PL 11/28/1979 - 30524CITX �F ERIDLEY'
�� PI,ANNING COMMISSION MEETING._NOVEI�3E_R_28, 1979 ___
CALL TO ORDEP�
Chairman �Iarris callec� the Planning Couunission meeting of November 28, 1979, to
order aC 7:36 P.M.
RO"LL CAZL
Members Present: l�iro Q�uist, Ms. Hughes, Mr. Harris, Mxo Treuenfels, Mr. Hora,
Ms . Schnabel (arrived at 7:47 P ol�i. )
Members Absent: None
Others Present: Jerry Boaxdman, City Planner
Bill Deblon, Associate City Planner
APPRQVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES : NOVII�ER 7�_ 1979_;
MOTION by Mr. Oquist, seconded by Mr. Treuenfels to approve the Planriing Commission
minutes of Novembex 7, 1979 as corrected.
Ms. Iiughes asked fox the following clarifications to the minutes:
I'age 9, 3rd paragraph, last sentenee to xead; She felt the dollar amounts alloted
�,�, for the tatal requests should be increased, for exa+nple to $Z0,000 each, plus increase
"'�_ �he amount of the contingency fund to help fund the cxitical area requ�sts, at a
proper and acceptable level, such as SACAo
Page 11, last sentence; All SACA pays was $40 a. 4.
Page 12, first complete sentence, first paragraph; Saca serves more Fridley residents
then Columbia Heights and Fridley should help in the funding_.
Mr. Oquist aslced to have the 5th paragraph fxom tY�e bottom, page 3, omitted from the
record.
UPI�N A VOTCE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRi�AN H,�3RIS DECLAP.ED THE MOTTON CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
1. Pt)BLIC HEARING • REQiJEST FOR A SPECIAT� USE PERMI�, SP e��79-12. BY RICHARD N.
CARLSON: Per �ridley City Code, Seci�ion 205.157, D, to allow the construction
of a 26' x 25-1/2' addition to an existing house in CRP-Z (flood plain), lo-
cated on Lots 5, 6, and 7, Block W, Riveraiew Heights, the same being 615
Cheryl SY:reet N.E.
Mx. Boardman said this addirion was in the flood plain area and the proposal was for
living area above the gaxage. ,A g�rage taas considered an accessory building. He
checked with the state to see if the flood plain affects accessory buildings. The
.' state replied because thexe was no living �r.ea i,n an accessory building and the
� damage done.on accessory buildings was limited, they are exempt from setback and fill
xequirements that a�-e normally imposed in the flnc.�d plain district. However, a special
use permit will be required because they a•re building in the flood pla�.no He said
a�t�r staft reviewal, they felt :Elood plai�z criteria was being met and the application
shouid be approved.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, NOVENBER 28, 1979 PAGE 2•
Mr. Harri's asked if electrical or water services needed special consideration
because of the CRP-2 zoning. �..,` =
Mr. Boardman replied because this was an accessory building and exempt in the
flood plain, therefore no special regulations were required. He said the addition
was on an existing home and would have to comply wi*h the total flood plain disrtict.
Mr. Richard Carlson, 615 Cheryl Streee NE, was present for the request. Se said all
the electrical outlets would be located approximately 2 feet above the flood plain
high w�ter level. Mr. Carlson pointed out theYe will be a 55 gallon drum located in
the garage floor for any water ru.noff, such as snow melting.
Mr. Harxis asked to have the 2 foot lavel for electrical outlets stipulated in the
moCion if approved.
Ms. Hughes questioned what the addition would be used for and if there would be
bathroom facilities.
Mr. Caxlson replied there will be 2 bedrooms, a small recreation room and a bath.
The bathroom facilities will be located on the plum wall of the existing structure
so no new water lines will have to be installed.
Mr. Harris asked Mr. Boardman why he checked with the state on this application.
Mr. Boardman replied he checked because of the way ou� code read, ... stiuctures
for habitation constructed on fill shall be constructed so that the basement floor
or first floor, if there is no basement, is above the regulation flood level ...
The question came up, was a garage with structure above for habitation really a L�'�
habitation structure or an accessory building. He askerl the State what their inteni:-
was on accessory buildings because tne way the city code was written, staff could
have taken it either way. The state said if the living area above an accessory use
was out or above the potential area for damage, iL- should be considered an accessory
use.
MOTION by Mr. Oquist, seconded by Mre Treuenfels to close the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN HARRIS DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY. FUBLIC HEARING CZOSED AT 7:53 PoM.
MOTION by Mr. Oquist, secanded by Mr. Hora to recommend to City Council approval
of Special Use Permit ��'79-12 by Richard N. Carlson, with the following stipulation:
1. Electrical services be 2 feet above the flood plain level (100 year
flood elevation).
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING Ai'E, CHALT.MAN HARRIS DECLARED THE MOTIOrT CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY. - -
2, LOT SPLIT REQUEST, L.S. ��'79-08. BY GoW. PASCHKE: Split off the East 1 foot of
Lot 10, Block 1, Paco Ind�strial Park (7150 Commerce Circle West) and add it to
Lot 9, Block 1, Paco Industrial Park (200 Commexce Circle South) because of
•building encroachment. �
Mr. Boardman said this was a surveyor error. The 2 lots are owned by Mro Paschke
and the building was located on Lot 9 with a 1 foot encroachment on Lot 10. .
PLANNING COMNIISSION MEE�'ING NOVEMBER 28 1979 PAGE 3
` Mr. Boar�iman explained thaC Mr. Paschke would like to get the building placement
squared up with the lot lines for future possible ownership by 2 parties. The city
'""`� has no problems with this lot spJ_it request. Mr. Boardma.n also stated Chere �aas a
20 foot error on the south lot line. Mr. Paschke, Suburban Engineering and the city
were trying to work out a solution for thae problemo Mr. Paschke thought he bought
more land then he really did and has already done some heavy landscaping in the
area in question. It was belived that the drainage ditch was located on Paschke's
land but was really on park property.
MOTION by Mse Schnabel, seconded by Mr. Oquest to recommend to City Council approval
of L.S. �k79-08, GeW. Paschke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN HARRIS DECLARED THE MQTTON CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
3o RECEIVE HUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSIQN MINUTES: •NOVENIBER 1 1979
MOd TYON by�Piro Treuenfels, seconded by Ms. Hughes to receive the Human Resources
Cammission minutes of November 1, 1979e
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VO�ING AYE, CHAIRMEIN HARItIS DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSZY.
Ms. Hughes asked Mro Treuenfels if his conanission had any sub-committe�s, besides the
Fine Ar�s of Fridley Committeeo
Mr, Treuenfels replied no and said he believed even the Fine Arts Committee had
i� expired.
Ms. Huphes said she could see the KKKK (Koping �aith Kids from Kradle to Y.indergarten)
program becoming a city program and wondered where that program should be housed.
Whether it was something to be handled undex Human Resources or Parks and Recreation
and her commission. • .
Mro Treuenfels said presently the KKKK was under Commun.ity Education a.nd received
housing, utilities and janitorial expen:�es i'rom thezna Tha Human Resources had
approved a matching grant of up to $1500 for KKKK.
Mr. Boardman pointed out the Planning Couunission had deleted any funds for KKI� at
their last meeting and Human Resources were now reconunending a matching grant af
$1500.
Mso Hughes asked if the $3100 asked fox by KKKK was their total budget besides whaC
they receive f•rom Cotmnuni�ty Education.
Mro Treuenfels said yes.
Ms. Hughes commented that this loolced like it would be a city pxogram because of lack
ot school funding. She questioned if it was appropria�te to be funding completely such
an organization since there has been no proof of need by the co�nunity. She did not
approve of the school shi�ting the responsibility of funding and if it was funded by
the city, which department will supervise ite She felt funding should be availabel
�; at least for the tirst year. .
Mro Harris said he partially agreed with Ms. Hughes, in that there could be some
co�miunity need for the progxam, but could not see it as a city program. One problem
P_I.ANNING COMMISSION MEETING, NOVII�ER 28, 1979 PAGE 4
he could•see with the school district funding was because there was more than 1 �
school district involved and it would be unfair to run a city-wide program with ��
only 1 district funding it. He felt there should be a coordin�ting body so that
all the diatricts could p4rticipate in a city program.
Mr. Treuenfels said the KK1QC intent was not entirely a.recreation program, but it was
not wholly educational either.
Mr. Boardman said the question was not who should run or supporC the program, but
was it a corporation similar to SACA or Sr. Citizen's Outreach that was requesting
funds for operation. We have to decide if this was a legitimate organization �nd if
it was providing services to the City of Fridley's residents and therefore eligible
for funding by the city. We should question, should the city be putting money into
this organization not who will operate it.
Mx. Treuenfels said he liked �hat approach. This oxganization was similar to_SACA
because they both receive housing and outside funding and provide some social service
to the residents. •
Ms. Hughes said she has to agree with that, however KKKK was getting their maj.or
source of funding from the city. She also pointed out the recreation program does
support groups that are not entixely recreation, but also educational and into the
culture areas. If I�KK was to be in the recreational�ea, do they have some type
of review system"simila� to othex programs that are under recreati�n fundi.ng (i.e.
hockey). �
Mxe Harris said it seems KKIZK was a social service and do we have someone to handle n
social selcvices and should the city be getting into that area.
Mr. Boarclman pointed out SACA was also a social service that was providing a needed
service to Fridley residents and we fund them. These agencies have to have places
to go in order to get their funding, and the city was one of the sou-rces. We have
to.decide if we feel•these services are valid and do we want t� use taxpayer's
money to help fund them. The city does have some responsibility to help provide
social services for the residents.
Mr. Harris thought the KKKIZ program should be undex Human Resources.
Ms. Hughes asked if there was statf personnel to supervise this program.
Mr. Boardman replied a new person had been hired and she would be introduced later
in the evening. He explained shz would be handling this type of work.
Mr. Harris felt Human Resources should be riding herd on the agencies. that receive
funds from the city.
Mr. Boaxdman stated not necessarily riding herd, but the Human Resource Commission
will be setting the criteria when requests for funds come in. They will be able to
decide who get the funds and how much they receive.
Mre Harris asked if it was in the relm of the city's responsibility to keep track of
how the funds were spent within each fiscal year. He felt an annual rep�rt by the
agencies should be brought in each year. . ��1
PLANNING COMMISSION MEET7NG NOVE�'IBER 28 1979 PAGE 5
� Mr. Boar�.man replied he agreed an annual report should be submitted, expecially if
� they ask for funding each year. We may not agree with how the mor�ey was spent, but
_�"1 at least we would know what happened tio it. �
Mr. Treuenfel.s said there were 2 points of consideration. One, do the agencies give
an account for the money received each year? The general consensus was that they
should. Second, if they come back for more funcling, should we use their past records
of spenditures to detexmine new fur�ding? The Commission said definetly that should
be part of the criteria when deciding on the fund requests.
Ms. Schnabel felt staff personnel should go to each agency to familiarize themselves
w ith that agency.
Mr. Boardman replied that would take a lot of time and he does not have the staff
to do that,
Mso Schnabel said she would be very disappointed in Mro Boardman and his staff if it
was not at least recon¢nended to staff to use some soxt of follow up on the agencies.
Mro Boardman said it was a:good idea and would try to have his department follow
up on the agencies that receive fundso
Ms, Iiughes suggested members from Human Resources and Planning Commission could also
do some sort of follow up on the agencies. She q_uestioned if KKi� was supporting them-
selves enough by charging only $10 pex family per year ($700 yearly approxima,tely
for membership fees).
� Mr. Oquist said �he one thing that bothered him about supporting KKKK was that the
$1500 would only be reaching 70 families, while the $1000 alloted to SACA would be
reachin,g many, many more people. The percentage of people helped per dollar seemed
very low for KKKIC.
Mr. Treuenfels said percentage of use was one of the criterias he suggested to be
used by Human Resources. •
Ms. Schnah�l asked if other agencies, such as churches, provided a si.milar program
to KKi�Z,
Mr. Treuenfels said there use to be one church in Fridley that had the same service.
Mro Harris said years ago many of our social services were i�andled by the churches.
Now, it seems, it was not one of the main concerns of the churches. He felt there
should be a central commit�ee that would coordinata these types of services between
the churches, schools and city so the�e was no overlap of services,
Ms. Schnabel said some peoply may not wan� the church overtones if a social service was
handled by the church alone, Therefore, a central committee may be needed to coordinate
such services.
Ms. Hughes said she felt the KKKK, program, because it came out of community schooling,
has not looked for other ways to fund themselvese Other groups do and KKKK should
be able to do the same. She liked �he idea of KKKK raising matching funds in order
� to receive funds from the city.
PI.ANNING COMMISSION MEETING �NOVEMBER 28. 1979 PAGE 6
MOTION by Ms. Hughes, seconded by Mre Treuenfels to concur with Human Resources �--�
Co�nission m reco�nend to City Council that the City fund up to $1500 to KI�, �
contingent upon KKKK obtaining matching funds from another source.
Ms. Schnabei. said she was opposed to the motion for 2 reasons. One, the other�
agencies only received $1000 and felt KKKK should not get 50% more in funds. �o, �
the loTa percentage of families reached by KKKK as compared to other social services
did not seem to warrant as much �unding. �'
MOTION by Ms. Schnabel, seconded by Mr. Hora to amend the orginal motion by Ms.
liughes to reduce the funds for HI� from $1500 to $1000,
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTTNG AYE, CHAIRMAN �i4112RIS DECLARED THE MOTION C ARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Oquist pointed out Human Resources did not have a�ime limit on how long HIZKK
had to raise their $1500. He wanted a start and stop time stipulated on the motion.
Ms. Schnabel said the Planning Commission on page 13 of their last meeting, stated
the cutoff date would be July 1, 1980.
Mr. Boardman said the time period should be for Ki�'s fiscal operating �year or else
when Council approves the funding, the ti.me period w ould start then and end July
1, 1980, �
Mx�. Harris asked if the membership fee c�as to be used towards the $1500 Kt�K was re�^
quired to raise, He felt the u►atching funds should be exclusive of inembership fezs.
Mr. Hora questioned his reasoning.
Mr. Oquist stated it would be to KKKIZ`s advaxitage to raise the additional $1500
because it could give them a possible $3700�to wvrk with and not just $3000.
Mso Hughes stated they are not treating KY.KK°s request any different by requiring
matching �unds then the requests by SACE; or Sro Citizen's Outreach. Thase agencies
had shown they have other sources of funding available to them and have used them.
MOTION by Mr. Oquist, sec�nded by Mr. Treuenfels to amend the original. motion by
Ms. Hughes to include a start ti.me for KKKK to raise matching funds to be in effect
when Council approved the $1000 matcning f�nd and to stop on Ju1y 1, 1980. The
matching funds raised by KKKK will be exclusinve of the membership fees,
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRM�IV H�4I'.RIS DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Harris asked for a vote on the original motion, which now includes a starC and
stop time, $1,^00 matching funds and membership dues may notc be used towards the
matching funds raised by KICI�'K.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN HA�RIS DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
4. RECEIVE HOt1SING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTtiQRITY MINUT�S : NOVEMBER 8, 1979 : �
Pr�ANNINC CONIMISSION MEETING NOVI�IBER 28 1979 PAGE 7
f
M�TION by Ms. Hughes, seconded. by Mr. Treuenfels to receive the Housing and Redevelop-
~� ment Authority minutes of No�:ember 8, 1979.
Mr. Boardman said these minutes were for their information only.
Mr. Harris asked to have 1'lanning Commission see the Center City perspective plan
for�Cheir information only.
UPON A VOiCE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN HAI2fiIS DECLARED �LE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY. �
5. RECEIVE COM�IUNI7.'Y DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION MINUTES; NOVEI�ER 13 1979:
MOTION by Mx. Oquist, seconded by Ms. Schnabel to receive the Community Development
minutes of November 13, 1979.
Mr. Oquist pointed out the conversation and motion on rental conversion propertq.
He stated they have made a recoumnendation that an ordinance be drawn up �io handle
this situation, and gave a list of some things that should be in or handled by
that ordinance.
_ Mr, Boardman said Mr. Herrick was presently looking at the ordinance that was adopted
by Minneapolis. .Council was looking at the idea of controlling the rental property
conversion through zoning on the basis that the city issues a permit to an apartment
complex.on fihe condition that there be one owner per apartment and not a muTti-owner
situation. Therefore no� allowing the condominium concep� of multi-ownerships. This
� would allow a co-operative ownership of the apa�-tments.
� Msc. Iiarris said ha� lin�. i� through zoning did not seem feasible to him. Zoning
was set up to control density and the densi�:y would not be changing it the units
were rented or individually �wned.
Mr. Boardman caas not sure how that concept would work either a.nd that way one of
t he reasons for Mra Herrick looking at the ordinancee The other way of controlling
would be through special use permits and he felt that was stretching �he boundaries
of a special use pe rmit.
Pir. Oquist said ii was inevitable that we would have conuersions someday and felt safe-
guards £or the rentexs and buyers should be drawn up now.
Mr. Harr.is f.elt an additional stipulation to Community Development's motion should be
the requirement that any building must be brought up to code before converted.
Ms. Schnabel said an ordinance should also be fair to the presenfi� owner. If the
owner desires to sell, finding a single buyer may be difficult in today's marlcet. If
a buyer w�.s found, they many have to increase rent to cover the high intexst rates
and repairs required for a sale. That could evantually mean losing renters because
of high rent costs. Therefore, the only way to get the ocaner's money out of the
building would be to convert it. An ordinance should not be written to penalize the
o�aner .
� Mx. Oquist said their recommendations were meant to be iair to the present people in
the building and the buyer<
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. NOVEMBER 28. 1979 PA�E 8'
Ms. Schna�el said she had heard that some cil-ies may require that at least 51%. of �
the building must be sold in a certain limit before it was allowed to be converted.
She was not sure if it was a city requirement of 51% or an agreement between the ��
owner and buyer. She felt this could possibly be part of the ordinance.
Mr, Boardman did noC think it would be wise for the city to put a time limit in.the
ordinance. He felt �hat area should be covered in the purchase agreemento
Mr. Harris said the intent of the ordinance should be to ensure the health, safety
and general welfare of the occupants of the building. �'hat was the city's main
responsibility.
Mso Hughes said we should not try to stop the conversion of rental properties, but,
we should make sure there will be rental property available for tfie displaced persons
from a conversion building. ��
Mro Boardman said the city has to help in that area. It was � metropolitan problem
and each city has to do something to help solve the problem. �
Mr. Harris stated this was an area th.at could be coordinated by the Metro Council.
M.�co Boardman replied they do have a housing opportunity plan and all cities must comply
with that plan. He said the City Council does want to control the sale of condos, but
was not sure legally if they could do so b�cause it was private property. Iie was
waiting for Mr. Herrick's opinion on that.
Mr. Oquis�C asked if Planning Commission wished to do any�hing with Community Develop-
me.nt's recommendation besides �dding the following stipulations to their inconclusiv��
list:
1, Building must be brought up to code before converted,
� 2o Check into the feasibility of building p'resale of not less then
51% before conver5ion.
The commission felt Mr. Herrick's opinioi: should be looked at first before they
take any action.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN HARRIS IlECT.ARFTI � MOTION CA,RRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
6 o RECENE APPEALS COMMTSSION PIINUTES : NOVFT�IBER 13. 1979 :
MOTION by Ms. Schnabei, seconded by Mro Treuenfels to receive the Appeals Commission
minutes oi : DTavember 13, 1979.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN HARRIS DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY, .
7. CONTINUED : PROPOSED CHANGES TO C�IAPTEF. 205 . 7.OIVING :
MOTION by Mr. Treuenfels, seconded by Mr. Oquisic t� continue the discussion on �1
Pxoposed Changes to Chapter 205. Zoning un�il revisi�ns are made by staff. ��
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTLNG AYE, CHAIr.MElN I3AttRiS DECLAR.ED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLYa '
` PLANNING CO1?I�tISSION MEET�IG NOV]:Mi3ER _28, 1979 PAGE 9
8. OTH�R BUSINESS:
�� MQTION by Mr. Oquist, seconded by Mr. Treuenfels to receive the letter from Burlington
�
Northern regarding the Blain/Coon Rapids development.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHA7.RMAN Ht1RRIS DECLAF.ED THE MOTION CARRIED•
UNANIMOUSLY. '
Mrm 1-Iarris asked to have this letter passed on•to CiCy Cauncil. (See atiachment
�l).
Mr. Boardman introduced Mary Cayan as the new Human Services Assistant to the
Planning Commissiono Mro Boardman said some of Ms. Cayan's duties would include
working with the social service.agencies in the city.
Mr, Harris said he went to the Council meeting to find out about the so called
Environmental Impact Fee (see November 7, 1979 minutes). When he approached the
Council they knew nothing about the fee and when he approached Mr, Qureshi there was
suddenly no such feeo
Mre Oquist asked what happened t� the money that had been collected for this non-
existing fee.
Mre Harris said if any fees were collectecl they should be put into the Park's Capital
Improvement Fund and notin a slush fund to buy another dump truck or fire engine.
Mra Boardman said he thougli what Mr. Qureshi �aas trying to get at was setting up a
park fee that could lceep up with the costs involved to provide park facilities. Uur
present system has a set fee and that does riot reflect on cne amount of Iand��involved.
Our State law does alloca a fee based on l0a o£ law Zand value. ---
Mre Harris said those fees should be then dedicated as park capital improvements.
Msa Hughes said as fa� as the Park Commission knew, the funds for capiial improvements
axe general fund allocationso It was a standard set fee and has no reflection of how
much money was collected by the city for park fees. They could could have collected
from $500 to $5000 and the conmission would still receive the same amount of money.
There has been no accounting af the fees collected. .
Mxo Oquist said if there was any money collected for the Enviroxu�ental Development
Fee, and since it was collected under false preter�se, it should be xeturned to the
prope�ty owner or to the person that paid L-he fee.
MOTION by Mre Oquist, seconded by Mr. TreueniEls to authorize Council to retuxn any
unauttiorized Environmental Development Fees to the party tha� paid the fee because
such £ees were c.ollected under false pretense, and not to collect any iurther fees
� under the same conditions. _
0
PLANNING CGMMISSION MEETING, NOVEMEER 28, 1979 PAG� i0
UPON A VO'IC� VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN ITARRIS DECLARED THE MOTION CAItL�IED
UNANIMOUSLY . r"``"
Ms. flughes felt the Planning Commission should commer.d Chairman Haxxis for going to
Council and getting answer�s on this fee. The oth.er n►embexs of the commission concuxred
with the commendation. '
ADJOURNMENT
MOTION_by Mr. Oquist, seconded by Mr. Treuenfels to adjourn the Planning Commission
meeting of Naa�;ember 28, 1979.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRMAN HARRIS DECLARED THE MEETING ADJOURNED
AT 10:10 P,M.
Respectfully submittecl,
Paula Long, eco di Secre�ary
�