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PL 12/18/1974 - 7501CITY OF FRIDLEY ��. A G E N D A ;� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 18, 1974 8:00 P.M. CALL TO ORDER: PAGES � . . . . . . � � � . k . .. . .. . . . . . . � � k ROLL CALL: F APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: DECEMBER 4, 1974 1- 15 RECEIVE PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION SUBCOMMITTEE 16 - 23 MINUTES: NOVEMBER 25, 1974 ].. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, 24 - 29 SP #74-17, GEORGE WALQUIST: To permit the construc- tion of a building for rust-proofing of automol�iles,� etc., per Fridley City Code, Section 205.131, 3, .(.A;.10) , in an M-1` zone (light industrial areas) to be located on Lot 5, proposed plat, Herwal Rice Creek Terrace, generally located 240 feet west of Central Avenue on the north side of F3io.e C�eek Road N.E. �� 2. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A PRELIMINARY . PLAT, P.S. #74-07, REAL ESTATE 10 ADDITION, FRANCIS �w. : J . GIRDLER: ..,. Public Hearing open. � Tabled ADJOURNMENT: Workshop meeting after regular meeting adjourns. .� ,.,. , � ^ CITY OF FRIDLEY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETSNG - DECEMBER 4, 1974 PAGE 1 CALL TO ORDER: Chairman Fitzpatrick called the meeting to order at 8:00 P.M. ROLL CALL: , Members Present: Drigans, Fitzpatrick, Harris, Lindblad, Langenfeld ' Members Absent: Blair -0thers Present: Darrel Clark, Community Development Administrator APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: NOVEMBER 20, 1974 MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindblad,_that the Planninq Commission minutes of the November 20;: 1974 meeting be approved . with changes which are: Page I0, paragraph 3, sentence changed to read, There was also discussion as to some tyge of policy ordinance that should be developed whereby the Environmental Quality Commision would be used by the City as a viable commission in the area of envir- onmental concerns, and on Page .Z3, paragraph 2, sentence changed to, Mr. Drigans said he had mentioned at the meeting on November 19th that if the Cit� is going to have some type of Environmental Policy Act, such as the State has, and until that time, the Council could pass a resolution placing the Chairman of the Environmental Quality �, Commission on the Planning Commission either as a fu11 member or an ex-officio member. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the minutes were approved as amended. RECEIVE PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-STREETS & UTILITI�S SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES: NOVEMBER 19, 1974 MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindb.2ad, that the.Planninq Commission receive the minutes of the P1ats & Subdivisions-Street & Utilities Subcommittee meeting of November I9, 1974. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. REC�IVE BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES: NOV- EMBER 21, 1974 MOTION by Lindblad, seconded by Drigans, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Building Standards�-Design Control Subcommittee meeting of November 21, 1974. Upon a voice vote, aZ.Z voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 1. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A PROPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. #74-08, H�RWAL RICE CREEK TERRACE, BY GEORGE L. WALQUIST: A xeplat of Lot 1 and Outlot l, Block 1, Don's Addition, located at the Northwest quadrant of Rice Creek Road and Central Avenue N.E. ^ Mr. Richard Walquist was present ta represent the petitioner. 2 Chairman Fitzpatrick read the Public Hearing notice. �.-, Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 2 Mr. Clark said that the land in this plat is between Rice Creek � Road and the Westerly extension of 64th Avenue. East of this plat there are a series of double bungalows that face Pierce Street and are adjacent to Central Avenue on the Wast. He said the property was all zoned M-1 (light industrial) and will be platted into five lots. The first lot is occupied by a moving van company. There are no plans for Lots 2, 3, and 4, however, on Lot 5, there is a tentative purchase agreement by a company that does rust-proofing of automobilesr etc. He cQritinued that the building that was drawn in an Lot 5 was not necessarily the building that would be built on this lot, but was the largest building that could be built and meet the setback reguirements and yet stay far enough away from the sanitary sewer so that it could be maintained. He said that 15 feet was as close as we would want the building to be to this sanitary sewer, providing that the footing elevation was 877.5 above sea level. That is on the basis of a slope of 1 to 1 ratio to the pipe. If the footing was deeper the easement could be smaller, and if the footing was less, it would be la�ge�. The elevation of 877.5 would be 6 feet below the present grade of Rice Creek Road. Mr. Clark said there was a memo from the Engineering Department showing the different elevations and what the easement would have to be for each one, and the petitioner could have a copy of this so it would give him an option as to what elevation he would want to use. He said the property was about three feet below the grade of Rice Creek Road at the pres�nt time. Mr. Clark said there was a sewer line that runs along the West � boundary of this plat and this does sever Lot 5 about 1/3 of the way from the West boundary line. There was also a drainage ditch along�Rice Creek Road which is on both Lots 4 and 5, and there was another drainage ditch running along the Westerly boundary of this plat, which was not shown on the preliminary plat, and this ditch was between l0 and 15 feet from the boundary line. Mr. Clark said that all lots in M-1 zoning have to be at least 3/4 acre. Lot 2 is about 400 sguare feet short. He said that two feet could be taken from Lot 3, so Lot 2 could be 115 feet which would make Lot 2 3/4 acre. Lot 3 is deeper than Lot 2, so this lot would still meet the area requirement. ' Mr. Harris said that at the Plats & Subdivisions-Streets & Utilitue5 Subcommittee meeting, they were told that the owner of Lot 1 wanted to acquire some additional land. Mr. Clark said the preliminary plat reflects this now. Mr. Clark said the moving company wants to use this land for storage and they didn't know if they could get a permit to build these storage facilities. Lot 1, as shown on the plat, includes land that is not presently owned by the occupant of Lot l. Mr. Fitzpatrick said this really doesn't enter into the consideration of the plat, however. Mr. Harris said that the petitioner of the Plats & Subs Subcommittee except and utility easement alon� the Westerl� � ditch and sanitary sewer line. has met all the stipu?����ns the stipulation for a drainage property line for the drainage Mr. Drigans said that he felt that by taking two feet off Lot 3 and adding in on to Lot 2, this would make Lot 3 a narrow lot. Mr. Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 3 /"1 Clark said the stipulation could be that all lots me�t the 3/4 acre requirement and leave it to the petitvoner to shif t the lot lines. � � Mr. Harris asked Mr. Clark if it was the City's i�tent to go along with these drainage ditches instead of storm sewers? Mr. Clark said the Rice Creek Watershed District either has a policy or a law in which they will not allow us to put open drainage ditches into pipe, because they want them to act as sediment basins, for salt, fertilizers and such, that would be running off the streets, to keep these things from going into Moore Lake or Rice Creek. He said that if they did pipe part of the ditches that were �oing over to Harris Lake Estates, for instance, they would have to put in sump pumps intermittently along it to allow for sedimentation. Mr. Harris said then this was basically the system that would remain in this area. He asked how the drainage would be handled on this plat. Mr. Clark said he thought the lots that were facing Central Avenue would drain the front part of the lot towards Central Avenue, and the rear of the lots would drain to the ditch on the Westerly boundary, and then down to Rice Creek Road. Mr. Harris said there would have to be a culvert for Lot 5, so they could have a driveway. Mr. Clark said �hat Mr. Walquist had gotten permission from the Coun ty to put a pipe under the drive- way. Mr. Fitzpatrick said it seemed that there was provision for drainage on the plat_, and the rest would be handled in the grading of the property. . Mr. Clark said the occupancy for Lot 5 was advertised for a Special Use Permit for. the next Planning Commission meeting, so they would get a chance to discuss the size and location�of the building on this lot at that time. Mr. Fitzpatrick said the approval of the Special Use Permit doesn't have any bearing on the approval of the plat, did it? Mr. Clark said no. Mr. Walquist said that this plat started with the discussion by the owner of Lot 1, who wanted to pick up additional frontage along Central Avenue, and during those discussions on how to break up this property into additional lots, the other party came in and asked about developing Lot 5. Mr. C1ark said Mr. Walquist did inquire about a lot split so this property could be developed, but he recommended that Mr. Walquist plat the property as a better solution. Mr. Fitzpatrick asked about the ownership of the entire plat. Mr. Walquist said there were two ownerships of Lots 2 through 5, and Lot l is owned by someone e1se. He said one owner owns 50 feet of Lat 1, as it is now platted, along with Lots 2 and 3. The other owner owns Lots 4 and 5. Mr. Drigans asked first place. Mr. Clar petitioner has proper� of the plat, so he set ment. why this was designated as an outlot in the k said it is a tool of platting when the y that he isn`t ready to develop with the rest s aside part of the property for future develop- Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 4 MOTION by Lindblad, seconded by Harris, that the Planning Commission close the Public Hearing on the consideration of a � preliminary p1at, P.S. #74-08, Herwal Rice Creek Terrace,.by George L. Walquist. Upon a voice vote, a1I voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. ' Mr. Clark said he would like the memo from the Engineering Department as part of the motion. They could probably call it Exhibit "A", and also the drainage easement for the ditch along the Westerly boundary should be wide enough so we could maintain a three to one slope on its banks. He said he couldn!t tell the Planning Commission how wide it should be, because he didn't know how much fill it would take to make the property higher than the ditch. He said that maybe Mr. Walquist would go along with a 30 to 40 foot easement for both a drainage and utility easement in this area. He said this property line is adjacent to R-2 property and they will have to maintain a 50 foot setback from this zoning in a M-1 District. Mr. Clark said this setback could be used for storage and parking areas. If the Planning Commissvon stipulated that anything 15 feet from the East side of the sanitary sewer line to the west property line ��e dedicated for drainage and utility easement, this would take care of it. MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Commission recommend to Council approval �f the preliminary p1at, P.S. #74-08, Herwal Rice Creek Terrace, by George L. Walquist, a repZat of Lot 1 and Outlot 1, B.Zoak .Z, Don's Addition, located at the Northwesf quadrant of Rice Creek Road and Central Avenue N.E., � with the following stipuZations: • 1. A11 the 1ot sizes meet the requirement of 3/4 acre. 2. A drainage and utiZity easement be estab.Zished from 15 feet East of the Sanitary Sewer pipe to the Westerly property Zine. 3. Dedicate a 30 foot drainage ditch easement on the South property line. 4. Footing elevations to be adjusted as per memo from the Engineering Department, dated DecemUer 4, Z974 and designated as Exhibit "A". Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 2. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #74-15, FRANIC'S NURSERY: Per Fridley City Code, Section 205.101, 3,N, to allow the outside storage of inerchandise behind an unscreened chain link fence, to be located on Lot l, Block 1, East Ranch Estates 1st Addition, together with the Easterly 120 feet of that part of the NWa of the NW4 of Section ll, T-30, R-24, lying North of Osborne Road and West and adjacent to Lot l, Block l, East Ranch Estates lst Addition, the same being 7620 University ^ Avenue N.E. Mr. Jerry Schroer was present to represent the petitioner. �*,,,�.e, Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 5 � MOTION by Driqans, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Commission waive the read.zng of the Public Hearing notice on the request for a Special Use Permit, SP #74-15, by Frank's Nursery. Upon a voice vote, a1I voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. ^ � Mr. Clark said the main reason for this request was that they want to put in an outside display west of the present structure, amd they do not want to put up a screening fence. He said this was before Building Standards a couple of weeks ago and the plam was approved with the stipulation that if the petitioner did not put up a screening fence, he had to have a 5pecial Use Permit granted by Council to put up an unscreened chain link fence. Mr. Lindblad said that normally Building Standards ask for a wood fenee ox' a chain link fence that was slatted. Mr. Clark said the area we ar� taking about is about 100 feet from Osborne Road, and was an area used mostly for sales and storage. Mr. Schroer said it would be used mostly for retail sales. He said that Frank's Nursery takes a little different view of a cTose out sale in the fall, so to speak, and they basically sell down to nothing. He continued that this area would be used to sell nursery stock and bag goods in the spring of the year. The bag goods would be kept along the West fence line. Mr. Fitzpatrick said the fence we are discussing will be between the blacktop area and the new nursery bed, then. Mr. Harris asked about the zoning of said it was C-2S (general shopping areas). this property. Mr. Clark Chairman Fitzpatrick said the Special Use is for sales of merchandise in the open then. Mr. Clark said this was correct. Mr.. Harris said he felt this should have gone for a variance rather than a Special Use because it was just a change in the fence. Mr. Clark said that in a commercial area, if there was outdoor storage of inerchandise in the open, it requires a Special Use Permit, and this was basically what it was. Mr. Lindblad said this area was no longer the way it had been in the past. A lot of changes have been made. They are not going to have concrete blocks, etc. towards Osborne Road. The frontage that faces Osborne Road was shrubs from Osborne Road to the parking area. There will be no storage in the front, it will all be in the rear. Mr. Harris asked what section of the code was being used so that this required a Special Use Permit. Mr. Clark said it was 205.101, 3, N. Mr. Drigans said he thought it should be 205.10'1, 3, 0. Mr. Clark said the section of the code quoted says "trailers, campers, mobile homes, boats, machinery, sporting equipment and like enterprises having its merchandise in the open and not under cover of a display room.° � � Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 6 Mr. Harris said as he reads the Public Hearing notice, this was a special use to take out the screening fence. Mr. Clark said he either had to put up a screening fence, or get a special use to store the merchandise in the open. Mr. Drigans said then the code says you have to have a screening fence to have outdoor sales. Mr. Clark said no, you do not. Mr. Harris said the code says you have to have a special use permit. Mr. Drigans said they must have a special use permit for outdoor sales, because they have been selling out there for years. Mr. Lindblad said the basic reason they had been asked to put up a wooden fence in the first place, was not that this was a sales area, but because this was a storage area. He said the Building Standards-Design Control Subcommittee always recommends a screening fence when outside storage was visib]_e from the street. Mr. Harris asked what section of the code was being used as the basis for a screening fence? Mr. Clark said that our interpretation was that if you want to have display merchandise, whether it be boats, snowmobiles or nursey stock, in the open, why would you want to screen it? Mr. Harris said that was not what the ordinance said. Mr. Clark said it doesn't say anything, it says out in the open, not under co�er of a display salesroom. • Mr. Fitzpatrick said then what you are saying is that this would ^ be allowed with a Special Use Permit, if there was screening. H�, said he thought outdoor sales required a Special Use Permit whether it was screened or not. Mr. Harris said this is what he thoug�t also. Mr. Harris said he still wondered where the screening fence came from. �'�1 Mr. Clark said this came up at Building told him to either put up a screening fence, Permit. Mr. Drigans said then the screening and is not a violation of the code. Standards where they or get a Special Use is merely a stipulation, Mr. Lindblad said this has been a recommended policy for some time. Mr. Harris said it has been arbitrarily recommended, let's put it that way. He said he could take someone all over the community, and some places we do, and some places we don't. Mr. Lindblad said he didn't think Mr. Harris would find that in the last two or three years. Mr. Harris said he could show where it happened last year. Mr. Lindblad asked where this was. Mr. Harris said the Building Standards probably didn't even see it, and it was arbitrarily done. Mr. Harris said the code has been arbitrarily administrated ever since it was adopted. Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Schroer if Frank's Nursery already had a Special Use Permit to sell nursery stock? Mr. Schroer„ said they did. Mr. Drigans said that he felt that was all they needed. Chairman Fitzpatrick said that there was a stipulation on that Special Use Permit that they have a screening fence. Mr. Drigans said this was just a stipulation, and not a violation of the code. Chairman Fitz- srv I ; r Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 7 patrick said this was a stipulation of the Special Use Permit, so where we are now, was that they wanted to continue to do a� they have always done, but without the screening fence. � Mr. Clark said that Frank`s Nursery was doing things a lot different than the way things were done before. He said the merchandise area had been moved way back on the lot, that they had put in berms and shrubbery in front of the parking area, and the entire area was very much improved. Mr. Fitzpatrick said it was a much improved business, and yet he felt they were still operating within the Special Use Permit they already have, with the exception of the screening fence. � . Mr. Harris asked Mr. Schroer how tall,the nursery stock was. Mr. Schroer held out his hand and showed how high the shrubbery was, and he said the trees were taller. Mr. Harris said he would have to cut all the trees off at six feet, because this is what the code says. It says you can't have a screening fence over eight feet high , and anything behind the screening fence has to be two feet shorter. Chairman Fitzpatrick said they weren't thinking about nursery stock :- when they wrote the ordinance. Mr. Harris said they weren't thinking about anything. Obviously, the person who wrote this didn't know what he was writing. Mr. Fitzpatrick said this was written for the stacking of inerchandise behind a fence. He said this wouldn't pre- clude acting on this petition. Mr. Drigans said he didn't see how they could act on this petition. He was afraid that if we did this, he could �ust see this c�mpounding. Every time someone wanted to put up a fence, Building Standards were going to tell_people to get a. _ � Special Use Permit, and he didn't feel this was required. He said that the section of the code that this business was operating under, doesn`t require a sc�eening fence. Mr. Fitzpatrick said. the Special Use that he was operating under had a stipulation that there must be a wooden scr�ening fence,' and that's what the petitioner wants to change. � Mr. Drigans said he thought what the petitioner should do was just go to the City Council and say he wants this fence, and ask them to waive this stipulation on the Special Use Permit. Mr. Lindblad said then Mr. D.rigans would be fighting everything that the Building Standards-Design Control Subcommittee had been suggesting and enforcing. Mr. Drigans said that these were only stipulations. Mr. Lindblad said that was right, but the object of Building Standards was to make some of these places a little more attractive to the people who_have to look at them. If Mr. Drigans was going to take that point of view, then there was no point in Building Standards requesting or suggesting anything. He said it was just like pre cast curbing, which we really don't approve of, but he said he didn't know if there was anything in the code that said they couldn't be used. Mr. Harris said just a minute. He told Chairman Fitzpatrick that he wished to step down from his position on the Planning Commission � and take issue with the City administration and the Puilding Standards Chairman. In his own personal dealing with them, we have been forced to put in concrete curbs on a particular project of ours, when we -�'.�"�'"" } Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 8 I had requested to put in pre cast curbing for drainage purposes. He said �e thought the code had been arbitrarily and capriciously ^ administrated since 1969. He said he wasn't saying it was all the administration's fault. The ordinance, in many cases, was lacking in candor and knowledge of the situation as it exists in the City of Fridley. He said that he personally felt that the person who wrote the ordinance hasn't the faintest idea of what's going on, has never driven anything larger than a half ton pick-up truck, and sits in an ivory tower someplace and doesn't know anything about business, building or anything else. He thanked the Planning Commission and said that was all he had to say on the subject. Mr. Drigans said he understood what the Building Standards- Design Control Subcommittee was trying to do when they try to enhance the surrounding property, but he thought they extended themselves a little too far when they direct a petitioner that they must have a Special Use Permit, or get a variance, when in essence they were not violating any codes. They are only attaching a recommendation or a stipulation, and he thought that if the petitioner wanted to take issue with a stipulation, that it should go directly to Council. He said he could see nothing in the code that says the petitioner must have a screenin� fence. Mr. Fitzpatrick said there was a stipulation on the existing Special Use Permit that says they must have a wooden screening ience. Mr. Drigans said then they are being asked to get a Special Use Permit on a Special Use Permit. Mr. Clark said that when this Special Use Permit was issued there were certain stipulations put on this Special Use Permit. Now ^ the petitioner has come up with a new plan; and he doesn`t want the wooden screening fence. It was the Planning Commission and the Council who originally approved this Special U�e Permi� with this stipulation. Now the petitioner was back before the same body asking to have the stipulation for the screening fence removed. Mr. Drigans and Mr. Harris said they did not get this informatio� from the hearing notice for this request. Mr. Clark said the reason this was brought to the Planning Commission's attention was because the petitioner was no longer providing a screening fence to keep this area from being out in the open. Mr. Fitzpatrick said the reason this stipulation was put on the other Special Use Permit was because we were screening something that was much closer to Osborne Road, and his interpretation of •the present petition was simply to have a Special Use Permit witnout that stipu- lation. Mr. Harris said that the petitioner was in essence asking that the screening fence be removed. Mr. Clark said the present location of the nursery stock would make this screening fence unnecessar.y. Mr. Lindblad said he thought that he was under a misunderstanding as far as the Building Standards-Design Control Subcommittee was concerned. It was his understanding that this Subcommittee was a recommending and advisory _ group set up by Council to give recommenda- ^ tions and advic e to the Council. He said they didn't have any say on whether this or that was done, we just make suggestions on how we think something could be done better, whether this is code or not �� Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 9 code,.it's still strictly up to the Council. For instance, the code ^ says a building has ta be painted. If they really want to get nit- picking, they can just paint it one solid color, but we suggest maybe breaking this up into different colors, using some break-off block, or other means, so that when this building is constructed, there is some type of break in a long wall. As far as this screening is con- cerned, he said he didn't care if it was code, law or what have you, he didn't care at his point. We recommend that some things have to be screened, and why it has to come to a Special Use Permit, we don't care about that either. It's just that he thought the Subcommittee was supposed to be doing a job of making recommendations to the Council, who can over-rule us whether we like it or not. Chairman Fitzpatrick said that in this instance, he thought the Building Standards-Design Control S u�x ommittee had a good reason for stipulating the wooden fence at the time that they did, but now that the plans have changed, he didn't think they would make the same stipulation now. Mr. Lindblad said he thought when it got right down to it, they were saying the Building Standards-Design Control Subcommittee wasn't necessary and everyone should just interpret the code any.�ay�,they want to. That's what seems to be beinq said here, if we recommend any�hing that's not specifically in the code, we are wasting ou'r. time. Chairman Fitzpatrick said that stipulations can be recommended. Mr. Lindblad said that is what happened on this. We made the recom- ^ mendation that the screening fence remain, and the.petitioner did not want this because he wanted his display visable and open. Mr. Lindblad said why this recommendation for a Special Use Permit didn't go directly to Council, instead of being routed to the Planning Commission, he really didn't know. . � Mr. Harris said he thought the basic fault lies with the ordinance. He said that he didn't think the ordinance even comes close to being able to handle the situations we get into. If you go through the screening section, it was obvious that it was inadequate and just won't fit any of the problems. He said that as he read the petitioner's request, the basic reason for this fence was for security. He said that maybe this wasn't the time to discuss this, but maybe we should get down to the prablem of why we have fence5. If it is for security reasons, then obviously a wooden fence or a slatted chain link fence wouldn't be for security. The police couldn't see through a solid fence, and anyone could hide behind such a fence. If it's a fence between residential and commerical or industrial property, then you need a,screening fence. There is no place in the ordinance where these different situations are taken into account. He said the Planning Commission would really have to make a greater effort to get through these ordinances so we can make some recommendations to the Council. Chairman Fitzpatrick said he agreed that there were many sections of the code that needed recommendations for change, but he didn't � think the present petitioner should be held up on his request. He = has a legitimate request, and a recommendation should be made one way or the other. �� , � Plannin Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 10 Mr. Dr�gans said that what he thought was required by the Planning Commission was a motion to Council recommending that they modify the existing Special Use Permit stipulation for a wooden screen- ` ing fence to an unscreened 'chain link fence for security. He said � he thought this was the motion to be made for two reasons, one being that he didn't think a Special Use Permit was necessary for a fence, and the other reason was because he thought the wrong section of the code was used in the PubZic Hearing notice. MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris, that the Planning Commission close the Public Hearing on the request for a Specia3 Use Permit, SP #74-I5, Frank`s Nursery. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. � MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris, that the Planning Commission '. recommend to Council that the request for a 5pecial Use Permit, SP , #74-15, by Frank`s Nursery, per Fridley City Code, Section 205.10I, 3, N, to allow the outside storage of inerchandise behind an unscreened chain link fence, to be located on Lot I, Block 1, East Ranch Estates Ist Addition, together with the Easterly 120 feet of that part of the NW% of the NW� of 5ectian 11, T-30, R-24, lying North of Osborne Road and West and adjacent to Lot Z, Block 1, East Ranch Estates lst Addition, the same being 7620 University Avenue N.E., is not necessary, and recommend that Council modify the existing 5pecial Use Permit, SP #71-07, to change the stipulation of a wooden screening fence to . a chain Iink fence for security purposes. ^ Mr. Langenfeld said that if the merchandise on�display should becgme a visual hazard, he felt that at that time, this re.quest should be reconsidered as to whether this area should be screened or not, or else they should move the display under cover. � Mr. D�igans asked Mr. Langenfeld what he meant by a visual hazard? Mr. Langenfeld said it would be something that was unpleasing to the e�e. Chairman Fitzpatrick said that originally when the fence was required, this business was 30 feet from the road, and now we are talking about it being setback almost 150 feet from Osborne Road. Mr. Drigans said he didn't see that this would ever create a visual hazard. Mr. Schroer said that no one has asked for it, but he was wiiling to take a portion of the wooden fence, that has been taken down, and put it up from the building and on out about 30 feet. All the tools and nursery stock that has to be brought back to look good aga�n, would be stored behind this wooden fence. Mr. Langenfeld asked where they kept their bales of hay at �his ' time? Mr. Schroer said they kept them under.neath.the roof. UPON A VOICE VOTE, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 3. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMI�, SP #74-16, BY REYNOLD E. SWANSON: Per Fridley City Code, Section 205.101, 3, N,tc permit the extension of the present Special Use Permit for a �obileHome Sales Lot, located on the West 375' of Lot 3, Auditor's Subdivision No. 89, subject to a street and utility easement over the Westerly 40' thereof, the same being 7151 Highway #65 N.E. �� Planning Commission Meeting - De�ember 4, 1974 Page 1 1 Mr. Reynold Swanson was present. � MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris, that the Planning Commission waive the reading of the Public Hearing notice on the request for a Special Use Permit, SP #74-16, by Reynold Swanson. Upon a voice vote, a1� votinq aye, the motion carried unanimously. Mr. Swanson said he was the sole owner and operator of this mobile home saleslot and had been since July of 1972. Mr. Clark said the oriqinal agreement was in the agenda, and this was a three year Special Use Permit, that was not renewable, and wi11 run out in July, 1975. When Mr. Swanson called and asked us how he could renew this Special Use Permit, and the agreement stated that it was unrenewable, he was told that he had to start all over again with a new Special Use Permit request. Mr. Fitzpatrick asked why the Public Hearing notice states that this is an extension of a Special Use Permit, then. Mr. Clark said , that was because the property was presently being used for this purpose. Mr. Harris said'�.the Planning Commission had another request for a Special Use Permit for the same purpose just a short time ago, and had used this agreement as a model for that request, and he couldn't remember if we had stipulated that Special Use Permit wasn't renew- able or not. Chairman Fitzpatrick said that he remembered that they didn't. � Mr. Fitzpatrick said he was on the Planning Commission at the time this Special Use Permit was granted, but he couldn't remember why they had stipulated it wasn't renewable. Mr. Swanson said that at that time, the owner of the property, Mr. Donald Harstad, was contemplating building at this location. At the present time, because of inflation and costs, etc., he has no plans for utilizing this property. He said there was also some problem� with the previous operators of the lot, when the first request was considered. Mr. Harris asked if this permit had had.a yearly reviewal. Mr. Clark said the staff had reviewed it annually, but not ?�y�the Planning Commission. Mr. Clark said the lot had just been 'inspected, przor to this meeting, and it does meet all the stipulations that were in the agreement. It is clean and in good condition. MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris, that the Planning Commissian receive the Zetter from the owner of the property, Don Harstad, dated November 13, I974. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Mr. Drigans said that in reading this letter, he didn't see any reference as to how long Mr. Swanson would be able to have this lot, � or to lease it. Mr. Swanson said he was going to have a five year - lease, if this Special Use Permit was granted. �� Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 12 Mr. Drigans said that if the recommendation was to grant this permit, he thought it should be tied to the termination of the lease ^ the same as they did on the last request for a Special Use Permit far the same use. Mr. Drigans said we did ask for additional black- top on the other request aiso. . Mr. Harris asked if the lot was all crushed rock? Mr. Swanson said he'had an area 30' x 30' blacktopped that was the entrance to the lot. The balance of the lot was class V with an oil base that has been on the lot since it was started and this has held up very well. He said that if this new Special Use Permit was approved, he would be willing to blacktop the entire lot. He said � fence had been put up on the back of the lot to screen Mr. Harstad's operation away from this lot, and they had put in more sodding. Mr. Drigans said that another stipulation that they had put on the other request was that the petitioner keep majority ownership of this business, and it not be transferable to someone e1se. Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Clark if there had been any complaints on this lot. Mr. Clark said they didn't have any on this operator, but they had had some on the previous owner. . Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Swanson if he had a five year lease at this time. Mr. Swanson said his present lease ran until July, 1975, and ha� talked to Mr. Harstad, and he has agreed to a five year lease. MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindb2ad, that the Planning /1, Commission close the Public Hearing on the request.for a Special Use Permit, SP #74-16, by Reynold Swanson. Upon a voice vote, a12 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. MOTION �y Drigans, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Commission recommend to CounciZ approval of the request for a Special Use Permit, 5P #74-16, by Reynold E. Swanson, per Fridley City Code, Section 205.101, 3, N, to permit the extension of the present Special Use Permit for a Mobile Home Sales Lot, Iocated on the West 375 feet of Lot 3, Auditor`s 5ubdivision No. 89, subject to a street and utility easement over the Westerly �0 feet thereof, the same being 7151 Highway #65 N.E. with the following stipulations: OPERATOR 1. A Special Use Permit to operate a mobile home sales lot is given only to Reynold E. Swanson as an individual and he wi11 be the operator of the business. If the business changes hands or he�no longer is the majority owner and operator of the business, the permit wi11 be null and void, and would have to be reviewed by the City Council before transfer. OFFICE 1. The office trailer wi11 be blocked on concrete b3ocks and the n base wi12 be skirted with aluminum. The office wi11 be connected to utilities; such as water, sewer, gas and electricity. �`� ^ -Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Page 13 2. Two restrooms wi1Z be installed in the office for the public's use. 3. The office trailer wi11 be taxed as a permanent structure. MOBILE HOME5 1. There wi11 be no permanent residents in the mobile homes and no repairing or storage of damaged trailers. 2. LOT I: . There wi11 be a minimum of 10 feet of space between trailers. The public and empZoyee parking 1ot areas to be blacktoppe.d by October .Z, 1975- 2. The area on the West side of the Iot wi11 have more rock and additional planting and no existing trees will be removed. Precast curb wi11 be put along the entrance and along the parking area for the customers. - 3. The land will be kept clean and free of a11 debris, junk, and unsightly material and a11 green areas will be kept free of weeds, cutand well groomed. 4. There wi11 be no washouts on the property due to surface drainage and if there are any, these wi11 be filled in and /, taken care of immediately. ^ LIGHTING �. Adequate security Iighting (a minimum of two Iights at the East end of the 1ot) will be installed for better observation by the police. � SIGNS 1. The existing sign wi11 be used, but there will be no flashing or feeling of motion in the light. 2. The Operator will comply with the requirements of the Sign Ordixance regarding banners, pennants, etc. PERMIT 1. This Special Use Permit be issued for a maximum of five years or to run concurrently with the lease, which ever is Iess. UPD�'V A VOICE VOTE, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 4. P,RELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. #74-07, REAL E5TATE I0 ADDITION, BY FRANCIS J. �IRDLER: Tabled. No action taken. �`� , Planning Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 _ Page 14 5. DISeUSSION � Mr. Harris said he had attended the seminar at Normandale Junior College on November 21, 1974. Unfortunately their printed schedule didn't mesh with the topic of discussion, he said, so they didn't talk about the particular topic he was interested in which was federal funding for housing for the elderly. �"� ^ Mr. Harris said they did discuss the zoning code, which was ; very interesting also. They used Robbinsdale as a model, because that was where the instructor was�from. There were �ome interesting comments and it was wellworth the $5.00, he said. One thinq that was brought up was that we probably'should area plan instead of saying an area was, for instance, all M-2. If its all M-2, which is all industry, in an area like this we cannot provide other services, such as a restaurant. Mr. Harris said they seem to be doing something like this in the Georgetown complex, and he didn't know if this was code or not. He said Mr. Filister was providing a beauty shop, other small shops and even a nursery school. He sai.d he thought this was a good thing. Mr. Clark said this was allowed as an accessory >>se in R-3 zoning. These services are-just for the people living iri�,George- town and 1Qa of the area can be used for such �purposes. Mr. Harris said the instructor also mentioned that there was a building in Robbinsdale where they have parking on' three floors, and then some floors �or businesses, and the top floors are apar�ments, which he thought was an exc.ellent idea. Mr. Fitzpatrick said that it was true that you could find your- self in an industrial area, and not find a coffee shop for a long ways. Mr. Harris said there was an exchange of ideas on the zoning codes, and we found that we all had basically the same problems. Mr. Clark said the question of having an ordinance outlawing campaign signs came up at the last meeting. He said Maplewood had passed such an ordinance, but it was taken to court, and the court ruled against it. He said they had checked other cities in the metropolitan area, and no one else has such an ordinance. Chairman Fitzpatrick said our ordinance controlling campaign signs seems to work quite well. Chairman Fitzpatrick said it was a little late in the meeting but he did want to welcome Mr. Langenfeld as an ex-officio member of the Planning Commission. The other members joined in this welcome. Mr. Langenfeld asked if he�coul.d vote on the-receiving of minutes or on any motions. Mr. Fitzpatrick said he didn't think he cou�.d, but he should enter into all the discussions, and his comments would be taken into consideration when the motions were made. 6. WORKSHOP MEETINGS Mr. Clark said the rectular workshop meeting Planning Commission would have their = on December 9, 1974. This was tentativel�r � �` /, � ^ Plannin Commission Meeting - December 4, 1974 Pa e 15 set to be held at the General Television offices. The regularly scheduled meeting of December l8th would be a workshop meeting, also, because there was only one scheduled item for this meeting. Mr. Harris asked Mr. C�ark if he had gatten a clarificatian of the open meeting ouncil afterathesfirsthofetheuyeabe a policy established by the C ADJOURNMENT: � MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindblad, that they adjourn. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, Chairman Fitzpatrick declared the Planning Commission meeting of December 4, 1974 adjourned at 10:05 P.M. Resp�ctfully submitted, ,.�..�-r�.�7"'; ,z.�j,���rr% Dorothy Ev" son, SecrEtary �� . r _ �.�a .. . ....... . ..... . . ....__.... .... .. _ . � .. . ... ..... _------ -,_..�....�r.. �c �Meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairman Blair. MGMBfiRS PRESEN'T: Blair, Calda�ell, Harris, Peterson, ti9agar � OTHGRS PRESEI�T: Curt Dahlberg, 205 Rice Creek Boulevard, Fridley, 784-5188, Park Foreman Clifford Ash, 460 Rice Creek Boulevard, Fridley, 784-5564, H.A.F. R�Uert Olmstead, 6S50.7th Street N.E., Fridley, 560--2787, H.A.F. President Don Ho�aard, 234 biercury Drive N.E., Fridley, 560=2114, Hockey 0£ficial Charles Kasick, 7361 Concerto Curve N.E., Fridley, 786-2345, Department Supervisor Paul Broi�m, Director of Parks and Recreation Departme�rt Judy lvyatt, Secretary to the Commission MOTIDN by B.�cwc, �seea►ided by Glagan �a a�nnove �11e M,i.nc�,te� a{� �he PcvcFr� and Ree�c:ea�.v►2 C�rnm�.3�.vn �{e�ti.�ig, da�ed Sep��nbe�c 23, 1974. Tl1e ma�,i.a�1 ea�vc,t.ed. . H . A . F'. Mr. Broti,m introduced Messrs. Bob Olmstead and Cliff Ash from the Hockey Association. h1r. Olmstead stated that they were there to discuss several problems �xegarding hockey before the season starts. He said that one of the things they were concerned with was having the house league officials registered with M.A.H.A. Mr. J31air stated t}iat ]le felt that a clinic should Ue held for the officials, as �there are different rules bet�,�een b4.A.�I.A. and Ii.A.I�. Mr. �9agar asked how the rules differed and A1r. Ash replied that they vary. r4r. Peterson said we should tell the kids that next year there will be a clinic and they have to attend. h4r. Kasick said that it was too late to take the test now. He said that it took 6- 8 weeks to get the test taken care of. T1r. Bro�4�n mentioned.that the test was not mandatory, but that a good percentage of the officials joined on their own. hir.. Ash explained tliat it took as long as the kid wanted it to; it could •be as short as ttilo weeks. Mr. Brown stated that we have all the applications ir. our office. Mr. Olmstead said that they k�ere wondering if it would be possible for them to take the test so tha� everyone knows the rules they are under. Mr: Ash said that t}ie reason tliis is a good idea is because some of the referees go by high scliool rules, othei•s by A.H.L. and some uilder h1.A.H.A. , and tlie rules are different. He said that they felt the best way to be sure that they had consistent referecing woulci be if all tl�e fellows took the I�1.A.}l.A. test and are registered. lie said that it only cost $5.00. Mr. Harris said that actually it is the A.fI.A. test. Mr. Brown replied that it was done through t�1.A.H.A. h1r. Peterson said that he felt the Parks and Recreation Department would be puttinb Lhemselves into a bind if they would require certifica.tion this year, due to the latencss of thc season. 1lc asked t�9r. Brown what he thought of telling the kids thi.s year that they ►.�ould h:rve to attend a clinic or they wouldn!t be allowed to referee, anci work toward certiiication for next yea.r. Mr. Brown felt that thi.s woulcl l�e a good idca. Ile said tliat P1r. Ilo►vard or tlie }lockey Association could put � on a clinic. He saia that if you tell them they should or must attend, they usually xespond. He said you have to pick a goocl time, too, iie said thcse ki�is have trouble �etti�lg to a session at night, and Saturdays tliey are usually working at b9acDonalds, etc. ..;....,-�� .,f rt,P Parks � Recreation Commission b9eeting, November 25, 1974 Page 2 �`ll)s4�.... _"" _ _._ - .. /1 Mr. Blair mentianed that we have a copy of the test. He said that at the .,linic they go through the test and the book a1so. He said that then next year we can have the kids go through the certification process. T4r. Peterson asked hir. Olmstead if he felt that this would be satisfactory, because of the time of the season now. Mr. Olmstead saici that he could see that this might Ue a problem but that they are not iust worried about this year. That would be fine to get it straiglitened out by next year. MOTTO�V by Pe,te�usa►2, �secviided 6� Mn. tlatvu� �(iat �lie �.vicee,tvn, Mjc. }3n�ww, and h4n.. �.ern��ead �e.t a date Uvn a.?.e hau�e �2ea�ue ne��c.�e�s �a a,tiev�d a mee.ti.ng; �ha� �62ey n�ws� a�te�ld a rne�t.i.�ig �.�2 vnd�c �a ne�en.ee titi a��� �iacu�e �h.i.3 ye.cUc, wi.th ce�i��-- cQ,�i,�n �on �hc 1 R75-76 .aecvsv�l. Tt1e mv�,i.vt2 ec����-i-e-d• D4r. Harris stated that as long as we are going to do this he �elt that those who wish to take tlie test may do so. He said that i� it's not available to get the certification on the day they referee they've got the fixst of January or February to get it taken care of. :b9r. Peterson said that at least �,te will have set up a two sL-age requirement so thlt the kids �ti�ill kno�,r wh.at the requirements are. They'll knoi,r that they.have to attend a clinic this year and be certified next year. � b1r. Blair asked if there k�as any further discussion. Mr. Kasick asked if this would be publicized in the Fridley Swz. A1x. Bro��n replied that it would be. Mx. Olmstead was asked to pass the word around also. ^ Mr. tiVagar asked ho�a many house games were scheduled indoors. Mr. Olmstead ,eplied that it will vary because they had it all laid out and then they lost 51 hours at Northland with the second sheet of ice. He said that they are going to give t}iem some practice time and the rest of the indoor ice time will be for - their games. He said a ballpark £igure of any�ahere £rom 2 to 4: games will be for eacli team. � Mr. Olmstead also brought up the fact that they are concerned about the goali.e equipment for the te�uns. He said that there miglit be two games in a ro�a ►vhere they were lucky enough to get a block of two hours, but it might be the same Saturday at another arena, He sai.d that the t�ao sets of goalie eauipment might not stretcll too far. He said that of course they rwi into size difference ther.e also. It might be a Squirt and it might be a Bantam. Mr. Blair asked D4r. �3rown if he would have any problem supplying the Hockey Association with goalie equipment at Victory Memorial Arena. h9x. Brown replied that t}rere is a problem in that we only have so many sets of eauipment, and when there is a duplication during the season, it becomes almost impossible to service t�ao rinks at fihe samc liour. He said tllen he would have to pull equip- ment irom some rink that maybe a team is practicing on and then they're pro- viding no boalie equipment. Mr. Blair askcd Mr. Olmstead if these games were played on the w�ekend. hfr. Olmsteacl replied that most of. them tiaould be, but not all. /� 64r. Brown said that basically the equipn�ent is for the rink, not the practice, we are supposed to have a set for every cage. He said that the 8 �, Minutes of the Parks $ Recreation Commission A4eeting, November 25, 1974 Page 3 majority of the use of the rink is for practice, however. He said this is where /�'`�ethe kids try out the goalie equipment, when they are alone and not in front of the coach. • .�.� � Mr. Brown asked Mr. Olmstead if this duplication will happen very often and Mr. Olmstead replied tliat it wouldn't be t}iat often. tfe said that they could help themselves a little in obtaining some spare goalie sets. A4r. Blair asked r9r. Olmstead to get in toucl� with Paul if there is a conflict. Mr. Peterson asked Mr. Olmstead if he could arrange the schedule so that he ��ould have two sets of the same age Uracket pla�ring at the same time xather than 4 sets for fhe same bracket. Mr. Olmstead indicated that this could be arranged. Mr. Bxown asked A4r. Olmstead basically what they wanted the City to do for them. Mr. Olmstead replied that they needed to knotiti� what they could plan on for suxe. D4r. Brown told him that we had four sets of goalie equipment. bir. Olm- stead said he �,�ould like to be able to come and pick it up �ahen he needed it and then drop it off. He said that they did that a fe�a times last year. Mr.�Brow�i mentioned that tliat was probably during tlie playoffs. Mr. Brown said they would lihe to provide four sets of goalie equipment but that it is a1Z at the xinks. tie said that any extra they may have had was at the Commons and that'i��as only one or two sets at the most. fie said that otherwise there was one set for each cage, at the rinks . rir. Bro�an said t}lat they taould gladly work it out tirith D4r. Olmstead as best they can. T""�� . Mr. Ash mentioned that if they lose the ice at one arena a�ld have to move to another, they can't take the equipment with them, therefore they..have no equip- ment to use. (the right size) He said this had happened several times last year. A9r. Brown explained that the City cannot provide a set of each size for each rink, He said that the tVarming House Attendants have strict orders not to give out the goalie equipment to anyone. Mr. Olmstead asked A�ir. Brown if each of the five Directors would be able to have so�ne kind oi a card signed by rir. Bro���n, �ahich would enable them to sign out a goal set. Mr. Brown replied that lie ���ould like to get four sets of equipment ancl keep it at City 1-Iall to be checked out. He said that it wouldn't necessarily have to be the Directors. He said that the Directors could have control of the cards to insure that the equipment was brought back each time. The equipment would have to be back the following day. A9r. Olmstead brought up anotlier nroUlem. He explained that if there is a cancelled house league game on Saturday and the team would like to make it up on hlonday, and time is of the essence, they would like permission to call the head referee and have it rescheduled. Mr. Ash explained an instance would be when it was too colcl to play on Saturelay aiid t}iey had practice time on I�Ionday, they �aould be usi�tg their own time a��yway. Hc said tliat if they have to �aait until blonclay to contact anyone to get xeferees, etc. it gets to be too�late, and it ►aould be much more convenient if the llirector could reschedule the game without taking somcone else's ice. fie could then get in touch witli Don }loward �n the week�nd, who in turn would get the referees lined up for D1onday, and this � Minutes of the Parks F; Recreation Commission hleeting, November 25, 1974 Page 4 �� / �would speed things up much better. He explained that when you get to the end of 'the season and the ice starts going,-you need to get the games in as quickly as possible. They would be using their o�vn ice only of course. They would not be taking any ai,ay from anyone, r4r. Brown suggested L-hat we have a set policy on this, and then they won't have to contact anyone. At this point Mr. Don Hok=ard arrived at the meeting. Mr. Brawn advised Mr. Ho<<�ard that they �aere discussing the possiUility of the }I.A.P. Directors being able to reschedule cancelled games witllout having to get in touch �tirith him, because sometimes it takes l0 to 14 days to get the game � rescheduled, because of the w�y we handle it. He said that we were mentioning for example, i,}Ier.e a tearn �aould lose a game on Saturday and would like to play on Monday. He said they were recon�mending a sefi policy. Mr. Olmstead said that basically the way it would work would be that generally they can get in touch with llon Howard withi�l an hour or two, and if he could provide the officials, they could reschedule the game and get in touch with the coac}ies riglit away. He felt the key was �,hetlier or not h1r. Ho�aard could provi.de the officials. Mr. Olmstead asked that they be ai�le to have the Director in each Division contact Don I-io�vard and take it from there. Mr. Hoiaard said they could reschedule on the phone. Chuck Kasick asked if the girls were going to play broomball at Flanery again and also at Rice Creek this year, He also t,�anted to kno�� if it was going to be on Saturday or at night. Bob Olmstead replied that he had scheduled it ��entatively at both places for practice and games. N�r. Kasick said that the gixls get cold and he would prefer for them to play there, tahere there was a war�ning house. Also he felt that it was safer for skaters not to play on broom- Uall ice. h9r Olmstead replied that he could schedule all the games at Flanery with no problem. , Mrs. CaldiaelT asked if the second practice spot could be where there is a � warniing house. Mr. Olmstead said that he had talked to Helen Byrne and she didn't seem too concerned about the girls not having a warming house. Mrs. Cald�aell stated tliat she felt the girls and boys slioulcl have equal facilities. Mr. Kasick stated that for the boys' safety, the girls should only be at Flanery. He said they don't need to go to any other place. 64r. Harris mentioned the fact that thcre is no warming house Uecause there is no building at Rice Creek School for this purpose. He said there are some construction building shacks, whic}i could be available for a warming house. He saici that he would look into tliis and see what he could do about getting us one. .LC. E J�11�JENANCE AND FLQODING SCHEDUL� Mr. Olrnstead asked if, in oxder to get real good ice, it would be possible t� flood at night, wllen it needs to be built up. - Mr. Blair stated that last year we flooded cluring the day. Mr. Da}ilberg �explained that our big�est problem was the Christmas rain, He said that we � • �Q � Tlinutes of the Parks �; Recreation Commission A9eeting, November 25; 1974 Page 5 have the same crew that we have had for the last 8 years, so �t couldn�t be �la�ned on tlie personnel cliange in the crew, it was the bad weather. He said that the Christmas rain took away the base, plus the fact that we are gaining one or two rinks each year. He said that we are slo�,�ly falling further and further behind. Mr. Broti�n mentioned that the City Council said three years ago that there was too much overtime in the Parks Department and so in the wintertime to find another �aay to do it. He continued that they therefore scheduled these men on a rotating basis and they don't even have the pleasure o£ a normal weeke�id. Mr. Harris said tliat he felt that barring weather, etc. tlle ice is not as good if you don't have a program of night flooding. He said that he had been over t}�ere at 3:00 in the afternoon when they were floodi�ig, and it was absolu- tely a���aste of time with tlle temperature at 30° _.32°. He said it would be al- rigl�t if you could keep everybody off the ice for another 2-3 hours until it had a chance to set up. Mr. Dahlberg said t11at the City of Bloomington has 80 pieces of ice;_and they flood them in 5 hours using tanker trucks. He said using hoses.is just too slow and time consuming. He said that ���e should consider updating our equipment. He said that last year Bloomington had 8 two-man cret��s and the best they could do in an 8 hour day �aas about 16 pieces of ice. He said that they have since bought a truck and they cover 25 pieces of ice with two men. - - /, Mr. Harris asked if that meant he could flood from 7 p.m. to 11 p.m. every .iight and have it all done with one<piece of equipment. Mr. Dahlberg repli�ed that if you axe concerned about the cost, this is a piece of equipment that would probably pay for itself in the long xun. ' � Mr. DalilUerg said that the way Bloomington sold thea.r Council on buying �ihe equipment wlien t}iey converted 8 years ago, was to run a study on it (and they are still continuing the studies). He said it cost them 8 years ago $5.00/1000 gallons of water (this is with the hose carrying method); as o£ last year, with labor costs going up, etc., theyr were dowii to $1.50/1.0�0, p'us they have increased their rinks. He said that they have new equipment ordered, and they hope to get it down to $1.OU/1000 galloiis, which is putting a lot of water down with a minimum amount of inen. Mr. Bro�an mentioned the fact that they only have 8 men in Bloomington and they have 80 rinks, and tiiey use multi-shifts. Mr. Iiarris meiltioned that we used to flood at nig]Zt a few years ago. r4r. Brown said that we �aere in overtime then. He said t}ie men reported to the garage at 9:00 p.ni. �and by Lhe time they got out on a rink it was �:30 p.m., then they went accordingly up to 12:00 midnight or 1:00 a.m. Mr, t9agar said that flooding in the daytime is foolish. He said you can't start flooding if it is liot. � h9r. Peterson said t11at lie is opposed to daytime flooding. He said the ice has deteriorated sincc daytime flooding was started. � �� ' .�� Minutes of the Parks F, Recreation Commission Aleetin�, November 25, 1974 Page 6 � � � h1rs. Caldwell asked if we shouldn't try to have a second shift of two men who flood at night. h9r. Dahlberg replied that ttiva men isn't suff.icient. He said that you need to have four. Mr. ti+lagar said that he would like to see the flooding done at night. Mr. Dahlberg pointed out that when you do split tlie cre��s you cut dotian on your ef- ficiency. He said that they still only have so many men to do the,work and you're talking ice conditions and i.e're talking volume. 11e explained that with the present setup they have they still can't l:eep up wii.h them 100%. He said that by cutting the crew in half and putting them on night shift still doesn't give you more coverage, you're still falling behind. Mr. Peterson said that it gave you more efficie�it coverage because your flooding is more effective. He said that when you flood in the daytime and it's not effective, you haven't accomplished anything for the man hours, so you've spent man hours and accomplished nothing. He said tllat at least you'xe using your man hours most effectively by flooding at night. Mr. Dahlberg replied that they have their other repairs to co�itend with at the same time. He said that tliey have goalie repairs, lines to paint, etc. �iUT1�N by Glccsan., aeear�ded 6y Ha�v�i�s, �ha,t �6�ey n�eE��.du.�e �6�e mev� (everi ti� � .�t, �he iU6zo.�e e.�ee��J .i� �a�s�,�b.�e, �o �lia,t �hey eav� b.Cavd a� vt.i.gl�,i, �.{� .i� -us ag}c.eea6.Ee u�.i,tt� �he uv�i.vv� evn�c.ae,t. 7"h2 mv�'.c:.v�ti ecuvr,i.ed. Mr. Harris stated that lie thought they should go ahead with the program even �f they have to pay overtime. GIRLS FLAG F00'I'BALL Mr. Chuck Kasick ►��as there to discuss some problems he has in regards to the girls flag football program. He stated that first of all, he felt the peopl.e should not have ta ca11 the City Council ahout any problems that the Park Board lias. 'Iie said that this is in regard to the girls. He said that any time a referee doesn't go according to the people's wishes, a councilman is called, who is turn ca11s T11e City Administration, and then there is a big hassle, � He said that last year he lost a good official ti�ho was oheying the rules, and the City Council ptrt pressure on tlle Park Board to get rid of him, whic•h he felt ti�as wrong. He said that thc official was from outside the City and could care less who won the game. 1-ie said that he was obeying the rules but that wasn't good enoug}i for the people. Mr. Kasick said that the referees that we had this year, in his estimation, were excellent. He said that they occasionally made some blunders, but for the most part did an excellent job. He said that we are not' paying for high school or college referees, but referees from our oi�i� City. D1r. Kasick said that Don Blair will no longer referee girls flag ball, and he doesn't Ulame him. I�e said that he was standing on the siaelines and ]le listeneci /+tto some of these people, aiid for a test he woulcl �oad them, such as thc referee would do something ancl they would ask b9r. Kasick why he threw thc flag, and bir. Kasick would tell them it was for tri�ping, when in actuality the play �vas for off- sieles somewhcrc else, and t}�e people waul�l go wild. 11c said thc men we;�t wilcl too, Uccause tl�cy don't know the xules. }!e said he haci nevcr heard such cominotion in his life and the parents dicln't kno�a tivhzt tliey wcre talking abaut. 0 ..:.,,,+�� .,f th� Parks Recreation Commission Meeting November 25, 1974 Page 7 Mr. Kasick said that when they set up this program three years ago, he made it so that the girls could understand the game, so that �ahen they did go up to high /,school they would know what they were doing. He said we need to get the parents to understand the rules. �Dir. Bro�tim stated that we were cancerned here with the rules. Mr. Peterson said that if the F.Y.F.A. is going to be sponsoring it and there are pr.oblems, then Lhose who are responsible in F.Y.F.A. should be appearing in front of the Commission too, in terms of finding out what the problems are and taking care of them. D1r. lioward sai.d that he felt the important t�ing was to run a clinic and you make it mandatory for your coaches and officials to be there. Mr. Brown said that you need to get a copy of all the rules to all the kids and they can take them home to their parents to read. He felt that was the problem. Mr. Kasiek sta.ted that three years ago �ahen he started this program, the only thing the P.Y.F.A. did was to back him with money. He said he dici most of his �ti*o�k with A9r. Brown. He said that this year it was turned over to the Association and he has never seen so many problems. He said that he, as a citizen, would like to have the Parl% Board let tl�e City Council kno►a about the problems. 1�4r. Brown mentioned that when you do have a city administration and council type major situation, you've got these particular inputs. People aren't going to be liappy with everything and they'll go to the City Cowicil and they're goirig to resj�ond, because they're elected Uy the people, and whether we agree or not, they have t]Ze rigllt to do that. Mrs. Caldwell asked if it would be advisable to have a clinic on Saturday for �the parents. Mr. Kasick explained to her that it is difficult to�get the parents to bring their kids to the game. b1r. Brown said t}iat we hope to reach the parents by giving a copy of the rules to the girls, who in turn can take it home to their pa.rents to xead. . SKI TOURING _ . h4r. Brown mentioned that all we have in regards to this is a brochure which T4x. Blair had given him, on cross country skiing. I-ie said that he had been unable, as yet, to get in touch with the gentleman in charge. A9r. Blair said that if the � nature center is developed; this gentleman is interested in setti_ng up ski touring and cross country skiin�. Mr. Brown said that ski touring or snow shoein� would be done because this is in the rcalm of where Lhe nature center would be developed in North Park, along wi.th a few other parks we have. He said that Dr. Huff will merely be the implementation towards the program, whether it appeaxs in our Uulletin or not. Hc said that in our bulletin it'll show interpretation once he gets it all set up. Mrs. Cald�vell said that slie liked the idea of having the ski touring under Dr. }iuff's auspices. Shc said that one thiTig she liked was the fact t]Zat t)lis is more of a frce kind of thing; «ithout all the registration. She liked the idca of them just going if iL is t}�e rig}it kind of clay for this kind of skii�lg and Dr. Iiufi is available. She would like them to bc aUle to do it i�itliout rcgistering t1lr.ee weeks in advance aa�d pzying a registration fee, ctc. She said that she liked that r� wholc conccj�t of a nature center, £ree and loose. She said that if you puL it in this dep�irt_ment tl�en people have to �o dotianstairs and registcr, etc. , and that just gocs against the grai.n for hGr. h1r. Petcrson brou�;ht up the f.act that if tlic peopl c have �o depend on I)r. l�uff heing there, then it isn't free either; then you have to go up thcrc whcn lle is there to interprct it. h1rs. Caldwell rcplied that if. the pro�ram is set,up properly, then you don't really need him ta be there. Mr. Brown ��" I �� �� Minutes of the Parks F; Recreatian Commission Meeting November 25, 1974 Page 8 said that, knowing what a sharp guy llr. Huff is, he feels that Dr. Huff will probably incorporate soine of his tours based around snow shoeing and ski touring. He said it �woulcl all depend on how they develop the area and that is very tentative right now. r1r. Blair commented that he wasn't too concerned about registration but someone would.have to go and lay out the trails aiid maintain them. ED tti'II.i�1ES At�U PLYTtOUTH PARKS h9r. I�ro�an mentioned the fact that we would like to drop Ed tVilmes Park and Plymouth Park, as we do not get too much use there in the winter. � ! 'MOTI�N b� Pe,te,7�sa►�, .aecaKded by Hwvu�, �a dnar� �cvo p�.ece�s vU �.ce �h.i�, w�,wteh, � ncuite.�y �d w,i,�n�e� a�id P.��n�ve.t,t.lz Pahf:� . The ma�:i.v►2 ecvctc.�ed. HARRTS ESTAT�S Mr. Blair asked if there aaere any plans for Harris Estates. Mr. Bro�,m replied that it had been leveled and seeded. He said that the Comprehensive Master Plan calls for an apparatus area and general skating. He said tl�at we don't get much use at Rice Creek right now. Mr. Blair mentioned that he had been approaclied to consider resodding the footbaJ.l field i.nstead of reseeding it. He said the cost would be about $200.00. Mr. Broi�rn said that they are going to pu� in black dirt and fill it 1T1� building up the center and then they will reseed it. A4r. Blair asked if resodding would be better. T9r. Brown replied that in Japan they cover over areas with seed in the ,�round, t}ien put poly over it at night and take it off in the daytime, and the grass really groivs. He said that the Parks Department is going to try it this summer and if that doesn't work, then they will resod it. Mr. Peterson sai.d that he felt it ilould be cheaper to just tell the F.Y.F.A. to lay the sod if we pay for it. Mr. Harris mentioned that he felt it should be sodded and top dressed. INTOXICATING LIQUOR Mr. Blair asked that we put the intoxicating liquor ordinance on the next agenda. ADJOURND4�N'I' - MUTI�N �a adjacvcn �11e mee,t.i.n�r u.t 9:30 �.m. The next regular meeting will bc held on rlonday� DecemUer 23, 1974 at 7:30 p.m., in the Comtnunity Room of Fridley Civic Center. Res ectfully submitted, dy W"� tt, Secr ary to the (:ommission OFFICIAL NOTICE � CITY OF FRIDLEY PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION ' �� i TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: Notice is hereby give thai there will be a Public Hearing of the Planning Commission of the City of Fridley in the City Hall at 6431 University Avenue Northeast on December 18, 1974 in the Council Chamber at 8:00 P.M. for the purpose of: A:request far a Special Use Permit, SP #74-17, by George Walquist, to permit the construction of a building for rust-proofing of automobiles, etc, per Fridley City Code, Section 205.131, A, � 10, in an M-1 'zone (light industrial areas}, to be located on proposed Lot 5, of a new preliminary p1at, P.S. #74-08, by George Walquist, all lying in the South Half of Section 13, T-0, R-24, City of Fridley, County of Anoka, Minnesota. � � Generall.y located 240 feet West of Central Avenue on the North sid� of Rice Creek Road N.E. Anyone desiring to be heard wit� reference to the above matter may be heard at this meeting. � Publish: December �, 1974 December 11, 1974 } �. EDWARD J. FITZPATRICK CHAIRMAN PLANNING COMMISSION .:. � � ' CITY OF rRIDLEY �� 1�1INI�I;SO'1'� TYP� OT� RLQU�ST PLAhNING ANll ZONING F012�4 Rezoniiig � � TIumber �� 7 S�� � . . Special Use � _ __--�—Permi t � , Appi•aval of � ..� � � _ �� �a Preliminary I'l.�t APPI.ICAN1 S SIGN/1TU ZB.._ -�-�� � � `: �T�I'roval of: Address �'z�r> �^-�;'tti'� J�'�� ^ rinal Pl.at Strects or. Tel.eptionc Nwnber �`� ��� � � �U Alley Vacati�tis Othex � PROPERTY Ol'd\E}t' S SIGNn7':)R� � /?�u�z2'--t� �Z-c--- ' Address �Z� '�� tr-� �P-,��L-yK� �� Telephone Nu;nUer. % �' � — �? �� C) a Stxeet Location of Property . Lega.l Description of Propexty `� � � Pxescnt Zoning Classification �}� " � � �xisti��g Use of: Property /�,�r� �•� r . 3� (R � °� Proposed Zoning Classification, Special Use, or other request ,�, ����• ��S '�'3/ ' ' ,�� ,,.�/ /� � " y � �. , ��Cc; Y'i?L� -=�-f%--G' 1 `�.��L�"�, ,r, � �.�7Z�1 GLGt` � _' � �-C.c��1 ' " `% � De cribe bricfly the Typc of Use and Improvement roposed 'Acreage of Property .3/t.� � ��!�2..�� "� � �i . � T . . . . . . � .. Has tlie Presenl: A��plzcant Previously Sought to Rezone, Plat, Obtain a Lot Spli.t, OUtain a Variance or Special Use Permit on the Subject Sitc or Part of It? ' {Vlicn? . a Wl�at was requestcd Fce �ncloscd���—'' Rec. No. �%-�//�2% Uatc riled • Date of IIearing � � ` �'LAttNT.1:� �NC3 zONI21C FOi�M ' 1'AC�: � '�+�j t3�+bQr / � �`'� � . , �"1 � 4uYderafgned underargnds thac: (a) A list of all res�d�nta snd rwnero o� �Yo- � � perty witliin 3G0 fect must b" attAChet� �;�I th£s application. �,, (b) Thls ttppl�.cation raust be �i���:d bY cIl . • ownezs of th� proper[y� o� �n e�p��n�seic�*� . Eiven why thia ia not the cp��. (c) Responsfbility �or esny aeiect iq th� �ro� � eceding§ xesuT.tin�; fron the failure tc� i�.F�r • � the nK�nea ond pddre�ve� of t�1T� Xesici�nt�� .. nnd pioperty G.ar�eYb •of prope�ty ���f��,a� ;w;� � feet of the pro��rGy f�n queati�n, b�lo��;� ' . . to Che undersi�,ned. : �.�p�d4��� end Ganera of �'roperCX �aithin 30� fcet:� : �'F.RSC�t:S ADDRESS • � • . �� �� _ �� . . . � �� .�il �` • � � . . �. . �. �t;�tc1� a� proposed property and structure c�uat be dr�F�n on the back o� th�a ��� p� �Gcached� shocrin� the followin�; 1. Soi�th Direction Z. L!}CACS061 af F'�roposEd SeructurQ ca Y��. 3. Ai.c�ensi,ons af pro�srty� , ropo�e�ci ' �tre�cture� �nd �ront and side �c°L«t�e����. . 4. Stre�� lt�c�es � S. LocEtion �nd use of edjacent exi&Ci�� t buildin�s (�ithin �00 �'eet) . ' �� 4ader�t�ned hcreby dEClares that all the facta and represencutfor�a otate� �p �' tllt.� ppplication a.e truQ acz� correct. � � i - � - . C�J � . . F�� ���-��' % � � S � GlyA l (��E--'t*�'r<° � �- � >,�G �''�It � , � � (APM,ICA2d')'��`�� � . . . . . . . � . � . ... . � � . . � . . {' . . � . M, � s�. w� 7i' �r H n�r � ��rovcd D�nied Sy thc ;a�ad n� Qp�e�b� 6ub��ct .CO the I�ollo�ina Condition�; ' � � d:�+� �pptrovod I�ni�d � by ehe Plannin� Ccxx�io�ion on ^ �ub�4�t Cv the 1;o11aUinF Conditions: �" �Co �`,npravcd Denied _ by the Counctl on _ y1cl�s�ct ta thc FP11o��i�g Cun�ition�: � � dAtQ � � •� �'pxr� i'C ?,�0 � • � , . � T. . . . . . . . . . _ . I�'. . . � . � . SP #74-17 GEORGE WALQUIST Per Fridley City Code, � Section 205.131 A, 10 MAILING LIST �� Planning Commission 12/3/74 George Walquist ? Max Soliterman 4230 Central Avenue N.E. 25 University Avenue N.E. I, Minneapolis, Mn 55421 . Minneapolis, Mn 55414 � . Mr. & Mrs. Fredrick Lewis 6361 Pierce Street N.E. Fridley 55432 Mr. &Mrs. Wilber Harris 6400 Central Avenue N.E. Fridley, Mn 55432 Mr. & Mrs. Leonard Coch�an Star Rdute Box 2A Isle, Mn 56342 Harold N. Cruezer 6355 Pieree Street'N.E. - ! Fridley, Mn 55432 Mr. & Mrs. Duane Guse � 6345 Pierce Street N.E. � Fridley, Mn 55432 Mr. & Mrs. Ronald Slater 6335 Pierce Street N.E. • Fridley 55432 Cost�_& Barbara Nichols 6325 Pierce Street N.E. Fridley, 55432 Mr. & Mrs. Gary BZume � 6315 Pierce Street NE.. j . Fridley 55432 � Beatrice Laubach ', 6336 Pierce Street N.E. � I Fridley, Mn 55432 Mr. & Mrs. Henry Peterson 6312 Pierce Street N.E. Fridley 55432 Lillian A. Clark 1128 63rd Avenue N.E. �"'\ Fridley, Mn 55432 William F. 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