PL 04/23/1975 - 31184��
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION P�EETING APRIL 23, 1975 • PAGE 1
CAL.L TO ORDER:
Chairman Harris called the meeting to order at 8:05 P.M.
RQLL CALL:
Members Present: Meissner, Lindblad, Harris, Drigans �
Members Absent: Peterson
Others Present: James Langenfeld, Ex-officio Member
Darrel Clark, Community Development Administrator
APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: APRIL 9, 1975
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindblad, :�zat the Planning Commission approve
their minutes of the Apri1 9, 1975 meeting as written. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting
aye, the motion carried unanimously. '
RECEIVE BUILDZNG STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTROL SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES::APRIL 10, 1975:
Mr. Lindblad said there had been several changes in the proposal by W. R. Stephens
for a new and used car dealership, but �e thought these should be taken up at the
time of the consideration of the Speci�l Use Permit.
,-,�1 MOTION by Lindblad, seconded by Drigans, ihat the P2anning Commission receive
the minutes of the Building 5tandards-Design Control Subcommittee meeting of Apri1
10, 1975. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
RECEIVE BOARD OF APPEALS SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES:_.APRIL 15, 1975
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Commission receive
ihe minutes of the Board of Appeals Subcommittee meeting of Apri1 15, 1975.
Mr. Drigans said that on page 8 of these minutes, there uaas a motion asking an
interpretation of the code. He said he had received this interpreta�tip� and it was
that a variance could not be granted to allow a use that was�specifically excluded
in a certain zoning.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, a1.Z voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
1. CONTINUED: PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING RE UEST, ZOA #75-02, BY WYMAN SMITH, ATTORNEY
FOR RICHARD POVLITZKI AND THC FRIDLEY FRONTIER CLUB: To rezone f rom C-1 local
business areas to C-2 general business areas , Lot 1, Block 1, Walnut Addition,
to bring the existing use of the property into a uses permitted category of the
City Zoning Code, the same being 7365 Central Avenue N.E.
Public Hearing open,
Mr. Richard Povlitzki and his attorney, Mark Haggerty were present.
-�'"`'� Mr. Haggerty said that what he had said at the April 9, 1975 Planning Commission
meeting was still the same, but he would like to add some addi�ional comments. He
said it had been brought to his attention that one of the primary concerns on this
property was the parking. He said that on the plan drawn up by the City staff, there
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Planning Commission Meeting April 23, 1975 Page 2
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were approximately 64 parking stalls. Unde� the present City Code, they need a ratio
of 4 to 1 which was one stall for each 4 occupants. He said that Mr. Povlitzki in
his remodeling plans, has proposed a seating capacity of 287. He said the 64 stalls
would only allow a seating capacity of 256. He said they proposed at this time, in
order to obtain the rezoning and trying to get a liquor license, that they would
purchase or rent property within 500 feet of the Frontier Club, possibly even just
south of this property, so the ratio would be brought up to a three to one ratio.
Another alternative would be to reduce the seating capacity. He said that either
way would comply with the liquor ordinance that was being proposed by the City Council.
Mr. Haggert� said he was asking 'the Planning.Commission to recommend approval
of the rezoning request so this long established business could comply with the zoning
code. `
' MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Commission close
the Public Hearing on the rezoning request, ZOA #75-02, by Wyman Smith, attar•,ey for
Richard Povlitzki and the Frontier Club at 8:15 P.M. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting
i
aye, the motion carried unanimously. �
�
Mr. Drigans said he had looked at this facility and had taken into consideration
• the problems they have had. He said-he was concerned about the parking, and the
problems they have had outside the building. He said that the two complaints we have
had, had nothing to do with the operation of this business on the inside of the Frontier
Club. He continued, that this was an established business and had been there for
�,,.� many, many years, and although the ownership has changed many times, the business h�s �
stayed basically the same. He said the present owner has been there many years. He ;
felt that if this was a new facility, he would not recommend that this area be rezoned
for this.use. He said this property was already in a commercial zone, and the zoning ,
change would still be a commercial zone and that whether this was classi�°ied as a
local business area or a general business area, that wouldn't change the clientele
coming to this establishment.
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Cormni.ssion recommend
to the Council, approval of the rezoninq request, ZOA #75-02, by Wyman Smith, Attorney
for Richard Povlitzki and the Fridley Frontier C1ub, to rezone from C-1 (Iocal business
areas).to C-2 (general business areas),Lot 1, B1ock 1, Walnut Addition, to bring the
existing use of the property into a uses permitted category of the City Zoning Code,
the same being 7365 Central Avenue N.E., with the stipvlations that adequate parking
be provided and the landscaping and lighting plan be reviewed by the Building Standards-
Design Control Subcommittee. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried
unanimously.
Z. CONiINUED• PUBLIC HEARING• REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #75-02, gY
WYMAN SMITH, ATTORNEY FOR W. R. STEPHENS, JR: To permit the sale of new and
used cars, per Fridley City Code, Section 205.101, (3, B) and (3, G) in a C-2S
zone (general shopping areas) to be located on Lot•1, Block 1, Pe�rson's Second
Addition, the same being 7701 East River Road N.E.
Public Hearing open.
'"�� Mark Haggerty, Attorney, and W. R. Stephens, and Roland Benjamin were present.
MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Commission receive
the minutes of the Environmental Quality Commission.meeting of Apri1 15, 1975. Upon
a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975� Page 3 _
Mr. Haggerty said they had been making changes on their proposal right up
� to the beginning of this meeting, so he would like to confer with his client bef,ore
�e made his presenta�ion. He said he thought Mr. Clark could explain some of the
� revisions in the plan.
�
Mr. Clark said that this had been before both the Environmental Quality
Commission and the Building Standards-Design Control Subcommittee since the Planning
Commission had seen this proposal. lie said that Building Standards made several
revisions to the proposal, including revising the plan for the front of the building
and the parking areas. He said that some of the City staff and representatives of
W. R. Stephens had met that morning, and afterwards they both went back and drew up
a plan on what had been discussed. He said that both plans had been brought to
this meeting and were basically the same with a display area in the front of the
building. The main difference in the two plans was that the City was proposing a
free standing pylon sign, which might be difficult to install because of the overhead
wires. Mr. Clark presented the design for pylon signs as drawn by the City staff.
He continued tha+. there had been a couple of inquiries from the petitioner in regard
to the stipulations of Bui1ding Standards. One of the stipulations was that the
existi;ng concrete slab in front of the building be cut in a wedge shape. The petitioner
said that because of the thickness of this slab, he would rather not cut it, and
would rather limit the number of cars that could be-parked on the slab and use redwood
planters two feet high, in this area to add to the landscapi.ng. He said the other
question the petitioner had was on the stipulation by the Environmental Quality CommisA
sion t�at there be no access to East River Road f rom this property. Mr. Clark said
that in the discussion two weeks ago, it was brought out that when this property was
platted, there was one access given to the two C-2S lots, the one the petitioner wanted
to use and the lot to the North. The plan shown has the driveway centered on the
property line so there would be one access for the two lots. Mr. Clark said they
also discussed many types of lighting plans and the various types of fixtures that
were available. He said that all the lights would be totally directional.
Mr. Harris asked that if �'che pylon sign couldn't go under the overhead electrical
wires, where could it go? Mr. Clark said that a pylon sign could p�obably be used,
but not at the height shown. He said the proposed sign was limited to 25 feet by the
City Code. Mr. Lindblad said that he remembered from previous discussion thai no light
or sign could be over 20 feet in height, because of these overhead wires. Mr. Clark .
said the petitioner would like to have a wa11 sign and were told that 'this would. -
have to be located on the warehouse portion of the building instead of the snow room,
and the �etters could only be 2 1/2 to 3 fee� in height. •
Mr. H�ggerty said he thought Mr. Clark had answered some of the questions that
were asked at the April 9th meeting on the appearance, lighting and landscaping for
this proposal. He said he would like Mr. Herb Bacon of Bacon's Electric to explain
how the lighting has been worked out for this proposal. He said the lights would
be 25 feet in height instead of 20 feet as mentianed at the last meeting, but they
were reducing the candle power.
� Mr. Bacon explained where the lights would be located and said they would be
directional and adjustable so there would be no lights shining into the traffic on
East River Road or into the residences across the street. Mr. Bacon had a brochure
showing the type of lights that would be used. �
�. Mr. Langenfeld said he would like to read the stipulations recommended by the
Environmental Quality Commission on this request. They were:
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Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975. Paqe 4 '
1. Noise levels must meet the�standards set down in Zoning Ordinance No. 205.112.
�� � 2. Light levels on a residential property after 9:00 P.M. shall not exceed that
. proposed by�a standard 250 watt mercury vapor lamp, located 100 feet from such
a residential property.
3. No entranceway or exit shall be established or used on the property along
East River Road.
4. We urge that the developers consider the recommendations of the affected�
residents.
5. The developer consider eliminating the proposed pole sign for aesthetic
reasons.
Mr. Langenfeld said that some of these stipulations had already been discussed
at this meeting. .
Mr. Drigans asked how the Environmental Quality Commission came up with the
specifications for the second stipulation? Mr. Langenfeld said those were the
requirements for street lights in resident�al areas.
Mr. Haggerty asked Mr. Bacon if he could relate candle�power to 250 watt mercury
. vapor lamps. Mr. Bacon said the security lights were only 175 watts and were only on
the building, so those were well below the standards set. Mr. Haggerty said it had
been stated before that this establishment would be open four nights, Monday through
,� Thursday, until 9:00, Friday and Saturday they would close at 6:00, and Sunday they
would be closed, so that with daylight saving time, the main lights wouldn't be on
that much. Mr. Haggerty continued that as far as the noise levels, he thought the
�� traffic on East River Road would generate enough noise so that you wouldn't hear any
noise from this establishment.
Mr. Haggerty said they would only use as many security lights as they would
. need for police protection and for security purposes.
� Mr. Clark said he thought it should be mentioned that the two Committees who
reviewed this plan didn't agree on the sign. One committee said they didn't like the
wall sign, put it on a pole,.and the other comrnittee said they didn't like the pole
sign, put it on the wall.
Mr. Haggerty said the recommendation from Mr. Clark's office was to have the
pylon sign. Mr. Haggerty said there were power poles on this property and also a
very deep drainage ditch along East River Road and they would have to stay away from
these areas with a pylon sign. He said a pylon sigh such as was proposed would cost
approximately $10,000. and that Mr. Stephens was already investing around $100,000
in this property and did not want to spend this much for a pylon sign. He said that
also, in their franchise for a Datsun dealership, it states that they have to have a
•- particular sign, and a pylon sign would not meet the franchise requirements. They
say that each one of the letters has to be six by six, and the anly way they could
meet that requirement was to have a wall sign on the building. He said there was
a smal•1 sign in existance along 77th Way in the southwest corner of the lot. They
would like to keep that sign. There was another small sign on the driveway area of
'1 this property on East River Road, and that sign will be removed.
Mr. Haggerty said there would be 90 parking stalls on this piece of property.
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Planning Commission Meetinq - April 23, 1975 � Page 5
He said he didn't think they would need that many.parking stalls to begin with, and
�'i if they got too many cars on the lot they would use auxilliary parking in some other
are�;. We will not congest this area with too many automobiles. The ninety stalls do
not include tre parking space inside the building. He said that Building Standards
had requested that they have slats all along the back fence. He said that at the
present time there was a fence that went along the.property line for Barry Blower,
and for security reasons, we wish to leave this fence as an open chain link fence.
He said there was also a proposal to put in another fence that would run parallel
with East River Road, and this fence be a solid decorative fence. He said this would
cause security problems also, because someone could go behind this solid fence and
strip a car in a matter of minutes. Mr. Stephens presented a material, a treated
metal panel, that they proposed to put in this fence in a sort of checkerboard pattern,
that would alternate open spaces with this material. It would give the appearance of
a solid fence, but it would be open enough to satisfy security. Mr. Stephens said
a solid fence could create security problems for Barry Blower also.
Mr. Haggerty said he thought'.ihis answere� the questions that were raised at,the
last meeting, and he would be glad to answer any additional questions.
Mr. Lindblad, Chairman of Building Standards, said he was satisfied that there
be some decorative treatment to the fence that ran parallel to East River Road, and
he didn't remember that they asked the chain link fence on the property line to be
slatted. He said he wasn't personally in favor of slatting, becaus� it only looked
good for such a short time. He would be willing to agree that this fenc� be a plain
chain link fence. Mr. Haggerty said the main concern was security.
!�j Mr. Stephens said that a Datsun deale'rship was required to have a standard sign.
He.said this sign would be placed on the building, which would put it about 150 feet
to 175 feet from East River Road and it would be completely illuminated from behind
.the sign. It would not be a neon sign. The light from this sign would not extend
beyond the show room area.
pon Leivermann, 7847 Alden Way, said he thought it was poor planning to have
a retail operation at this location. He thought it would increase traffic and would
be better located some place else in Fridley.
Paul Burkholder, 7860 Alden Way N.E., said he still felt this was totally incon-
sistant with the make up of the area. He said�that East River Road was not a commercial
strip. He continued that for the last couple of weeks he made a note of where other
car dealerships were located in other communities. He.said they were all clustered
around major arterial highways. Some examples were Brooklyn Center, Roseville,
Golden Valley and White Bear Lake, etc. Mr. Burkholder said he thought this property
was zoned wrong in the first place. He said he would like to know what the original
developer intended for this property when it was zoned C-2S. He said that Mr. Clark
had pointed out the alternate uses this property could have, but no one has come
forward asking to use this property for any of those alternate uses. He said he thought
the reason car dealerships required a Special Use Permit was because people got emotion-
ally involved when such a proposal came for their neighborhood. He said he personally
had a rea1 estate investment of $150,000 within 40 feet of this property, and his
. personal home was five blocks away, so he felt he had a substantial investment that
was being jeopardized by this operation coming:into this area. He said he thought the
� real estate values� would go down if this request was granted. He said all the talk
about the need for security was beginning to bother him al�o, as he hadn't thought of
that before. If this car lot drew the type that stripped cars, then how about his
tenants cars who live in the four plexes directly across the street. These cars would
be vandalized also. He said he would have to assume that Mr. Stephens would be
Planning Commission Meetinq - April 23, 1975� Paqe 6
n successful in this business and it was his personal feeling that this business would
be expanding to the lot north of the present site, and the two lots would be one big
. car lot. Mr. Burkholder said he had no personal vendetta against Mr. Stephens, and
as a businessman and a real estate broker, he could see that this was a good invest-
ment. He said they had made the statement at the last meeting that they would do
all that had been requested to get this business at this location. Now they are
hedging on the sign and the fences. He said he didn't feel that the lights could
be confined just to this property, unless he didn't know his physics. He said he
would like a signed statement from Mr. Stephens that he would never expand this business.
Elaine Hartmann, 119 Craig Way N.E., asked what assurances we would have that
Mr. Stephens would �o what he had prom.ised.
Chairman Harris said there were certain tools that the City had at their disposal
in issuing a Special Use Permit. There would be stipulations made that would be
binding on the petitioner. Another tool would be a time limii on the Special Use
Permit, so that G�:ter a set period of time, it would be up for renewal. All the
stipulations would be reviewed at th� time of renewal to see that they_ were being
met. Mr. Clark said that another requirement for a car lot was that there was a
yearly license required. -
Mr. Haggerty said that the residents of this area had uoiced concern about the
traffic problem caused by a. new car dealership. He said he would like to read into
the record some statements made in a le�ter he had received from Mr. Stang who has
' A-1 Motor Sports at this same location. He said Mr. Stang had reviewed his sales
,,� slips from December l, 1974 to February.28, 1975, a three month period, and they
numbered 668 actual purchases. There were 77 shopping days during this period which
made the average sales per day 86.7. He said Saiurday's were slow, so this would
� average over 90 sales a day during the week. Even during a slow time of the year,
Mr. Stang�said he had about 15 people a day who did not purchase anything, and that
in addition, as they carried so many different lines, they had about 4 peddlers a
day call at this operation. Mr. Stang continued in his letter, that they had training
. classes for children, 5 sessions, 4 days a week, each week, on snowmobiles, 2 sessions
for 10 days on motorcycles. He said each class had between 50 to" 75 children who
� were delivered and picked up by their parents. Mr. Haggerty said the point he was
trying to make was that the c�r dealership expected about 50 contacts a day for �
service and sales, which would be much less than the cantacts that came to A-1 Motor
�Sports, so you can't say that this use will increase the traffic, it could in fact
reduce the traffic. '
Mr. Burkho1der said he would have to see those figures for A-1 Motor Sports
certified before he would believe them. He said this site was on 1 i/2 acres. He
thought Mr. Clark should check the size of most other car dealerships, because he
didn't feel there was enough room on one lot for such a business. He still felt this
request should be categorically denied for this location.
- Mr. Langenfeld asked Mr. Burkholder if he had made the statement that real
estate values would go down if a car dealership went in at this location? Mr.
Burkholder said he had. Mr. Langenfeld asked Mr. Burkholder if he had any proof of
this and asked how the real estate values would change if this continued as a snow�nobile
and motorcycle dealership, or if it went to a car dealership? Mr. Burkholder said that
�� from his experience as a real estate broker, he believed that a car dealership would
lower the real estate values, not right away, but over a period of time, say 5 years.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Clark if this area had been zoned C-2S since the Zoning
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Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 . Page 7
Ordinance went into effect in 1956. Mr. Clark said this whole area was zoned C-2S
� until the apartments were.put in and that portion was rezoned since January 1956.
Mr. Haggerty said he would like a motion made approving this Special Use Permit,
and �if that motion was made, he would like the drawing presented at this meeting by
the petitioner to be marked "Exhibit 1". He thaught this would facilitate making the
motion. �
Mr. Jonak,,133 Craig Way N.E., asked who would police this operation to see that
thesti�pulations of the Special Use Permit were being followed. Mr. Harris said the
C.ity staff polices it, and if we put a time schedule on the Special Use Permit, the
stipulations would be checked for compliance at the time of renewal. Mr. Jonak said
the problem with something like this, once the business was established, it would be
hard to get it removed because nobody wanted to rock the boat. The attitude seems
to be so they have a little trouble now and again, so what? He said he would like
to have Mr. Stephens make a statement that he would be agreeable or amenable to any
legitimate complaint �he neighbors might have on this operation, and would make an
effort within a reasonable time, say a month, to make corrections or alteration, to
eliminate the complaint. He said he wouldn'i want to wait one or two years until
this Special Use Permit came up for renewal before any complaints were rectified.
Mr. Haggerty said that Mr. Stephens was always open to suggestions, but whether
we could commit ourselves to changes we are unaware of at this �ime, would be some
thing else, but he would ask Mr. Stephens to answer that question.
� Mr. Stephens said he was aware of the problems that had been discussed at �his
�, and the previous meeting and he could assure�the people that he tvould work closel�
� with the City and the City staff to get the job done righ� the first time. He said
they were very interested in getting along wi�h the people in the area, and if they
have any'objections when this business was in operiaion, he would like to know about
t�hem. He said they wanted to join the communi�y and be part of it. He said that
as this was not a specific problem, it was hard to know how to answer, but they wanted
to be a good neighbor and they would do their best to take care of any complaints on
the operation.
Mr. Janak said that no one knew what was going to happen. He. ��ust wanted Mr.
Stephens assurance that he would try to make changes on any reasona�le request, within
a months time. Mr. Stephens said there was no question but that they would try to
comply within any reasonable request.
Mr. Drigans asked how long the Datsun sign would be'illuminated? Mr. Stephens
said they would turn that off when they turned off the display lights, so the latest
would be 9:00.
Mr. Clark said there was one other thing that hadn't been discussed at all and that
was a paging system, which can cause all kinds of problems. Mr. Stephens said they
have used a paging system, but they could try one out on this property, and see if it
was objectionable. He said they wouldn't put a speaker facing East River Road. Mr.
Clark said that as to the noise level standards, you could make a lot of noise if
it was just for a short period of time, without violating any codes. If we could
� get some agreement about these sounds not crossing the property line, this could
eliminate this problem. Mr. Stephens said they would agree to that. Mr. Harris said
'�� this could be one of the stipulations.
Mary Martin asked the petitioner to come and check the paging system and lights
��rom her front yard after they were in operation. Then they would knaw what was
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Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 � Page 8
objectionable or not. This would be a more realistic assessment she thought.
Mr. Burkholder said that if this Special Use Permit was granted, that the test
driving of cars would not be confined to East River Road and they would be going
down the side streets, such as Alden Way, and other streets where people live on
that were present at this meeting. He felt this would be an additional hazard to
residents of the area.
Mr. Meissner asked Mr. Stephens if he had considered using a pocket system of
paging rather than a speaker system. Mr. Stephens said they would check into other
alternatives. He said he didn't think they were using a paging system where they were
now, and didn't know if they would have any paging system outside the building for
this opera�ion.
Mr. Harris said that maybe one solution to the problem that Mr. Burkholder
mentioned of test driving of the cars on residential streets, would be to encourage
the road testing in the industrial ai°ea across ';he tracts, and then they wouldn't•
have to cross East River Road. Mr. Stephens said this would be the most logical area.
. Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Stephens if he had any objection to the Special Use Permi�
being granted to him and be non-transferable? Mr. Stephens said he thought this
was a dif�icult situation. He said not from his standpoint, but how long did any of
us know how long we were going to be here. When you have a company, that was a
corporation, if someihing happened to him, we wouldn't have this permit. He said
that when the City has a license law that came up yearly, and a two year renewal on
the Special Use Permit, he thaught they would have a17 the teeth you would want on
�'1 this property.
t
Mr. Burkholder asked Mr. Stephens why he had decided to locate� on this particular
lot." Mr. Stephens said it was the size of the building, the size of the lo�t, it was
a pretty well traveled street, the land was adequate for �heir operation, besides the
building was already there, and it would cost a lot more to start with a vacant lot.
He said this property fit their needs right to a"T". -
Mr. Haggerty said he would like to go through tFie changes that have been made
and go through some of the things they thought should be stipulations: Mr. Harris
said they could take that as a suggestion. Mr. Drigans said he was afraid the neople
in the audience would think Mr. Haggerty was putting words' in their mouths. Mr.
Haggerty said that if one of the members of the Planning Commission would like to
make the motion with the stipulations, he would like ta reserve the right to comment
on the stipulations before the motion was voted upon, if this was permissible.
Mr. Meissner said he thought it mi�ht be worthwhile to have Mr. Haggerty summarize
the things that Win Stephens had agreed to or the majar pointsthat `they say they
were going to do, as part of the Public He�ring.
Mr. Haggerty asked if they could have five minutes to go through these items,
to make sure they had them all.
RECESS:
�,� Chairman Harris declared a five minute recess at 9:45 P.M.
y
RECONVENED:
Chairman Harris reconvened the Planning Commission meeting at 10:00 P.M.
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Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 � Page 9
Mr. Haggerty said that in summary af Win Stephens position in reference to
� this Special Use Permit, he would like the plan they presented at this meeting
marked as Exhibit 1. He would suggest that the layout and the lighting plan be made
part of the motion. The specific lights which we have already shown you, will be
� 1000 watt mercury lights, which will be approximately 25 feet in height. The second
item was the fence. At the present time there was a fence around the entire area.
We would recommend that the fence on East River Road be moved back to the front
part of the warehouse section, as shown on Exhibit 1., and that this fence have
a checkerboa,rd effect, and would run parallel to East River Road. Also, the present
fence that was on the back property line.be left as an open chain link fence. Any
external sounds that may be objectionable to the people in the community will be
removed, and this would apply to a period of time. As far as the display signs, we
- recommend that we be able to place a Win Stephens global sign with the Datsun sign
on the face portion of the warehouse building, and that an.y sign would meet the
, requirements of the sign ordinance, plus we woulcl be a7.lowe� to..remoye the sign firom
the northwest corner of the premises, and the sign on the corner of tast .River Road
and 77th Way be allowed to remain. We also request that stipulations 1 and 2 of the
Environmental Quality Commission meeting of April 15th remain as stipulatioi�s. This
� was in reference to noise and light leve]s. He said that in regard to drainage,
lighting, building standards, or any thi�ng like that, they were willing to meet all
the code requirements. He said this summarizes their position and his recommendation
was tha� a motion be made for approval.
Mr. Meissner said that on this Exhibit 1, you intenda to use this layout for
your landscaping an improvements as shown on the plan. Mr. Haggerty said they did.
��, Mr. Clark said that when they were discussing the Datsun sign they said the letters
would be six feet high. Mr. Stephens said he thought this size was too large to mee�t
the code requirements, and they would con�'orm to the sign ordinance, regardless of
what si�e those requirements were. '
Mary Martin said she would like to have it stipulated that there be no parki.ng
or road testing on residential streets, and also, the people in the area would like
to be notified when the Special Use Permit came up for renewal.
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning Commission e2ose the.
Public Hearing on the request for a Special Use Permit, SP #75-02, by Wyman Smith,
Attorney for W. R. Stephens, Jr. Upon a voice vote,ca.Z1 voting aye, Chairman Harris
closed the Public Hearing at 10:25 P.1�1. '
Nfr. Langenfeld said he just wanted to make reference to the April 9th minutes
and this would be based on the very essense of a Special Use Permit, and that was that
the City should deem a requisite of considering the effect of such a Special Use
Permit on the general welfare, public health and safety. He said he was sure these
would be taken into consideration along with the stipulations.
Mr. Meissner said we have three stipulations from.the Building Standards Sub-
� committee. Two of them were on landscaping and one was on the lights. He asked if
those had been adequately handled in the stipulations by the developer, or do you
�want additional stipulations? Mr. Lindblad said he thought all the questions had
been answered in a satifactory manner. He said that this had been discussed quite
�,� extensively at the Building Standards meeting with the petitioner, and that Exhibit 1
was basically what they had suggested. He said it was left open for Planning Commission
� approval and he thought most of the members approved of the presentation. Mr. Lindblad
Said the 4th stipulation was only a recommendation because this was governed by the
�
Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975� Pa e 10
n sign ordinance. He said we had suggested a pylon sign, but he had no objection
to the placement of the sign as presented at this meeting.
Mr. Drigans said he thought there were enough pylon signs in the City already.
Mr. Lindblad said that on the fence that ran parallel to East River Road, he
had expected a different pattern than what was presented, but he had no objection
to the checkerboard effect that Mr. Stephens had described. Mr. Haggerty said the
material they would be using on this face was very durable and for security reasons,
he thought this was the best treatment for this fence. Mr. Harris said he was familiar
with this material and it was very durable.
Mr. Drigans asked about the slatting of the chain link fence. Mr. Lindblad
said he personally t�asn't in favor of slatting a fence. They look nice when it was
first done, but in a short time they got to be a maintenance prob�lem. He said he
would rather see a chain li�k fence that was kept in good repair and weed �ree. Mr.
Drigans said thei� was a problem in cut�ing the concrete slab. and he asked the reason
why the Building Standards Subcommittee wanted this done. Mr. Lindblad said there had
been a lot of discussion of this at their meeting also. I� was left open that if they
could come up with a plan that wouldn't necessitate tearing up al�l the concrete, that
would be decorative, the Subcommittee would go along with that. He said he thought
the redwood planters would break up this area and he though� that was also a satifactory
solution. He said you really could��'t expect them to tear out all that concrete just
so it could have a certain design.
,-� Mr. Drigans said that on the fourth stipulation by the Environmental Quality
� Commission on denying access to East River Road, he thought that as the lot to �he
North has to share access with this lot, he saw no reason to deny this property access
to East River Road. He asked Mr. Lang�nfeld about the 5th stipulation about eliminating
the pole sign. He asked if they were talking about a pylon sign��or the two ex�sting
signs? Mr. Langenfeld said th�ey had assumed �he pole sign would be erec�ed, and this
they did not want. .
Mr. Drigans said he was in favor of granting this Special Use Permit with certain
stipulations.
Mr. Langenfeld said that.he was sure that with all the citizen input and the
businessmen involved, that the people were aware that some decisions could be pretty
difficult. He said he was just as concerned as the citizens, but he would like to
point out that if this Special Use Permit was denied, and even if we went so far as
to even think about rezoning this property, we would then enter into what he would
call a'down zoning situation' which would be very costly to the citizens as well
as to the individual who owns this property. He feels the citizens would have more
inconveniences than what now presently exist.
Mr. Meissner said that if this Special Use Permit was recommended for approval
- by the City Council, there had been concern as to how the stipulations would be
enforced. Ne said 'the responsibility for•the enforcements of these stipulations
woul�d rest largely with the peopie who are affected by this request. He said the
City Council would be putting on the stipulations, and the City staff would be
enforcing them as far as supervising the construction and seeing that the stipulations
�� were carried out during construction. At the time that the special use is review�d,
� in a year or t►vo, or at the time of the yearly license renewal, that was the time for
the citizens to come in and state the problems they have had with this business. You
would have a very valid point at that time, if the stipulations aren't carried out.
Planninq Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 Page 11
He told the people not to lose their perspective as to how they could take care
�'"1 of some of the problems. He said he was sure that Mr. Stephens was a man of integrity
and honor and would live up to what he says about trying to take care of citizen
complaints. He said he wasn't trying to imply anything else, but the people would
� still have power in seeing that the stipulations were being carried out.
Mr. Drigans said this property was zoned properl:y. The Specia� Use Permit
required was just a tool the City uses to control certain uses within this zone.
Mr. Meissner said a Special Use Permit would be required in any zone of the City for
this use.
Mr. Jonak asked if it could be a stipulatio.n that all the test driving be done
in an industrial area. He felt this could be done if a salesman was with the person
trying out the car. Mr. Stephens said it was their palicy to usually have a sal.esman
accompany a prospecti�ve buyer. .
Mr. Meissner said that once someone was out on a public street, no one �an really
force you to go any place except down a public street. The salesman can ask them to
go a certain way, but if the driver of the car says he wants to go a different way,
there wouldn't be anything anyone could do. You can't k�ep people off the public
streets. He said he didn't thini< they could enforce the provision that�all road
testing be done in industrial areas: We could ask that it be encouraged. Mr. Harris
said we could ask Mr. Stephens to encourage his salesman to use the industrial area.
There are differen� degrees of encouragement.
MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Drigans, that�the Planning Commission recommend
~"1 ta Council approval of the request for a 5pecial Use Permit, SP #75-02, by Ayman Smith,
Attorney for W. R. Stephens, Jr., to permit the sale of new and used cars, per Fridley
City Code, Section 205.101, 3, B, and 3, G, in a C-2S zone (general shopping areas1 to
be Iocated on Lot 1, Block 1, Pearson's Second Addition, the same being 7701 East
River Road, subject to the following stipulations:
1. That Exhibit 1 be incZuded as part of the record.
2. That the lighting would consist primarily of bulbs having 1000 watts .
on poles 25�feet high as shoran on the plan, and that said Iighting to be
reduced to not exceed that produce,d by a standard 250 watt mercury vapor"Iamp,
located 100 feet from such a residential property after 9:00 P.M.
3. Fences be in accordance with Exhibit 1.
4. Noise levels must meet the standards set down in zoning ordinance 205.112,
and further, that there not be any sounds that are objectionable to the ,
community.
5. The Datsun sign be mounted on the face of the warehouse portion of the
building and not be mounted on a po1e. �
6. That the s�gn on the south side of the building be retained and the sign on
the north side of the building be removed. •
�� 7. That the entrances remain as shown on Exhibit 1.
8. That this Special Use Permit be renewable in-two years.
. - �'�
Planninq Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 Page 12
9. That this Special Use Permit be non-tr�nsferable and not �ransfe�red to
�ii another owner without another application being made for a Special Use
Permit and another Public Hearing being held.
I0. No Parking be allowed on residential streets in the immediate neighborhood
for business purposes.
11. The test driving be encouraged by W. R. Stephens salesmen to be done in the
industrial area and nat in the residential area.
12. A11 City Code requirements be met.
13. That the nuraber of stalls on this property be limited to 90 parking stalls.
Mr. Clark said they had discussed the public address system, and this was
probably'covered in the 4th stipulation on no objectionable noise. Mr. Meissner
said he hesitated in specifically setting public address standards, and sai' that
personally he would like to see them use a pocket paging system or some non=loud
speaker type system. Mr. Clark said the other point brought out at the meeting was
that this business not be expanded.
Chairman Harris said the Publi� Hearing was closed, but he would bend the rules
a little because there were people who wanted to be heard, now that the stipulations
had been made.
^ Mary Mar�in asked if the people in the area could be notified when this came up
for renewal. Mr. Drigans said that this was not done, because the City didn't have
the staff to �otify everyone of these renewals. He said there were many Special Use
Permits.that were subject to renewal, and theY':all came up at dif�erent times.. Mr..
Clark said this was usually done by the City Council, and th�re would not be a hearing
by the Council or the Planning Commission. Mr. Meissner said that speaking realisticall
after this has come up for renewal a couple of times, how many problems can be left.
;�`1
ti
Mr. Clark said the first renewal date would be two years, and maybe the second
renewal date would be five years after the first one, you never know, because this
was up to the Council.
Mary Martin said that Mr. Meissner had mentioned that the people in the area
had policing power and she wondered if the City would help them in this. Mr. Meissner
said the way to do this was to write a letter to the City, and this would be put in
the Special Use file, and then this would be �rought up to the City Council when this
permit came up for renewal.
Mary Mar.tin said that if there was a written agreement between Mr. Stephens
and the City on this Special Use Permit, would the citizens in the area be able to
get a copy of this agreement. Mr. Harris said they could as this would be a public
document. � ' �
Mr. Stephens askedvhen this Special Use Permit would be renewable, bearing in
mind that it would be 90 days or more before they would be in operation. Mr. Clark
said they like to have these Special Use Permits come up for renewal during the
growing season so that the landscaping and maintenance could be checked at that time.
He said that usually an actual date was set, but it usualJydidn't coincide with approva'
by the Planning Commission or Council, because this could lead to confusion as to the
actual date it needed to be renewed.
Planning Commission Meetinq - April 23, 1975� Page 13
^ Mr. Burkholder said that in the discussion at the last meeting, Mr. Clark
stated that Mr. Stephens could use the lot to the north for employee and customer
� parking without obtaining a Special Use Permit, because this was an allowed use in
a C-2S zone. Mr. Harris said he could not store or sell new or used cars on this lot
� without ano�her application for a Special Use Permit for this lot. Mr. Harris said
he didn't know the asking price for Lot 2, but he would think it would be a ti:ttle too
expensive to use it for an employee and customer parking lot. It would be a matter of
economics. Mr. 6urkholder said if he went strictly by the code though, Mr. Stephens
could lease this property for that use. Mr. Harris said it would have to go to
Building Standards and ultimately to the Council if he was going to use the north lot
as a parking l�ot as stated.
Mr. Burkholder asked if there would be notification of this request. Mr. Clark
said that if it didn't require a Special Use Permit or rezoning there wouTdn't be
any notification.
Mr. Meissner� asked if this wouldn't be regarded as an expansion of an existing
business and be required to have a Special Use Permit? Mr. Clar.k said he couldn't
answer that. He said that he didn'i know if it would be enforceable, but if you
want to add a stipulation that �his busine"ss couldn't be expanded without additional
Public Hearings so that at least the City Council would be aware of it, and if they
wanted to put it in the agreement with Mr. Stephens, that would be their decision.
MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Lindblad, to amend the motion with the folZowing
additionaZ stipulation:
n 14. To require that additional Public Hearings be held should any attempt be
. made to expand this business by the purchase of additional property or in
some other manner.
UPON a voice vote on the�amendment to the motion, Meissner, Dr�gans, Lindhlad,
voting aye, Harris abstaining, the motion.carried.
Upon a voice vote on the motion, Meissner, Drigans, Lindblad, voting aye, Chairman
Harris abstaining, the motion carried. .
Mary Martin said she wished to commend the Planning Commission on the very
open way this Public Hearing had been conducted, and that everyone wa�s given the
opportunity to speak. Mr. Burkholder said he would second that.
Chairma��Harris thanked.them on behalf of the Planning Commission for their
kind words.
3. CONTINUED: VACATION REQUEST, SAV #75-01, NORTH SUBURBAN HOSPITAL DISTRICT:
To vacate all that part of 76th Avenue N.E. located in Osborne Manor 2nd Addition,
lying East of the East line of 5th Street N.E., to be used for parking and planning
" purposes.
Mr. Car1 Gabriel of 401 76th Avenue N.E. was present.
Mr. Clark said that 76th Avenue east of 5th street was presently unimproved. The
!"`� North Suburban Hospital District owns all the property north ar;d south of this street
except the corner lot at5th street and 76th Avenue. At our last meeting it was brought
to our attention that although this was not a Public Hearing, the Planning Commission
felt that notification should be made to that particular owner, and Mr. Gabriel was
Planning Commi'ssion Meetinq - April 23, 1975 Page 14
�, present so perhaps he would have some comments to make both pro and con on this
vacation request. �
Mr. Clark said that if this street was vacated, it would go back to the present
property owners as this street was all dedicated from Osborne Manor 2nd Addition, so
it would all revert to the north. He said the City would want to retain all or part
of the street right of way for a water and sewer main that goes down about the center
line of this unimproved street, for utility purposes.
Mr. Clark said there were a couple of other questions that the Planning Commission
had and one of �hem was on the 7 year lease for.the park property. He said this was
discussed between the Hospital Board and the City Council, and bo�� parties had signed
the agreement, so this had to be agreeable to both parties.
He said the ownership of the small Outlot next to the park property was one year
away from going tax forfeit. He said the assessor's office had been notifi � that
they wanted to know when this happened so the City would have a chance to acquire i�.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Gabriel if he had any comments. Mr. Gabriel asked wha�
� the additional 50 feet that�would be added to his present lot would do to his taxes?
� Mr. Clark said he couldn't really a�swer that question, but he thought the assessing
department based most of the value on the structure on a property, and this woul�
still be considered as one building site. He said that whether a lot was 80 fooL,
85 foot, or 90 foot, you wouldn't see a great deal of difference in taxes if the
value of the structure was the same, but he didn't know what an additional 50 feet
^ would do to the value. He said this would have to be answered by the City Assessor.
Mr. Clark said there would be some restrictions on this 50 feet, and that obviously
you could no� build a permanent structure on this 50 feet because of the utility .
easement that would have to be retained. He said that aside from the yearly tax,
if improvements were made io 5th Street, which was assessed by the front footage
of a property, that would be when you would appreciate the biggest increase in his
taxes. He said that after 76th Avenue was vacated, and the City decided to put a
curb across this 50 feet, who would stand the cost of that? He said he thought the
Council should answer this question so that Mr. Gabriel knew whether or not he was
going to be burdened with this assessment or whether he wa�s not going to be burdened:
Mr. Gabriel asked wha� the City was going to do with 76th Avenue?
Mr. Clark said that if it was vacated, the City would no longer have jurisdic�ion
over it. �
Mr. Gabriel asked who would own this property? Mr. Clar��k said that Mr. Gabriel
would own the 50 feet adjacent to his lot, and the balance would be owned by the
Hospital District. Mr. Gabriel asked if there would ever be a cul-de-sac there.
Mr. Clark said that one of the stipulations when the Hospital Board wanted to put
in the medical building was that 76th Avenue never be used for an access to this
property, so the hospital wouldn't be putting a road in. �
Mr. Clark said the Hospital Board has no plans for this property now., They did
• make the statement that the medical field was changing so fast, they didn't �kno� what
,� their needs would be in the future.
Mr. Gabriel asked that if the Hospital Board pu� a parking lot in this area,
how close would it come to �is property? Mr. Clark said they had to be l00 feet
away from 5th Street. This was as close as they could come with the stipulations
Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 Page 15 _
that were put on the Special Use Permit for the medical building. They would
^ have to stay 20 feet from the south line of 76th Avenue and 150 feet east of the
east line of 5th Street. Mr. Clark said that if the Hospital Board did decide to
make this area into a parking lot, they could go on the north side of 76th Avenue
� also. Mr. Gabriel said the 150 foot restriction could still bring the parking
lot right up to his property line.
Mr. Gabriel asked what choice he had in accepting this 50 feet. Mr. Clark
said the 50 feet would be Mr. Gabriel's to control. He said the:Hospital Board
may be interested in buying it, or you could deed it to them if you so desired.
Mr. Gabriel said he couldn't understand why this property should come to him. Mr.
Clark said this was because the property was originally dedicated from Osborne
Manor 2nd Addition, so the property had to go back to that plat.
Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Clark if you didn't have to have an agreement from all
adjacent,property owners before you could vacate a street? Mr. Clark said this
was not a code requirement, but in practice we would like to have agreement Mr.
Drigans said that it seems that in this instance that there were two parties involved,
and one �ants the vacation and the other doesn't. Mr. Clark said that was the purpose
of the Public Hearing before the City Council so that everyone who was affected by
a vacation request could be heard. .
' Mr. Gabriel said his main concern now was the additional taxes and that this
street was undeveloped and had a lot of blown down trees on it. He said there hadn't
been a clean up of this property for quite a while. Mr. Harris asked Mr. Gabriel
if he used any part of 76th Avenue for access to h.is property. Mr. Gabriel said
^ his house faced 76th Avenue but his garage faced 5th Street so he had access from
5th Street. Ne said he would be in favor of having this area cleaned up and sodded.
Mr.� Harris asked Mr. Clark if there was any reason why the City was maintaining
the sewer and water service on 76th Avenue. Mr. Clark said it did service the hospital
and the medical o�fice building. Mr. Narris said that as long as they�were in use,
they would have to retain an easement for this utilities.
Mr. Meissner said they had a lot of these same questions on the Plats & Subdivision.
Streets & Utili�ies Subcommittee where they had vacated quite a few streets. He •
said that generally taxes, per se, were not radically affected, because as Mr. Clark
� state�, most o� the value for the property was placed on the structure. He.said any
street improvements or storm sewer assessments that are based on front footage of the
property was where the impact of higher taxes would come in. He said that Mr. Gabriel
o would have to discuss this with the City Assessor. He said the land would not be
fixed up or improved in any way by the City when it was handed back to the property
owner. When the land was given back after the street was vacated, it then becomes
the property owners land to clean up and develop, or whatever they desire to do. �
. As for the potential curb across 76th Avenue, the Planning Commission could stipulate
that the City pick up this cost, if they so desire. He said Mr. Gabriel's option was
to split off that 50 feet and sell it to the Hospital District, or deed it to them, if
that was the way to get rid of it. Mr. Clark said he didn't think he would have to
get a lot split. He thought if Mr. Gabriel just called the Hospital Board and discussed
this with John Haines after he had made up his mind what he wanted to do with the
vacated street, and the Hospital Board might be interested in accepting this as part
of their property. Mr. Clark said the comment made by Mr. Meissner that the City might
�� b� willing to pick up the cost for extending the curbing on 5th Street, he didn't know
if the City would want to absorb this cost. He said the Hospital Board was in the
process of putting in a new parking lot and curbs, and they might be willing to �dd
this curb to their construction in consideration of the vacation request.
e
Planninq Commission Meeting April 23, 1975� Page 16
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Gabriel if. he was in favor of the vacation or opposed to
it. Mr. Gabriel said he wasn't opposed, but he wouid like to check on the tax
�'�1 situation.
�
�
Mr. Drigans said he could deed this to the Hospital Board and avoid a tax
increase.
Mr. Gabriel said he would like to see something done if this street was
vacated. He said it was just a pile of sand. Mr. Clark said he didn't think it
would be out of line to make it a stipulation for the Hospital Board to add top
soil and seed this area. He said that if Mr. Gabriel kept the 50 feet, this would
apply to him also. He said that if Mr. Gabriel sold this property to the Hospital
Board or deeded it ta them, he could stipulate that they put top soil and seed all
of vacated 76th Avenue.
Mr. Clark said that Mr. Gabriel should check with';the City tax assessor between
this meeting and the Public Hearing by the City Council, so he could come to some
decision before that time. •
MOTION by Meissner, seconded b� Lindblad, that the Planning Commission recommend
to Council approval of the request for a vacation, SAV #75-01, by North Suburban
Hospital District, to vacate alI that part of 76th Avenue N.E. Iocated in Osborne
Manor 2nd Addition, Iying East of the East line of 5th Street N.E. to be used for
parking and planning purposes with the following stipulations:
1. The North Suburban Hospital �istrict bear the cost of the completion of
the curb along5th Street N.E.
Z. The vac�ted.�roadway be improved with top soil and seeded to provide ground
cover.
�Mr. Clark said that retaining of the utility easement should have been included
as a stipulation.
MOZ'ION by Meissner, seconded by Drigans, to amend the motion with the additional
stipulation that the City retain a��utilityeasement on the entire street right of way.
Upon a voice vote, the amendment to the motion carried unanimously.
UPON � VOICE VOTE, a1I vo�ing aye, the motion �arried unanimously.
4. CONTINUED: REQUEST FOR A LOT SPLIT, L.S. #71-08s BY CLIFFORD J. THOE: To split
off the Westerly 70 feet of the Southerly 123 feet of Lot 18, Block 2, Central
View Manor, except that part taken for roadway purposes, to split the residence
from the service station.property, the same being 7420 Central Avenue N.E.
Mr. Clifford Thoe and Mr. Charles Jordon were present.
Mr. Clark said this was discussed back in 1971 and 1972. He said there had
been discussion on this by our City Attorney, Plats & Subs., and the Planning
Commission, about if this lot was split off, what the disposition would be of the
property if it were ever sold. At that time, the Planning Commission wished to have
a stipulation placed on the lot split that the lot could never be sold to anyone
exce�t the owner of the commercial property from which this lot split was being taken.
At that time, Mr. Thoe felt he could not abide by this stipulation because it would
only give him one buyer for the property, and if the service station owner only
�
Planning Commission Meeting - April 23,� 1975� �� " Paqe�17� �.
wanted to give him say $2,000 for this property, he couldn't go elsewhere to sell
his property so he wouldn't have any bargaining power, so h�;withdrew his request.
He said this wa's what Mr. Thoe would like to discuss with the Planning Commisson
at this time, to see if they could come up with an alternate solution.
Mr. Thoe said that this stipulation left him without any bargai.rii.ng power at
all. I�e.said he had been asked to have the property surveyed and this he had done.
Mr. Thde"'saidthat he had been to the Board of Appeals for a variance on the setback
lines on this property before he had the survey done. Mr. Thoe said that one of the
objec�ions to this lot split was that he would need a sewer and water easement on this
property. He said he was connected to the sewer on Ceniral Avenue and he got his water
through the service•station. He said.he wou1d probably need an easement for the water.
Mr. Clark said this water would have to come from 73 1/2 or Central Avenue, because
there was no water on 73rd. Mr. Thoe said they had taken 33 feet of his property
� for 73rd Avenue, so the residential part of this property was 70 x 90 feet. Mr.
Clark said this only made about 6300 square feet, and our minimum residential lot size
was 9,000. Mr. C;ark said this house was on commercial property so at �resent it was
a legal non-conforming use. He said that what Mr. Thoe was worried about was that if
a� some time he wished to sell this property, he couldn'� sell it to anyone except the
� service station owner, and the service station owner knows he has �o sell to him, so
he would have no bargaining power. He would have to accept less for this house than
if it was placed somewhere else. The problem he sees was that he could not go some-
. where else and buy this same type house and garage for 'the money he would realize from
the sale of this proper�y. If he could offer this house to more than one buyer, he
could ge� considerably more for his property. This was why he didn't want to be tied
io this stipulation. �
�
Mr. Lindblad said tha� as this property falls into a legal non-conforming use,
� it would be governed by the regulation that if it were more than 50% damaged by
fire, wind, etc., it could not be rebuilt. Mr. Clark said it could not be rebuilt as
a house. Mr. Clark said that another concern they had when this was first considered
was that we would be ct�ea�ing a 6300 square foot parcel in a commercial area. If this
. does not meet the code as a residential lot, it certainly wouldn't meet �he cade for
a commercial lot. We were trying to look into the future and not have one piece of
' commercial property under two ownerships. He said Mr. Thoe would like �o see that
too, but financially he didn't think he could afford it. '
Mr. Harris said this was still one piece of commercial property then, it hasn't
been split. Mr. Clark said it hadn't. "
Mr. Meissner said he was a member of �he Plats & Sub. Subcommittee when this
first came up for discussion. He asked if there was any��hing that had changed since
•this was discussed a few years ago? Mr. Clark said no, but that now Mr. Thoe knows
� where the sewer service was, and it wasn't on the parcel of ground he wanted to split
off. He said the drawing that Mr. Thoe had provided at that time had proved quite
� accurate when you compare it to the verification survey he had just obtained. He
. said Mr. Thoe had indicated that the garage for the house and the service station
were 4 feet apart, and they are actually.4.6 feet apart.
� Mr. Meissner asked who owned the property directly to the west. Mr. Thoe said
it was John Haluptzok. Mr. Meissner said he had looked at this property, and 6y the
n appearance of the fence, it would give theimpress�ion that you own that property also.
Mr. Thoe said that Mr. Haluptzok liked the fence Mr. Thoe put up, so he put one up
just like it.
Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 Page 18
Mr. Harris said that according to the survey,�th� service station would be
''� 2 feet off the property line of the property he wants to split off. He thought this
� would be quite close. �
��
�
Mr. Clark said he could appreciate Mr. Thoe's problem, but he felt that the
City had to be protected also in not letting this problem exist for a long period
of time and let it coniinually change hands.
Mr. Meissner asked that if this property were split off, would the remaining
service station meet the code requirements. Mr. Clark said it would, but they had
requested the variances for the service station because they wanted to make some
changes. He said this was what brought this lot. split back for reconsideration.
... Mr. Harris asked how long the service station had been in existe�ce? Mr. Thoe
said th��.�house and service station were built by the same person in 1949.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Clark if �he City staff had any recommendataon on�this
request. Mr. Clark said they didn't. The solution to the problem would be if
the entire property could be under one ownership. Mr. Jordon said he was not finanei���!
able to purchase both the service station and the house. Mr. Thoe said that if he
could, he could make arrangements to rent the house. -
Mr. Clar.� said that as long as the house was in existence, it did make the
cost prohibitive for the service station owner to purchase this part of the property.
He said if this were vacant land, the cost would be more in line.
Mr. Thoe said the reason this parcel tha� he wanted to split off was so small
was because the City took 33 feet of this property for 73rd Avenue.
Mr. Meissner said that at the time of the ori�inal request the possib��ity
of granting �he lot split with an agreement �hat the only person the petitioner could
sell that lot to would be the service station owner was not accep�able to Mr. Thoe.
He asked Mr. Thoe if this was still unacceptable to him. Mr. Thoe said it was, and
he hoped the Planning Commission could come up with an alternative.
Mr. Thoe said he had a letter from the City saying that some other property
had been handled that same way; he thought it was Holiday. Mr. Clark said he
didn't have a copy of that agreement at this meeting, and wasn't sure what property
the agreement covered because Holi'day had property scattered all over. He said he
didn't think there were lot splits involved for Holiday. This had been a rezoning
request, unless this was covered in the agreement for rezoning.
Mr. Harris asked what would happen if this part of the property was split off,
and at some future date the house was demolished. Would the City then be in the
position of having to issue a building permit for this property for a commercial
endeavor? Mr. Meissner said this would be a substandard lot with no previous legal
non-conforming use as commercial property, so what cou�d you do with it?
Mr. Harris said that there could probably be a covenant with Mr. Thoe that
in the eventuality that the house was destroyed that the owner of that property
would never request a permit to rebuild a house or a permit for a commercial endeavor
unless this property was owned by an adjacent owner of commerical property. He said
that this way, he could sell the house to someone else, and they use this house as
a residence, but they would be under the same obliga��ion as Mr. Thoe would be. �
Planning Commission Meeting - April 23, 1975 Page 19
Mr. Lindblad asked what would happen as far as insurance if this house was
damaged more than 50% of its value, but was not a total loss, and it could not be
%� rebuilt because it was a legal non-conforming use?
Mr. Langenfeld said he would use the figure of a$20,000 home. If it was
damaged $12,000, the person would have the option of rebuil�ing or taking the $12,000.
If he couldn't rebuild because it was a legal non-conforming use, he would still
have the option of taking the 12,000, and the fact that he couldn't rebuild, he
wouldn't get any more money from the insurance company.
Mr. Meissner said he personally couldn't see any change in this request from
what it was three years ago. His position was still the same as it was then. Ne
felt than an impossible situation has been created which was just as bad, if not
" worse than what we have today. He said he couldn't be in favor of this request
being granted, because there wasn't anything different, to make him change his mind.
� Mr.�Drigans said he would like to see that agreement that was entered into with
Holiday. Mr. Meissner said that if the petitioner would be willing to ente� into
an agreement that if he ever wanted to sell, he would sell to one of the adjacent
property owners, so that this piece of property would eventually be a legal conforming
use again, he would be in favor of that.
Mr. Harris said he thought they should �hink abou'c this for a couple of weeks
to see if they could come up with some solution. He thought they should do some
research on this, so they could make the proper de�ermination of this request.
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Lindb3ad, to continue until May 7, 1975 the
� request for a Iot split, L.S. #71-OS, by Clifford J. Thoe, to split off the Westerly
� 70 feet of the 5outherly 123 feet of Lot 18, Block 2, Central View Manor, except
that part taken for highway purposes, to split the residence from the service station
property, the same being 7420 Central Avenue N.E. Upon a voice vote, all voting a�e,
the motion carrfed unanimousl�.
ADJOURNMENT:
�OTtON b� Meissner, seconded by Lindblad, that the meeting be adjourned. Upon
a voice vote, a11 voting aye, Chairman Harris adjourned the Planning Comraission meetirig
of Apri� 23, 1975 at 12:05 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
C� , r
Dorothy Evenso , Secretary
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