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PL 07/11/1976 - 30447� � y PLANNING COND�iI�SION MGETINIi C1'1'Y OF FRIDLEY JULY llj, 1976 'PA(;E l CALL TU OitDr;rt : Chairperson !�iarris called the meeting to order at 7:36 P.M. ROLL CALL: I�fembers Present: Harris, �ergman, Langenfeld, Peterson, 5hea, Gabel (attending for Schnabe�. ) Members Absent: Others Present: None Jerrold �oardman, City Planner APPROVE PLANNII�G CO::`MISSION i1IIJliTFS: JUNE 23, 1.976 Mr. Bergman stated that on page 1l�, 3rd paragraph, it should read Mr. N.obert , Schroer was not �resent. � Mrs. Shea said she nad �. couple of minor changes, and noted tha� on June 23rd Mrs. 1nlahlberg was no longer ;Jahlberg but Mrs. Schnabel. She also stated that Mr. Boardman's statement on page 9, second paragraph, gave the impression they were discussing more than one greenhouse, and asked that "small greenhouses1° be changed ta 1°a small greenhouse". Ntr. Langenfeld asked that his statement on p�ge 9, 4th paragraph, asking if' there was a large degree of heat be changed to excessive heat. He said he also wished to explain �that on page 10, ltth paragraph, where he was talking about if a fellow neighbor had stuck this in�the back yard, his idea was to merely say that Staff would be the first to be right there to make him move ite Mrse Gabel stated she would like the following sen�ence added to her statement on page 19, last paragraph (continued on page 20}; Perhaps someone could look into this and see if something couldn't be done so a better situation could be set up. • MOTION by Langenfeld, seconded by Peterson, that the Planning Commission minutes of June 23, 1976 be approved as corrected. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RF.CEIVE 1�ZI�UTES Or T'riE SPECIAL MEETING Or' THF. PAHKS & RECREATION CUMMISSION : JUNE 1 , 197 Mrs. Shea noted on page 3� of the minutes, the last sentence in the btn paragraph, which read: At this point in time, he (P1r. Peterson) doesn't think our ordinance i�i is really set up to allow the Commission to create project committees without ° appointing a chairperson for them. She stated that the iiuman Hesources Commission had,a completely opposit.e viewpoint, and wondered if this shouldn't be discussed �� Planning Commission Meeting - July 14, 1976 Page 2 at some point. She added that tney allovaed their project committees to elect their own chairperson. Mr. Peterson stated that the new ordinance implied that the person who was a member of the Commission could serve, or that the Commission could a.ppoint someone other than the Commissioner to be the chairperson. t�Irs. Shea disa.greed, and said it didn't really say that one taay or another, and she felt it needed clarification. She stated the committee ma,y be chaired b,y a member of the Commission and at least one member of the Commission shall act as liaison. Mr. Boardman stated he thought it was prett,y mur.h the prerogative of the Commi.ssion when they set up the r�gulations for the committees. Chairperson H�,rris said that was the way he understood it, and added that he thought it was within the . realm of the individual member comriissions and the �;ay they wanted to handle it. Mr. Peterson said he just didn't want to be giving wrong information to th� rest of the Commission, but there was no problem as far as he uras concerned. rirs. Shea asked if it would be possible to get a map at some time from Paxks and Recreation on the project carimittee areas, and hIr. Boardm�.n passed out to the Commission copies of the maps. MOTlON by Peterson, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Special r4eeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission meeting of June 14, 1976. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. � HECEIVE ENVIRONM�'NTAL QUALITY COA�IISSION MINUTES: JUNE 15, 1976 Mr. Lan�;enfeld stated that the la.�t sentence in the l�th para�;raph on page Lt0 should read must instead of most. ?-ie also commented that on page�l�?, the last sentence in the third paragraph should read Lead Anoka County �gineer. Mr. Boardman said he wouZd like to discuss some of the problems that the Fridley Environmental �uality Commission was having in finding a direction to go--their scope. He stated he thought it mi�ht be tti�ise to have some direction come down from the Planning Corunission to the Envi.ronemntal Commission. •Mr. Harris suggested adding tnat as Item 3A. �"1 r'"1 MOT10N by Peterson, seconded by Bergman, that the Environmental f)uality Commission's direction be added to the agenda as Item 3A. Upon a voice vote, all votin� aye, the motion carried unanimously. Chairperson Harris asked Mr. Langenfeld where they �rere on the mining ordinance, and Mr. Langenfeld said the Commission members had decided to read Code 70 and the mining ordinance and also Golden Valley's and take down their comments. He said they then wanted to come up with a new Code 211 mining ordinance. MOTION by Shea, seconded by �angenfeld, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Environmental �uality Commissian meeting of June 15, 1976. Upon a vaice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimousl,y., ''.'1 . I � � /'1 P2anning Corunission '.:eetin� - July 14, 197b Page 3 ttEC�Iv� PA.�nS & RFC��.ATIOfJ COP�IISSTON MINU`I'ES: JUNE ?$, 1976 i:r. Peterson saia ne would like to,�point out the two items that were added to the a�enda on page u6. He state�i that these were items that' by motion� �,rere to be aart of i:�e June agenda; ��ut due to an oversi�ht the,y w�re inadvertently left off. ::r. L3nger._°eld state3 that he had attended the J�ane ?_8th meeting of the P�rks and Recrea:.ion :.or�.^�i�sion a.nd commented that NIr. Peterson handles a Conur.issi.on very aell. Gnair�erson �arris �aid that he had a question on project committees, and noted that as ne read through he noticed there •,rere some committees that seeme� t.rell- stafied and some k*eren't so well-staffed. A4r. Peterson said that when the idea �•:as f�rst �rou��t to the rest of the Cc�mmi�sion there tended to be some doubts that the�r kTould be able ta fill thirteen neighborhood project committees, so the course of act�on that was decided upon was that the Commission would take the responsibi�ity �o appoint thirteen chairpeople. He stated that each Commissioner aras to bring in all of the names of people he knew who wc�uld like to serve. :ie contir.ued that they had gotten a front page article in the Sun stating that an�rbad�- who was interes�Led should call in, and memos were sent to each nember of �he °lanning Commission and each Cit,y Council person asking for suggestions. N.r. Peierson stated that the reason same areas have more names than others was because they didn't get many names suggested out of a neighbor� hood. � Chair�erson harris r.oted that in neighborhood 11 there was no one on the committee. y h:r. Peterson sa:.d he would like t.o respectfully note that rlre Harris, a.s Chair-� person, Vras given t��e opportunity to submit r�ames for each one of the neighbor- hoods; and also, the Park Commissioner who accepted responsibility for that particular area had nai sent in any namesa Mr. Peterson stated tnat at tnis point t,he chair t,*ould probably exercise his prerogative and make an arbitrary appointment, but that was against the rules of procedure that was established by the Com�ission. :ie added that something would be done; eithe.r the chair would exercise h�s prerogative or the Commissioner �Tould be contacted or�e more time ana asked iar a name for that area. �1 �= Chairperson Harris asked if Mr. Peterson had received the list of names he had submitted for area �i. Mr. Peterson said he was sure they did, but he couldn't say he handled it personally. Mr. Harris said he had pive� r1r. t�oardman a verbal list, and he had written it down. hir. Boardman stated he had given that list to I�lr. Peterson. Mr. Harris said he would be sure to give Mr. Boardman another list, and added that his concern was that every area get representation. Mr. Peterson said he wanted to comment that sc�me of the Staff' and some of the Commissioners were astonished and very pleased at their last meeting when they had the classr�em al:�ost f'ull of interested people who had volunteered to serve an a project co:nriittee. He furthCr said that they had 11 out of 12 appointed chairpersons attend, plus four or five people in addition to the chairpersons. He said it was even eeyond the expectations that he and Mr. l�oardman had. Mr. Peterson told t:�e members o2' the Commissian that ii they had names to go in any Planning �ommission Meeting - July �4, 1976 Page � area to please submit them as they were still working with the chairpeople. He also pointed out that the names i'or each project committee would be submitted � to the Commission for review so tney wonldn't tiave one chairperson and four - neighdors, as tney V�anted representation from the entire neighborhood. MO'1'ION by Peterson, seconded by tiergman, that the Planning Commission receiv�-. the minute: of the Parks and ltecreai;ion Corrunission rneeting �f June 28, 1976. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE APPEALS COi�IISSION MINU`l'FS s JUNE 29, 1976 Mrs. Gabel said that these minutes were not available at the Appeals Commissian meeting held July 13th, but in readin� them over she did not see any corrections or additions. Chairperson Harris said that again he would like to commend the Appeals Commission for their diligent work, and added that it seemed they were handling a vast amount of•work lately and doing it in an expeditious manner. � MOTION by Gabel, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission receive the minutes of the Appeals Commission meeting of June 29, 1976. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Mr. Peterson said that before moving on to the next item he k*anted to comment thet the Parks and Re�reation Commission had a special meeting on July b concerning the budget� and he had hoped that the minutes would be available at this time. ^ Mr. Boardman explained�those minutes taere in the process of being prepared. � t�'Irs. Shea noted they had not yet received the minutes of the Human Resources Commission meeting of July 1, 1976. Chairperson Harris suggested these minutes be held and added as 3B on the agenda. MOTION by Shea, seconded by Gabel, that the Human Resources Comr►ision minutes of.�he July 1' 1976 meeting be added as Item 3B on the agenda. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. . 1. TABLED: PUBLIC HEARING: CQNSIDERATION Or� A PRELIAiI�AxY PLAT, P.S. ��76-05, INNSBRuCK NORTH REPLAT THIRD ADDIlION BX DAxHEL A. %'AttH Dr�1i�;LOP��;NT CUHP- OHATION: Being a replat of Lots 1 to inclusive, Blocks 21 through 26, and also part of Lot 1, lilock 28, lnnsbruck North Townhouses Third Addition, to a11ow changes in the size of garages, generally located on the West side of East Bavarian Pass and South of A7eister Road N.E. Public Hearing open. Mr. lfoardman explained that Pir. James London had called and asked that this item be continued as he could not'attend this meeting, rSOTION by Peterson� seconded by liergman, that the Planning Commission table the Fublic Hearing on consideration of a preliminary plat� P.S. �#76-05, lnnsbruck � North Replat Third Addition, by Darrel A. r'arr Development Corporation, with ' the Public Hearing open, until the next regular meeting of the Planning Commission. Upon a voice vote' all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. Plannin� Commission Meeting - July 1�� 1976 Page 5 2. PU�LIC HEAHINU: RE�UEST F'OR A SPECIAL USE PE1��IT SP �76-10, BY YOUVA � U. R: er �r1 ley Cit,y Code� S�cti�,n ?� e�5r, 2, A. t,o a.:l7:�w the cons�ruc�ion of a second accessor,y building, a detached double �arape for storage of two Model "A" automobiles, on Lot 20, lilock !t, Moore Lake Hills Addition, the same being 1337 Hillcrest Drive N.E. Mr. Youva Klucsar was present. MOTIO�'V b,y Petersony seconded by liergman, that the Plannin� Commission open the Public Hearing on the request for a Speci�.l Use Yermit, SP �#76-1.0, by Youva Klucsar. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris decl.ar�d the Public Hearing open at 8:05 P.M. NIr. Boardman explained that �this was a renuest for a S�r:cial Use Permit for a second accessory building to house tVro NIodel "A" au�omobiles. He said that at the present time the cars were outside and r:r. Ylucsar would like to construct a�two-car garage to store tnese in, and added that he presently t-iad an attached garage to the house. i�Tr. �ioardman explained this would be located in the rear yard toward the Northwest corner of tne property� and �aid tnat Staff had no obaection's to this �.aith two stipulations: 1) This garage cannot and vaill not be used for home occupation, and 2) It must meet all setback code requirements and cannot be set any closer to the front yard than the neighboring house to the �dest. Mr. Klucsar stated that he *�aould be wil.ling to meet al1 the regulations oi' the City of �'ridley. He said that this gaxage l�ould be used to store his n cars because they were-not being used ior transportation, and he also liked to keep his front garage clean so tahen the garage door was open it ti•rould loo}; neat and not cluttered. ,,. Chairperson Harris asked hoti,r large a building he was propo�ing� and I�Ir. klucsar anst•rered about 22 � X 22 � or 22' X 21� �. He said he t�aould be willing to follot•: wha�ever the city ordinance said, but the main thing t��as to get. tne cars undPr cover. Agr. Klucsar stated that he taas told zahen he moved in that he could build another garage, and if he had lmotan he couldn't he wouldn't have bought the house. •I�7rs. Uabel said she wou�.d like to icnota hot�r big the lot �Tas, and A1r. Klucsar replied it was approximately 10?_ � X 1!�!t' . He added that the garage :aoulc� be alriost out of sight because trees wou �d be hid �n ; it9 :�rd t'.;erc: i,r,�u7_�z r� no drivet�*a,y. P�?rs. Gabel then aslced if Code di.dn't require him to have a drivetti*a.y to his garage, and P•1r. Eoardman said they rrould have to take a look at the situation as he i�as not sure if it would be required or not. Chairperson Harris asked if these vehicles were licensed, and Mr. Klucsar answered that they were licensed once, and that was a11 that was required. He explained they could not be used ior driving all the time like a regular car, but only for parades or shows. Mr. Bergman asked if the requirer�ent for a S�ecial Use Permit wasn't relati.ve to the size of the second accessory buildin�� and P1r; Boardman answered over � 2lt0 feet. h1r. Harris pointed out that rir. Klucsar was proposin� almost double that. � Planning Commi�sion Meeting - July ).la, 1976 P1�e h P•ir. Lan�enf e1d said he z�rould like to ask if hir. Kluc�ar �rorYed on tFie::� Aio�:el r"� "A"s and just kept them up as a hobh,y, and I4r. Y:luc�ar said t,r,at °i�ir.,; a' lat _ tire or polishing them was about the extent of t�e �rorY he did on ther:. He added that they did not renuire much vrorl: as the;� were in �;ooc: sh�.r_e. :�,r. Lan�enfeld asked if there s•ras a lot of traffic �TiE'Op1P, or busine:�:,es) comin;; on the premises to loo� at the automobiles. i�r. }�lucsar r��plied t:�er� z•*er� not, and said he took the cars to shottis like at Apache or Har I�iar� but people did not come on his premises to see them. Mr. Peterson said he wondered if rir. Klucsar understood the stipulaticns .•:r. Boardman had mentioned, an.d pointed out that one �ras that it ,�:ouldn't be 4 home business. I4r. Klucsar said he thought he understood theM an�i t•*ou.:' d follow any rules he had to. He stated this i•ras not a busines�, and explained he was retiring from his job and did not raant to be the richest man in the cemetary but Uranted to have a little fun before he got there. Chairperson Harris asked if it would be agreear�le that the stucture be co�^^atible �rith the existing structure, and rZr. Klucsar replied that the ouiside :•�ould be just as nice as his house. He explained that he had too much invested i.n his house to make it be worth less money or have the neighbors get mad at ?�im. He added that axound the corner from his house there i�ras another d�relling that had another two-car garage in the back� and it looked very neat. iie stated he felt this would look better than having his t�•ro cars covered ,•rith a tarp, and he �aari��ed to keep his neighborhood looking nice. Y•Ir. Harris said he r►eant would the outside finish of the garage be compatible taith the house and er.isting � structure� and Aqr. Klucsar replied it would have the same siding as his house and would look as if it were originally built at"the same time. !-� Mr. Langenfeld noted that Mr. Klucsar wished to have this double garao� that. the storage of two I�iodel "A"s � and asked if it i.*ould always be used Mr. Klucsar explained that he did have other vintage cars so he r�ight take one of the Model "A"s out and put his 193� I3uick in� but as long as he li�led that was a11 it would be used for. He further explained he otmed other propert}T where his other automobiles krere stored. He stated that after he l�ras gone the new oz,mers could probably use an extra �arage as one garage really t�asn't enough for a house that has five bedrooms. rir. Langenfeld said that ,•rhat he was trying to get at was that maybe by definition it would be nothing but a storage buildi.ng. Chairperson Harris said it rras a second accessory building in excess of 2lt0 souare feet, whether it was a garage or a storage building� so it did require a Special Use Permit. Ai0'PIOIY by Peterson, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission close the Public Hearing on the reauest for a Special Use Permit, SP #�76-10, b}* Youea Klucsar. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye� Chairperson Harris decla.red the Public Hearing closed at 8:17 P.P�7. r10TI0iv by Langenfeld, seconded by t�ergman, that the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council approval of the request i'or a Special Use Permit, SP �76-10� by Youva Klucsar, per N'ridle,y City Code, Section 205.�52, 2, A, to allow the construction of a second accessory building, a detached douhle � gararge for stora�e of two riodel "A" automobilES� on Lot 20� ttlock l�, Noore Lake Hills Addition, the same being 133'( Hillcrest Drive� N.E., with the � Planning Commission Meeting - Jul,y 1Lt, 1976 Page 'f following sti.pulations: 1) The garage cannot and will nc�t be u�ed f'or home occupatior�, and 2) It mu�i; m�et �11 �etback co�i� renuirement� and �annot be '� set an,y cln,^,c•r to thA front yard than the nei.�;hboring house to the ��'est. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, the motion c�rried unanimously. 3. VACA't70;� RE:`i1F,S'1', 5AV �176-��t, BY KA:��:�� A7I.�rtO?�7Ar� : To vacate the unimproved ailey in �lock 11, �prin� tirook Parr. Addition, lying be�;ween Liberty Street and r.l,y Street iv.E. Mr. Boardman explained�tnat a petition had been received requesting vacation of the 12' unimproved clirt a11ey. He said that the peo�le who signed ttie petition were noted E�rith an asterisk on the mailing list on page ti11, and noted that 11� out oi' 23 families nad signed ito tie said tn� alley was being useri by mini-bikes and dirt nikes, so it was requsted that it be closed. P�ir. ts,oardrian said tnat the City did ha�e a. dr�inaQP <.r;d utilit�� e �seMer,t, �lo;-r:� there, �o if �he alley was vacated the easements would have to be retained. He explained that people both for and a�ainst the vacation were �resent, and Chairperson Harris suggested hearing the pro side firsi. Mr. Chaxles Spra.fka of ?80 Ely Street N.E. stated that he would like �o explain the logic of why tney were proposing the alley be vacated. He said the first question to ask Taas, is it neces�ary to keep the alley open? He stated that in trying to arrive at whether it should be l:e�pt open or not, the fbllowing facts should be considered: . n lo Th� alley is not main-tained in the winter and is not plowed. If it was necessar�T to have an a11ey, the.City would maintain it. 2. In terms of fire safety, there are fire hydrants on the street on both sicies.. 3. It is not necessary for any of the 2� residents to haee such an alley to allot�r them to get into their garages or driveways� as in all instances the homes have access from the street. One home does have access from the alley, but also has access from the street. For these reasons, rfr. Sprafka stated, he believed it was not absolutely necessary to have this alley open. He said if �;his premise was correct, then he believed it c�:as important to ask what the will of the majority was of the 23 residen�es along the alley. He stated that to his k�est informa-L•ion at this time, there were 1tt naries subMitted, tahich were the majority. He added that he believed t;ao poa�3e had asked tb have their names removed from the list, which still left 12 names out of 23. hlr. Sprafka poin�ed out that this was noi: to say the remaining 11 �rere aIl opposed, as two or three might be in question. , AZr. Sprafka said he believed the democratic principle should be to follow the . ti�rill of the majorit,y. l�e continued that most of the arguments that taould be he.ard at t}lis meeting �JOUld be for or against the alley for different reasons as it �rould• provide a convenience for some citizens and an inconvenience for � others. He stated that it should be the decision of the Planning Commission �'�-� Planning Commission Meeting - July l�, 1976 Page 8 to decide what the ma,jority of the people want� and they were willing to abide by the will of the majorit,y of the people. . Mrs. �abel said she understood his points� but noted that he hadn't stated any reasons for wanting the alle,y closed. I•ir. Sprafka said that it pre;�ented a safety hazard for the children of the neighborhood as there were bushes pernaps three feet high� and there was an unnecessar;,� risk that a child could be hurt by a mini-bike or automobile drivir.g throu�h the alley. He also pointed out that it Uras a dirt road and therefore verti� dusty and diri;y, and th�re were a lot of weeds gro�aing there that �he City of Fridley does not maintain or try to control. He added that there were a number of motorbikes from other parts of the City thaf� ride through the alley also. He said to sum it up, it was unsightly and dirty� it was a safety hazard, and the housekeeping by the City af r'ridley has not been adequate. Mr.�Langenfeld asked �rhat the extent of use was of this alley right now other than mini-bikes. Mr. Sprafka said -there was one family that used it to any great extent right no•ra. He added that perhaps an automobile Urould go through the alley two or three times a day' maybe more; but the vast majority of use came from one family. Mr. Langenfeld said Mr. Sprafka had mentioned dust, and asked him how he would feel if the alley �rould be paved and became a regular thoroughfare. Rir. Sprafka said he would be opposed to it because the risk factor would be increased. He said that in terms of maintenance he was not asking that it be paved, but tnat some of the holes be filled in and the weeds cut. i•Ir. Langenfeld asked if this was vacated what most of Nr. Sprafka's group planned to do with that additional footage. rlr. Sprafka said that i•rould vaxy, and asked if it taas necessary to have an access for utility vehicles. rlr. lioardman said that in vacated alleys fences could be put up to the center line of the alley; however, if a utili�y company comes in and tears down the fence it is not their responsib9.lit,y. rir. Sprafka said that if the alley was turned back to the property owners his otv-n personal prei'erence would be to sod it or perhaps plant hedges or trees. rtr. Langenfeld asked if there were any plans•for gardcns and things of that nature� and Mr. Sprafka said he imew of no such interest. Mr. Langenf'eld said he would like to make it clear to the people in the audience that the Planning Commission is merel,y a recorunending body to �;he City Cauncil. Chairperson Harris added that it was the iirst step in the process. r2r. Peterson asked if the mini-bikes that were referred to were used primaxily by people in the neighborhood, and how frequent the use tras; and also it there were people f'rom other areas using the alley for this purpose and if so� why were they coming to this neignborhood to ride. rlr. Spra2'ka said that the people who rode throu�h on motorbikes� to the best oi his knotrledges were mostly from the neighborhood. He said he did nat know for a fact that people were coming from other parts of the cityi but ttiat comment had becn relayed to him. He stated that the irequency of use of the alley by the mini-bikes var3ed, and �t seemed t� run in strer�'.:s and be :�pnra:iic. � � A?r�. Shea asked if they haci snowmobiles usin� the alley in the winter, and r;r. Sprafka replied they did and that was a problem also. He stated that two ,years �. ago several snowmobiles wiped out ?_0� of his bushes. He added that the driving G back �nd forth of mini-bikes or snot,�nobiles in it.self taasn't all that significant, � � Yla.nnin�; Commission r9eeting -,Tuly ll�, 1t)"j6 Page 9 but it was :� matter nf mu].t=i�l.e Problem.�. P�Ir. Sprafka ^tated tha.t he th�ur,ht often the convenience for one famil,y is ttie inconvenience f'or another famil,y, � ;.� an�3 said hr fe].t the z•;i7.1 of th� rnajority t•;a� very important. Mr. Langenfeld asked how many children were involved in this block, and P•1r. Sprafka replied that it lti��.s a. very fertile n�;i�hb�rhood. He said there ��re a lot af children Vrithin the 23 residences, and also many on adjacent strEets. Ne added that at any F�iven time th�re �rould be nerhaps fifteen to t*��ent�r children playing up anc� dotrm th�: alley, fie said that the nuraber of cni.ldren from all the home.� v�onld be substantiall,y greater than that. Mrs. Gabel asked if in terms of mini-bikes and snot•rmobi�.es they ;aere talkinE; about noise pollution, and if tlie noise factor T-�as significante A�r. Sprafka replied tha�; was not a big concern to him; but his objection Uras tahen a mini- bike or snoitirmobile ran over tne hedge, plus the additional risk fa.ctor. He stated he felt it was an unnecessary risk ancl a child could be hurt. . Mr. Bergman said that since there were so many people in the audience and with the suggestion that there is a close vote, he thought it s:ro��ld be wise at this time to clarify for everyone some �f ths afiects of the onti�ns involved. He suggested there were three options: 1. Leave the a1ley designation as is. 2. Continue the obvious i.ntent of the ailey plan, which would be to improve the alley. 3. Vacate the alley designation. .� ^ Mr. Bergman asked Nre Boardman if he could clarify some of the elements in these three; such as in each case, TdYlO is responsible for the condition and the mai.ntenance; in the case oi vacation, to t�hom does the property go and does �his affect taxes; in case of iMprovement, is there an assessment, etc. Mr. Hoaxdman stated that if the alley was vacated for the entire length, half of the property of the alley would revert to each of tlle property ot�-ners along the alley and maintenance of the alley �frould also revert to the property owners. He said that they might Y�ave some slight increase in taxes due to the increase in propert,y acquired. R1r. Boardman said. that if the alley was kept the way it is, the City of Fridley would not main�ain it because the City does not maintain, per se, alleys that are unimproved. He said the *r�eeds would be cut occasionally, perhaps once a summer. I�ir. Boardman stated that if i;he alley remained and was petitioned to make that a perm�.nent alley with blacktopping, then,the city would do the snoc,�plo:,ring on that alley. He said in this case there *.aould be an assess- ment. Mr. Boardman said another option would be to make it a dead-end alley, in which case the City could not maintain it because a snowplow could not turn around in there. He said the main�tenance wauld revert to the property owners who wou].d benefit from that alley. He said that another possible way around this if there iL�as a lot of objectionable traffic iaould be to put a gate on each end of the alley and provide all of the property oti�rners with a key to the gate. Mr. Azad I�iesrobian, 29�5 Ely Street, stated that a 12' width had been referred to, and he did not believe the alley to be that Vaide. He said a truck could not get througli there. hir. Boardman said the City does have a 12' right-of'-way in �--� there, bu� there might be soma f'ences encroaching on the right-of-way. _ �-''t,�._.." Planning Commission Meeting - July 14, 1976 Page lU Mr. William Sicora, 201 Liberty 5trec�t iu.E., staLed that he was at the E��t end of the alley and that area was a turn-arc�und place f'c�r the ^nowmobiles and mini- � bikes comin� down the alle,y. He said he personall,y had a tree destrny�� on his property by one of these bikes turning around. fie added that grass doesn't �row very well there a.nd it is more or less being used for a race t,rack. Mr. �icora stated that ne felt an alley, so desi�;natt.d� �hould be used f'or :�ccess to garages, but all the entra.nces to �ara.�*es were from the front. He explai.ned that occasionally someone might rrant to p�rk a vehic]e or a boat, in Lr.eir t�ack ,yard, but that woul.d be a rare occasion. He stated there was no lo�ical reason for a permanent alle;� there becausc; of the set up oi' the �ara�es facin�; tt�t: s treet. Chairperson Harris told the audience tnat a_nyone who wished ta would be welcoMe to look at a plat of the area to i'amiliariae themselves with tne area. Atrs. Shea asked ii the alle,y across t,ne street daas vacated, and rtr. tiarr.is replied that according to the plat map there were no alleys in that area that were vacated. I�ir. Boardman said there �rere sor►e now; the one by P�Sacriine, Inc. an� one in lilock 3. P�1r. Sicora statea that ii' Lne alley were vacated he,k�ould maintain the e�t.ra i'ootage arid sod it, and he was sure tne neighbors would do the same. rie ad�eci that the dust made everything dirty, and he didn't think tne allc:y u��-s nece��zry. Rev. H�dney Sandmor., 23ti �'ly Street, said he had just purchased the empty lot; that is there� and his feelings were kind of in between. He asked if there r�as any kind of ordinance saying that if there was one garage door f acing an alley, that alley must remain open. T4r. �oardman said thai to the best of his H:noc�ledge there iaasn�t, but they would take that into consideration. Rev. Sandmon s1;ai,ed ,.-1 that he happened to have a garage door facing the alley. I�r. Langen:'eld a.skPd if it would be permissable�.to partially vacate the aliey, and Cnairperson i:arris said it �aould depend on where the lot was. He determined Rev. SancLmon's Propc�rty was lots 33 & 34, towards the center of the block. Chairperson Harris asked Hev. Sandmon if he was neither for or a.gainst the vacation, and he replied that looking at'both sides of it he could se� there taas a problem. He stated that most people in tne neighborhood nad small children, and they could get hit by a mini-bike or snotamobile. Hocaever, he cantinued, they could also get run over in the �treeL, and that is �,�here mr,st of them were. Rev. Sandmon stated iriat he had a detached garage and c�uid get black dirt through the alley ar through his front yard, but the peop�_e next door could not. He said they had a beautiful yard witn a lot of shrubs, and if the alley �as vacated ihey could not get black dirt through their yard, but would have to carry it by shovel from the front to tne back. Mr. Clarence Godletaski, 228 Ely Street N.E., stated that tne mini-bikes did come from across East Hiver Road and went between 3�� and �0 mph down the alley, and that should be against the law. He said if one child went out there, everyone was going to be sorrS�. Mr. Godlewski stated that thev had been taking care of the alley for the City� cutting the grass and keeping the weeds from comin�; in the yards. He continued that in the winter the snowmobiles �eren't too bad; but if everyone could get in through the f'ront, why have ��n allev in the first place. T�r. Duane Motzko, 290 El,y Street N.E., said that his main concern was each year � �the property taxes went up and the value of their property went up, but this � alle,y was a very unsightly thing. i�e stated he felt it wasn't necessary, and � N Piarutiing Commission Meeting - July 1�, 19`l6 Page 11 if he had to haul dirt in he w�ould brin� it through his front yard. He added ,..1 that his ,yard was fenced in and if the alle,y w�s vacated he would not m�ve the � fence back, but he would plant some trees a.nd sod it ine He said he �idn't f'eel they could ,just say they were goin� to vacate the a11ey and let it �� at that. He stated he l�oked out his window and sa.w these mini-bikes co�ing throu�h ana kickin�; up dust, and 'ne a].so wondered if a,youn�;ster �ot hurt on that property who was liable. � Mr. Peterson suggested i,hat if there were people in the audience ��rho ��ished to speak against the vacation, that they be heard also. Ch3irperson harris explained that t}iey ti•rould hear the pros and cons one at a time so there taciildn't be a verbal brawl. NIr. Peterson said he ti,rould like to respectfully submit it was the Chair's prerogative to keep the cror�d in order, but in fairness to the Commissioners ihey should near the argument,s a�;ainst the vacating so they had something to compare to. He stated he objected to hearirig all of one side at one time. Mr, Harris said he could guar�ntee they tirould hear both sides, but as'long as it was the Chairman's prerogative, they �rould take the �r�s first. Rev. Sandmon said he wanted to state his feelings were in bet�tieen, but if having the door in back of the garage would stop the vacating of the alletir, and if he would be the main cause of it� he could overlook that door. He explained he had an eighteen foot door in front and a nine foot door in back, so it really didn�t make any difference ta him. Chairperson Harris said they would now hear those people who wished to speak agains' the vacation. � Mre Marvin 'rIietala, 239 Liberty Street, N.E., stated he had about t�,renty signatures of people who dia not wa.nt the alley v�.�:a.ted, but some of t'r.�eM had changed their minds and signed the o�ther getition. He said the first concern would be the people in the middle af the block who did not have �access to their back yards through the front, and felt they needed the alle,y. He said that assuming they do have an access, they didn�t �rar_t b�.g trucks an their driveways delivering dirt, etc. He added that he ielt it ti•rould reduce the value of the properties. Air. Hietala stated tha� as far as the safety factor was concerned, he didn't think the street was any safer than the a11ey. He said some garbaoe trucks quit using the alley and they had garbage piled in the front street. He felt if the alley was open to u�;il.it,y vehicles it should also be open to the residents. He stated if it was chained it would becc�r�e a dumping area, and garbage trucks would not pick up; if gaies iaere put in, people would have to stop in the middle of the street with their boats and campers, and that ��rould be dangerous. Mr. Hietala stated that thei* felt if there ��as one person who needed the alley, tnat person should not be discriminated a�ainsto He erplained that people needed the alley f'or storage of boats or r.aripers, and the whale area was desi.gne,� U�:�tt� Un al lcy �n min:i �bec�.it:se of t:ne smal7. 1ot,�. ??e tolci the Commission that they just had a playgraund pe�titioned in, so tlie alley should not be a playground. He said that some people hacl been asked t� sign t.he petition for vacation even ii' they didn't care or not� and he fel.t if people didn't care the,y shouldn't be asked to sign it an,yway. He � stated there were other reasons� but this le'�iS part of them, r.-1 Chairperson Harris asked if he had a list of the opposers, and rqr. Hietala replied he did.. He said the list had been formed in the last da,y or two. �,� — Plnnnin� C�mmissi�n Meeti.ng - July ]I1, 197b Pa�e 12 Chairperson Narris brought to i•1r. Hietala's �ttention th�.li^t of. peopl� �ti�ho h3d ^i�ned the orif�in�l petition for v�'�cation. ;�;r. iiietala �aid th::t tY;e �art,ylla.> h;�d m��ved out, but rtr. Bo�rdm^n �xT�laine� f.hF;y n�t'�: sti]]. t}ie f�e o�.anerG. '�ir. }Iietala ��id that there were three names on that list vrho had chan�ed their min�s. i•1r. 13iet�la :�aid th�.t certain pevpl�� on thE� t�loci had b�en u�in� the al]e,y for tnirt,y Years, and t:iat should be �;o�d enouE;h. 1ie added that he, him�el£� used it �evcral time;� a ye�^_r. Ii� stat�ci that 'r�e h�.� tal'r.ed to Council^�an Fitzpatric�:, and he nad said that ii' one per.son oppo�es t��s, i�, shouldn't go througn. ?ie added that Councilma.n Fitzpatrick had said he kne.a o.F no case where an alley had been vaca.ted if thcre �is onposi.t.ion. i-lr. iiietala said he hadn't seen that manY sno�amobiles or mini-b1KP,S� and on most days ,you could pitch a tent in the alley and not see anyone for a few hours. Mr�. Shea asked what the width of the lots were, and P�ir. riarris replied t�e,y were 30' lots, and most� Ueople oi�•ned tt�to. He added that tnere uaas one lot, tahich anneared to be lot ?0, that t�ras alone. � Mr. Langenfeld said that in looking over the ne!�rly subr�itted list� he found three names that were also on the original petition for vacation--Hentges, Zukowski and Poehler. He asked if the people �aho purchased ihese lats s�rere aware of the unimproved alley at the time of purchase� and Mr. Hietala stated that was one of the reasons he bougnt the house-�so he could get in the back yard,ir.om the alley. a Judy Zukowski, 2lt9 Liberty Street P1.E., stated that she had signed both petitions. �.� She explained that the first time she didn'�t really care ii the alle,y vaas open y or closed as it wasn�t a problem far her. She stated they had lived in the neighborhood seven� going on eight ,years, and �J,*hen they moved in her children .were ages 3, 2 and 1. She said tnat no�r they z•rere 10� 9 and 7, so she had gone through the small toddler stage. She told the Commission she didn't really care that much, personally, i�rhether the alley was open or closed, but since that time she had talked to many of her neighbors who would choose to be able to put things in their back yards or build patios at some time in the future and be able to use it for other purposes. She stated that she found the traffic t�as hardl,y aiything at all compared to when she first moved in. Another tning, she said, was that a park had been petitioned in and if these children are so small that they can't p1a,Y safely in tne alley, then they have no business being there. rlrs. Zukowski stated that their lot was one of the wider ones (90'), but because of the way their garage was located they had only seven or ei�ht feet beside the garage and house, and it would be much easier to open up the back to haul in cement� etc. She stated that some of the people in favor of leaving the alley the waY it is have lived there almos�: thirt,y ,years, while most of the ones that were complaining are the ones that have moved in recently. She added that these people knew the alley iaas there and no one forced it on them. Mr. Bryan xohl, 2?0 Ely Street 1v.E., said he bought his house last fall and his �ara�e was built so close to the house he coulcin't park both of his cars there. He stated he planned on moving his garage back about eight feet, and the only wa,y to get concrete in would be to use the alley. He saict he had two trailers which he kept behind his garage, and if the alley was closed he would have -to � �, --� Planning Commi�sion Meetin� - July 1�, 1976 Pa�e 13 pull t,i�m through his f'ront yard. P�1r. Kohl �aia that ::ome people had tnade statc:� ments that it aras a safety hazara, but these sarae people are the ones whose � kids piayed in i,he street and aLno�t gc:t hi�. fie add�;d that his b% year old ', snn rides his bi_ke in thr a] lcy yornetim�s, but rio�tly �_ia� tt�e street. P4r. Kohl su�gested runnin� someth9.ng across tne centAr oi' the alley to stop throu�h traff'ic but sti 11 alloua }7eople who had �ccess trlrou�h thc� �acic to us� it. He stated that sorne pc�ople had alread,y put roci;s in the alle}T, and he i;ac� to drive on the Erass to avoid tearing u� the uriderside o+.'�his car. P�"r. Langenf'eld said tnat tnis seemed to be �uit.e a lar�Te block, �.nd askecl if' the alley was closed if it would nincier fire f'i�;ht�.ng. I�9r. Yohl said he di�n't i'eel it woul�, and added that P•lr. Brastad 'nad a � ire not long a�o and the i'ire trucks came down the street. T�1rs. luoreen Poehler, 229 Liberty Street tv.r";., said that af'ter signing fi.he pe'tition f'or vacation had changed her mind and would like to get her name off o{ �tha� list ana put on the second. She saia �ne reason stie changed her mind was because when they first talked arcut i �, t.he mai.n t7ir.g vra:; T�1-�:� f�etor ot' t�P children �;ettin¢ hurt, �nd nobadv �•��.nts to see somebod,y's rhild get hurt. However, she didn't think about the DnSSlb�lit�r �hat they •might need th�: al1.e;�. kfter��;ards, sne said, she got to thini�ing tnat they had recently had sc,rne black dirt hauled in to their garden, ana tne onl�,* �,�a�j in is through the alley. She said that was just one zaay ttiey V�ould use ii. I�Irs. Poehler said that as far as the children gettin�; hurt, no one v:ants to see that� but they did have a . playground one block aiaay and there were tne yards to piay in. She stated there were a few mini-bikes, ana her son had one, t�ut ne onl�• rode it occ�.sionallyo She continued tha�t �he traific :ras nuch less tnan it used to be a few years ,� ago; and she wanted to bra.ng out the point that if it was paved she thought i.t would bring in more traific as it taould be a nir.er place to drive througr�, and none of them �aanted that. °She said she just Tti�-�ted to mention that the alley �:as used, not a lot by anyone, but it k*ould be nice to have it open for T��hen tney did t�ant to use it. A1rs. 7_ukowski said she would �.lso like to formGlly remove her name from the original petition. Mr. Dona]ciHoff� 215 Liberty Street iJ.E., stated that he had a sma11 trailer that he used occasionaaly, so he would like to see the alley left ogen. }ie added that his garba�e man also used it, �.nd if it were closed the cans would have to be hauled to the street. �ie further added that as far as sa.f'ety ld?S concerned, he didn't feel there taere that many c!�ildren using it. Ch�irperson Harris asked if he found r�ini-bikes or snol,mobiles a problem, and P1r. Hoff replied iie did not. Mr. Peterson asked if he t;e�t his garbage cans in the garage, and Mr. Hoff replied he kept them in the back of his lot. r�r. F'rancis Poehler, 229 Liber�y Street N.E., stated that his son had a mini-bike and when spring came he used it a few times but has noi,r lost interest in it. He said that he had never seen anybod,y doing excessive speeds in the alley, and Lhought there was more of a problem in the streets. AIr. Poehler said that a couple of people had stated the}•tivould like to put sod and trees in that area, and the two people who said tnat live on eacki end of the alley. He added that he didn't use the alley that much, but taould like it open so ,� R,,.,� . � Plannin� Commission Meeting - July 14� 1976 Page 14 he could use it if he wanted to. I�fr. 'rIat•rard 4�alters, 26?_ Ely Street A1.�., stated hn had livec� there for alm�^t � thirty ,years. He said he had tUro bo,ys �•�ho had cars and he had told them not to come down the alle,y like it r��a.s a race �Lrack. He s�.id he felt the people V�ere ob;jecting because he used it. Ete stated he felt that if the utili i;;� comnanics could use the alley and other peonlc could use it, he wanted to use it� too. H� added that his son had a. mini-bike ana use: the al]ey. i•Ir. l•�alters said he •f�ould like to see the a11e,y sta�t the same so ma,ybe the t�xes Urould sta.y the same. Mrs. Shea asked if this request had come up before, and P�1r. VJalters said it came up several years ago b,y a few neighbors t�aho wanted to put up a fence at that time. He said he was asked about it and really objected, and he thought the matter was dropped and nothing further was done about it. Chairperson Harris asked one person from each side to summaxize the feelings of his or her group. Mr. Charles Sprafka stated that their intentions were good, and their main concern was for their children. He said he had a small child that he tried to watch closely, but sometimes the child would �aander into the alley. He stated they felt it was in the best interest oi the children to avoid a possible accid�nt and vacate the alley. Mrs. Marvin Hietala� 239 Liberty N.E., said she felt they had a legal right to this access. She stated that if even one person had this right, she didn't � think it should be taken away. t4r. Bergman asked if anyone had an existing garage that faced the alley, and the answer was no. He tnen asked if anyone would want the alle,y finished, along with the assessment for same, and one gentlemen said that if the alley cou'ldn't be vacated he Urould just as soon see it improved. Chairperson Harris explained this was just a hypothetical question at this time, and in order for that to happen there would have to be a hearing before the Ci.t�i l,ouncil and it L��ould be the�r decision whether to improve or not improve the alley. He further explained the Planning Commission could possibl�T recommend that type of action in t}leir motion, but that tiaould be a separate action. i•Zr. Bergman stated he had looked at the so-called second petition against the vacation of the alley, and his impression t�*as �hat those srere apparently valid, individual signatures: He asked AZr. Eoardman if he had f'arniliarit}� with the original petition favoring the vacation of the alley and if' those ti,rere valid signatures also. Mr. �3oardman said that the signatures could be found on page 83. He noted that t�ao of those people had formally requested their names dropped off, and a third (Marge Hentges) had signed both getitions and t�ras not in the audience. Chairperson Harris said her name should then be dropped from both petitions. MOTION b,y Bergman� seconded by Peterson9 that the Plannin� Comrni.ssion receive the petition in f'avor of the vacation of the alley. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye� the motion c:�rricd tir,:;nlmnp�l}-. � � °� �. Pl annin� Comrni ssion 1•2eeti rig - July 11t, 1976 Pa�e 1� A7UTIOrd b,y i;er�;rnrsn, �econded b,y Pet�rs�n, th�t t,he Plr�nnin� Comm:i.:�sion receive the �c�tition a{�ainst the va.c�.tion of' tne alley. ,"',- P�?r. L:3nf;•::nfeld �: ;;c-i wt�,3t the exact nurnber of namf�s UrE:re on tt7e ;econd petition. I�Ir. Bo�rdman �aid that movin�; 2�4rs. Poeh]c�r's narne to thi� one, there r�oulci be ?1 :;i.�;naturc�^, or ?_0 without I�Iar�r,e iIF:nt�Tes. :ie es�-,lained tnat on the fir�t pet:it.i.on ( i.n 1'avor o1' vac:ytion ), e,tcludin�; tr�e name� of ,uoreen Poehler and Judy ?uko:,�.;'r,i. (o-rho a.>kecl thrir namc�; be dror,�:ed) ari�x P�iar�;e HF:n�t�e� (who i�ad si�ned both bvt Vras not in the aud:i�nce) t!�er� :�rerA a.lso ?_0 names. �:t this �oint se�✓eral people in the audi ence asked to 1-,ave tneir naxnes removed from one list and added to another. I�ir. i�ergrn=�n said he would lil,e to clarify his motion. ife stated tha.t the of'ficial, docur��eri±ed reauest: taere part of' his motion� �•rith n� �ther chan�e.�. Cha:.rperson F-?arris said trose peop7.e t��ho ti•=ished to add their n�znes to these petitions should i;rite a note and gi ✓e it to the secretaries in the office tomorrow� and it would be submitted to the Council with the petition. UPON A VOICE VOTE, all voting ajr�9 the motion c�l°r:ed un�.nimously. MOTTOIV by Langenfeld, secc�nded by t3er�man, that the Planni.ng Commission recommend to the City Council denial of the reouest for vac�.tion, SAV �f76-01�, by Yaren I�lesrobi�, to vacate the unimproved alley in t�lock 11, Spring Brook Park Addition, lying bett•reen Liberty 5treet and Ely StreAt N.E. figr. T,=;,,genfeld said that before he vrent anv further he t�ished t� point �ut ^ that this is a difficult �:iiing to �o srith the situation they had 'nere, He said that without question, safety caas important to bear in mind, and the matter of majorit,y rules �aas also very inportant. He said he wished to deny this vacation for the following reasons: l. There appears to be uncertainty as to where the neighbors really wish to go, as there is approximately a tie situation. 2. The purchaser9 or renter, was a�ti*are of the unimproved alley and the problems that cou?d e:�ist. 3. Safety is a problem no matter s�hich i,*ay the vote �•rould g�. In ather words, those that were in the alley tJOUld go in the street, etc. !t. As to the ruling as far as one person wishing to keep this alley open, r7r. Langenfeld said �he would like to see that verified. 5. rir. Langenfeld said he i,�ould like to see the C�mmission recommend as a separate action the possibility of improving the�alley so there would be.no question as to its usage. rlr. Bergman said he would like to comment that he seconded the motion with tne knotaledge that there was si�able opposition to the request to vacate the alley. Mrs. Gabel said that with reference ta improving i;he alle,y, she didn't think �.-� it had been determined that the people want the alley to be impr.oved. � Planning Commission Meeting - July 1�, 1976 Page 16 Chairperson t�arri� stated that ii appeared that status quo ��ith the a].ley from the testimony th�y had receiver� was not a�3esirabic f'a.ctor, an� th�t ^omethin� � had to happen with either imnrnvement or tra.fiic contr�7.. He sa.id that it _ seemed to him that the Police Department w�.s reluctant to patrol an unir�nroved right-of-wa,y. I�Ir. Harris said that the area. was �lr��st buil.t to its maximur�, so the situation that has existed since 19�i�, in his opinion, could not continue any longer. He said that either the,y were �oin� to have an a] le,y or tney �,?re not, but if they were going to have an alley it should be improved. Mr. Langeni'eld said that he would like to indica.te that, tr�ose wr�o ma,y o��ject ta the outcome oi' this particular motian had the right to appeal to t;he Cit,;� Council. Chairperson Harris agreed and told the audience that their actions were not final, and the City Council would have i'inal action on thi�. Mrs. l�abel stated that there had been a statement made earlier that if there was one person against it, an alle,y wouldn't be vacated, and she kneur that wasn't tx�t�e t'rom personal experience. She sai� she wanted to state that so some of the people wouldn't become discouraged. UPOt� A ROLL CALL vOTE, Bergman, Langeni'e1d and. f�arr�.s voted aye; Peterson, Gabel and Shea voted nay. The vote being 3-3, it was a tie vote. MOTIOIV by Peterson, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission send this on to the City Council with no recommendaiion. upon a voice vot.e, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. � Cnairperson Harris said that this would go on �co the City Council i�or their � deliberation9 and the Public Hearing would be set for August 9, 19lb. __ Chairperson Harris declared a recess at 10:10 and reconvened �:he meeting a� 10 : 35 P •�'� • 3A. 'r'RIDLEY EivVIHUivr•!EivTAL ^UAL1'1'1' UOAyiISSIOiv S�OPE P•1r. tsoardman said that the reason ne brought tt�is up was that in reading through the minutes of the Enviro:imental ^ualit�T C�runi�:�-i �r. it sec�ed t•^ �`�:: t.!�at t��e�: • ��ere flou.�dering fo» tahat their respon�ibili �i�s are 2nd t,rhat �he�T should be looking at. He stated that the whole point of the reorganization vras to tnlce the load off the Corimissions as S'ar as t�ie day to day a�tivity wor'::, and �et more into developing standards, goals, or guidelines which would direct the City Staff to carry the main load of those procedures. He said it seemed to him that the Environment3l Comr►ission was i;rying to take on some of that load by itsel� laith their suggestion of revietiTing permits and reviec•ring home occupations. A7r. Boardrnan said if the Lnvironmental Coznnission wanted to get into this type of tring, it should be making recomriendations on procedures to follow so that the City Staff taould follow that order and be doing the actual inspections and permit processing. Chairperson iiarris said that as he read the minutes he �ot t•he �;ist that �::iiE�n they were talking about hoMe occupations they �aere lookin�; at the �rdinanc� and not the day to day sctivity work. t�Ir. Lan�;enfeld said they had looked at the � ��. � =� � Planning Commission Meeting - July 1�, 1976 Pa�e 17 ordinance and then the �li�cussion snoVaballed a. little, and th�s'� they talked �b�ut c�;rt3in pr.on]e viola�,in� horne occu�ntian bi.tt if' it didn't boiFrer a.n�boc�,y �' el :>e, 7_F�ave i t al�ne, etc. Mr. k3vardman said that on �S;',c' Lt of the E7�vironm�nt=�l Camrni.s�;i.on minut,�,, :i.t st�.ted "...the F.nvi.ronrnenta.7. Cornmission or �ome ai,her corJnission shc�u7.d revie�a these anplica_tlons infi.vidual7;l to determine t•r;�a.t �is minin�; in the Cit,y of Fridle,y". he ;ai.d that on page � it sai.d "He also f'e).t these occupations should be handled individuall,y and a permit proc�ss should �� throu�Jh somr� commission or public hearzn�; of some kind otner t,han having the 'Lonin�; Adrnin- istrator ha.ve sole responsibility". T�Ir. Boardman said the,y were tryin� to get rid of the load on the Cornmissions as io the permit process, and thi.s taas the whole purpose of the reor�anization� along with putting the Commissions more i.nto developin� policies so that the Czt,y Staff could iollo�r. He stated that he had noticF:d this in other Corrunissions also, t�rhere it seemed they wanted to get int,o the actual permit process. I�ir. Harris �ointed out that it was a Staff nerson c�rho had made the statement on page 5 that P7r. Baarciman had referred to. rir. Peterson pointed out that on page 6, Brother Sullivan had stated that the Commission should ma.l;e lrnown to tne Planning Commission that the Environmental Gommission intends to make recommendations or revisicns on Chapter ?_1?_-P�lining Sand and Gravel. Rir. Peterson said that was basicalZy ztiThat they were �sked to do. Pqr. Boardman said that in not only looking at these minutes, but minutes irom � before, also, there i•Tas a.n some ca,ses some feeiing that the,y i-*ere not sure of the direction th?y were supposed to go with this thing. P�ir. Boardman again stated that i;he whole purpose of trie reorganz�ation was to take the day to day activity laad off of' the Commissions and get them into policy development to �give Staff direction. R�r. Langenfeld said there was one thing Mr. Boardman may not have caught on the mining discussion' ?nd said they just r�erelv t�ranted to nave the permits sho�.�m to the Commission �v�hile there i•ras this state of limbo, and that t1ze5T �,ought to get an ordinance. I�Ir. Boardman said then the problem �Tould. be what they �aere going to do t,rith them. P�Ir. Langenfeld asked if he �JOUld have been better off inerely saying something to the effect that this ordinance isn�t very good and recommend a complete re-wording. rir. Boardman said that the Environmental Comrnission had been somewhat misdirected by Staff as far as what the UBC 70 was. He stated that it was strictly a building code and grading that goes along with building, He said that mining and excavating t�as completely different--the purpose there was to pull m�terials out of the ground for selling. Chairperson Harris said that while they k*ere discussing 212 and Chapter 70, he felt there was more to mining than just sand and gravel, and that was s,rhere they h�.d the hble in the ordinance. NIr. Boardman sug�ested calling it a Land Alteration Permit, and said there should be some type of a permit process ,r,,,1 so they couldn't cut dokm i:rees and other things related to land altera,tion without some type of a review or permit process. Planni.n�; Commi^sion Meeting - July 11�, 1976 Pa�;e 18 Nr. Langenfeld asked if' the,y :;hould then stay a?•�ny i'rom the wordin�; of the ordinance bui, rnerely recornmcnd that certain pc�ints be included. I�Ir. ►i�ardman >*� saici tney ju,�t U�antec3 ;,or�e direction. He :�ai.d Liiat if' l�nvir�,rvnc�ntal �.,�anted some controls over tne alter�.tion of' grot•Jth or dirt on property, �;ive ;taff direction on that and they ��ould t•�rit�: up a co�3e. ite a�3�3ed they :�ho�.ilc3 inr.lude fill and any type of land a.lteration. t-1r. Peterson asked if i�rhen he �-�:�s 1;a_lkin�; ab�ut ].anr3 �.lterati on T•ir. Y��ardr�an taas ta.11:int� �bout snrne hom� o.:n�r caho dcri�ie� to cut do;:^-i s� rounl.� �f t.rf:�s and put in some s�1. h?r. Boa.rdr��.n said he ;•r�3c; tal.i:in�l r?�inl;� about e:3.rth moving otr�er than excav,:tion for a home or struct,ure, possibl;,� even �;ra,iing for a parlcin� lat that i�� no� co.^.n_:.r.�•c�i '.;;: a...`_�c?'�,�e Chairp�r: en H�rris said he i•1as concerned a.bo�.zt the � 20 acre� o£ black dirt or peat up North of 79th Street� between Universit,y an�i the ra5lroad tra.cks, that is being indiscriminately dug out and left. :�irs. Gabel a�ked if ther� would be provision� f�r restorat�cn oi' tize 1_.:nd, and i�Ir. Boardman said that was the T,�hole idea. 'rIe said ;,}ie�J �:ere lookin� for something stronger tnan a$50 bond. He stated t�.at t.he::e �eople t-rere operatin� �rithout a permit, �nd there ��.*ere four separate operati.ans going on up there. He said he personal]y felt they should be snut do,ti�n until the,y cauld go through the permit process on the thing. He added tnat i°,r. Olson '��.d inspected and allowecl them to continue operation until such time as a rneeting is set up �vitih all d�,rt�digging operations in order to start this perriit process. I�Ir. Harri� said he felt they should be shut do:•m until they got some sort of an a.�reemen± that they i•rould grade off what is left there. �"� P�Ir. Langenfeld said that on page 6 of the Environmental ��uality Commission's minutes they would notice the com.�ent made by Brother Sul�livan� and pointed out the statement made by Lee Ann Sporre which indicated they were starting to go in the right direction. He then asked Air. Boardman if they �:*ere supposed to go into t�e actual wording of the ordinance or not. He said he felt that one ordinance *J�as really bad' and they could sit up all night goin� over that' so there was a problem. I�ir. Boaxdman said that he thought it looked like it t�ras time for the City Staff to sit do:�m and do up sor�ething tne,� felt t•rould be necessary on it, and then bring it back to the Environrnental Comr.iission. He said he thought at this time they should see if they shoulci sY:ut do�:•n those operations to make sure that more rape of �:he land does not occur. hir. Langenfeld said that as the Chairman of the Fridley �vironmental Quality Commission he would like to st.ate that the City of �'ridle,y should definitely try to use whatever means to put a halt to the destruction of current soil conditions and make sure it is restored to original order. Chairperson Haxris su�;gested issuing a permit to these operatians for a specific amount of time (3Q - 60 - 9� days), with the stipulation on the permit that at the time the nek� ordinance comes into effect the old perr�it is then expired and they must reappl,y under the new ordinanc�. He su�gested AIr, Boardman talk to I�r. Herrick on this to make sux•e that they taere on solid ground, and said he just knew �f'rom past experience itiat i.hey were �;oing to wind up in court with at least one of tho� operations. � Ylanning Commission Nleetin� - July ].Lt, 1976 Page 19 Tir. Lan�;enfeld askcci � i they could drup this i��pic and wait for an ordinar�ce to be draGm up, ana then review it. t�1r. l�oar•dma.n sa:id he thou�ht I�lr. Olson �`+ hac� delayed a meetin�; �ith the dirt difr�;c:r:, i,o t�rin�; i.his to the 'r:nvirr�nrnental Cvmmi�siori ta 1'ind out ��.hat direetion :�nc�uld t�e takcn on it. He saic3 ne r�oui r� talk to some people tomorrow to see if they cnuldn't shut doUm the onera.t�on immediatel,y and ;,tart JaorkinF; �n ?�n ordinanr,e i;o brin�; hefore the P:nvir�nmenta7. Commission <�.s soon as passible. 2�fr. B�a.rdrnan said th3t as far as his concern as to the extent a Comrni�sion �ets into the day to da,tiT �.ctivities, in a�.l c3�es he would li�e to see that removed frorn the responsibilities of the Corimissions an� ca.rried on b,-,� t�ie City Stai'f. He stated tnat the Cornrlissions had othr r things to do besi�es look at individual permit procedures. RECEIVE HUMAN RFSOURCES COT�iISSIOi� M?NUTES; JULY l, 197b Tirs. Shea ��;�.ted srie hadn't been at th� s�ieeting, but could give a litt7 e background on the one rnotion. Sne ex�,la.ined tnat in June Staff had as :e�i the Human Resources Cc�mmission if they were budgeted ��ith some monev, :�.nat their priorities would be. She stated this �frould be an alternative to tne way it was handled last year when individual groups requested funding; the Fir�e Arts Committee, for examole. She said that they sat down and tried to work out a budget witn the $10,000 figure that Uras given to them. P3ro Peterson asked if AZrs. Shea was a*�aare o.i' the fact that the Parks ana �� xecreation Commission put the Ser�ior Citizens in their budget, and sa.id that �aould be a duplication. r•1rs. Shea answered that she was aware oy that, but didn't �hink the other members oi' the Co,mmissi�n were. She said sne tnought one of the reasons it was included was because last year tney nad printed . the Senior Citizens Bulletin, ana �that had come to about $15U. Sne said perhaps the c;ommission thought i2' the Senior Citizens came to them again and askea i'ar 1�his type of service, tney s•rould be abie to provide it. r•9r. Peterson stated he tnought it was mostly a duplication of'uahat Parks and ttecreation put into their budget, and rirs. Shea said tnat was quite possible. I�Ir. tsoardman said that tnere might be sorne duplication under Youtn Center, also, He stated that altnougn Parxs and 'rtecreatian did not budget i'or a Teen :4ctyvity Center, the City Couricil at their last meetin� did put it under the auspices o�' Parks and ltecreation, and there will be f'unding i'or a Stai�f' person to ne at that center. Mr. Langeni'eld astced ii' tnis was an ari��ual budget,and I�rs. Shea repliea it was. Mr. Langenfeld said he was n�t trvin� i.c be argumentative, b;.i it ;;eeme� like the reserve far contingency was a bit excessive. Mrse Shea said she had a feeling they didn't know what to do with it. She stated that social services wasn't very well explained, but the City did get a reauest from Coon Hapids r'amily Services asking for considerabl,y more than 1,his. Mr. L3�rgman said he got the feeling that if the question iaere asked, "How much ,,, do ,you need,�and what for?", he had the impression the answer would come out differentl,y. A1rs. Shea replied she really didn't know. She explained the Human Resources Commission was walking in the dark, and there was nothing for them to get a handle on in their Commission. �� Planriing Commission �9eeting - July 1l�, 1�7t� F'3�;e :'0 P9r. Pei,erson said tie had f'ou�;ht i,he bu�'get. b�ittl.e f'or a ntimber oi' ,year•s, ancl asked if the City P�i��naF;er all of 3 suriden had �ir:r.ided to .spread m�ne,y all over the cit,y to be �pent. riF� :�aid 1,t�at, i�4r.:. �hea_':, .>t�.i:ement o1' a �tni'f' r�comraend<it,ior�'� �u^;�led 'niin a t�it. iir. .:;he� �aid �t,e t:.ou�; .t t7c� i.�le<i �.:a;; t::ai, 7��t yc:�r they had s:�.t up Lhere :it�d lictened to th�� 7.ittle r�que�ts, and t'tii^ ��:�s so th�:,y wouldn't have to �;o thr��u�n ihat.. 1`r. }s-�,j.rdrnar� ::�id tnat he th�u��'r�t t.nere had been clo:�e t� W1�,�� ret�ue,�tecj from dif'Perent. or�ani,,a.tion^, ^0 1,r,e }�uman iie,�ource� Cor�r�i:sion h.id bc:F:n =�r%:cr� i{' they had ��,Q��'`,. ��ti�t th�ir priorities �rou1�3 be f'or �penc�iri�-. He st,��t�d that was tiis interpretai,i�n, :�nci added tt.at the;� f,�err �:�,vinn i;n��;y� ha�� cn�•n �• t,ni s ar�ount o:" r.ion�y I a.°>t �,�ear an�i were t�aonderi�ng ii' there wa� sc�methin;; t!�c,y had mis:sed. Chairperson Harri:� stated tnat he 4aasn't s� sure that the way it iaas h�.ndled last year mi.�ht not be the best �ray. 1�!rs. G=:beJ_ askPd r�r�. Shr�a if the,y were given ;��0,000 as a budget, would tney have total control over it or would it go through the process of the Cit;✓ Council still havin�; the final say over wYrat was dane ��ith it. ;��'rs. Shea ans��rered tnat tnis z•aou.ld bo into the actual budget, and maybe i,hey :aould only alJ.ow :�2,OOQ, so they might ta.ke the �on ttao prioritiesa P�ir. Pet�rson said t,hat 3ccordir.� +o C�.tv F�T'OCP�U?"P� if ��uncil granted them a bud�et of y10,00��, t•�iey could tnen spend it for anytn.in€; the�,� wanted. He stated tne riizman Hesources CoruniGsion wouldn't even nave to follow their budget. i�frs. Shea interjected that. this trasn't their bud�Pt, but the city�s budget. Mr. Peterson said that once the City adopts the budget, for whatever dollars it is, then that �amount o£ rnoney could be sper_t b�� that particular Commission and not necessarily even for the items they budgeted f'or. Mrs... S�?.ea stated that this k�as not a Human Resources budget, but Uras out of the general fund and vaould not be listed as Human kesources. r2rs. Gabel asked Mr. Peterson when his Commissian laas given X number of dollars, did they control di sbtrsements. P�Irs. Peterson ans;•�ered yes an� na. He said if the Parks and Recreation Commission had been budgeted �5��,��Q, the control and the vray that money is spent is about 96;o City 1�Ianager and Director and 1�% Commission. He added that they could move the monies within that budget any t•ra,y they wanted to and t.hey didn't go back to Council or anvone else as long as it was approved in that amo�ant. A?r. Boardman said that was correct. A70TION by iiergman, the minutes of the a voice vote, all seconded by Shea, that the Planning C�mmission receive 'rluman c�esources Cor.�mi�sion meetin� of July l, 1976. Upon voting aye, tne motion carried unanimously. r"1 Mr. Langenfeld suggested that for clarification purposes they should just iorget the figure of $10,000 and use just percentages or a pro rata portion of X dollars. He said that way they could establish where priorities did Iie. AZr�. Boardman told Mr. Langenfeld that they did have to set a certain limit on the thing. He said he thou�ht the,y had spent this amount of monev last ,year, and the,y �rere taondering if they had spent it wisely or if there were more wortht•ahile organi:.ations that could be f'unded� and this �aas tahat they were a�king Human Kesources. He stated they �aere not budgeting money to Human ttesources or doing an,ything yeto rir. Peterson said that last ,year when rec�uests came through tne liuman Resources Commission to Planning to Cit}� Council, the,y were earmarked for special purposes and tnat i�as the only way they could be spent. If i.t was in general budgeting, he continued; the City Tianager would have the authorit,y to spend it anyway he wanted to within ttiat budget and not necessarily on those items. �"', � --� Planning Commiss.ion Meeting - July 14, 1976 Page 21 ,,,,;,� P�4r., Ber�;rnan a�ked if triey were rea7ly tr,yin�� to 1'ind out from i�uma.n Rcsources what LhF,y su��;e:�t be included iri tiu bud�;c:t f'or ti�eir a.ctivitie::. i��r. :i,��r::r,�� saic3 hc> was not �urr, V�hat, tlie intcni; of' tiic Cit;✓ ::��nr.�;er': n; fi�,r. rr:�s' bv`., he thought they were ��ronderin�; if tti�e money snent ].-,�st ,year wa.s !a3.sely °r�ent r�r :�houl�3 inerc• be other thin,;� t?�:a+. ^h��til�i t�e fundF�d. ?�`r. iIarris S?7d `,n-+t ��n��:- scrnebod;� cc�lae in an�3 r�adc << re�,lest �:.rnl ��'.�;ed, [lnr,r t,.ere ihe;� �un,�o^r,d to };r.o�, ��ha.t t:�e;� are. Ilir. �3o-+rr',m;�^, ^aid he thou�;ht t.hi � tn ; n,� r^a.;� b� a. bi t pr�rvTtv re beca,u::� when �oai:- s3?;d ob,jc�etives were esta:oli;,hed� those ob;jectives vrou�l_d hc: l�id out and prioritl�:� °;rr,�.',l.rj bn F�^t.��t,7:::hF��':. , t�i7'. �lC�t.��I'SOn . ..'�t.,.'� h�, � :L: ..� t;�,i: .:i; '., t!'.o }:'..':;'�_ .:a �.?�t t". ,.^� tilf:^..,.�^�` t�." ... ,.:�- i+ i�rc��la �;o into t?�:;, �neral• bli��t ��d tney, ,.:o�.zl.dn'i: l�o�.• :rherr� it rPnt. P�1r, :iarris sa3_d he tho��!�t t.hat :�:•a.s the �.r�.y it should be done--t•he ��a�r ii �•�as last; year. tirs. Gabel stated that she thought the Ht;man � e�ourceS !:U�L�f15SlOri did an excellent job, and she woulc3 like to ��e them have a handle on it. i�irs. Shea said t�at in regarc� to Social Scrvices' shP tnou�ht t�? ma�r. reeson thi:a carm� about .�a� hec�.l�..^� Co�:� R-.p�.�.° a�l-e�i fr�r :>'�n,�n0 fror� the Cit;r of Fr�dle,y b�cause r ridle:r pe ,•�le do use th? r'amil�t S�r�ai ce. ;�;r. '�oardm �� _..; d it Trt2.s also hecasse Coon Rapids 4•;as running into �'i:�ca1 rlonet<.try -�rob:�_er��. Chairperson Harris said if the F�il,y� Service ��:as i.�ein�; u�ed b,y rnore 'than one corununitv in the county, t.hen it should be a county function. T�r. La.n��nfeld stated hF �'elt tney shoulc? vo�e not to concur t•:it!� t:�e r�c�tion by �tr;, Human Resources Co�.mission, a�d tnen �ub*nit a Motion tt�at Council con��.d�r � at least ��,000 (this wo,�1d be excluding duplica�ioris af the Youth Center ar:d Senior Ca_tizens ) of public money frori general c�ntingenc�� funcis to be a1.� ocated to t;he F�urnan R�so�;rces Commission for 'che culti�rat.ion of hurnan resources development in the City. :�irs. Shea corn.�ented tnat she wouldn't lixe to see that money allocated to the Human Resources Coru�ission. i�1r. Peterson said he would Iike to offer as a possible motion that the Plannir.� Commission concur ldith the Human i�esources Co*timission in the need for cuitivation of h�an resources, and that th� further recoru~�end that ti:e sc?endin� of t.r?is come through on a recommendation froM Hur.►an nesources to Pl��nnin�; to Co��ncil to Y�e spent ou� of the contingency fund. He stated that the requests should �e considerEd �n an application basis. I�;rs. Gabel said she �ronderPd if they shoulcin't �ive Pirs. Snea the opport,inity � to take tnis baek to her Commission, but I�Irs. Shea said she didn't think inat u�as possible as the Council would be looking at the budget starting Au�ust 2. t-1rs. Gabel asked A;r. Boardman if this was somehow being worked into the budge� since it ��as a St,aff inember who made the recommendation, and he replied he rather doubted 9.t. Chairperson Harris said he thou�ht what the,y were tr,ying to do is earmark, sameha:J, $10,00.� for all of the prc?jects tha� come through here. He said that then �ahen a project wen:- throu�;h the Plannin� Commission and got to Council and they a�provAd it, tliey would h��,ve �10,000 in this fund and could iund it from tnere. Airs. Gzbel s�id �hey should find a v:ay to see ihat some m�n�y ,.� does get spent on thin�;s like r'ine Arts, rlr. L�.ngenfeld commented that this � was an invitation to Pandora�s Box. Planning Commission Meeting - Ju:Ly l�, 1976 Pa�;e ?_ 2 Chairper�on Harri ^ sai� the,y thin�; th�t scare�z h irn vJas i,h� t i L would be 1_earned that the Ci.tv had :�;10,0�0 to spend on t,hi s type of thin�, re�t�ests would come throu�h and be funded and the :y10,OC)0 would be disbursed. 'ihF:n� he sai�3, i. f' �"'1 one more re�uest ca►ne 1,hou�;h, Council �rould sa;� i,`�e,y cUUldn't f,in�? it a� �`ie $10,000 had been snent, and t'r:at mi�ht be ,just trl� one �,hat sn�uld be �;rant�d. Mr. Boardma� sai.d that S�JSS wh,y th�;� l-rar�ted tc, :,f�� ti•rhat tne prioritics t��rc�. NIr. Harris said tne probler� with ttiis was t1�at it was �oing to �•rind up like all the coru�unities doti�rn at tne nUi) �ffice tr,yirif*, to �*,�t nr_t px�ject� appr��ved. Iie said they t�rould probabl,y have tc•:ent.y rerniest� for �L�,GO� af�iece. MOT10td by I,an�;enfeld, sec.onded b,y Peterson, that, tne Plannin� Commi.ssion recommend to Council that the,y do no� concur wi�h tne reco;�umend�.Lion Y;y tne Human ttesources Commission �:nat Council consider th��t at l e�.si w10,000 Qf public rnone.y be allocated to the broad area of cultiva,tion of' human rPSOUrces development in tYie City of Fridley, and aiso does not concur �ritY� the bud�et. disbursEment of the :�10,000 as recor�.mended by the Human Resources Commis�ion. Upon a voice vote, Harris, Bergrnan, Langenfeld, Peterson aiid Uaoel votin€; aye, Shea abstaining� the motioti carried. MO'1'IOP� by ?eterson, seconded by tsergrnan, t'rlat the Planning C;om�i�si�n rigrc:e with the Hum2n Resources Commission in cultivation oi' 'r.ur.lar► resources develop� ment within the City oi' rridle,y, re�,lizing that �ome o�' these should be supported by City monies, and recommend to the City Council tha.t each request snould come thraugh an appeals process through the xuman ��soirrces Corvmission to Planning Commission to City Council. l�qr. Langenfe7_d asked if I�ir. Pe�erson felt he should indicate soine kind of source, such as contingeric,y fund. rir. Peterson said he didn't think t'r,at �aas necessar,y �� as it would be handled out of' tne contingency 1'uncl aiiywav. i-ie added that ne � didn't like ta set a dollar 1imi.t because in 197'T it mi�nt be More or less than last year. UPQ1v A VOIG�; VO'1'�, all voting aye� the motion carried unanirtously. !�. CO�TTINuEllt HECOi�L^�raDA'1'IOivS Uiu HUNIAN DFV�LOPi��1;ivT GOi�LS Ar,D U!�Jr;C'1'1V�S P7r. tsoa�•dman said wnat he was looking f'or at Lnis time was development c�� C�oa1. Statement Dl'J0, and trying to work tna�. out. He said tnat this �:as wi�at iaas broug:�t bei'ore the Planning Cemmission as t'ar!�cs an�i `•.°creation �oals, �r�� i1t'J' had been re-�.aorked and out into those five program objectives. He told the Commission that what he vras looking for from them now was direction as to whether this is the proper way to go on it. Mr. Peterson said he wished to discuss somet!�inh that wasn't necessarily germaxie to D�00, but ne t.hought it was somethin� the Conu�ission should be aware oi. He stated that a couple, of months a�o at a Council_ meeting Parks a.nd Hecreation was critici�ed by Councilpet'sonTKukowsr:i, and aP��ersonysaidlltYe about it for �!ahile they decided she probably tias rif,ht. A.r. Parks and Recreation Corunission then started z pro�ect committee to on1Y l�ok at recreatinn within the City of 1�'ridley. He tolc� the Comr�issioners that if they had an,y thoughts on that it would be iaell to get in touch with that ^ committee. He added that maybe their Commissions caould want to discuss it , now that the,y do have this project committee activated. � �-� &` Planni.n� Commission 1�IePtin� - Ju]y J.l�, 7.y7� Pal��= �3 T1r. Iier�*rnan as�ed if it ta�:: the int,ent of' ll1.00, w.ri�r� encornpas:,ed tnrou�?h D7_5l�, �� to r�e f'r�r'r, ��nd itecr•c;ation's c�escriptivc pror;raJa cir,,;c�tivcr, pro:;r�m p1�.n, f,oal :�t:23�,L';QE;2'lt� 2I'lfj ;O r�t1• i;I'• ��1'31"Cj^?3i1 ::aicj t}]1''i, �•':�:' C�nrr�ct,. TA7'. �CtC�:^.'inll ca1Cj his uncierst:3ndin�; T�� th�t was true, but with tne feelin� that at an,y time that the P;.rl-s �nd R��crcat,ion Co:�mis^ion throu�;h the �:rc�cess of brint;in� it, t�� ,hi� b�d,y ��:i�3 �o i.hf, Citv C�uncil coulc� exn.:nd t7i:> �.� . thr� nFed arise,�. i:r. i',o�.rd�an �:ii.c] thi_s l•rould bc; �. v��ry f1 ��x� �1� prnRr�m bec�ure pro�ra^� oh,}�'�ti.v�:� c�u7 rl be a�lded, 3nd everi �oal sta.tements, � if nec�s;-ary. 1��Ir. Bergroan �,sked I;r. Bo�3rdrnan if he rea.11y fe�t t;�rit from a z�iF�i�-*ht anal :��;i� that if he took the items as described, that t;"�� er.::mcr�tion of iter�� rc,1.-t,i.ve to recreation a.nd enum�ration of items rel.a.t� v� to t�ark desi�;n and �:numt�ra.ti on of iterns relative to elderly activitie�, etc., c�_rrier� in terms af wPighti.ne�s in t:�e.documentation some rel��tivity to the wei?htine^s in actual pr�.cticce i:e s�.id that b�r actlial. pracr.ice he t,ras including staffing, funding, expenditures � etc. In other words, he said, he could look at t•That was �nTri �ten ari:i read a balance of a magnitude of a�tivities. He sai.d �is �uestion was, does that s;3me ral�-�ce actuall�� exist in rAalitv, or ^ho�al.c�n't he be tr,yi_ng to relate balance. . t�1r. Boardman said he thought P4r. liergman taas laoKin� at 110, 12Q, 13Q and 150 . all r?lating to parks, and 1Lt0 relating to recreatione He said he tr.ou�ht this was t�rhat I�ire i3�rgMan taas looking at as far as weightiness, but it didn't necessarily work that taa,y. He stated that recreation Uaas onn scope r�ait :in the parrs .area, and park develop:nent ,�*as broken doi�m into several tnir�gs: p�rk systeM; inclividual park land as �'ar as developM�ntp aesthetic cualities, �tc.; '� people or public participation with park's prograrisa special ma.na.gement of those par!�cs for recreation. He added that recreation t��as another progr �^�. He said :.hat this was not set up so there was a balance of things b,y countinE, the nu.mber of goals. IIr. Boardr�an �:xpla�ned that all of the balance in recreation � might be handled in one goal or one program objectiv�, i�rherPas four objectives might be needed to handle what i,ras :aanted in a garks system. Mr. Feterson said that to ans-�:er the question �nother way, that t�rhile it looved top-heaw aG £ar as farilities versus program, tne '77 bizd?et is �-1 pr��rar: versus facilities in terms of t��hat theY had rec�uesteci. Atr. �iergman then read Dll�O, and asked if tnat �has balanced if i+ vaas looked at in terms of a�e group. hlr. Peterson said �;hat was a difficult quesl;ion to answer, but :�n terms of priorities the maximum ariount �Tould be spent on young �eone, the second most important segment would 'oe the sznior citizens, and the f,hird taould be those represented as this body a:� the,y had the money and facilities to go elset��here and t�ere also c,rorking and had less time to use the facilities. Mr. Langenfeld sa.id that he had his notes on this item from when it caas discussed previously, and comriented that under D100 they had apparently decided t.o ro� mote adequate pa.rx facilities, not �rovide. He also had noted that under D131�he tiaa marked the nandicapped� and asked if this would be speciiied as Parks and hecreation or just Human Development. Ttr. Boardmzn said tnis t�roulci just be Human Deec�lopment, and wouldn't be specified a� Parks and tt�=creation. He stated that t.he �nl,y rc<�son ne !�aci put. .in D131 and n132 t:�as to give some ex��ples� �ind altti�ugh the �iandicapped mi�;ht go in someplaee, he iaas not sure if it i�oula go unaer D130 or not. Tir. Ber�;man said he thought the general outline looked we11 or�anized� and asked Mr. Boardnian what tie was e�pectin�; from the Cammission, A1r. }3oardman regli ed :� Ylanning Cnmmi��ion Meetin�; - July ].!�} J_976 }'�.��;e ?l.► . h� w�.5 loorin� i'or approval. Mr. L�Zn�;erif'eld said he noul� l:i�:e to reco��u��f:nd t'riai, thc Fl<ann :n�; ►.;o.nrni :,:; i cin approve the �roal �.t�Lcr.�unt:; a:� rec;:rtir.cndr:�'y cn�; ct�te:�en;. :�L r� t;i^c�, ,;�, +,'t:�;� V�ould be mal�inP sor;� hP�di�ra,y. t�4r. li�r�m��n :-��d h�: ��*r�:�:�, Yni', ��roti7d lik�� ',� I:l%_rE'. C?:1r'. :�U_E'r+F?:'t,� 'I�1. �� . ^f�, .}�-r{ t'1'i+. r,p �•n.? I , �.^t.�."'„�1L r��}�,� l-, r.� ,3�� .7 �+,.i} .r 3t :�G^1C t.�T�?E'. 1?": t�E'. i�"t, ��(, }�;�!j ;i?.��n ±�l^, .,')^1:1�Y:t, f,L1Fi.1. :?X'nti.''rj-jpi� .��+�� f<�.cilitic�� .•�ou7d nc�t c�n^ur^ hi.;; �lealt,:�: ^n�i .:�e„ �,c,i:��. :,,> . �;i.d �t r:i�•ht, nromote it,� but it w�ul�in�t make 'riirn ?�ea�.tny� �nci �ii��;c��ec� tiiat e;i^�zr� l�e chan} �� to nr�,r�,�te. '•'r. Bo:�rd.rla.n c��' t.ti:�t �:^::�1�3 !�� 'in�:. P�irs. �hea brought up P-ir. Lar,�en�e�d' � �u�� ;t-;_�n abnut �:utt ing '�n � omc�,rn�•re �omethin� a.b�ut th� ha.n�3ic�nped, an�] the ^or��i ;.�ioncrs a�;rerc� they �,rant.ed to SPP th�t. t•9r. :�nasdman said the,y ti•�o�a]�3 �et into that. MOTTQN b,y Lan�enfeld, seconded by Yeterson, tnat the Planning Comrzission take these �n a goal sc�.tement basis.onl�r. Unon a voice v�te� a.11 v�tin� �.ye, the motion carried unanimously. A70'1'IOi�a by Eergm2n� seconded by U�hel, that tn� P�anni.ri{; �:�r,Lrussion �.CCP.^t goal statement D100 as sta.ted. Upon a vo� ce v��e, ail ��o;,in�; <�;Y�c, tne rao.t�an carried un2.nimousl,y. 1'OU`I'H CF?ivTFR DISCU.�,SIUId r1r., doardman informed the Corumission tnat the �ity t;ouncil had taken action on the Youth Center, and had given the Co; u�:issions tnat ��ou1d be invol�,red thirty days to come up saith a representative or: the Charter. P•Irs. Gabel said she would like to mention t'�at there :aas a member on the Appeals Commission ��ho� taould l.ike to serve, if t.hey �.�rere looking for ^�eni�ers. She added that she understood this individual helped to or�-anize a youth center in ano�her state some ye�.rs back, and he i•�c�uld li�ce to assist•. Chairperson Harris as�ed if the Commission i•�3nted a Member of this Cammission to serve on the Board, or if they ti-ranted to appoint so:neonP Plse besides a member. [�ir. B�ardman said that first of all, tne neople apno�nt•ed at this tirne ��rould be appointed to a temporary Board oi' Directors to serve not more than thirty days. He stated tnat during that time theY would �rite the cnarter, establish interim rules f'or the youth center and facilitate the election for regular members to the permanent board. He stated that the appointed ex-officio Members would also serve on the permanent board, and that the six regular members of the temporary Uoard wc�uld have also the ex�of£icio me;nhers of the Fridle,y Cit}� Council, the Fridle,V Police Department, and the Parks and Recreation Commission. He added that when the charter was t,rritten, those officio members �aould conti.m�e on the permanent bo3rd. /^�, �� Ir. Ber�;m�n stated that he recollected that the proposal was that these members be teen��*ers. Ptr. Bo�rdman disa�;reed, and s3id thc,y had tiaanted su�?ervision from the different Commissions in the writing of their ch�rter. �� Chairperson Eiarris requested an answer to the question he had posed; and again asked if' this Com►nission wished to appoint a member f'rom the Commission as their appointee� or iY they wished to go outside the Commission. � � Planning Commission Meeting - July 14, 1976 Page 25 Mr. Langenfeld answered that in his personal opinion, they should appoint someone from the outside and have that individua,l inform them of what was going on �� periodically. Mrs. Gabel said she thou�ht the,y had a��rked on thi� so much they had a lot of preconceived ideas� and thought if they appointed somebody 1'rom the outside that didn�t have.any set ideas as to how this should be done they could probably work with the youth a lot better. ' Mr. Bergman stated he had an alternate thought, and stated that he was thinking that since they all nad spent some time on this and had s�me knowled�e of it, it would make some sense that this knowled�;e be <�pplied to this function rather than pulling in a stranger who had no background in this at all. Chairperson Harris saia that if the Commission deciaed to appoint one of its members to the temporary board, he fe�t it only fair that ne volunteer as he was the only one who had only two Wednesday nights to attend per month. MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Gabel, that Mr. Harris be the Planning Commission's appointee to the Youth Center°s temporary board of directors. Upon a eoice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously, Mr. �oardman said that hopefully the Chairmen no�� could serve notice to their Commissions bn this as to how they want to handle appointing members or ex-officio members at a Commission level. Mr. �ergman stated that he was going to suggest or request �o Communit,y Devzlop- ment that they get a volunteer to serve on this. He said tnat all of these representatives were s].ated to be i'rom some function, and asked if' it T.aould be �'`�, possible to filter a volunteez's name through Mr. Boarcim�n. NIr. Bergman said that if they had a volunteer, he could serve as a representative f'or any one of these functions. Mr. Bdardman saia it looked to him that the youth were looking for a member from each oi' the Commissions because ihose persons on that Comrii�sion were �.ware oi' that Commission � s i'unction. Mr. Harri�s said the reading he got f.'rom the kids was that they wanted a member .t'rom the City Council, the Planning Corimission, etc. Mrs. Shea said she was assuming that they would allow someone to sit in and make suggestions, but they wouldn�t have a vote. . AZr. t�oardrnan said it looked lixe the youth had selected the Planning Commission, the Parks and Recreation Commission and the Human ttesources Commissic�n as Commissions that would help get the charter goir.g. ADJOUttNMEN'P MOTIUN by Langenfeld, seconded by Shea, that the meeting be adjourned. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Planning Commission meeting of July lla, 19?6 adjourned at 12:21 P.Pq. by unanimous vote. /� Hespectfully submitted, n � She ri 0'Donnell', Hecording Secretary