PL 11/18/1970 - 31075�
_ PLANIVING COra2ISSI0N MEETING NOVEMBER 18, 1970 PAGE 1
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The meeting was called to order by Chairman Erickson at 8:05 P.M.
ROLL CALL •
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Others Present:
Minish, Harris, Erickson, Fitzpatrick, Schmedeke
None
Engineering Assistant Darrel Clark, Councilman Tim Breider,
Councilman Frank Liebl
APPROVE PLANNING CONIl�iISSION MINUTES: NOVEMBER 4, 1970
MOTION by Fitzpa°trick,' s�nded by �cl�nedeke, t�t the Planning Commission
minvtes of November 4, 1970 1� approved. ' Upoh'� vmice vote, a11 voting aye, t1�e
mo ti on carri ed unani mEot�s 1 y.
RECEIVE PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-STREETS & U`PILITI�$��$4�COirAI12'TEE MINUTES • NOV 4, 1970
MOTION by Schmedeke, seconded by Fitzpatrick, that the Planning Commission
receive the minutes of the Plats & Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee
meeting of November 4, 1970. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion
carried unanimously.
RECEIVE BOARD OF_APPEALS MINUTES: NOVEMBER 10, 1970
MOTION by Minish, seconded by Harris, that the P1anr�ing Commission receive the
minutes of the Board of Appeals meeting of Noverr�ber 10, 1970. Upon a voice vote,
a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
RECEIVE BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL MINUTES: NOVEIK�ER 5, 1970
1K�OTION by Harris, seconded by Minish, that the Planning Commission receive the
minutes of the Building Standards-Desiqn Control meeting of November 5, 1970. Upon
a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
1. CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: PROPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. �70-04, FIVE SANDS,
BY FIVE SANDS, INC.: Replat of Block 2, Pearson's lst Addition and Parcel
8400.
For the benefit of two concerned property owners in the audience, a brief
revtew was given by the Chairman of the request for the proposed plat and Mr.
Fudali explained the map showing each lot colored separately. He explained that
Lincoln Street is a public road which will be improved by the City in the spring.
Outlot B, which runs into Lincoln Street, wi11 be built and maintained by the
developer. '
Chairman Erickson asked for an explanation of the statement made by Mr. Fudali
,,� at the last meeting inferring he was one of the original owners. Mr. Fudali said
the property was owned by S. G. Pearson. There were five men, N. Craig Johnson,
PlanninQ Commission Meetin� - November 18, 1970 Page 2
William Dolan, George Halvorson, Clarence Lowe and Paul Roberts who called them-
r�� selves "Committee of Five". He was first introduced to the project when litiga-
tion was pending. The man who was supposed to handle the finances resigned when
they ran into difficulties. At the present time, he and Ken Nordling are partners
in the venture, and they have Gus Welter (architect who built Chippewa Park in
Brooklyn Center) as the architect. Mr. Fudali was never initially involved as an
owner in the Five Sands, Inc. What he said was that at one time he was associated
with Dolan and N. Craig Johnson, and when they came to him, he bought out the
interest of one of the men which meant he became associated with the other four.
He had never been before the Planning Commission or Council in regard to the re-
quests of the Co�ittee of Five, and did not receive material pertaining to the
requests until the Council rezoned the property to R-3A.
There was a short discussion regarding the fact that some of the lots are less
than the required area for 59 units.
Mr. Fudali was asked by Mr. Harris if l�e were aware of "some of the determina-
tion taken at the time of the rezoning". Mr. Fudali felt, as far as he was con-
cerned now, the issue in the case was whether or not the land was properly rezoned,
and he did establish it in his mind that it was.
Mr. Harris referred to the Council meeting of October 6, 1969 approving the
building permits for the first two buildings as presented b,y Five Sands, Inc.
The question was asked by the City if they were going to apply for a registered
land survey or plat. Mr. Johnson said the land was torrens title, the deed was
clear, and the mortgage company was satisfied with the metes and bounds descrip-
n tion as it was under one ownership.
- Mr. Fudali said that Mr. Johnson was unable to construct the buildings in
October, 1969. Up until the time that he became an okmer, they were going to try
to build five buildings at the same time. However, they were unable to build even
two apartments. It would be difficult for him to answer what was said at that
meeting regarding platting and the mortgage company being satisfied with metes
and bounds descriptions. He and Ken Nordling now feel that in order to simplify
parcel description and to receive separate tax statements on each of the parcels,
they would like the area platted as requested.
Although this situation is a typical condition for a registered land survey,
they would still have to get approval from the Planning Commiasion and Council.
Mr. Harris then referred to the Council meeting of July 21, 1969 which men-
tioned that the City should acquire 12 feet along East River Road for a future
turning lane. Mr. Fudali said they have given a deed to the City for a turn 1ane,
dedicating a 12 foot lane on East River Road.
In regard to Lincoln Street, which intersecta 79th Avenue, Mr. Fudali explained
they have petitioned to have it constructed -- the bids being let in the fall and
the street to be built in the spring. Outlot B will be a private road in the com-
plex and will be maintained by the complex in the winter and the summer. If
Lincoln Street had been vacated, the complex would have lost one half of it to the
commercial property, and they did not wish to bring commercial any closer to their
property.
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 18, 1970 Pa,�e 3
The City Attorney said that one of the zoning stipulations was there would
,.,� be no access on 79th Avenue and that Lincoln Street was to be used for access.
� The proposed plat was then exaauLned and discussed relative to easements, ingress
and egress. Mr. Juster continued saying if the project would be maintained under
one ownership, the Planning Commission would have a much better control of keeping
things as they are than if you ended up with different ownerships.
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The Engineering Assistant said he computed the land area. As he understood
it, the first building site, which is now under construction, would be Lot 1,
Outlot A and B, and as f 3r as area requirements are concerned, it would be big
enbugh for a 54.3 unit apartment, Dut the number of units now under construction
is 59. The second building could contain 62.4 units. Using a combination of
Lot 3, Outlot C and Lot 4 would be large enough for 44.7 units; Lot 5 equals 52.0
units; Lot 6 is 49.0 units; Lot 7 equals 10.7 units. To bring tfie total area
requirements up to what was approved by the Council, one must include tfie 50 foot
right of way of East River Road and is equal in land area to 22 units. Tfiis 50
foot easement was included in the overall figure of 17 acres. Tfie reason tFie
petitioner included it w�as beca�se it wa� given as an �asement and not a dedication.
The figures of the County and City Assessors also iaclude the 50 feet as an ease�
ment, so there is a question �*hether or not it couid be used as land area for the
total complex.
Mr. gttdsli was asked if he would be prepared to change the plans to conform
with the City Code. Mr. Fudali answered they would like to keep tfie buildings
looking alike. He did not quite understand about the square footage. If at
all possible, he believed that what they could do would be to ask for a variance
if they needed a variance. If they could not do that, they could change the
architectural design on one of the last buildings by eliminating some of the
units. Mr. Erickson felt the problem really starts out with the very first
building.
Mr. Harris said that Lot 7 bothers him. It was his understanding that FHA
will not mortgage a piece of property that does not have public access. Cfiairman
Erickson said that they prob ably could satisfy FHA by granting a private road
easement.
Mr. Fudali gave the following explanation. An instrument has been given to
the City Attorney which provides Lot 7 with an easement in favor of all the rest
of the property for recreational purposes and provides that each one of these
buildings has the right to use Lot 7 for recreational purposes. In this way,
Lot 7 becomes an integral part of the complex. The recreational agreement was
modeled after one Pemtom drew. Lot 7 would not be mortgaged by FHA as they do
not permit any mortgage financing for pools or recreational buildings. It will be
mortgaged conventional which requirements are for access to a public street, but
not public access. They have created access to a public street by easement. They
also require that there be enough money coming in to meet mortgage payments.
There is an agreement whereby the rest of the property agrees to pay to Lot 7 a
sum of money each month. This sounds subtle, but it is the best way to do it in
order for all of the apartments to use the recreational building.
Mr. Welter is the general contractor and has no financi.al ir•terest in the cor-
poration, and he is building it for Five Sands, Inc. Mr. Fudali and Iien Nordling
have been friends for ten years, but this is the first large project they have
� had together.
Plannin� Co�ission Meeting - November 18, 1970 Page 4
�..,, Mr. Fudali continued that he would like five separate tax atatements because
� he may have five separate mortgage companies. FHA requires a reserve for taxes
and replacements. The bookkeeping would be kept separate in order to find out if
one building is not doing as well as another and would be easier to spot.
Mr. Harris asked about Outlot C. Mro Fudali said there is an easement over
Outlot C which picks up an easement going West to Lincoln Street. Rather than
deacribe it by metes and bounds, they chose to describe it as Outlot C.
Referring to the turn around on 79th Avenue and the railroad tracks, Darrel
Clark said the City would like to get a crossing at the railroad tracks. If it
is impossible to get a crossing, then the turn around will be put in.
Speaking of the ditch that runs adjacent to the property on the South side,
Mr. Harris asked if they were contemplating improvements.
Mr. Fudali answered t�at he �ad di�cussed �i�� eh� City �n�ineer the under-
ground storm sewer they were bufiding which would ��pty into the ditch. Also
they had talked to t�e fellow from the Ptrol �dmpany cs�o c�ts the land to the South.
They had a conversation about"doing sd�nething with the�wahole creek area and the
possibility of giving easements for �.dditional recre�t�onal area. It was just
preliminary conversation.
Mr. Harris questioned the advisability of having the storm water drain into
the creek because there is a problem at the present time. The Engineering
,,., Assistant said this will get worse as more streets and parking lots are put in.
� The culvert underneath the railroad tracks is not adequate.
Answering the question of what is going to be built on Outlot A, Mr. Fudali
said it is part of the mortgage for Lot 1 and Outlot B, and other than land-
acaping, they are not going to build anything.
The Engineering Assistant, speaking to Mr. Fudali, said that the City Engineer
and he would like to know if there was any possibility of Outlot A being combined
with Lot l, Block 1, Pearson's lst Addition which is a commercial piece of property
on the corner of East River Road and 79th Avenue. They were going to ask the
commercial ownera for an easement in the Northwest corner of this lot. The
City would like to put in a turn lane and in order to do that, they would have
to get some property �rom the owners. If they could get that corner, then make
a trade for Outlot A with you. Mr. Fudali anawered that at the present, he could
not think of any major problems, but would like to see what Outlot A looks like .
aftei the project is built. They might be able to do something with the Outlot as
far as landscaping is concerned. He would hesitate, wondering what the commercial
lot would do with Outlot A, as it would be getting too close to the complex.
Mr. Minish asked if the reasonlfor requesting a plat is basically to aimplify
the original description. Mr. Fudali said they thought they could accomplish
everything they expected to in the way of shorteninq ttie description, and record-
ing easements with the exception of separate taxes.
Chairman Erickson said it was his understanding the County has been filing
� metes and bounds descriptions.
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Plannin� Commission Meetin� - November 18, 1970 Pa�e 5
Answering Mr. Harris' question about the bottom half of the property owned
,� by Pearsons, Mr. Fudali said that they have a contract for deed. He met with
James Pearson and Leonard Samuelson and showed them the plat. They will sign
the plat if it is,approved. The plans are that on March 1, 1971, they will be
paid in full. The Engineering Assistant volunteered that a copy of the contract
is in the City file.
Mr. Schmedeke asked the City Attorney if the City had any legal objections
to the request for a plat. Mr. Juster replied that he did not anticipate any
legal problems with the easements and plat as such. If it is platted, it is
much easier to build on Lots 1 and 2. They could stop building and sell off
Lots 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. If the project were one unit, it would be more difficult
to sell.
MOTION by Minish, seconded by Fitzpatrick, that the Planning Commission close
the public hearing of the proposed preliminary p1at, P.S. #70-04, Five Sands, by
Five Sands, Inc., being a replat of Block 2, Pearson's Zst Addition and Parcel
8400. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimousZy.
The question asked by Mr. Fitzpatrick was if the Planning Conunission approved
this plat, knowing the intent and number of urzits, what was the implication?
Chairman Erickson replied that if the Commission approves the plat, they allow
the petitioner to go ahead with the project in violation of the ordinance.
Mr. Fitzpatrick continued that if approving the plat, which is simply the
^ division of the land, what check would the City have on the petitioner? Mr.
Juster answered that if the plat is approved, he did not think it meant they
. approved the units for the balance of the area. Before Mr. Fudali could build
on Lot 3, he would have to come in for a waiver. The Planning Commission would
not actually affect the two buildings coming up, but from naw on, a new problem
would be created. If he came in for a waiver and the Planning Commission felt
he was carrying on the initial concept, it could be granted. Mr. Juster did not
think the plat itself would be material either way.
Chairman Erickson said that Lots 3, 4 and 7 combined are still short of land.
He continued that the Planning Commission has to keep in mind the purpose and the
basic understanding the City has regarding this request. He felt the Commission
pretty well agreed this was proposed as one project and had every intention com-
pleting it that way. It appears the buildings could be built and mortgages filed
and the project comple�ed without a plat. It was his own opinion it should be left
until the project is far enough along to determine if it is going to be finished.
He felt the petitioner still had not explained to him why they are requesting a
plat. The only purpose he can see for platting is to split the taxes and that
could be accomplished between mortgage companies. Because of the background of
this property and opposition to roads by neighboring property owners, the project
should be completed as originally presented to the City.
Mr. Minish said he was somewhat of the same mind, that everything can be
accomplished as stated by the Chairman.
Mr. Schmedeke said an important factor to him was that if the owner of the
� South part of the proposed plat, thought it would not be developed, he was certain
` he would be here this evening. It seems to prove to him that the party who owns
` the South part feels the project ia going to be completed. We should face the
Planning Commi�sion Meetin� - November 18, 1970 Pa�e 6
fact that the land is either going to be developed by the Five Sands, Imc. or the
owner would eventually develop it himself.
Chairman Erickson said he did not question the intent of the petitioner. How-
ever, he did not see why it should be the burden of the City to aee this project
through. The complex could be built first and then the platting can be accomplished
for taxes. Mr. Schmedeke wondered if it were not the tight money market that is
a factor in platting now. Chairman Erickson said he did not believe that seemed
to be the problem.
Frank Liebl, Councilman, stated when the Georgetown Courts complex was rezoned,
the buildings were sold while they were being built and Council accepted the
overall plan from Maurice Filister and then later on, after he completed a few,
Mr. Filister came in and asked for a registered land survey. It was not until he
completed the complex that he split them up and they are individually owned by
individual mortgage companies. They were platted after they began building. There
were no problems in regard to the requirements of land, but Mr. Filister came
befor� the Council and had a Registered Land Survey approved.
Chairman Erickson said he would not say he would object to the plat after the
project is developed. .
Mr. Minish said that plans do not always develop the way they are presented.
MOTION by Harris, seconded by Minish, that the Planning Commission recommend
denial of the proposed preliminary plat, P.S. #70-04, Five 5ands, by Five Sands,
Incorporated, being a repZat of Block 2, Pearson's lst Addition and Parcel 8400,
�� as it was presented for the following reasons:
1. The lots are too small for 59 unit buildings as proposed.
2. The crea tion of Zots without public access.
3. If platted now, the City wi11 Iose what control it has over the project.
g. This was not part of the oriqinal plan when presented for rezoning
and building concept approval in 1969.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
2. REZONING REQUEST: ZOA 4�70-06, SID BADER: Lot 4, Auditor's Subdivision 4�108,
to rezone from R-1 to R-3 -- the South 301 feet.
The Engineering Assistant explained this request was brought before the Plan-
ning Co�nission earlier this spring by Mr. Pritchard who is no longer interested
and now resides out of state. Mr. Zwicki, the property owner, is being repre-
sented by Mr. Sid Bader.
MOTION by Minish, seconded by Schmedeke, that the Planning Commission set the
public hearing date of December 9, 1970 for the rezoning request, ZOA #70-05, Sid
Bader, of the South 301 feet of Lot 4, Auditor's 5ubdivision #108, to be rezoned
from R-1 to R-3. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
3. REQUEST FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT: SP 4i70-12, ALVIN A. 1�TTITSCIIIZE: Outlot 1, Rice
Creek Plaza South, Lot 32, Block 4, Lowell Addition to Fridley Park together
with the vacated street between before mentioned parcels.
�� MOTION by Fitzpatrick, seconded by Minish, that the Planning Committion con-
firm the public hearing date of December 9, 1970 for the request for a Special
Use Permit, SP �70-12, Alvin A. Nitschke, to construCt a two family dwelling in
Planninp} Co�ission Meetin� - November 18, 1970 Page 7
an R-1 District� on Outlot 1�, Rice Creek Plaza South, Lot 32, BZock 4, Lowe1Z
Addition to Fzidley Park together with the vacated street between the before
�fi�' mentioned parcels. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried
unanimously.
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Darrel Clark sai.d that this would not be a regular double bung�lar�� but glnere
would be two floors and the living area for each apartment would consist of two
floorse �
ADJOURNMENT :
There being no further business, Chairman Erickson adjourned the meeting at
9:50 P.M.
Re,�pectf.ully submitted
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$az� 0'Br�an
Recording Secretary
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