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PL 04/05/1978 - 30489� 0 i� CITY OF FRIDLEY PLANN IN G COMMIS S ION rfEETIN G APRIL 5, 1978 ______ CALL TO ORDER• Chairperson Harris called the April 5, 1978 Planning Commission Meeting to order at 7:37 P. M. - ROLL CALL: Members Present: Storla, B�rgffian, Harris, Peterson, Gabel and T,an genield Members Absent: Schnabel, Gabel representiZg Others Present: Jerrold Boardman, City Planner APPROVE PLANNING CO1�lISSI(AV MINUTES: MARCH 22 1978: MdTION by Mr. Langenfeld, seconded by Mr. Bergman, to approve the March 22, Z97� �planning Commi.ssi�n minutes. On Pa�e 11, second paragraph trom the bottom of the page, Ms. Gabel requested r^� the word "plan" be changed to "concept": UP� A VOYCE VOTE, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimausly dncl tfie minutes were approved with the above amendment. 1. PUfiLIC fiEARTi�TG: RE�UEST FOR CpECTAL USE PERMTT SP ��'78-44 BY JOHN R. DOYI,�: PER FP.TDLEY CITY CODE, SECTIQN 205.�J51, 3, E, TO PERMCT R-1 Z�1EU PROPERTY (SINGLE FAr1ILY DWELLINGS) TO BE USED FOR AN OFF�STREET PARKING LOT FOR A PROPOSED APARTMEIVT BIJII,DING ON ADJACENT L[�ND, TO BE LOGr1T'ED QN LOTS� 73 AND 79, BLOCK A, RIVERVIEW HEIGHTS, THC SANL BEI�iTG PART OF 441 HUGO SiREET N. E. MOTTON by Ms. C�ble, sec�nded by Mr. Langenfeld, to open the Public Hearing. Upon a voice vote9 ali votin g aye, the motion carried unaniaiously. Th� public Hearin g was opened at 7;40 P. Ma Mr. Boardman stated the property on which the building will be loca�ed is zoned R-3, however, this reque�t is to use two adjacent single famil;* lots for parking.. He indicated the staff did not see any problems witn this request for a special use permit, however, one of the stipulations for the parking lot would be solid screenin g along �he East and N orth sides of the property. rir. Boardman stated all other requirements have been met, with the exception of a variance on the front yar� setback. He stated L-he Appeals Co�ission has recommended approval of the variance. ,� . . - tir. Doyle stated, at the re�uest of City staff, they have revised the plans to include the apartment building on the R-3 property, move the buildin� back fruYn East River Poad and incorporate Lots 78 and 79 for parking. � P'LANNING COMMISSI�iV MEETING - APRIL 5, 1978 _ �PAGE 2' • Mr. Doyle explained the apartment building itself will be in the semi-deluxe category with each unit having their individual underground 'parking stall. He stated Lots 78 and 79 will be used for auxiliary parking. �"1 Mr. Harris asked how many units would be included in the apartment building. Mr. Doyle stated there would be a total of 10 units for this parcel, each having a tuck�under garage. Mr. Harris asked Mr. Doyle if he had any objections to the screening fence recommended by staff. � Mr. Doyle questioned what type of fence the staff had in mind. Mr. Boardman stated it has to be a solid separation of either vegetation or solid board fence. He stated, from past experiences, a solid wood fence would probably , be the best. Mr. Doyle indicated there would be no problems with the fencin g. Mr. Peterson questioned why it was suggested the residential lots be used for parkin g. Mr. Boardman stated the parkin g lot could have been�located� on the iuiimproved iot area, however, if East River Road is ever widened, they might lose some of the parking area. Mr. Doyle stated if the parkin g were on the ur.improved area, you would almost have to have access onto East River Road which is less desirable. r"'� No persons in the audience spoke for or against this request for a special use permit. MOTICDI by Mr. Bergman, seconded by Ms. Gabel, to close the Public Hearing. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. The Public Hearin g was closed at 7:50 P. M. MOTION by Mr. Peterson, seconded by Mr. Langenfeld, that the Plannin � Co�ission recommend approval of the Request for Special Use Permit, SP ��78-04 by John R. Doyle: Per Fridley City Code, Section 205.051, 3, E, to permit R-1 zoned pro- perty (single family dwellinga) to be used for an off-street parking 1ot for a proposed apartment buildin g on adjacent land, to be located on Lots 78 and 79, Block A, Riverview Heights, the same being part of 441 Hugo Street N. E. Mr. Harris questioned Mr. Peterson if he wished to include the reco�nendation for solid screen fencing i°n his motion. Mr. Peterson felt this was covered in the code and, therefore, wouldn't be necessary to include it in the motion. UP(Til A VOICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. r"� -�^°� PI,�TNING COMMISSION MEETING - APRIL S� 1978 PAGE 3 2. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT. SP �78-05, BY BII�INIE ,,..� ROZMAN: PER FRIDLEY CITY CODE, SECTION 205.131b 3, A,3, TO ALLOW THE , CC�ISTRUCTION CF A RECREATIONAL USE BUILDING, ON THE NORTH 300 FEET GF THE SOUTH 1105 FEET OF TI� EAST HALF OF TFiE NORTHEAST QUARTER OF THE SOUTHEAST QUARTEft OF SECTION 3, THE SAME BEING 8031 BEECH STR�ET N. E. MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld, seconded. by Mr. Bergman, to open the Public Hearing. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. The Public Hearing was opened at 7:55 P. M. Mr. Boardman stated a commerical recreational use is allowed in an M-2 zone with a special use permit. This request is for the operation of a discotheque in an M-2 zone between Main and Beech Streets. Mr. Rozman stated this would be a discotheque for teenagers from the ages of 13 to 19. He s�ated it would be a disco atmosphere, without the liquor. He indicated they plan to have a concession stand which would serve pop, gopcorn, etc. Mr. Rozman stated they now have a similar operation i.n the Cedarville Shopping Center in Eagan at Highway 13 and Cedar Avenue. He explained their hours of operation would be on Friday and Saturday nights from 8 to mi�inight and on Sunday ni�ht from 8 to 10 P. M., during the school year. However, they may be open Wednesdays through Sunday during the suIIaner months. � Mr. Rozman explair.ed they have had no problems with their operation in Eagan and parents have nothing but praise for the recreation center. He felt there was a need for this type of entertainment throughout �the metro area. Ms. Ga.bel questioned the costs for admittance to the discotheque. Mr. Rozman stated it would $2.50 and once a person entered, they could not leave the � premises. He explai.necl there would be coat checking available which the persons must.use. Mr. Petezson questioned if Eagan was contacted regarding their cominents on the discotheyue. Mr. Boardman stated they had not been contacted. Ms. Gabel questioned how many persons the buildan g would aecotmmodate. Mr.� Rozman felt anywhere from 1,200 to 1,400. Mr. Boardman stated what is allowed in this type of situation is one person per 15 square feet of floor area. Although the buil.ding is 15,000 syuare feet, all is not open area. He felt the useable dance area is about 12,000 square fee�t. Mr. Rozman stated the reason he picked this area is that the industries would be closed at night and there wouldn't be any objections from persons in residences that it was too loud or too many cars. P'LANNIlVG COMMISSION MEETING - APRIL 5. 1978 PAGE 4 Mr. Dick Brama explained the building would be design�ed as a multi-purpose buildin g that could be converted to a warehouse at a later date. He stated the construction would probably be pre-cast material. Mr. Storla questioned how soon the building would be completed. Mr. Brama indicated it would probably take a minimum of six umnths to have the plans finalized,.obtain financing, etc. Mr. Langenfeld asked Mr. Rozman if he was plannin g to lease the building. , Mr. Razman stated he would own the buildin g and he and his,nephews would run the discotheque. He indicated he planned to hire persons from the area to se�l concessions, tickets, etc. I�Ia�. Langenfeld questioned if there would be pinball machines and pool.. Mr. Rozman stated they plan to have pinball machines, but no pool tables. Mr. Otto Tau�er, 5866 2nd Street, indicated he.had no special interest in this request, but felt the Co�nission should keep the curfew laws in mind as this may conflict. Ms. Gabel questioned how many persons would be supervising this operation. Mr. Rozman stated there would probably be 8 to 10 people involved. Mr. Boardman stated some of the staff's concerns would be with the layout and drainage. He felt there should be some additional screening and land- �aped areas and was-concerned about drainage with such a large area black- topped. � Mr. Boardman stated the drainage was discussed with the, Public Works Director and in order not to increase the run-off, some ponding would be required. Mr. Boardman also pointed out-there may.be some�problems�with teenagers in an industrial area that is not well traveled. Mr. Rozman stated �st of the person� comin g to their center in Eagan are dropped �ff and picked up by their parents. Mr. Boardman questioned about how many cars they have when they are open. Mr. Rozman felt there were about 200 cars. . Mr. Peterson questioned if there was enough property for a holding pond. Mr. Boardman stated this has been discussed with Mr. Brama, who owns property both to the 1Vorth and South of 81st, and he wishes to create a large pond at the southeast corner of Sls�t and Main Street to serve as a holding pond for the entire�40 acre development. At this time, however, only six acres are under construction. Mr. Harris felt he had too many questions in his mi.nd to take action on this request this ev�in g. Iie indicated he would like to talk with the property owners in the area. , Mr. Brama stated the tenants in his building were very open to the idea. � . . �,.,�.,., P7�NNING COMMISSI�1 MEETIl`IG - APRIL 5, 1978 �PAGE 5 MOTIaN by Mr. peterson, sec.onded by Mr. Langenfeld, to continue the public hearing to the next regular meeting on April 19, 19178 in order to check with ,..� the Village of Eagan regarding.this operation; to check with property o�aners in Che area regarding eheir feelings on the proposed use; and a report from the Fublic Safety Department as to the traffic. Upon a voice vote, all vot- ing aye, the motion carried unanimously. 3. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A�RQPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT P. S. ��78-01 TRI-CO_ADDITION, BY TRI-CO BUILDERS, INC : BEING A REPLAT OF LOTS 2 AND 3, AUDITOR'S SUBDIVISION N0. 89, EXCEPT THE EASTERLY 82 FEET OF THE WESTERLY 810 FEET OF THE N ORTH 65 FEET OF THE SOUTH 157 FEET OF LOT.3, AND EXCEPT THE WEST 90 FEET OF THE EAST 290 FEET OF LOT 3, SAID EASTERLY 290 FEET ' BEIlVG MEASURED FROM THE NORTH TO SOUTH QU.ARTER LINE OF SECTION 12, SUBJECT TO AN EASEMENT FOR ROAD PURPOSES OVER THE NORTH 30 FEET OF LOT 2, AND OVER THE EAST 50 FEET OF LOTS 2 AND 3, GII3ERALLY LOCATED SOUTH OF 7?�TD AVII�IUE N. E. AND EAST OF CENTRAL AVINUE N. E. >. MOTION by Mr. Peterson, seconded by Ms. Gabel to open the Public Hearing. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. The Public Hearin g was opened at 8:25 P. M. Mr. Boardman stated this is a plat involvin g six lots generally located South of 72nd Avenue and East of Central Avenue. He indicated there would be four- plex units on five of the lots with a multiounit complex on the other lot. Mr. Boardm�n stated access would be through an ea�ement shown through Lot 5. He explained it is intended to have that area fc�r parking and garage.s pr.o- ,�, vided on either side of that access. Mr. Boardman stated on Lots 1, 2, 3 and 4 they would like to minimize access to Old Central as much as possible and have maximum access through one access onto 72nd Avenue. He felt, in order to accomplish this, they would have to look at the design of the structures. Mr. Boardman felt this could be do�ne on Lots 2, 3 and 4, but would possibly have to have access from Lot l on to Old Central. Mr. James George, representing Tri-Co Builders, stated the;.e is, at the present time, a driveway entering onto Old Central and they are changin g this to go into the multiple site. Mr. George stated the fact of not havin g access onto Old Centiral comes as a surprise. He stated it was their intention to have a coffinon driveway between Zots 1 and 2 and Lot 3 would access to 72nd Avenue. Mr. Boardman asked if any �ttempts :oere made to purchase the existing house, Mr. George stated the property owner was contacted, but did not wish to sell her property. Mr. Harris asked if the City could live with one access onto Old Central. Mr. Seardman indicated he couldn't see a problem with one access, but would question any other access when talking about four-ple.ces. ,,"� Mr. Peterson questioned if the petitioner obtained a permit from the County to access onto Old Central which is a County road. , �.�� PLANNING COMMISSIOIV MEETING - APRIL 5, 1978 PAGE 6 Mr. Boardman stated this would be necessary, however, the County generally accepts the recommendations of the City. Mr. Harris questioned why so much of Lo� 5 is cut off. Mr. George explained there is a 30 foot sewer easement that cannot be built on. He stated they moved the access over where the paved surface would be installed so that garages could be put in the wider area which would also serve as a screening area for the four-plexes. Mr. Jim Determan, 1241 72nd Avenue, stated he owns the welding shop across the street from where these apartments would be constructed and was opposed Co them. He stated he has dogs on his premises to protect his property and felt, with the apartments, complaints would be received on the dogs barking. Mr. Determan also stated the parkin g problem is so bad on the street that he cannot get into his.busi.nESS.: He felt, if the apartments are constructed, he�would like;�to see a fence betcaeen 72.nd and the buildings to keep Qeople from.parking on the streets. Mr. Harris explained that the parcel is zoned R-3 which allows for apartments to be constructed, and the Zoning Code provides for off-street parkin g. Mr. Dete�an indicated he caanted to make the Co�3.ssion aware of the problems they have had with the parkin g. r�1r. Boardman felt if they had many problems with the street parkin g, the area would have t� be signed. _ No other persons i.n the audience spoke for or against this proposed preliminary plat. MOTIQN by Mr. Lan genfeld, seconded by Ms. Gabel to close the Public Hearing. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. The Public Hearing was closed at 8:47 P. M. Mr. Langenfeld requested clarification on how the road would be constructed. Mr. Boardman stated it is his understanding that when the in gress/egress is put in, garages would be constructed along this as this would be part of the access in the parking lot. He stated the parking should be arranged to eliminate as many accesses as possible on to Old Central. � MOTION by Mr. Peterson, seconded by Mr. Bergman, that the Plannin g Commission recoa�nend approval of the Proposed Preliminary Plat, P. S. �k78-01, Tri-Co Addition, by Tri-Co Bu�lders, Inc. with no more than one access onto Old Central and that staff work with the existin g property otaners to alleviate the parking problems on Central by proper signing, fencin g, etc. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the m�tion carried unanimously. 4. PUBLIC HEARIN G: PARKS AND OPII�1 SPACE PLAN Mr. Harris explained the public hearing this evenin g is for the Park� and Open Space Plan. He stated, however, persons are present from the Hyde Park area and didn't know if they wished to discuss the Hyde Park Plan regarding the zoning and street issue which is scheduled for a pnblic hearing before the Commission on April I9, 1978. . � � � PLANN TN G COMMI SS I�1 MEETIN G-�PRIL 5, 197 8 pA� 7 , Mr. Harris felt, therefore, if the Commission wished to hear general discussion �� from the residents regarding the Hyde Park area, the rules of order could be suspended and they could r�roceed with �n informal he3rin g. Ms. Gabel felt it wou�.d be appropriate to address the Parks and Open Space Plan since the public hearing is scheduled�for this evenin g. MOTIoN by Mr. Peterson, seconded by Mr. Langenfeld, to suspend the rules of order. L'pon a voice vote, a11 votin g aye, the motion �arried unanimously. Mr. Boardman gave a short presentation of the background of the Hyde Park area. He explained the zoning was�the primary issue and several meetings were held by staff with the residents of the area regardin g the future potential of Hyde Park. From theae meetin gs, 3t was brought out the resid- ents generally wanted the area to remain as single family with no expansion of tnultiple and commerical uses. Mr. Boardman explained. the plan for the Hyde Park area is a tentative plan and the reas.on the public hearin gs are held is to find out what the people want. Mr. Otto Tauer, 5866 He stated he was told 54 people had signed the petition. 2nd Street, indicated his concern about Skyline Park. by former. Mayor. Liebl that �he park was pu� i:s� :because a petition. He stated he was never contacted to sign �� He stated he has been involved in .thQ neighborhood meetings and was not aware of any plans to expand the park. He stated he does not want to see anyone . � in the neighborhood hurt or property taken away from them and noted the park pTan involves seve�al hoines. � Mr. C1yde DeBolt, 5861 Main Street, indicated his home is one they are throwin g out. He stated he looked for a 1on g;time to find an area he wanted when he bought the home and was not in favor of being thrown off his land. Mr. DeBolt stated on the West side of Main Street there is a large open field that the present owner wants to sell. He felt if the City wished a large pl3yground, they should contac� the owner and put it in and let the people keep their homes. He stated if there is the question about children crossing the street and getting to thati area, he would personally buy and erect a stop sign. � Mr. Ed Pries, 5905 Main Street, stated he has canvassed the neighborhood and has seen no interest in the park. He, for one, doesn't want the park and doesn't want to sell his land or have it condemned. Mrs. Theresa Abitz, 216 57th Place, stated a home just a block away from hers sold for $29,000 and �ahen she offered to sell for $22,50U she was told she was asking too�much. She �aid Mr. Boardman.told her the reason the other home sold for $29,000 was that it was residential and coor'th more. She stated she didn't want the cotmnerical zoning so make her property residential s� she can get more for it. 0 P'LANNING COMMISSION MEETING - APRIL 5. 1978 pAGE 8 , Mr. Boardman stated Mrs. Abitz's property is next to the Holiday Village � Garage and this whole strip of property was not included in the Hyde Park /"� special zoning because of the potential for commerical development. He explained she owns two 40 foot lots and even combining these properties, it would not meet requirements for a coimnercial zone. He stated the residential dwellin g 3s valuable to the person living there, but to a co�erical buyer, it is probably a detriment because the structure would have to be taken down to build a building. He felt one of.the reasons the Hyde Park area didn't develop commercially was because of the cost. Mr. Harris told Mrs. Abitz that no one is going to put her out of her home and explained they are talking about two different things. One is the re- zoning, which is a special zoning district and the other matter of par-k� ��ich is a completely different item. Ms. Gabel stated the idea of the committee was to solve the zoning problem so that people could live in their homes and if something happened to the home, they could rebuild. She stated, during this process, the staff brought up the park plan. She stated, at that time, there was no one who objected to it, however, if it upsets anqone she felt the thing to do was to scrap the whole thing. Mr. �Yank Schoenberger, 5857 Main St-reet, stated he agxeed with Mr. DeBolt's coimments. He asked that their homes be left alane and stated he was strictly against the park. Mr. Langenfeld stated from listening to�the conversations, he was deeply up- n set with the idea that the residents feel they are going to be "kicked-out" of their homes. . Mrs. ICatherine Crooks, 5910 2nd Street, stated they are in the process of selling their home and if they don't inform the prospective buyer of this proposed park, the}� could be liable. She felt if they are going to put in a park it should be adequate to serve the people. She stated, by acquiring the additional properties, it still wouldn't be a large enough area to make it a sensible size. She felt a park would be better used if it was large enough for children to play ball and do other thi.ngs they wanted to do. Mrs. Dzbra Seledec, 5835 Main Street, stated because of the park, they have had damage to their property. She stated older children aren't interested in Skyline Park and if any type of a park were to be considered, it should be with the idea of a park.and playgrourid. � Mrs. Dorothy Gargaro, 6615 Fridley Street, stated she wanted a park and would take the one they don't want. Mr. Boardman pointed out to Mrs. Gargaro that�the comprehensive plan indicates her area is �nadequately served a�ith park facilities. He stated it has been suggested t� possibly utilize the area of Rice Creek School for these facili- ties. � ' r--� � P'LANNING COMMISSION MEETING - APRIL 5, 1978 PAGE 9 - Mr. Ben Rankin, 5923 Main Street, stated he has lived at this addxesa since � 1947 and raised seven children without any parks and doesn't see the reason for the park. � Mr. Rueben Paulson, 5875 2nd Street, stated last year he received a permit to build on his house. Since then, he received a notice on the street improvement, a notice he could borrow money to fix up his house and now they say they are going to tear it down. His question was why should he fix the house or pay for the road. Mr. Harris stated he could see the point Mr. Paulson was making. Mr. Boardman asked the residents if they felt they needed a better park facility than Skyline and if so, do they feel the Burlington/N orthern property would be the pLace for such a facility, The residents responded they didn`t need a park, no one wants it. Mr. Bergnan stated, personally, he was not in favor of the plan that would expand the present park, as shown in the preliminary plan. He feZt it wasn't right to discuss the need with the question of expandin g the present park hangi.ng over their heads. Mr. Peterson stated he is ups�t because as Chairman of the Parks and Recrea- tion Commission, he comes to the Planning Co�ission 4nd finds this plan has never come before t�e Parks and Recreation Commission: He stated he is upset �` that Co�issians are set up and somethirig like this happens. He felt this hadn't gone through the proper channels, � MOTI�V by Ms. Gabel, seconded by Mr. Storla to open the Public Aearing on the Parks and Open Space Plan. Upon a voice vote, all votir.g aye, the m�tion carried unanimously. The Public Hearin g was opened at 9:40 P. M. MOTI�i �y 1�',r. Peterson, seconded by Mr. Bergman, that the first item to he considered of ttie Parks and Open Space Plan is Page 11 dealing specifically with Skyline and Sylvan Hills and Page 41 regarding land acquisition. i?pon a voice vote, all voting aye, th� motion carried unanimously. Mr. Peterson stated on Page 11 re�ardin g the ratio of parks to population., it shows the parks are adequate based on the standard of 1 acre for each 800 people. • Mr. Boardman stated this is both f�r the Hyde Park and Sylv�n areas.and these were looked at as one neighborhood component. It stated it may be more realistic to look on Hyde Park as a neighborhood a-nd Sylvan.Hills as a neigh- borhood and separate the two. He stated, if this is done, the Hyde Yark area may then fall short. Mr. Harris noted that Skyline and Sylvan were not on rhe.inventory on page 6. Mr. Leek of the Planning Staff stated the chart un Page 6 was bas�d on inform�- atian xeceived from the. various co�nittees and some of these did not repor.t. 0 0 PLANN7NG COMMISSION MEETIlVG - APRIL 5, 1978 PAGE 10 Mr. Harris also r�oted, from the chart on Page 6, several others were in the � same situation. � Mr. Boardman reviewe� Page 41 covering Acquisitions. Mr. Harris questioned which parcels now had existing stzuctures. Mr. Boardman stated there are 10 in Riverview Heights, 1 in the Flannery area and 7 in the Hyde Park area, MOTION by Mr. Peterson, seconded by Mr. Bergman to re-write Page 11 of the parks and Open Space Plan so that in the Hyde Park area, Skyline Park would not be expanded by any acquisition of surroundin g properties to increase its present size. • Ms. Gabel indicated she would not vote on the motion because she felt she has a direct conflict of interest, living in the area and serving on the committee. She stated slie personally feels, if this is how the residents feel, this is how it should be. Mr. Langenfeld stated he gets the impression that some of this is bein g shoved at the people and doesn't like it one bit. Mr. Harris stated he would concur. Mr. Storla stated some people talk about houses so often they forget they are homes. Mayor Nee stated he didn't see where there is a proposal to acquire land. Ms. Gabel stated on Page 41 there is a map showing Acquisitions. Ma.yor N ee stated, speakin g for the Council members, he resents the implication that this was in some way, a Council decision. He stated the r.�uestion of Skyline Paric came from the neighborhood council to do this. He st3ted the first time he received this was Saturday and when it is suggested the Council en gineered this project, this is not true. He stated the reason he is sittin g here this evenin g is to hear what the people have to say. Mayor N ee stated the Council will not vote to spend money on parks where people dan't want it. UPtX�I A VOICE VOTE, Mr. Peterson, Mr. Ber�man, Mr. Storla, Mr; Harris and Mr� Langenfeld voted in fauor�of.ths..motion. Ms. .Gabel.ab3�a�.�a�d from voting. Mota.on •carried by a vote of 5-1. ' Mrs. Abitz again brought up the question of the zonin g of her property. Mr. Harris advised here that the matter of the rezoning would be before the Coimmission at their next meeting. R�CESS• Recess called by Mr. Harris at 10:07 P. M. RECONVENED• Mr. Harris reconvened the meetin g at 10:30 P. M. � � PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING -.APRIL 5, 1978 PAGE 11 Referring to the chart on F�age 6, Mr. Peterson � in some areas. Hp stated this information was , project cou�ittee reports, and if no report was to get them to do this. � � stated no inventories were taken compiled from the neighborhood submitted, there was no way Mr. Boardman sCated in the "Inventory and Analysis" section, Pages 4 through 19, will be placed at the end, right before the "Su�ary of Findin gs''. He stated this whole area was the tot31 package of neighborhood impact from the 13 neigh� borhoods when they did the work through the Parks and Recreation Commission. Mr. Boardman stated the headin g would be changed from "Recommendations" to "Considerations". Mr. Boardman stated the actual inventory of the park facilities begins on Page Z0, showing classifications and types of existing facilities. Mr. Boardman stated there will be some changes made on the maps. He stated in Neighborhood 3, 64-1/2 Way is not a park facility and other areas where they should have listed parks,-they are not.shown. fle stated there has been discussion at the Park and Recreation and Council level on Hillcrest in Neighborhood 2 and the need for that facility. Councilman Schneider stated on Page 6 residents have trouble identifying with North Innsbruck, Innsbruck and Farr Lake. Mr. Langenfeld felt the overall document was very good, but questioned the Commission's inpue. Mr. Boardman stated the Commission went throu gh rhis page by page and I�Ir. Langenfeid brought up all recommendations from his Commission and it was then submitted to trie Planning Commission. � Mr. Boardman stated the Plannin g Coimmission then reviewed the material and from their recoimmendations, the plan was compiled. Mr. Peterson felt on Page 27, 3rd line, "girl watching" could be eliminated as he didn't think it was a viable part of the plan. Couacilman Schneider indicated he had a concern on the neighborhood breakdowns in terms of park land in ratio to the population. For example, Councilman Schneider cited Neighborhood 13 where Moore Lake is �onsidered i� allo.cation �f the acreage to the neighborhood. He stated the striking thin g is when you look on Page 42, you find, b3sically, they have no park facilities. Mr. Boardman stated he would agree with Counci_lman Schneider's comment. He felt when •they look at neighborhoods thPy should take into consideration design- ated parks and mini-parks. As far as the natura? history areas, they.are co�inity-wide parks and should be considered on the basis of the whole City. Mr. Peterson stated Neighborho�d 13 does hav� the land 4�hich has to be taken into consideration and doesn't know of a better system to use. PLANNING COMMISSIOIV MEETING - APRIL 5, L978 PAGE 12 - Mr. Boardman stated in looking at the neighborhoods, this is information thaC was gathered in the neighborhood groups. � Mr. Peterson thought perhaps they could take all community parks out and list them separately. Mr. Boardman felt there could be another section that shows City-wide facili- ties. N1r. Bergman stated he agrees with what is being discussed, however, he felt it would be hard to accomplish this. �'e stated, for example, Moore Lake contains both,.a tot-lot and'community facilities.- Mr. Peterson stated he felt the tot-lot was used primarily by people using the beach facilities. Mr. Harris questioned the progress as far as turning over the maintenance of regional park facilities to the County. Mr. Boardman stated he would recommend that those facilities that are regional in use should be turned over to the County and the City direct their primary efforts in providing neighborhood and City-wide facilities. Mr. Peterson questianed if any information was received from the City Attorney regarding this matter. Mayor N ee stated the Attorney indicated he would research this item as he n be�.ieved there were conditions on it, but an opinion hasn't been received as yet. Mr. Boardman stated Locke.P�rk,North Park and Islands of Peace are the three main areas that are actually classified as regional park areas. Mr. Harris wondered if it wouldn't be a good idea to have a policy for land acquisition. He felt this would take�care of some of the anxieties of the neighborhoods. Mayor N ee felt the Co�ission shouldn't be too concerned about the details of execution since implementation of the plan wonld take a great deal of money and a lot of time, probably over a 20 year period. Mr. Peterson stated, after hearing the residents this evening, one thin g dis- turbs him and felt that land acquisition for parks shouldn't be through con- deuazation . . Mr. Bergman felt, just as a policy, it would be wise not to show on any plans, for public or governmental use, any acquisition of anyone's property without previously discussin g this with the property o�,m er. Mr. Harris felt any reference to land acquisition in the plan should probabiy be eliminated. ' � � _ _ .,�"� n � FLANNItJG COMMISSION MEETING - APRIL_5, 1978 PAGE 13 Mr. Boardman stated they could eliminate Page 41 and make a general statement to the effect that the City may acquire additional property as needed. Mr. Bergman stated it was interestin g usin g the data to determine how much park land is needed for a neighborhood. 7.'he Hyde Park area showed a need for additional park facilities, however, the p.eople say they don't need any more park land. Mr. Peterson stated while today's population and age is such that there is no need for a park, this could recpcle in the years to come•and the residents may want a park. . Mr. Boardman stated he felt there is always a need for neighborhood park space. He thought perhaps the people caere reacting to the acquisition,_as �he park facilities they have are not adequate to serve that neighborhood. Councilman Schneider stated one of the discussions of the Benjamin-Briardale group was concern if they (the adults) were going to be able to use the park facilities since it would be a multi-use and" u•sed� by children as well_ as adults.. He felt, once a park is developed in this area, it will be greatly used. Mr. Boardman stated most the neighborhood facilities,are not the proper size to provide the activities people like, but that some of the larger parks ��ere just�as sterile and unuseable as the smaller parks. Mr. Langzafeld felt it should be stressed that this plan is not a fix�d docu- rient or law. Ms. Gabel stated there were several references to using school facilities and asked if this has been checked into. Mr. Peterson stated they have made unbelievable strides, not only with SchooZ District �'�14 but the othar schoal districts. Councilman Schneider stated in some cases, where use of school facilities are mentioned, this wi11 not be the case because of the school closings. Mayor N ee stated he was impressed with the Parks and Open Space P1an. He felt it wouldn't be realized for a number of years, but that you have to have a plan. He stated he didn't think the parks were ever developed in terms of need. Mayor Nee stated, regarding the land acquisition, he didn't think the Council could co�it itse.lf to nor_ usin g all its powers. fie stated an individual can vote not to condemn, but that is very definitely a part of the Council's powers. Mayor Nee stated he really didn't disagree with the judgment on Skyline, alth- ough at a previous meetin g there were quite a few people that were enthusiastic. Mayor Nee si-ated, as far as Riverview Heights, he feels the City should acquire that property. � Mr. Peterson felt it should be noted in the plan that, after adoption, it should be reviewed every few years. PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - APRIL 5, 1978 PAGE 14 Mr. Boardman stated implementation would be set up based on the plan and felt it shoul�d be reviewed every five�years. Councilman Hamernik stated he agrees a lot of effort went into this plan. He thought, however, there would be more emphasis on the discussions by the neighborhood groups from the different areas. He felt, if he took this plan to the groups and indicated this was the results of their work, he didn't think they would be too happy. Councilman Hamernik stated the "Summary of Findings" are very negative. He felt they had some work to do, but that there has been some gc+od work done in the past. Mr. Boardman felt the "Su�ary of Findin gs" is a step in gettin g into the recommendations. He felt it is negative because these are the things needed. He didn't think there was a need to go into the positive aspects. He stated, if you put in the positive thin gs, it would increase the size of the document and "muddle" it up. He felt the "Summary of Findings" was to get to the base of the issues. Mr. Bergman stated the "Summary of Findings" isn't an objective one as it doesn't show the positive aspects. He stated if all they are going to do is define "inadequacies" maybe they should ca11 it as such. Mr. Langenfeld stated the preliminary plan was full of negatives, but didn't think it was bad now. Councilman Hamernik stated the plan addresses w�iere you are and where the City � has to go, but felt the approach could have been different as he felt all the statements in the "Suffinary of Findin gs" had a negative aspect. Councilman Schneider stated he` also felt it was negative and_per�apB.soms chan ges could be made. Mr. Boardman stated they could include an introductory statement to the effect that although the summary of findings seem negative, tfiere are plenty of�posi-• tive aspects; however, for purposes of the plan, the followin g are considered to be the needs. Councilman Schneider stated he was not sure all of the citizen input found its•_way into the plan, but felt this was to be expected as it goes through the process. Mr. Harris fe1C possibly too much emphasis is bein g placed on the neighborhood groups. He felt they would play a part in implenientation of the plan. Mr. Boardman stated; when they envisioned neighborhood park groups, it was'�felt they would give them the.wanted-answers. However, the response didn't work that waq and was coming in at the wrong time.. He fe1C; in' implementing the. plan, it will lead back into these neighborhood areas, and possibly there should be a general statement to this effect. � --�-g�-H , �� PI.ANN]NG COMMIS�I�I MEETING - APKIL 5, I97� �PAGE 15 Mr. Peterson stated a11 information from the neighborhood groups was good inforrnation and although they didn't accompLish everything they hoped, he � felt it was a success and helpful. � Mr. Bergman stated people can become upset if they feel the time they spent on it was in vain and they cion't see their input in the results. � Mr. iiarris asked if the Commission wishecl to bri,ng the plan. back for additions and corrections. 0 Mr. Peterson stated he would prefer to see�it rewritten and sent to the Council. MOTIOIV by Mr. Bergman, seconded by Mr. Langerifeld to close the Public Hearing. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. The Public Hearin g was closed at 11:55 P. M. ' MOTION by Mr. Bergman, seconded by Mr. peterson, that the Parks and Open Space Plan, as reviewed during this public hearin g, be submitted to the Coun- cil, with changes as discussed. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 5. CO�TTTINUED: DISCUSSION ON IIVERGY COMMISSION MOTION by Mr. Peterson, seconded by Ms. Gabel to continue to Aprii 19, 1978 in view of the hour. Upon a voice vote, a11 voti.ng aye, the motion carried unanimously. 6. RECEIVE CflMM'JNITY DEVELOPMII�TT CONIMISSION MINUTES: MA�CH 14, 1978 MOTIOI�T by Mr. Bergman, seconded by Mr. peterson to receive the Co�nunity Devel- opment Commission Minutes of March 14, 1973. Ms. Gabel referred to Page 9, the first paragraph, regarding the com�ent that the staff inember be an input on information that was gathered, rather than a workhorse for the cogmnission. She stated this statement _confus�s her as she felt the staff was hired personnel and the commission the input people. She stated the members of the co�nission are volunteers and in no way tiave access to the information. � Mr. Boardman stated �he commissions were set up as implementation bod3.es and those reco�nendations to the Council were t�o be reviewed by the Planning Com- mission for their input on policy issues. He stated they stiart having problems when the Planning Conanission is lookin g at a policy issue and all of a sudden it is sent to coffinissions and the same input goes through another process and there is a lot of xepetition in commission ac�ivities. Mr. Boardman felt they are not uti7 izing their member co�ai`ssions in the way they.should. He indicated, because member commissions are gettin g tied up . with policy matters, he felt they are wastin g a lot of th�ir time. Ms. Gabel cited all the ti.me and research that was necessary when she chaired the Sign Co�ittee. She stated you canno� expect volunteers to do thi�. Mr. Boardman felt the staff should be providing the input and information to the tuember cotmnissions so they can make appropriate recommendations. He didn't � feel it was the staff's resgonsibility to put together the programs. . . �� PI,ANN IN G CON1��II SS ION MEETIN G- APRIL 5, 197 �i _ __ PAG� 16� ' z Ms, Gabel felt it was necessary for staff to gather certain information which the comn�ission doesn't have easy access to. She stated, when you come to tl�e point where the information is not available, y.ou have to fall back on the ;� professionals. She stated, according to the minutes, everything is backcaards. Mr. Bergman stated there was quite a discussion at the Community I7evelopment meetin g on these kinds of things as noted 3n the minutes of March 14, 1978. Mr. Boardman felt there is confusion on what the commission'3 responsibilitiea are and up to this time, it has been the staff's responsibility to come up with an agenda. He stated, actually the agenda should be the coaanission's responsibility. Mr. Harr3s reques.ted tt� this maticer be put on the Planning Commission's agenda. UP6iv A VOTCE VOTE ON THE MOTION, all votin g aye, the motion carried unanimously. 7. P.ECEIVE II�TVIRIX�TMELVTAL QUALITY �OMMlSSION AflNUTES : MARCH 21, 1978 MQTION t�y Mr. Langenfeld, seconded by Mr. Bergman to receive the Environniental Quality Co�mnission Minutes of March 21, 1978. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 8. RECEIVE AYPEAI,S COA1'�iIISSTON Af.CNUTES: ri.�RCH 28, 1978 MOTI.O!`d by Ms . Gabel, sion Minutes af March carried unanimously. HILLCREST PARK seconded by Mr. Lan genfe9.d to receive the Appea].s Commis- 28, 1978. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motior. � Mayor Nee stated he would like to get a recommendation on Hiltcrest Park on whether or not the City should keep the park. M�-o Boardman stated he was a Iittle skeptical about givin g it up because of the closing og River�aood School which lea�*es only Logan Park. Mx. Harris asl-:ed Mr. Boardman to check on the status of Hillcrest Park and felt it should oo to the Parks and Recreation Co�ission �efore coming to the Planning Co�ssion. R�Z(ZQ IN G- HYDE PARI: Mso Gabel stated, in a11 fairness to .7erry Boardman, the staff has had uea'y good rapport with tne residents of Hyde Park regarding the rezoning issue and they are doing.a good jab. ADJOURNMT�T T MOTION by Mr. Peterson, seconded by Mr. Storla to adjourn the April 5, 1978 Planning Coc�nission meeting. Upon a voice vote, all voting sye, Chairperson Harris declared the Plannin g Co�ni.ssion meeting adjourned at 12:22 P. M. ^ Respectfully submitted, --C-t��-�-�'� A�.���,�c�i � . Carole Haddad Acein g Recordin g Secretary . •'�