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PL 03/03/1971 - 31096�� PLANNING CONIl�SSION MEETING MARCH 3, 1971 PAGE 1 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Erickson at 8:00 P.M. ROLL CALI.: Members Present: Minish, rlembers Absent: None Others Present: Darrel 7.eglen, Erickson, Fitzpatrick, Schmedeke Clark, Engineering Assistant APPROVE PLANNING CO]�A4ISSION MINUTES: FEBRUARY 17, 1971 Mr. Fitzpatrick called attention to the motion on Page 6 pertaining to the approval of the rezoning and special use permit requests by Colonial Services, Inc. and stated the intent of the Planning Commission would be stated correc�ly if, in the next to the last line of the motion, the words '°until that time" are deleted -- service bays are not to be allowed. MOTION by Minish, seconded by Fitzpatrick, that the Planning Commission Minutes of February 17, 1971 be approved with the following correction: "---that the second reading of the ordinance be held up until the plans are approved and the service bays not be allowed" as stated above. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTESc FEBRUApY 18, 19%1: MOTION by Zeqlen, seconded by Schmedeke, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Building Standards-Design Control Subcommittee meeting of February 18, 1971. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE BOARD OF APPEALS MINUTES: FEBRUARY 23, 1971 MOTION by Minish, seconded by Zeglen, that the Planning Co�rm�.ission receive the minutes of the Board of Appeals meeting of February 23, Z971. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Chairman Erickson asked that the Order of Agenda be changed as he wished to absent himself during the discussion of Item 1, taking the items in the following order: Items 5, 6, 2, 3, 4, 7 and 1. 1. SET PUBLIC HEARING DATE: Proposed preliminary plat, P.S. �71-01, by Keith Harstad being part of Lot 7, Auditor�s Subdivision �22 (Rice Creek Road and Stinson Boulevard and approximately 1'� acres). ^ 2. SET PUBLIC HEARING DATE: The American Oil Company by John P. Young- � da1e, petitions for rezoning and special uae permit for all that part of the NF3� of the N[,�� of Section 11 that lies East of the centerline of University Avenue and No�Cth of the centerline of Osborne Road as said roads are now laid out and constructed (1960). Plannir�g C�mmission Meetin� - March 3� 1971 Page 2 �'"`` MUTIUN by Zeglen, seconded hy Minish, that the Planning Commission set a public hearing date of April 7, 1971 for consideration of a Preliminary Plat, P.S. #71-01, by Keith Harstad, being part of Lot 7, Auditor's Sub- di vision #22 and a request for rezoning, ZOA #71-C�3 and a Special Use Permit, SF 1i71-03 to rezone from R-3 to C-2 to permit a SPrvice station, `or part of the NE�� of the NW� of Section 11 by the American Oi1 Co. ilnon a voice vote, alI voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 3. REVIEW AND FORMULATION OF POLICY REGARDING FUTURE DEVELOPMENT OF GAS STATIONS• Chairman Erickson explained that this item was brought up as a recommenda- tion from the City Engineer for study of future service station sites, and to question whether or not we need additional service stations in.this com- munity. Darrel Clark said the City Engineer would be present for the March 17th meeting. MOTION by Fitzpatri ck, seconded by Zeglen, that the Planninq Commission table the i tem ,�f Review and Fo1•mulation of Policy Rec�arding Future Develop- ment of Gas Stations to the March Z7, 1971 meeting. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 4. CONSIDERATION OF CITY ZOIVING ORDINANCE TO REQUIRE A DOUBLE GARAGE FOR A SINGLE FA*4ILY DWELLING AND A FOUR STALL GARAGE FOR. A TWO FAMILY DWELZING: � Chairman Erickson stated this item was in answer to a letter written to the City regarding the ordinance on garages. A copy of the letter was in- cluded in the agenda. He continued, that he felt strongly about this, and he would like the Planning Commission to study the ordinance and come back pn March 17, 1971 with their own thoughts. He felt that items concerning build- ing codes and zoning in this community should be brought before the Planning Commission. In his opinion, any changes in zoning or building should not be made without a public hearing to give the people an opportunity to express their thoughts. MOTION by Schmedeke, seconded by Fitzpatrick, that the Planning Commission table the item Considera tion of City Zoning Ordinance to Require Double Garages for Single Family Dwellings and Four Stall Garages for Two Family Dwellings until the March 17, 1971 meeti.ng. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 5. ADOPTION OF 1970 UNIFORM BUILDING CODE AND THF AMENDMENTS THEREOF: 6. Regarding this item, Chairman Erickson said he also expressed interest that the City consider adoption of the 1970 Uniform Building Code. In this regard, he wrote to Council e�cpressing his interest to have a hearing before the Planning Co�ission and any other interested parties of the City with regard to the adoption of this Code and they be given an opportunity to express their opinions. He asked that the meeting be advertised in the Sun Newspaper and by ^ letter to any interested Body. Plannin� Commission Meetin� - March 3, 1971 Page 3 � Mr. Minish wondered if it would be possible to send notices to contractors who have done business in the City in the past year. He added that the Commnis- sion would be interested in the thoughts and comments of the people in the trade. The Commission decided to have notices of the March 17th meeting sent to City general contractors, carpenter union and masonry union. MOTION by Minish, seconded b� 2eglen, that the PZanning Commission table to March 17, 1971 the item Adoption of the 1970 Uniform Building Code and notify the Sun Newspaper of the pubZic hearing, in addition to sending notices to general contractors, the carpenters' union and the masonry union and any other Body that might be interested. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Chairman Erickson turned the Chair over to Mr. Fitzpatrick. 7. CONTINUED REZONING REQUEST, ZOA ��'70-07, RICHLAND, INC. BY R.C. ERNST: South 395 feet of Lots 1, 2 and 3, Lot 4, except that part of West 132 feet lying South of North 328.9 feet, Lots 5 and 6, except South 23 feet, Auditor's Subdivision ��22. Mr. R. C. Ernst was present and stated there had been a meeting with the neighbors last week. They met in the basement of Mr. and Mrs. David Wieland's home, who, most generously, served doughnuts and coffee during the meeting. � They had a most interesting discussion which led to what he believed would be a solution to the problem. He distributed a sheet summarizing the results of the meeting and explained the four items listed below: 1. No more than every other lot fronting on Arthur Street and Mississippi Street are to be used for two family dwellings. 2. The overflow creek shall be located in the dedicated right of way South of 64th Avenue in line with Arthur Street and in a Westerly direction approximately bisecting the lots fronting on Rice Creek Road. 3. The overflow creek shall be constructed with maximum side slopes of 4to1. 4. The Applicant agrees to construct the retention pond and creek to the project boundary at no cost to the drainage area. The City shall acquire easements and construct the creek between the develop- ment and Central Avenue. He continued, that there was concern for the neighbors on 64th Avenue, Arthur Street and Mississippi Street abutting two family dwellings. Because of this, the decision was made that only every other lot on Arthur and Missis- sippi Streets would be two family dwellings; that there would be no two family dwellings adjacent to each other.. There was also concern for the location of the overflow creek which would drain the retention pond. The people on 64th were concerned about the creek coming through the back of their lots because, some day, 63rd Avenue may go through the center of their lots. �.1 The topo� map showed that presently there is a 33 foot right of way dedicated from 64th Avenue South to Rice Creek Road �here the overflow from the pond � could flow South to rear line of the lots facing Rice Creek Road. This whole area could become the rear lot line of a tier of lots fronting Rice Creek Road, This seem�d �p b� a real gpod so��}t�Q� �or the area. There is still Planning Commias�on Meeti� °- March 3, 1971 � Pa�e 4 �'- the matter of how to cross tihe last two lots adjacent to Central Avenue. There was also quite a lot of concern about the type of construction for the overflow creek. It should be something that would not become a hazard to the children in the neighborhood. It was felt a maximum slope of 4 to 1 would be adequate protection. The maintenance of the creek would consist of cleaning it out. The cost of the retention pond was brought up. The petitioners would pay for the construction of the pond and overflow and total internal costs oi the development, but beyond that, the City would be asked to build. Mr. Ernst was asked if the pond would remain the same size as shown on the map, and he answered that the pond shown on the map consists of about four different ponds. They intend to consolidate the four ponds into one. He believed there would be about 4 acres of water, about 2 acres of land in the park and the rest of the property platted lots. Mr. David Wieland commented, going over the summary of the meeting held in his home presented this evening by Mr. Ernst, they did have a meeting and did discuss Items 1, 2 and 3, but no agreement was made by a vote. The 4th item was not discussed. Mr. Ernst put that in on his own. Referring to Item 1, Mr. Wieland added, in reference to the comment about only every other lot along Arthur Street and Mississippi Street being two f amily dwellings, this would certainly be more acceptable; however, they n still would like to see the land left R-1. The location of the overflow creek was discussed and it would be more acceptable to the people on 64th if it were shifted to the South so that he and the other people along 64th Avenue could, if 63rd Avenue were put in, split their parcels in half. In fact, he stated he already had started oa l�use plans for his netv fiome. He faondered if owners along Rice Creek Road had been consulted about tfiis new location. Item 4 on the sheet was not discussed. � � Darrel Clark answered that those people within 300 f eet of the rezoning request were notified of the zoning hearing. Mr. Ernst added that, referring to the creek, about half the proper[y fronting Rice Creek.Road is tax delinquent property owned by the State. This would be a good time to acquire easements. Darrel Clark said that generally speaking, the storm sewer is a problem whether this land is developed single or two family dwellings. sewer Mr. Wieland said if a storm^was going to be put in in a temporary fashion, there should be a time table so that the ditch would not be there indefin�itely. Even if it were a shallow slope, the people would not want it forever. Mr. Robert Erickaon felt a temporary measure was not the answer. �y waiting to put in a permanent storm sewer, the cost would be more than i�t would be now. The temporary situation was not desirable. He regretted the Chairman was not at the table, but felt the Commission should be able to act, and if the members present felt they could not make a decision, they should reject the whole thing. Acting Chairman Fitzpatrick explained that there is a drainage problem Plannin� Commission Meetin� - March 3, 1971 Pa�e 5 �- of the land which is not too much affected by which way this property would be developed. The problem is already here. The matter before the Commission is to hear a rezoning request on the whole parcel. The Engineering Assistant said the City has had two public hearings on a storm sewer for this area already. Both times the people did not want it and Council did not order it in. Mr. Eyler felt the problem should be taken care of in the right way, or there could be a real problem in the future. Mr. Robert Erickson still objected to the absent Chairman saying the people here this evening have seen Mr. Erickson step down. The people do not know what is going on behind these doors. Mr. Zeglen explained that, because the Cha3rman had a personal interest in the request, he stepped down. This was not an unusual procedure in any Commission or Council. There are five members appointed to the Planning Com- mission and there are no alternate members appointed. Three is a quorum and there are four members here now. Mr. Oliver Erickson addressed the audience. He said that he did not know who the gentleman (Mr. Robert Erickson) was or his interest in this particular area. He would take objection to the insinuation that the Commission could not effectively act without the regular chairman. The Commission would �, function just as strong and independently as if they were five members. Mr. Robert Erickson suggested something going on behind the scene -- this is untrue. The Com�nission felt that this was a problem area and he had a personal interest in the area. The petitioners thought their plans were a reasonable solution to the area. There is no indecision by the Planning Commission -- the delay was requested by the petitioners. Mr. Robert Erickson said that he didn't say the Commission was running short, but was minus a member. He still thought this Commission would be better off appointing an impartial source acting to work with the Engineering Department and the Planning Commission to come up with a satisfactory proposal. A citizen who lived near the corner of Fridley and Mississippi Streets asked where the drainage pond would be fsom Mississippi and how would the water get from Fridley Street to the pond, His land was about 6 inches above the water table. Darrel Clark answered that it would go through a conduit. He then asked about the cleaning of the ditch and who would pay for that? Darrel Clark said it would probably have to be done every three or four years at City expense. Mr. Wieland asked if the 4 to 1 slope would be all the way down to Central Avenue from Arthur Street? Darrel Clark answered a 4 to 1 slope is fairly ateep but not steep enough for one to fall down. � Mr. Wieland asked how long would a temporary ditch be allowed to remaia n since none of theae costs would be absorbed by the people living in the area? Acting Chairman Fitzpatrick stated that the Planning Commission is only a recommending body to the Council and he could not say at this time if any mention of the drainage would be in the motion. Plan�ing Coa�mission Meetin� - March 3, 1971 Page 6 Mr. Wieland then asked for the exact location of the storm drain. The Engineering Assistant explained that, at the rezoning level, recom- mendations can be made but stipulations are put on by the Council. Before the ditch is actually constructed, there would probably be an improvement hearing and at that time, there is an actual preliminary study and decision made on cost and location of the improvements. Mr. Schmedeke said he would have to disagree with Mr. Robert Erickson on the Acting Chairman Fitzpatrick not being qualified or a good one. If he weren't qualified, he would not be appointed by Council. If he weren't a good fellow, he wouldn't have reopened the hearing to give the people another chance to express their feelings. Nothing is being accomplished by arguing or hassling. In the past there were not enough people in favor of the storm sewer plan by the City and now there are not enough people in favor of it so the petitioner asked for an open ditch. Mr. Robert Erickson accused the Plan- ning Commission of dragging their feet and wasting time. Mr. Schmedeke asked him if he knew where the 0'Bannon �roperty was. He said the Comntission worked a year with the people in this area to get a good plan. They did not hustle them or j�n something doum their throats, so this request could take longer than just tonight. He expected, because Mr. Ernst had met with the people, a complete plat would be presented. He did not know if what was presented this evening was a complete plan. He was still wondering where the creek would go and who would pay for it. Another thing, Mr. Schmedeke said, the City is getting the opportunity to get a lot of fill from the railroad comp any � for free. If this were true, it may be what some of the homes in this area could use for their backyards. Mr. Eyler said he had already put on his lot twelve loads of fill which includes seven loads of black dirt at $15.00 a load, and he didn't need any more. Mr. Schmedeke continued that he was hoping to suggest that the Commission take a look at this land when the snow and ice were gone. He said he also knew of another rezoning that took five years. Some of these problems are not solved quickly. It was no use getting mad and condemning each other. A creek could be quite something nice to look at. He did not know how long water would be in the ditch, but he had seen some creeks that were very attractive. Mr. DeMars said the area is low ground and the water just sets there. There is only a flow of water in the spring when there is a runoff or heavy downpour. Mr. Ernst was asked why he requested rezoning to R-2. He answered that if single family homes were to be constructed on the property, the petitioners would be unable to pay for the ponding and ditching. It was a matter of financing. A citizen rose and said he signed the petition against the rezoning and n is still against it. Darrel Olson commented that regarding every other lot on Arthur and Mississippi Streets being a two family dwelling, he would rather not change the zoning at all. There were too many questions reg��d�ng sewer left unanswered. As far as the ��Qnin$, he d3.dn't feel anything would..be accomplished. He Plannin� Commisri.on Meeting -- Piarch 3, 1171 ]'age- 7 ---r.�-•-_.-- �� was definitely against it. A citizen said that he believed at the meeting in Mr. Wieland's home Mr. Ernst proposed everv other lot would be a two family home if the land were zoned R-2. No person came out and actually wanted the R-2 zoning. He wanted to know if it went R-2 against the wishes of the people, would the real estate people go along with every other lot? , Mr. Robert Erickson asked if it wouldn't be better to appoint a committee to work with Mro Ernst. Problems have been brought out but no solutions. Acting Chairman Fitzpatrick said that was the whole idea of the public hearing -- to get all problems aired. It seemed the real problem at the hearing was the storm sewer and perhaps the time had come for another hearing on that. In answer to Mr. Minish's question why it was not feasible to have single family lots on Arthur Street, Mr. Ernst said that two f amily dwelling lots are worth more and the petitioner must recover as much as he can to pay for the cost of the retention pond as that is very expensive. They.felt it was a good compromise for a storm sewer. About 50% of the lots would be developed R-2 and the balance single family. A typical lot would be 75'x135'. The Engineering Assistant roughly described the area which would be served by the storm sewer as Rice Creek on the North, Old Gravel Pit on the i� South, Central Avenue on the West and not quite to Stinson Boulevard on the East. Mr. Schmedeke eaid he expected more agreement with the people. He believed more thought should have been given to developing the land with R-1 on the outside of the area and the center to be R-2. There are still plenty of objec- tions, and he wondered if the request should be continued. Mr. Zeglen asked if the Planning Commission could legally tell the petitioner where, or where not, to put R-�. Actiag e•f+A{ n*+ �'itzpatrick said he believed Council could require a buffer around the outside of the area, but his understanding was the Planning Commission's decision should consider just the rezoning. Mr. Minish said he was in favor of the project having all single family dwellings along Arthur Street and Mississippi Street. fle felt it might be desirable to have this request referred back to Mr. Ernat. The cost of the retention pond would have to be recovered by the developer and could be under rezoning to R-2. He was favorable towards rezoning to a certain extent. The question of a drainage ditch was sep arate from the rezoning and injected an unnecessary controversial isaue. Mr. Ernst said the next step would be to develop a preliminary plat which they would have to bring in for approval. He stated he would appreciate the Planning Commiasion voting on the rezoning request this evening. Mr. Minish added that the motion should probably include putting an out- side limit that one half of the lots be two family dwellings and the Council could act on where the particular lots might be specif�.ed. Planning Commission Meeti.n� � March 3, 1971 Page 8 The Engineering Assistant brought up the fact that perhaps half of the lots would be very desirable and half might be less buildable. In what order could the lots be developed so that the desirable lots would not go first for the two faa►ily dwellings? MGTION by Minish, seconded by Zeglen, that the Planning Commission recom- mend tf�e rezoning request, ZOA #70-07, Richland, Incorporated by R. C. Ernst for the South 395 feet of Lots 1, 2 and 3, Lot 4, except that part of the West 132 teet Iying South of the North 328.9 feet, Lots 5 and 6, except the South 23 feet, of Auditor's Subdivision #22 be rezoned from R-1 (single family dwellings) to R-2 (two fainily dwellings) be approved with the condition that a11 of the lots facing Arthur Street and M.ississippi Street be sinqle fam.ily dwellings, and at a maximum, only one half of the lots in the entire area be permitted for two family dwellings. The overflow creek sha.Zl be Iocated in the dedicated right of way South of 64th Avenue from Arthur Street and in a Westerly direction approximately bisecting the Iots fronting on Rice Creek Road to Central Avenue. The overflow creek sha11 be constructed with maximum side slopes of 4 to 1. The applicant agrees to construct the retention pond and creek to the project boundary at no cost to the drainage area. The City sha11 acquire easements and construct the creek between the development and Central Avenue. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried vnanimously. As a further recou�mendation, Mr. Minish stated that it would be desirable to consider a permanent storm sewer for this area, as one of the most explosive � issues discussed was the matter of drainage in this area. There is recogni- tion on the part of most of the people that a storm sewer is essential and appropriate to consider at this time. ADJOURNMENT : MOTION by Minish, seconded by Zeglen, that the Planning Commission meeting of March 3, 197I be adjourned at 10:00 P.M. Upon a voice vote, a1I voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Respectfully submitted �- ,-o . .� �.. LG C l' �� G C4�--�. 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