The URL can be used to link to this page

PL 06/23/1976 - 30446,� �'�s �� PZANNING COMMISSION MEETING CITY OF N'RIDLEY JUNE 23, 1976 PAGE 1 CALL TO ORDER: Chairperson Harris called the meeting to order at 7:35 P.M. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Harris, Bergman, Langenfeld, Peterson, Shea, Gabel (attending for Wahlberg) Members Absent: Others Present: None Jerrold Boardman, City Planner APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: MAY 19, 19?6 Mr. Peterson asked if when the Vice Chairperson was in attendance the regular Chairperson was sho�,n as absent, or if that was only if there was no one from a particular Commission present. Chairperson Harris said he believed it was listed as the person in attendance. Mr. Peterson said �tha� at the May 19th meeting, Mrs. Wahlberg shouldn't be counted as absent since Mrs. Gabel was there representing her' and Nir. Harris said that in the future it should be noted that the Vice Chairperson was sitting in for the regulax Chairperson at �hese meetings. MOTION by Langenfeld, seconded by Peterson, that the Planning Commission minutes of May 19, 1976 be approved as written. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously, , APPROVE PLAIVNING COMMISSIOi1 MINUTES: JUNE 9, 197b Air. Langenfeld referred to the discussion on page 1 ua�der "Approve Planning Commission Minutes: May 19, 1976", and asked Mr. Boaxdman to explain what he meant. Mr. Boardman said that they had been debating if they could take action without a quorum by sending action on to the Council, and they had decided they could not send on any action to the Council without opening a public heaxing and they could not do that since they did not have a quorum. Mr. Bergman requested that on page 5, second paragraph under "Street Width Standards"� the sentence "Mr. Bergman said that is what was backed down to When a better situation wasn'� avilable, and" be stricken and a new sentence started beginning with �'Mr. Boardman said...". He also noted that on page 5, the last sentence in the second to last paragraph� he had been talking about street humps. Iie said that since this wasn't germane he would requesL that this sentence be stricken. Mrs. uabei said that on page 7� third paragraph, she would like the sentence to read "towards a building to store hockey and sof'tball—eTui�ment" in4tead of "towards the building of a shed to store hockey and softball equipment". � Planning Commission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 2 MOTION by Langenfeld, seconded by Gabel, that the Planning Commission minutes a of June 9� 1976 be approved as corrected. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. ,� � Mr. Peterson asked Mrs. Gabel, with reference to her statement on page 7, if she had read the whole discussion pertaining to that building. Mrs. Gabel replied she had and said she was curious about this and asked if there was additional information. Mr. Peterson explained that the sports associations were asking to build a building free, on a lease basis, and were asking to put it on city property. He said that they had wanted to put it behind the arena but there �rasn't room there� so someone suggested putting it at Commons. However, he continued, the Council requires brick facing at Commons so some of the members of the Parks and Recreation Commission said if they were goi.ng to Commons they would have to conform with the building standards which would require brick faci.ng. He said that the sports associations would be doing all the work and furnishing of the money for the building with the exception of the brick facing� and this is what the $900 was to pay for. Mrs. Gabel said she understood that and suggested this could be discussed a little later when the Paxks and Recreation minutes were received. RECEIVE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY COMMISSIOAi MINU'1'ES: MAY 18, 1976 Chairperson Harris asked Mr. Langenfeld if he wan�ed the Planning Commission to take action on the motion by Mrs. Sporre concerning the Teen Center, and Mr. Langenfeld said he just wanted �o bri.ng this to the attention of the Planning Commission. Mr. Boardman suggested that this be added to the agenda as an additional item. �1 MOTION by Bergman' seconded by Shea' that the Teen Center be added to the agenda of the Planning Commission meeting. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. MOTION by Langenfeld, seconded by Gabel� that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the �vironmental Quality Commi.ssion meeting of May 18� 1976. Upon a voice vote' all noting aye� the motion carried unanimously. RECENE APPEAIS COA4MISSIOiv MINiTTFS: A�AY 25, 1976 Chairperson Harris said he noted on page 38 that the Appeals Coramission also made a recommendation on the Youth Center. � MOTION by Gabel� seconded by Langenfeld� that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Appeals Commission meeting of May 25� 197b. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. RECENE PARKS & RECREA'PION COMMISSION MINUTES: MAY 2l�, 1976 Mrs. Gabel ret'erred to the second paragraph from the bottom on page 1� of the Parks and Recreation mi.nutes, and said that this was the reason for her comment at the last Planning Commission meeting. She said she was wondering in terms oi' Parks and Hecreation i2 priorities didn't need to be reassessed� and added that '�, she got the feeling it was sports oriented and could iind the money Yor things tha� �rere sports oriented� but that other things.sometimes got pushed aside. Mrs. Planuing Comanission Meeting - June 23, 197b Page 3 Gabel commented that at the same time she was pleased to see that they were setting � up a committee to look at this very thing, so perhaps her carmnents �ere a little premature. She added that some youths have other interests besides sports that they �ere not addressing themselves to: Mr. Peterson stated that was difficult to comment on as no other specific programs had been mentioned. Mrs. Gabel said she was referring to the problem of getting the Youth Center going, and kept hearing the comment that Parks and Recreation doesn't have the money in their budget to help them out. Mr. Peterson stated that he didn't think this was �hat Parks and Recreation said. He said he �hought they said that a Youth Teen Center didn't fa11 under Parks and Recreation, and they didn't see where that would fit into the concept of Parks and Recreation within the city. He added that based on the professional staff report that was given to them concerning space requirements' and all things taken into consideration9 it was the position of the Parks and Recreation Commission that they didn't feel it would fit in with their concept. Mrs. Gabel said that she thought that recrea- t'ion should encompass something more than sports, and that perhaps it �as time to take a look at the program. She stated that this was the reason for her comment. Chairperson Harris referred to the Comparison of Recreational Activities informa- tion that had. been distributed at a previous meeting, and Mr. Feterson said this had been prepared by Staff. He stated that the Parks and Recreation Coirmii.ssion also had questions concerning what �as there� so they shouldn't be held responsible for what was on the sheet. Chairperson Harris said he just wanted to get Mr. Peterson's input on same of the a�°eas� and asked if he noticed that it seemed a lat of money �as spent on s�pervisors, officials, and that sort af thing and not ,,� very much on the actual paxticipants. Mr. Peterson s aid that �rould probably be true, because most oi the sports in the city were run by volunteer organizations. He stated that if the ci�ty were to fund them, they wouldn't have very many programs, so it was done on a cooperative basis. Mr. Peterson said that in Babe Ruth base� ball� for example, the city pays half of the umpire�s costs and Babe Ruth pays the other half, furnishes the uniforms, and has volunteer managers. He said the city furnishes the maintenance. Chairperson Harris commented he hadn't understood that as the sheet hadn't reflected that information. Chairperson Harris said there were a couple other areas that were not organized sports that he was wondering about, and in particular general skating. He asked . what 32 WeH. mearit� and Mr. Peterson said that �ras 32 warming house supervisors. Mr. Harris commented tliat maintenance ran almost $10,000 and Mr. Peterson said they �rere questioning the accuracy of ihese figures because it seemed that in the wintertime all the mai.ntenance people were charged against either general skating or hockey, and they felt this was ridiculous. Mr. Peterson explained it was very much like a11 of the Parks and Recreation programs; they are charged against �the budget as a chaY°ge, and when a fee is received from the participant in various activities, this money is then creditied to general revenue rather than back against Parks and Recreation. He further expZained that if the maintenance people did street plowing or other things for the Street Department� �rhich they do every winter, it was still charged against general skating or hockey. He said there urould be an offset from the Street budget, but it would be credited back into general revenue. ' � Mr. Harris said he understood this a little better� and it sounded to him like the accounting should be refurbished a bit. He stateci there were two other areas that concerned him; Playgrounds and Lifeguards. He said a consider�ble amount was sgent in both those areas and they are both summertime activities, and asked Planning Corranission Meeting - June 23, 1976 Page 4 - if the same thing had happened in those areas as did w3.th hockey and general skating. Mr. Peterson answered no, not completely, because the maintenance /'� people do get some of their time charged into actual park maintenance such as maintaining the ball diamonds for the boys and girls� beaches� etc. He said they had talked to the person who had compiled this information and asked about allocations� and she told them they had talked to the supervisor who made a calculation. Cha.irperson Harris said the reason he asked was because under Supervisors they had Director, Supervisor, Soccer, Archery, Arts & Crafts, and a total of $15,178, which was a considerable amount of money. He said there was also a total of $2,227 under Equipment for Games, Crafts, T.C.F., and non-office supplies. Mr. Peterson said that a11 of the money that was generated at the beach concessions, for example, goes back into general revenue; but the help that runs it is charged against the Parks and Recreation operating budget. He stated that for a true picture the offsetting of credits would be needed to see what the costs would actually be. Mr. Haxris said he had one other question on Lifeguards� and asked if the partic- ipant figure of 18�000 was correct. Mr. Peterson said he believed that figure was arrived at on a sampling basis by park usage on a certain number of days. MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Parks and Recreation Commission meeting of May 2li, 1976 . Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. �� RECENE HUMAN RESOURCF�S COMMISSION MINUTES: 3iJivE 3, 1976 Chairperson Harris noted that on page 11t there was an Affirmative Action Program Analysis, and asked if this was what has been done to date. P�Iirs. Shea replied that this was where they stood right now. P4r. Harris asked if they had discussed a goal in this axea, and Mrs. Shea said that the city had a goa1. Mr. Harris asked where they were on this, and Mr. Boardman replied that there was no•intent on replacing anybody that is presently an employee, but if certain people quit then certaan positions would be filled from thi� program. He said that to date they were about 50� there� and �aere sitting pretty good as far as the state review of the Affirmative Action Program. MOTION by Shea, seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Human Resources Commission meeting of June 3� 1976. Upon a voice eote, all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. RECENE CUMM1lNITY DEVElAPMENT COMMISSION MINUTES: JU1VE 8, 1976 Mr. Langenfeld said the Commission should bear in mind the motion on page 16 concerning the Teen Center for flzrther discussion� and Chairperson Harris said it was so noted. � "1 Nlr. Harris ssked how the Sign Committee was coming, and Mr. Bergman said they had their first meeting Monday night. He said they were lacking a member from �-.1 the League of Women Voters� but have found that the League does not meet in the summer. He said they wera told that the representative frora the League would be independent. Mr. Bergman added that a substitute representative from the Chamber had attended the first meeting. He eommented that it was a good meeting, and �� Planning Co�nission Meeting - June 23D 1976 Page 5 successful to get it off the ground, and told the Commission they had agreed to � meet once a month. Chairperson Harris asked if the Bikeway Com�nittee was doing anything, and Mr. Bergman said that the Chairman of that committee should be at the next Planning Commission meeting to bring them up to date. MOTION b�r liergman, seconded by Langenfeld� that the Planning Cbmmission receive the minutes of the Community Development Commission meeting of June 8� 1976. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE APPEALS COMMISSION MINUTES: JUNE 15, 1976 Mrs. Gabel said she would like a correctior� made on page 1� of the minutes, third paragraph frorn the bottom. She stated she �ould like the following sentence added before that paragrapix "Mrs. Gabel said she did not like this procedure, and that while the variance was in order the procedure was not� and if it would happen agaan she b�ould very strongly object". She said this should be followed by the sentence starting "P�Irr. Kemper said...." and "and Mrs. Gabel-agreed" should be stricken. She stated that when she said she agreed she meant her statement should also go on the record. MU'PION by �abel, seconded by Peterson, that the Planning Commission receive the zninutes of the Appeals Cornmission meeting of June 159 1976. Upon a voice vote�`a11 voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. ,� Mr. Boardman told the Commission that the City Council had acted on the variance request by Mrs. Sporre at their last meeting, and had apgroved it according to what the �3oard of Appeals said. He cormnented that it was a bit out of order and . the Staff was a little upset by this also. Mr. Boardman said the .Appeals commission should have tabled the item since she did not have a11 the necessary signatures that night and requested that City StaiY send out notices per procedure. Mrs. t�abel said that was why they put on all the stipulations. . 1. PU1iL1C HEAKINt�• H.EQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PEitMIT, SP #'Tb-07, t3Y NAivCY A�LtsI�: To a11ow a child care center for ten children, per Fridley t,ity Code��ection 205.051� 3, r'� i.n an it-1 Zone (single family dwelling axeas j, to be located on Lot 12� iilock 3, Meadowmoor Terrace Addition� the same being 13l1b Meadotiamoor Drive 1v.E. Mrs. 1Vancy Melbie was present' along with Terry Nagel of the Social Services Department of the Anoka County Welfare Board. MOTION by Bergman� seconded by Gabel' that the Planning Commission open the Public Hearing on the request for a Special Use Permit� SP #76-07, by Nancy Melbie. Upon a voice vote, all voting �ye� Chairperson Harris declared the Public Hearing open at 8:25 P.M. Mr. Boardman said that as stated, this would be a Special IIse Permit �'or a � child day care centsr, and Mrs. Melbie would be having ten children there. He submitted to the Commission a statement of approval signed by ten of Mrs. Melbie's neighbors. Planning Corrmiission Meeting - June 23, 197b Page 6 Chairperson Harris read the following statement out loud: "I, Nancy Melbie, � am making application for a Special Use Permit to the City of Fridley� for having ten full-time children at my Day Care. My yard will be fenced and they will be kept on my own property. I need to advise you of this, and I request your signature for permission or refusal of permission. If you refuse� please state reason for refusal." Mr. Harris noted that all ten neighbors had given their approval. MOTION by Shea, seconded by Bergman� to receive the petition of approval. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye� the motion caxried unanimously. Mr. Boardman stated that since the neighbors have been contacted and there are no written objections, City Staff has no objections to the proposal. He asked if Mrs. Melbie was licensed wi.th the state, and Ms. ivagel replied she was licensed by the State of Minnesota to care for five, and had been operating since November� 1975. She stated that Mrs. Melbie would like to expand to include a greater number oY children; and although the state didn't necessarily require a new permit she must meet city codes to carry on her business. Nir. Boaxdman said that Fridley City Code� Section 205.051� 3, F� would allow a child day caxe center for ten children i.-� a R-1 Zone. Mr. Langenfeld asked if this would fa11 nnder the category of nursi.ng homes� and Mr. Boardman said the code did not really say day care center, but they interpreted a day care center as that type of operation in which there is caring for more than five persons. Ms. Nagel said she understood the reason they needed a Special Use Permit was � because Mrs. Melbie planried to hire someone to help her since she would be taking children urYier three years old. Mr. Boardman stated that as far as the Special Use Permit was concerned� they felt this would be regulated under the hospitals, nursing homes� etc., since Mrs. Melbie would be hiring outside of her home. Chairperson Harris asked about the traffic ineolved in loading and unloading children, and Mr. Boardman replied that ten children wouldn't provide heavy traffic. Nlr. Harris asked what the hours of operation would be� and Mrs. Melbie said basically from 6:00 - 5:30' but they varied depending on the hours of the parent. Mr. Harris questioned if there would be parking for long periods, and Mrs. Melbie replied it would only be a matter of seconds. Mr. Harris then asked if ofi-street parking would be provided for the assistant•, and Mrs. Melbie said that her assistant lived right next door. Chairperson Harris asked if they didn't require the Fire Marshall to look at this, and Mr. Boardman replied that the Welfare Department checked that. Mr. Harris asked how large the fenced-in area was� and Mr. Boardman replied that the lot size was 75 X 120 so there was probably a 50 X 75 back yard. Mr. Langen- feld asked if Mrs. Melbie had the proper liability coverage from an insurance standpoint� and she said she did. MOTION by Peterson� seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Commission close the Public Heaxing on the request for a Special Use Permit, SP #76-07� by � Nancy Melbie. Upon a eoice vote� all voting aye� Chairperson Harris declared the Public Hearing closed at 8:35 P.M. Planning Conunission Meeting - June 23, 1976 Page T �; MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Langenfeld� that the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council appronal of the request for a Special Use Permit, SP �76-07� by Nancy Melbie� to a11ow a child care center for ten children, per Fridley City Code� Section 205.051, 3, F, in. an R-1 Zone (single family dwelling areas), to � be located on Lot 12, Block 3, Meadowmoor Terrace Addition, the same being 13�6 Meadowmoor Drive N.E. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. ° 2. PU�LIC HEARINU: CONSIDERATION OF A PRELIMINAN.Y PLAT, P.S. #76-05, INNSBRUCK NOftTH REPLAT THIRD ADDITION BY DARHEL A. r'Ai�tK DEVELOPNI�;IdT CORPORA�.�'ION :�3ei a rep at of Lots 1 to inclusive, Blocks 21 through 2, and also part of Lot 1' Block 28, Innsbruck ldorth To�mhouses Third Addition, to allow changes in the size of garages� generally located on the �7est side of East Bavarian Pass and South of Meister Road N.E. Chairperson Harris informed the Commission that Mr. Jim London had called him before the meeting to let him lmow he would be late, and he suggested that this public hearing be delayed until the arrival of Mr. London. MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Gabel, to temporarily table the Public Hearing on consideration of a preliminary plat, P.S. #76-05� Ixinsbruck 1Vorth Replat Third Addition� by Darrel A. Farr Development Corporation, until Mr. London arrived. Upon a qoice vote, all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. �, 3. PUIiLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECTAL USE PFRA�IT, SP #?6-08g BY PHILLIP M WiLLSUN: To permit the conversion of a one-family, t�o-story house to a two-family house in an R-1 District (single family dwelling areas)9 per Fridley City Code, Section 205.051, 3, D, to be located on Lot 2, Block l� Froid�s Addition, the same being 1�01 Ironton Street N.E. Mrs. Phillip Willson explained she was present to represent her husband� who was ill and could not attend the meeting. MOTION by Bergman� seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission open the Public Hearing on the request for a Special Use Permit� SP �#76-08� by Phillip M. Willson. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye� Chairperson Ha.rris declared the Public Hearing open at 8:l�0 P.M. Mr. Boardman explained that tnis was a two—story frame home, and according to the City CQde they can't develop a two-family home wi�ihin a R-1 area. He showed the Commission a picture o.i' �he house, and said it was located on the North side of Ironton Street just East of a present two-family dwelling unit�that was be�.ng built. Mr. Boardman said that at this time the City Staff would have no objections to a two-family dwelling as far as zoning purposes go; and they felt that if the design of the structure was proper they could envision a two-family dwelling with no trouble. Mr. Bergman asked if the two-dwelling structure that was being built next door � would be classified as a double bungalow and fall under those requirements. Mr. Boardman said it fell under the requirements of a two-family structure as fax as parking requirements, etc., but it still is in a R-1 area. Planning Commission Meeting - June 13� 19'(b Page H Mrs. Snea asked what the square footage os' tne nouse was� anu A�r. �oardman and t�lrs. Willson ansWered they did not Know. Mr. tioardman said that the lot was � 1j,5bb square Yeet and that lu,uUV.square f'eet was required Yor a doudle bungalow. Mrs. �abel asked how many rooms there were, and Mrs. Willson answered there were four rooms upstairs that would be made into an apartment, plus a large porcn. She added that they would be living in the downstairs apartment which also consisted of four rooms and a porch, and there would oe two stairways. Chairperson Harris asked if they were proposing a considerable amount oi remodeling, and Mrs. 47illson said ttiey were. Mr. Langeni'eld asked if they had complete neating and cooKing elements separate Yor the rental area, and Mrs. Willson said that Was right. I��rs. Gabel asked it' they would be making the upstairs apartment into a one or two bedroom, and Mrs. Willson replied it would be a two-bedroom apartment with separate bathroam and kitchen facilities. Mr;. t�ergman asked if a petition had been circulated or any formal document signed by the neighbors, and Mrs. Willson said she had no signed statement but tne neighbors she had talked to didn't object. Sne said she felt iY anyone had an objection they saould be at this meeting to voice their opinions. Cnairperson Harris asked it they had a one-car garage, and Mrs. Willson said they were planning on buildi.ng a garage that would be laxge enough to include a tennant. Mr. Harris tnen asked if tney were planning on paving tne driveway, and Mrs. Willson said sne wasn't sure, but P2r. l3oaxaman said it would be required to meet all codes. Mr. I,angens'eld said he would like to indicate that due to the age oi this d�aelling it should 'os approved as i'ar as Yire safety was concerned� and Mr. tioardman said it would be required to meet code. A4r. �iergman asked what type ot dwelling existed on each o�� the four sides. P+Lrs. �'1 Willson answered that there were two double bungalows on one side, a eacanti lot which they owned on the other side, a four-plex across the street, a five-family apartment kitty-corner across the street� and a MetrQ S00 gas station behi.nd theme Mr. Boardman explained that the area behind �hem was zoned M-1 and R-1. MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission close t�e Public Hearing on the request for a Special Use Permit, SP #76-08, by Phillip M. Willson. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chai.rperson Harris declaxed the Public Hearing closed at 8:50 P.M. MOTIOIV by Bergman, seconded by Gabel, that the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council approval of the request for a Special Use Permit� SP #76-08� by Phillip M. Ldillson, to permit the conversion oi a one-family, two-story house to a two-family house in an R-1 District (single family dwelli.ng axeas), per Fridley City Code' Section 205.051, 3� D, to be located on Lot 2� B�.ock 1, Froid's Addition, the same being l�O1 Ironton Street iV.E. Upon a noice vote� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. !t. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECTAL USE PERMIT SP #76-09 BY STAV'S SUPERETTE: Per Fridley City Code, Section 20 .101, 3, N, to allow an outside isd'��v area for a hydroponic growing system, to be located on Lots 25 and 26, Block 3, Ree�s Addition, the same being 61�83 University Avenue N.E. Mr. Robert Stavanau was present io represent Stav�s Superette. MOTl'ON by Peterson, seconded by iiergman, that the Planning Commission open the Public Hearing on the request for a Special Use Permit, SP #76-09, by Stav's � �{ �r`1 � 1��1 Plenning Commission Meeting - June 23, 1976 Page 9 Superette. Upon a voice ac�te� all voting aye� Chairperson Harris declared the Public Heari.ng open at 8:5� P.M. I�r. Boardman explained that this would be a Special Use Permit for an outside display area used for displaying small greenhouses, to be located i.n the front of the building in the present parking lot on the University and Mississippi Street side. He said it was already there only because Mr. Stavanau had no other place to store it� and with the understancting that if the Special Use Permit was denied he would remove it immediately. Mr. Boardman showed the Commission Mr. Stavanau's proposal depicting what he planned to do. He explained it would be in a fenced area built up with railroad ties and landscaping would be provided, and the present boulevard area would be resodded and trees would be planted. He stated that the access through the parking lot on Mississippi Street would be cut off. He said this was a portable, for-sale unit. P�rs. Gabel said she saw a. traffic problem with the width that was left for cars' and Mr. Boardman showed where the people drove on the service drive. He said this was a proposal to block that off� and sho�ed where it would be open for a bike path and walk path. He explai.ned thai there was a street improvernent project� and this proposal may save the city money as far as acquisition from fted Owl' too' because iF this was cut off they could staxt their acquisition back further and might not have to pick up as much property. He said he would like to add that with this improvement there would also be a building improvemen�' as they would be taki.ng down ihe yellow facade and putting on a 5hake roof mansard. He added that any improvement that was done, and Mr. Stavanau �as aware of this, would be a temporary situation since he is a renter. Mr. Boardman explained that the property was owned by a doctor, and he was attempting to sell it. Mr. Langenfe].d asked if this was going to be there permanently, including the winter� and Mr. Boardman replied it was. He said it was a permanent display area for this type of system. Mr. Langenfeld said that here again they would be giving a Special Use Permit to the property, and Mr. Boardman said that was correct. Chairperson Harris asked what a hydroponic growing system was, and Mr. Stavanau answered it was growing food stuffs without soil. He further• explained it was a soil-less gaxden using strictly water, and all the buildings were heated. Nir. Langenfeld asked if there was a large degree of heat' and what the maximum temperature was. A�r. Stavanau replied it went up to eighty degrees9 and everything �ras thermostatically controlled. He said it was all self-contained i.n the unit, and a typical heating cost for that size of unit for one year was only about $200. . Mr. Peterson asked if he was planning on growing things in that unit� and Mr. Stavanau replied he was. Mr. Bergman asked what his objective was, and Mr. Stavanau answered hydroponic system sales. Mr. Bergman stated that he was somewhat turned off, and Mr. Stavanau said this would all tie in with a method of justifying the expense of overall beautification of a not too sightly building. He said that looking at the plan� a garden type of spot would be easier to visualize than the littered parking lot they had now. Mr. Bergman explained he hadn't meant to drop his statement there� and said that if there was such a thing as the center of the city, that corner was very possibly it. He said that he thought aesthetically that corner� and particularly that side �� Planning Commission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 10 of the street the superette was located on� lacked aesthetic beauty right now, and to him the addition of tahat Mr. Stavanau was proposing would merely add to ^ the lack of uniformity of building design. He continued that that side of the street right now gave him the impression of crowdedness, it was aesthetically unpleasant, there were parking problems, the occupancy and structures were inconsistent� and visualizing the addition of this structure in the front merely added to that. Mr. Stavanau replied that he felt just the opgosite, and also gelt it would add to his business. He said they would be working with the Staff and they would have to agree that it was appropriate and actually doing what their intent was. He stated that there was quite a bit of dollars and cents i.nvolved in the landscaping to replace what is now blacktop. He explained it would a11 be terraced and redwood chip� shrubbery, and landscapi.ng that would wrap around the front oi the structure. He added that they planned to include the boulevard which was at present just a weed patch. • Mrs. Gabel asked if there would be direct access from the store to this unit� and Mr. Stavanau replied there would be. Mrs. Gabel asked if he believed that vandalism would be less by putting this in the front. Mr. Stavanau answered he did, and stated there was better lighting and the traffic would add as a detem�zt for vandalism. Mrs. Gabel asked if he didn't see a degree of risk involved since the ownership was up in the air, and Mr. Stavanau replied he had waited for seven yeaxs for the owner to make improvements. He said that looking at the potential return profit-wi.se� they felt they could justify the expense as a lease holder' too. �"� Mr. Langenfeld said he would like to indicate one thing that upset hi.m a bit� and that was even though it had been preaxranged with Staff this had gone up e�rithou� a permit' and if a fellow neighbor had stuck this in the back yaxd he would have had to act quickly. He said he certainly wished Fridley busines�s taell' but this type of thing surprised him. Mr. Boardman explained that it went there for security purposes only and with the understanding that if they received any complaints it would be moved. He stated it was a$2,000 str�cture and by placing it in the reax yard where they have present parking problems it would be hampering present traffic flow. He added that they had not received any compla.ints. Mr. Peterson stated that there were certainly a great deal of illegal turns on Mississippi going West, and if some of these problems were eliminated it would be a good thing. He said he felt Mr. 5tavanau should be commended for i.mproving the building since he was not the owner� and added that he had been a good citizen in the business community. He added that he was willing to take Mr. Stavanau's word that this would improee the aesthetics of that corner and not detract from it. Mrs. Gabel asked if there would be room for a car to get through� and Mr. Boardn►an replied there would not be as there would only be a five foot walk area. Chairperson Harris asked if he planned to elimi.nate the blacktop along Mississippi Street also� and Mr. Stavanau replied he did and added that it would tie in with the bikeway. Mr. Boardman sai.d that by request of the city they would be leaving a five foot strip of blacktop so the city could get the bikeway system out of the � 3ntersection. �� Plar�ning Comnaission Meeting - June 23� 197b Page 11. Chairperson Harris asked how tall the fence was, and Mr. Stavanau replied it was � a 6' chain link fence. Mr. Haxris asked how long he envisioned this structure beitig there. Mr. Stavanau replied it was strictly a display unit, but it was for sale, so he really dicin�t know at this point. Mr. Harris then asked what �rould happen if this venture didn't work out very well, and what wou,ld happen to the % area. Mr. Stavanau answered �hat they would have a lovely looking front yard. Mr. Harris asked what would happen if somebady bought this particular unit and it was moved off. Mr. Stavanau said another display would go in there as their intention was continuing displays. Mr. Harris said he was looking for some type of �ssurance that it would not be used for something like a storage area, and Mr. Stavanau said that as he understood it he would then need another Special Use Permit as this one was specifically for a hydroponic display. Chairperson Harris asked if for same reason this unit �aas removed and not replaced� if Mr. Stavanau would agree to sodding the areas and he replied he would. Mr. 5tavanau added that a certain amount of this landscaping and building improve- ment had been their intention for some time' and they had just reached the point that since the landlord wasn't going to do it they felt they must as a part oi good business. Mr, t3oardman sa.i.d that rather than make a statement of sodding, Stafi' would prefer to say complete landscaping in the area where the structure was located. Mr. Ber�man said that aside from the landscaping improvements which he agreed were needed� it seemed to him that this kind of an i.nstallation ought more naturally be placed in the �back of the building instead of the tront, and asked if Mr. Stavanau nad considered tnat, He answered that he had, but would like ^ it loca�ed in front partly for security reasons and partly for exposure. He added that it would look better when it was growing and there were green plants inside� and said he thought the Commission would be pleasan�ly surprised when it was dor�e. Mr. Langenfeld asked if this hydroponic system was a Japanese procedure� and Mr. Stavanau replied it was not. He said this system has been around for centuries and a.dded as a point of interest that during World War II there were 13 million tons of produce produced this way. He stated that it has realljr progressed rapidly from that point9 but had never become a very profitable thing until the more extensive use of PVC and poly because the nutrients that are fed oto the�plants are a11 water soluable. Mr. Zangenfeld asked if he had at least $3,000 invested in this� now, and Mr. Stavanau replied he did. �ir. Langenfeld asked if there would be a considerable hardship placed on hi.m if the permit was denied� other than the initial investment. Mr. Stavanau answered that he would have to find a new home for it. Chairperson Harris said that �ahen he talked to the otaners of that property in the past he always heard it would only be there for a couple more years� and asked if Mr. Stavanau thought that �ras ever going to come to pass. Mr. Stavanau replied h� did not. MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission close the Public Hearing on the request for a Special Use Permit� SP �76-09, by Stav's Superette. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye� Chairperson Harris declared the �"'1 Public Hearing closed at 9:30 P.M. �� Planning Commission Meeting - June 23, 1976 Page 12 MOTION by Peterson� seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission recommend �„1 to the City Council approval of the request for a Special Use Permit� SP #?6-09� b� Stav�s Superette, per Fridley City Code, Section 205.101� 3, N� to allow an outside display area for a hydroponic growing systen, to be located on Lots 25 and 26, Block 3� Ree's Addition, the same being 6Lt83 University Avenue N.E.� with the stipulations as outlined in terms of landscaping and building modification, and with the understanding that some type of landscape would be put into the space if it were no longer occuplied by a hydroponic structure. Mr. Jiergman stated he could not envision any well-organized, aesthetically- plea.sing axchitectural plan made by professional people placing thai unique� unusual, and very different structure in front of that building on that paxticular corner. He said he thought there was a sizeable amount of visual blight in that general area now, and thought this kind of unique facility would just add to it. He stated for these reasons he would have to vote against it. . Mr. Langenfeld asked if it was correc� that unde� the Special Use Permit this would h�ve the element of control for approximately one year� and Mr. Harris said that•was correct. Mr. Langenfeld said the way he looked at it now he agreed with Mr. Bergman, but if there was the element of control on an annual. basis perhaps it -�culd be e�atched more closely and then be more aesthetically pleasing than it was right now. Mr. Peterson AMENDED the MOTlON to include the stipulation that Staff review the Special Use Permit after one year. Seconded by Langenfeld. Mr. Boardmara sa3.d he would like to recommend that the planting that is placed /� around this structure be to such a period in its growth that it would provide the type of landscaping, shrubbery and trees that would be necessary to promote a garden area. Mr. Peterson stated that was implied i.n the motion that he made because both the petitioner and Staff had mentioned it was going to be a cooperative venture between them and so he assumed that between them there would be a meeting of the minds. Nir. Boardman commented he felt Mr. Bergman might be more comfortable with that type of a stipulation. Cha3rperson Haxris said that under the existing circumstances he disagreed with .R�r. Bergman. He stated he thought any improvement in that area would be beneficial to the corner, and if this �,ras denied there would be no improvement and the status quo would remain the same for another seven years or until the building fell down. Mr. Harris said that he agreed from the standpoi.nt of aesthetics that he probably would not t�ant �o see it in front of City Hall, but he thought it was a move in the right direction and it would solve some traffic problems in there. He added that he wished there could be a barrier from the rest of' that parking lot, and suggested some temporary curbing across where it said "40 feet" to keep the patrons from the Canterbury from wandering into the area inadvertently. Mr. Stavanau said he understood what Mr. Harris was talking about, and stated there was no reason they couldn't go right across there with the landscaping. Mr. Harris said he �ras thinking they might have a walkway along side the ties and in through the gate, and added that this might start something iresh in the whole center. Mr� Boardman said he had talked to the Center Manager and while he is willing to have City Staff talk to the other owners, he said he is unwilling to do any �1 improeements on this thing. Mro Boardman explained he was trying to phase that _ buildi.ng out of operation, and after another ten-year period the structure would Planning Commi�sion Meeting - June 23, 19'lb Page 13 no longer be a cost to the property. He said that any improvement on the n, building would increase the length of time that they would have to operate it in order to get the money back from that building. Mr. Langenfeld said he would like to comment that he hoped this would not start a trend that everything from soup to nuts would go out in front of other places. Mr. Harris said he believed that the City Council had already set a precedent as far as this was concerned when they allowed the trailer sales park in front of Holiday Village. He stated that if the city allows trailer sales facing 691t in the Holidy parking lot, then anybody who has vacant parking area that is not used has the same rights to apply foa• the same uses. rir..�3ergman said if the trailer sales function were requested on the coxner of Mississippi and univ- ersity, his vote �rould. have been different. Chairperson Harris said that the trailer sales park was on the corner of 69lt and University and that corner was a far busier one. He stated that many more people visiting the city would see that operation than this one. Mr. Langenfeld said he wanted to point out that he was not questioning anyone's rights. Mr. Harris stated that with the precedent bei.ng set� as far as he was concerned, he was going to note for this pariicular proposal. UPON A ROLL CALL VOTE� Haxris, Langenfeld9 Peterson, Shea and Gabel voting.aye, Bergman voting nay� the motion carried 5- l. PUBLIC HEARING: CU1vSIDERATION OF A PRELIhiINARY.PLAT. P.S. #76-05, INNSBRUCK IdORTH ftEPI,AT THIRD ADDITlONo BY DAFtREL A. FARR. DEVELOFMENT CORPORATION: Being ^ a replat of I,ois 1 to inc2usive, Blocks 21 through 2, and also part of Lot 1� Block 28, Innsbruck North Townhouses Third Addition, to allow changes in the size of garages� generally located on the West side of East Banarian Pass and South of Meister Road iv.E. Mr. Jim London, Mr. Jerry Anderson and Mr. Lorin Woods were present. MO'1'ION by Peterson, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission open the Public Hearing on the consideration of a preliminary plat' P.S. #76-05, Innsbruck Plorth Replat Third Addition, by Darrel A. Farr Development Corporation. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye' Chairperson Harris declared the Public Heaxing open at 9:l�5 P.M. Mr. London, representing Darrel A. Farr Development Corporation� stated that after talking to Mr. Anderson and Nir. Woods he would like to request that this be tabled until the next meeting of the Planning Co�runission as they had some problems to work out at the Innsbruck North To�rnhouse Architectural Control Committee level. He said that these problems would have to be worked out before they could go ahead with their plan, or it �rould be withdrawn. MOTION by Langenfeld, seconded by Peterson� that the Public Hearing on consider- ation oi' a preliminaxy p1at, P.S. #76-05� Tnnsbruck North Replat Third Addition, by Darrel A. Farr Development Corparation, be tabled until the next Planning Commission meeting on July 1l�, 1976, with the Public Hearing open. Upon a voice vote, all voting �ye, the mo�ion carried unanimously. � �:�_ � Planning Commission Meeting - June 23, 197b Page 1!� Mr. �iergman said he had receined some comments from townhouse owners, and their � concern seems to be the lack of open parking and loss of some of same with the proposal. Mr. London said it was so noted. 5. REQUES'1' FOR A VACATION, SAV �76-03, BY ROtiERT SCHROER: Vacate the street easement on the Southerly 33 feet of the Easterly 200 feet of I,ot ?�, Block 2, East Ranch Estates Second Adc�.tion. Mr. Hobert 5chroer was present. Mr. 13oardman explained that this request was brought before the Planning Commission from the Special UsE Permit granted to Kennedy Transmission Company, and that Bob Schroer had submitted a request for vacation of that street. Mr. Boardman said Mr. Schroer had agreed to the easement of 50' as requested by the Planning Commission, and the vacation was for the 33� that went through the transmission company�s property. Mr. Harris asked if there were any lines of any sort in that 33`� and A�r. Boardman replied yes, the city would have to maintain for sanitary sewer. MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commissio�: recorr�aend to the City Council approval of the request for a vacation, SAV #76-03, by ttobert Schroer� to vacate the s�creet easement on the Southerly 33 feet of the �:asterly 200 f'eet or' Lot !�� I31ock 2� East N.anch Estates Second Addi,tion, with the stipulations i'or drainage and utility easements as outlined by Staff. � Mr. Boaraman said that it was his understanding that Mr. Schroer would eliminate the proposed street in the rear and a11 the industrial property will be faced oZ'f of Ranchers Road. Cha.i.rperson Harris said that perhaps at that time they should make a note and tie those split-off lots to the rear lots somehow� as tne abandonment of the road idea would create some land-locked property. Mr. Boardman said that the city would maintain a road easement as long as those lots were maintained� and with a replat that road would be nacated. UPON A VOICE VOTE� all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. 5A. YOUTH CENTER DISCUSSION Mr. Ned.Storla was present representing the Youth Project Committee. Mr. Boardman said he wanted to apologize for not getting this on the agenda. He stated he �ras going to bring it to the Planning Commission after it went to all the member commissions, and it was overlooked. He added that all the member commissions have looked at the proposal and made their recommendations to the Planning Commission. Mr. Langenfe3d said he would like to hear the motions from the Human Resources Commission and the Community Development Commissions to get updated. ^ Planning Coimnission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 15 Mrs. Shea read the following motion from the Human Resources Commission meeting �'"� of April l, 1976: MOT10N b,y Barbara Shea, seconded by Nancy Lambert, that the Human Resources Commission approve the resolution by the YPC and ask the City through the Planning Commission to bring the xouth Center under the auspices of the ParKS and Recreation Department, Mr. Bergman read the following motion from the Community Development Commission meeting of June 6, 1976: MOTION by Dennis Schneider, seconded by Hubert Lindblad� that the Community Development Commission recommend to Planning Commission concurrence with the creation of a teen center in Fridley to be operated as indicated on Page 2 of the Human Resources Commission meeting minutes of April l, 1976 paragraphs one through three and, further� that the City guarantee the use of the library urithin 30 days after acceptance of the charter as a teen center. Also,, that a time .limit of one month be set for each Cammission to appoint a person to the temporary board of directors. If a Commission does not make their appoin�ment urithin the one month period, then the YPC has the right to appoint a person to fill that po�ition on the temporary board of directors. Further, that the temporary board of directors consist of an ex-officio Pa.rks & Recreation Commission member or their designate. Air. Bergman said he �rould like to comment f`urther� and stated that the Community Development Commission ha� this on their agenda on and off for six months. He stated that they had a11 gotten involved in �eneral discussion, had listened to other's comments, and had finally gotten to tne guts of the matter at their last meeting when Mr. S�corla was present. He continued that initially they had been concerned th at there was not a formal operating procedurat af how this would � be run, what hours it would be open, what they would do in it, ii' it would be . structured or unstructured.' as all of these questions were not answered. He stated that they final].y backed off to the Human Resources position at one of their previous meetings where th� statement was made that the youth had put i.n enough time on this and should not, at this poin�, be burdened with a lot of detailed questions. He commented that these could be worked out duri.ng the development of the charter. /"1 � Mr. Bergman said they had gotten into a discussion on City Hall space, and they took a look at the old library and the Parks and Recreation office and the outer office, and concluded that in their opi.nion there was enough space in the Fridley City Hall. He stated that there might have to be some adjustment to occupancy� but it could be made to work. Nir. Bergman con�i.nued that they had talked about possible problems in � lengthy conversation, and from having started from a posi-Eion of roughly 50� for and 50% against, it was interesting �hat by the ti.me they completed their discussions and considerations there �ras unani.mous agreement on� one key point--the thing should be gieen a chance. He stated that �ras the basic gosition of Community Development; it may or may not work' but it should be gieen a chance. The over-view and control of this kind of thing, Mr. l�ergman stated, logical.ly should fall within Parks and Recreation. He said that comments had been made that Farks and Hecreation spends a lot of time with young kids, but not too much time was applied to teenagers. Mr. Bergman continued that Community Development felt commitments should be made by the city at this time� prior to a detailed charter. He stated he wanted to point out that all five subcommittees have studied the proposal and all five have stated on record that they are i.n favor of a youth center. He added that there have been some concerns as to where it shoixl.d be located� who should operate it� will it work� parking problems� � Planning Commission Meeting - June 23' 1976 Page 16 noise� etc.� but yet everyone says they are in favor of it so a starid should be made on it. Nlr. Boardman read to the Commission the motion from the�Parks and Recreation Commission meeting of April 26, 1976: ri0TI0N by Harris� seconded by Seeger, that since the Commission is in favor of' a youth center but not in favor of locating it in the City Hall� the Human Resources Commission be.asked to talk to the people at the Northeast Y and find out the status of their program and see if a workable solution can be made with their facility and our intended use. Mr. $oardman then read to the Commission a subsequent discussion on the youth center at the Parks and Recreation meeting of May 2lt, 197b: N1r. Moore referred to a letter from the Youi�h Project Committee and said he would like to make his feelings known to the Parks and Recreation Commission. He stated he had talked to several people on this subject, and he �aould not be against having them use the Parks and ftecreation Depaxtment's space if they were going to move out to the library area. Director Huff said he would still be a bit negative to having the Youth Center located at the City Hall. Mr. Harris stated that he had given some thought to that, and he was not sure that Parks and Recreation should be involved in the Youth Center. Director Huff commented �hat Community Schools had offered the group to come under their auspices. Mr. Storla said that Corrmiunity Schools, as he understood it, wo statistics be compiled before they would fund the teen center. that the YPC did not have the manpowe� to compile how many cars parking, how many people a day �aould be using it' which program best for it� etc., and Community Schools was not willing to fun original proposal. uld require more He explained would need s would be the d it on the Mr. Peterson said he would like to point out that neither the Planning Commission or any of�the other Commissions had any gower to create anything. He stated that this had to be done through.the City Council, and he thought this Commission should be very careful sdhen they say that Parks and Recreation should be doing this� because they don't have that power. He stated he thought they could save all kinds of time and debate if they just recommend to Council that either they create it or not; then if Council wants to appropriate money that would be fine' and they could put it where�rer they wanted to. He added that he sti11 didn't think it belonged under Parks and Recreation, but if Council wanted to put it there� then that is where it would be. �"1 ��1 Mrs. Snea asked Mr. Peterson where the Youtn c:enter would go, if not under Parks and Recreation, and Mr. Peterson asked where the other ones went in ot�her communities. Mrs. Shea answered tnat most were under the Parks and liecreation Department, and cited Richfield as an example. Mr. Storla agreed that the majority were, and said that trie youth centers that were most similiar to tne one they were setting up were under the auspices vi' the Parks and Recreation Depaxtment. Mr. Peterson said that in all the material ne nad seen presented, he hadn't seen �'Town A" and statistics on how it was operated, its budget, and so on. He continued that when they start talking about Parks and Kecreation and start comparing programs, they have to contact ten cities and come back with data on the activity, funding, etc, He stated he hadn't seen anything like that. Mrs. Shea said that was pretty much what they were asking for now--to have Staff do something. She stated they did not have the facilities in their Commission. ^ Planning Commission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 17 Mr. Storla said tnat they had conducted an educational seminar across the street /`� and about t'ifty people had turned out. He stated that five directors from five difierent teen centers�had attended and discussed their operations, so they nad been through that. Mr. Peterson asked if they had contacted teen centers in other cities. Mr. Storla replied they had gone to Crystal� had talked to the police i.n Minneapolis and the Community Activities llirector, and had gone to tne Northern Suburban one in Coon Hapids. He added that it' they had the time and money they could have had sta�istics compiled, but they didn't have the staif and tnought perhaps the City did. He said that after looki.ng at this f'or six months they �ould like to see it set up. Mr. Langenfelci read to the Commission the motion made by the �vironmental Quality Commission from the minutes of their May lti, ly'tb meeting: MO'1'ION by Lee Ann Sporre, seconded i'or discussion by tirother Sullivan, to recommend to Planning Commission that the City provide comprehensive recreation planning services ana tnat t'unds be used to estcablish diverse recreation options i'or people of al.! ages and that a Youth Program Committee be developed naving a temporary board ot' directors consisting oi' six regular members anct two ex-of'ficio members. Regular members shall �e appointed by the Yollowing groups: one by tne r'ridley City Coun�il, one by the �'ridley Planning Commission, one by the �'ridley Human Hesources Commission, one by the Parks and Hecreation Commission, and two by the Fridley Youth Project Committee. One ex-of'f'icio member shall be appointed by the r'ridley �ity Council and one ny the r'ridley Police 1lepartment. Mr. Langenf'eld said they had discussed this at great length9 and he agreed wi.th Mr. tsoardman that perhaps a space may not be quitie as important as to get the � proper planning and so Yortn to get the project ot'i' tne grounC. He stated it was nis ieeling that once this particular motion was implemented the answer ior the center would take place by establishing all tne committees, boards, etc., then they could make the final determination as ta what they feel is necessary. He added that they had not made an official motion on the use of the City Hall as they felt not enough informa�ion was availableo �1 Mrs. Gabel said that the Board of Appea.�s had also made a motion stating they were in favor of the concept of the Youth Center, but their motion said a "temporary facility" in the City Hall as they felt the space there might prove to be not adequate. She stated the point was they could talk this thing to .death, and the kids had been sent around and around long enough, and it was now ti.me to take some forward direction so they could move on it. Mr. Boardman said it was Staff's recommendation that there be a three-year or possible five-year expansion program within the City Hall area. He stated that the first anticipated space for denelopment would be the library area� and the last space that would be designated (possibly the third year down the line} �rould by the Parks and Recreation area. Therefore� he said, if the teen center does go into City Ha11� Staff would recommend it go into the Parks and Recreation area on a temporary basis (one to three years). Mr. Boardman stated he had been involved with this project since its beginning, and he had a real hang-up that all the Commissions agreed a teen center is needed. He said that as he discussed with the IIZVironmental Commission, he questioned if' a center is what is really needed or if some kind of recreational activity program for youth is the thing that would be the most beneficial. He s�ated he had just heard that St. Louis Park has an operation going on in which they open the junior high school three days a week for teenage youth activities such as dances, use �f swimming pool facilities, use of tennis courts� basket- _:� -..:�=_�;:a Planning Cormnission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 18 ball facilities, games, etc. He stated the question that came to his mind was ^ if the center was really needed or not, and he hadn't seen anyth3.ng that said a teen location is needed. He continued that he had the feeling if it was developed and if it failed, it would be detrimental to the youth development within the corrmiunity. Mr. Boardman said he would like to see several thi.ngs happen as far as if the city is going to be corrunitted to youth; it should be committed in the organization of youth and the recreational activitie� of youth. He thought if this was. to get goi.ng there would have to be more there that said they were going to coordinate this whole program, �and maybe what they need is not a center but the whoZe gamut of recreational function like they have in St. Louis Park. Mrs. Gabel said she would have to disagree rai.th that, and she didn't think the youth would have spent so much time goa.ng around in circles if they didn't feel that was �ahat tney needed. She stated that their feeli.ngs didn't necessarily reflect the youth�s, and suggested they listen to the youths to a degree and give them a chance to set their guidelines. Mr. Boardman said he thought the program was fine to be started but it should be carried on, and said there had to be something from the city to support this action. He continued that if it was felt a teen center should be started and space was allocated in Cit,y Hall' ther� .�hould be more backing it up and more interest in it than just giving them a space. Nlr. Langenfeld said he got the impression that what they were really after was momentum. He stated it was true the youths had been goi.ng to Commission after Commission for some time9 but if they were given a temporary area there might be a big sigh of relief and the whole momentum might fizzle out. However� he ��1, added, he did think it should be given a chance so they could find out. Mre Bergman stated he did not agree with Mr. �3oardman's comments9 and feli what they were talking about was a matter of priorities as far as space was concerned and what Parks and Recreation should be doing. MOTION by Bergman� seconded by Shea� that the Planning Commission concur with the motion from the Community Development meeting of June 8, 1976, and recommend to City Council the creation of a teen center in Fridley to be operated as follows: This you�h center should have a temporary board of directors consisting of six regulax members and two ex-officio members. Regular members sha11 be appointed by the following groups: one by the r'ridley City Council� one by the Fridley Planning Commission� one by the Fridley Human Resources Commi.ssion, and two by the r'ridley Youth Project Committee. One ex-officio member shall be appointed by the Fridley City Council and one by the Fridley Police Department. The temporary board of directors should serve for not more than thirty days during �ahich time they will write the charter, establish the interim rules for the youth center and facilitate the election for regular members to the permanent board. The apgointed ex-officio members will also serve on the permanent board. � Administratively, the youth center will be under the auspices of the Parks and Recreation Department who will assign staff to supervise and carry out the guidelines established by the board of directors. Planning Commission Meeting - June 23, 1976 Page 19 � Further, that the City guarantee the use of the library.within 30 days after aeceptance of the charter as a teen center. Also� that a time limit of one month be set for each Commission to appoint a person to the temporary board of directors. If a commission does not make their appointment within the one-month period, then the YPC has the right to appoint a person to fill that position on the temporary board of directors. �rther, that the temporary board of directors consist of an ex-officio Parks and Recreation Commission member or their designate. Mr. Peterson said if he were on the City Council he would ask several questions that have not been answered yet, as far as he was concerned� such as how many people would be involved, were there any duplicate services within the community, etce He stated that in Parks and Recreation they had asked that the Y be contacted, Community Schools� and if it was going to be a duplication of services that already exist or if they were talking about thirty people out of a pop- ulation of several thousand. He stated he did not think the City Council was going to take action based on the information available9 and he would be a little unhappy if they did. Mrs. Shea said that as far as the Y goes that was still five years ad�ay� and would be strictly family membership and not individual membership. She added if a family couldn't pay about $200 to belong, a member of that family could not go thereo �ir. Peterson said that wasn't true because he happened to be on the Board of Directors for Northwest Y in St. Paul which was a family Y� anc��t.?�ere were many teenagers that participated. Mrs. Shea stated that they n had a one-night a week program in that Y, and Mr. Peterson said he didn�t think that was true. He added that he didn't Irnow what the timetable was for the Northeast Y9 but maybe there were other services that were duplicated. Mr. Storla said that if a youth wanted to go somewhere tonight9 for example� the only place would be the Family �.in Center which was a pinball hall, and there was the question of value of the atmosphere there. He added that they had not come up with any other activities where a youth could go right now� and haven'� seen any duplications. ' Chairperson Harris said they had been talking around in circles, and what it boiled down to was space allocation, �nd that was the hang-up with Staff and Parks and Recreation. He said he honestly didn't lmow i.n his mind if putting it in City Ha11 was going to work� but he felt there should be one. Mr. Boardman said he didn't think that r�as the ma.i.n hang-up, and said he felt they could go with temporary space in the City Ha11 with no problem. He stated he felt they should be thinking of a more permanent type situation, and ab�ut the programs for youth and if that space is oriented to the programs they want. Mro Harris said that then the next step in his mind was to get the thing off the ground, have them put together a board of directors� and at that time determine where the space should be. UPO1V A VOICE VOTE, Harri�, Bergman, Langenfeld, Shea and Gabel voting aye, Peterson voting nay� the motion carried 5- 1. � Mrs. Gabel'said that a number of youths had told her about the ridiculous rules and regulations that were imposed i.n the downstairs Parks and Recreation area where there wexe some facilities for them to use. She stated she was told that when the youth's ten minutes were up� some person gets crabby and Planning Commission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 20 and tells them their time is up and not to come back for the rest of the day. Mr. Bergman said it was a five-minute limit, and would like to ask how many games of ping-pong a youth could play in�five minutes. Mr. Boardman explained that the Paxks and Recreation offices were right off the outside play area, and it was disturbing to those offices, and that was the reason the time limits were imposed. He added that he was upset about the time limits, too� but they were the rules that Paul Brovm set on those things because of the type of admin- istrative activity going on. Chairperson Harris asked Mr. Stor].a if he had talked to District 1J�, and Mr. Storla explained that they couldn�t be in schools during school hours, and after school hours they would be dealing with Community Schools. I�r. Harris said he wondered if the Board of Directors couldn't be appointed and the whole thing organiz �d.� ana at tha� time some discussion could be held with District 14. He said it seemed to him that the school districts had to be involved in it'somehow. Mr. Boardman said that to his understanding, triat was the direction it would have to go to be any kind of successful operation� as a teen center would not provide the type of activites that teens wani:ed� ie: dances� hayrides, etc. Mr.�Harris stated that it seemed to him that these people had carried the ba11 about as iar as they could and have come to the city to nelp them. 6. LU'P SPLI'1' REQUES Split Lot 2, Aud (Zoned ft-2, will Road and I.-694. , L.S. #'(b-Uya tor's Subdivisi be developed as !3Y C�HJ CUNSTRUCTION COPiPANY ( JOH�v IA�AN ): on No. 9� into three building sites. tt-1) . t�enerally located at Hillr,aind ��'1 Mr. John Logan' representing uhJ Construction Company was present. He passed out to the Commission ugtlated copies of the application gor the lot split as the original ones lacked the name and address of the progerty owner. He also distributed copies of a letter from A�r. Maxk Z. Jones� the property owner, granting permission for the lot split. He informed the Commission that Mr. Jones was selling GHJ the lanci contract subject to the lot split, and introduced Mr. and Mrs. Del Johnson, prospective owners. Ke explained they wanted to b�}r the second lot for a future home site. Mr. Logan said he checked with the City Engineering Department to get the water and sewer locations so the connections owould be anailable to each of the three lots. Chairperson Harris asked if he intended on building single-family houses, and Mr. Logan replied he did. Mr. Harris asked if the lots had been checked for size, and. Mr. Boardman answered they were all large enough for single-family under the code and sewer and water was available to a11 three lots. He added th�.t the City Staff had no problem with the application. A4rs. Shea questioned if he was going to have to use quite a bit of fill� and Mr. Logan replied the first two lots would need little or no fill but the third lot may require some. He added that the building site itself would be on solid ground. . Chairperson Harris asked 3f there was a ten foot easement on the side of one of the lots� and Mr. Boardman said that was aahere the sewer and water lines were. Mr..lioardman explained that these lots would face on Hill wind Hoadt and on the other side was more k-1 property. �1 � Planning Commission Meeting - June 23, 1976 Page 21 /..� Chairperson �arris asked about the power and gas, and Mr. Logan said he �as not sure how far the gas wen�� but there was gas to the last house on Sheridan Acres. He stated he had talked to ihe gas �ompany and they said.there would be no problem. He added that he hadn't talked with the power company but there were overhead wires available, and he said they were applying for underground service. Mr. Harris asked if an easement would be needed for that, and Mr. Boardman said that at this time he would anticipate there would be enough room in the boulevard area fox gas r�nd the power company both, but he �ould check it out before this went to Council. � � MOTlOiV by Bergman9 seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planr►ing Commission recommend to City Council approval of the Lot Split Request, L.S. �#76-05� by GHJ Construction Company (John Logan); 3plit Lot 2, Auditor's Subdivision No. 91�' into three building sites. (Zoned R-2, will be developed as K-1). Generally located at Hillwind Road and I.69l�., subject to necessary utility easements. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, the motion caxried unanimously. Chairperson Harr�.s declared a recess at 11:00 and reconvened the meeting at 11:20 P.M. 7. RE-EVALUATION Or' STREET LAYOUT NEAIt NORTH PA13K : ( Pr:TITION 8-1976 ). Mr. liergman stated tha� Community Deeelopment had looked at this and spent considerable time on it, getting into a lot of detail, and had Tom Colbert point out the engineering aspects. He said they had gotten innolved in state aid funding, tahich would be lost if some of these vacations were granted, and got involved in the recommendation of the cul-de-sac and agreed they were undesirable and particulary so when they cut off an access to industrial-type property. He said they also agreed that as far as preserving the oak tree9 it was in the right-of-way but there was no plan for street improvement and therefore not pertinent that any change be made at this ti.me. He continued that if and when street i.mprovement ever w�uld go in, the approval of this request would landlock some property z,rithout street access. In essence� he stated, they saw no reason for the City to yield back gained rights-of-way at the risk of not getting them back or having to buy back property when it might be necessary because oi someone's concern that something at some time might hagpen. Mr. Langenfeld referred the Planning Corrmiission to the minutes of the May 1$� 1976, meeting of the Environmerital Quality Commissiorty and the moti.on they made on page 12 of those minutes. Chairperson Harris said it appeaxed from that motion that they concurred with Community Development. Mr. Langenfeld agreed, and said they had a good discussion on this and Mr. �3oardman had done a good job explai.ning some of this. He said he had indicated that he thought Mrs. Sporre might be creati.ng more problems than they would be solving. Chairperson Harris asked what they were really trying to get at� and Mr. Board- man said they were concerned with several things: 1. They'are concerned about the traffic from the industrial traffic down Ironton on to East Hiver Road. The people who live along there have small children, and think the traffic would be detrimental p to the neighborhood. Planning Commissis�n Meeting - June 23, 197b Page 22 2. Another one of their concerns was the vacation of streets, and were worried that if it shows on a map that there is a street easement �^ then developers would anticipate that to be in. - 3. Another concern was that the map shows behind the residential property a right-of-way at 83� bEtween East River�Road and the railroad tracks. That right oi way is not in. 83rd has been desi�nated as a state-aid road, and Staff has agreed to change this map. �.. They were also concerned about 83rd on North Park side. That is a dedicated right-of-way there. They want to vacaie that portion of Ashton, eliminate the railroad crossing, and vacate a11 of 83rd. Mr. 13oardman stated that City Staff felt that although there would probably never be a railroad crossing at that location, Ash�on to 83rd would have to be m�intained in order to service the properties on Ironton if lot splits occur. He said there was one 1ot split in there already; and although the people in the area say they�are going to keep those properties and never request it, iY they did sell there would be the possibility that the new owners might request it. Therefore, he stated, they did not feel the vacation of Ashton was a good idea. Mr. Boardman continued that as far as on the East side of the railroad tracks was concerned, he didn't feel that vacating the right of way at this time would be a good idea either, and said he didn't see any purpose in it. He said that if the area develops, it most likely wouldn't develop along 83rd, and thought it �o?•,ld just be an exercise in futility. He stated that there was a utility on 81st, and utility easements would have to be maintained. � Mr. Langenfeld asked if there wasn't an implied notation in this for preservaHeon of North Park, and Mr. Boardman replied that to a certain extent there was, said he didn't think North Park wanted an industrial road on its south boundary. He added that h�hemltbecause f�anyakindnofhdevelopmentcgoes in therestherlinees where they ran , could be de�trimental to the road. Mr. Boardman said that as to the question of the oak tree, it was located on Ironton just �ast of the interesection of Ironton and Hugo Street. He stated that the curb that was presently on Ironton runs to Hugo Street, isebl�a�heooak for a little ways and then is dirt road to Ashton and down to Ely, tree did stick within the curb line. Mr. Harxis asked what type of oak tree it was, and Mrs. Shea answered a white oak. Mr� Langenfeld said he would like to bring up two points. First, he said, the Eneironmental Qua?ity Commission felt that the petition was trying to stop something that wasn't even planned yet; and secondly, the �nvironmental Commission made a motion that any development that took place in this area be referred to the Environmental Quality Commission in the beginning stages. He stated he would also like to bring up that he would like this Commission to be referred to as the Fridley E�vironmental Quality Commission because sometimes there was reference to the State Commission and there was confusion. N10Ti0N by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission concur � with the motion made by the Community Development Commission and recommend to the City Council that there be no change to present street patterns as requested by petition 8-1976 at the present time, and that signs be placed at Ironton Street to prohibit industrial truck traffic on Ironton Street. The following considerations apply: �;� � Planning Commission Meeting - June 23, 1976 Page 23 1. Some of.the involved property is not yet developed and may require street serv:i.ce. 2. lndustrial activity may result from additional development adding access pressure. � 3. Until further and more final development plans are presented, the possibility af the right-of-way and railroad crossing on 83rd should not be dropped. 1�. Every consideration should be taken to preserve the tree if road development occurs. Chairperson asked how truck tra.�fic would get out if not down Ironton. Mr. Boaxdman answered that Ashton Street was designated as a State-Aid road, and the whole ictea behind 83rd as an industrial road was to tie in �rith the �oon Hapids Development. However, he continued, Coon Rapids has tentatively come°up raith an internal road system in that axea; and therefore if $3rd would go in it would be a residential road wi.ichin the city. He said that truck traffic out of' that � industrial area should be routed doum Ashton to 79th and out at 79th. UPOri A VOICE VOTE, a11 troting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 8. STREET WID'I'H S'1'AidDARD5 Mr. Boardman stated that the memo from '1'om Colbert dated May 28, 1976 vn tnis �� subject was seli-explanatory. tie said there axe set street width standards as io.Llows : Heavy Industrial Park Municipal 5tate Aid Street Arterial & Collector Resi- dential 50 feet 1t1; t'eet 3b ieet Ho�rever, he said, there are examples of otrier size streets. He continued that some oi them are based on environmental reasons, some on certain conditions in a the area, or other things. Mr. tsoardman said that the City Council has the authority cahen a plat was deing done to determine the road size. Another tning that determines it� he said� was the amount oi' parking that would be needed in tne area; or if no of'f'-street parking �ras going to be a.11owed that woula also have some determination on the road �ridth. He stated there were variables that could be looked into. Mr. Langeni'eld ref'erred the Commission to page 6 of the minutes of the Planning Commission mee�ing of June 9, 1976, and said Nir. 13ergman's statement in the 6th paragraph very clearly expressed his feeling at this time. He asked if they were supposed to make a policy statement or just agree with what they had read. Mr. Bergman said that he and Chairperson Harris had discussed this and agreed that a policy statement should be presented from this Commission to identify ^ and reinforce the propriety of standards. He suggested the followi.ng in addition ' to tahat A9r. Colbert had defined: Planning Commission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 2� Heavy Industrial Park Municipal State Aid Street Arterial & Collector Residential S e lected or Problem Areas 50� curb to curb - 66� right-oY-way ltl,t' curb to curb - 60� right-of-wa� 36 � curb to curb (providing parking on both sides) - 50' right-of-way 31� curb.to curb (parking on one side) - 1�5' right-of-way Mr. Langenfeld asked if the last one was more in line with something like lnns- bruck, and Mr. Boardman said it would be. He said that due to the develop^�ent of the terrain, it might be such that those structures could not be shifte� and still preserve the character of the development. He stated in that case a smaller street width ��rould be appropriate, and added that another thing to consider was if the road was coricrete. Chairperson Harris said he thought some mention should be made of that. He stated it seemed to him that under certai.n circumstances it would be to the city�s advantage to have the concrete streets. He continued that in those cases where there was a naxrow street and parking was restricted, or if there was a problem axea for one reason or another, he thought they should seriously think abaut going to concrete streets. He added that they may cost more to begin with, but in the long run the streets last longer� maintenance is much less, plus there is a better driving surface. Mr. Hergman said they had gotten do�an to a 31' curb to curb width which provides for parking on one side and asked if there should be consideration for a narrawr�r street than that �aithin a standard. Chairperson Harris replied that he felt under certain circumstances there could be, bu� there would have to be a couple of criteria met. First of all, he said, there could be no on-street parking; and secondly9 he thought they should be concrete streets. Mr. Boardman said he felt a narrow street like that should not be in a residential area because of paxking, and rir. Harris said the problem was that they had already done it. He cited �nnsb�ruck as an example, �ahere even the private roads �aere set up with a 2lt� driving surface. Mr. Boardr.ian sai.d that if they did go to a residential a.rea with a 2�.' street with no on-street parki.ng, it should be similar to what they did in Minneapolis with their parkway system. He continued that in a residential area pull-off� should be provided to allow for some off- street paxking. Mrs. Gabel asked about snow plowing, and Mr. Boardman said he didn't think there was much of a problem. Mr. Bergman stated he �ras trying to think of a case where that would be done, if not in residential. Certainly it wouldn't be in industrial� he said. rir. Boardman said the only place he could think of would be perhaps, a service•road into a park area. He said another thing it would do is narrow the road enough so it wouldn't be used as a dragstrip, and added that if on-street parking wasn't needed there was no sense in going with a wider road. � Mrs. Gabel said she felt it was time some firm policy �aas set up and that it not be so negotiable. Mr. Langenfeld said he was very concerned and thought the city should stiek to its guns as far as the standard �aas concerned. ^ � '�1 Planning Com�ni.ssion Meeting - June 23, 197b Page 25 ^ MOTION by Bergman� seconded b,y Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission announce to the City Council and to the City Administration their concern for standardization of street widths� and recommend to Council the adoption of street width policy as follows: � Heavy lndustrial Park Nlunicipal State Aid Street Arterial & Collector Residential Selected or Problem Areas Service Drives 50' curb to curb - 66� right-of-way l�4� curb to curb - b0' right-of-way 36' curb to curb (providing parking on both sides) � 50' right-of-way 31' curb to curb (parking on one side) - 1�5� right-of-way 21t' curb to curb (no parking) -!t0' right-of-way It is the intention af the Planning Commission that these standards be adhered to�in any considerations and recommendations-involving street widths. Mrs. Gabel asked what criteria would be used to determine selected or problem areas� and Mr. Peterson suggested it would be well to strike the selected or problem areas from the motion. He suggested handling anything that was a unique situation as it came up, and thought they should come before the various Commissions and be debated on the merits of that particular street. A7r. Boardman said if this was established as policy, they could then request a variance from this and go through that procedure. . � Mr. Bergman agreed that the label "selected or probl.em areas" was a:�ad cnoice9 ' and suggested the term "li.mited parking". Mr. Harris suggested sa,ying 37-P and 2�� streets with variance, but Mr. Bergman said he �aas thinking that in some cases a 31' �:th parking on one side would be the proper street tlridth' and it wouldn't make sense that there �rould have to be a variance for that. Mr. Peterson said that in all the areas in Fridley that had a 31' street tiaith parking on one side, he was not sure. he�lrnew of any area where it really fit in. Therefore, he continued, th� 31i and:�.2lt' streets should require a variance�because it should be a special use for a specific purpose. rlr. Harris said then if one- side parking was desired' it eould be stipulated at the time of the vaxiance �process. Mr. Bergman At�fENDED the MOT10N to delete the Selected or Problem Areas and Service Drives, and add the following: In special situations 31' curb to curb (l�5� right of way) or 21t' curb to curb (LtO� right-of-way), requiring a variance request. Seconded by Langenfeld. UPUN A VOICE VUTE' all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. 9. CONTINUED: RECONI�+iENDATI0N5 ON HUMAN DEVELQPMENT GQALS AND OBJECTIVES MOTION by Peterson, secondecl by Bergman, that the Planning Commission tab�e this subject until the next scheduled meeting. � Planning Commission Meeting - June 23� 1976 Page 26 , ADJOURivMENT �'1 MOTION by Gabel, seconded by Bergman, that the meeting be adjourned. Upon a -� voice vote� all voting ay.e� Chairpe�son Harris declared the Planning Commission meeting of June 23, 1976 adjourned at 12:17 A.M. by unanimous vote. Respectfully submitted, . , Sherri 0'Donnell Secretary � �1