PL 11/07/1973 - 31157r�
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 7, 1973 PAGE 1
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairman Fitzpatrick called the meeting to order at 8:05 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Fitzpatrick, Drigans, Lindblad, Harris,
Blair
- Members Absent: None
Others Present: Darrel Clark, Comm�xnity Development Adm. �
Jerrold Boardman,.Planning Assistant
Kirk English, Department of Natural Resources
James Haner, HUD, Federal Government National
Flood Insurance Program
� Paul Brown, Parks & Re�creation Director
APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: OCTOBER 17, 1973
^ MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Blair, that the Planning
Commission approve ihe minutes of the meeting of October 17,
�"y 1973 as wri,tten. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion
carried unanimously.
RECEIVE BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES:
OCTOBER 18, 1973
MOTION by Lindblad, seconded by Harris, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes of the Building Standards-Design
ControZ Subcommittee meeting of October 18, 1973. Upon a voice
vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
RECEIVE BOARD OF APPEALS MINUTES: OCTOBER 9, 1973
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Blair, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes�of the Board of AppeaZs meeting
of October 9, 1973. Upon a voice vote, a1Z voting aye, the
' motion carried unanimously.
RECEIVE BOARD OF APPEALS MINUT�S: OCTOBER 23, 1973
Motion b,y B1air, seconded by Drigans, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes of the Board of Appeals meeting
of October 23, 1973. Upon a voice•vote, a11 voting aye, the
motion carried unanimously.
� .
RECEIVE PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE
MINUTES: OCTOBER 24, 1973
� �'MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes of the Plats & Subdivisions-Str�ets
^,
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 2
& Utilities meeting of October 24, I973. Upon a voice vote,
a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
RECEIVE PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES: OCTOBER 29, 1973
MOTION by Blair, seconded by Drigans, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes of the Parks & Recreation Commission
meeting of October 29, 1973. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimously.
M�`. Drigans requested that a fourth item be placed on the .
agenda. Due to President Nixon's speech this evening (November 7th)
he wanted a discussion of the energy crisis.
1. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A PROPOSED REGISTERED
LAND SURVEY, P.S. #73=08, BY HARLAND BERRY: Described as
- b�ing-180 foot lot extensions into Locke Lake, (part of
Lot�3, Revised, Auditor's Subdivision No. 23) of Lots 2-6,
Block l, Ostman's lst Addition; Lot 4, Ostman's 2nd Addition;
and Tracts A& B, Registered Land Survey No. 20, generally
.located along the West and North shores of Locke Lake�.
Mr. Harland Berry was present.
� MOTION by B1air, seconded by Aarris, that the PZanning
Commission waive the reading of the Public Hearing notice for
''� a proposed Registered Land Survey, P.S. #73-08, by Harland Berry.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
�
Mr. Clark said one of the stipulations of the Pl�ats & Sub-
divisions-Streets & Utilities 5ubcommittee was for the staff to
check with the County to see if the lots that are being platted
in the lake could be combined with the lots on dry land, so
they could be one lot. On a Registered Land Survey, the property
has to be under one ownership so this can't be done, since the
dry land property is owned by numerous people and the lake
bottom by a separate person.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said land should nat be platted with no
access.
Mr. Clark said this was also covered at this same meeting,
in that if the first stipulation wasn't possible, then a legal
document should be drawn up for an agreement that the two parcels
that will be under one ownership, cannot be separated�, without
City approval.
Mr. Harland Berry said that what had ca•used this problem
was that the lake wasn't in at the time those lots were platted.
When the lake was made, some of the property lot lines didn't
reach to the lake shore.
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 �age 3
�� Mr. Harris.said the ownership of the lake bottom was
something of a problem. Mr. Fitzpatrick said there has been
agreement to deed the remaining portion of the lake bottom to
the C�_ty. Mr. Harris said what if, at some future date, and
af�er the City could have ownership of the remaining lake
bottom, it was decided the lake should be dredged. Could
the City dredge the part of the lake bed that was under _priv�te
ownership?
Mr. Clark said the portion below the tressle is where the
largest siltation occurs. Mr. Harris said if. the City does obtain
ownership of the remainir,g lake bottom, there chould be some
type of agreement or easement given by the owners of the lake
bottom to the City�so if an�- work had to be done, the City
would have the right to control the entire lake bed. Mr. Clark
.���d �here can't be any easements shown on a Registered Land
Survey, but probably some other type of agreement could be
worked out. Mr. Berry said there are a lot of covenants covering
this pro�erty at the present time.
. Mr. Clark said he didn't know if the private owners of the
� lake bed would object to the City maintaining the entire lake
bottom. Mr. Clark said the State has control of public waters,
so the private owners couldn't dredge the lake either, without
� :pe����o� from the 5tate.
'"s. Mr. Clark asked Mr. Kirk English, Department of Natural
Resources, for an opinion. Mr. English said that public waters
are defined as any body of water that has a beneficial�public
use. This would be such as recreational use, for use as a flood
basis, use for wild life habitat, etc. Public waters are considered
to be up to the elevation of the natural ordinanary high water mark
and most clearly defined as wherethe aquatic vegetation meets the
terrestrial vegetation. It is also defined a"s being from the
natural high water mark to the natural low water mark, but this
is hard to determine. Chairman Fitzpatrick said the lake bed
in question is a privately owned lake and was man made. Mr.
English said he wasn't that familiar with the determination of
a lake of this type. Mr. Clark gave Mr. English a copy of the
� proposed Registered Land Survey to take with him, and Mr. English
said he would check into this matter and give the information to
Mr. Clark. �
Mr. Harris said if the City was going to have jurisdiction
over the lake bottom, there would have to be some type of agree-
ment reached with the private owners, so that one or more owners
couldn't stop this maintenance.
Mr. Lindblad asked if this could be considered a public lake.
� Mr. Clark said there was public access to the lake.
� .
` Mr. Clark said Mr. Ostman has deeded these extentions to the
property owners, but�because this is torrens property, the Register
o� Title wouldn't accept the deeds until this proposed Registered
. Land Survey is recorded. Mr_. Clark said this R.L.S. will have
8 tracks, A through H, which would then be deeded by Mr. Ostman
�"'1
�,
�f
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 4
�O the eight property owners, and there should be an agreement
with thE: deed that these tracks would not be separated from the
lots on dry land without approval by the City.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said that in the mean time, we are still
platting lots that aren't accessible. Mr. Clark said that he
would think that before the City Council would approve the final
plat, these �:greements would have to be signed. These would have
to be made up by the City Attorney.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Berry at what point Mr. Ostman would
be willing to deed the remainder of the lake to the City. Mr.
Berry said at any time the deed can be drawn up. Mr. Berry said
there wouldn't be ar:y money changing hands except for tax purposes.
Mr. Clark said it would be up to the City Council to make
the decision on whether the City wanted to acquire the remaining
lake hottom. There were pros and cons to this proposal.
Mr. Fitzpatrick asked if the City might be reluctant because
they would be responsible for maintaining the lake level. Mr.
Clark said they already have control of the lake level. There
is the po;a:�iblity that the prope:z�ty owners around the lake could
petition the City to improve the lake with no cost to them, because
this was a public lake. Mr. Clark said that ordinarily the
affected property owners would be assessed for part of the cost,
the same as on a street: If the cost of maintaining this lake
had to come out of the GEneral Fund, then the year that the
lake was impraved, there wouldn't ba mQney left in the General
Fund for much else. -
Mr. Drigans asked about the other lots around the lake.
Clark said most of the other lots go to the edge of the lake.
Mr. Drigans asked what would happen if the shore line changed.
Clark said there wasn't much fluctuation in this lake, because
it is controlled by a dam. Mr. Harris said that if the City
didn't obtain the remainder of the lake bottom, it should own
the part where the dam was locate�.
Mr.
Mr. Drigans asked what would happen if the dam went out and
this kent back to being a creek. Mr. Clark said the property .
would belong to Mr. Ostman and Mr. Scherer. This is one of the
reasons it would be better for the City to have title of the
remaining lake bottom. Mr. Clark said he believed the part of
the lake owned by D. L. Scherer has gone tax forfeit.
Mr .
Mr. L�.ndblad asked why the deeds couldn't be made out for
the property just to the water's edge. Mr. Clark said a Registered
Land Survey is just done on paper ancl is quite inexpensive. To
plat this to the lake shore would require a lot of survey work
and would make: the cost so prohibitive, that it probably wouldn't
be done.
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 5
^ Mr: Frank Nebel, 6961 Hickory Circle, N.E., President of
the Loc�ke Lake Homeowners Association, said he owns 150 feet
of lake bottom w;.th his property. He said the City has designa-
ted this area for snowmobiling. They will be snowmobiling on
this portion of the lake also, and he wondered about his liability.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said this is one of the problems we have
before uc on this plat. If the remaining portion of the lake
bed becomes City property, then this would be a gublic lake,
but how this would affect the private ownership of part of the
lake bottom, is our concern. Mr. Nebel said that part of the ..
lake bottom that he owns is land part of the 'time.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Berry if the City accepted the remainder
of the lake, would there be any objection to giving the City
as easement on the privately owned portion of the lake. Mr.
Berry said, if this was possible, he was sure Mr. Ostman would
sign such an agreement.
Mr. Linblad asked if the City acquired the remaining lake
bottom, if the entire cost would have to be borne by the City for
maintaining it. � �
Mr. Clark said if a Public Hearing was held for the necessary
maintenance of the lake, the property owners benefiting from this
^ maintenance could be assessed for part of the cost. This was done
;_.- when �he Locke Lake dam was repaired.
Mr. Fitzpatrick asked if the administration had any recommenda-
tions on this request. Mr. Clark said it was felt that the owner-
ship of the bottom of Locke Lake should be cleared up. It would
be better for the City to have ownership of the Lake bottom than
to have it stay in private ownership. If the Lake did go down,
the property owners would be fa.ced with having no control of the
property adjacent to their lots. The administration doesn't feel
th�:t this should be maintained from the General Fund.
MOTIGN by Harris, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning
Commission close the Public Hearinq on the propased Registered
Land Survey, P.S. #73-08, by Harland Berry. Upon a voice vote,
a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Harris said as long as the first stipulation of the Plats
& Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee could not be done,
he would not include that in his motion.
MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning
Commission recommend to Council approval of the proposed Registered
Land Survey, P.S. #73-08, by HarZand•Berry, described as being 180
foot long extensions into Locke Lake (Part of Lot 3, 8evised Auditor'
�^, Subdivision No. 23) of Lots 2-6, Block 1, Ostman's First Addition,
Lot 4, Ostman's Second Addition, and Tracts A& B, Registered Land
Survey No. 20, generaZly located along the West and North shores of
Locke Lake, with the following stipuZations:
Plannir,g Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 6
�� (1) A Zegal decument should be filed with the property
that the parcel pairs cannot be separated.
(2) The. City investigate the possiblity of obtaining
a deed to the remaining lake bottom property.
(3) If the City does obtain the remaining lake bottom,
that they investigate the possibility of obtaining
an easemenf or agreement to permit maintenance and
work on the lake bed that is under private ownership.
Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
2. CONTINUED: ARMORY PROPOSAL: PRESENTATION BY GENERAL
CHEESEMAN
W. H. Cheeseman, Deputy Adjutant General of the State
of Minnesota, was present to make the presentation.
General Che.eseman said he was here �� clariEy and to
acquaint the new members of the Planning Commissior��with the
armory proposal for Fridley, and to answer any questions the
Commission might have on this proposal, and what we hope to
�„\ accomplish.
'� General Cheeseman said he was proposing to the Commission
that they consider favorably the establishment of a National
Guard Armory in Fridley. There are various reasons for the
National Guard to desire this. He said 15 villages and cities
have been contacted with this same proposal. At the present
time we have 15 units in one location, the Minneapolis Armory.
We want to move with the times and establish armories in five
locations in the first and se�ond ring suburbs so we can go with
the population. We wish to establish these five armories from
Bloomington to New Brighton, over a five to ten year period.
These five armories will each have one guard unit.
What the National Guard is for those who do not know, is
a military force that is the oldest voluE�tary unit. It was
started 300 years before the Declaration of Independence. In
fact, it is mentioned six times in the Declaration of Independence.
It is an effective means of our democrac� where we depend upon
o,ur citizen soldier for the primary force of our military forces.
The National Guard comprises the primary coinbat organization of the
reserve of the United States Army and Air Force.
Minnesota has approximately 10,000 National Guards in 97
units located in 67 communities. We have had units in Minnesota
since before our State Constitution. So, we are not a new
r"'� ' organization and we will be here long after everyone here is gone.
f
What we are trying to do is program five communities for
a National Guard unit and armory. When we decide and agree on
the City where an armory will be located,•we can then set up
priorities and a program, for various years• Whatever area is
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 7
� decided upon, we will start building up a unit from that area
�^ and the officer personne� would come from that area.
In our first pr.oposal we had a requirement of five acres.
This was not very realistic because not too many communities
have that large an area left and the days of 'squad right and
squad left' are over too, as far as outside drilling. We only
need less than 3 acres to construct oux building, provide parking
for the building and for military vehicles, and provide room
for landscaping.
The armory itself is built by the Minnesota State Armory '
Commission. State laws provide for the building, establishing
the bonds and the retiring of the bonds. It cost approximately
a half million dollars to constru�-tan armory. Of this, the
Federal Government pays 750. Of the remaining costs, the State
pays 40o and the local government pays 600. Any additions to �
the building that could be used by the National.Guard would
be paid for on the same ration between state and local governmento
The type of armories that are being put up at the present time
cost the State and local government about $150,000. At present
the legislature allows us about $4,000 a year. to pa� on the
retirement of bondso
When you do not have a National Guard unit in your City,
^ it is hard to picture this as a civic organizatian. This would
be the Fridley Armory, and it would have various uses for the
" community. It has a regulation size basketball court. There
is an assembly area of 7,000 square feet. There are cooking
facilities. It provi�es a civic building in the City that can
be used by the City�and also can be rented out for var�iousfunctions
by the Chamber of Commerce, the V.F.W. and other such groups.
The State pays for the upkeep and maintenance of the building,
but there are certain charges that have to be made for the rental
of the building. These charges are minimal because we are not�
a profit making organization. Tt costs the State about $8,000
to $12,000 a year to maintain an armory. For civic use, there is
no fee, for such things as a location for voting, a eity meeting,
blood bank, and there is no charge to the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts.
We do have two employees who are in the building every day.
The Guard Unit comes in two days a month. We prefer to have the
building used by the community. �
•Mr. Blair asked General Cheeseman if he had looked into
any locations in Fridley. General Cheeseman said he had looked
at two sites and they were both favorable, but they preferred
the site by the Ice Arena. The Arena could use the armory parking
lot for overflow parking.
General Cheeseman said it would all depend upon the uses the
�� community would like to make of the armory to determine how much
= it will ultimately cost. S�ome communities want a larger armory.
They want room for more recreational facilities, or a youth room.
We do have an area for a firing range. This can be used for the
F�rearm Safety Proqram, and we provide the instructors. If the
Planning Commissi.on Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 8
�, firing range was
wall would have
of the�City.
going to be used by the Police Department, the
to be re-enforced and that would be the cost
Mr. Fitzpa.trick asked what the communities share of the
cost would be on a basic armory built at the present time.
Gener�.l Cheeseman said it would be about $90,000.
Qhairman Fitzpatrick asked if this proposal was going
favorably in any other communities. General Cheeseman said it
was about the same in most of the communities.. He has been '
asked to come back, similar to Fridley. When we are talking
about something so far in the future, five years minimum, we
are trying to find the communities that are interested in this
proposal so they will set aside the land for this purpose. The
City Council and Commission will change in five years, so we can't
pin them down to passing a resolution of intent. If we can't
find the communities that are interested in this proposal and
will set aside the land in case they might have an armory, then
when we are r.eady to construct the armory there won't be any
. land available.. We will then have to go out further in the
- suburbs, to the third ring, for instance. The big thing in
establishing a National Guard unit is the City's committment.
This is a patriotic organization of young men who give up their
^ time for the country with very little for it.
-� Mr. Clark asked what the National Guard wants from the City
at this time. General Cheeseman said it was a resolution of
inteni-of- which he has a sample. He gave this to Mr.�Clark.
This resolution states that the City considers the establishing
of an armory and National Guard unit favorably. There is nothing
binding as this is 5 to 7 years in the future. This will enable
us to start our planning.. This is a twenty year plan with the
Federal government. We expect to"construct an armory every other
year. It takes about three years to get this in the budget.
Mr. Clark asked General Cheeseman how long they would expect
the City to hold the land. General Cheeseman said it would be
until they have chosen the five locations.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said the resolution would come at the City
Council level, if�they so desired. The Planning Commission was
just a recommending body.
Mr. Clark said that.i� the City was going to set aside a
parcel of land, he thought they should have some idea on how
long they would have to hold the land.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said we are not talking just about
buildir,g an armory, but the establishment of a National Guard
� • Unit in Fridley. �
Mr. Drigans asked the general size of a National Guard unit.
General Cheeseman said it was about 140 men.
Mr. Lindblad asked what type unit this would be. General
��
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 9
Cheeseman said he thought it would be an artillery firing group.
Mr. Drigans asked General �heeseman if the $90,000 figure
for the communities cos� was today's�prices or a�uture price.
General Cheeseman said this was the current figure.
Paul Brown said at a previous meeting with General Cheeseman,
Leon Madsen, from the Assessing Department, thought the City's
cost would be between $80,000 and $90,000. Mr. Drigans said
e`-idently this cost would be more in five years, or more. �
Mr. Drigans asked General Cheeseman if he forsaw any change
in the National Guard in the next five years. General Cheeseman
answered, growth. Mr. Drigans asked about the training program.
General Cheeseman said they were in the regular army for six
months for basic training. Then they were worked back into
a National Guard unit as army reserve, and they continue their
training. The National Guard has both a Federal and State
responsibility which is unique. This unit can be used at any
government level, from National to local. The Guards have the
same equipment and organization as the regular army.
Mr. Lindblad asked General Cheeseman if the
�, have any protection from this unit getting larger
,f an excess of military vehicles.General Cheeseman
� unit would be splitif it got too large, and their
were stored at the New Brighton Arsenal.
City would
and having
said the
extra vehicles
Mr. Lindblad asked that if this armory was located in
Fridley, and we had free civic use, would surrounding communities
have free civic use. General Cheeseman said no. This would
be the Fridley Armory and any other community would have to pay
rental. '� " �
Mr. Drigans asked who would have first choice to use the
armory if there was a conflict. General Cheeseman said there
was a regular duty man on the premises, and the use of the
building would be on a first come, first served, basis. He
said t�Yiis was a problem they generally don't have but they
have never been in a situation where communities were so close
together.
General CheFSeman said this was rented by contract, so if this
was being used for a recreational use, for instance, at the same
time every week, that contract would be honored every week. There
would also be a citizen's committee to work out any problems between
the Guard and the City. .
�,... Mr. Harris asked who would be responsible for City services.
, General Cheeseman said the gover.nment would pay for sewer and water
' and other services.
� Chairman Fitzpatrick askec't if the armory would be staffed
� on a daily basis. General Cheesemen said the Commanding Officer
and� a custodian would be there during the day, and the custodian
`
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page��.10
�b�Id always be there when the building was in use.
Mr. Harris asked what security system they would have
for the vehicles. General Cheeseman said they would have
an alarm system and they would ask for a police check as
this is a civic building. General Cheeseman said the Federal
Government sets up the rules for security and they have to have
alarm systems and triple door.s because of the arms room.
Mr. Paul Brown said he has already stated the uses the
Parks & Recreation Department and other uses that could be
made of an armory at the July 18, 1973 Planning Commission
meeting. The usec mentioned are Community use, departmental
use, youth programs, assemblies, �own meetings, for regional
use, Federal use, and veteran use. iie though� he had made
his position quite clear in that there was a definite need
for additional facilities. Mr. Br�wn continued�that it
seems to him that when the City has the acreage it could
set aside, and there was a need, the consideration would have
to be on how the City wou].d finance it's share. Mr. Brown
said he would like to have the Planriing Commission g�ive the
Council a firm recommendation on this proposal to really
explore the feasibility of having an armory in Fridley.
i""1 Mr. Harris asked if this was a cement floor in the armory.
� General Cheeseman said it was. Mr. Harris asked if this was
satisfactory for basketball. General Cheeseman said it seemed
to be working out fine. He said the armory has a regulation
basketball court but there wasn't room for bleachers, so this
would be f�or intermural sports. • �
��
Mr. Harris asked if it would be possible to have indoor
tennis in this building. General Cheeseman said that would
be no groblem. �
Chairmar: Fitzpatrick said it has been pointed out earlier
that this also has dressing rooms and showers.
Mr. Brown said he has a drawing of the basic plan for an
armory. He said he would see that the Planning Commission members;
received copies of this, which does show what is available.
General Cheeseman presented pictures of armories that have
been�built recently in the State. •
Mr. Lindblad said he coul�n't accept that this would only
cost the City $90,000 because costs could change and as we are
far from saying what additional facilities we might want in this
armory, the cost could run conside'rably more. General Cheeseman
said there would be an agreement drawn up before the construction
began on the building, so the City would know their exact costs.
MOTION by Harris, seconded
Commission continue the armory
to a11ow more input from other
by B1air, that the Planning
proposal t.o an indefinite date
departments of the City.
a
� P'lanning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page 1�
�' Mr. Drigans asked the administration to prepare a letter
from the Planning Commission to the civic and service organizations
of Fridley, asking them if they would be interested in a Public
Hearing or a Public discussion on the armory proposal, or if they
would return back to us some type of correspondence on any usage
they would have for a National Guard facility. They could list
their pros and cons on this proposal and tell us of any needs that
could be filled with an armory located in Fridley.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, a1.Z voting aye, the m4tion carried
unanimously. '
3. PUBLIC HEARING: CREEK AND RIVER PRESERVATION MANAGEMENT ORD.
Mr. Kirk English, Department of Natural Resources, and
Mr. James Hanes, from HUD, who warks on the Federal Flood Program
in Minnesota and Wisconsin, were present.
MOTION BY DRIGAN5, SECONDED by Blair, that the Planning
Commission waive t.he reading of the pub�.ic Hearing notice for
the Creek and River Preservation 1�9ait�ge�rrtent Ordinance. ' Upon a,
voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motjon car�ied.unaimously.
Mr. Clark said there was a question when the Planning
n, Commission was reviewing this ordinance if there would be any
fluctuation in value of a home located in the CRP-2 zone before and
�� after the adoption of this ordinance. Would the home be easier
� or harder to sell. .
Mr. Haner said the worst it could do� would be to hold the
value stable and the value should go up because it was insurable.
Any praperty that is along a waterway should be in a preservation
district. This is one of the reguirements of F.H.A. and the V.A.
now, and it should follow.that this will become a requirement of
private lending agencies.
Mr. Blair said he had always heard that flood insurance on a
h�2me was expensive. Mr. Haner said that beforE �_°5s, t�� only
place you could get flood insurance was from Lloyd�s of London and
the rate was $6.95 per $100. When the subsidized flood insurance
program was passed by Congress in 1968, on homes costing $30,000
or less, the cost is $.25 per hundred, before the actuarial map
is e:tablished, and this represents about l00 of the premium.
90o�of the premium is ::ubsidized and handled through 10-0
insurance agencies in New York.
Mr. Hane� said on these homes of $30,000 or`.less, only
$17,500 can be insured under this subsidized program at""the
present time. Contents can be insured up to $5,000 for $.35
� per $100. When the comr�tunities ge�heir actuarial inaps, which
takes about three years, you will have the information and the
'r insurance company will be able to use this information to determine
the 100 year flood level, and with your local �opog��aphlymap, they
will be able to measure the ground level of a structure against
' the flood level, and actuarial rates can then be determined.
At that point, the property owner has the choice of the subsidized
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Page .Z2
�``� rate or the actuarial rate and the amount that can be insured
will be doubled. Presently, there is a law in Congress to
increase the coverage rate on a single family home to $30,000
(subsidized). The amount of contents that can be insured will
go up and also the amount that can be insured by business�s.
Mr. Haner said at the present time the homeowner will be
able to get subsidized insurance on $17,500 if his home cost
$30,000 or less. With the actuarial rates, it will depend
where his structure is located below or above the 100 year
flood level. If hisstructur� was at a high enough elevation,
it could only cost $.05 per $100.
Mr. Clark asked how this insurance would pay. If you had
a house that cost more than $17,500 but you could only insure
it for that amount, and the flood caused $3,000 structural
damage, would they pay the $3,000. M�. Haner said they would.
Mr. Harris said that with this ordinance, we are defining
the area where people can get flood insurance. He asked if this
was correct. Mr-. Haner said that once this ordinance was in
eff�ect, anyone within the corporate boundary of Fridley could
get flood insurance.
� Nlr. Harris asked if you lived in an area where there was
a drainage ditch and during an occasion of a heavy rain you
�. could have some.damage, would this be covered by flood insurance.
Mr. Haner said it would. He said a flood was defined by any
unusal amou�t of water into an area that is usually dry, unless
the problem was caused by some action of the homeowner. It
even covers mud slides.
Mr. Haner said the�.reason t�is legislation was passed was
because of the great drain on the taxpayers t-hrough the Disaster
Relief Fund. ThE: Congress said these people have to be helped
and if a community would agree to pass ordinances for proper
land management to reduce floods and flood damage, they would
be eligible for subsidized flood insurance.
M-r. Lindblad �asked if after a community has this flood
insurance available to them, if thE:y would still be eligible
f.or Disaster Relief Funds. Mr. Haner said the community would
not be eligible. Because of the present legislation, December
31,.1973 would be the cut off line for disaster relief and those
without insurance will'. find it more difficult to receive flood
relief. Mr. Haner continued that last year there were 48 areas
designated as disaster areas and 46 �f these were floods. It
cost the Disaster Relief Fund br taxpayers, between 9 and 10
billion dollars. �
��� • Chairman Fitzpatrick said it would depend upon the State
program as to whether you were eligible for,Disaster Relief.
Mr. Haner said Minnesota has passed the l,ecrislatioh and it
is such an easy program to get into at lit"tle cost so it is
. good business for a community to get into this flood insurance
program. � �
���
�
Planning Commission Meeting - November.7, 1973 Page 13
Mr. Blair asked the CRP-1 area and the CRP-2 area to re defined
Mr. Boardman said that in a CRP-2 zone shown in red pn
the map, buil'dings fcr occupation would be allowed if they
were filled to two feet above the 100 year flood level and if that
wasri!t feasible, then protect the structure according to the
State Standards. Any construct�on would require a Special Use
Permit. In a CRP-1 zone, shown on blue on the map, this
allows use that is not for human habitation and has a low flood
potential damage, such as parking lots, tennis courts, or •
small park areas, that will not raise the flood cross section
level more than .5 feet.
Mr. Drigans said we did have a question on who had juris4
diction �n appro"val �� a Special��se Permit, where it says all
governing bodies have jurisdiction over such use or obstruction,
but in a memo from Jerry Boardman on October 31, 1973, it states
that Mr. Boardman has talked to Jim Wright of the Department of
Natural Resources and he said the City of Fridley has sole
priority on the.decisions within its boundaries. A�proval of
other bodies are not _ necessary since these are merely
recommending to the City. There is a discrepancy here. Maybe
this secion should be rewritten. Mr. Boardman agreed that it
should be rewritten.
� Mr. Clark said there are some lots in Riverview Heights
that are vacant and it is not feasible to fill them up
to two feet above the 100 year flood level, and yet the valuation af
homes in this area would make it economically unfeasible to
have expensive flood proofing of the structure.
�
Mr. English said they would either have to fill the property
or flood proof the structure.. If the City made it a habit of.
giving permission for variances and Special Use Permits that
did not meet the State Standards, they would lose their eligibility
for subsidized flood insurance.
Mr. Clark said the Planning Commission should not feel guilty
if they have to turn down any such requests that don't meet the
State Standards. •
Mr. Drigans said he didn't think the owners of the vacant
property are aware that this rodinance could make some of the
lots�unbuildable. Mr. Clark said they woul'd have the option of
flood proofing any structure they would want to build.
Mr. Clark said there was also a question raised that in
a real emergency situation, during.flooding, and your property
was washing away, can the property owner take emergency action for
fill to protect his property. Mr. English said that in these
circumstances, he was sure that any property owner would have the
right to protect his property, but after the emergency was over
he would need a Special Use Per.mit, to make permanent repairs to
his property. •
Planning Commission Meeting - November 7, 1973 Pagel�
�`' Mr. Harris asked about removing trees and vegetation
from a�river �ank or along a waterway. Mr. English said there
were no restrictions on this. Mr. Harris said this would expose
the banks to erosion. Mr. English said this could be put in
the Fridley ordinance. It would exceed the State Standards, but
there's no reason the ordinance can't do that. Mr. Clark
said this could be added to the CRP-1 zone. Mr. Boardman said it
can be put in the preservation area of the ordinance.
,�
MOTTON by Lindblad, seconded by Blair, that the Planning
Commission close the Public Hearing on the Creek & River Preser=
vation Management Ordinance. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimousl�.
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris that the Planning
Commission recommend to the Cit� Council adoption of the
Creek and River Preservation Ordinance, after the foZlowing
changes have been made:
(1) Add the preservation of existing trees and vegetation
to CRP.-1 zone under section 5, subsection B.
(2) Rewrite paragraph 8 on page 5 of the ordinance to
state that any Special Use Permit being considered�
by the City is subject to the recommendation of aZ1
other governing bodies.
Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
4. DISCUSSION ON ENERGY CRISIS
Mr. Drigans said he had listened to President Nixon's
speech on television before the meeting this�evening (November 7)
and felt some action �hould be taken by the City of Fridley
�o help �o�v�.the critical energy crisis. He said as long as
the Planni.ng Commission was an ��dvisory board to the Council he
would like to ask the �ouncil to appoint a citizen's committee to
study this problem.
In the discussion that followed, other members of the
Commission though� this might be premature and wanted to wait
until Federal and State controls had been set.
Chairman Fitzpatrick adjourned the meeting at 11:50 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
� .
Dorothy Eve on, Secretary
�
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