PL 12/08/1976 - 30457r"'�
�
,
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMIGSIOPI MEETING - DECF�IBER 8, 1976
PAGE 1
�4LL T� 0 ORDER :
Chai�person Harris called the meeting to order at 7:32 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Others Present:
Harris, Bergman, Langenfeld, Schnabel, Shea
Peterson
Jerrold Boardman, City Planner
APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MIIdUTES: NOVEMBER 17, 1976
MOTION by Langenfeld, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission minutes
of November 1'j, 1976 be approved as written.
Mrs. Schnabel noted that she had been listed as present, when actually Mrs.
Gabel had attended that meeting.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, a11 voti.ng aye, the motion carried unanimously.
1. CONTINUID: PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING REQUEST, ZOA �76-06, BY GFARGE-
TOTi�N MOTE INC.: ezone from M-2 heavy in us ria axeas o C-
general business areas), that paxt of Lot 2', A.S. #78, lying Westerly
of the Westerly right-of-way line of Main Street N.E., lying Ea,sterly
of the Easterly railway right-of-way line of Burlington Northern, Inc.,
lying NortherZy of the Northerly right-of-way li.ne of 'Interstate High-
way #b91�, and lying Southerly oi a line drawn Westerly at a right angle
to the East line of said Lot 2, from a point on said East line distant
507.60 feet Southerly from the Northeast corner of said Lot 2, except
the �rJesterly 218.16 of the described property, subject to easement to
Northern States Power Company, the same being 5b00 Main Street 1V.E.
Public Hearing open.
r�ir. Robert H. Brokopp and Mr. Dave A. Oleson were present representing
Burlington 1Vorthern, Inc.; r1r. Ken C. IVielson was present representing
:--� Burlington Northern Land Development Corp.; and Mr. Carl George was present
representing Georgetown P�otel, Inc.
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 page 2 7 A
Mr. Boaxdman informed the Corrnnission that this was a continuation from the
last meeting, and they did have representatives present from Burlington
Northern and B� L at this meeti.ng to answer any questions they might h�ve.
Mr. Robert Brokopp of Burlington Northern stated that the Burlington Northern
Land Development Corporation had been formed two years ago to try to develop
property compatible with Burlington Northern. He sa.id they had properties
in some lacations that weren�t specifically industrial, and they felt that
they should possibly develop thos� as commercial. He expYained there were
tl�ree railroads combined which had large land owning interests in various
parts of the country� and there had to be some t�e to get all of these
properties managed correctly. Mr. Brokopp stated'they also had a third
division, Resources� which controlled the timber, oil lands, etc.; so they
actually had three real esta�e departments-�property management, &esources�
and Burlington Northern Land Development Corporationo
Mr. Brokopp said that in trying to do the best they could with their property
the situation arose along Main Street and b9t�. He explained they had
created the Northtown Yaxd, and it was thought that perhaps they should
consider putting a motel-type arrangement in to handle the crews from
Northtown. Mr. Brokopp stated that it never really got to the point where
they' could consider that as a project, but when they were in contact wi.th
Mr. George with regard to the crew handling facility he saw there would be
a need for a facility in the vicinity of East River Road and 691�. He said
^ the piece of property that seemed to be most advantageous was the site that
was in question--north of 691� and west of Main Street. He explained it was
zoned M-2, heavy i.ndustrial, and they always intended to develop it that way.
He said they had the property since 1965, and the reason it hadn't been
developed was they were not sure what the plans were for the Northtown Yard.
He explained it was for that reason they hadn't been able to develop the
property industrial, but they still planned to.
Mr. Brokopp stated that they had the Land Development Corporation to develop
the property because they didn�t lmow how it would work out; they wanted
the highest and best use for the property. He explained that wi.th the Gearge-
town Mo�el they could see where they could give up a little corner of the
property which wouldn�t lend itself as well to industrial as to the motel
operation. He added that they didn't feel the mo�el operation would be
i.a,compatible with the adjacent industrial they have planned for the rest of
the property, and urged that the zoning be changed in this unique situation
to accommodate the Georgetown Motel operation.
rirs. Schnabel asked if the property had always been zoned M-2, and Mr..
Brokopp replied that they had orRmed the property since 1965 and it had been
zoned M-2 then. N1rs. Schnabel asked if he could foresee in the future any
chance the railroad company itself would use that property for any other
operation or if they were looking for other companies to use that property
instead. Mr. Brokopp replied they had used it in connection with their
operation and were trying to make final plans for the property, which was
� rather difficult to do. He said they primarily would be interested in
getting other industry on the property. Mrs. Schnabel asked if then there
were no major plans for that property by -the railroad� and Mr. Brokopp said
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 3
;''� no, not at the present. He explained
' and they were only five years o1d as
easy ta formulate plans.
this was in the th��es of plarining
a combined company, and it wasn�t that
Mr. Langenfeld said that their main concern at the last meeting was the future
development of the properties North of the Georgetoum project� and the
Commission was hoping the railroad might have some indication as to what
they intended to do with the remaining portion and if they had any plans
for the portion immediately adjacent to the Georgetown Motel project. Mr.
Brokopp replied they had no immediate plans, but he would envision some-
thing similar to what was developed along East ftiver Road and 69lt in the
Southeast eorner.
Mr. David Oleson, also representing Burlington Northern, Inco, stated they
had brochures showing pictures of their property and giving information on
it. He sa3.d they �rere sent to respond to inquiries promoting the property
for industrial use� and passed out copies to the Commission. He explained
they promoted it for industrial use and it was their intention to continue
to do that. N�r. Oleson explained that the Georgetown plan was brought to
them by the Land Development Corporation, arid Burlington Northern was
basically acquiescent to that request by saying that this axea would not
deter from their efforts to locate industry--at least to the best of their
judgement at this time.
Mr. Bergman asked if it was the rai.lroad's intention that the land from
�'~` the proposed Georgetown paxcel all the way to 61st Street presently zoned
� M-2 be deneloped as M-2, and Mr. Oleson said that was correct. Mr. Bergman
said he was a bit concerned about the piece between the proposed George-
twon parcel and the tracks, and commented that the Commission had been a
little surprised that the rezoning request did not expand westerly to the
trackage. Mr. Oleson replied that one of the reasons might be that there
was always a need to preserve some area for trackage for new industrial
facilities� so certain clearance areas had to be maintained. Mr. Brokopp
stated tk�at another reason might be that for years the Highway Department
had been unhapgy with the underpass on 69l� under their tracks. He explained
that underpass had been built to accommodate Highway 100 and was not built
to freeway standards. Mr. Brokopp said the Highway Department had come to
tihem and said they would like to rebuild that bridge to highway standards,
and the railraod felt that they should provide a wide enough bridge to put
additional tracks across there. He explained the reason �as the trains were
increasingly longer with more cars on them, and in order to bring the �ains
in it may be necessary to put additional tracks along the East side of their
present tracks� and that would require additional right-of-way. He further
explained that the 218.16 feet of the parcel of land was predicated for
additional right-of-way if the bridge on 69l� got changed and a larger one
was built. He commented that he had no idea where that stood with the state.
Mrs. Shea asked if it hadn't been discussed at the last meeting that perhaps
Georgetown might like to pick up that property later. Mr. Brokopp replied
that the original plan for Georgeto�m was to have an exception of 100', but
`� their operating department didn't think that would be sufficient to allow the
�,
,�
Planning Commission Meeting - December $, 197b Page � 7 �
motel operation to expand. He stated they then discovered that property yrould
be needed for trackage� so he thought the width got expanded North and South
in order to arrange for this.
Mr. Carl George stated he hadn't known that property would bE used for
additional trackage for Burlington Northern, so he thought if it was criteria
for the rezoni.ng he would offer to pick it up.
Mrs. Shea asked if the Georgetown Motel couldn't go back, if they would ask
for more property on the side to expand. Mr. George replied that they felt
within a two-year period there would be a need to expand� so then they would
have to go to the side or to another location. Mr. Brokopp added that it
depended on the State Highway Department and what they would do, and their
plans for the longer tr�ins� etc. He explained they were taking this as
they went so it wasn't easy to answer questions like that.
Chai.rperson Harris asked if the remainder of the land behind the proposed
Georgetown Motel deyelopment would be similar to the type of operation
described in the brochure Mr. Oleson had passed out. Mr. Oleson replied
hopefully, yes� but it was difficult to see what type of proposals would
come to them. Mr. Harris said that he was a bit confused at this point as
they had seen a brochure at the last Public Hearing put out by B N L that
described the use for the remaining property as something else. Mr.
Brokopp agreed that wouid get confusing� and expla:ined that his company
�'` forr�d the other company to handle the many, many properties they had that
.' ' couldn't be categorized as either industrial or operative. He said that
while it may seem strange to the Commission that they were both advertising
for this property, it was really for the good of the company.
Chairperson Harris stated he understood that� but Burlington Northern was
advertising it for one thi�g and B N L was advertisi.ng it for something else.
He said h3s question was� "what are you trying to sell it for?" He read to
the Commission the site data brochure by B K L Development Corporation
which stated the property could be used for office buildings, multi-fami.ly,
warehousing� industrial potential, etc. Mr. Harris sai.d they had two
different stories from B N L and Burlingtan Northern.
Mr. Brokopp stated that the primary concern was for establishing industry
along their lines of growth. He stated that the Land Development Corporatian
was formed to handle some of the lands that weren't perhaps compatible for
either industrial or for operative. M.�. Brokopp explaaned that they did
get into a cross over on this particular property because there were some
areas like this Georgetown site that could be used better�for the motel
operation than for the industrial operation. He said they had finally deter-
mined that the Georgetown site was better for a motel and they were willing
to go that route, and t_ne rest they felt should be developed industrial. He
added that they felt that anything a1�ng rails should not go any other way
unZess some circumstances dictated otherwise. He said, however, they did have
to thi.nk of what was economically best and if it was found that perhaps an
� apartment complex would be financially beneficial� they would be back before
the City asking for that. However, he said, at the moment their primary
i^
,�
Planning Commission rleeting - December 8� 19?6 Page 5
concern was for industrial development of that property.
Chairperson Harris said they understood that, but the railroad should under-
stand the Gity�s position. He stated if the City �ras to operate under those
circumstances �ust described, they would get into a mishmash of zoning that
would borderline spot rezoning. He said that from his standpoint he agreed
with the Georgeto�rn concept along the hightiaay and the industrial back� but
a strip of commercial, a strip of multi-family� a strip of industrial and
then another strip of corrunercial was not good planning. He said he saw
nothing but headaches as far as traffic patterns, utilities, and getting
along with the adjoining residents..
P+�'. Boardman pointed out it was the City�s prerogative to turn down any future
requests for re�oning if it did not follow what they felt was a normal
process. Chairperson Harris said that was correct, but he felt these things
should be stated at the onset of the development.
Mr. Brokopp stated this was a desirable property for industrial development�
and the only reason they hadn�t developed Maan Street property was because
they T�rere waiting to see how the Northtown yard turned out. He said they had
discussed how a motel would be campatible rdith industrial property, and had
noted that the property itself wasn�t too visabie from the interstate. He
explained that Holiday Village shielded most of it, and people were too
intEnt on driving through the underpass to pay much attention to it. He
stated that if the motel was located there and people had the chance to
swing into the motel� there would be a lot of people that would be influential
in the industrial development of the area. He added that once they got
into the area there could be more development, and one development could lend
itself to another development. N1r. Brokopp added that they looked at it i.n
the vein that the motel would add to the development of the industrial
property, and if industries did get in there the salesmen would possibly be
having their meetings at the motel, etc. He saa.d that normally they wouldn�t
ask for rezoning awa,y from industrial, but they were tryi.ng to be as honest
and forthright as possible.
Mr. Ken Nielson. of Burlington Rlorthern Land Development Corporation stated that
what the Commission had heaxd so far was the Burlington RTOrthern�s viewpoint
of �rhat the property was to be used for. Ae stated the eote was not in on
what the remainder of the property would be utilized for. Mr. Nielson said
that surely the Commission could understand that Burlington 1Vorthernts Industrial
Development wanted to protect everything along the rails, and he thought that
was understandable from the standpoint it was getting harder and harder to
locate good property �rithin a respectable proximity of the metropolitan axea
on which to locate industry. He stated that he thought their industrial
development in Fridley so far had been of good quality; but from a corporate
standpoint, looking at all the facets of the problem, they felt it also had
potential for use as commercial, office, warehousing, multi-family, etc. He
stated that based on their ability to come forth with a proposal and submit
it to the Board of Directors, this property could be available to B N. L Devel-
opment for other uses besides industrial.
7D
Planning Commission Meeting -.December S, 1976 Page 6 � E
n,
i hir. Nielson stated that he didn't think that any of the representatives present
would suggest that they intermingle land uses along Main Street such as having
commercial, industrial. and sticking in a few multi-family units. He said
they thought it was an area that was sensitive and had a number of uses. He
stated that on their property between 61st and 69l� they had multi-family,
single-family and commercial a11 within that area; and he thought the key
ingredient was how these land uses interfaced. Mr. Nielson stated he didn�t
think that what they were proposing as far as the motel was spot zoning�
and B N L looked at this as the first step in obtaining the highest and
best use of the property. He explained that B N L was in competition with
Burlington Northern's Industrial Deeelopment Department in finding a use
for the prop�rty and finding a developer.
Chairperson Harris asked if Mr. Nielson felt that all of the potential uses
he had listed i.n the brochure were compatible zoning for the area, and Mr.
Nielson replied there was no firm development for the land. He stated the
data sheets were just trying to generate interest� and they didn't like to
come in and go with a piecemeal development step by stepe Mr, IJielson said
that the problem was here the Industrial Development Department didn}t like
to paxt with industrial.land i:n locations such as this because it was of
prime concern to them, and they were reluctant to give B N L more than they
needed in an initial first step. He stated they. would be making a cohesive
effort to have a logica7. and harmonious usage along Main Street.
n Mr. Langenfeld said that as far as a business standpoint was concerned and
in reference to the two brochures (one light industrial and one general
business type zoning), he got the impression that whichever one sold would
be the one to go, and then they would be back before the Planning Commission
asking for the necessar�� zoning at that time. Mr. Brokopp sa.id it was
al.ready zoned for industrial development, so they wouldn't have to come
back before the Planni.ng Commission if it went industrial. He said it would
be just in the event they weren't able to locate industry there and B!�• L
was able to locate some commercial development.
Mr. Boardman asked if proposals by B N. L had to be reviewed by Burlington
Northern bef'ore they would lease that property, and Mr. Brokopp replied yes,
Burlington Northern would have the first directive as to what the property
would be used for.
Chairperson Harris asked if they were selli.ng any portion of this particulax
tract. Mr. Brokopp replied they didn't like to sell it, they preferred to lease�
but the way financing was th.ese days they had to sell. He explained it was
difficult for them to get a financer for a term lease. Mr. Harris asked how
the road situation and utilities would be handled in the event they did not
sell, but leased the rest of the property. N[r. Brokopp said that was what
they were trying to come up with now, but it was difficult to plan because
they were not sure about the bridge over 69l� and all the other things involved.
He stated they had been trying to get the plat completed that was agreed
upon at the time of the Northtown yard initial construction. He added they
,� had been trying to get the thing platted, but the City asked questions about
zahat they were going to do with the property behind what they wanted to plat
and the railraod couldn't answer that yet.
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 page 7 7 F
�-;
� Cha.i.rperson Harris asked how the utilities and the internal roadway system
for the motel would be handled if the City looked favorably on the rezon�ng
for Georgetown. Mr. George answered that they had two entries off of Main
Street. He s aid they lmew where the sewer was and had gone over this with
Mr. Clark's office, a.nd had been over the power set up with the power compzny
as far as transformers and would haae total electric heat3ng. Mr. George
sa.id that with the proper engineeri.ng and inspection they could put the
sewer in themselves--building those lines and maintaining them, ari they would
belong to the City. He said they would be in the public right-of-way. Mr.
Harris asked about going back into the property itself, and Mr. George replied
they would build those lines themselves and maintain them. He sa3.d they
intended to run the sewer line into the right�of-way and along the West
side of Main 5treet to the buildings themselves, and then go from there
back in�to the property with the sewer system they would need to give the
sewage system to all the buildings. He said it would be the same thing with
the water s�stem. N1r. George added they were a11 set with the power company,
and the electrical system was all engineered. He stated the only thing they
might use gas for was the laundry system, but they could also go electrical.
He said the rest would be a11 electrical.
Chairperson Harris asked about the road system in this particular parcel in
the event that they found some other users and leased the land to them.
Mr. Oleson said that most of their inquiries started around five acres plus,
so it was very feasible it could go for one project on one five acre parcel.
^ Mr. Brokopp stated they would come up with a plan, but it depended on what
', came along. He stated they weren�t going to do anything that would get
haphazard� but would get with Mr. Boardman and work out a plan that would
be acceptable.
Mr. Langenfeld asked what the minimum term for a lease agreement was, and
Mr. Brokopp replied that generally they were cancellable on thirty days notice.
He added that the term could be from five years to fifteen or twenty. N1r.
Langenfeld asked if there were any kind of clauses in the agreements which
would give them the right to suddenly decide that �they needed the property
for their own uses. Mr. Brokopp said that there were times when they did
need the property--it didn't happen very often, but it could.
Mr. Bergman stated that he felt a little concerned that this process was a
bit different from the norm in that it seemed Mr. George had a plan to build
a paxticular facility on a piece of property, and this requires a rezoning
in order for him to do so� rather than a rezoning coming prior to a specific
building plan. He stated they were talking about a property owner�s request
to rezone the property, and was wondering what elements were yet incomplete
prior to the actuality of the construction of the motel. Mr. George stated
that it had been worked out so the property could be transferred to B N L
who could give a long-term lease which they needed for financing. He said
all the items had been worked out for long-term leasing, and it would be
about a 25-year lease. He added it had been agreed upon between the Lega1
Department of B N L and Burli.ngton Northern's attorney, and the investors
'`�, were a11 set, so there was nothing that was left to chance. Mr. George
stated the feasibility studies had been run and the site plan had been made.
��
�
��
,�
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 8
Mr. George stated that in a lot of situations the rezoning request would be
made prior to all of this expense� but they felt they couldn't do that on
this one. He said they felt everything had to be worked out prior to them
coming before the Planni.ng Commission and asking for the rezoning.
IMr. Bergman asked if he was saying they had a long-term lease signed by
both parties and a financing document signed subject to rezoning approva,7:.
Mr. George replied that was correct; the documents �rere made and approved
and were just subject to rezoning.
MOTION by Shea, seconded by Langer�feld' that -the Planning Commission close
the Public Hearing on Rezon�ng Request ZOA #76-06 by Georgetwon Motel� In�.
Upon a voice vote, all votirr� aye� Chairperson Harris declared the Public
Hearing closed at 8:35 P.M.
Mrs. Schnabel sai.d that since she wasn't at the last meeting her lmowledge
of what preceded was basicallyr what came through the minutes, and she was
a little up in the air as to what precisely the�r wished to do this evening.
She said she assumed they wanted to act on the request for rezoning� but
beyond that in terms of the rest of the property, she was V�ondering if the
Commission felt they wanted to take some other action. Chairperson Harris
said he didn't lrnow if they could really do axiiything about the rest of
the groperty, but they had wanted to talk to representatives from B11 L and
Burlington Northern to get their thQUghts. Mr. Langenfeld commented that
they had wanted to see if there was some comprehensive plan so they would
at lease have a general idea of what was going to happen.
Mrs. Schnabel said it appeared that their intent was that they always
intended it to be zoned heavy industrial. and they still do. She added
she thought it would be difficult for the Commission to make a recommendation
or do anything other than act on the request that was before them tonight•.
Chairperson Harris saa.d that was correct.
Mr. Langenfeld said he wanted to thank the people from Burlington Northern
for coming in� and he could see that they did have a plan to establish a
trend when they started the Georgetown praject. He said he wished to make
one correction, and noted that it had bee<� indicated in this evening's
discnssion that salesmen might be having meetings at the proposed motel
when Mr. George had indicated at the previous meeting that there wouldn't
be any meeting rooms or convention rooms.
MO TION by Langenfeld, seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Comrnission
recoirmiend to City Council approval of Rezoning Request, ZOA #76-06, by
Georgetown Motel, Inc.: Reaone from Pq-2 (heavy industrial axeas) to C-2
(general business areas), that part of Lot 2, A.S. #78, lying Westerly of
the Westerly right-of-way line of Main Street N.E., lying Easterly of the
Easterly railway right-of-way line of Burlington Northern, Inc., lying
Northerly of the Northerly right-of-way line of Interstate Highway #69l�,
and lying Southerly of a line drawn Westerly at a right angle to the East
line of said Lot 2, from a poi.nt on said Ea.st line distant 507.60 feet
Southerly from the Northeast corner of said Lot 2, except the Westerly
218.16 of the described property, subject to easement to Northern States
Power Company, the same being 5600 Main Street N.E.
7G
;
�"�
7H
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 9 _ —
Chairperson Harris said he wished to make a statement at this point. He
said he hoped that before any further advertisements were sent out on
Burlington Northern land and before a sign was put up advertising the
property� that they could stop in and take a look at the comprehensive
plan and get a feeling of the City as to the direction the City would li�Ce
to head on that particuiax paxcel. He said he spoke to the pa.rticular
flyer which a�.luded to the site along East River ftoad and the proposed
development which stated "suitable for strip commercial, office business,
restaurant and multi-family use." Mr. Harris commented that he did not feel
that all of those proposed uses were really compatible with the area. He
said he felt that before a sign was put up some of the rail�oad representa-
tives.should stop in for a i;hat with City Administration and get a consensus
of opinion.
. M�rs. Schnabel said that she was a bit concerned about the traffic patterns.
She noted that as this area developed the City should address the traffic
flow problem as well as working with the owners of the property. She stated
. she was specifically concerned that they avoid the type of situation they
had on East River Road now where property was sold or rented to a couple of
commercial ventures, and they had a real.traffic hazaxd. Nirs. Schnabel saa.d
she could see the same thing happening in this area because it was fairly
landlocked by residential. areas and she would very much like to see the City
address this problem as well as the property owners, and the time to do this
was now--before it was too far developed. Chairperson Harris stated they
�'"� had discussed the traffic patterns at some length at the previous meeting,
including how the people would get there, from what direction they would
come, the type of clientele� etc. Mrs. Schnabel said she understood that
but was not concerned with just the traffic generated from the motel 'but raas
talking about the entire area as it started to develop. She pointed out �
that r�ght now there were only two funnels of traffic out to University
Avenue' and suggested an alternative plan be made or another access to the
area. Mr. Harris pointed out that no one knew what was going to happen--
not Burlington Northern, B N L or the City. He sa.id it could be one large
development or five developments of one acre apiece� so they didn�t know how
much traffic would be generated. Mrs. Schnabel said she a.greed, but they
had the same problem before and now they had a serious traffic problem as
a result of it.
Mr. Bergman said he wished to comment that it had been gratifying to listen
to the representatives from Burlington explain that they had been doing a
lot of thinking and planni.ng the best they could, and they were concerned about
it. He stated he felt they had a good exchange and he appreciated their
thoughts and statements.
Mr. Brokopp said he would like to say one more thing concerni.ng the develop-
ment of streets. He said that was somewhat of a problem because the minute
they planned the street and layed it out, then they found somebady came along
and wanted that street area. He explained that in the plat for the industrial
center where Wickes and those people �rere, they created street areas but
� they didn't dedicate street areas. He said they gave the streets outlot
numbers for each projected street axea� and when Plywood Mi.nnesota went in
that was immediately dedicated to the City for street purposes. Mr. Brokopp
stated that the next year the road that went from the entry of the development
Planning Commission r�eeting - December 8, 1976 Page 10 � I
/'�
� to FI�IC and around the pump house was dedicated to the C3.ty. He further explained
that la.st year when Sylvania went in they dedicated that street, so now if
someone came in and wanted the entire remainder of that property where there
were streets projected but not dedicated they could lump all the autlots
together arid have one big piece that was served by roadways. P4r. Brokopp
sai.d that was sort of what they were envi.sioning here; they �rere trying to
develop a plan that would set up the same type of thing. He added they had
agreed with the City there would b� an entry at 57th.
Mr. Langenfeld stated that if they came up with a development plan� the City
would certainly like to see it. Mr. Brokopp stated that he had talked w3th
Mr. Sobeich and they were t�ying to get sometY�ing to him.
`
UPON A VOICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
2. PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING REQUEST ZOA #76-07 BY ROBERT A. SCHROER;
Rezone Lots ,� 7 and , Block 2, East Ranch Estates Second Addition�
irom M-2 (heavy industrial axeas) to M-1 (light industrial areas)�
located between 77th Avenue and 79th Avenue N.E. on the Ea.st side of
Rancher�s Road N.E.
Mr. Robert Schroer� Mr. Jerry Paschke� and Mr. Ji.m Benson, representi,ng
Mr. Paschke, were present.
�� �
� MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission
open the Public Hearing on Rezoning Request ZOA #76-07 by Robert A. Schroer.
Upon a voic� vote, a11 voting aye, Chairperson Harris declaxed the Public
Hearing open at 8:53. . .
Mr. Boardman showed the Corrunission a plat plan for the buildings that axe
being developed in the Onaway Area. He pointed out the four lots that
were in question and expla3.ned they were presently zoned M-2 but Mr. Schroer
wished tk�em to be zoned M-l. He explained the rest of the property was
presently zoned C-2.
Mr. Schroer explained that one reason they wanted to change to M-1 was
because they had a gotential buyer for four parcels of property. He said
there was a more limited building construction in a M-1 than a M-2� so he
didn�t think it would hinder the area. He said he had the builder and the
real estate man with him to help answer any questions.
Mr. Boardman said he thought there had previously been some concern as to
what �rould happen in this area as fax as road. layouts, etc. He said the
City did have road easement in this area for development of these commercial
properties. He s�aid he had talked to Mr. Schroer a few days ago as to how
that would best be developed, and he had suggestecl a cul-de-sac to serve the
interior properties. Mr. Boa,rdrnan said that at that time he felt that maybe
the best way would be to keep this as a commercial-type development with that
,..1 type of a service road i.n there. He explained that if they put in a cul-de-sac
off of Rancher�s Road, it would pretty much eliminate any practical commercial
use other than maybe an office facility, and also might predicate a rezoning
7J
��
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 11
request to an industrial-type development.
Mr. Schroer explained that when the plat was layed out in �70 or �71 there
was an error (he pointed it out on the plat), and it had been discussed by
himself� r1r. Boardmari and Mr. Sobeich. He explained that because of that
error they were thinki.ng about the cul-de-sac, and the cul-de-sac could serve
the same purpose as the service road, but he wasn't opposed to either way.
Mr. Bergman asked if lots 1 through S were a11 presently undeveloped� and Mr.
Schroer said that Uras correct.
Mr. Boardman said there was also the possibility of expans�.on by Datsun.
He added that he thought at this ti.me, and depending on the type of layout
that went in there, he would prefer to see it remain commercial rather than
see any o� it go to industrial. He said that the difference between heavy
industra.�1. (M-2) and light industrial (M-1) was that the M-2 properties were
required on an acre and a half and tend to go to an ownership-type operation.
He said that the requirements on M-1 properties were half what they were on
M-2, and they tended to be smaller buildings. He said they also attracted
grow:ing operations that needed a place to go io for awhile until they out-
grew it. Mr. Boaxdman said they would prefer it to stay M-2 to get the type
of industry that was developing across the street.
Mr. Bergman asked about the allowable uses on M-2 and M-1, and A7r. Boaxdman
� replied the uses were quite similar. He said that some uses in M-2 were
not a7.lowed in M-l� such as very heavy manufacturing. Mr. Schroer said
that M-2 did allow outdoor storage and r1-1 did not, and Mr. Boaxdman
commented that on M-2 you could not have outside storage without screening.
Nlr. Jim Benson of Thorpe Brothers stated he was representing Mr. Paschke�
and informed the Co�nission that Mr. Paschke had built ten buildings in
the Onaway Area and only one was a lease building. He stated that all the
buildings were well-kept and Mr. Paschke had brought in people who were
long-term businesses and good busi.ness enterprises. He said that out of
a11 the buildings that Mr. Paschke had built there was only one that had
any blight around it, and there the owner should be given stricter control.
Mr. Benson stated that the people that were attracted to this area were
small, growing companies, and the m�.rket was for small buildings. He said
the �irst two proposed buildings would be 12,325 sq. feet each, and Mr.
Paschke was developing to a 35% density instead of the !�0% allowed by code.
Mr. Benson said that Mr. Paschke had changed the look of his buildings to
almost commercial-looking, and thEy would not look like industrial factories.
He showed photographs to the Commission, and summed up by saying that this
was an opportunity for Mr. Paschke to Meet a11 the codes, ask for no
variances, and develop Mr. Schroer�s land.
Mr. Bergman asked what the actual reason was for the rezoning request. He
asked if it wasn�t true that anything Mr. Schroer could build in a. M-1 could
„� also be built in a M-2. Mr. Boardr�an replied that the rezoning request was
'"� because the type of buildings hlr. Paschke wanted to build he wanted to split.
Mr. Boardman explained he wanted to have separate ownerships on the buildings,
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 12 7�
^ and in order to reduce the lot area to three quarters of an acre it was
�° necessary to zone it down to M-l. Mr. B�rgman commented that then he warited
the flexibility of being able to put in a lower square footage tenant and
get better density than he could if it remained M-2. Mr. Boardman said that
was correct, as for P�i-2 they would have to have an acre and a half per owner-
ship. Mr. Benson commented that there weren�t any 2l�,000 squaxe foot
buildings in the whole area, and the market was in the 10 - 12,000 square
foot range. He added that he thought if it was leit as M-2 Mr. Paschke
would have to pass and look ior another area as he would not go out and
build a 24,000 square foot building on pure.speculation.
A1r. Bergman saa.d that �ri.th an i,ndustrial building, frsquently the building
got built to a laxge size with flexibility to subdivide the buil3ing to
bring in customers of small�r sizes.. Mr. Benson asked if he was eluding
to the 1�0,000 square foot building wi.th ten bays of l�,000 square feet each.
He saa.d that contractors used to buiid small buildings, but in about 1969
small buildings became uneconomical to build so contractors staxted building
what they called multi-tenant buildings. Mr. Benson said that people have
been leasing these buildings since 1969 and now they are tired of having
ten companies in one building, they see the rent being poured down the drain
and no equity built up, and they have not been able to take advantage of
depreciation so they were comi.ng out of these buildings. He stated that
these people were now looking for sma11 buildings as they had no control
over the parking lot in the multi-tenant buildings or the lawn being mowed,
and they wanted pride of ownership and their own name over the front door.
^.
� Mrs. Schnabel commented that in M-1 and M-2 raw materials could be stored
outside the building if they were totally screened. She asked Mr. Schroer
if the intent of the rezoning request was to sell the entire strip of land.
or to lease it, and he replied that Mr. Paschke had options on the entire
parcel o.� properties.
1�'• Boardman stated that one thing that should be considered somewhat on
this was the layout of the entire section, and what would be the best way
to develop this as fax as road patterns in the area. Mrs. Schnabel saa.d.
that brought up another question. She said that if they were considering
going off of Rancher's Road and cul-de-sacing, was that plan predicated on
the sale of this? She asked if they were going to dedicate land for doing
this before they sold the existing propsrties they had now. Mr. Schroer
answered that it would be dedicated before they sold.
Mr. Boardman said that a lot of this may depend on if Datsun wanted that
back property, because if Datsun wanted that property there would be no
reason for putting a cul-de-sac in that particular area. Mrs. Schnabel
asked if that was done and the property had to be reduced, if they would
still be within the 3/1� size for an M-1 zone. Mr. Schroer said he believed
so, and Mr. Boardman commented that they would have to be.
Mr. Bergman stated that the street pattern had been discussed at a previous
Planning Comini.ssion meeting, and asked if they hadn�t gotten involved in
� a dedication at that time. Mr. Boardman pointed out on the plat the 50' and
30' that had been dedicated, and Mr. Bergman co:nmented that he thought they
Planning Commi.ssion Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 13 7 L
/'1
�� had covered this subject once as far as their thoughts toward street patternsR
Mr. Boardman wondered if this was what they wanted or if a cul-de-sac pattern
�ould be more feasible. Mr. Schroer stated that he thought it would depend
on what went in there, and Mr. Bergrzan agreed that might be the qualifying
factor. Mr. Schroer said that they had discussed the cul-de-sac, and Mr.
Paschke was not opposed to it.
Nis'. Boardman sa3d he thought he �rould like to see a more substantial cornrner-
cial develQpment� rather than a strip right up the line Taith frontage on
University; and maybe a s�condary commercial development within that area.
He stated he felt that would be more in keeping with the total comprehensive
plan.
A7rs. Schnabel said that she didn't lrnow if Mr. Paschke was planning to make
any of the parking areas joi.nt parking lots, assuming he bought the entire
strip. She stated that certa.inly a street going through there would have
some affect on his plans� a1so. Mr. Paschke said he had no plans for joint
parking, as he didn�t think they would need it.
MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission
close the Public Heaxing on Rezbning Request ZOA #76-07 by ftobert A. Schroer.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Public
Hearing closed at 9:25.
,� Mr. Langenfeld noted that no fee was listed on the rezoning request, and Mr.
! Boaxdman said there was a$155 fee� which had been paid.
Mr. Bergman stated he had the impression that the property owner appaxently
had planning substantiation for the rezoning request and he felt no quarrsl
between a transition from N�2 to M-1 to C-2S.
MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission
recommend to City Council approval of Rezoning Request ZOA #76-07 by Robert
A. Schroer: Rezone Lots 5, 6, 7 and 8, Block 2, Ea.st Ranch Estates Second
Addition� from M-2 (heavy industrial areas) to A�1-1 (light industrial areas)�
located between 77th Avenue and 79th Avenue N.E. on the East side of
Rancher's Road N.E.
Mrs. Schnabel noted that Mr. Boaxdman had stated earlier that he tended to
feel this shoul.d remain M-2 zoning, and asked if other than the concern for
the nature of the ownership if there were any other concerns. Mr. Boardman
replied that generally smaller buildings were built in a M-2 zone with the
idea of possible room for expansion. He said that with M-1 there usually
wasn�t room for expansion, so if their business expanded there usually started
to be outside storage and parking lots started to be used for storing materials,
etc. He said that this was generally the type of situation they saw in the
Onaway Area.
r�rs. Schnabel asked if the City had given any thought to an overall.plan
� for that one strip of lots five through 8 in terms of its compatibility with
� the property across Rancher's Road to the West. Mr. Boardman said he thought
it was compatible use; M-1 and M-2 usually did get along as fax as uses of
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 197b page 11.� 7�
�
� property went. He said he thought he would prefer that where they did have
an opportunity ta develop on a laxger parcel of property where�there was a
possibility for expansion on that property, that they go to that type of
development. He stated he didn't have any quarrel with the design of
Mr. Paschke�s buildings; he thought rir. Paschke did a good job and in most
cases his tenants were good tenants. Mr. Boardman said anot_ier thing about
this was there was no room on these properties for outside material screening.
He said the property was pretty much taken up by the building and the paxking
lot, and when ma.terials sta.rted moving.outside there was just no room for
screening. '
Mrs. Schnabel asked if it �;as just coincidence that one section appearec� to
be quite well developed and.the other portion didn+t seem to have very much.
Mr. Boardman explained this was bec�ause of soil conditions. Mrs. Schnabel
said she was ju�t curious because obviously there hadn�t been a problem
developing w3th M-2.
Mr. Bergman stated that he was feeling just a bit uncomfortable with some
of this discussion. He said he was not sure he could accept that a change
i.n zoning from M-2 to M-1 would result in a11 the differences that had been
described. Mr. Langenield stated he could see what Mr. Bergman was getting
at. He said that they were sayi.ng in an M-1 there wasn�t room for expansion,
so now they were going to go to a smaller type structure with room to expand,
but eventually that structure would expand and reach the same category as
/� the M-1. Mr. Bergman said he was confused by Mr. I,angenfeld� comment, and
�, Chairperson Harris said he understood what Mr. Zangenfeld was driving at but
it got confusiTrg because sometimes they were saying M-1 when they meant M-2,
and vice-versa. Mr. Harris explained that if a given company was to move
into a building of 12,000 square feet and they expanded to their. maximum �
limit of �1t�000 square feet, at some point in time all of a sudden 21�,000
square feet would no longer be large enough for them and you were right back
where you staxted. Mr. Boardman commented that there �rould be rooni for
outside storage inst�ad of just parking and buildi.ng.
Mr. Bergman stated that the key distinction he gathered between the two
zoning categories was the property owners and developer�s industrial market
input concluding there is a maxket for industrial buyers for ownership of
a li.mited-size building, and they want to be able to get within that limited
size.
Chairperson Haxris said that it was much easier to sell or lease a 12,000
square foot building than a 21�,000 square foot building. He stated that the
problem that had arisen in the area with the acre and a half lots was that
the people who had built there were not efficiently using their land; if
some of those companies were to expand they would have a great deal of .
difficulty as there was no place ior them to go. He stated that two things
entered in: land costs and land preparation costs. Mr. Harris said that
if the land was purchased when Mr. Schroer could afford to be more reasonable,
then the buyer could afford to put a smaller building on that many square
/"� feet of land. He added that those paxticular sites that axe built on now
are on pretty reasonably solid ground, so consequently a builder could afford
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 15 %��
�
� to go w�.th a smaller building.. r7r. Harris said that on the East side of
Rancher�s Road the soil condition was such that land preparation was going
to be expensive and also because land costs were higher. �
Mr. Langenfeld asked if there was any problem with drainage, easements, etc.�
and Mr. Boaxdman replied there was no problem.
U�N A VOICE VOTE, Bergman, Langenfeld, Schnabel and Shea voting aye and
Harris abstaining, the motion carried.
Cha3rperson Harris stated his reason for abstaining was because he was a
property owner within the 3.r�ea and would be. affected by this.
3. LUT SPLIT REQUEST: L.S. #76-11 BY ROBERT A. SCHROER: Split off the
Souther y 1 0 feet of Lot , Block 2� East Ranch Estates 2nd Addition�
to make two building sites, the same being 7875 and 7895 Rancher's Road N.E.
Mr. Robert Schroer, Mr. Jerry Paschke, and Mr. Jim Benson were present.
Mr. Boaxdman showed the properties referred to in the lot split to the
Commission and stated the lot split would predicate two ownerships for the
development of the building. He explained the lot split i�ould be at the
line that would go right between the buildings, so there would be a back
n to back wall ("0" lot line). He said he had originally suggested that the
r entire thing be shifted 15�, but by doing that it would make the lot size
smaller than the 3/4 acre. He added that this would be consistent with
M-1 zoning, and each one was somewhat over 3/1� acre. Mr. Boardman stated
that the square footage needed was 32,670� and there was 3l�,655 actual, so
i� was in accordance with what was required. He added that he would still
like to see this shifted somewhat to pick up more green around, but it
would meet the zoning code the way it was set up. There followed some
discussion on various ways to shift this to get more green area, but Mr.
Paschke pointed out that the way it was there would be room for more parking
if it was required� but if it �ras shifted there wouldn�t be. He said that
the way it sat they could come within 5� of the property li.ne, and Mr. Board-
man sai.d he $greed with the points taken.
Chaa.rperson Haxris asked how the�r were going to get the utilities in, and
Mr. Schroer replied that the utilities were in.
Mrs. Schnabel said she would like to imow if the entire lot 8 was going
to be sold to one party or if just the Northerly hal.f was going to be sold
at this time and the Southerly half not sold if this 1ot split was approved.
Mr. Paschke saa.d that he would buy the entire lot 8 and develop the build-
ing, and he may have two owners or possibly one. r1rs. Schnabel said her
concern was building on the ��0" lot line and the problems that might arise
�rith that if he was not going to buy the whole lot 8 at once.
���
�
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976
Page lb 7 0
MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission
recommend to City Council approval of Lot Split Request L.S. #76-11 by
Robert A. Schroer: Split off the Southerly 160 feet of Zot 8, Block 2,
East Ranch Estates 2nd Addition, to make two buildi.ng sites, the same
being 7875 and 7895 Rancher's Road N.E. Upon a voice vote, Bergman�
Langenfeld, Schnabel and Shea voting aye and Haxris abstaining, the motion
carried.
Chai.rperson Harris stated his reason for abstaining was because he was a
property owner withi.n the area and would be affected by this.
Chairperson Harris declaxed a recess at 9:55 P.M. and reconvened the meeting
at 10: 15 P.M.
tt. VACATIOIV REQUEST: SAV#76-07, CITY 0�' FRIDLL'Y: Vacate existing un-
needed roadway easement in consideration for additional roadway ease-
ments being acquired, located on Lot l�9, Revised Auditor's Subdivi�ion
No. 77� generally located on Talmadge Lane and 75th Way N.E.
Mr. Boardman directed the Commission to turn to page 39 in their agendas�
n and showed them the two areas where`_the City wanted to vacate road ease-
% ments they presently had. He explained that one was located on the
rev�.sed Osborne Way and the other was where 75th was do�m by the St. Paul
Water<�Torks. He pointed out where they wanted a 30� triangle dedicated
and another axea dedicated. Mr. Boardman stated they had contacted St.
Pual Water Works and had gotten verbal agreements, and documents were
being drawn up for the exchange of easements.
Mrs. Schnabel asked Mr. Boardman if the City had reacted in any way to the
request from the neighbors who live along 75th in regard to the drainage
problem, and he replied that that was supposed to be taken care of with
the new Osborne Way.
MOTION by Schnabel, seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Commission
recommend to City Council the approval of Vacation Request SAV �76-07,
by the City of Fridley: Vacate existing un-needed roadway easement in
consideration for additional roadway easements being acquired, located
on Lot J�9, Revised Auditor's Subdivision No. 77, generally located
on Talmadge Lane and 75th Way N.E. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimously.
S. CONTINUID: PROPOSID MAINTENANCE CODE:
Mr. Boardman stated that they had gone through to a certain degree the
�\ direction that the Commission had given last time. He explained the
code had been revised and put into a certain order that was acceptable
_" according to safety, health and appearance. He added that he was stiTl
going through it somewhat to check on the different property standards,
FHA and.that type of thing. r1r. Boardman further explained he had an
inter.n �rorking on this and was just about ready to present it.
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Pa,ge 17
7P
� -
� 6. CONTINUID ; HUMAN DE�TELQPP•1ENT GOALS AND OBJECTIVES
rlr. Boardman inforrned the Commission he had nothing further on this at the
present time.
7. RECEIVE PAAd{S & RECREATION COMMISSION MIANTES: NOVEMBER 15 1976
MOTION by Shea� seconded by Schnabel, that the Planning Commission receive
the P�rks & Recreation Commission minutes of November 15, 1976.
Mrs, Shea eommented that she had noticed Nir. Langenfeld had requested that
the initials be clarified, and they weren't. She said she would appreciate
't2'18t 8.1.$O e
Mr. Langenfeld stated that he had read about the Ea.st River Road project
under 1Vew Business and he wished it to go on record that Jan Seeger was
the only one who spoke up in behalf of the idea.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
8. RECENE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY COriMISSIOAT MINUTES: NOVEhhiBER lb 1976
� Mr. Langenfeld said he would like to make a couple of correct3.ons, and
� pointed out the last sentence in the first
paxagraph on page 57 should
read "environment and industry" instead of '�industry and industry'�. He
stated he also wished to bring up that the conversation referred to in
the first paragraph on pa�e 55 was not his conversation with ti�Ialt Starwalt,
but this.took place with the Chairman of the Project Committee during a
City Council meeting.
MOTIQN by Langenield, seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Commission
receive the Environmental Quality Commission minutes of November 16, 1976.
Nir• Boardman noted that there had been some discussion under the F�viron-
mental Education Program concerning the E�vironmental Commission trying
to get review power over the budget for the naturalist. He said that any-
thing other than discussion on that topic, such as a motion, would be out
of the scope of the ordinance that was established for the E�nvironmental
Commissian.
Mr. Langenfeld said he had one other correction, and stated that on page
55, the seventh sentence should read "He said he believed these goals and
objectives had an environmental impact that involved the entire City��. The
word "statement" should be eliminated.
Chairperson Haxris said he was wondering about the mining ordinance, and
where they were on that. Mr. Langenfeld said they had instructed the City
n to use the model ordinance from Metro Council and incorporate the needed
environmental aspects of that into an ordinance that could be drawn up by
the City and the II�vironmental Quality Commission would review it. Right
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 18
�
�
now, he said, the permit they use for riining was the only governing instru-
ment as far as restricting any unnecessary mining.
Mr. Boardman informed the Commission that at this time they had issued two
permits on it, and since that time had issued a tag to one of the operators
who was to have had an appeaxance in court today. He explained that the
City had told him in a letter that ii the debris continued he would be
jeopardizing his permit. Mr. Boa,rdman stated that they had not issued a
permit to Chines at this time, and said they were applying to Anoka County
for a clean demolition land fill in the area. Mr. Boardman said he hac3
talked to Bob Hutchinson on this and he thought they would make a recommenda-
tion to Anoka County that this application be denied. He explai.ned they
did have several problems with Chives� property that they intended to get
into when they regiewed it according to the model ordinance.
Mr. Langenfeld said that if the members of the Commission were interested
in more specific answers to this question, they could be found in the last
two motions on page 51. He explained that they would like to see the ord3,n-
ance in concurrence with the permit. P7r. Boardman saia they had the power
to do this through the ordinance they presently had in the application
process, as there was a statement in that application for stipulations that
allowed some flexibili�y with Staf'f to issue stipulations on the property.
He added that most of the applications were pretty and cut and dried.
(� Chairperson Harris asked if the permit that was issued to Minnesota Transfer
was issued to Minnesota Transfer or to their subcontractors. Mr. Boardman
reglied it had been issued to their contractor. Mr. Harris said that as long
as they were talking about this, he would like to throw out an idea and get
the Commission's thoughts on it. He stated that for years and years everybody
said peat was a nasty substance and tried to get rid of it, but i.n the past
few years it hadn't worked out that way. All of a sudden, he said, it got
fluffed up and called black dirt and was sold for a tremendous price. He
stated that our neighbors to the North on the Iron Range had a commodity
they sold called taconite, and they taxed it, and he was wondering about
having a black dirt tax. Mr. Boardman asked for what purpose, and Mr. Harris
replied to help defray the costs of administrating the ordinance and it also
might be a good way of pumping a little money into the park capital budget.
Mr. Boardman said they were not supposed to have anything over that permit
fee, but Mr. Harris pointed out that the iron mining companies were paying
millions of dollars and they ran their school districts off of it. He asked
why they couldn't use the same rationale on taxing black dirt in Fridley to
help capitalize the park improvement plan, and said it would be the same as
taxing any other mi.nable product. r�7r. Boardman said he didn't lrnow what
the state tax laws said concerning this. Mrs. Shea suggested directing.
Staff to look into this.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, a11, voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Langenfeld said he wished to make a couple of statements in regard to
f� the Environmental Commission. fie noted that many negative feelings and ideas
came out from these various meetings and Project Committee meetings. He
7Q
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 page �9
7R
;� stated that the ultimate goal was for the overall betterment of the City
and yet here and there they were being accused of violating a charter, and he
didn't think they were. He also said that the East River Road Project
Committee had been termed as an ��interest " group, when it wasn�t intended
to be so. He said that he thought some of the Commission members were
familiar with the onslought of citizens from East River Road that came
in about 1968 and kept the City Council busy for many meetings, and at
least they had accomplished that now the citizens were discussing their
problems with the Project Committee, who discussed it with the Fridley
�nvironmeri�al Commission, and in turn it was discussed at the Planning
Commission. He said that the citizens were airing out their feelings
at these various meetingss and what took place was a good form of citizen
input as well as a controlled-type meeting. Mr. Langenfeld explained that
they hoped to use Ea.st River Road as�,a pilot type thing to go into problems
of other roads, maybe extending to Highway 65, etc.
��1
r
Mr. Langenfeld said he got a little uptight when he heard they were violating
a charter. He stated that this was the very nature of the reason why the
ordinance was changed for citiz�n participation, and he didn�t think Envir-
onmental should drop the ba11 just because other Commi.ssions did. He
explained that when people started talking about the environment, they
were dealing with something a lot broader in scope than hockey, football
or a play. He stated that F�vironmental was unique and different, and
perhaps that was why this Commission was so grossly misunderstood at times.
9. RECEIVE APpEALS COMMISSION �IINUTES: NOVEMBER 22 1976
MOTION by Schnabel, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission receive
the Appeals Commi.ssion minutes �f November 22, 1976.
Mrs. Schnabel said the Commission might be interested �Eo note that this
wa.s intended to be a$I�0,000 house and was on a 50� lot. She saa.d it was
a littie shocking to find out what you could get for $�.0,000. Mr. Bergman
commented that he thought this meeting was more interesting than usual,
and noted that Mrs. Schnabel had asked if there would be a garage and the
builder expla�ned they would not build one but would provide space for one.
He noted that a refrigerator, dishwasher and carpeting were included, and
thought it was interesting in view of a trade-off and what a person got
instead of a garage. Mrs. Schnabel agreed it was revealirzg to find out what
was included for $1�0,000.
Mr. Bergman saa.d that this was an example of �rhat could be built for lo�r
and.moderate income having not required a gaxage. He noted that their choice
could be $1�0,000 for an eleven hundred square foot new house, an appreciably
lower cost for a five to ten year old house, or renting. He stated there
were all those options there and he thought they had gotten themselves
trapped into the fact that in pursuing the objective of providing housing
for low and moderate incomes it hxlto be new, and h2d to be purchased instead
� of rented. He stated that in his opinion, a low or moderate income person
still couldn;t afford to buy this particular house, and Mrs. Schnabel agreed.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, the motion carried unanimously.
�
�
�
�
��
Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976
- �.
10. OPEN DISCUSSION
Page 20
MOTIQN by Langenfeld, seconded by Bergman� that the P�.anning Commission
receive the letter addressed�to Councilman Fitzpatrick from George Fred-
erick. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye� the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Bergman asked if this was from a private citizen, and Mr. Boardman
answered it was.
P4r. Boaxdman informed th� Commission that there would be a meeting the
following night in Coon Rapids on the Land Planning Act from Metropolitan
Council. He said this would be one of the first seminars, and the City
would haqe a Staff inerrtber attending and the Planning Commission was
invited to attend also. He added that there would be some discussion as
to the funding sources.
MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission
receive the memo from the City Attorney on Special Use Permits. Upon a
voice vote, all noting aye� the motion carried unanimously.
Mrs. Schnabel noted that this was the memorandum the Appeals Commission
wanted. �
Mrs. Schnabel said she had a request to make of the persons responsible
for typing the minutes for the various meetings. She noted that on the
even-numbered pages the margins were run over so far that the last words
were nery difficult to read when the minutes were in the book, and asked
that wider right-hand maxgins be used. Mr. Boardman said it was so noted.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTIOIV by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the meeting be adjourned.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Planning
Commission meeting of December 8, 1976 adjourned at 11:00 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
�\ � / /p���%
�2:1?{�1?7/7'/l ( _//lX/i'�r'!�i� ��,.
^ Sherri O�Donnell
Recording Secretary
7S