PL 11/28/1984 - 30628•'.+
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLAF�NING CONpMISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28. 1984
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairwoman Schnabel called the November 28, 1984, Planning Conmission meeting to
order at 7:32 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Ms. Schnabel, Mr. Oquist, Ms. Gabel, Mr. Minton, Mr. Nielsen,
Mr. Saba
Menbers Absent: Mr. Kondrick
Otiiers Present: Jim Robinson, Planning Coordinator
See attached list
APPkdVAL OF OCTOBER 17, 1984, PLAWNING CON�IISSION MINUTES:
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n MO:ION BY MR. OQUIST� SECONDED BY MR. SABA, TO APPROVE TilE OCT. 17, I9B9, PLANNING
COIlMISSION MINUTES AS WRITTEN.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CXAI�J0INAN SCNNABEL DECLARED THE MOTIDN CARRIED
UNANIISOUSLI'.
1. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP �84-22, UNITY MEDICAL
, er ec Zon .., ,, o t e r� ey �ty Code,
o a ow e cons ruc ion of an addition to Unity Hospital, approximately
43,000 square feet, located on Parcel 600, in the North Half of Section 11,
the same being 550 Osborne Road N.E.
1NOTION BY MR. SABA� SECONDED BY MR. l�fINZbN� TO OPEN TXE PUBLIC HEARING
ON SP N89-22, BY UNITY MEDICAL CENTER.
UPON A VOICE Vt�TE, ALL VOTING AYE, CXAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECLARED THE
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 7:33 P.M.
` Mr. Robinson stated the Unity Hospital complex was located on Osborne Road
just east of Highway 47. Not too many months ago, Unity Hospital had proposed
the construction of a 250-stall parking lot on the west end of the property.
Unity was granted a special use permit with stipulations. Now, Unity is fore-
seeing a possible delay in the construction of the 250-stall parking lot.
- Mr. Robinson stated this proposal was for a special use permit for a 43,000
� sq. ft. out patient emergency and out-patient surgery addition to the east end
of the hospital. The addition is located per code. The main concern Staff has
'-- is that the originally planned parking stalls be constructed prior to the
completion of this addition. There will be a time during construction when the
hospital will be short 50-60 stalls, but they have plans to reallocate some of
the existing spaces to alleviate this problem.
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PLANNII�G COMMISSIOW MEETING. NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 2
Mr. Robinson stated the City has worked extensively with Unity Hospital on
landscaping, drainage, and signage for the facility. Staff feels these areas
have been covered adequately, and that this will be a good development.
Mr. Robinson stated Staff was recomnending the following stipulations:
1. Parking lot expansion on the west end of the property to be completed
with related stipulations prior to the completion of the out-patient
building project
2. Hospital will take the necessary steps to ensure adequate parking
during construction, i.e., reallocation of spaces.
3. Additional landscaping to be provided on Madison St.
4. Provide the City with a$10,000 performance bond
Mr. Jim Faulwell, Vice President of Planning and Marketing for the Unity
Medica] Center, explained the plan for how the parking spaces would be reallo-
cated during the construction period. They did not anticipate any major
problems with parking during that time. �
Mr. Robinson stated the only other issue was one of road design. Presently, --
Madison Street is four lanes, but as it nears the proposed hospital ambulance
entrance, it tapers to two lanes. The road should probably be wideaed so that
ambulances can turn without cor�petinq with other traffic on the road. It would_
be in the hospital's best interest to have it widened.
Mr. Faulwell stated they would be willing to look at that.
Mr. 1�11nton asked if Unity Nospital was in agreement with the stipulations
recomnended by staff.
Mr. Faulwell stated they were in agreement with these stipulations.
Mr. Faulwell stated they anticipate March 1, 1986, for completion of the
addition. They have agreed that the proposed parking lot will be completed
by August 1985.
Ms. Schnabe] asked when Unity planned to complete the reconfiguration of the
parking lot in front on Osborne.
Mr. Faulwell stated they will probably do all the parking changes at approxi-
•mately the same time.
liOTION BY MR. lIIN1�ON, SECONDED BY 1►Qt. SABA, TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC BEARING ON
3p p84-Z2, UNITY XEDICAL CENTER, BY JOHN 11AINES.
UPON A VOICE Vt�TE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECLARED THE PUBLIC
HEARING CLOSED AT 7:50 P.Pi.
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PLA�JNING COM�IISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 3
MOTION BY MR. MINTON, SECONDED BY 1�. OQUIST, TO RECOI•fMEND R+O CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE P�RMIT, SP 1184-22� UNITY 1�lEDICAL
CENTER, BY JOHN fIAINES� PER SECTION 205.07.1� 3, B, OF THE FRIDLEY CITY CODE,
1b ALLOW TXE CONSTRUCTION OF AN ADDITION TO UNITY XOSPITAL, APPROXIMATELY
43,000 SQUARE FEET, LOCATED ON PARCEL 600, IN THE NORTH XALF OF SECTION 11,
TflE SAME BEING 550 0.SBORNE ROAD N.E., WSTN TXE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS:
1. PARKING LOT EXPANSION ON THE WEST END OF THE PROPERTY T�O BE
COMPLETED WITX RELATED STIPULATId1►S B� A�G�ST 31, 1985.
2. HOSPITAL WILL TAKE TXE NECESSARY STEPS TO ENSURE ADEpUATE PARKING
DURING CONSTRUCTION, I.E., REALIACATION OF SPACES.
3. ADDITIDNAL LANDSCAPING T�D BE PROVIDED ON 1NADISON ST.
4. PROVIDE THE CITY WITH A$10,000 PERFORMANCE BO1lD.
5. MADISON ST. BE WIDENED TO T1'IE AMBULANCE ENTRANCE.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CNAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECLARED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMDUSLY.
Ms. Schnabe'. stated this item would go to City Council on December 17.
� 2. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #84-23, CHAMPION AUTO
GL S KR S: Per Section 05. .,, , of t e Fri ey City Co e to
a ow a repair garage in conjunction with a retail business on Lot 18,
Block 5, Rice Creek Plaza South Addition, the same being 6528 University
Avenue N.E, in Holly Center.
MOTION BY MR. OQUIST, SECONDED BY MR. NIEISEN, TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING ON
SP 1/89-23, CXAMPION AUTO, BY DDUGLAS KRASKA.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECLARED TN£ PUBLIC
AEARING OPEN AT 7:52 P.M.
Mr. Robinson stated this proposal involved a business within the Holly Center.
Holly Center is zoned C-3 (general shopping) and is surrounded by residential,
single family on the north and R-3 on the west. This proposal was for a repair
garage facility to be located in the rear of the complex adjacent and behind
Champion Auto Store. The garage door entrance would be to the north.
Mr. Robinson stated Staff was recomnending the following stipulations:
1. Hours of operation to be compatible with neighborhood setting--
to be determined.
- 2. Any hazardous waste be managed in a manner consistent with State Law.
%''"'1 3. No outside storage be allowed
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Mr. Mike Scott of Jackson, Scott, & Associates, stated he was the Manager and
Leasing Agent for Holly Shopping Center. What they are proposing to do is
lease the space that was occupied by House of Large Sizes for office purposes
to Champion Auto for a service center in conjunction with the retail store.
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PLANNING COMMISSION FIEETING, NOVEMBER 28. 1984 PAGE 4
Mr. Scott stated this space is on the north side of the shopping center and
comprises about 4,000 sq. ft. that would incorporate three overhead garage
doors for public access to cars. They can service up to six cars in this
facility. There will be no overnight storage, The traffic will essentially
be the traffic of the customer driving into the garage for service and the
customer may wait for the car in one of the offices they will have built there.
There may be an additional sign on the west end of the shopping center to
direct people to the service entrance.
Mr. Douglas Kraska stated that in the store he has now, there is a door that
leads into the shop so generally the customer will be parking on the side or
in front of the building, will come in and get the service order written, and
then the mechanic will drive the car around to the back of the building. After
the car is serviced, it will be parked along the side of the building. He
stated they will be doing light repair such as starters, oil changes, etc.
There will be no heavy work such as tearing down engines. The cars will be in
and out on the same day.
Ms. Schnabel asked where the cars would be parked for people who are leaving
their cars for the day while the work is being done.
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Mr. Kraska stated the cars will be parked on the west side of the building
where there are presently parking spaces.
Ms. Schnabel asked about signage on the north side where the bays and the
overhead garage doors are located.
Mr. Kraska stated they were thinking of using non-illuminated letters that
are attached to the building to show that this was the entrance to the service
center. The letters for the sign are generally about one foot high. The sign
would say: Cliampion Auto Service Center.
Mr. Oquist asked if there was any need for a firewall.
Mr. Robinson stated those questions have been addressed and worked out with
the Building Inspector.
Ms. Gabel asked where the cars would be roadtested.
Mr. Kraska stated most of the repairs will not require roadtesting. However,
there might be same roadtesting, and they would probably use University Ave.
Ms. Schnabel asked what hours they anticipated to have the service center open.
Mr. Kraska stated the regular Champion Auto Store hours are 8:30 - 9:00 Monday
through Friday, 8:30 - 6:00 on Saturday, and 10:00 - 5:00 on Sunday. On week- ,—�
nights the shop is generally shut down by 8:00 because there is some cleanup
that needs to be done.
Ms. Schnabel asked Mr. Kraska if he had any experience in thistype of business
in another location.
Mr. Kraska stated he did.
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PLANNIWG CONaIISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 5
Mr. Oquist asked if there was any additional lighting that would be needed
in the rear of the building.
Mr. Kraska stated the existing lighting was adequate.
Mr. Robinson stated was�always some concern with noise levels v�ith this type of
operation.
Mr. Kraska stated there really shouldn't be much noise noticeable from out-
side the building. They will be operating with their doors closed. The
nature of their repair work usually does not create a lot of noise.
Ms. Schnabel asked if there were any concerns from people in the audience.
Mr. Stanley Peterson stated he was representing his mother� Signe Peterson,
who lived at 240 - 67th Ave. N.E. He stated there is going to be a noise
impact to the neighborhood. The service doors will be open in the sumnertime.
There will be times when tires are screeching. Some mechanics drive cars
quietly and some do not. He stated he worked in a garage so he knew what it
was like. Right now the area behind the shopping center is relatively quiet.
�`� If they will be doing tune-ups, the cars will have to be test driven so there
will be a lot of driving around. He felt the Planning Comnission should give
this proposal a little more consideration.
Mr. Kraska stated that with the modern equipment and diagnostics, there was
very little roadtesting of vehicles.
Mr. Scott stated that Mr. Kraska will be controlting the employees who will
be driving the cars, test driving, or working on the cars. Mr. Kraska does
have that type of control.
Mr. Oquist stated the City does have a noise ordinance that would control the
noise level at the property line if noise became a problem.
Mr. Peterson stated he would also be concerned about the exhaust coming out
of the pipe in the building, especially in the wintertime.
Ms. Schnabel asked how many mechanics would be working on a day shift.
Mr. Kraska stated he would have two full-time mechanics during the day and
two part-time mechanics at night. To start with, he will only be using two
bays and will use the other bays for storage.
Mr. Kraska stated that a lot of the work done will be as a service to the
- Champion Auto Store customers. When a customer buys parts, there is a facility
� to install those parts.
Ms. Schnabel stated to Mr. Peterson that the Planning Comnission did understand
his concerns. The Planning Cortunission was also concerned about noise. If
the noise should ever become a problem, he should let the City know so the
noise level could be monitored.
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PLANNI��G CONAIISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 6
MOTION BY l�t. SABA, SECONDED BY MR. MINTON, 1�0 CLOSE TXE PUBLIC AEARING ON
SP a84--23, CfIAMPION AUTO, BY DOUGLAS KRASIU4.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CXAIRWOMAIV SCHNABEL �ECLARED THE PUBLIC
BEARING CLQSED AT 8:18 P.M.
MOTION BY 1►!R. SABA, SECONDED BY 1�II2. OQUIST, TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL THE
APPROVAL OF A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT� SP N84-23, CHAI�ION AUZ�O, BY
DIDUGLAS KRASKA, PER SECTION 205.I5.1� 3, D, OF TXE FItIDLEY CITY CODE TO ALLOW
A REPAIR GARAGE IN CONJUNCTION WITH A RETAIL BUSINESS ON LOT 18� BLOCK 5,
RICE CREEK PLAZA SOUTH ADDITION� TNE SAME BEING 6528 UNIVERISTY AVENUE N.E.
ZN HOLLY CENTER, WITH THE FbLLOWING STIPULATIONS:
1. TNE HOURS OF OPERATIDN BE THE S.9ME AS STORE AOURS.
2. ANY XAZARDOUS WASTE BE MANAGED IN A MANNER CONSISTENT WITH STATE LAW.
3. NO OUTSIDE STORAGE BE ALLOWED.
UPON A VOICE VOTE� SCHNABEL� OQUIST� 1HINTON, NIELSEN� AND SABA VOTING AYE,
GABEL ABSTAINING, CHAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECLARED TXE MOTION CARRIED.
3. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP �84-24, BY ROBERT SCHROER:
Per Sect�on .., o e ri ey ign r inance, to a ow an automatic �"�
changeable sign on Lot 1, Block 1, East Ranch Estates, the same being Bob's
Produce Ranch at 7620 Uriversity Avenue N.E.
MOTIQN BY J►LS. GASEL, SECONDED BY J�2. NIELSEN� TO OPEN THE PUBLIC XEARING ON
SP I189-29 BY ROBERT SCHROER.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CNAIRWOI�lA1V SCHNABEL DECLARED TXE PUBLIC
XEARING OPEN AT 8:20 P.M.
Mr. Robinson stated this property was located on Osborne Road off University
Avenue. The property was zoned G-3 and was surrounded by other comnercial
properties. He stated the proposal was to replace the existing sign with a
sign quite a bit smaller--from about 300 sq. ft. to 165 sq. ft. The existing
sign has several variances which were approved in 1972. Those variances were
for the height from 25 ft. to 28'z ft., from 100 sq. ft. in area to 276 sq. ft.,
and to allow a changeable message board.
Mr. Robinson stated the new sign has the distinction of having an electronic
message which necessitates the special use permit, but the message cannot
change more frequently than once every 15 minutes and cannot move.
Mr. Robinson stated that regarding the variances that were approved in 1972,
this was discussed by the Staff, and it was Staff's concensus that the variances
were carried over since the sign was being reduced in size.
Ms. Gabel stated that was not true. The variances started all over again with
a new sign. She would disagree with the interpretation of the sign ordinance
by the Staff.
Ms. Schnabel stated she believed Ms. Gabel was correct.
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PLANNING COM�4ISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 19g4 PAGE 7
Mr. Robinson stated they would research the sign ordinance further before
the City Council meeting.
Mr. Robinson stated Staff was recommending the following stipulations:
1. Curb all hard surfaced areas with 6 inch poured concrete curb,
repair or replace damaged curbing.
2. Provide a hard surface for all areas being used by vehicles
3. Remove all refuse and debris (fire hazard) from the north side
of the building,
° 4.° Provide a 5 ft. setback from the building for parking areas.
5.
6.
Provide more landscaping, especially along Osborne.
Reduce vehicle entrance to 32 ft, maximum width.
7. Remove all other advertising signs from Water Works right of way
and parking lot.
8. Remove the Meat Market wall sign. (no permit issued for it)
9.
10.
Message shall not change more than once every 15 minutes minimum.
Provide the City a$10,000 performance bond.
11. All unauthorized signs and refuse to be removed prior to the
issuance of pending sign permit, if granted. Other improvements
to be done by June 1985.
Mr. Schroer stated �2 referred to the back area. It was not part of East
Ranch Estates First Addition, so it w�s really not part of this complex.
It was used for overflow parking. He stated this area will probably be
developed within a year or so, and he would hate to blacktop it and then
have to tear out the blacktop wiien the area is developed.
Mr. Schroer stated that regarding #4, if he provided a 5 ft, setback from
the building for parking areas, he would not meet the parking requirements.
The City approved the parking close to the building 15 years ago, and now
they want to change it.
Mr. Schroer stated that regarding #5, he has had trouble landscaping along
' Osborne because of the St. Paul Waterworks. He also had a real problem with
screening parking lots.
Mr. Schroer stated that regarding #1, curbing all hard surfaced areas with
6 inch poured concrete curb, a couple of years ago, the County and the City
wanted to widen the service road and move the curbing back, so he couldn't
put the curbing in at that time. He was even willing to give the City and
County 20 ft. of his property to get another right hand turn lane onto
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, lgg4 �
PAGE 8
Osborne. Then� the County and the City dropped the idea of widening the
road. He stated all the water drains to the northern part of the property
underneath the sign area. If he put in curbing, it would retain the water.
Mr. Schroer stated that Frank's Nursery will be leaving in a year� and he
will be taking over the whole building. He stated he has plans for extensive
remodeling of the building. One of the first steps is to replace the sign.
He asked why the City was trying to make it so hard for businesses.
Mr. Robinson sted we seek similar improvements of all businesses. When a
business comes in for a special use permit, they try to upgrade the property
to today's code. This was the reason for all these stipulations.
Ms. Schnabel stated that what Mr. Robinson said was true. It was consistent
with what they have been doing for everyone who comes in for a special use
permit. They are trying to bring properties into code.
Ms. Schnabel stated that maybe the City should get a letter from St. Paul
Waterworks stating St. Paul Waterworks has no problem with landscaping along
Osborne Road.
Mr. Robinson stated maybe the City should see Mr. Schroer's long range plans. ^
Mr. Schroer stated the City could review the plans as soon as they are ready.
Mr. Robinson stated that, in light of the future remodeling of the building -
and more development to the north, maybe stipulations 1, 2, 4, and 6 should �
be incorporated into an overall plan for review by the Comnission on June 1,
1985. Stipulation 5 should be accomplished by June 1, 1985, and stipulations
3, 1, 8. 9, 10. and 11 should remain the same.
MOTIDN B1' ELS. GABEL, SECONDED BY MR. OQUIST, TO CLOSE TNE PUBLIC HEARING
ON SP i184-2� BY ROBERT SCHROER.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CXAIRW01rb�1N SCXNABEL DECLARED THE pUBLIC
NEARING CLOISED AT 9:20 P.M.
MO� TION BY 1►!R. PlINTON, SECONDED BY MR. OpUIST, TO RECOIIMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF A REpUEST �R A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP f184-24, BY ROBERT SCHROER,
PER SECTION ?14.07.1� OF THE FRIDLEY SIGN ORDINANCE, TO ALLpW AIV AUTOMATIC
CNANGEABLE SIGN ON LOT 1� BLOCK 1, EAST RANCH ESTATES, TXE SAME BEING BOB'S
PRODUCE RANCH AT 7620 UNIVERSITY AVENUE N.E. � WITH TXE FOLIAWING CONDITIOlJS:
T7YE FOLIAWING STIPULATIONS BE ENFORCED AT TXZS TIME;
1. RElNOVE AND 1NAINTriIN ALL REFUSE AND DEBRIS (FIRE XAZARDJ FROM THE
NORTH SIDE pF THE BUILDING.
2. REMOVE ALL OTHER AD[�ERTISING SIGNS FROM WATERWORKS RIGXT OF w�Y
AIVD P��'u(ZNG LOT. !^
3. REMOVE THE 1NEAT MARKET WALL SZGN (NO PERMIT ISSUED FOR IT) . '�
4. lyESSAGE SXALL NOT CXANGE MORE TNAN ONCE EVERY 15 MINUTES MIlJIIJUM.
MESSAGE SXALL BE NON-!�lOVING DURING 15 MINUTE INZ'ERVAL.
5. PROVIDE THE CITY WITX A 510,000 PERFORMANCE 90P7D.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 9
TNE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS BE INCORPORATED INTO A PLAN FOR REVIEW
BY TXE PLAIVNING COMMISSION BY JUNE I, Z985:
1. CURB ALL HARD SURFACED AREAS idITX A 6 INCX POURED CONCRETE CURB,
REPAIR OR REPZACE DAMAGED CURBING.
2. PROVIDE A XARD SURFACE FOR ALL AREAS BEING USED BY VEHICLES.
3. PROVIDE A 5 FT. SETBACK FROM THE BUILDING FOR PARKING AREAS.
4. REDUCE VEXICZE ENTRANCE TO 32 FT MAXIMUM WIDTX.
THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION TO BE COI�LETED BY JUNE 1, 1985;
1. PROVIDE 1NORE LANDSCAPING� ESPECIALLY ALONG OSBORNE.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTSNG AYE, CHAIRWOMAN SCXNABEL DECLARED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Ms. Schnabel stated there was still the question of whether or not this was a
replacement of the sign and thence, in terms of the Sign Ordinance. would
require a variance. Section 214.13 of the Sign Ordinance should be reviewed
again by Staff. She would feel comfortable leaving this decision up to Staff.
4. VACATION REQUEST: SAV #,84-06, BY PATRICIA AND MARY KUTA: Vacate 67th Avenue
� �jacent to ots an �b�Tock�, �la c Grove i ti on, along wi th vacated
1/2 alley, to be used for open area at 6689 Anoka Street N.E.
Mr. Robinson stated this was a single family house located off a cul-de-sac
bounded by 67th Ave, on the north and Anoka St, on the east. The proposal was
to vacate 67th Ave, fror� Anoka St, to the vacated alley and to utilize the
property as open space. A similar proposal came before the Planning Commission
last spring for the property directly to the west, and that portion of 67th
Ave, was successfully vacated.
Mr. Robinson stated Staff had no problems with this vacation request. The
only stipulation was that a utility easement be r.etained within the area for
a water line. The City will draw that up and notorize it at City Hall. He
stated the ordinance shoii;d also be recorded at the County, and the petitioners
will need a new survey.
MOTION BY MR. SABA, SECONDED BY MR. OQUIST, TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF VACATION REQUEST, SAV �184-06, BY PATRICK AND MARY KUTA, TO
VACATE 6 7TX AVENUE N. E. ADJACENT TO LOTS 29 AND 30 , BLOCIC 2, OAK GROVE
ADDITION, ALONG WITX VACATED 1/2 ALZ�EY, TO BE USED FOR OPEN AREA AT 6689
ANOKA STREET N.E., WITH THE F�LLOWING STIPULATIONS.
1. A UTILS3'Y EASEMENT BE RETAINED IN THE VACATED PORTION.
2. TXE ORDINANCE BE RECORDED AT THE COUNTY.
UPON.A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRWOMAIV SCHNABEL DECI.ARED THE MOTIDN
� CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 10
5. DISCUSSION OF AN ORDINANCE RECODIFYING THE FRIDLEY CITY CODE BY ADOPTING A
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Mr. Robinson stated that in 1982 State Legislature passed a statute requiring
surface water management of all land in the metro area. This legislation
formulated the Six Cities Watershed Management Urganization which together
with the Rice Creek Watershed 3istrict� encompassed the surface water manage-
ment for all of Fridley. The intent of this legislation is to manage the
surface water quality and quantity of run-off.
Mr. Robinson stated the City's storm water system is not complete, but much
of that which has been implaced is 20 years�old. Accordingly, the required
maintenance of the storm water system will increase in the years ahead.
Mr. Robinson stated cities can set up their own utility companies for storm
water, and that is what is being proposed in this ordinance. He stated the City
of Roseville established a storm water drainage utility this year. Every devel-
opment in the City of Fridley would have a storm water utility fee tacked onto
its water bill and the fee would be paid quarterly. The amount would depend on
the area and the land use. Basically a single family home would pay $1.75/mo. i"'�
or 7.00/yr. Other land uses would pay based on the product of thls Resi�ential -
Equivalency Facor times acreage time rate. There were also some possibilities
for some credits for industrial and commercial properties.
Mr. Robinson stated he thought the storm water utility was a good idea, because
it would not raise taxes and there would be no assessments for system maintenance
and upgrading.
Ms. Schnabel stated that on page 69 of the a enda, there was a sheet entitled
"Preliminary Storm Drainage Utility Budget" �from the City of Richfield). The
budget included spring and fall sweeping and sumner sweeping. Was the City of
Fridley going to have those things, too? Is the City going to.also have leaf
pick-up?
Mr. Robinson stated he did not know the answer to that question.
Mr. Saba stated that if the money for storm water system maintenance currently
comes out of the general budget, why can't that continue? He stated he saw
this storm drainage utility as another way to increase revenue without saying
the City will increase taxes. If part �,f the budget is going to go for storm
water system maintenance, why not tell people up-front and let them know
that taxes are being increased in a minor amount for this type of maintenance
and continue to take the money out of the general revenue as the City has been
'doing? He did not see why another fee should be tacked onto the water/sewer
bill. This could snowball, and what is to stop every detrimental function from
coming up with a special fee on the water/sewer bill? Ms. Schnabel had talked
about leaf pick-up. Seriously, that could be the next fee tacked onto the
water/sewer bill. Then a street cleaning fee, etc., etc.
Mr. Minton stated he agreed with Mr. Saba. He did not like the principle of
revenue enhancement through this method. If the City is going to increase
its revenue, the regular avenue of doing that is through the property tax.
He did not think there was a good basis for charging a special fee for this
type of detrimental service.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 11
Ms. Schnabel read the following excerpt from "Why is a utility needed?" in
materials from the City of Roseville (page 64 of the agenda): "Today, storm
water costs are paid for using general tax money--property taxes. These new
costs, when combined with the nearly $200,000 Roseville must spend for ongoing
storm drainage maintenance each year. represer.ts a major expenditure of tax
money. Roseville must find a way to meet these rising costs in a fair and
equitable manner without adding additional burden to the property tax rolls."
She stated that what they are saying is they are replacing a tax raise with
this storm drainage utility, and it is the same thing.
Mr. Saba stated the concept was interesting� but he did not really go alonq
with it. It was a non-tax deductible fee. It was not a one tiMe fee. This fee
would be collected annually forever. They are creating a fund of mcney for
the city government to spend because it is there. It is like a department
budget, if the department has $50.000 that has to be spent that year or the
department will lose the money� that department will definitely find a way to
spend the money. The money is easier to spend if it i, there already in a pool
than if you have to justify it or request i� or budget it.
Ms. Oquist stated he tended to agree with Mr. Saba. This was a surcharge that
� was going to be there all the time. The fund is going to be established to
spend; whereas, if the money had to be budgeted, the money would be used more
logically.
Ms. Schtiabe] stated that if this fee is passed and a fund is created, how is
the City going to spend this mor.ey they are saving? What kind of services are
going to be given the citizens in exchange--better snowplowing, for example?
Mr, Minton stated it was important to maintain the infrastructure and keep it
in good shape, and it was important to pay for that maintenance, but he would
rather have the City do it more openly.
Mr. Robinson stated Fridley is unique in that there are a lot of ponds in the
city. There is a lot of maintenance needed on a pond--the filtration s.ystem,
erosion problems, mowing, etc.
Mr. Oquist stated that a lot of the ponds have been around for a long time,
and the maintenance on those ponds is ongoing and has been ongoing. So, that
type of money could come out of general funds. This fee sounds like it is
intended for storm sewers and tearing up streets to repair storm sewers. So,
the City needs to set aside some money just in case they need to do that.
Ms. Gabel stated that was the kind of information that would be useful to the
Commission. Are there storm sewers that indeed are damaged and need to be
replaced soon?
��
Mr. Minton stated a question that could be asked is: What would be done in
the future that is not being done now?
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING,NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 12
Mr. Oquist stated that the citizens of Fridley pay taxes to maintain their
storm sewers, and now the City wants to set aside more money to repair the
storm sewers. What will the citizens get in return? He stated he would pay
$1/yr, if the City would save him $7/yr, on his taxes.
Ms. Gabel asked if there were any plans that show what the City has to do in
the next 5-10 years on the storm sewer system and what is it going to cost?
If the City's sewer system was aging, what does that mean? What kind of
repairs will be done annually on the storm sewer system? What are the pro-
jected repairs in the next 10 years? Right now, there were too many unanswered
questions for her to make any kind of decision on this.
Mr. Minton stated he would like to know something about the life expectancy
of a storm sewer system. If Fridley's system is 20 years old, that is not very
old for a storm sewer system.
MOTION BY MR. MINTI�N� SECONDED BY MR. SABA, TO CONTINUE DISCUSSION ON THE
STOR1�t WATER DRAINAGE UTILITY AT TXE NEXT MEETING.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CXAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL.DECLARED THE 1�fOTION
CARRZED UNANIMOUSLY.
6. RECEIVE OCTOBER 11, 1984, HOUSING 8 REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY MINUTES:
MOTION BY M9.GABEL, SECONDED BY MP.. SABA, TO RECEIVE THE OCT. 11, 1984,
HDUSING 6 REDEVELOPI►IENT AUTXORITY MINUTES.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTZIJG AYE, CIiAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECI.ARED THE MOTION
CARRIED iINANIMOUSLY.
1. RECEIVE OCTOBER 9, 1984, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION BY MR. OQUIST� SECONDED BY !►!R. MINTON, TO RECEIVE THE OCT. 9, 1984,
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION MINUTES.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CXAIRWOMAN SCXNABEL DECLARED TXE MOTIOIJ
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
8. RECEIVE OCTOBER 16, 1984, ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY COMMISSION MINUTES:
1KOTION BY MR. NIELSEN� SECONDED BY MR. SABA, TO RECEIVE TflE OCT. 16, I984,
ENVZRONMENTAL QUALITY COlNMISSIDN 1NINUTES.
- UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRWOMAN SCXNABEL DECLARED TXE MOTION
CARRIED UNANI1r10USLY.
��_
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/'�
��
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0
PLANNING COMMISSION �4EETING, NOVE��IBER 28. 1984 PAGE 13
9. RECEIVE OCTOBER 23, 1984, APPEALS COMMISSION MINUTES:
1�lOTION BY 1►�S. GABEL� SECONDED BY 1HR. NIEISEN, TO RECEIVE Z'JJE OCT. 23, 1984,
APPEALS COlNMISSION 1NINUQ'ES.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CNAIRWOMAN SCXNABEL DECI.ARED TNE 1NOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
10. RECEIVE OCTOBER 23, 1954, ENERGY COf�IMISSION MINUTES:
!�lOTIDN BY MR. SABA, SECONDED BY 1�IIt. MINTON� TO RECEIVE TXE OCT. 23� 1989,
ENERGY COMMISSION 1NINIITES.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, Cf1AIRWOMAN SCXNABEL DECIr".RED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
ll. RECEIVE NOVEMBER 13, 1984, APPEALS CONB�IISSIGN MINUTES:
MOTION BY 1NS. GABEL, SECONDED BY lNR. OQUIST, TO RECEIVE TXE NOV. 13, 1984,
� APPEAIS COMMISSION MINUTES. -
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRWOMAN SCNNABEL DECLARED TXE MOTION
CA1tRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
12. RECEIVE NOVEMBER 1, 1984, HUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION BY MR. MINTON, SECONDED BY 1rIR. SABA, TO RECEIVE TXE NOV. 1, 1984,
BUMAN RESOURCES COMPIISSION MINUTES.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CXAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECLARED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Minton stated that attached to the Human Resources Comm�ssion minutes was,'
a memorandum dated Nov. 1, 1984, addressed to the Mayor and City Council on
the subject of the Banfill Tavern Recommendations. He stated the Cortmission
has been working on this for several months. The Commission's basic idea was
to come up with some alternatives that might be palatable to the County to
get the Banfill House in repair and used. They came up with five alternatives.
Mr. Minton reviewed these five alternatives with the Flanning Commission:
1. Accelerate the County's restoration schedule and provide funding
for maintenance.
2. Sell or lease the property to a private party.
- 3. Secure grants from the Minnesota Historical So�iety.
n 4. Creation of a private foundation
5. Sell the house to the Minnesota State Historical Society
Mr. Minton stated that Dave Torkildson, Anoka County Parks 8 Recreation
Director, seemed more in favor of alternative #], Basically, the Commission
was not because it was using the house like a museum and that has not worked
in the past.
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PLANNING COMMISSI�N MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 14 �
Mr. Minton quoted paragraph 2 on page 3 of the memorandum: "At this time,
it is the feeling of the majority of the Fridley Human Resources Commission
that alternative #2 is the most attractive. This strategy would minimize the
use of tax monies, would eliminate the need to generate interest in the
property, and the living use of the building would be in line with a trend
whereby the maintenance of historical buildings is economically feasible.
One member of the Comnission, however, favors alternative #1."
Ms. Schnabel stated she was very impressed with the work that has been done by
Mr. Minton and the Human Resources Commission. The Corrmission has done a lot
of in-depth study and come to these conclusions in a relatively short period
of time, and that was very impressive.
Mr. Minton stated there was a motion on page 4 of the H�iman Resources
Commission minutes approving the memorandum and forwarding it to the City
Council. He would like the Comnission to concur with this motion.
MOTION BY MR. MINTON, SECONDED BY MR. OQUIST, TO CONCUR WITH THE HUMAN RESOURCES
COMMISSION AND APPROVE THE MEMORANDUM TO TFIE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS
REGARDING TXE BANFILL TAVERN RECOMMENDATIDNS AND FORWARD IT TO THE CITY CDUNCIL.
UPON A VOICE VOTE,ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRWOMAN SCHNABEL DECLARED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Minton stated that Liz Chevalier of the Police Dept. had given a lengthy
report at the October Comnission meeting on the prevention programming in the
elementary schools. The Comnission members learned this programming was only
being held in two of the four public elementary schools in Fridley and not at
all in the private schools. The Commission thought the programming was excellent
and a motion was made and passed that this programning be expanded to the other
schools, both public and private, in the City of Fridley if financially feasible.
Ms. Gabel stated she liked the concept of all children having this prevention
programming, but she was opposed to the concept of public funds going to
private schools.
MOTIDN BY 1rII2. MINTON TO ENDORSE TXE MOTION MADE BY TNE HUMAN RESOURCES
COMMISSION TXAT THE HUMAN RESOURCES COI�lISSION WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE PREVENTIDN
PROGRAMMING E7�ANDED TO ALL THE ELEMENTARY SCXDOLS WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF
FRIDLEY� BOTH PRIVATE AND PUBLZC� BECAUSE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS PROGRAMMING,
AND WOULD RECOMMEND THAT ADDITIONAL STAFF BE ASSIGNED TO THIS IMPORTANT GIORK.
MOTION DIED FOR LACIC OF A SECOND.
' Mr. Saba stated he agreed with Ms. Gabel. They were already paying taxes
for public schools, and this would be subsidizing private schools.
Mr. Robinson stated maybe private schools could send representatives to
�
workshops and be trained in this type of programning. `"
Mr. Oquist stated that maybe the private schools should be notified of the
prevention programning and, if they are interested, recommend they send people
to workshops to be trained in this type of programming.
_� .
r''"'�
�
PLANNING C01�4ISSION MEETING, NOVEMBER 28, 1984 PAGE 15
13. OTHER BUSINESS:
Ms. Schnabel stated that at the Planning Commission's request. she attended
the Oct. 21 City Council conrerence meeting. She did express the Commission's
concern about the City being the leader in beautification and upholding the
Zoning Code. She was told there was a plan for the city billboard on
University Ave., and supposedly it will be improved. She stated she had
driven by the sign recently; and the message had been changed, but the sign
was still "tacky".
ADJOURNI�I�NT:
Chairwoman Schnabel declared the November 28, 1984, Planning Commission meeting
adjourned at 11:00 p.m,
Respectfully submatted,
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^� - - , .�, C /,��i /�
ynne Sa a �
Recording Secretary
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