PL 10/17/1973 - 303840
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEE'I'ING OCTOBER 17, 1973
CALL TO ORDER:
PAGE 1
Chairman Fitzpatrick called the mee�ting to order at 8:00 P.M,
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Fitzpatrick, Drigans, Lindblad, Harris
Memb�rs Absento Blair
Others Present: Darrel Clark, Community Development Admo
Jerrold Boardman, Planning �ssistant
APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION TZINUTES: SEPTEMBER 26, 1973
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning
Commission appzove the minutes of the 3eptember 26, 197'3 meeting
as written. Upon a vo.ice vote, aZl voting aye, the motion carried
unanimousZy.
APPROVE PLANI�TING COMMISSION MINUTES:_ OCTOBER 3, 1973
Mr. Lindblad said a couple of statements he made were left
out of the minutes. He said his statement that when it comes to
funding special City projects, such as the trail system, the City
should try �to fund it, and not request �uriding from the Federal,
State, or County government; because he feels that for every dollar
the City receives this way, the ci�izens pay more than the City
receives back in taxes. He also said he wanted a statement in
the.minutes that he was opposed to the trail system, especially �
on residential streets, because limiting the parking to one side
of the street could cause a hardship.
MOTION by Harris, seconded by Driqans, that the P.Zanning
Commission approve the minutes of the October 3, 1973 meeting
as correeted. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion
carried unanimous.Zy.
RECEIVE PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 24, 1973
MOTION by Lindblad, seconded by Narris, that the P1ar.ning
Commission receive the minutes of t�he Parks & Rec'reation Commission
meetinq of September 24, 1973. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimously,
� RECEIVE BOARD OF APPEALS MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 25, 1973
'`'-' MOTION by Driqans, seconded by Lindb.Zad, that the PZanning
Commission receive the minutes of the Board of Appeals of September
25, 1973. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,.the motion carried
unanimousZy.
Planning Commission Meeting - October 17, 1973 Page 2
RECEIVE BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES:
�"`� SEPTEMBER 27, 1973
MOTION by Lindblad; seconded by Harris, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes of the BUild.fng Standards-Design
Control Subcommi'ttee meeting of September 27, 1973. Upon a voice
vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
l. PUBLIC HEARING: A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #�73-10
BY TRYGVE OLSEN: per Fridley City Code, Section 45.051, 2, A,
to allow construction of a second accessory building, a shed
to be used for the storage of tools, on Lot 4, Block l, River-
wood Manor Addi�tion, the same being 7145 Riverview Terrace N.E.
Mre Trygve Olsen was present to present his request.
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning
Commission waive the reading of the Public Hearing notice on the
request for a Special Use Permit, SP #73-10, by Trygve 01sen. Upon
a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimousZy.
Mr. Clark gave the plans submi-cted by Mr. O.lsen to the
Tnspection Department to the Planning Comnlission to look a� so
they could see what type of building Mr. Olsen wanted to build.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Olsen how�. he intended to use this
� building. Mr. Olsen said it was for storage of lawn equipment,
�- a boat, and a saw.
Mr. Harris asked if this building would have electricity and
heat. Mr. Olsen said i.t wauld have electr•icity, but would not be heated
Mr. Fitzpatrick asked what iche first �iccessory building was.
Mr. Clark said it was the attached garage.
Mr. Lindblad asked if this building would have a cement floor.
Mr. Olsen said it would and it wouldn't have the pillars as shown
on the plan. Mr, Drigans asked Mro Clark if this cement slab would
have to have footings for this size building. Mr. Clark said a
floating slab was approved by the State Code.
Mr. Clark said there were notices sent to the neighbors and
the City hadn't received any calls about this. He asked Mr. Olsen
if he had talked to any of his neighbors about this request. Mr.
Olsen said there wasn't any opposition from the.neighbors.
Mr. Harris asked about the exterior of the building. Mr. Olsen
said it woulc� be rough cedar. His home is stucco with rough cedar
trim. Mr. Harris said this building will blend in then.
Mr. Lindblad asked Mr. Olsen if he was going to cor�struct this
�� 'building himself. Mr. Olsen said he was.
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Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Olsen if he had a wood working hobby. Mr.
Olsen said he did. Mr. Harris said he hoped Mr. Olsen was not going
to operate a cabinet shop or similar business'from this building. Mr.
Planning Commission Meeting - October'17, 1973 � Page 3
Olsen said this building was not going to be used for any kind
�`� of business.
Mr. Drigans said he noted on the survey that there was a
fence on part of the lot. Mr. Olsen said that fence belonged
to his neighbor who has a swimming pool. Mr. Drigans said there
was no fence between the school property and Mr. Olsen's. Mr.
Olsen said �he children were always supervised when they played
close to his property.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said he thought this building might be an
at�raction for children because of it's placement on the lot, but
if the children were always supervised �his evidently would be no
problemo
Mr. Harris asked i_f there were any drainage problems on this
lot. Mr. Clark said there wasn't. �
MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning
Commission close the Public Hearing on the request for a Special
Use Permit, SP #73-10, by Trygve OZsen. Upon a voice vote, a11
� �• voting aye, the motion carried unanimous2y.
Mr. Harris said he had no objection to this request. It
was a nice looking building. He said he though� a stipula�ion
�,..` should be made that there wot�ld be no business operated from this
structuree
, MOTION by Lindblad, seconded by Drigans, that the Planning
Commission recommerd to the Council approval of the request for
a Special Use Permit, SP #73-Z0, by Trygve OZsen, per Fridley
City Code, Section 45.05Z, 2, A, to a11ow construction of a second
accessory building, a shed to be used for the storage of tools,
on Lat 4, B1ock 1, Riverwood Manor Addition, the same being 7145
�Riverview Terrace N.E., with the stipulation that no business be
. operated from this structure. Upon a voice vote, a1Z voting aye,
the motion carried unanimously.
2. CONTINUED: REVIEW OF CREEK AND RTVER PRESERVATION MANAGEMENT
ORDINANCE
Mr. Jerrold Boardman made the presentation.
Mr. Boardman said tahe main purpose of this ordinance was to
.meet the State �equirement to have a flood management program. This
is required�of all cities that have had any type of flooding. The
Department of Natural Resources hasn't gatten around to the cities
that haven't set these up, but they will.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said he thought this legislation was passed
^ in 1971.
`� Mr. Boardman said we designated the areas that were inundated
by floods according to the Army Corp. of Engineer's report. The
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 17, 1973 Pa e 4
level of flood control that they used was the 100 year flood level.
We have laid out the 100 year flood level on the City map in red
and blue..
There were two ways we could have gone in setting up this
program. We could have had it all in one zone and then we would
have to use the mos� r�strictive regula�ions which wouldn't have
allowed any building at all except for same low damage potential
buildings that would not be inhabitedo Otherwise we could set it
up in two different districts, as we have done. One district
is the flood plain, shown in red which is CRP-2, where you can
have buildings for habitation if they are protected to a certain
elevation, or if they build above a certain elevation. The other
district is the flood way, which is shown in blue and is CRP-1 in
which you can't do any building at all for habitationo �
The Department of Natural Resources says �c�u can build in
a flooa way if what you build does no� rais� the flood level more
than one half foot. This is limited to park shelters, etc., and
structures that are not used for occupancy and have low potential
damage.
A:�°. Fitzpatrick asked about Rice Creeko Mr. Boardman said it
was a matter of convenience or zaning this flood waym It does not
affect the existing home sites alang the Creek, Mro Fitzpatrick
asked abaut the small area of red along the Creek. Mr. Boardman
said this was because there was presently a home in this area, and
the Depar�.ment of Natural Resources said the elevations could possibly
be raised to over .5 feet without affecting the flood damage
upstream because of Locke Park. Mr. Drigans said this special
house aZong Rice Creek is very close to the Creek. Is any action
taken by adoption of this ordinance going to preclude him from
selling his house. He also wondered if the homeowner would get
the value out of this house or qualify for a loan. Mr. Boardman�
said it could affect the value of his property, bu-t with the proper
flood management program and the purchase of flood insurance, the
F.H.A. is supposed to mortgage homes in the flood plain area.
Mr. Harris asked about the Riverview Heights area. Mr. Boardman
said they would have to get a special use permit and any constructian
would have to be according to the restrictions set by the Department
of Natural Resourcese
Mr. Fi�zpatrick asked what would happen if someone had to
rebuild in this area. Mr. Boardman said it would be like any other
non-conforming use. If it was over 50% damaged or they wanted �o make
any additions or alterations, they would have to build according
to these specifications.
Mr. Lindblad asked how the 100 year flood level was determined.
� Ntr. Boardman said they gather all the information in a watershed
,� �area and determine what the maximum capacity of this watershed is
if all conditions happen at one time. They feed this information
into a computer to determine the frequency and level of the maximum
flood�and from ihis they can break it down to the level of a 100
� year f lood .
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Planning Commission Meeting - October 17, 1973 Page 5
Mr. Clark said this ordinance has been sent to the State and
they have said they will accept it.
Mr. Boardman said this ordinance was modeled somewhat from the
ordinance Edina has. He also studied St.�Louis Park's ordinance.
The State xegulations were also incorporated.
Mr. Lindblad asked if there were plans or a program to discourage
building in the areas designated in red, and utilize the land for
parks, for instance, if they were needed in the area.
Mr. Boardman said i� 'the red areas wer� filled up to 2 foot
above �he 100 year flood level, this would be buildable land.
Mr. Clark said that if the Sta�ce came in and set up the rules
for this type of area, they would be more restrictivee
Mr. Boardman said any variance from the regulatcions would also
have to be approved by the Department of Natural Resourceso
Mr. Drigans asked that where it states that these variances
or special use permits must j�e approved by all govening bodies,
which are the Department of Natural Resources, the Rice Creek
Watershed and the C,_ty, what would happen if there was a conflict.
Two governing bodies could agree and one disagreee Mr. Boardman
said the City would have the final authority.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said if the City granted a variance, this would
be reviewed by �he Department of Natural Resources.
Mr. Boardman said the way the ordinance reads is that 10 days from
the time a request is received for a�ariance, this is to be sent to
the Department of Natural Resources.
Mr. Drigans said if someone wants �to build in this area with a
variance and they get approval from the State, but not the Council,
what happens? Mr. Boardman said they cannot build then. The City
has the final approval.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said he anticipated that there would be a lot
of questions at the Public Hearing on the resale of homes in the
flood plain and how they would be financed.
Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Boardman to explain the difference in
the two districts.
Mr. Boardman said the CRP-1 was the most restrictive. It permits
anly uses having a low flood damage potential. The structures are
not for human habitatian, are firmly anchored to prevent floatation,
and allows any accessory building that is not more than 150 square
feet. Al1 permitted structures in this zane, except for public uses,
require a special use permit. Structures for public use require
approval of the Council and all governing bodies.
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Planning Commission M�eting - October 17, 1973 Page 6
Mr. Boardman said these districts are only overlay districts.
Maybe only part of a lot falls into these districts. �The part of
the lot that is not in �he district can be built upon according
to the regular zoning regulationso He said that we need to locate
the lines in the field and draw a profile. The elevations have to
be shown a� each point where there was �looding and this has to
be shown specifically on the zoning map.
Chairman Fitzpa�rick said then this is actually double zoning
in the areas affected by flood. .
Mr. Harris asked if someone lived along the river and wanted
to put in a dock, what the restrictions would be. Mr. Boardman said
this would be a permitted use, but it would have to be firmly anchored.
Mr. Clark said this would require a Special Use Permite
Mr. Harris asked if property along a waterway had
problem when the ice went ou�, and it could be repaired
would this require a Special Use Permit? Mr. Boardman
fill re�uires a Special Use Permit, but whe�her repair
lo� to the same elevation as,it was before, or whether
to new construction, should be checked out.
an erosion
with fill,
said any
to bring the
this relates
Mr. Langen�eld, Chairman of the Environmental Quality Control
�-- Commission, asked if over a period of �ears, due to erosion, the
� flood level could change and how would this be handled. Mr. Boardman
said any change in the �lood level can be handled by Council amending
the profile.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said �hat when Fridley sets up this type of
ordinance, much of the debris is going to come from the North of
Fridley. Mr. B.oardman said that every community that borders on a
Creek or River will have to set up controls.
Mr. Harris asked abou� trees a.long a waterway. These are not
included.in this ordinance.. What if someone removed the trees from
the bank. Mro Boardman said you wouldn't be encreasing the flood
pc.tential. Mr. Harris said if the trees were removed, through erosion,
the bank could change. Mr. Boardman said this could cause a faster
flow and there could be more of an erosion problem. There are erosion
control measures. Mr. Harris said he thought there should be something
in this ordinance about preserving existing conditions in the CRP-1
district.
Mr. Boardman said we have dis�rict uses for buildings, and the
ordinance says that vegetation must be protected during new con-
struc�ion or any alterations or additions. We have nothing that
pertains to existing property.
^ Chairman Fitzpatrick said he thought the Commission would be
� prepared to answer any questions on the ordinance, but not on
financing homes for resale. He asked if there would be anyone
in authority on this who could be present at the Public Hearing.
Mr. Boardman said he could check with the F.H.A. but they have
said they would finance homes that are covered in a management
Planning Commission Meeting - October 17, 1973 Page 7
i�r program and have flood insurance. Mr. Fitzpatrick said at the
present time, it is difficult to get financing even in a very
desirable location, so he could see where people would be concerned
about_financing in this area. Mr. Clark said this ordinance will
allow them to protect their investment with flood insurance.
Mr. Drigans asked if there were homes in the red and blue
areas. Mr. Boardman said there were a lot of homes in the red area.
This area can be filled. The blue areas only cover portions of lots,
and the structures are out of the flood way, except the one lot .
shown in the flood plain in red, along Rice Creek. �
Mre Lindblad asked what happened if one of these homes were
damaged less than 500. Mr. Boardman said it could be rebuilt to
-the way it was before the damage, but any alterations or additions
would require a Special Use Permito
Mr. Langenfeld said he �hought the ordiance was misnamed when
it was called Creek & River Preservation Management. He didn't
see there was much protection for the environment. Mr. Boardman
said it does pertain to fill and land «lteration. Mr. Fitzpatrick
said there could also be damage �o the river, if structures were
torn out by a flood and went in the river. Mr. Clark said the
reason this was not called a flood ordiance was because there was
�.,,1 a lot of resistance to the conotation of the name. We tried to
come up with a name that did not have 'flood° in it. Mr. Fitzpatrick
said tha� whe� the Planning Commission had hearings on flood insurance,
which would be very beneficial to the area, people were still afraid
of the implications of having their proper.ty put in a"flood area".
Mr. Lindblad asked Mr. Boardman if theoredically they could
elimate the red area with fill? Mr. Boardman said they could if
in final review by the Department af Natural Resources the flood
plain area as se�t up by the City•is acceptable.
Mr. Drigans said that people will come to the Public Hearing
and want 'co know how this ordinance is going to affect them. Chairman
Fitzpatrick said he though� there should be someone present at the
hearings that can answer these questions.
Mr. Harris asked what happened when there was a flood and there
were wash-outs on property that needed immediate action. Mr. Clark
said that if it was him, he would fill, and ask questions later, but
this point could be checked on also. ,
Mr. Drigans said there was re�erence to the.zoning administrator.
Who would be the zoning administrator? Mr. Clark said it would be
the City Engineer.
� . Mr. Drigans asked why variances to this ordinance wauld be
heard by the Planning Commission rather than the Board of Appeals.
�' Mr. Clark said it was because the request for a Special Use Permit
and a variance would most generally come together, and because any
variances fram this ordinance would be very complicated variances.
Mr. Boardman said any request for a variance�has to be sent to the
Commissioner and the Department of Natural Resources 10 days prior
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Planning Commission Meeting ° October 17, 1973 Page 8
to the Planning Commission meeting and any approval of a variance
or special� use permit must be sent to them for review.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said we are only reviewing this ordinance
before the Public Hearing. I think one thing that has come out of
this discussion is that we would like as much resource personal
as possible a-� the Public Hearing.
Mr. Lindblad said he though�t everyone should make every effort
to call this the CreeY and River Preservation Management Ordinance
instead of a flood plain ordinance at the Public Hearing.
Mr. Clark saad if any members of the Planning Commission wan�ed
any information or anything that pertains to this ordinance before
the Pub�.ic Hearing to give the staff a call.
3. PRESENTATION BY GENERAL CI-IEESEMAN ON THE ARMORY PROPOSAL
Postponed because of a conflict ofc datesa rescheduled for
November 7, 1973� as stated in memo from Paul Brown dated October
12, 1973.
4. ����USSION ON BUILDING HESGHTS IN OUR ZONING ORDSNANCE
Mro Lindl�lad said he had been at the Council meeting on
�- Octcobei 15th and in �the discussion on the Unity Medical Center
- there was a question on how many stories this building could
� haveo Mr. Clark said that because it was in R-1 zoning, it could
only have three floors. Mr. Fitzpatrick said he thought the
hospital was higher than 35 feet. Mr. Clark said that maybe
with �he basement it was, but it was three iloors in front
of the building.
Mr. Lindblad asked how high a building could be in Fridley.
Mr. Clarks said that in an industrial zone it could be 65 feet.
He said he thought a grain elevator for Minnesota Linseed was
probably about 125 feet but this was built before our present
zoning laws were in effect. Mr. Lindblad questians if there
would ever be any high rises in Fridley with the restriction
of 6 stor�..es on buildings. Mr. Clark said they could go for
a variance for a high rise.
Mr. Harris sai_d he thought the 6 story restriction.was put
on for fire protectione Mr. Clark said the fire department has
a 100 foot ladder now. Mr. Harris said ano�ther consideration
would be that the City water tower was only 145 feet high.
Mr. Lindblad said �he reason he had brought this up was because
he thought the area along the river, Sduth of I.694, was a good
area for high rise offices or apartments. Mr. Clark said it
�'"1 , would be a good area. Mr. Harris said no one has been discouraged
. abou� building this type of high rise.
Planning Commission Meeting - October 17, 1973 Page 9
�� 5: WALL �ORPORATION
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Mro Drigans said that he noted in the "Action Needed" notes of
the City Council meeting of October 15, 1973 that there was a special
meeting being held to determine the feasibility of change of plans
by the Wall Corporation.
Mr. Clark explained some of the changes the Wall Corporation
would like consideredm
In the general discussion that followed, it was fel� that
the Planning Commission and the Board of Appeals had made recommenda-.�_
tions on what was supposed to be the final plan of the Wall Corpor-
tion, and if there were going �o be changes in this plan, they
would like to know what these changes are.
MOTION b� Lindblad, seconded by Harris, that the Planning
Commission request a joint meeting with �he City Council to discuss
the proposed change of plan by the Wa1Z Corporation. Upon a voice
vote, aZ1 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
6. FRIDLEY NEWSLETTER • �
Mr. Lindblad said he was very happy to see the article calling
it to �he homeowners attention that garbage cans on boulevards are
,r"'� prohibited. He �aid it was really an eyesore to go down a street
_' and see garbage cans in the front boulevard of every house.
Mr. Clark said this s�arted in the winter of 1965 when due to
so much snow, the garbage haulers came to the City and said they
were losing money on their pick-ups. The Council gave permission
�FOr that or.e winter for garbage �.cansto be moved close to the street
for pick-upe People got in the habit of this and the practice has
continued, mos�ly because he thinks people thought they were doing
the right thing. He said all garbage containers should be kept out
of view from the s�reet, but if you have non-garbage items for pick-up
these should be put at curb-side.
Mr. Lindblad said he thought this type of article should be
followed up in the newspaper and subsequent newsletters.
Mr. Clark said the S.A.C. charges were in this same newsletter and
also the regulations pertaining to blind intersectionso He said
there were other things like this that can be improved by making
people aware of the ordinances. He said most people will comply
on their own, if the violations are brought to their attention.
Chairman Fitzpatrick adjourned the meeting at 10:15 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
UC/�t z -�%
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Doro-�hy E�i nson, Secretary