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PL 05/11/1967 - 30991,:i . �1 � �PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - MAY 11, 1967 PAGE 1 ROLL CALL• The meeting was called to order by Acting Chairman Hughes at 7;35 P.M. Members present: Myhra, Jensen, Hughes, Erickson Member absent: Ylinen Others present: City Manager Wagner, Engineering Assistant Clark APPROVE MINUTES OF PLANNING CONIMISSION MEETING: APRIL 27, 1967: MOTION by Jensen, seconded by Myhra, that the Planning Commission l�tinutes of April 27, 1967 be approved. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE MINUTES OF BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL MEETING: APRIL 25, 1967: MOTION by Ericks4n, seconded by Jensen, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Building Standards-Design Control meeting of April 25, 1967. Upon a voice Vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE MINUTES OF BOA.RD OF APPFALS MEETING: APRIL 26, 1967: MOTION by Myhra, seconded by Erickson, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Board of Appeals meeting of April 26, 1967. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 1. DISCUSSION: THIRD STREET PATTERN: Property owners were invited by mail to attend the meeting and participate in discussion. Chairman Hughes stated that, first of all, he thougiit it proper for him to say this was not a formal public hearing, that no plan would be considered by the Planning Commission at this point, and there have been a number of proposals made, but they will not be considered now. T'his meeting was to be an informal discussion to give the people a chance to express their opinions. This area has been under consideration by the Planning Commission for a year or longer in terms of traffic circulation. The problem is whether there should be some automobile traffic route between 57th Avenue at the Holiday Store and 61st Avenue (a North-South through street) and if there should be, how it should be extended from 57� Avenue to the South. Discusaians have raised a number of points, and if, accidentally, one or more points seemed to be str.essed, it is by accident. The Planning Coirnnission has not come to a majority of opinion as to the best solution to the problem. The audience was informed that before University Avenue was repaved, there was a suggestion that a service drive on the West side of University A�enue /^� be built. This was ruled out by the Highway Department at the time the highway ,_... was put through, and it does not exist now. Another alternative that has been discussed is the use of 3rd Street as a North-South through street with a connection at the South end where the Street now runs out to be decided. Another alternative is to use one of the � _ _. : �s _ , - • . Planning Commission Meeting - Mav 11, 1967 Page 2 streets down the center of the area, probably 22 Street, and construct a �� straight through street from 61st to 57th; and considering the use of Main Street as a main North-South leader with no through traffic in the residen- � tial area. . It was noted that the area is one of mixed uses; some connnercial, single family, two family and apartment buildings. As a result, you cannot say it is residential and must be treated as such because there some coz�unercial also. The problem facing the commercial businesses is access. They have found it is difficult to direct a customer how to get to their stores. The fact that there are a large number of hames creates a problem of a through street carrying a large amount of traffic in terms of safety to the people and the children. Chairman Hughes continued, that we are not here to consider a specific proposal but rather to encourage a discussion with the audience hoping that the people who live in the area would express their feelings. It is unlikely that a de�ision will be made tonight or in the immediate � future. There are other factors concerning the general street pattern of the City itself which have to be taken into account. It will take some time before we can resolve the problem. � Mrs. Donald Crooks, 5910 2nd Street, asked the reason for the abandon- ment of the service road on the West side of T.H. �k47. The City Manager explained that he was not employed by the City when the Highway Department first started to plan the road in 1939. It was his coa- jecture that when Chey were acquiring property at that time,.that as late as �'^ 1954, the estimated population of Fridley was 18,000. By the time he got here, they had had about 15 preliminaay plans to the Council. As the years went by and they planned more and more, their standards changed and they just ran out of land as they had underestimated their right of way needs in 1939. � As their design standards improved and their estimate of traffic flow in- creased beyond where they originally anticipated, they needed more right of way for the highway itself. He raised protests many times about not having a service road. He felt they ran out of right of way width for the new stan- dards of highway. Eldon Schmedeke, 5900 University Avenue: I am the fellow to blame for getting you here. We all know we didn't get the service road which I feel . we should have. The people from 60th Avenue down on 22 Street and on 3rd Street present tonight a petition requesting the extension of 3rd Street South, because they feel they are entitled to a way out. Holiday had a proposal which, when I was appointed to the Plats & Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittes that was for a way out. They were to put in a street from 57th Avenue to 58th Avenue. However, after the committee I was on had kicked it around for two months, Holiday passed on it. I did not want it to be dropped and I asked the Planning Commission to continue it. At 4:00 o'clock on the meeting day, I was notified by Mr. Rote of Erickson Petroleum, Inc. they had dropped it. I asked for 3rd Street to be used as it was on the Holiday proposal. I think now,our best road would be to condemn the property on 3rd Street going as far as the third row. Many people are talking about the traffic that is going through. It would bring traffic in along the road. There would be no through /^� traffic because you cannot turn left to go on the ma.in highway at 57th Avenu,e. .�.- That would be the proposal most logical at this time. We don't need a service road on Main Street which is four blocks away. I propose they consider ex- tending 3rd Street as it is the best way out. I don't know if we can get cooperation from Holiday at this late date: Planning Coimnission Meetin� - Mav 11, 1967 Page 3 One of the reasons some of us down in this area have not had the atten- tion we should have had is because our area has not been represented on the �1 Planning Commission, as at one time during my investigation, I found there were four members on the Coimnission from Ward 1. Lawrence Muggli of Muggli Mfg. Co., 5973 3rd Street NoE.: I am pretty well in line with Mr. Schmedeke's line of thinking. I have been in business before many of you fellows came here. When we started in business, there was nothing but prairie. I do not think our part of the City has been con- sidered as the other parts of the City have been considered when there is any public service dished out. We not only lost the service road along the highway, they put the service road in where there was only private residences and then put the access so that we cannot go directly to the highway any more. I go further to say that we demand it. I think we have been kicked around enough in our part of the City. Nothing was ever done down in that area. Frank Gabrelcik, 5923 3rd Street N.E.: I have put in about 2,000 miles going around because of no access. I therefore demand a service road. Mr. Frank Barker, 5800 3rd Street N.E.: We have no way to get out at all. We are entitled to a service road and it is about time we get one. We pay high taxes and don't get nothing. We are entitled to a service road as well as anyone else. I demand it, too. William A. Zawislak, 2630 Grand St. N,E. (5800 3rd St. N.E.): I have a 120' width lot and am paying for an easement. I have paid taxes the last �/1 five or six years. I think we should have a service road. Max Hapka, 281 57th Place N.E.: (To Mr. Schmedeke) Did you plan where the access road would be? We do not want through traffic if it would take paxt of our garage. Mr. Schmedeke: The street would go down to 57th and take a dog leg. Mr. Hapka felt the street going South should be moved over to 2� Street and should be a one way street. - Mr. Schmedeke said the Fire Marshall claims a road should go through there for fire purposes. If we go up to 22 Str.eet, it would be through the middle. Arthur Young, 5807 3rd Street N.E.: If you go out as he proposed, you cannot get out to the highway. You cannot make a turn there. Mrs. Harlow Kinney, 5841 22 St. N.E.: We can walk to Holiday. What we want is some access to the highway without having to go back up to 61st or Main Street. � . Member Jensen asked the people that if they had an entrance from the neighborhood to Univexsity Avenue, Southbound only, did they feel that is better than a half way measure or sti1L very inadequate. The people �r� said 'bery inadequate, and Fridley has no one way street and why give us one". Mrs. Frank Gabrelcik, 5923 3rd Street N.E. There are 30 children in just one block that you have to dodge on 3rd Street. Give us a service road on the west side of University Avenue. Planning Commission Meeting - Ma.y 11, 1967 � Page 4 Mr. Hapka asked why is it proposed to 57th Place, why not to 57th Avenue? �1 Mr. Schmedeke replied that I would be glad to bring it down to 57th Avenue, but I•was afraid it would cost too muc:i. Fridley has a half way street and Holiday proposed to go through with a street from 57th to 57� . Avenue and it would not have cost us anything. One of the Erickson brothers passed away before the proposal came up. It is possible that we might be able to get this much from them again if we decide on it. Mr. Young said one lady brought up the fact that the kids should not be on the streets. They have their property on their own land for their bicycles, but no sidewalks, so they have to take the road and their driveways are not good enough to drive on and the parks.are too far away. So you can't blame it on the kids. � Mx. Muggli asked the Coimt►ission for some of the answers they must have come up witfi. Chairman Hughes said the plans which have been discussed here tonight have been discussed and considered in the beginning. Neither this group or any subcommittee has come to a conclusion which they feel is ade- quate to solve the problem. There are a number of solutions, but each of them have sufficient drawbacks as well as advantages, but none have a clear choice. It is our aim to have streets run where they will be used and have them serve where they will not only be useful but safe. Mr. Muggli said there was no problem which way to go, but whose toes will be stepped on. Take 3rd Street and run it through until it runs into a street that crosses University. � Member Erickson said this matter for the Planning Commission came up last year with Mr. Zizak. We asked for a cul de sac in this area to work out the problem. Subsequently, action came in for delay so that they could � continue this service road. There was an awful lot of opposition from the people in this area because they did not want all the traffic in this area. Mr. Zizak said he did not have that property any longer and he'd like to know now why this thing dragged out. I have been working with the City for five years, he said, for the vacation of 57� Avenue between 3rd Street and 22 Street. I do not see why 3rd Street cannot go right through. �ery- thing is talked about a lot, but nothing is accomglished. MOTION by Erickson, seconded by Myhra, that it appears to the Planning Commission the people in the area now seem to be for the extension of 3rd Street, and that the Planning Commission believe they can proceed on that basis, and would move to close this hearing. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Chairman Hughes stated that we have had unanimity. Is there anyone present who opposes a North-South action. Mr. Hapka said we oppose it if it goes through our house. A citizen said if our children can't play in the street, I don't want �1 it. They can leave it closed up. � Mr. Bodin, 5824 3rd Street and Mr. Martin Dykhoff, 5810 3rd Street said they go along with Hapka. a �1 Planning Commission Meeting - Mav 11. 1967 Page 5; A young boy said the boys couldn't play ball in their yards because the yards are too close. Mrs. Hapka said he was opposed for the reason that if it would go straight through, it would be hard on the children. Chairman Hughes said it would be unfair to allow a meeting to close without allowing both sides to speak. At the moment, he felt we have additional information concerning the feelings of the people in the area which will help us. We are still lacking some things in relation of the streets to the rest of the City. It is the purpose of this Commission to be respon- ! sive to the Citizens in a particular area, but also it is the purpose to be responsive to the needs of the City as a whole. Any deliberation will be taking into account both of these responsi- bilities which will be a safe and useful access to the area for the peopie who live there and do business there. I believe that we have probably heard all of the opinions that are expressed here this evening. Thank you for coming and we do appreciate your interest, as it is our purpose to determine your feelings on the problem. 2. DISCUSSION: PROPERTY BEING THE NE4 OF THE NE� OF SECTION 13, CARL HIPP: Present with Mr. Hipp was Robert McCready, 552 lOth Avenue N.W., New Brighton and Mr. Roman Panek, 510 13th Avenue N.W., �ew Brighton. � Mr. Hipp said that when he purchased the property it was zoned commer- cial but that disappeared. He was told that in 1955, the City was officially - zoned and the change could have happened then. Mr. Hipp said they would like the opinion of the Planning Commission on the type of zoning they should ask for and they felt if there would be too much opposition, it would not be feasible for them to develop the land. Chairman Hughes said that 1) rezoning of the area would ma.ke it useful for multiple dwellings and 2) platting of the area in lots suitable in size. Membex Erickson stated he was going to withdraw from participating in this item because of a personal interest. Mr. Hipp was informed that if he undertakes to use this land for a motel type of purpose, it would be necessary to rezone to one of several types of zoning. Planned Development District offers an opportunity to develop a large tract of land in a manner which would get across the more formal zoning category and the City asks appxoval of the plan before the construction takes place. � It was noted that in the last 12 or 2 yeaxs on rezonings from R-1 to multiple, we have not used R-3 only R-3A. �� Chairman Hughes stated the Planning Commission was not ready to offer a definite opinion. Before coming to a decision, there is the possibility � that there is going to be some type of watershed development in tYiat area which could affect his decision, and there might be some major watershed development concerning the whole Rice Creek area. . � Planning Co�nission Meeting - May 11, 1967 Page � Member Myhra asked Mr. Hipp if he were thinking in terms of recreation for the South part of the land by the Creek. Mr. Hipp said they hadn't �, decided whether it would be private or public. Member Erickson said to Mr. Hipp that he should be sure to have all the property owners involved on the application and also have them sign the request. Mr. Hipp asked for rez�ning application. 3. DEDICATION OF ARTHUR STREET WITH REFERENCE TO GARDNER'S PLAT (P.S. ��66-01): Mr. S. E. Templin was present and stated the preliminary plat had been approved with an exception of a dedication for road purposes, and now he has the dedication and hopes to be able to go ahead with the plat. Referring to that part of the agreement which states if tihe City desires to move the present buildings within the projected right of way during the next five years, they will be moved at the City's expense, after that at the petitioners'. . Member Erickson said the cost of moving, the house could be exorbitant in five years. The xate of growth we have seen in other parts of Fridley, from all expectations, they were very slim, and then suddenly the whole area was built up. He felt three years would be more practical. MOTION by Erickson, seconded by Myhra, that the Planning Coimnission � recommends approval of the proposed subdivision of Gardner's Plat (P.S. #66-01) subject to the following: Lots 7 thru 18 be platted as Outlot 1, and the receipt of an agreement from the fee owners (Ernest Gardner and Willard Gardner) acceptable to the City that when the City wishes to improve the street and remove the buildings prior to July 1, 1970 onto property to S.E. corner of Arthur Street and Mississippi Street, that it will do so at its own expenseo It is further understood that the property in the Southeast corner of Arthur Street and Mississippi Street be made part of the proposed subdivision and be given a lot number. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, with the exception of Member Jensen'who abstained in the matter because of an interest in the plat by Suburban Engineering Company, Inc., the motion carried unanimously. 4. REZONING REQUEST: ZOA ��67-07, REES, THOMSON SCROGGINS INC.: Part of , Lots 17 and 18, Auditor's Subdivision ��78. Mr. Scroggins, Jr. and Mr. M. Fil.ister were present. Mr. Scroggins explained his company are the agents for Franklin Manu- facturing Company, a subsidiary of Studebaker. They were under the impres- sion the entire property was rezoned for multiple purposes, but there is a strip of land between R-3 and the River which is zoned R-l. The land inunediately to the North is zoned R-3 directly through to the river. Stude- baker wishes to sell the land but it is hard to plan as long as part o£ it is useless as far as R-1 is concerned and makes it kind of awkward zoning �.� � as is, and requests a public hearing for the next meeting. Planning Commission Meetin� Mav 11, 1967 Pa�e 7 MOTiON by �rickson, seconded by Myhra, that the Planning Commission � schedule a public hearing for the rezoning application (ZOA ��67-07), Rees, Thomson, Seroggins, Inc., part of Lots 17 and 18, Auditor's Subdivision �k78 to be rezoned from R-1 to R-2 on June 8, 1967 at 8:00 o'clock. Upon a • voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 5. REORGANIZATYON OF ZONING ORDINANCE: Meeting with City Attorney and a dis- cussion of zoning for veterinary clinics. Virgil Herrick, City Attorney, explained the two sections of the Pro- posed Zoning Code, which he had prepared to the Planning Commission. A short discussion ensued. It was agreed to continue this study at the May 25, 1967 meeting and the City Attorney would mail Sections 3 and 4 if they were finished before the meeting. Regarding the veterinary clinics, the City Attorney told the Commis- sion the questions to be answered are what classification you want the clinics under, determine where it should be and then permit it on Special Use Permit. In this way, each proposal can be reviewed individually. 6. FUTURE LOCATION OF PUBLIC WORKS GARAGE AND YARD�: Ma.yor Kirkham, Councilman-at-large Harris and Councilman Samuelson were present for this item. Councilman Samuelson explained that the present tenancy is unsuitable � for the public works garage and yard and the Council was concerned with the location. Chairman Hughes said the Planning Commission, in the dis- cussions we have had so far, no one location has come out as the unanimous choice. (There were six appraa.sals to consider). The discussion centered around the land being purchased for an Ice Arena. Councilman Harris stated he had a meeting with the County and if the Planning Commission wished, he would discuss puxchasing the back part of the property with them. The first indication regarding the amount of land the Ice Arena would need was ten acres, but since then, discussions with people who have been involved in constructions of that sort, suggest the acreage should be at least fifteen acres. Member Erickson said if the City could take ten acres, it would be adequate to provide our own buffer. The strip could be landscaped and the activities of the public works screened. Other comments were: what are the restrictions the City is going to put on itself regarding: abutting areas wliere a certain amount of good looks is desirable, the builcling has to be architecturally nice, landscaped, an 8' chain length fence around the yard and then put redwood strips for total scxeening, provide security, trees and shrubs, and be- lieve it would be a distinct advantage both to the County and the City, because the Arena would be open about eleven months a year. r.r� Councilma.n Harris said, if the Planning Commission wished, that he would approach the County and report back to the Commission. MOTION by Erickson, seconded by Jensen, that the Planning Commission ask Councilman Harris to approach the County on the possibility of the City acquiring the back portion of Parcel 6600 (Ice Arena) of at least five to ten acxes to be used for the City Garage. Upon a voice vote, all voting � aye, the motion carried unanimously. . Planni.n� Commission Meeting - May 11, 1967 " Pa�e 7. VICE CHAIRMAN• �� MOTION by Jensen that Oliver R. Erickson be appointed vice chaixman. Chairman Hughes said if there were no dissenting voices, Mr. Erickson was elected vice chairman by acclaim. ADJOURNMENT• There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:25 P.M. � - i�� Respectfully�submitted, /�=��'�- .. C�� l�.�c.r—i.-... 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