PL 11/05/1975 - 30430�1
• CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSTON MEETING - NOVEMBER.5, 1975 � PAGE 1
CALL TO ORDER:
� Vice Chairman Drigans called the meeting to orde� at 7:30 F.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Drigans, Scott, Bergman, Peterson, Langenfeld
Members Absent: Harris
Others Present: Jerrold Boardman, City Planner
Ray Leek, Planning Intern
ADOPTION OF AGENDA:
MO�ION by 5cott, seconded by Peterson, that the agenda be adopted
as submitted Upon a voiaa v�ie, a11 v�ti,ig aye, �he moti�n carried
unanimously.
APPROVE PLANNING COM�ISSION MINUTES: OCTOgER 22, 1975
� Mr. L�ngenfeld said that on pag� 5 of �he minutes where he was quoting .
directly from the Enviranmental Commission minutes of August 13, 1975, that -
the sen�ence that started Mrs Martin saide... and to the end of that paragraph
should be in quotation marks, �ecause this was a direct quo�ation from these
� minutes. He would also like th� las� sta�ement he made on page 13 re�ioved
from the minutes, because ti�is vdus a co�nmer��t he made that had notF�ing ta do
. with bikelan�s.
�
Mr. Dr;gans said that on page 6 o�F these minutes Mr. Narris had askee� for
a legal opir�ion on how Special Use Permits could be handled tha�` were issued
to individuals ins�ead�of the property. He asked if ichis legal opinion had
been received. Mr. Baardman said there was a memo from Dick Sobiec�, but a
legal opinion had noi: been received at this time.
MOTION by ScotL, second�d by Peterson, �hat the Planning Commission minu�es
of Uctober 22, 1975 be approved as amended. _Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimousl��. �
RECEIVE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSTON MTNUTES: OCTOBER 16, 1975
MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Langenfe.Zd, that the Planning Corrunission
receive the Enviranmental Carcunission minutes of the October 16, I975 rrceeting.
' Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
RECEIVE PARK.S &� RECREATION C�t�9t�1T�STON MTNUTES:: OCTOBER 27, 1975
MOTl'ON by ScoiL, second�d b� Peterson, �hat the Planninq Comrtiission recc�ive
the Parks & Recreaiion Commission minutes for the meeting of October 27, 1975.
Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the mation carried unanimously.
0
Planning Commission I�e�tinq - November 5, 1975 Pa e 2
� i. CONTINUED: REVIEW OF PROPOSED CNANGES IN CHAPTER 115, SWIMP�ING POOLS,
�''1 OF THE FRIDLEY CITY CODE
P�r. Langenfeld asked if anyone had found out what�the term '�atural
person' meant besides it being a legal terminology? Mr. Boardman said he
hadn' t. .
NOTE: Upon checking a legal dictionary, a natural person�means one human
being, as opposed to�an artificial per°son.which means many human beings ��hat
are formed together with the rights and responsibilities of one person.
Mr. Peterson said tha� he would assume it was in tr�e ordinance for some
purpose a�d before we determine if it should be elimina�ted from the ordinance
we should find out why it was there. Mrr. Bergman said this same terminology
was in the beer licen�sing code also.
Mr. Boardman sa-id he had �iscussed the r_hanges that the Planning ''�mmission
had recommended at their October 22nd meeting with Steve Olson, and he said
there would be no problem with these changes. Mr. Boardman reviewed these
recommendations. '
Mr. Bergman said he hadn'� been at the last meeting, but he felt it was
an over-reaction to change the fence height requirement from 4 feet to 6 feeto
He said he thought the�4 foot height was marginal, but that a 5 foot fence
would be a more realistic change in the ordinance, rather than the 6 foot
requirement, He said 5 fee�t was the requirement along the freeways.
i�1
-- The other rnembErs of the Planning Cammissiun said that they felt the
six ��oot requiremen� would be a more formidable barrier for toddlers and
young children. They thought a swimming pool was much more of an enticement
or attractive nuisance �than a high��ray would be. Mr. Bergman said he had just
.�brought this up•fo�^ �iscussion, and would go alang with the majority view.
Mr. Scott asked that the sexist terms in paragraphs 115.04 and 115.05
be deleted and substituted�with other terms: •Mr. Boardman said he would do
this. Mr. Drigans said he was sure you could find he and his in a lot of
the ordinances, and he didn't have too much s�rmpathy with people who got.
excitea over it.
Mr. Boardman said the or�ly other questior� on the proposed changes to
tiiis ordinance was a change in paragraph 115.25 Nuisance Prohibited. He
said he would change �his to read similar to other nuisan�e sections of the
code. It could read " No per•son shall operate, main'tain or permit, any
swimm�ing pool that creates a nuisance by annoying, injuring or endanger�ng
the safety, health, and general welfare of the public". The Planning
Commission agreed to this cha��ge.
Mr. Drigans said that Chairman Harris had raised the question.of swimming
pool water not being dra:ned into a sanitary sewer aic the last meeting.
. Mr. Boardman said he �vould just as soon not have this included in this
� ordinance, because it would be difficult to corztrol or•administer. Mr.
Langen�Feld said he thought most people pumpz� any excess water in'�o their
n yard. Mr. Bergman said that some people have maintained that swimming pool
water has icilled their gr�ass, but the people who sell swimming pools say
� � this was not true, tha�: �f yau can drink the w��ber, it cannot kill the grass.
.���
Plan�ing Commissinn Meeting - November 5, 1975 Pa e 3
Mr. Boardman said that all cancrete.pools had to be drained into the sani-
. tary sewer, so this was another reasan no'c to make this a part of the
n swirnning pool ordinance. He said that as most of �the concrete pools were
indoor pobls, they wou�d not be drained completely very often, and as most
of the residential pools had plastic liners, they didn't have to be drained
. . completely either. The Planning Commissi-on decided not to include this in
the ordinance.
Mr. Drigans �hought that all pool owners should be sent a copy of the
pub1ic hearing on the,proposed changes in the swirnming pool ordinance. Mr.
Bergman said tha� the proposed changes would not affect any pools that were
already in existence. Mr. Drigans said �hat it could make a difference in
the operation of the pools.
Mr. Boardman said that he didn't know if there had been a list compiled
of all the permits issued for residential pools� and the operators of public
pools ��rould have to make sure their pools were up to cade when they were
licensed each year. He said it was not City policy to send out public
ti�aring no'cices �co any special group on such an ordinance change, whei�
the ordinance change would not apply to something that was already exist-
ing. .
P?r. Boardman said the City had a procedure they followed in the noti-
-fication of affected property owners, but usually there was.�:ome type of �
request with a fee proeess, which offset a little, the cost of mailing out
the public hearing notices. If the Planning Commission was advocating a
policy of notifying any group ichat could be affected by an ordinance change,
this could�cost the City quiie a lot of money. Mr. Peterson said he wouldn't
be in favor of a policy -that would aQ`d to the taxpayers burden.
Mr. Drigans said this was a unique situation because this ordinance
covers the construction, operation and lirensing of swimming pools. He.
said this could affect the health, safety and welfare of the general
public. Mr. Boardman said that this could be said of many things, but
we still don't pick out a select group to send�public hearing not�ces to.
He said that on �he neva ordinance for junk vehicles, we did send the
ordinance to people who �andled junk cars, As a matter o-F policy, we do
send copies to dif�erent groups if it was.a hot issue, but he didn't think
the changes in this particular ordinance, which were more for clarificat'ion
than anything else, was a hot issue. Mr. Langenfeld said �hat he didn't
think there we�re any maj�i° changes in this ordinance to warrant special
handling of the public hear��g nntice. i�e thought the normal channel
would be enough notification. Mr. Bergmat� said the only part that would
affect exi st�ng SW1illI71'b�p� ��00� S. was i n the operati on,� and there was very
littl� in this ordinance on the operation of pools.
Mr. Boardman said that maybe the Planning Commission �rould want to
review the pubiic hearing notice�policy of publishing t{�e public hearings
in the Sun News�aper., He said he knew this did E�ot notify all the people,
but he didn't know tr;hat alternative there was. Mr. D�°igans said it was a
problem because a 1ot of people did not subscribe':to the l�cal,�paper, h1r.
� . Boardman said the only thing that went to everyone in Fridley was the news-
letter, and that was sen�t out four times a year. Mr. Pe�erson sa�d that
�'`� even if it was after the fact, these changes could be mentioned in this
newsletter.
�.� S
�lanning Commission Meetinq - November �, 1975 Paqe 4
m MOTlON by Langenfe�d, seconded by Peterson, that the.Planning Commission
recommend to Council the�-proposed changes in Chapter 1Z.5, Swimming PooZs,
i� Fridley City Code as amended with the stipulation that the City Council determine
if some�notification of the public should be given on this amendment to
Section 115. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unani-
• mously. ,
2. RECEIVE AND CHANNEL TQ APPROPRIATE COMMITTEES, THE PROPOSED RULES AND
REGULATIONS FOR ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENTS FROM THE ENVIRONMENTA
QUALITY COUNCIL
MOTION by Langenfeld, seconded by Peterson, that'the Planning Commission
receive the proposed Ru1es and Regulations f�r Environmental zanpac� Statements
from the Environmental Qualit� CounciZ., Upon a voice v.ote, aZ1 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Boardman said that because a policy has not yet been set up as
to what Commi�sion snauld rev�ew cer�ain ,iings, he thought that for the
present, he would bring any new proposals to the Planning Commission, and
they could be channeied to the appf°opriate Commissions at this level. He
said ihat this i�iem directly af�ec�ted the Environmental Commission, but he
didn't know what other Commissions wauld w�nt to look at it.
Mr.� Scott said the Huma►i Resources Cammission would like to look at it,
because they would like �o get the sexist remarks out of the proposa]e
n Mr. Drigans said that at the last meeting, there had been a lot of
9- discussion on a�l the work �hat the Planning Corrnnission had, and a11 ihe
work tha� a lo� of the members of other Commissions had. The result o�F
. this discussion was �ha� it was recommeflded that part of the organization
structure be changed so that project committees wauld not have 'co be chaired
b� a member of a Commission. He s�id.that in reading the minutes o-F the �
various Cammissions, especially the H4man Resources Commission, he got ihe
. feeling that they were gett7ng too in�✓olved in other Commissions' problems.
Everything that comes befor� the Planning Commission, �hey want to look into,
for example, the billboards. Now the Parks & Recreations Commission wants to
have 10 project connnittees, and he said he didn't know what they would be
involved in. He said he -felt that if something fell within a Commission's
goals and ok�jectives, then �hey ha� the right to look into it. He�felt
that some.of the Commissions were reviewing things that were not necessary
or rev�lant. He said that he felt the Hum�n Resources Commission was involved
- in�so many things, and spreading themselves so 'chin, that he thought it might
be that they were indolving themselves in a lot of th�ngs that they didn't
need to be involved in. He said that an example of this was in wanting to
looh at �his proposal just to take out the sexist language. He said the
staff cuuld do that. He said he thought the only Commission that was really
involved in this proposal was the Environmental Commission, and he was
concerned about every Commission getting involved in everything the Planning
Commission had before them. He said the oth,r Commissioners could review
this when it came back to the Planning Commzssion.
Mr. Boardman said that in abou�t a year, after th� goals. and objectives
n have been determined, a policy would be set so�that there would be ruies and
regulations about what sort of Lhings would go.to each Commission and �hen
things like this would go to the appropriate Commission before it came to the
Planning Commission.
Planning Commission Meeting - November 5, 7975 Page 5
Mr. �oardman said the purpose of the proposed rules and regulations
� for enviranmen�al impact st�tements was because they feel they are overworked �
' at the State level and they want to decentralize and let the local units of
gover,nment handle the burden of trying to get �he environment straigtened out.
Mr. Langenfeld said this could be the basis for our ordinance on impact state-
. ment procedures.
Mr. Boardman said �he State would be holding �he public hea"ring on this
proposal on �ovember 12, 1975. He said the community would have twenty days
after this to give input. He said �hat when the State adopts this proposal,
it would become law. Mr. Langenfeld asked if �his �ould be a guideline for.
the City and the Environmental Comm;ssion to use. Mr. Boardman said it would
in a sense, but the City would have to do whai this proposes to do when it
becomes law. We could pass stricter.rules and regulations, but they couldn't
be less that what was being proposed.
Mr. Scott said he would like to get back to what Mr. Drigans said abaut
t�e Huma� �,,;ources Co�nission b�ting of� more than it could �hew, �i�E pririciple
being ���� there weren't ser.ious problems in o�r �ocie�y and in our coi�nunity.
He said that as a ma�ter of fact, the starf was nat capable �of discerning
between men and women. They id�ntified Barbara Shea, Vice Chairperson of the
Human Resources Commis�ion as Vice Chairma�. He said that.if these ki•nd of
sexist thought processes were nat corrected and not brought to light, they wo�1'd
be continued. Someone, some4v�here, will have ta address themselves ta this
problem.
n Mr. Scott said they were trving to address themselves to serious nrcblem�•:
_- He said ti�ere ��ere peo�le at �he Lynwood Nursing Nome on welfare who di�n'�t
� have shoes.
Mr. Drigans said this
country like ours and that
paying tax dollars for the
from al�l our ordinances.
was som��hing that should not be going on in a
was a serious problem, but he didn't wan� to be
sta�f spending time �aking out words�such as he a.nd his
Mr. Scott said this was just a way tb do away with sterotyping. He said
for instance, the secretaries who work at City Hall are 100 per cent female.
he said he felt it was one of the responsibilitiesof his Commission to do �71
they could to eliminate sterotyping because it was a waste of human resources.
Mr. Baardman said that he thought the best way to get the sexist 1an����e.
out of the ordinances was to correct every ordinance as it came up �or review,
but it would be too large a job to go through every exis�ing ordinance of'the
City and ch�ck for sexist language.
Mr. Drigai�s said he thoug{1t �he areas the Human Resources Commission should
be concerned about were the eight 6road areas they had developed under their
goals and objectives..
' Mr. Qergman said that although this subject of whether a person is called
� , a chairman or a cf�airwoman seemed frivolous to him, he did appreciate that .
so�e people were very sensitive to this, and in deference to their feeiings, he
�� would make a motion. • �
Planning Commission Mee�ing - Navember 59 1975 Page 6_
m
i'�1 MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Scott, that the Planning Cor�nission
request.�the City staff to be attentive and sensztive to s�xist language in
� any City documents, and when any ordinance or code was subject to review that
• these be deleted. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried
unanimousZy.
Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Baardman if it was the intent of administration
to have the Planning Co�mission look at the proposed rules and regulations
on impact statements first, or send it down to the Commissions first?
Mr. Boardman said the intent was to send it down�to the Commissions, and
the Planning Commission could review those recommendations.
Mr. Drigans said that until the Planning Commission goals and objectives
have been established and policies established, he thought things should be
sent to the Commission that was primarilv concerned with �he subjec�. He
thought the review by the other Commissio��ers could be done at the Planning
Commission level. �
MOTION by Peterson, seconded by-Bergraan, that the Planning Commi.ssion
direct the Environmental �.7uality Commission to review the proposed ru.ies and
regulations for environmenial impact statements from the Environmenta7 Qualita
Council, and determine what effect this docum.ent would have on the C.ity as to
the advaniages and disadvant�ges. This assessment ta be brough�G back to the
�P.Ianning Cor,unission for their meeting of November I9, 1975. Upon a.voice vote,
. Peterson., Bergman, Drigans.and Langenfe.Zd voting aye, Scott na�, tlie motion
` carried.
Mr. Scott said he voted against the motion because he though� this m��ic�n�
��vas too restri cti ve. lie thoughi; ti�e moti on shoul d have i nci uded hi s Commi ss�i on
when he�had already asked to review tihis.
MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Scott, that the Planning Commissian direct
the Human Res�urces Commission to review the proposed rules and regulations for
impact statements from the Environmenta.Z Quality Council, and determine what
effect this would have on the City as to the advantages and disadvantages.
Z'his assessment be brought back to the PZann.ing Commission for their meeting
of November 19, 1975. Upon a voice v.ote, Peterson, Scott, Langenfeld, �atd.n,q aye,
�Ber�g.�ta•n� arid Drigans votiriq nay, the mation carried.
Mr. Drigans said he voted against this motion because he thought Mr. Scott
cc,ulcl review this proposal at his convenience and make his recommendations at
�the next planning Comi��ission meeting when the Planning Commission made their
recommendation. He said he thought it was germarie to have the Environmental
Quality Commission review this proposal, but he didn't th�nk it came under the
goals and objectives of the Human Resources Commission.
� Mr. Langenfeld said he was in favor of the motion because he feit that
i�F any of the Commissions wanted to review this proposa1, they should have the
right ta do so. .
� �� Mr. Boardman said that no one should feel excluded if this was n�t s�n�t
to their Commission because this would be rev�iewed at the Planning Commission
level. He said they should ask themselves if the recommendations they would
Planning Cammission Mee�ing - November 5, 1975 Page 7
� m�ke could be made at the Planning Commission level witha�t it g�ing down
� to the lower Commissinr; 7eve1.
Mr:� Scott said this had been a good learning process of how things
� should be sent�to the lower Commissions. He said that the first motion made
� to send this to the Environmental Commission seemed to preclude that any
other Commission could look at ihis proposal. He said that he would have
had his Commission look at this proposal without a motion. Mr. Bergman said
that if he understood �he process, this would have beEn out of order. It
was his understanding that anything that came to the Planning Conanission and
they decided as a body that it should be sent to a lower Commission was the
only time that something should be directed ta that Commission. Mr. Boardman
said this would not preclude the Commissioner from bringing input from the
Planning Commission to his own Comanission.
Mr. Langenfeld said this was what happened on the billboards. He said
his Commission wan�ed to look at the billboards after the Planning Commission
had comp;�ted their Public h{earzrgs, and i.. w�s a fizzle.
Mr. Bergman said he voted against the motion because he thought all
the Commissions had a lot to look at and they shoul� spend their quality tim�
on the things that most concerned them and that this proposal should go to
the Comm_ission �t primarily concerned.�
Mr. Scott asked how you would get input from the various Commissions then.
Mr. Drigans said that had already been explained. It would be �he Commissioners
^ input at the Planning Commission level.
` 3.. PLF��NING COMMISSTON REUIEW OF COMMISSION'S GOALS AND OBJECTIVES
, Uice Chairman Drigans declared a recess at 9:50 P.M. and reconvened the
m�e�ing at 10:00 P.M. •
Mr. Langenfeld said the Community Develo�ment Commission had comple-ted
their goals and objectives on schedule and he thought they had di�:�...goqd_.job.
The Planning Commissian then reviewed the Co��unity Development goals
and objectives.
Mr..6oardman introduced Mr. Ray Leek. Ne:said Mr. Leek was working.in as
a planning aide`preparing a comprehensive housing plan. Mr. Boardman said he
hoped this would be ready for the Planning Commission to review some�ime in
November. .
Mr. Qergman said the purpose of the Community Development goals and
objectives read "The purpose of community �eve7opment • is to promote a
community for its citizens which will proviae the best environment for the
experience of livi�g".
The Planning Commission reviewed the goals and objectives of the
Community Development Gommission with exnlanations made by Mr. Bergman, �Mr.
Boardman and Mr. Leek as to thp use�of certain-words•�and in what context t�ey
� were used. As this was just a review, all the discussion will not be included
in these minutes, as �hey will be discusse� again when the Planning Commission
were �ormulating their own goals and objectives.
Planning Commission M�eting -�ovember 5,_ 1975 . �Page 8
4. DISCUSSION
ir� Mr. Scott said that Jo:Ann Ric� from �he Sun Newspapers was going to
make a presentation at their meeting of November 6th. He invited any members
of the Planning Commission who would like to come to the meeting to be present.
He said she would be discussing.the role of a local newspaper in our Community.
� He said they would be asking her quesiions on how such ne��papers cou1d �mprove
communications in a community, and how public and private indi�i�ua?� get not�Ees
in the paper of their ac�iviiies,•and�other such questions.
i�1
�
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Scott, seconded by
Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
Commission.meeting of November 5,
R�spectfully submitted,
� ��� J
L. �1 . l .�a�j ���
Dorothy Eve �� , Secretary
Zangenfeld, that the mee�ing be adjourned.
Vice Chairman �Drigans declared the Planraing
.I975 adjourned at 12:OO.P.M.
- . ��� �