PL 08/18/1976 - 30450CT'rY OF FkTULEY
� PI,ANNING COMNIISSION ME�TING AUGUST 18, 1976 y
PAGE 1
CALL TO ORDERo
Chairperson Harris calied the meeti.ng ta order at 7s30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Presents Harris, Bergtnan, Lang�r�fel�9 Petersor�9 Gabel (attending for
Schnab�l), Shea .
Mefibers Absents None
Others Presents Jerrold Boarclman, City P1axuler
APF'I',.��TE PT,APINING COMl�iISSTGN I�TNUTF.�Ss �tUGUST 1�� 197b
Mr� Eerg:nan stated �hat on page 16, midway through the bottom paragra�h, he
z.oi• � d like the �aord "inplemen'ced'� changed to �included",
� hfre L,an�enfeld said that on page be second paragrapns he asked if tric ���°age
" hould be compaiible ti�.th �che rest c�f the house and the neigr�borhoada fie �.l.l.s�
noted c+n �a�e 19, secorid paragraph, he �auld lilce 17pret�y much set�' be ch�nged
t� "establis?-.�d".
Chair�erson 'rIarris sta�ed that on page l, third pa�°agraph, he belie�ted it �ras
��Ir.` Boardrr:�n �aho made the st�aiement that r�oney had been appropri�tedo
�?�°s. Gabel said th�ic regardin� page l39 she had found out that the �0� l��s
w�re not �axed as buildable sites. Shs �.lso noted tl7at. on page 1 P�Irso Schriabel
had raised a question concerning the socce� field at Locke Parkq 2nd was �aonderin.�
eif that could now be ansti•rered. Mr. Peterson stated tc�at it wouldn�t be faund
as a specific item because it �ould be charge�. under general maintena.nceo
A�1rs. Gabel s�:ated she had a ques Lion concerning �the first parag•raph an page 'T
regar�.ing the surveys. Sh� said she had been at the Couiicil meeting arid Mr.
Sinig�glio didnft ha�e a survey, but Council told him i;hat bccause i�e was far
enough from the lot liries t.b.r�t he did.n ° t have �o have a survey. She asked if
this was a general procedure, NIro Beat�dman said it was a general policy. He
e� plai.ried that after the Plar,.ning Commission mect ;r:g P�ro Siniga.glio checked
to see thz price of a survs}° and. iaund it to be �ousic3 �200� He further explained
that hire Siniga�.lio ther. moved the second accESSery bazlding closer to t•h� house
so it was about 150 �'rcm the l�� line, and the Cit�r Cnuncil then said he did not.
have to haee a survey. �
.� %Tro H�.rris asked ho�r 2ie ���u7.d know it �as 15° frc�m the lot Iine t�itiiout a survey,
�_ and �rP Ba�rdm�.a: rEptied they had general �lat maps that showed general distar,ces
from street cur.ves9 ri�ht ef ways, etce He s�.yd it cauld basically be deternined
h� �i�4: ,�.s�uria��; off �hose distanc�s �ahere the l�t line was. Chairperson iiarri�
Planning Commission Meeting -���ust 1a, 1976
Page 2
commented that that was a very dangerous gaaumne to playo
�
Nlr. Boardman said that with a survey a person was allo�red to build vrithin 3°
of �he property line, and without a survey he could build within �.2 feet of
the property line raith a disclaimer from the next door property oianer. Chair-
person Harris asked how he �rould knoVr where i�h� property line was. He said.that
in this paxticular case the house lras built about 20 years ago, and the o�mer
couldn't find �the stakes. He asked �rhere P�o Sinigaglio would be building Lt�'
from, and Mr. Boardman ansr,,rered from whe�e the estimated property,line waso
Mr. Bergman commented that Mr. Sinigaglio had allowed about a�� foot safety
factor, ax�d he hoped the estim�ted property 1i�ie wasn't 8' offe
Mr. Boardman stated that the App�als Comr�ission had suggested that �s0 for
a request for variance was excessirre and t�ran�ed it dropped to �25, and now
this Commission was requesting � person to spend $200 on a property survey.
With the policy they had been �ol�_owwing� Mr. Eoardman continued, if a petitioner
wanted to spend the money that was iine, it �uras fbr his protection, but it
wasn't requiredo .
Mr. Bergman asked if the City had a dimensio�zal record of this lot, and Mr.
Boardman answered that they had a p?at wha_ch showed dimensions from the streeic
right of ��ayo Chairperson Harris stated that i� was not necessary that the
street run doum tlze center of t:�e right of tray, and that was tirhere the problems
arose. Mro Boardman said -chat t'�ey were relatively close to the center, giving
or taking a little. Chairperson Harris said that a few years back he had an
opportunity to go to Arlington� Virginia ta do some work and ialk to a few
peoplev He said that George �'ashing�on was thE firsL president of the countr.y �*
arad was also a surveyor9 and they have a terrible mess out there. I�r. Harris
explained that they haee people wnose ho�uses were built right on top of lot
lines; the lot line runs right through 'cheir livi.ng roome He s�ated that
George Trdashington might have been a good Fresident9 but he was a lousy surveyor,
He stated he got very nervous about playing fast and loose with lot lines,
Mra Boardman said that was one of. the reasons they got a disclai.mer from the
neighbora
Nirse Gabel s�ated that when shE was first on the Board of Appeals, everybody
requesting a variance had a survey, and if thsy didn't have one their request
was -tableda She said that lately people h�ve been coming in writh little ,
dra��rings, and she was wonderin; ho�a that came about because it used to be
ve�y cut and driede 1�3ro Boardman said th�t surveys �rere required on all variances,
and Mrs. Gabel said that �aasn'1: necessarily true and could think of one that
had gone through the Appeals Gommission just recently �*ithout a survey.
Mr. Bergman said he reaalled back t,rhen he was Chairperson of Plats and Subs9
and a survey was a requirement before dealing dimensi�nally on anything having
to do �aith a lot. He s'tated he agreed with Mrs. Gabel that there has been a
lot of slacking off, and added that he was a li�.t.le surp�ised at $200 to survey
a lot.
Mro Langenfeld s�;ated he felt a survey was very important� o�herwise he could
foresee a Plsnning Cor,unission meeting full of p�ople with problems concerning
lot lines and it would be impossible to iron them all out. He added the City �.;
should be consisten� in its palicy.
,,.�-��� -�
Planning Commission Me�ta.ri� � Au�ust 18, �9"l6
Page 3
Air. Boardman said tha� basically i� a person �aas as}cing for a variance to a
,r, lot line or a vaxiance to anythin� 'that .required an exact dimensional statement
_' for a Public Hearing, thEn a survey was required. 2�1rs. Gabel noted that a
couple of t�reeks ago the Board of_Appeals had a requesi for nariance for a gara.ge
and there was a problem oi hihere the lot line Uras and the petitioner did not
have a surveye Mre Boaxdnian commented that he thought that �das unusual.
�1ro La.ngenfeld asked if a survey would be required if a resident of th� Ci�y
wanted �o put a fence around his yarda MT�i 3aardman st�.ted that the City did
not get involved in that and did not iss�e fence perrnitso He added that ihey
suggest that prope�ty o�rner get a survey, but don't demand it. rir. Board.;�an
said when a property oti,mer pu-�s that fence in on the praperty line, he is doing
it at his own risk; the City can't get involved every �time that somebody i�anted
to put a fence on the pr�perty line, and there has to be a little responsib�lity
on the part of the proper.-ty os,mer9 i.00m - ,
Mf�e .Bergman asked if in any case �ahere a building permi�t i�ras required9 if a
certificate of survey was required prior to granting the building permit. Mr.
Boardman replied it was, and said they also required a verification survey
when the siruct�are ti•�as done. I�r. Bergman then asked if a building permit
wasn't required for this second accessory buil�ing. Niro Harris said absolute�y,
and Mr. Boardman said he couldn't answer that as he didn�t l�-ao�,* what Darrel Cl�rk
required. Mr. Bergman siated he was told 1;ha� for improvements, renovations,
construction, etc.; a building permit was required t�rhen anything was in excess
of $ 150 cost. He stated that �Lhe second accessory buz�ding w<:uld eertainly
qual'i`,�, and asked if it wouldn°t have to have a bui2ding permit and there�ore
�� certificate oF snrveym A°�r. Boar°drian said he dicjn't kno�r t,�hether a. certi�ica;.�
, of suavey taas required, P�lr. Peterson coru�ientpd that he tliuu�!��t a second accessory
�aaildir�b uncler a certa.in siz� did not need a buil�ing permite P1lrr. Harris sa�d
it ca�ulc� need a building p�rmitg but did n.ot r�e�.=.d a specia? use �err:�it i� i �
�ti�as unc�er 2L�0 sQ, fte He stated that anv second accessory building in excess
of 2l�c� s�e ft. requir�d a special use permi� and also a building permit, :ie
arided that any i.mprovement, building, or renodeling in excess of �150, if he
remembered correctly, needed a permit.
Mr, Boardman�suggested that he could geL more info��mation on this anci it. cou�d
be �discussed again a.t the next meeting. piro Berg:nan said he �rondereti� if t:,e;•.
weren�t talking policy on this9 and if policy on this subject isn'� sametY�.ing
that this body aught to �iress itself to and recommend to Council, Chairpersen
Harris sta�ed this should be put on the next agenda ior discussion.
Air. Langenfeld said that• rega*�ding page 7 and the comrnent he made on �hat surveY,
he did say 'oif possib�e'Pp and it t�as not his intention to imply' 1;i:a-t thev didr�'t
need one. He pointed out that he had stated �_ater on th�.t th�y shauld have one,
but he thought that perhaps only a week�s ti:me to get a survey wus short notice.
Chair�rson Harris ea�lairaed �they could do it in a couple of days if they hac�
to and could find the s-ta;ces. .
I�ZOTI�N by Langenfeld� seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Corunissio�.minuLes
of August !�, 197E he approved as corrected. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye,
the motion carried un�.nimous]you
,�
a
Planning Commissien Meeting m�u�ust 18, 1976 ' Page �
RECEIVE HUMAN RESOURCFS COI�MISSIUN MI1�UT�St AUGUST 5� 1976
�
MOTION by Shea, seconded by Bergm�n� that the Planz�ing Commission receive the
minutes of the Human Resources Commission mee�ing of August 5, 1976. Upon a
voice vote9 all voting aye, the rnotion carried unanimously.
Mrs. Shea stated �that the discussion they had the last time she was present
at the Planning Commission meeting was on the alleged $10,000e She said that
since Parks and Recreation had th� Youth Center and Senior Citizens, they
deducted arbitrarily $?�9000 from that amount, Mrs, Shea s�ta'ted that th.e
Hvman Resources Commission fel'c they vaoul.d like �6,000 dedicated by the City
to Human Resourcese
I�r. Langenfeld asked if i�hen they spoke in terms of dedicating9 i.f they were
asking it be set aside. I�'irs, Shea said th�� as far as she could seey according
to the motion and in talking to A1re Scott on it, the same system will be used�
The various groups would still r.ave to come to Human Resources, �o the Planning
Commission and to Council for this money. Sh° stated t.here was no difference
from the �aay it was done last yeare Mr, Boardman corr�meni;ed that Human Resources
was requesting that a fund be put aside fnr. this moneye
Mrs. Shea stated that her Commission wished an action on this by the Planning
Commission, that they either pa.ss it on with approval or disapproval. She
sa.�d it was really difficult fc�r her to speak fo� the proposal, because if she
had been ther e she would have votEd against a.t. She statied �hat she taould
really like a more opendend policy9 where anybody could come ino Nir. Harris
said he concurred. �'1
Mr. Langenield said he �ras no-t trying to change the motion itself, but su.ggested "
a reserve for contingencybe eonsidered. He s�.id �hat would be a form of setting
aside specific funds for unusual occasions or happ�nir�gs. In other words, he
continued, if the Planning Commission voted ior it9 it would be just under
that particular name; if it was then needed ior some other i�appening or contingency,
that could come out of that �69000 i.n the Peent it was not consumed by the
Tiuman Resou rces Commission. He add�d it would b� almast like a cantingency
fund.
�Chairperson Harris sa.id he thought trh2t �hey �ere asking far iras �6,000 to be
set aside in a line item budget. Mr�. Bergman stat,ed he didn�t really see �ahat
difierence it made, then9 and su�gested tk!ey concur wiih selec-ted wordageo
AZr. Harris said he couldnet in good conscience vote for that� and added that
he was afraid that then there would be $6,000 �:o spen.d on Human Resources and
that would be it.
Mr. Langenfeld s�id he felt that eeen if this was dedicat�d, it t�rould be misinter-
preted that Human Resources did have $6,OOOe I�1rs. Shea said they did have
reques�s right now for funds; one was coming 1;hrough tonight and another would
be coming through in about a month.
I�ir. Boardman said �hat he tried to look at t:iese things as to U7hat was set up
under the ordinance for the Planning Commissione and the Planning Comnission
�
Plannin� Commission M�etin� —�ugust 18,� 1976 Page 5
has a du�y to recommend to the City Council on the Human Resources Commission
� minutes on policy recommendations only. He said that if a mo�ion was made� it
-- should be directed toe�ard the feeling that i�c would be against some overall
policy or� general policy of the City. �
Chairperson Harris staf,ed that �b,000 made this a policy decision, and since
what was started this.yeas �ould undoubtedly be continued, they tiaould be
setting a precedento
Mr. Langenield stated that Nlrs. Shea had given him the i.mpression that the
Human Resources Commission didn °� mi��d the �iay it idas done previously9 �he �ray
the monies came and whEre they came from. He said Y►e -thought it was the general
feeling of this Cornmis�ion tiiut it just remain that way. Mrs. Shea said that
was her otan personal feel�.n�, and Human Resources had discussed it when she
iaasn't therea
MOTIQN by Bergman9 seconded by Langenfeld ior_discussion, that the Planning
Commission, in recognition of the importance oi human development within the
Ci�y of Fridley, recommend such reco�nition to City Gouncil considering the
Human Resources C4mmission expectations that during the coming period monies
�aill be required to pursue Humat�a Resources programs and the anticipation that
expenditures cou�d approximate $69000, arad that this expecta�ion be consiaered
in the Council's budgetary processo
�Irs. Shea si;ated that the �6,J00 concerned her� and she ielt it mzght not be
eno>>grio P•:ro Langen�'�ld said },:hat �1� �'.,e�- Vrere doing w�s lowering the �10y000
r� figure from the last Meeting, and :Fi,rs. .Shea ex��.ained th3t had included tl'a�
Senio?� Citizens and the Youth Ce;�i,er. �qr. Langenfeld said that by the sam�
tcken, it could be �1Q,�00, 1'�irs, Shea said it cou7.d be� but it could be
�3,OU0, too, i�r. i,angenfeld said he would li�:e to scress his concurrence
taith the i.dea tha� the Planning Cammission and �che City of F?^idley should be
concerned �.bout Human Resourcesa He said9 however, that there was something
missing, and he couldn°t come to a conclusion. rirso Gabel stated shs agreed
with �rnat had been said, but didn�t think it was a goad idea to lock them
into a figtiire.
1�3ro Bergman said that he 1�as back to budgetary process here, but wondered how
the City Council could budget if nobody talked figurese He said the motio�
�ras made to avoid telling the City how to do it or which fund it should go to.
He said that was their prerogative.
I�tr. Langenfeld said that since Human Resources �ras a relatively new Commissior�,
he would like to see an actual e.hpenditure type thing for one year, or some
real figure guidelinE in order to make a decision. I�irrs. Shea s�ated tih��.t she
tiaould li};e to see one, too, if the City had such a thinga She said t:r.at last
December ar January she had sat on thi� Commission and heard tl� Chairman talk
�.bout nickel and dimir►g. Sh� further stated �Lhat she thought some of the peeple
who came through here last ye�.r were a lit-tle put out by the grilling they had
to go throu�h_to get their none,y. Chairperson Harris commented that he thought
a little more grilling shouid go on because they aiere spending the taxpayer's
mone,y. A4rs. Shea said that was perhaps the idea behind this--that t3ay they
!"�'� could get ii, all on one she�ta
Plaraning Comnission �eeting - Au�ust 18y �97�
Page 6
Mr. Peterson stated that if they were following a true budgeting .process, Human
Kesou.rces would say that each one of these functions was worth so rnuch money, �"1
ar�d that �ras a budgeting process. He s�id they were putting a dollar figure in ��
and tY�en carving up th� turkey a;te��ards. Mr. Ber�ma�� stated he didn't feel
i�hat is what was happening. lTe explained that tl�ey had looked at a line by lirie
list of what somebody called priorities and then put a dollar figure on them,
and what somebody else called a budget. He said that one �i the confusions
in that review was that �or lacl: of a firm statement of title being present
on that list, th�rdidn't know �rriat they were dealing with. He said thP request
4�as for priori�ties; Hur,lan Resources had beer. asked if they had $10,000 how they
caould spend it. He sta�ed the C�mmission then did put some dollar figures down
and came up with $10,0009 so there was a list, I�r. Bergman continued that they
looked at the bottcm item �ahich �•ras miscella�zeous or contingency of �3,000,
an.d he had felt a little oUjectionable to that, but there were line items and
he felt there still were. He stated he thou�ht that $6,000 could b�. referred
back to line items, so in that con.tert it was a budgetary-type submittal. -
Mr. Peterson said that the suggestion came from Staif to the Commission rather
than the Commission going throu;h and det�rminin� needs and putting them into
the budget. He statecl it was thErefore no� a budgetary process because Staff
was not supposed to ask questions of how they would spend money if they had it
in the budget. Mr. Bergman said he agreed, but he thought that at this point
in time he would like to consider this �udgetary process and make one out of it.
He said he thought that was what s:�ould have been done, and maybe it was time
som�ore consiclezed tha-t the proper thing i:� do. He continued that there were
line Zterns that could be toialed ta $6,CJQ0, and he �rould like to talk b�dge�ary
px�ocesse He agreed that that v:as iiot what hac't been talked9 and rie objec�ed �
to tha�. -
Chair�person Harris said they were lookin� at a very small portion of the budgetary
process, and the �total budgeta�^y px°ocess bothered him a little bit. He stateci
he Uaished the City would have corne along with a dollar amount of ��hat they are
alloi+red to spend9 say a million dollars. Cn�t of that million, he continued,
trie�* tiaould have to provide fire and police protection, plow the snotia and provide
a7.1 �he city servicsso He stated that also in there would. be a cDntingency
fund of X number of dolla.rs, say �50,OOOe Then9 he continued,, when i,hey were all
d.one doing that and if nothing �Tent haywi�e, .the�= tiaould have the �50,000 lef�
and could afford to do these other thi.ngs. He suggested that perhaps they could
afford more than $6,000 :�o do these other things and said he felt the City, if
it really triea9 could afford i�o do more things.
Mr. Boardman asked ti•rliat services he was going to cut out. Mr. Harris replied
that what he �aas saying was, instead of saying $6,000 to begin �aith9 why not
�rait before they do any funding to anybody until they could really see where
they were at. He suggested they see how much �•�as going to be left in the contingency
fund as maybe they couldn't afford to f`und Finc Arts and all of those things
this year. A�ir. Boardman conunented that New York did that, and Air. Haxris said
that wasn't all bad. �Ie added that �ahen you got down to the end and only had
$5 left in your pocket, you coul.3n't g4 out and spend $50. He said he didn't
thin�C they ��ere talking abc�ut drop�ing any sereices, but they might be cutting
ou-t something like a new dump trncic or air compressoro Personally.speaking,
he said, he Eaould rather see that ta�: money go back in services than sitting in �
a dump tru.ck, snd he thouoi�t it w�s time they star�:ed thinking that way. _
�lannin� Commission ME�ting - August 18, 1976 Page 7
Mr. Langeni'eld s�id he would like to emphasize that he felt an investment in the
/�1 Human Res�urces developmen�t wi�hin this City was a ti�orthwhile investme�tQ. He
° st,ated that it taas his inteniion that by se�tii�.g up that reserve they ro��ould not
h�.ve only $5 left, but taould be able to get that �69000. He said in other words,
excess of some-thing else �rould �hen go into this reserve anc� then these other
things could be taken out. Mr. Lan�enfeld said it would be a bookkeep�ng procedure
to establish that �rithin the bud�et9 but he defin�tely caculd like to see the
main items such as services �aken care of first9 wi.th oth.er items coming out oi
the excess.
UPOIJ A VOICE VOTE, Bergman voting. ay�¢ G�bel, Harris and �eterson votirrg nay, Shea
and Langenfeld abstaining, the motion failed.
MOTION by Langengeld, seconded by Shea, that $69000 be labeled in the budget
fo� the Hu.man Resources developmen�t.
2�r. Langenfeld explained tha� this tti*ay the Cauncil r�ould see .this be� ore them
and urould hav� to make a decision, Mr. Harris asked if he didn'�: thin'.{ that
�rould be limiting the Human Resourc�s cievelop�ien�ta and Mr. Langenfeld a?�staered
�that the way it was now it was terri�ily limi�t,ed.� A7a•s. Gabel said she iaas
concernEd about reierrir:g tio �the $6,.00Q to snend and was �ronderin�; i:£ that meant
wher� thE �6,000 was gon� Hurrcan Resources cleve�opme�lt woulci be corapletely cut
off. She said thez°e could be something ex-tremely �ror�hwhile that might corn�
up, and this seemed like it, ��aould rea,ll�� i�e lockin� thPri in, P�irs.. Sh�a said
when she as}ced f�he raernbers t?f trae Cc��an�_ssion that question, they said that is
what th�:y assum�do S'�.e ad���a tha� i:•�'iEy COU�.C21:�t f�res�e somethirlg that zrital
r�� comir,g upe P�r. T G;,.Ger•� ::� c! s�� it was r-i ��riT;r��si�:� that if' they e�:ceeded
�6,OC�09 there wouid be a fia� aenial for Tu•r+,Y:es funds fos that budget �ri�;l-iin
�that y�ear.
Mrm Ee�°gman said he ielt �tizcy saere get�ing all �.ied up in details and semantics
� rrelevt�nt to -the question. H� stated a budge�t. wa.s a budget and i,here is
flexi�ailit�� in bucigeise Mrse Gabel said that is what she Uras asking: Is there
flexirility behind �this f_igurE? P�ire Bergman said there ali�rays ha� to be judge-
ment9 and a budget figure was a guideline figure in his �,uid�rstanding oi the
budgeting processa
Mr. Langenfeld asked if they �rould still hav� to go through these proc�dures
for each particular itern if this was established9 and Mr. Harris replied that
ti,ras correcte
UPOiJ.� VO1GE VOTE, Harris voting nay, Bergman, Langenfeld, Gabel and Shea voting
aye and Mra Peterson abstaining, the rnotzon carried.
Mr°se Shea said the next item she tdould like to discuss was a request that some
of the F��rding be changed in �he City's Af£irmat.ive Ac�tion policy. She said they
would lik� ta rec�u'�.re. the ci-ty. to do btisiness with firms tha.t do not discriminate,
rather than er�courage, i�irs. Shea stated this was simply the semi-annua2. check-up
on the City�s Affirrnativz Actian �olicy, and they were granted this right by the
State Departm�nt. She saa.d they were asking that the City change a little bit
of its polic f.
� �
- Air. Langenf�ld said he didn't care for that "rzquire", and f�l� it was getting
too dictstorial. Mrs. Shea stated that the Federa]. la�a said it was required.
Pltinn3ng Commissian Meeting -�ugu�t 18, 1976 Page 8
Chairper�on Harris said he knew tirhat the law �asp but the only problem was that
it was very, v�ry difiicult in dea13.��g wiih the spectrum of all the businesses ^
that do business with the City of FridJ_ey to require them to do that. He
stai.eci that if there was a one or two man o�eration, or a very small con�ractural
opera�tion, it �rould be extremely difficult to doa
Mrs. Shea said that she realizEd. this wasn't an easy thing to do, but it was
the goal of Human Hesou.rces to keep looking at the City, and she didn�t think
anyone was going to bring suit against the Cityo She said it was their hope
that this iaould be looked at a lit;:le closer, because as it is now it wasn't
being looked at at all.
Mr. Bergman said tha�, according to his interpretation of the motion made in
the Human Resources minutes, it dces not require that the company with whom
the City taould do business have rriixed racial employment; it merely requires
th�t that company does not discriminate and has a�reed to take aiiirmative
action to recruit them. Mr. �ergmaai sai� that whether they have them or not
was not his interpretation of the requirement. Air, Harris commented tha�C it
was sometimes even difficult to try to recruit people. P�Iro Bergman said that
it was not difficult to make an eziort� which is what the statement askeda
Whether you succeed or not, he said9 is somet�hing elseo
Chairperson Harris s aid they should take i.n point the tree removal business.
Using this only as an example, he said, he would like to lrnow how many lady
tree cuttiers Mr. Bergman had seen latelyo t�ir� Bergman szid very few�, but they
may haye made efforts �o recruit one arid faileda He said 'the motion, as he
understaod it, appl�ed to intent9 not success; tYie requirement was that they �
mak� an effort. rirs. Gabel comm�nted that it zaas totally unenforceableo
Mr. �3ergman said it �ras his impr�ession that the Human Resources rec�mmendation
went further and usEd stxonger language than is common accepted practice in
other businesses �ahq also comply wit.h Federal and other guidelines on affirmative
action. He said he was sptaking specifically about just leaving out Lhe last
sentence of the motion. �
rTrs. Shea stated thai� the state guidelines on a.�'firmative action use the word
"require". I�1r. Bergman said yes, but they �pp�y that requirement to employers
and do not require of the county or municipal that the�� secondhandedly place a
requirement on the people with whom they do businesse P•grsa Shea said it �ras not
a law, but it was in the state guidelines.
Mr. Langenfeld said that he, personally, taas all for the affirmative action as
far as helping another individual or minority groups9 and so on, but he got the
feeling that sometimes when they got carried at�ray with these things they were
actually starting to tie a rope around the good, old-fashioned competition.
Aqrs. Shea said the second item under Affirmative Action v�as aimed at women. She
stated the City had payment programs for going on to school, but they feZt a
little. more P.R. work should be done on tiiiso P•irse Shea said it ti,ras simply
counseling for some women who tirere professiona.l, career-minded �romen, but iaho
sat behind a desk pounding a typeuriter. She stat�d a lot of them were ataare
�hat the progr�un existed, but the,y didn'�t quite �mow what they wanted to do so ^
they sat and d.id nothinga
.,,�,.,�,� _ ,
Plana�.in� Commission M�eting - Augu�� 18, 197b Page q
� Mrs. Gabel asked if �;he phrasE "proteci.ed graups'� referred specifically to Vaomen,
� and Mrse Shea said yes, in the City o� Fridley, Mre Bergman asked what k�as
� meant by "develop a career development program010 I�irs. Shea ans�rered it taould
be more or less a caunseling program for women� and it would help them decide
what courses to take ta become a technician or �o i.nta City P4anagement, etco
Mro Bergman said he Vras still a bit confused a� to wha� was mearit $y item 2.
He stated that the moi:ion "triat i;he City derrelop a career development program
to quali�'y protected �roups �'or advaricement" d� caz't mean telling women �rhat
courses to take, it me�r�t educating them. r�Irs. Shea said that the City does
educate, and it did have a tuition programo
Pflr. Langenfeld said that his personal opinion �aas that h� didn't like the
term "protected groups°' and would ra�her see "protected persons'�e He stated
he thought this should be ava.ilable not only to women but to anyone who was
pigeonholed and had talents. Mrso Shea expl ained the schooling vras available,
but not the counselir_g. P•Zr. Boaxdman asked if the schaoling was availablea
He stated he was urider tne irnpression tha�: the school �rograris were available
if the City Manager felt it tiaould be oi benef-zt to the position that person
was in. He explain�d he ceuld take courses, but the only time the City ��ould
pay �ras wrien the courses related to the position he was in. ,
Mre Peterson said that v�as hasically the Internal Revenue's ruling9 and that
is what the City �ras folloi�ring. He e�.plained tha�t the only t•ray a person could
qualify for tax deduction f'rom tYie Internal �evenue was ii the schooling
� improv�d his skills iiZ his presenu jcb, He addeci tha�. he tiiought the City
SJas �etting an Y'2.tY1PL'' sha�;� ground getting into somethin� th�.t z•:as cot:nter-
`�� current to the t�: la:�:s, P�iis. Gabel stated i� �ras h�.rd to defir.e z.�ha� courses
would help someone in the job he �ras in. She said a pretty broad spectrum
oi things could be advantageous to the job a.s a tahole, T7r. Boardrnan said that
taith regaxd t•o the secretaries9 a shorthar_d course i•TOUld advance their sxills
in their present jo�,, but ta.�:ing manageanent courses would not.
Mrs. Shea suggested tha-t she �inish going thro�agl� the �ffirmative Act�on items,
and rather than t.he Co.^�mission ta}:ing any action on this it could be tabled
until the next meeting when 2•�. Boardman could come back with an answer from
the City.
Mrs. Shea stated that the third ?iem concerned the Human Resources Commission
asking for a serli-ar�nual report of the progress of the Affirmative Action polic�t.
She said that they �rould like a breakdown every six months� The fourth item9
she continued, concerned the City making a cemmitment to seek placing of persons
in non-�traciitional job classeso rirs, Shea state� that they knew eventually
there taould be a female police officer� and -�here was ane female liquor store
manager at this time. She said they were �sking that the City continue its
effortsm
Mr. Peterson asked why the Human Ftesouress Commission elected two members to
the Youth Board, and rirs. Shea said she didn��L know, but would ha�re to find out.
MOTION by Shea, seconded by Pei.erson, that the Plannin� Commission table the
�„� .Aff�rmative �Cction Pro�x°am until the next meel;ing. Upon a voice vote, all voting
aye� �he motion carried titntv�imou�ly.
� .
Plann3ng Commission Meetin� -�ugust 18,�_�19?� Page lU
Mrs. Shea said she �ould like to discuss the motion by the Human Resources
Commission that $1,OOU be desi�nated, for the next six months, to the Fridley
Fine Arts Committee. She stated that the rine Arts Committee could not suppozt �'y
itself, and they �elt it was a vrorthwhile venture in the City. She explained �
that this year they were asking for $1,000, and last year they had requested
a little bit more. She further e�cplained thGt the six months was a compromise
simply because most of the Commi.ssion felt they should get more than the �1,000.
Chairperson Harris asked what thei� prograrn :yas9 and Mrs. Shea replied that
they had another play coming up and over the �rinter they hoped to sponsor
concerts. She explained that �h� play �rzs the big expenditure last year, whicn
came to $2,800; and they used the City's money and Community School's money.
Mrs. Shea said that they had made $750 on the play tatal receipt, and as far as
they could see there was no way they would ever break even. Nix, Peterson
asked if they made any kind of an effort to broaden �heir base as far as
participation t�ent9 and Mrs. Shea replied tha'c they made great effort through
t�e paper.
Mr. Bergman said that he had seen the play 1QYou Can't Take It With You"p which
had run three raights, and there Y�a,d been an a�rfully small percentage of the
population in at�,endance. He stated he �aas b�thered a little bit by the figures,
and felt tha� possibly th�y might be trying to force eulture doUm people's
throats who �reren't that interest.ed ir. buying culture. He added. tYzat if tr.e
play receipfi,s tiaere �750 and the costs were �2,8fl0, that said somethinge He
further added icha� ihe �2,100 def°icit was being paid �or by the other citizenry,
whether they knew i�t or not9 and if they �reren� t that inter�s �ed, sY:ould tne
money be spent ihat w3��? Mrs. Gabel sta'ted that on the other ha_nd, she thougr�t
the cammanity should be given some time fcr t;�e exposure to cultureb ar.�. s::e �
ti�ould like to g� ve i�. a chance m 1•ir. Peterson comrr�ented that the Footli�hters
went out of existence for the same reason.
Mrs. Shea said that the idea behind the Fine Arts was -ta introduce local art?sts,
and she felt it was a new concep-t and should b� given some time. i�r, T;angenield
said he agreed with Nl�se Shea, and adde� that the Fine Arts Committee �ras just
getting their feet w��t. He stated that they might malce n;oney on a rock 'n roll
type musical, cr samething else ta compensate for the loss of the pla�Ts, He
further stated that according to the Housing Plan, in which there was an
ir��tensive s�udy, t•hey four.d the residents of Fridley were becoming more mature,
and perhaps they i�rould become more culture-minded if an effart was cantinued.
Mrs. Gabel corrunen�ed that she didn't think the expasure Vras as great as i:
could bee
Chairperson Harxis stated that bef�re he could vote for this in good conscience
he would like to see thezr program for the nex� six months to sne how the mone,y
would be spente
�lOTION by Shea, seconded by Peterson9 that the Plaruiing Commission table the
discussion on the $1;000 to be designated to the FridleS� Fin� Arts Committee
until the next meetingo Upon �. vaice vote� all vo�;ing ayes the mot�on caxried
unanimously.
RECEIVE AP�'�LS COI�IMISSIJN MIR'UTES a AUGUST 1t��1976
MOTION by �ergman, secor.ded by Shea, that the Plannin� Commission receive the
minutes of the Appeals CO111Ifl1SS1021 meeting of August 10, 1976. Upon a voice
�`1
.-�=�
,�
Planning Cormnission Meetin� -�►ugust 18, 19'l� Pa�e 11
� . vote, all voting aye, the rriotion caz�ried un�nimausly.
Mrs. Gabel said she wanted to comment tha�, the other..night.at the Council
meeting, they talked about having a meeting with referEnce to the �0' lots,
a,nd they said they would wait un�il Mrs. Schnabel was out of the hospital.
Chairperson Harris stated that Mrs. Schna.bel9 the.A7ayor and he r.a,d discussed
this and decided to get all of �their figures together and hold a meeting in
the �atter pari, of Sept.�mber when she tras able to a�tencl.. He said he V�ondered
if Staff, from a plar�ning standpoint, couid corne up �aith some .recommendations
b� that time. Mr. Boardman said �hey would do that9 arid added that.the meeting
would probably be the four�:h meeting of the mon�th.
Mrs. Gabel said she didn't ��aant to get into a cliscussion on this� but ��ould
like to ask a question, She stateci she had seen a book of homes that would
fit on �.0' lots, bui: same were very peculiar in shape. She �•aondered if this
wouldn't involve a tremendous an-iount of cost to build these unusual designs.
Mr. Harris repZied not in a1Z cases as it deper�ded on wha� form they were
trying to pu� it into.
RECEIVE COI+�NNITY DEVEI,C�P��NT �C���ZISSION P�ITNUTES s AUGUST 108 1976
R�i0TI0N by Bergman, seconded by Gabel, tha� the Planning Commission receive
the minui.es of the Commut�i�y DevE _opment Corr�r,ission meEtin� of August 10,
1976e Upon a voice �ote9 all vc�-�ing ayey the.notion aaxried ur�animously,
�°"� Mre Bergman stated he ��uld like to discuss I�;em A, the recommendation on
gara�es in R-1 zoning, an.d resta�e briefly the Co.mmunity L�evelopment Cornmiss�cnys
reactivn �o current status rega.r�din� �.0' lof, contr�ls as recommendEd previou.sly
by this body. He said tha� concer�ning Item A, it was questioning the requirem
ment for garages in R-1 zoning, 3nd had started ou-L as a question brought up
by the Board of Appeals regarciing t,he requiremEnt �or garages on substandard
lots or anything less �han 7��,
Mr. Bergman said they some,ahat grouped those two questions in coming up with
their recommendation9 asid in do�g so reviewed some input from Staff. He
explained they had a code item from Coon Rapids and one from Roseville and a
general comment with regard to the question oi.�;arages being required on �
substandard Iots. He siated thst other communities were checked with and there
was no response because �hey trere doing as �ridley had previously done9 and
weren't recognizing 1�0� lo�s as being buildable, He said they did recognize
from the Coon Rapids ordinance something that they would like to recommend
Fridley adopt, and that is the recognition that a ga.rage is pertinent to a
house� not to a lota He added that Fridley's ordinan�e should read thuslyg
and that would simplify th� situation. hir. Boai dn�an then read the follo�ring
from the C�mmu.nity Development mir�u�es of August, �0, 1976: Motion by Forster,
seconded by Sck�n�ider, that the Comrm�nity Develo�ment.Commission recommends
to the Planning Commission that one enclosed garage space r e provided per
dtdelling unit. _
r,,.� Mre Boa.rrdman asked if that tiaasn't . strictly ior in a R-1 zone, as they did have
diiferent garage requirements far multiple uniLS. Mr.. B�r�man replied yes,
- that did ge�L leit off. tie explained the moi.ion zdas either in consideration of
Planning Commis�ion Nl�eting -�dugust 1�, 197�
r.
Page 12
R-1 zoning or in consideration af one encl�sed garage space per d�aelling unit
in single or c�ouble dc�elling units. Mro Boardman said they wer� talki.ng ^
strictly about single units as the double requirement for a garage was 1 2
stalls per unit. Mr. Bergman said then this was specificaily to a single
fam_Lly dyrelling unit, but he was not going to concur that they talk R-1
zoning. He suggested they talk about a house, as that tieas ��hy a garage
was needed9 not because of zoning, He brought to the attention of the Commissioners
the five reasons given for �he motion,
Mr. Boardman said that before they got into a lot of discussion on this, he
would like to reco�r,end ichat this item be tabled until Staff cauld gather
information together and come up with a recom,mendation on this as to how this
relatss to the Comprehensive Hausirig Plana He suggested i-t also be sent to
the Hwnan Resources Commission to get their feeling on it, Mr. Boardman said
that maybe a garage v.nit should :-��t be reguir�d for any single family dwelling9
and explained that they were lookir,g at a possibili-ty of people buying houses
that they could afford and at a later date be able to build a garage themselves.
He said that people usually coul_dn't buil� �. house themselves, however, a garage
z,�as a little easier type oi thing that -tizEy could be able to handlea He
continued that if a garage uxiii. wasn�t required at this time9 they might see
even double units developed when t]-ie family could afford to build them. 12rse
Shea asked if they �rere talking a�out new bui�dings, and Chairperson Harris
replied they were9 as there was r,oiching they could do about existing dwellings.
P�Is�s. Gabel aslced if ��hen NIr. B�ardmara checl;ed v�rith Roseville and Coon ftapids
and they said they didn't deal tvith substanr�a-rd lots, if this meant they had
not� come to the point wh�re people w�re re�u�sting to build on these or th_at r^
their codes stated that they could not buil�. on them, Mro Boardman replied
that their c�des stated that a g�.rage unit was required on all single family
units. 7n other words, lze explained9 to bu�ld on substandard lots they had
to have a garage unit. He said that they dor�'t consider the size of the lot
where the dz�relling is to be builtq they consider the garage as correlating
to the unit. He added th�t Brooklyn Center had no requirements on their
single family houses, but did require two ofF-street stalls. Mr. Langenfeld
commented that there vaas no question tha�, a garage was patinent to the existing
structure and not to the lo�t, and he was glad �`i,o see tlzat come outo
Mr. Boardman wondered.if an undue hardship wouldn't be placed on somebody .
who migh�t be able to afford a h�use in the City if a garage wasn't constructed
along tirith it, and at a later date �hen they got better off financially they
cc+uld asford to build a garage. Ciia.irperson Harris sa.id he thought the percentage
cost of the garage compared to the house wzs rather sm�11, and thought that
if a iarnily could swing �th� finasiair_g on the rouse they could make it on the
garage alsoe Mr. Bergman said he would have to ask if they wouldnQt be causing
an undue hardship on the neigh�o^s on eithcr side of this lot if' the new
builder iaasn't required to build a�arage to enclose all the items which mi.ght
otherwise be out in the yard9 and that might ca�ase a possible safety hazard
to the children of the adjacent pr�pertcy otaners. He said there were two sides
to the coin.
Mrs� Shea stated that she would lik:e to take this item back to the Human Resources
Commi.ssion, and Chairperson �iarris said �hai; Sta.i� had requested that this be r"�
tabled. J
_,,�,,.� ,
��
Planning Commission 2dleetin� - Aue st IQ, 197�
Page l3
r� MOTION by Peterson, seconded �iy Shea� that the Flarining Commission table the
" discussion or� garages until the next meeting. Upon a voice vote, all voting
aye, the inotion .carriec� unanimously.
Mrs. Gabel said she would like to request that these different discussions,
such as 'that of the Com,muni-ty pevelopment meeting, be iorerarded to the Appeals
Commissiono She explained that then ever�rone on the Board of Appeals would
have this information availablea Mr� Harris asl.ed when they could expect
thi� item back on the a�;enda, and iir. Boa-rdman reglied probably on September
22nd.
Mr. Bergman said he iaould like to recogniz� what apparently was happening
here and register a mild complaint., He stated that this item had been before
Community Development for fo�.r meetings, and it was tabled three times; each
ta�'ne requesting input from aci�ainisi,ration, Having tabled it three times,
he continued, and �ritl2 som� pustiir�g by the Commission Chairmari ta�:ing action
on it for the fourth time, it appeared �hat Staf'f was sti11 researching the
data. He�said he would have preferred that the researching �aould have been
done sometime during the past four rr�onths and provided to the Commissions
to consider: Mr. Boardman s�aied that the tabling in the first place was
probably his fault. He er.plained that Cornmunity Develo�ment had requested
input from outside sources, surrounding commwiities, aric? this type of�thing;
anc at the .last meetinp 5ta_�:g had just pulled'that informa'ciari together for them.
He further explained that, Com�r�unity 1�evelopr.lent had made �heir reccrn.mendation
at -1,heir last rneeting, �ZCl Sta.sF t�axat�d time �� digest ti+Tnat t•he results of
r''`1 that recommendation woulci be. He added chat tYi�y also �,ranted some r�sp�r.se
from Human Resources as to ha1•� that i�ould relate to t.he. housing program.
Mro Bergman said he would like -�he record to show �he revieir by the Cammunity
Development Commission of the minu�tes, the letters.and the development seen
subsequent to Community Development�s recorrunendations toUrard the Eoard of
Appeal's concern about approval of development of 1�0' 3ots. He continued that
reading from their past rr.inutes, it iaas CDC's imprrs�ion that s�me clarification
of their initial motior� was in order or. iwo �arf.icular poir�ts: 1) That it was
the intent of Commzuzity Development that "the petition.er make every effort t�
oconform to city ordina.nce" and that a person coming in with seven variance
requests was not making that effort; and from CDC�s vie�r, that was grounds for
deniale 2) That "If there is an available lot9 even if it cannot be purchased9
then the request for I�uilding on 3!t0' lot should be denied". This, he said,
referred to adjacent undeveloped property. Mr, Bergman said those were the
recommendations of Comiriunity Development, and what came out of riayor Nee's letter
and so forth was quite different,
Mrs. Gabel stated that there has been a lot oi confusion regarding !t0' lots,
which ��aas �ahy they asked for that meeting. Ch.airperson Harris commented that
hopefully it wot�ld all be ironed oui, in September. I�irs. Gabel said something
else she thought waG important ti:Tas that the Cit� of Fridley should have some
responsibility to the people �•;r.o a3ready lived there to �ee to it that the
homes that were being built caere compatible with tlle rest of the neighborhood.
� She said the people living in the existing homes had a quality of living that
' Faas desirable to them, anzi she didn't think i he Cit,y had the riglit to let someone
" put a house in taithout a garage and let their junk sit out if the rest of the
hQUSes in the neigl�borhood had garages. She tdas concerned. a.bout c4iiat this would
do to �he quality of �h� nei�;riboi•ho�a.
Plannin� Commission Meeting - Augu�t 18, 1y76
Page l�
Mr. Bergman stated they had discussed in Comraunity Development a trap or an �,,,�
assvmed misconceptiont someone �Lies substandard lots �o people of low income,
and they agreed that was an assumption tha� tnay have no validity. He said
that people of low income have many other opportunities for housing, and it
doesn't have to be that ii the Gity doesn't allow people to build on 1t0' l,ots
they were discriminating against people of lo�a income. �
le TA?LEDe PUBLIC HEAIiIidG: CONSIDF�.ATION UF A PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. #76°�5
INI'1SBRUCK I�ORTH REPLkT THIRD aL1DITI0i�1 BY DARREL A. FARR DLVELOPP�ENT
CORPORATIOIv: Being a repla� of L�ts 1 to inclusive, �locks 21
through 2, and also part of Lot l, Bl�ck 28, Innsbruck North Townhouses
Thi.rd kddi�ion� to allot,r changes in �.he s�.ze of garages, generally located
on the Vlest side of East Bavarian Pass a.�d South of Meister Road N.E,
Public Hearing Opena
Mr. Boardman sta�ed he had done research on this and talked to Jim L�ndon on
it. He said that l�ix. London was trying to cor.vince Darrel Farr to submit a
request for withdrawing this requeste P�Yr•. F3oardman said that at this time he
�ould like the Planning Commission to recommend �hat by the next meeting they
expect a request ior withdrav�al on this item or they wi11 take action on it.
Chairperson Harris suggested it be rephrased that the Planning Commission would
table this item �,:ntil the next meeting and expect to t,al:e action on it then.
Mr. Boardman said then if the Planning Commi.ssion tcok a.ction and denied the
request and if' it was also denied by th.e Cif,y Council, then Darrel Farr could
not reapply for a six�-manth �eliod of times IFr. Eoardman stated he was sure ,�
the.y t,rould withdraw on this because 17arrel �`ar..r and the Townhouse Association
�
held completely different views.
Mr. Bergman recalled that at the l�.st meetin� the statement was made that the
longevity of a requesi was sixty days. Mr� ioardnatz sa�_d he had done research
on that also, and found there tiaas no limit tl�at �ras set on the subdivider to
table, but there was a limit set on the Plaraning Cc:nmissiori to act. l�ir. Pe�erson
poin�ed out that then they couldn'�t act on this next time if the petitioner
asked for it to be tabled, as he had the prerogative �.o keep delaying. Mr,
Boa.rdmari said �hat taas a good point9 and suggested the motion should read that
it �ould be tabled indefinitely so �hat the Cammission wouldn'� have to respond
to it any more.
MOTION by Peterson� seconded b;� Langenfel�9 that the 1'ublic Hearing on consideration
of a preliminary plat, PeS, #76°05, Innsbruck North REplat Third Addition, b;�
Darrel Ao Farr Developmer�t Corporation, be tabled indefinitely until the petitioner
asks it to be withdrawn or put back on the a�enda. Upon a voice vote, all voting
aye, the motion carried unanimously.
"� e �t,j$j„�C uFART1�f t• }�F lj�'ST FnR A SPF.('TAT. iJSE PERN��.�ri..P�76-1 � BX PIiC �
�a INCORPO�AT�° To permit a film prucessing drop�off booth, per
Fridley City C���e, Section 205.101, 3., (I), to be located ori Zot 1, Block
l, Sylvan Hills 1'lat 7, the sarne being 2Lt8 Mississippi Street N.E. �
�
_��„
Planning Commission I�eeting - Augu�t 189 1976 Page 15
Messrso Randolph Toth, Jack Helmen and Maria Fernandez were present, all
r� representing Pako Pho+.00
�
MOTION by P�terson, seconded by Eergman, that the Planning Commission open the
Public Hearing on a reque�t for a specual use permit, S.P. #�76�12� by Pako
PhQto, Incorporated. Upari a vaice vote, all voti.ng aye, Chairperson Harris
declared the P�zhlic Hearin� open at 9:35 P.M.
Mr. Boardman ex�lained that this was a request for a special use permit for
a film processing drop�off' s�.milar to Mo�tofoto, and would be in the sarie place
that P�Iotofoto was located in the sma11 shopping center across from Holly. :�ie
stated that since this vaould be basically the saae type of operation that
Motofoto �ras, Stafi would go along vai_th �, special use permit on this but would
require that they be restricte�. under the same st;ipulations that t,rere placed
on the r�otofoto operation, listed on page 5�,
2�Zr. Bergman asked if he could assume that the only requirements in order
to meet all applicable codes and or�inanCes �rere 1} special use permit
wiLhin the ordinance, and 2) washroom iaciiities. Mr. Board�-nan said tnat
�ras correcte
Mro Fernande�z stated the building they were proposing to instal3 ��as state�
approved construction, so par�c of' the building �aould be guaranteed by a seal
of approval by the state. He explained that it t,rould be manuFactured in to;�
and t�r� nspor�ed to the site �°�d instal�e�, anci all necESSary perr�its rad been
filed.. Mr� Fernande� shot,�ed t� t,he C�Tuni�sior� a model of ihe building t;he�•
�'`� �:ere pi°opo��;zga He continu�d th�.t in some accasions some commur�ities �ii,GJ4..11�`:1
objections to small struct•ures unattached to other buildings, and he felt
parA� of their objections were that the operations such as Fotomat or A:otofoto
were buildings rnade mostly �,ut of inetal, �.igh-t in weight, and susc��cible to
be blov�n by wind, etce He sta1;ed they nad t�kera into consideration all of
those situations and had provided a building that was b�uilt exactly as a ho:ne
would be. He continued th�t it would be pleasing in appeara3:ce and. would not
detrac�; fro�a the City but add to ite P�Ir. Fe.rnandez stated that Pako Pnoto ;•ras
a very well=respected neig.il�or in the cornmuni�`i,y, and the City wouldn�t be
dealing �aith a sma11 �peration that wouldn't take caxe of i�s facilities. rie
said it �aould be maintained all the timz and comply with all the regulations
the Ci�y had at present. He stated that basicalJy those �•aere their points,
and he iaould be happy to anstrer any questions.
Chairperson Harris asked if he had read the stipulations on page 55-2n� if
he had any objections. Mr. Fernandez replied they had taken steps to comply
with all oi the stipulations listed.
Mro Z�igenfeld stated �hat �;he iirst siipulation sn.ould be changed a.s far as
�he la-tter part of thc sentence was concerned. vhairperson Harris agre�d,
and said i:hat "and approved by the Fuilding Standa�ds-Design Control Sub-
commi.ttee" should be st..ricken. Mr. 13oardman said he believed those traffic
pai�erns had been ��orked out for �iotoioto before and would be utili�ed a.�ain
for this opera,tion.
� Cha.irp�r�on Harris asked l.f t•I1PPE' �•aas heat in those buildings, and Iiar. Fernandez
replied it had electric�.l heatin� that was designed to meet the new energy.
Pl�nning Commission Meeting — Au�ust 18, 1.9?6
Pa�e 16
requirements, and it would be insulated exactly like a home.
MOTTON by Bergmaai, seconded by Peterson, th�.t the Planning Commission close ^
the Public Hearing on the request for a Specia.l Use Permi�, S.P, #/76-12, by
Pako Photo, Incorporated. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson
Haxris declared the Public Hea.ring closed at �':1t3 Poi�i.
MOTION by Peterson' seconded by Bergm�n, that the Plannir�g Commission recommend
to Council approval of the request. for a special us� permit, S.P, ��76�12,
by Palso Photo, Incorporated, to permit a film processing drop�off booth, per
Frid.ley City Code, Section 205.1oi, 3, (I), to be located on Lot 1, Block l,
Sy1van Hills Plat 7, the same being 2118 Mississippi Street Pd.E.9 with th�
stigula�ions agreed to by the City a.�d Pako Photo listed on page 55 of the a�enda.
which are as follows:
(1) The traffic patterns be the sam� as worked out by administration
, for the previous request (SP 4�'73-12, Motofoto)
(2) The parking lanes be striped and directional arrows be provided for
traffic directiono
(3) All u�ility lines be unc;erground.
(4) A letter be obtained �rom an adjacent tenant stateing the employees
can use the public facilities, within 200 feet of this film booth.
(Already provided)
(5) In the event the building has to be removed for any reason, the parki��
1ot will be-returnecl to its original coadiditon.
Mr, Langenfeld stated he h�ould like �o see it put in �he record that this
particular buildin� would defini�ely follow �he same design as the modelo ,Iro
Fernandez stated they had already subrr�tted a set oi plans i�entical in a11
details to what they were seeingo
UPON A VOICE VOTE, all vo�ing aye, the mo�.iori carried unanimously.
�3� or�n,vamZON RE�UES �SAV �76-059 ASSURANCE NI�.NUFACTURING CCI�iPANY: To vacate
the 16 foot drainage and utility easer�en-t oounde on e vror�h by the
Westerly ext.ension of the l��rt,h line of Lot �9 Block 7, Onaway Addition,
and bounded on the South by the itiTesterly extension of the South line of
Lot 7, Block 7, Onatiaay Addition� to allo� the connection of the buildings
on both sides of the easement with a structure, the same being 7753
Beech Street N.Eo
Mr. �oardman explained that there was an alley there before which had been
vaeat�d, and not<, Assurance Manuiacturing wanted to vacate the draina�e and
utility easements that were being held in that alley sc� they can build across
the alley and joiri up with a builc�ing they k*ant to bu�r across i;he street.
He stated the City had contact uith t.he utilit,y compa.nies and had received
letters back from them saying t,here �aas nc� problem as far as t.tiey taere concerried.
Mr. Boardman said the only conc2rn the City ���uld have would be ior dra'inage, �
and one of the stipulations .for this approti*al t,rould be the dedication of new �
drainage easement to the South oi �their baild:�ng �o handle the dra.inage tliat
is coming dotan along �;he alle��r�Yo he ��:plai.ned they would. take it out to
Beech Street9 and the F�gineering 1)�par�,met�t had looked at it and said there
��ere no problemse �
�-�, ..
.,:�
MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Sriea, that the Plannin� Commission recommend
to Council approval o£ vacatian r�que�t, SAV �76405, l�ssurance M�nufac�turing
Company, to vacat� the i6 foot draina.ge an.d utility easement bounded on the
North by the Westerly extension oa the North line of Lot 5, Block 7, Onaway
Addition, end bounded on the South by the Westerly extension of the South line
�'� of I;ot 7, Block 7, Onaway Addit�i�n� to allow the co�ection of the buildings
''" on both sides of the easernent with a structure, the same being 7753 Beech
Street N.E., with the dedica�ion of a new drainage easement.
Mr. Bergman asked iahat v�as considered a stand3.r�d drainage easement �ridth, and
if there was such a thing. rir. Boardr�an said that usually they tiaere �;alking
about ten feete Mr. Bergman said he woridered if tha�. should be specified ir�
the motion..
Mr. Peterson AI�TEI+IDED �he MOTION to include the specification of a 10' drainage
easement. Seconded by Shea.
UPOTd A VOICE VOTE9 five voting aye ana Mre Harris abstaining' the motion
caz�ried.
Chairperson Harris exp7_ained his reason for abstaining was at one time h�
owned a portion of abutting properiy �o that vacation and still held some
paper on it, and therefore �o avoid any conflicts he abstained.
Chairperson Harris declared a recess at 9:5� P.i�. and reconvened the meeting
at. I0:20 P.T�10
�.. CONTINUID : HLn�IAN D�VELQPT�IENT GOAI�S AIJD QBJECTTVES o
f� Mr. Boardman stated that at one of the previous meetings they had gone through
all of 'che goa3. statements under the goal area of Hi:man Development and approved
wording on �nat9 and now he woald likE to go ira�o D2�0 �al�ich reZated to
lea�nir�g and cultural development of residents, He said that under t.his he felt
that there would be thrce program objectiv�s: �
lm Promote an awareness and appreciation of the Humanities.
2. Help stimulate appreciation and participation in iine arts in
the comrm�nity.
3. Ehcourage an interaction of learning facilities and programs
necessary to alloUr resudents a t,ride choice of pursui�s in education,
training and cultural development, •
Mr. Bergman said that he would like a definitian of the word �'humanities".
Nlr. Boardman informed him that the Human Resources Commission suggested as
humanities po�try, history, biography, science, fiction, music, art, painting
azid sculpture. He s�;ated -that as far as he was concerned, painting and
sculpture would be fine arts9 but they were in the r,umanity grou� o� activities,
Mr. Boara°nan said that the areas he was thinking of covering under the Human
DevelopmEnt section �aere �the parks and recreation area, learning and cultural
development of citizens, providing public information communication� promoting
eftective methods to provide human services (day care centers, ete.), encouraging
programs designed to promote effective human understanding taithin t.he community
� ( elderly pr�ograms or youth progr�ms to help ge�, sorr�e interaction taithin a
communii,y). He said that hopatully witl-a these goal statements h� had covered
- a11 axeas Goncerned with hwnan devslopment as _far as Human Resources went. He
added that there i�•ere other axeas tinde� Fiuman Re4ources tiahich Urould be located
in other areas; for instance� hum�.r� raghts s�r�uld be incorporated under a s�cur-ity
�;���..
�:
Plannin� Commission Meetin� m August 18, 1976 Page 18
section. He s�id that under securir.y he �as talking about those things which
promote human rights or social justice and that type of thing.
Mr� Bergman asked if it vaas the a.nter�t that the section on Human Development �,.,
gosls and objectives by part of the cif;y's comprehensive plan, and what was
the end purpose of a Human Development section. Mr, Boardm�n explained they
were developing the goals and objectives of the community. He said there were
five major goal areas, and under those goa:l areas they had goal statements
and plan objectives. Under those9 he said, they had program plans which were
actually vaork plans that t�till be devised ta meet the requirements of the
objectiveso He added that under those �aork plans thea� may be designations for
a comprehensive park plan or comprehensive housing plan.
P�trs. Shea asked Mi. Boardman if �e would go through the five goal areas,
and he stated housing9 human d�veJ_Gp:nent9 security9 access and community vitality.
He said that at this i�ime he didn't have anything more to say about D200 as
he felt he had covered that area which ta�uld help ioster an attitude to stimulate
life-long motivation for learning and cultural developmento I�Irs. Shea said
she vrould like to request that a copy of Goal Statement D200 be sent to
Human Resources.
Mr. Boardman s'cated that under D300 he had four program objectives, and Goal
Statement D300 vras '�Provide public information and communication in order to
foster an awareness of the City�s varied activities and availability to these
activities". He then read the follo�aing program objectives to the Commission:
D310 Secure and maintain a'clearing�house of iniormation' position
with respect ta public a.nd semi-public9 cultural, vocational
and recreational progra.*n op��ortunities.
�
D320 Provide for adequate and viable mea.ns of par�,icipation, redress
and reasonable aceess to the ai�airs of local government for
all citizensa
D330 Provide for efficient method of dissemination of informationo
D31�0 Promote a g� eater coopera�ion and mutual understandi ng betiaeen
the public9 semi-public and private sectors of the populationo
P�lr. Boardman explained tha't �ahat he meant by "semi-public" was churches, the .
F�ed Cross, all serwice organizations and that t3�pe of thin�. He also
explained that a"clearing-house of iniormation" would be a type of position.
He cited an example that if somebody �ranted information regarding recreational
programs, etce9 he would be able to come ta the City because that is a position
they �aould like to crea�e. He said the City �aould be a clearirig-house of
infarmation. Chairperson Harris asked if that wouldn'� take Staff, and Mr.
Bowrdman replied that it �aould be an operation oui of the City Manager's office.
He s�id they �aere providing a certain amount of this anyway, but there should
be more organiza�ion in what they were doing.
Chairperson Harris said that 320 brought to his mind the recommendation by the
Charter Commission about redress and. reasonable access to the affairs of 1_ocal
goeernment for all citizens. He �.ddcd that the Charter Commission wanted to
charige the Charter in the area of p�titions for r�call and things like that, n
and �ondered ho�� that would fit in with D32a. Md. Poardman said he was talking
about if a person ielt he was cheated9 ho�r would triat person come back in to �''
discuss his problem? He stated tha� wha� he hoped to have come aut of this was
Planning Comm3.s.sion Meeting - Au�ust 18, 1976 � Page 19
�"'� some City policy on what a citizen could do in a circumstance such as that;
, who to talk 1;0, �nd that type of thing. He added tha� right now they had
nothing aeailable. P�irs. Shea asked if �this included the Police Department, and
Mr. Boardman replied it did. He said that he thought there r�ras something very
lacking in the Ci�y as far as communication bet�reen its residents and local
government and this goal si.atement was something that, hopefully, a policy
would come out of by the Citym Chairpersora Harris stated he wasn't arguing
with it, but was just Urondering how they were going to implement it. He said
the redress of the public to the City was a very touchy subject. Mr. Boardman
stated that he though� that was the reason there were wall_s buil� between the
City and 'che community, and the Cit;,r should try to break those walls downe
Airo Harris said he agreed, but tiaondered houa i;hey could do that. Mr. Boardman
explained �hat once the gaals 2nd objectives were es�;ablished by the City Council,
then it would be up to the Gity Administration to set up a work plan to achieae
those objectivese
Mr. Bergman said that he �.�ould like to comment on Dj40. He stated that he was
a citizen of Frid.ley, b�a-t his children went to Calumbi.a Heights� schools and
he felt �. very defini�� and specific split layaltya He said that he �as
involved and interested in Columbia Heights� news as it had any aifect on th�
schools, which are where his children V�ent and that was impurtant to him; and
it detracted irom his interests and loyalty i,�ith the City of Fridley. P•ir.
Bergman said he �ras aware that the school dis-Lrict�s boundaries �iid rot coincide
w�Vh the City's bounddries on three, if not four sid.esy but if community address
was Uranted to F'ridley there was a sizable nu.mber af people �rith split loyalty
j� and sgli� interesto He continued that ne lived on the Nor-th side of b9i�, and
across the s-Lreet from him �,•as the Innsbruck area., South of 691�, and those
people were also citizens of' Fridley but were actually more Columbia 'rIeignts
t;h�u°� he was because they �rer e on the other s�de of a g�ery obvious boundary
structuree He stated 'there �rere a lot of Fridley people around with only partial
recognition that they ��rere part of Fridley, and the other recognition that
they were part of the community where their children went to school. He said
there was.a Iot of split loyal�y in thzt situation.
Mrs. Shea commented that srie d;dn�t feel thai split loyalty that much, bu� did
feel like �he City of Fridley had let them down in a way as there were no
� Fridley parks in her areao Mr. Boardman said another problem relating to the
split�loyalty situation r�ight be the dissemination of informatiun, and asked
how often they got s�mething from the City of Fridley telling them iahat programs
were availsble and that type of thing. Mr. Bergma;z stated that there ti�as a
close relationship betta�en the schools and the City, and he could care less about
District ll�m He said�that,.to some extent, detracted from his interest in what
s�ent on in Fridley. Mrs. Shea noted there were three persons on the Planning
Com*iission irom District 13. Mr. Bergman said he knew it was a real problem
to change bo-andaries, but. he knerr it had been don�. He said that if the City.
�aan+..ed to talk ab�ut loyalt.y, uniformity, etc., he thought that was something
that ought to be addressed.
Chairperson Harris asked if it wasn't true �hat �overnment tended to build a
barrier- betv�een the semi-public and �rivate sectors of tha population, Air.
�� Boardman said definitely. h�o Harris asked hosa that could be overcome, and
Mr. Boardman said that first you had to find out Vahy those barriers were built.
Ae said th�y �aere usually deve7.oped because somebody was protecting inforr�ation
� :;.
Plar�ning Commission t�Reeting - August 189 197G
Fage 20
or not �anting inioxmation out because of cert�.in thin�s. He stated that that
develops clistrust' and distrus� is what builds th� walls. Another thing, he �
said, �as that inforr�ation was available to the public but people didn't know
ho�: to get it. He commented �hat it ��as published in the Sun, but not a11
areas received tha�L; so it was a matter of how they could get information to
the people. He said that according to the law, it was required -that information
be av�.ilable if somebody asked for it, but how did people lmow what to ask for?
Mr. Langenfeld said tha� aaas where D320 would come in.
Mrs. Gabel stated that, it was a mati;er of conditioning. She said that people
are afraid of government, and have been conditioned to expect that they.are
going to get nothing but a turn-oif or a lot o� red tape. Chairperson Harris
said that people don't trust government, ar?d the goverizment Iosters triat. he
cited the example of a friend of his who had an oak tree in his back yard that
started �ooking strange to him. His friend called the City Tree Inspector, who
said the tree had oak wilt and would have to come dowrz in ten days. The Inspec�or
then �ent around the neighborhood and tagged fifteen more trees, and his friendt.s
neighbors ��ere out to hang him. He said there has to be a change in government
so people would -tx�ust ito
TZr. Bergman said that he taould like to suggest that the impression he got
throughout the element af Goal Sta-tement D300 tvas there is a communication
problem; and the City �rill send out. leaflets and brochures �o everybody, 95�
of which will go into the garbage because if the�r don't have some particular
int�rest thEy are not going to look at it �r read it. He sugdested that some�hing
that bdould be a lot more effective and a lot less cost would be some public
rzlations adv?rtisingo He recom�rended an ad be put in the front page of the Sun �
saying "Hi there! We're your friendly Fridley City Hall Administrators eleci,ed
by you, and we encourage you to ca11 on any ques'cions of any nature and guarantee
yuu prompt, courteous responset0. I�Ir. Boardm2n said they tried to do that some-
what with the c�esign of their calendar, but he realized there taas a tremendous
public relations problem between City Government a.nd its citizens�
MOTION by Peterson, seconded by Shea9 that the Planning Comtnission agree in
grincipal with Goal Statements D200 and D300 and their Program Objeciives, and
table this item until the meeting of Sep�ember 22nd. Upon a voice vote, all
vo�ing aye, the motion carried unar�imously.
5, REVIEW OF P1�RKS & RECREATICN Cc�1�4�ISSION MINUTESt JULY 6, 12 AND 26THa 1976:
Chairpersori Harris sta-`�ed that rirs. Schnabel had several ques-tions9 and asked
Mrso Gabel if she had passed them on to her. Mrs. Gabel ans�rered that the only
thing Mrs. Schnabel had relatecl to her was the auestion on the soccer iield, and
Nlr. Peterson h�.d already answered tllat. She said that anything that �ras not in
the minutes she wasn�t aware of.
Chairperson Harris s�.id that in regaxd to the July 6th Special Meeting on the
budget, there was some question on some of the items. He �.sked �ahy the item
Locke Park footbridge was listed, but no dollar amount, Mr. Peterson explained
that was because tizey hadn't felt the prioril:y was hi�h enough to put any dollar
figure on it for this year. He said it had been included because the new recordi�
secretary had put everything in whether it had a dollar amount or not. TSr. :�
Harris questioned under Account 4510 (Buildings & Structures) the amount of
$3,500 for remode�ing part of the old library, and asked if that was detracting
�".
Plann�ng Commis��on Meetiin� xu�usti la, �y�� ra�e Ll
in any way from any ci�ty recrcation programd A1r. Peterson replied it dras, and
said th�y were arguing with city m�nagement ar�d tYze Cii;y Council that if they
� are going to charge $3,5ao for remodelin� hecause they were.maving the Parks
and kecreation Department9 then they sh.ould credit P& R�rith $3,500 because
�Y the Police Department was going to take over their �r�esent facility. He said
Parks and Recreation would be paying for space twice when management rras taking
space for their conveniPnce. Chairperson�Harris said he agreed �rith t:r. Peterson
and felt this w�as a capi�al expenditure in the City I-ialla He stated it shr�uld
either come out of the gen�ral fund or the city fund� but not out af Park� and
Recreation. 1�ro Boardrlan st;ated it should re�lly gc, under �apital improvements
� or City Hall improvements. Mr, Petcrson stated that because of this they
wouldn't be spending moriey for a tennis court or a footbrzdge or some other
item. He stated that any heZp they could ge� from anyone on this �aould be
greatly appreciated. i�Ir. Bergmart suggested ihat another argwn.ent Saould be
that rather than take the money from -�he Parks and Recreation budbet to just
leave them where they �*ere p-resently located, as �hey didn�t want to.move.
Mr. Boardrr�an said that it faas -to a certain degree of benefit to Parks and
Recreation because the acUninis-trative office does have trouble in that area.
Mr. Peterson said it �r�.s really for the betterrnent of .the �otal aclrninistration
that, they move, ra-ther ichan their bet�terment singularly.
�"\
�
Chairperson Harr9.s said that in a31 oi �hese items they were doing an improve-.
ment to warming houses and a.1.1 oi these things, an� to him that ahould be set
up on a capital improvemzxit ar.d not be detracted �'rom a recreational program.
Mr. Peterson said he had na ar��cnent with that, but this was the �aas it nad
been sPt up and this vras the i�ra,,y it was being charged. He sa'd that by t:�e
same ,okenb a11 of the re�.enu� Lhat came in fror� the beaches �n� conce�sions
weni: in�o ine GenEral i�evenu� F�nd, but was ch�ged aga�.nst �heir aecreat�c:na�
budget. He stated that took a�;ay from the p-rogra,�:, t��m AIr, Bergnan sa:�d i,hati
Mr. Harris' suggestion was sorne�hing Mr. Pet�rs�n cc�uld implement merelSr `�n the
laay hL orgax�iz..ed t•rhat �;as suhrnitted. iie eaplained triat at �,�ork l.e typic�lly
submitted a capital improbement budget ar:d separately from that an operating
budgeto Mr. Peterson said this was thezr capital budgeL' and they had a
recreational budget that they were still Urark�ng on which t�ras differen �! but
they felt that their capit.al improvement budget should be spent on tennis
courts or fishing docks-�but not for affice spacza
Mro Langenfeld brought up Item No. 3 on the first pa�e, Island of Peace9 w10,2�.0a
Mv�. Peterson explained there was an obli_�atior. that was coming due9 and i°
Isl�ds or Peace did not raise the mone�,� then the City was obligated to pay
it9 and it had been determined that it should coine out of tne Parks and necreation
capit�.l �udget. H� said they objected to that9 but it had•to be thers because
it taas a cont��nt liability due in 1977. He explained it was the principle
and in�teres� due on the mortgages P�1ro Peterson said �hat furthermore, if they
got further dotan the line, �hey �ere told tha�t North Park trould also t�e charged
into t•heir �udget because the City had a cantin�e�cy liability there9 too.
Mr. Lan�er.feld said �hat the Hayes I.ots wer� presently very hard on the Islands
of Peace :in t��:•rns of paying for interest, and so on. He said it �aas reallr
rou�h oii th, Founc�.ation and the fund" dr3ve so t.he,y can°t devote their monies
to irnr�roving their share of th� projPCt� when a11 of their money had to go on
interest p�.lrments and hopefull�r �n principle payments. He s aid that if �n�ugh
,� money et,ul�n�t be gener�ted to pa�• for the Hayes Lo�s, he didn't feel that the
i
��
�- �
i _ : ..,
Planning Commission Meeting - August 18, 197�
Pa.ge 22
Ci'�i,y would lose in any manner� shape or forrr� as far as going back on the proper��
because it had increased in value. He said the City could sell if if they �,
w�.ted �o� and it would not be a lasing si'cuationa
Mr. Peterson �tated there were t�wo thin�s they had to realize; first, the Hayes
lots would not fit i.nto the overall recreational plan of the Parks and Recreation
Department in terms of land acquisition as 1:hey did not need more property where
the Hayes Lots were. Secondly, there were some o-ther liabilities that would
prohibi�`i, the City from selling these lots ofi to a private developer without
having to pay off some oth�r monies to I+AWCOi1 �ld all of the oi;her people, so
there were considerable liabilities that �rere involvEd. He said the Ci-ty would
end up paying for those Hayes lots and j•aould have to put them into some type of
park plan even if they didn�t w�� to, so it ;�ras a drag on the Parks and Recreation
Department. A7r. iangenfeld sai�. he vaould like to indicate that they hoped to
agproach the City or the �ouncil in regard to �Lhis item latei• on, but by trie
same token he felt �their nex� approach to the S�tate Zeoislature was going to
be much more beneficial than it has been :in the past.
PZr. Bergman asked if it �ras Parks and Recrea�ion's intent tha� the capital
i.mprovement b�sdget be subject to modification basecl. or. input irom the neighbor-
hood �project committees. P�1re Peterson statec�. that if they got the information
from the neighborhood project corrmittees in time.to pu�: it into the 1977
budget they would modify according �;o thatF Otherti,�ise, he said, they �rould have
tc do it in 19789 and re�.l.istica.11y speal{ir.g they t��ere lookin� at the '78 budget
for the neigh�orhood project comrnit..tee's ir.put. P•ira Peterson said they told
the people that; when they carne to the meetin� on tl-ie 12ih. As an ex.ample, he
s�id, one lady told them they had put in a tennis court sahere they had �aan-�ed ^
a ball iield. He said he expla.ine� to her �hat the raany people �+ho came en massF
to Parks and Recreation wanted � tennis court, and they :�aeren't told an�rthing
about �. b211 field. He stated ic��a� this �ras the type of thing they hoped to
avoid after they had the people study kThat they tdere doing in their own neighborm
hoodse ,
Chairpersan Harris asked if the iigures for the ec�uipment e�ere ball park iigures
or pretty closea N1ra Peterson reglied the�s were supposed to be figures that
had been quoted to them. rsr. Harris commented triat some of the items seemed a
o bit higho Hs asked Mr. Peterson to expla.in what "Color-Kote11 meant. Mro Peterson
said that this referred to thetennis caurts,� and 'cnat every three years they
should be Color-Kotedm He eaplained it c•ras a, continuous maintenance type thing
which provided a proper plaving surface and increased the longevity oi the courts,
Chairperson Harris said he ti,rondered z•rhy on one court the cost was �1,500 and on
another $725, and asked if ten.nis courts weren't basically the sa.me size. rir.
Peterson answered that there might t�e two 'cennis courts included in one figure
or there might be a tenr�is court and a basketball court.
AZr. Langenfeld said he recalled now one of the questions that s,ras asked concerning
the budget was there was no overall total, and they had come up with $1l18,613.
Mr. Peterson said there should have been an overall total9 and there h�.d been one
when they left the meeting tih2t; nzghto He said it was a negotiated compromise
between the City Manager and the Commissior,e AIr. Peter.son explained the Parks
and Fecreation budge-t would �e s�me�.hing over �5U0,000, oi' which capital was ,�.,,
$11�8'000 to $1509000 approximatPly, The other $3�O,OQO would Ue for sal�ries
�
Plannirig Commission M�eting - Au�;us� 18, 1.976 Page 23
and programs� and a7-so ::.nterest payments for land acc�uisitions and things like
� that.
Chairperson Harris stated he �ras a bit coniused. Mr. Peterson said the thing
to realize was that FridSey did not ha�►e a capital improvement program9 and
this is �rhat was handicapping the Recreation Departr�en�s He said that at this
poa.nt in time they �rere seven years behind the mast�r plan that was developed
in I96�a He explained tYiey hdd only been able to do three years:�aork in ten
because they had to make do ou't of each year's budget a.nd it gEts-cut; and �aith
inflation the budget has not incxeaseithat m�ach in total. He further exp�ained
�.hat with inflation on the salaries they got l�ss ar�d less each year to.do the
capital improvement, °
Chairperson Harris asYed t�rhy �hey r�rere paying out so much interest fbr land
acquisition. Nr. Boardman a_�saered it vaas mai>n-ly because the City d�.d _not do . _
it on a bond-issue type thing. He explained they budget it over the tweni:y
or thirty yeax periodA and takE it out oi° Pach year's budget. He added that
they were probably still paying ior Locke Park and Commons, and he lrne�r they
iaere paying for Vorth Paxk, ��I-ro Petersor. stat�d that if Springbrook Nature
�'oundation should happen to def.ault, it cauld wipe out i.he Park and Recreation
Department for the contingent lia.bilities thz City hase He e�:plained that
the City had en�ered into an agreement and the City �ras the guarantor of tnat
purchase.
RZr. B�rgman ask,e��. Yi;.��r this capit;.zl improvement budge�, of $11�6,000 compaxed ta
the budget of las�t yea.r, and :�1re Peterson answered that it �ras up by only 5p.
� He s�.id he was going by memory, but he thought �hc: i:otal Pa-rks and Pecreatien
r' budget had only groUm by about 60,000 to 7�,000 dollars in the past five years.
Chairperson Harris asked if i,h��e had been any a�temp�� to se� up �riorities
in relation to capi�,al impreve,�ents versus a recreation budget or.a program
budget. N�r, Pe�erson replied that it was griariti.zed because for a certain
dollar of program there had to be a certain dollar of equipment to run it and
mai.ntain the parks and that ty-pe of thing, and that. is vrhat -they tried to do.
Mr. Langenfeld commenied th�.t when he talked to f�llow ci.tizens he heard the
comment about the "sky higi�" budget of Parks and Recreation. He said his
personal opinian was i� was terribly misleaciing wh�n a given figure comes out,
for instance �500,000, �rhen Parks and Recreation migh� take in $100,000 in
forms of revenue, He stated tha'� would at least r°educe that overall amount
and make that figure not look so e�:cessive. Mr. Peterson said that realistically
speaking they V1ere probably looking at some�hing bet=�aeen $20,000 to $25,000.
He sta-ted �that if Fridley's budget was compared tai��h cities of comperable
size, for il��e f�.ci1 ities that r ridley Yias and the progra�ns that it runs, Fridley
is zn tl-ae i.up three cities in the en�ire metropolitan area. T�r. Peterson said
that Pa:lcs and Recreation �aouid rather have a half mi�llion dollars and then
have the revenue add�d back into the budget so the,y could do some other things
they felt they should do. He said t�,at in a city this size, their budget was not
that lar�ge.
Mrs. Gabe]. stated she dian't fully unders-tand ho�r North Pa�k could affect the
� budget� and asked that it be ex7�lained. 1�Zr, Boardman said that the City
�� 9
Planning Commission Meeting - August 18, 197� Page 2�
purchased North Paxk through a T.AWCON applicai;ion� He said that out of $200,000 ^
$10�J�000 was pa.id by the Feder8l Governmen�i� $50�000 by state and $50,000 by =
the City. If for any reason tha�`i. property �•ras taken out of a d�signated
recreation tirea per Z���CON application, they would have to pay back �hat $100y000.
He explained that t3orth Park �ras designated. as a recreation area at the time it
�ras purchased under the LAWCON application, If a city garage, for instance,
was to be built in that area, then there �n�ruld be some monies that would have
to go back in, He stated they jusi got a�;1t,000 grant under LAWCON for
development of North Park a.s a PEa��sre Centerg and if that didn't develop as
� P�ai:ure C�nter therE was the possibility th�:�i t�ro�ld have to refund the
$279000. P•irs. Gabel asked if this would l-;��ve to come out oi' Parks and Recreation's
budget, and i�Sra Pet�rson said that at thss t;ime the Cit,y had no other place to
charge it. He said it was larad thai iaould corae under the Parks ar�d R�cre�.tion
aspect as far as the City Charter ��ras concerned; and it was a liability just
as they had for Islands oi'.Peace. Y�ir. Boardman said i� was a little different
situation because there was a t�:o-year peried that all action had to be taken
wi�hin on the Nature Center� and in 19f9 th��� would �ave to match the LA�dCON
grant.
Mr. Bergman asked if either I�7ro Boardman or P�r. Yeterson kne�•r how the City of
Fridley's Parks and Recreation Uudget dollar �ount corn�ared to other city's
Paxks and Recreation dollar amounts, and P7r. Peterson said Fridley �aas about
average. Mre, Boardman said that in some communities where they go on bonding
issues they don°� have the obligation di-rec�ly related to Pa.r�_s and Fecreation
where«s Fridle;� doeso He said tv�za� Fridley wa.s trying to provide was a
rerreation progr•am for less money than ti�e;� are ope� ating r�aith as their recreat�an
programs are probably Uetter fundec�e Mro PeLerson said trat Frid�ef haci a /�`�
pro�ram that was equal to or betterp wit�h less mone�T, than others t�ecause of
volunteers o He said peopl.: �aere T�ailling to dor.ate their tim� wherea� ot.rer
are�s were paying for it, and uhat was what was savin� the programs in �'ridleya
Chairperson Harris asked if they would receive a summary of the recrea�cion
budget, and P•Zr. Peterson said hopeiully the;� brould receive it this month, but
it ;�as still in the negotiation stage. t�xso Shea a�ked if they could get
an income along with that9 and I�ir. Peterson replied he would like to get that,
also.
Chairperson Harris thanked Mrp Peterson i'or all his answErs$ and said it had
been a very info�rnative discussion. Mr. Langenield said he only Uaished a lot
more people 1R�eu� -this .
ADJOURNMENT:
Ni0TI0N by Langenfeld, seconded by �ergman, t!:at the meeting be adjourned.
Upon a voice aot�, a11 voting a}•e, Chairperson Harris .ieclareci the Plrinning
Cammission meeting ot August 18, 1976 adjourned at 11:55 P.�`�. bY ��imous
vote.
;�1
Respect�lly submitted9
`,,� , > , �.;.� . p � ��,.
Sherri 0'Donnell, I� cordin� Secretary