call the telephone company. He said
that sometime they farm out some of their work and maybe they weren't
aware of this problem.
Chairman Harris adjourned the meeting at 9:25 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Dorothy Ev son, Secretary
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