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PL 02/23/1972 - 30344� . ,�1 3 PLANNING CO1�TMiSSION MEETING CITY OF FRIDLEY r�BRU�xY zs, i97a PAGE 1 The meeting.was called to order at 8:00 P.M. by Chairman Erickson. ROLL CALLt Members Present: Members �bbsent: Others Present: � Minish, Zeglen, Erickson, Schmedeke, Fitzpatrick None Darrel Clark, Engineering Assistant Nasim M. Qureshi, City Engineer-Director of Planning Peter J. Aerlofsky, Planning Assistant APPROVE PLANNING COP'Il�ZISSION MINUTES: FEBRUARY 9, 1972 MOTION by Schmedeke, seconded by Fitzpatrick, that the Planning Commission minutes of February 9, Z97'2 be approved. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the mation carried unanimously. RECEIVE BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES, FEBRUARY I0, 1972 MOTION by Zeglen, seconded b� Fitzpatrick, that the Planning Commission receive the Building Standards-Design Control �ubcommittee minutes of Februar� 10, 1972. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE PLATS & 5�1BDIVISIONS-STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOrIlti1ITTEE MINUTES: FEBRIIARY 9, 1972 MOTION by Schmedeke, seconded by Zeglen fhat the PZanning Cornmzssion receive the PZats & Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee rainutes of February 9, I972. Upon a voace vote, a1I voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE BOARD OF �iPPEALS MINU'�ES: FEBRUARY 15, 1972 MOTION by Schmedelce, seconded by .Zeglen,.that the PZanning Commission receive the Board of Appeals minutes of February 15,�1972: Upon a voice vote, aZ.I voting aye,. the motion carried unanimousl�. 1. VISITOR: �NALD 1+�ITTELSTADT, 3RD WARD COUNCILDIAN: DISCUSSION OF PROCEDURE . FOR SUBCOMl�dITTEE MINUTES RELATING TO COUNCIL AND.PLANNING COMMISSIODI: Councilman A�ittelstadt said he was here to address the Planning Commi.ssion regarding the letter dated January 24, 1972 writfien by the City Manager, as directed by Council, describing their relationship with the various subcommittees that reparted to the Commission and their general feeling about current operations. He asked if they would �aish this tyge o£ involvement to continue as it is now or change it as he �aouid su�gest no�a. Flannin� Commission Meeting _ February 23, 1972 Page 2 _ Se said that the Planning Commission was a very important unit in the City of Fridley. He has been a member of several Subcommittees and also the Planning �` Commission and he felt the research work of Chese committees is necessary.to conduct City Business. The City Council relies exclusively on the Planning Com- mission for the physical aspects of the City, and there are political involve- ments that concern Council decision. His proposal was that all of the Subcom- mittees under the Planning Commission report their minutes to the Planning Com- � mission. This is the purpose for having the chairman of the Subcommittees a member of the Planning Commission. When you receive the minutes of the Subcom- . mittee, review and check and take action. If you do not agree with the recom- mendations as passed, you turn it over to the chairman of the subcommittee and he has the responsibility to return_it back to the Subcommittee for reconsidera- . tion. Councilman Mittelstadt continued that the petitioner should be informed that someti�mes these requests take quite a bit of time when public hearings are involved and they should allow for that and not expect to be taken care of within a few days. He said he proposes that the Commission thoroughly review thG Subcommittee minutes, and that the Planning Commission recommendation should be given top priority by the Council. If it takes a resolution to accom- plish this change, it can be done. He said he knew the Council would go along with him with this proposal and they will have a much better relationship between the City Council and the Planning Commission. Chairman Erickson stated the Commission did discuss this. He di� nat think the Commission would want to delay a decision on a request, and if they �...� did agree to his proposal, they would have to change some of the Subcommittee and Planning Commission meeting schedules. �� . Mr. Schmedeke said that the Chairman's suggestion made sense to him. It seems time is the element that all petitioners shout about. His recommendation would be, if the system did change, a representative from each of the Commis- sions and the City Department representative meet with the Planning Commission. Then the responsibility for any error would directly fall on the individual. It is the time element to be considered as the members of the commissions and subcommittees are not paid. Chairman Erickson said that his understanding of Councilman Mittelstadt's proposal is that the Subcommittee minutes be acted on and approved by the Planning Commission. In the past they have"merely been rec�ived with Council acting on the request. � � � " � � There followed a_discussion by the members and the councilman of the proce- dure used cahen those members served on the Subcommittees. Mr. Qureshi explained how, in th.e case of the Board of Appeals, the original set up was that the Board made the recommendations and the Council made the final decision. Then in 1966, the Council, in trying to shorten the procedure, gave the Board of Appeals the final say, with right of appeal of the denial to the City Council. I.ater on Cc�uncil was not satisfied with this arrangement because of decisions by the Board and Che Council reverted back to the original set up. Chairman Erickson said the Subcommittee should make sure the City staff � has had time to go oveY the agenda items. The Commission would like to know P lanning Co�nission Meeting - February 23, 1972 Page 3 ._ what Council wants. flow much of the decisions does the Council want. He knows what Mr. Mittelstadt wants, but if it is the feeling of the Council that they � want the Planning Commission to take over the subcommittee, maybe the whola subcommittee should be made members of the Planning Commission. . Mr. Fitzpatrick said Che example that more time could have been us�d • � It may occur once out of 100 times, happen too often... � they mentioned earlier was one request and that is the tin shed on Main Street. but he would not want that kind of thing to Councilman �Li.ttelstadt said that the Planning Commission should be the planning body of the City because his point was that the Council does not necessarily have the expertise for all the varied requests. With the recom- mendation from the Commissions, the Council could act with confidence. If we chose this method, the Council would be in a position where it woulcl rely almost totally on the recommendations of the Planning Commission. The fallacy that the general public has of a City Councilman, that once he is elected, he is all seeing and all knowing. Councilmen.should take great pains in the selectian of the Committeemen so that they would be qualified to render good.recommenda- tions to the Council. Therefore Council would be a policy making body. _ Chairman Erickson said that if they were going to have a Bu3lding Standards Committee that really are going to be experienced, then those members should be appointed from the profession itself, but the next thing is to get a qualified man who will say "yes" and serve. , M�mber.Minish arrived. Councilman Mittlestadt said.he was not changing the ordinance. fle was not saying the Planning Commission would have the final decision, ho:�ever, their recommendation would be considered top priori�y. . Mr. Qureshi said on the Design Control Committee work, the basic outline is _ _-------- - . _ _ - -- --- - ------ - _already set up in the zoning ordinance. and the building code as to how much the � ----- - ---- ---- - -- ---- - -- — _ _ _.. _ -- --- - -- -- - -- _ _ - -- _ --- - - City can require _the petitioner_ to do as far as�b-u3lding�is--con.cerned.- Chairman Erickson asked if the plan is for the proposal to come to the Planning Coffinission before the Council? Did Mr. Mittelstadt think that would prevent unfortunate decisions. �ouncilman Mittelstadt said the requests wciuld have t0 go through the same action as the Planning Commission, to agree ar to 3isagree. They would rely almost thoroughly on the Planning Commission. The only thing that would change the recommendation would be a political involvment or political aspect. He had the majority of the Council members agreeing with thP proposal. Chairman Erickson said the Planning Commission would do anything the Council wants. Councilman Mittelstad said he would like ta get the feeling of the Planning Commission and then he would go to the Council. �I . P�laxrnirrg Commission Meet3ng - February 23, 1972 Page 4 Chairman �rfckson said'the Commission doesn't do a lot of.planning for the City such as sidewalks. If it could be shown the suggested pxoposal does not � delay the peti:ti.aner, he would have no objections. The Subcommittee and the Planning Couunission found that the Council has, at times, ignored their recom- mendations. Mr. Minish said he would like to see the Planning Commission have authority to make the final decision of granting permits for variances. If the Planning Commission gave a�negative decision, the next high court would be the Council. Chairman Erickson asked Mr. Qureshi if, to his knowledge., the pub.lic ev�r influenced the Council as to the,issuance of a building permit or issuance of variances. Mr. Qureshi said there have been discussions regarding bufters, la�dscaping, etc. Chairman Erickson said he felt that type of thing could be done at another level. Mr. Qureshi said there is a public hearing before the Board of Appeals and then goes to the Council. Chairma.n Erickson said that if the Planning Commission were to act on variances, the Council has to giva that authority or release that control if the Planning Commission is to be upgraded as a decision making body. Mr. Fitzpatr�tck added that there is also the point that,�besides some necessary changes in legalities, there would also be some in the method of practices. Chairman.Erickson asked that the Planning Commission be given more time to studp the comments made this evening. . ^ . Councilman Mittelstadt thanked Che members fo� taking up their time. � 2. RE�'ERENCE TO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 9�972 BY MErIBER - SCHMEDEKE : Mr. Schmedeke called attention to Pages 8, 9 an�d 10 of the February 9th minutes which referred to lots under C-1 and C-2 districts whose area did not meet the requirements of the ordinance and therefore were unbuildable lots. � Upon further checking, he found it was not the Planning Commission that definitely reco�nanded the lot area or lot width. The Commission has already run into three situations where they cannot live with in our present zoning ordinance. The last request the Planning Commission received, even with Changing the zoning from C-1 to C-2, the land could not be utilizec� under that zoning. Adjoining this-property are three more parcels of the same size that are too small for the present ordinance. To be certain that this situation does not continue, he proposed to make an amendment to Ordinance No. 459. He proposed that the lot area be 20,000 square feet, and the width 160 feet. Mr. Schmedeke said he thought it was a logical request and proper. �ven with these changes, variances will be requested. Chairman Erickson said that first of all, he was happy to hear Mr. Schmedeke say that the Planning Commission didn't ma�e the decision regarding the area requirements in Ordinance No. 459. Those figures were for a special area and did help the problem in triat area. %'1 . � Planning.Commissian Meeting�- �ebruarv 23, 1972 Fage 5 The Chairman asked him how the.change in the area requirements would affect the groperty zoned C-1 and C-2. • '� Mr. Schmedeke answered that there would still be variances. He found out - that 25,000 square feet was quite expensive to buy because of assessments. He was asked if anyone tried to develop the area around him under C-l. . ` Mr. Schmedeke said that.he thought it would.help that situation. The house to the.North of his property has 20,000 square feet. With the change in the ordinance, that area could develop commercial. Mr. Minish said that then there would be no need for a Special Use Permit. 'The following changes were suggested: Square footage, front footage, Special . Use Permit (some of.the Uses in C-2 be permitted in C-1 under Special Use �'���� " Permit),�and add or subtract any Uses they wish. The City Engineer stated that Fridley has a very limited amount of property left in the C-1 areas. The Special Use Permit has the degree of control you may want to use and it,the permit9may be temporary. The Chai�man suggested this item be t�bled until the nex� regular meeting and have the staff and members of the Cou►mission come up with their suggestions at that time. Darrel Clark said that the footage requirements Eldon proposed they could .probably agree with, but he wondered if they should not wait until the Commission �...� . get.s further into the study of the Comprehensive Plan. The Chairman stated the Planning Commission table the item of changing the C-1 and C-2 land area requirements by Ordinance until the next regular meeting. 0 �1 4. APPROVE PLANNING COMrII SSION MINUTES: FEBRUARY 16 �1972 MOTION by Fitzpatrick, seconded bg Minish, that the Planning Commission minutes of February 16, 1972 be approved. Upon a voice vote, a.i1 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. The Secretary left the meeting at 9:30 P.M. . . . . 5. CONTINUED: STUDY: PROPOSED COMPREHENSIVE MUNICIP'hL DEVELOPMENT PLA.N: The PZanning Comnission continued their study of the Proposed Comprehensive . Municipal Development Plan. The next study meeting is March 22, 1972. ADJOURrTMEI�TT : There being no further business, Chairman Erickson adjourned the meeting at 12:00 F.M. � Respectfully submitted � .' f , � -/ �� . -•-; ._-iJ �, ,� C �_ .� -L-c�c-,_-� Recording Secretary