PL 08/16/1989 - 30706�"'�
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989
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CALL TO ORDER•
Vice-Chairperson Kondrick called the Auqust 16, 1989, Planning
Commission meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
�20LL CALL •
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Dave Kondrick, Dean Saba,
Barna, Paul Dahlberg
Donald Betzold
Sue Sherek, Alex
Others Present: Barbara Dacy, Planning Coordinator
Michele McPherson, Planning Assistant
Nancy Jorgenson, Councilmember at Large
James & Beverly Wolfe, 1265 Hathaway Lane
Neal Thompson, 1264 Hathaway Lane
Karen Allard, 615-54th Avenue NE
Laurie Wolfe, 960 Hathaway Lane
Orville & Jeannine Sachs, 1281 Hathaway Lane
Shelley Garber, 5800 Tennison Drive
John & Juli Evers, 5801 Tennison Drive
Helen Steinke, 1071 Hathaway Lane
Cherle Pederson, 1030 Hathaway Lane
Ma�y Eggert, 1090 Hathaway Lane
David Matlock, 1080 Hathaway Lane
Douglas & Nancy Strong, 5721 Regis Drive
Carol Eppel, 5721 Regis Drive
Jim & Juel Bagaason, 1191 Hathaway Lane
Norman & Alice Abel, 1050 Hathaway Lane
Janice Driggins, 1280 Hathaway Lane
John & Michelle Ward, 5691 Regis Drive
James B. Legatt, 5701 Regis Drive
Keith Poppenhagen, 7510 Hwy. 65
Bohaban Mehrychenk, 2704 W. River Pkwy., Mpls.
Father John Maqramm, 1201 Hathaway Lane
Sister Vera Saba, 1201 Hathaway Lane
Mother Victoria, 1201 Hathaway Lane
Bernice Playle, 4509 Brookdale Drive,
Brooklyn Park, I�IId
APPROVAL OF JULY 12, 1989, PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES:
O�I TION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to approve the July
12, 1989, Planning Commission minutes as written.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 2
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1. TABLED: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. SP #89-08, BY
KEITH'S AUTO BODY: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Per Section 205.17.O1.C.9(0 of the Fridley City Code, to allow
a repair garage on that part of the East 46 acres of the West
1/2 of the Northwest 1/4 of Section 12, T-30, R-24, Anoka
County, Minnesota, described as follows: Commencing at a
point on the West line of said East 46 acre tract distant
623.5 feet South of the Northwest corner of said East 46 acre
tract 161.63 feet; thence East parallel with the North line
of said East 46 acre tract 538.98 feet, more or less, to the
Westerly right-of-way line of State Highway No. 65; thence
Northerly along said Westerly right-of-way line 161.63 feet,
more or less, to the intersection of a line drawn from the
point of beginning and parallel with the North line of said
East 46 acre tract; thence West parallel with the said North
line 538.73 feet, more or less, to the point of beginning, the
same being 7570 Highway 65 N.E.
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Saba, to open discussion on
special use permit #89-08.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND DISCUSSION OPENED AT
7:33 P.M.
Ms. Dacy reported this request was last considered on May 17, 1989.
The site is located West of and adjacent to Highway 65, south of
Osborne Road. The property is zoned M-1, Light Industrial. To the
north and west is M-1 zoning. Lampert Lumber is located
immediately to the north, to the south is R-4 (mobile home park),
and to the east across Highway 65 is a mixture of C-3, Commercial,
and M-1 zoning. On the property are two buildings constructed in
the early 1960's. The petitioner, Reith's Auto Body, is currently
occupying the western most building on the lot.
As was discussed at the meeting of May 17, the site and buildings
need improvements to comply with M-1, Light Industrial standards.
The site would have to be paved between the two buildings,
installation of required curb around paved areas, and creation of
a landscaped area in front of the property to meet the 20 foot
setback. The owner, Mr. Niichael Thompson, talked about the
property and title problems with the site. The Commission
discussed establishing a timetable for completion of improvements.
Staff recommended nine stipulations and a timetable. The
commission adjusted some of the completion dates. The nine
stipulations remain the same but some of the dates were changed in
#1, 2, 3 and 4 to August 1, 1991. The most important stipulation
the Planning Commission wanted completed was the installation of
sewer. The site is now served by a septic system. The item was
� tabled so the building and fire inspectors could inspect the
buildings and determine whether or not they met code and/or whether
or not they would be considered condemnable property. The
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 3
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inspection confirmed that the buildings are in good structural
condition. There are some things the owners need to comply with,
but not enough to justify condemnation. Staff has talked with Mr.
Thompson, and he would be agreeable to go along with the timetable
as recommended. Staff recommends approval of this special use
permit with stipulations, as recommended by the Planning
Commission.
Mr. Saba felt it was difficult to take action without the owner
present. However, the owner agreed to the stipulations and has
indicated his willingness to comply with the recommendations.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if the issues regarding ownership had been
resolved.
Ms. Dacy stated these issues were not resolved, but the owner is
willing to continue with the process and to do what the Planning
Commission has recommended and agrees with the dates.
Ms. Sherek felt that in stipulation #3 the dates should be 60 to
90 days rather than August 1, 1991, to haul away the junk. She
felt that 1991 was too long and felt the abandoned property on the
site should be hauled away. She recommended a date of October 15
or November 1, 1989. The last sentence should read "This work
^ shall be completed no later than November 1, 1989."
Mr. Kondrick indicated the owner is not present to address this
change of date.
Ms. Sherek indicated that the owner could address this when it is
before the City Council.
Ms. Sherek stated that the date should be changed in stipulation
#8 to November 15, 1989, at which time, staff can make sure the
work has been done.
Mr. Poppenhagen stated that some of the materials the commission
considered "junk" he considered valuable to his business.
Mr. Barna stated these materials should be stored inside or behind
a fence.
Ms. Sherek stated that materials cannot be visible over the fence.
Ms. Dacy stated this was covered in stipulation #3.
Mr. Barna questioned #7 regarding the letter of credit. Should
this be provided at this time because the holding tank must be
installed by January 1, 1990.
�' Ms. Dac stated the intent is not to re
y quire until ownership is
established. Prior to extension of the City sewer system, staff
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 4
would require it at that time but not later than January l, 1991.
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Ms. Dahlberg to close the public
hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICR
DECLARED THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 7:45 P.M.
Mr. Saba had no problem with the special use permit as long as
there is compliance with the stipulations.
Mr. Barna agreed, as long as there is no hazard to others.
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to recommend to City
Council approval of special use permit, SP #89-08, with the
following stipulations:
1. All parking areas shall be paved and line with six inch
poured concrete curb by August 1, 1991. A five foot
setback on the north and south property lines shall also
be created in compliance with the setback requirements.
2. A 20-foot planting island shall be created along the
front property line in compliance with the parking
r'`� setback requirement by August 1, 1991. The island shall
be curbed and planted as proposed in the proposed
landscape plan included in the packet.
3. All piles of debris, car parts, pallets and other
materials shall be removed from the south side of the
buildings and either stored within the building, removed
off the site or contained within a six foot opaque fenced
area at the southwest corner of the site. All noxious
weeds shall be removed and the lawn area maintained in
a neat fashion. All semi truck trailers which are
inoperable or used for storage shall be removed from the
site. This work shall be completed no later than
ATovember 1, 1989.
4. The building shall be improved to meet the Uniform
Building Code requirements by January 1, 1991.
0 5. The property shall be serviced with sanitary sewer by
January 1, 1991. In the interim, the property owner
shall remove the septic system and install a holding tank
by January 1, 1990. The tank shall be pumped on a
regular basis and a copy of the pumping contract shall
be submitted to the City.
,� 6. A letter of credit in the amount of the outside site
improvements including poured concrete curbing and
landscaping shall be submitted prior to initiation of
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 5
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construction.
7. A letter of credit in the amount of the construction cost
for connection to the sanitary sewer shall be submitted
prior to construction.
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8. The special use permit shall be reviewed by City staff
on November 15, 1989, and thereafter on an annual basis.
9. There shall be no sales of automobiles on the property.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UATANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Kondrick indicated this item would be brought before the City
Council at their meeting of August 28.
2. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SP
#89-11. BY ORTHODOX CHURCH OF THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
INC.: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Per Section 205.07.O1.C.2 of the Fridley City Code, to allow
churches in a residential district, on Lot 3, Block 1,
Parkview Oaks First Addition, the same being 1201 Hathaway
Lane N.E.
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Mr. Saba, to waive the reading of
the public hearing notice and open the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON RONDRICIC
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND THE PUBLIC HEARIATG OPEN
AT 7:50 P.M.
Ms. McPherson reported the property is located on Lot 3, Block 1,
at the intersection of Hathaway Lane and Regis Drive in an R-1,
Single Family district. A church is allowed in an R-1 district
with a special use permit. The proposed site plan shows the
existing house with alterations for an addition to the rear and a
change in design at the front entrance. The code states that there
are some building lot standards that need to be met by a church in
an R-1 district. The lot area must be 15,000 sq. ft. This lot has
approximately 9,900 sq. feet. The petitioner has applied for a
variance for the lot area requirement. In addition, they must have
a 15 foot setback on the side; again a variance has been requested
to reduce the setback to 10 feet.
The petitioner is proposing some changes to the existing house,
including an 18 ft. X 18 ft. addition to the house over an open
deck to allow room for a worship area. Also, an addition over the
front walk as shown on the site elevation is being proposed by the
,._, petitioner at this time.
Regarding the lot coverage requirements, staff has looked at the
,� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 6
other churches that currently exist in the city. Most of the
churches in the city far exceed the minimum lot area requirement.
Many of the churches reside in an R-1 district; however, most are
located at the edge of an R-1 district and near a major
intersection.
Ms. Dacy reported that the City Attorney is researching the ability
of municipalities to regulate churches. Given this application is
different from previous applications in that it is in a single
family home and the church is small in size, the City Attorney
wishes to review the minutes and make a written recommendation
after his research and submit his recommendation at the first
meeting of the Planning Commission in September. He would prefer
that the Planning Commission conduct the public hearing so he is
aware of what the other concerns are from other owners.
Mr. Kondrick asked if there were legal complications that he is
looking to unravel before makinq a recommendation.
Ms. Dacy stated this is correct.
Father Magramm stated the Orthodox Church of the Resurrection of
Christ is a traditional Christian church with a continuous history
reaching back to the Apostles. It is considered here in the United
^ States to be the fourth major religion after the Protestants,
Catholics, and Jews. There are 13 such Orthodox churches in the
Twin City area. There was an article in the St. Paul Pioneer Press
and Dispatch in the religious section last Saturday about some of
the Orthodox churches and his church was mentioned also. Father
Magramm stated that they want to use the house in Fridley is as a
monastic house, the aim of which is a quiet life. He stated that
they have been for the past 8 years at the other end of Hathaway
Lane. They have enjoyed the quiet of the neighborhood and that
particular street. He stated he anticipates some church members
would come to the house, altogether about 12 people, 8 or 9 besides
themselves. These people would join as they have been doing. They
have had the property at 1201 Hathaway Lane since January; about
8 months. There would be no more traffic and no more parked cars
in the future than have been noticed up to now. The church also
uses the worship space at 601 15th Avenue in Dinkytown. Any lar-ge
gatherings besides the regular Sunday services would take place in
that facility. The church has asked for this permit so that it
would not violate any legal code in converting a room in the house
into a chapel and so that anything that they did would be done with
the neighborhood�s knowledge. They passed around, hand delivered,
to the neighborhood, or at least to those who were on the list that
were receiving notification of the permit, a pamphlet about the
church and a sheet to acquaint neighborhood with who they are and
what are projects are going to be and mainly to stress that they
� are not asking to use the facility to build a big church, a new
church, but to use it as a monastic house chapel. The sisters that
have been living there are looking for a quiet life and they would
I� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 7
be the first to protest any type of activity that would be
disruptive either to the neighborhood or to them. He did have the
sheet that was hand delivered to the neighborhood. There are
others at the meeting to whom they did not deliver this because
they kept this to the list that they had. He is open to discussion
and willing to answer any questions that anyone might have. He
wants to stress that the purpose of the monastic house chapel is
a quiet life, the ability to have prayer meetings for the monastic
community rather than a church that would have social activities.
Ms. Laurie Wolfe asked how many members are in the church right
now.
Father Magramm stated about 20 members in the church in Dinkytown.
The house will be used as a monastic house chapel for those at one
end of the Hathaway Lane.
Ms. Wolfe stated it appears the Code says a church and Father is
saying this is a monastic house. Which is it?
Father Magramm stated he thought the City had only one word which
is a church. The church described it as a monastic house chapel.
Ms. Janice Driggins asked, if it were a monastic house and not a
� church, is a special use permit necessary.
Mr. Kondrick replied that this apparently is a question for which
the Planning Commission needs to wait for an opinion from the City
Attorney.
Ms. Driggins stated that, to her understanding, the property has
a garage built over a water main. As a realtor, she had problems
several years ago on a closing and could not get a title because
of the water main issue. In view of that, would that be taken into
consideration for granting permits for building onto that house.
Mr. Kondrick stated he thought it would, but this is new
information to the commission. This information will be considered
and will surely have an impact on the final dis�cussion. Mr.
Kondrick thanked her for that information, and directed staff to
check on it.
Mr. Douglas Strong presented a petition signed by 45 people in the
neighborhood. The petition stated that this property is a
relatively small home in a quiet residential neighborhood. The
property is a single lot, with no room for expansion. There is no
off-street parking. The location of the property at the end of a
T intersection and at the base of a steep hill causes tremendous
on-street parking problems. Mr. Strong stated that the following
�, property owners hereby wished to register their extreme opposition
to the granting of the special use permit by the City of Fridley
for this property. The petition is to safeguard the neighborhood
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 8
because a variance or a special use permit is granted to the legal
description and not to the individuals living in the house. The
people living in the house may be totally above board, but once
they move out, the special use permit carries over to the new
owners. One of the neighbors' concerns is that once it is done,
it is very difficult to undo. As the Commission can see by the
site plan, the lot is very small. Another chart that Mr. Strong
was very interested in seeing was the churches in Fridley that have
been looked at so far. The square footage of the lots is larger
than this lot. Mr. Strong asked the Planning Commission if they
had driven by the site. If so, members are aware of the steep
hill. He has checked with the Engineering Department, and this
hill has over a 9� grade which makes it an undesirable hill for
parking, especially in the winter. Mr. Strong has lived in his
current residence for 15 years and sees that the Public Works
Department has to hit that hill first thing when the first snowfall
hits, so that the people that do live up there can get up the
street. It is not conducive to parking. The neighbors are hearing
that there will not be parking problems here. An addition to the
building is being done to accommodate a volume of people. While
the church is saying 12 people maximum, there is no place in the
special use permit that the Commission can set a maximum number of
people that can be there. The fire code may enter into this and
require additional exits, and sprinkling of the building may enter
^ into it. Also, to leave this structure looking like a single
family residence will not happen with the proposed changes to the
structure, particularly to the front of the house. That will make
it look like a church. There is a realtor here tonight, and that
person would know better than Mr. Strong what happens to the values
of the homes next to a church. It is a church. Whether you want
to call is a fancy name or not, if it's a special use permit for
a church, it's a church. Mr. Strong asked if he was wrong.
Mr. Barna stated that in that instance, yes. If a special use
permit is issued forever for that property, but a special use
permit can be limited to the occupant. A variance is forever, that
goes with the description of the property. But a special use
permit is reviewable or renewable. If this church were to move out
of the residence as owners, the special use permit can be limited
to their residence or their use of the property.
Mr. Rondrick stated that, as with many special use permits, there
are oftentimes certain stipulations that the petitioner must comply
with. Time limits are given, and even no time limits. If those
stipulations are violated, the permit can be revoked. So those
things are in the background here too. He suggested a motion to
accept the petition and the names as part of the minutes so the
City Council and City Attorney can review.
^ MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to accept the petition
as part of the minutes.
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 9
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICR
DECLARED THE MOTIOAT CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Strong stated with regard to the water main and construction
to the building, his experience with Fridley's water system in the
neighborhood is that there have been a number of water main breaks .
Assuming that they are cast iron mains, these mains are conducive
to water main breaks. This particular main is a 6-inch water main
that runs all the way through in a loop system. With construction
of the addition near the main, vibration and what not in that area
could lead to a leak. With a garage over the water main, there is
potential for severe problems there. Mr. Strong knew the
individuals who sold this house, and knew they had great
difficulties once they discovered the water main was there. They
did go through the City. They did get a permit. It was issued.
Nobody caught this until almost 20 years later when they went to
sell it and it was surveyed. There was an error along the way, but
Mr. Strong didn't think they need to add to the problem allowing
additional construction on there that could affect that. Another
concern is that even if there will not be additional parking, he
knows there will be at times additional parking. With the T
intersection today, if anyone in the neighborhood has guests cars
parked on either side of the street, it become difficult to
maneuver when the streets are at all slippery. Unfortunately,
�'`� people also have a tendency to come down Regis Drive which is also
at a grade, not at 9�, something less than that, but they have a
tendency to come quickly down there. The alternate is to make a
sharp turn or go right up the driveway because it is an extension
of the street. It becomes a hazardous situation. Mr. Strong has
barely missed cars because the view is blocked. There are some
hazards there and the neighbors don't need to add to this by adding
the potential for additional parking. He knows the intention is
good and there is nothing the neighborhood has against the
residence being used as it is today, as a single family residence.
He believes they are good neighbors. It is the use of the property
that the neighbors had a problem with. It is not designed for a
church. A neighborhood is quiet and we would like to keep it that
way. Mr. Strong stated his daughter commented that she could hear
church music on Sunday morning, which may be desireable some of the
time, but not when you wish to sleep.
Mr. Kondrick asked, suppose the number of cars were limited and
that church services would not be held except with Father and a few
others, how would Mr. Strong feel about that?
Mr. Strong stated he would still have a question of the use of the
property as a church and there is still the factor of values of
houses when that takes place. A neighbor is in the process of
putting his house up for sale due to a move out of state. It does
� have an affect on the property values. Another thing that the
neighbors are missing is whether the property is now on the tax
roles.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 10
Ms. Dacy stated the church has applied for a tax exempt status.
Taxes for 1989 are paid, but next year would be tax exempt.
Mr. Strong stated that the neighborhood would be losing the tax
base of that property. Maybe if the church special use permit is
not granted, it might not be that desireable. The taxes are based
on mill rate with the school. These residents will not be having
children in the schools and this structure will not add tax dollars
to support that. Each of these that does apply and does get it
means that the rest of us pick up that share. Another concern is
that a neighbor who is close to this property is also considering
selling their house if the permit is granted. It is a quiet
residential neighborhood and it is not designed for a church. A
home for the Father and Sisters is no problem. They are good
neighbors from a residential standpoint. But as a church, the lot
is not conducive, the traffic pattern is not conducive for that
situation. It is be very easy to say there won't be any problems
now, but no one has any experience with that right now and what is
going to happen. The church has a substantial increase proposed
in size which to Mr. Strong would generate additional people, or
at least the ability to accommodate additional people. It may not
be there now, but with the addition the possibility is there. Once
it is done, it's done. You can review special use permits, but Mr.
�, Strong would be very surprised that once it is granted, unless it
was abused greatly, it would not be lifted. Abuse would be very
difficult to show. The people on that petition are looking to the
Planning Commission to review and to not grant the special use
permit at this time.
Mr. Kondrick asked, if there were no more than 3 or 4 cars there,
and he realizes that could mean 20 people, and with off street
parking, how would Mr. Strong feels about it.
Mr. Strong stated he would be opposed to any use as a church even
if the cars are limited and modification to make the house look
like a church was denied.
Mr. Barna presented a hypothetical situation of a salesperson for
a home-based company who held regular meetings at their home which
could include as many as 20 to 25 people each week, would Mr.
Stronq still object? Such use does not require a special use
permit.
Mr. Strong stated he would, if traffic becomes a problem, the City
would hear about it from the residents. Regardless of whether you
hear from the citizens or not, the neighbors are looking at a
safety factor.
Mr. Barna stated the Planning Commission can put restrictions on
`�, with a special use permit, but a home-based business cannot be
restricted. There are restrictions on employing others in your
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 11
home. The special use permit gives the City a handle on it so
staff can restrict the parking on the site, and can even put on
architectural restrictions which cannot be done on a normal home.
That is the idea of a special use permit being required for a
church. A question is that the City Attorney is not sure if staff
can legally put on those restrictions. The idea is to get as much
as you can and stay within the law. Mr. Barna agreed that he would
not want to see a big ��church" structure put on that lot, but
whether or not the Commission can restrict a monastic chapel or
chapel uses is the question. The Jehovah's Witness hold Bible
meetings and/or prayer meetings in their homes and there are no
restriction on that.
Several persons stated that in that situation the persons are still
paying taxes on their property and maintain a main church building.
Mr. Strong stated that the tax exempt status is still a question.
A public hearing is to get public opinion which is what the
neighbors are here to do. The Planning Commission also needs to
look at the best use of the property. The decision must be made
whether this is a legitimate use of the property.
Mr. Kondrick stated that residents� input is valued. This exchange
brings out ideas and viewpoints that are very important.
Father Magramm stated he had two comments. He is quite a distance
from Mr. Strong�s house. There is another church in the area that
could make noise. Also, the tax exemption has nothing to do with
the permit.
Ms. Shelley Garber thought it would be lovely to have these people
as neighbors. The parking would not affect her because she
doesn't live on the street. The tax exemption is a problem. She
wanted to know what a monastic house is. Has the house where the
Brothers live been changed into a church? Who lives at the house?
Father Magramm stated they pay taxes at the other house. The
Brothers have a house chapel there which is small.
Mr. Kondrick asked Father Magramm to provide a definition of a
monastic house.
Father Magramm states a monastic house is a place where monks or
nuns live, similar to a rectory or convent.
Ms. Garber asked if any were employed.
Father Magramm stated yes. The sisters do volunteer work at
nursing homes and hospitals.
Ms. Garber stated that other churches in the community are also tax
exempt and have services for the community which benefit the
^ PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 12
community. She wanted to know from the sisters, if they were there
and did have a monastic house, how would they contribute to the
neighborhood?
Mother Victoria stated that she had not yet moved permanently to
the house on Hathaway Lane, but hoped to do so soon. For 10 years
she has been living in a similar monastic house in California. The
main purpose is the monastic life. The first purpose is a prayer
life. They contribute to the community in non-specific ways. They
are not dedicated to one type of work. They have a house full of
people that live monastic life and do what comes. In California,
it turned out to be a lot of work with old people, helping with
transportation, filling out Social Security forms, living with them
for a few weeks while recuperating, this is work that developed
with the needs as seen. It is not as if the Sisters have a
charter .
Ms. Garber asked if Mother Victoria had had a chance to evaluate
the needs here.
Mother Victoria stated she had personally been here a very short
time and had met very few neighbors. So that is something she had
not yet had time to do, but hopes to do so in the future.
�``� Mr. David Matlock stated he had recently moved into the
neighborhood and has a 4-year-old son. One of the things that
attracted him to neighborhood was that it was very quiet and
secluded. He had heard the comments about the off street parking,
and agreed that the driveway could not hold more than 4-6 cars.
That T intersection is very nasty which he found out last winter
when he almost broadsided a car coming down the hill on glare ice.
Mr. Matlock was afraid that if there was a lot of off street
parking with cars on both sides of the street, it would make the
lanes very narrow. Because there are so many kids, any increase
in traffic could be hazardous to the kids. In addition, it was
stated that there is a chapel in the house at 991 Hathaway Lane and
asked if that needed a variance. Was that house modified? If not,
why modify the house at 1201 Hathaway Lane?
,�'1
Father Magramm stated they use a room in the basement, and they did
not modify the house. They want to modify the house for their
church furniture and icons. The front would be a type of
extension.
Mr. Matlock stated it does change the look of the house
dramatically from a single family dwelling to an obvious church.
If the Brothers and Sisters are going to lead a monastic life, why
is this necessary?
Father Magramm stated they want to have a certain look.
Mr. Matlock asked if they had plans to modify the home at 991
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 13
i�1
Hathaway Lane.
Father Magramm stated they did not have plans to modify the other
home.
Mr. Matlock stated he did not have a problem with these people as
neighbors. He had noticed an increase in traffic since last
summer. He had had people stop and ask directions to the church.
He wanted to voice his opposition to this and felt the change will
stand out dramatically. This is a single family home and, if the
church wants a place for nuns to live, Mr. Matlock did not see why
it needed to be modified for use as a church.
Ms. Wolfe asked if they would be notified of the issues that the
City Attorney is considering, such as whether it is a church or
monastic home.
Mr. Kondrick stated this will come back to the Planning Commission
again before going to the City Council. The Planning Commission
will have another meeting and make a recommendation prior to this
item going to the City Council.
Mr. James Wolfe stated there seems to be a contradiction between
monastic residence and applying for a tax exempt church status.
�, Which is it going to be?
Mr. Kondrick stated that is crux of the problem, and that is the
area that the City Attorney is researching.
Mr. Wolfe stated he was not sure the parking will be the way it now
is. The hill is very dangerous at that intersection in the winter.
There is no stop sign. Drivers have to get a little run to get up
hill and slow down for that corner because it is blind, and take
off again. There are a lot of cars in the winter that go past that
hill probably faster than they should trying to get home. He is
not convinced that the traffic will stay the way it is. He does
not care for the change architecturally in the front of the house.
Ms. Juli Evers stated the church�s backyard meets her backyard.
When she first heard about the request, she was quite concerned.
She has four young children and was concerned about what the church
might be telling the children. Ms. Evers was relieved to know it
was a Christian organization. She moved into an established
neighborhood so she would know her neighbors. She was opposed to
a church. They were invited to an open house and were the only
ones who went. They were there 1 1/2 hours and had their questions
answered. If she could pick neighbors, they would be at the top
of the list. They are quiet, she has not noticed that they have
been there for 8 months. As far as the tax purposes, she thought
^ that if the neighbors are concerned about taxes, they should look
also at larger churches that are not being taxed. This is minute
in comparison. She belongs to a church and appreciates the status
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 14
�
they have, and was sure these people would also. Parking, if it
could be restricted to only so many in the driveway and no street
parking, it would be okay. However, she has garage sales on her
street on Fridays that line the street which also makes traffic
patterns which can be just as often as church services. Ms. Evers
has no objection to them being there. She was not sure that she
would agree to the structural change in front. She had done a
complete turn around since she was notified.
Ms. Driggins stated she would like to comment on the traffic. She
asked if the members would be physically looking at that area to
see what the neighbors are looking at.
The Commission members stated they had driven past the
intersection.
Ms. Driggins stated she has been a victim of being
near missed many other times in that area. She
square footage of the lot clarified.
Ms. McPherson stated the lot is 9,600 square feet.
blind sided and
asked to have
Ms. Driggins stated that the minimwn for a church is 15,000 square
feet so without any further additions on that property it is
�, already overbuilt, so to speak, for the land.
r"`.
Mr. Dahlberg stated not as a residential property, but as a church
yes . •
Ms. Driggins asked then if the addition has any impact.
Mr. Dahlberg stated not with respect to building setbacks and lot
coverage.
Mr. Kondrick stated the setbacks from the side may need to be
changed to allow a special use, but the Commission is not
considering that at this time.
Ms. Carol Eppel stated she had no problem with the house as it
presently is. She thought the size of the property and taxes were
an area the neighbors should deal with. She thought the neighbors
are fortunate that this has comes up. Any neighbor could paint
their house any color they want and she couldn�t complain. She
stated that, since this is a small residential area, she would not
like front of house changed to look like a church. She did not
move to the area to live ne�ct to a church. She did not oppose the
activities that are there now. She wanted to know, if a special
use permit was granted and activities became a problem, could
restrictions be put on? If the permit was granted and if something
came up, do the neighbors no longer have any rights to say this is
something that is an disruption to the neighborhood?
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 15
,'�
Mr. Kondrick stated a special use permit can have as many
stipulations as necessary to protect the welfare and look of the
community including restricting the number of cars, etc. There are
certain setbacks that would need to be changed with a variance.
If they did not comply, the City has the right to ask them to stop.
If they didn�t do that, the City can deny the special use permit
so they can no longer function in that way.
Ms. Garber asked if a monastic house is tax exempt.
Father Magramm stated the house has been paying taxes all along.
Mr. Matlock asked, if on street parking was restricted, can the
church then pave the front yard for off street parking.
Mr. Kondrick stated no.
Mr. Barna stated that the only way the church could possibly gain
additional parking on this lot would be to move the garage to the
rear of the lot, to within code, but if there is a pipe there,
there could be problems at that point. The church is pretty well
limited to what they have unless they were going to move the
garage. This would be very expensive to increase the parking.
r-•� Mr. Saba stated that one thing that could be done is to put up no
parking signs on either side of the street.
Ms. Sherek stated this would affect everyone's parking in t�ie area.
Mr. Saba stated, if that is a hazard, it may be somethinq that
should be looked at anyway.
Mr. James Legatt asked, if the City restricts the parking and
parking was a problem there, the church would move the parking and
then it would be a concern of his. It would also be a problem that
people do come down Regis Drive �ast. If there was a restriction
on parking, then it would probably affect all of the neighbors on
Regis Drive.
Mr. Kondrick stated this is just discussion of ideas and has not
happened yet. These expressions will be forwarded on to those tho
make the final decisions later on.
Ms. Alice Ebel stated she understood that the larger gatherings are
held in Dinkytown, except on Sundays. Would the meetings then be
held in the house? How many would be attending?
Father Magramm stated that if he stated "except", he did not mean
to. The members meet in Dinkytown on Sundays at 601 13th Avenue
which is a large complex owned by the University Lutheran Church
� of Hope. The church has used this facility for the main church
gatherings. He stressed that the major gatherings would not be at
�„\ PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 16
''�`�
/"`,
the residence.
Ms. Ebel asked who would using the monastic chapel?
Father Magramm stated there are 20 in the congregation.
Unfortunately, not everyone comes to church every Sunday. Take
that number minus four, and the number that attend regular services
in Dinkytown, that means there would be about 8 people that might
come.
Ms. Cherle Pedersen asked if the Brothers already had a home on
the end of Hathaway with a chapel, and now you need another home
with another chapel. Why did the church need two homes for one
chapel for eight people?
Father Magramm stated the chapel at the other end of Hathaway is
in the basement, is very small and is used for storage. The church
wants a chapel at 1201 Hathaway so it can be on the upper level.
Ms. Pedersen asked, if you are going to have a chapel at 1201
Hathaway, then would you go back to paying taxes for the other
home.
Father Magramm stated they have always paid taxes on the first home
and will continue to do so.
Ms. Pedersen asked if they then will move congregation to this
facility.
Father Magramm stated they are not moving the congregation to this
home. They are moving pictures, icons, and the Sisters into 1201
Hathaway. The difference is to move a chapel to a living room
space. The house at 1201 Hathaway is larger home than the other
one. The other chapel is a small room in the basement.
Ms. Pedersen asked why physically change that house for only eight
people.
Father Magramm stated that was the purpose of the open house. They
wanted the neighbors to come so they could answer questions.
Anyone is welcome to come at any time to see what they are doing.
The chapel is very small there. It is as living room space and
they want to expand it to have enough room to put the painted
panels that they have on the walls.
Ms. Pedersen stated that churches are set up to increase
congregations. When this is done to a home for increasing
congregations, it is not conducive to the neighborhood quietness.
Father Magramm stated he understood that concern. He again
stressed that any large gatherings that are held for dinners,
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 17
r''�
Christmas, etc., would all be held in Dinkytown. If the neighbors
had not seen problems up until now, they wouldn't in the future.
Father knows that churches want to grow, but this church is not
planning to grow at Hathaway Lane. Any growth will be at
Dinkytown. Hathaway Lane is where they want to have a prayer life
and a chapel in the home. The Sisters will live in one home and
the Brothers in the other.
Ms. Pedersen stated she nearly had an accident at that intersection
and with additional traffic and cars parked at that part there
would no way to stop accidents on that corner. Residents know to
watch that corner, but others are not going to know and that will
create a problem.
Ms. Jule Bagaason stated she lived next door to the parcel. They
have lived there 1 1/2 years and chose the home for privacy. They
had lived in apartments and duplexes and bought the house for
privacy. They do not have privacy with additional people and an
addition that will look directly into the backyard. There is a
huge cross nailed on front of the house which has caused some
problems with traffic on that corner from those who drive by, stop
and back up to take another look. Changing the look of the home
will only complicate the problems at that intersection. Ms.
Bagaason feels as if she is losing what they have worked for and
,� would want to be compensated.
Ms. Eppel stated they were not given notice of this request. When
something like this comes up, she would like the City to notify the
neighbors of the change. She would like to recommend that all
those who have signed the petition be notified on further
happenings.
Mr. Matlock asked if the addition they were planning over the
existing deck, to enclose deck for chapel, why not put a chapel on
back of other house.
Father Magramm stated that the structure at 1201 Hathaway is the
structure that they want for a bit more room and because they have
chosen not to do so on that property. Expansion at that property
would not be feasible.
Councilmember Jorgenson asked if the property that you are planning
to modify would be used for weddings, funerals, baptisms?
Father Magramm stated the addition is to expand 18 feet. In the
past four years, they have had one wedding and one funeral. The
funeral was held in the funeral home and the wedding was held in
Dinkytown.
Councilmember Jorgenson asked if they planned to have baptisms,
'� weddings, etc., at this location.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 18
r�\
Father Magramm stated they may have a baptism. He did not think
they would have a wedding or a funeral.
Ms. Jorgenson asked if it was correct that the a special use permit
was to bring in icons for chapel.
Father Magramm stated they want to expand for icons.
Mr. Strong asked to clarify that the Dinkytown chapel will be used
for special events.
Mr. Dahlberg stated the Dinkytown facility will be used every
Sunday for worship.
Ms. Strong stated they had conflict with their open house. Taxes
are not a problem. The property was not going to affect her
property that much. She had no problem with the beliefs and way
of their life. Ms. Strong did not buy property to live near a
church. She did not want not live across the street from any
church. Nor did she want to live across from a residence that
looks like a church.
Mr. Ned Thompson asked if the special use permit would allow the
City to put on more restrictions on the property than the present
�� building code would allow.
Mr. Kondrick stated yes.
Mr. Barna stated there are things you could do a house that they
would not be allowed to do. You can put an entrance on the front
of your house or a deck on the back as long as you don�t exceed the
lot coverage or eliminate 25� of your backyard or 25 feet from the
back lot line. The restrictions here are with the special use
permit, but on the residence we don't have those. You would have
more flexibility through the building code than through the special
use permit.
Mr. Thompson stated that, if a special use permit could restrict
the front of the house, this could then be better for the
neighborhood.
Ms. Karen Allard asked how many will be living in the house.
Father Magramm stated no more than 5 persons.
Ms. Bagaason stated that, if she wanted to live next to a church,
she would have bought a home next to a church. She feels it is no
longer her choice. She stated that they did not want to live next
door to a church.
�` Ms. Sherek asked Father Magramm, in looking at the plans, was
there going to be a structure to the entry for the chapel which is
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 19
�
�,
going to at the back?
Father Magramm stated there was a back door and a front door.
Ms. Sherek asked if there was a reason why the entry could not be
placed at the back of the property where the deck is now. One
objection is to the structure that the church is putting on the
front of the house. Was there a reason why an entrance could not
be placed at the back? People could walk along the driveway and
enter the chapel at the back. That could answer the question of
not creating a distraction, not making it look to the neighborhood
as if they are living adjacent to a church. If the primary purpose
is to be a monastic residence, and the chapel is to serve the
Sisters living in the house and others in the neighborhood,
certainly both could be satisfied.
Father Magramm stated he could see this as a possibility but he did
not know if this would be practically feasible.
Ms. Bagaason stated the people next door would still have to look
at it.
Ms. Sherek stated they would not if it were hidden from view by the
garage.
Mr. Wolfe stated that it would not be hidden by the garage.
Mr. Barna stated that the garage is less than 10 feet from the rear
of the house.
Mr. Kondrick stated this is a possibility that can be explored.
Ms . Eppel stated that some of the things that she is hearing is
that the neighbors to the sides of the parcel are objecting to the
lack of their own privacy. Having the entrance in the back would
not satisfy this objection. Could the front of house be left alone
like a residential structure?
Mr. Barna stated there is the option of screening.
Ms. Garber asked why do they not use the living room. A living
room can be decorated any way a person wants. If you want your
articles and icons, why not you get a permit to expand your living
room.
Father Magramm stated they thought it was the proper thing to do,
to notify the neighborhood and go through the City. The church
could have done that as Ms. Garber suggested, but the church
decided to go through the City.
�� Ms. Driggins asked if this then gets back to the original question
of whether the special use permit is necessary. Would they have
�.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 20
the option to do the changes.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that he thought, if the City Attorney renders
a decision that a special use permit is not required, then
potentially that is the case.
MOTION by Paul Dahlberg, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to close the
public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED AND THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 9:15
P.M.
Mr. Kondrick stated the information presented would be reviewed and
an opinion rendered by the City Attorney. At that time, all of the
neighbors would be re-advised the next meeting. Before the
Planning Commission would be re-discussing this, he would presume
that the church would be discussing ideas presented during the
meeting.
Father Magramm stated he was glad to have met their neighbors
tonight and appreciate the neighbors' recommendations. They will
do whatever they could to make everyone happy and comfortable.
They did not plan to give out any more information. Anyone who
,,.-� wished to see the chapel and house was welcome to do so at any
time. They will answer the neighbors' questions. Father Magramm
stated the neighbors should feel free to be their friends.
Mr. Dahlberg asked for informal discussion. It would be useful if
the Planning Commission could bring up other issues that the City
Attorney could use as he rendered an opinion. In summary, there
are several issues that need to be addressed relative to parking
and traffic; use of this facility as a church, home, monastic
residence, or combination; and the tax exempt status. He felt that
the tax exempt status was not an issue here. Any home owned by a
church facility for its pastor is tax exempt or can be, so he did
not feel this was an issue. Mr. Dahlberg thought that there was
several things that should be addressed relative to not only use
of the facility but also relative to its appropriateness in the
neighborhood. Mr. Dahlberg heard and agreed that this home should
not have a character architecturally that is different from the
rest of the neighborhood. He would be hard pressed to vote for any
kind of a project where that type of entrance was used. The
architectural design must be very sensitive to the neighborhood.
He thought it would be in the best interests of all concerned to
remember that this still needs to be resolved. Mr. Dahlberg hoped
that the Planning Commission and the neighborhood could all look
at this objectively, and he thought that the use of this facility
as a residence can remain that irrespective of potentially not
allowing the addition. Mr. Dahlberg thought a church was a good
"�, neighbor and could remain so if this should not be allowed as a
worship facility.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 21
�
r-�,
Mr. Saba thought the Planning Commission should also take a look
at what could be there. In his neighborhood, a house was sold and
turned into rental property. The people that live there party
every weekend and there are 15-20 cars on both sides of the street.
A church can improve a neighborhood and there are benefits. Mr.
Saba agreed regarding the front of the building. The architecture
should be compatible with the neighborhood, and he would oppose a
structure that would make it different from the other homes in the
neighborhood. There may be a more compatible feature that would
be okay.
Mr. Barna stated that basically anyone can build a front porch on
the front of the house not to exceed 10 feet into the front yard
without designated design. Anyone could expand their house as long
as they did not exceed the side yard, rear yard, lot coverage
without a special use permit, with a building permit. That is all
that is needed for the front porch and for the covering of the
deck. With a special use permit, the design can be restricted.
If the Planning Commission did not issue a special use permit, the
architectural design cannot be restricted. A cross on the front
of the house cannot be restricted. There are controls under a
special use permit, but these expansions would likely be allowed
for an R-1 house.
Ms. Sherek stated there are concerns being expressed regarding
parking and traffic. If indeed the number of people attending
services averaged 8 to 12, she did not believe the traffic was
going to be significant. Parking in the neighborhood is a problem.
When looking at the house last week, she found that all along that
street it was hazardous to have cars parked. She did not think
that the impact of having 3 or 4 more cars on Sunday would be a
significant change. One concern is that anything placed in the
front yard that attracts attention or stops traffic. She would see
that as a hazard. If the house is really like a convent with a
chapel, then she didn't see that as a serious problem. However,
if it became a primary church, then it becomes a problem.
Mr. Kondrick asked when this item would be coming again before the
commission.
Ms. Dacy stated the tentative date for the Planning Commission
meeting on September 13th. Al1 those who have signed the sheet at
the meeting and those who signed the petition will be notified.
Mr. Kondrick thanked all for coming to the meeting. All are
welcome to come back to the September meeting to re-discuss the
issue.
� Mr. Barna stated that the related variance for this property is
scheduled for the Appeals Commission on August 22. This item would
be tabled at that meeting.
�"'
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 22
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to re-open the
public hearing.
UPOPT A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
AT 9:30 P.M.
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Saba, to table consideration
of Special Use Permit, #89-11, until review by the City Attorney
and for further discussion on September 13, 1989.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTIATG AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON RONDRICR
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Mr. Saba to close the public
hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND THE PUBLIC HEARING
CLOSED AT 9:33 P.M.
3. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
,�,, Ms. Dacy stated staff prepared a potential outline for the Land Use
chapter of the Comprehensive Plan. Analyzing what is in the
Comprehensive Plan now, essentially outside of the goals and
objectives, there are three to four pages left. The
recommendations are summarized on page 3A of the agenda. There are
issues that are larger in scope and issues for 90's, which will be
expanded and could be discussed in the overview section. When
staff is done with the plan, staff will re-write the Overview
section. The intent was to get comments on the outline for the
Land Use chapter if there is anything the Commission wants to see
done in this chapter.
Mr. Barna asked if staff intended to make up a large map which
gave a listing of major parks, major businesses, and more or less
gave the utilization for the entire city and a zoning map
designating zoning areas.
Ms. Dacy stated staff would be doing the land use plan through the
land use process once staff gets a confirmation as to what land
uses should be where. Staff will identify any inconsistencies
between the land uses on the land use map and zoning map. Then,
as staff proceeded, rezoning would occur to make both maps
consistent.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if the outline on 3b and 3c were the same as the
present land use plan.
�'"'�
Ms. Dacy stated this was completely different. The existing
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 23
�
Comprehensive Plan stated what the existing land use inventory was,
it had a map identifying major commercial centers, had an existing
land use map, and a few pages on goals and objectives. Under II,
the Existing Land Use Inventory was being significantly expanded.
The City would be talking about apartment densities, townhouse
densities which would help in making future decisions.
Mr. Dahlberg requested a change in wording under II. D. to read
"Public/Semi-Public".
Mr. Barna asked, regarding II. H. Inventory Blighted Areas, how
would staff determine what is a"blighted" area?
Ms. Dacy stated staff will use the State's definition of
substandard.
Mr. Dahlberg suggested having definitions incorporated into the
introductory statements.
Mr. Dahlberg requested additional information about VI. Visual and
Aesthetic Policies.
Ms. McPherson stated the City Attorney has recommended the City
adopt the Urban Design Standards.
�
Mr. Saba thought Fridley already had these.
Ms. Dacy stated the standards were being re-done.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if what was done was not adopted.
Ms. McPherson stated the only standards were those that had been
generated by the City Manager's office. There are some problems
with the language and procedural questions so they were being
reviewed.
Mr. Dahlberg thought the standards seemed excessive. Design
standards can be defined and incorporated without being excessive.
The City can run into difficulty if the standards are too specific.
Ms. Dacy stated these design standards would be for commercial and
industrial zones, and the City is looking at an ordinance in order
to enforce these standards.
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to accept the Larnd
Use Chapter as outlined with the changes in wording as noteda
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
� Mr. Dahlberg asked if the plan was on schedule.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989
�
PAGE 24
Ms. Dacy stated staff and the Planning Commission were pretty much
on schedule. Through the end of the year staff will be presenting
outlines identifying what needs to be changed. The first draft is
expected to be printed at the first of the year.
4. CONSIDERATIOIJ OF AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO ALLOW CHURCHES IN
CONIl�lERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS
Ms. Dacy state both commercial and industrial districts are being
looked at in consideration of this ordinance. In looking at the
existing churches, staff found that St. Williams is located in a
commercial zone. Staff came up with the recommendation for a
commercial district that a free standing church could be allowed.
If it was part of a multi-tenant building, staff would consider a
special use permit with several standards attached and included in
the ordinance.
Mr. Barna stated the Code presently allowed in an M-1 district a
certain area for recreational facilities for support of the M-1 use
of that particular property. By that definition, how can staff say
that a church would not be included. What is a church?
Ms. Dacy stated that staff had to go by the definition in the
ordinance. What staff told Steiner Development was that if the
�. word assembly was included in the M-1 language staff may have had
an interpretation issue.
Mr. Barna stated that a church could be considered a service.
Ms. Dacy stated that a church did not fit into the code definition
of service. There was no room for any interpretation for a church.
Mr. Saba indicated that the definition of a service has changed
over the years.
Mr. Barna stated that any business that did not produce a product
was a service.
Ms. Dacy indicated that in some cases the interpretation may be
taken that these are office uses. If the office uses are in an
M-1 area; they are related to the facility, and typically these
uses are not in commercial zones also.
Mr. Barna stated that, if the Planning Commission opens up the
ordinance, all sorts of things could come up.
Ms. Dacy stated that, if the Planning Commission looked at the lis�
of standards and most have standards, one could be trying to �aY_e
something work that should not be.
��"`� Mr. Barna felt churches could be allowed in commercial districts.
but he was not in favor of altering the M-1 and M-2 to allow uses
�.�.<
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, �UGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 25
over and above what is out there.
Mr. Dahlberg felt that, if this was allowed, there would be so many
restrictions and stipulations, that it may not make any sense. In
terms of location, hours of operation, not being able to do certain
things on the premises at certain times, if there was a way you
could cover every situation or occurrence, then it may be
acceptable, but does it make sense to have those stipulations.
Mr. Kondrick agreed.
Ms. Dacy stated there are some of the opinion that there are not
enough negatives to not allow an ordinance amendment.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that John Uban is a cons�ltant who wor➢cs for
communities. Does his recommendation reflect only his clients�
wishes.
Ms . Sherek stated there didn' �C seem to be a lot of strony arguments
against this particular church. But in other circumstances, it
could be much different. What the Planning Commission could see
is what the Planning Commission saw tonight. There are enough other
places for churches to go. If the purpose of an industrial zone
is to locate together so roads, etc. are together, the City
�.� shouldn't take another use and put it there because there is room.
Mr. Saba agreed. Once the City starts allowing other uses in
industrial zones, the City takes it away from industry.
Mr. Dahlberg stated, that by the same token, you take it away from
other districts.
Mr. Saba stated people are really upset with the amount of indust�y
there is in the City and the City is lucky to have it zoned and
located as it is. There are different levels for indus�rg.
Commercial is less objectionable.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that commercial is higher traffic at different
hours and is not as predictable as industry. He felt it didn�t
make sense to have churches in commercial areas. It didn'� make
sense to put churches in resialential districts. He thought it
made more sense to put them in industrial rather than comme�rc�.a....
Ms. Sherek felt the character was more similar to comi,�.ercialo
Ms. Dacy stated the only similarity staff came up w:..th was the
assembly. What was the difference between that and a churr.h? A
church could have a daily service. Are we hurting ava3�.able lancl,
the tax base, and industrial growth. The City cou�d sa� there are
hazards in industrial areas.
�� Mr. Dahlberg suggested creating a new district.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAG� 26
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Ms. Dacy suggested an institutional district.
Mr. Barna stated an industrial district could •�hen be restricted
to only manufacturing.
Ms. Sherek stated that is what our industrial area was originally
meant to be. Our society is moving away from industrial.
Mr. Saba stated that heavy manufacturing is moving out of this
country. Services and light industrial is what is now being done
in this country.
Ms. Dacy asked where would institutional distric�a be� Yocated, at
the edge of neighborhoods. The City may als� jt�st come full
circle.
Ms. Sherek stated that the kind of churches we a�a seeing are not
the "main line" community churches. These new churches want a
existing facility for small congregatio�s.
Ms. Dacy requested a motion, if the Planning Conimission agrees or
disagrees. Staff would then take the amendment bac;c to th� City
Council, discuss it and see if they want a pub�.�c hearinge
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Mr. Barna requested this be tabled until the comprehensive �lan is
` more complete so it can be included in the plan.
Mr. Dahlberg agreed since this is not an issu� rigi�t ;��r�o
Ms. Dacy stated there was no pressing neEd z�t this tia�e. Staff
will try to follow up and get direction.
Mr. Saba stated he did noit want to drop a� mu�h as gostpone as part
of the comprehensive plan.
MOTION by Mr. Barna, se�onded '�y Ms. She��k, to delay action on
this until it can be included in the Compr:Y;ensive P�an.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTIIYG AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERS�N KONDRICIt
DECLARED THE MOTIOIJ CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
(Mr. Saba left the meeting at 1Os25 p.m.j
5. CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDIIJAN�'� �IENDMENT REDTJCIAT�u �+'FgE RF;��JIRED
REAR YARD SETBACK ON CORT ; LOTS FRON: 25 k�E�T T� Y� F�ET
Ms. McPherson stated this is in response t� s�veral rear yard
variances within three months . The reasora staf f? s proper� ing this
is that often times when looking at a survey o� existing hauses,
�. there will be three or four interpretations on whicTn is �he sid�,
� front and rear yard. It makes determ�nation of the rear yard
,�
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 27
difficult if not impossible. Staff looked at other cities (chart
on 5B) and the only language would be an addition to the rear yard
definition in R-1 which states on 3A there is to be an addition
that the rear yard on corner lot would be 10 feet.
Ms. Dacy stated that language would be added that, on a corner lot,
a rear yard will be 10 feet. A definition of a corner lot is in
the definitions.
Mr. Barna stated the zoning definition is confusing.
Ms. Dacy stated that what would happen in the case where a house
is situated with the front on the long side of the lot, the long
side becomes the front and the opposite the rear. There is still
a definition needed to define the front. It comes down to two
front and two sides.
Ms. McPherson stated the setbacks between living structures would
be 20 feet. There could be a living space 10 feet from the
property line and an attached accessory structure 5 feet from the
lot line. There is the issue of detached accessory buildings which
is 3 feet from the rear lot line.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if 2 detached buildings could be within 6 feet
of each other?
Ms. McPherson stated yes.
Ms. Dacy stated the other option is why change it. Staff could
keep the language as is and continue to handle it through
variances.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if a person could state the front yard or does
this cause difficulty.
Ms. McPherson stated it did. There was one variance where both
corner sides had a 35 foot setback. There was also a variance
request for a garage and there were 3-5 interpretations that staff
could determine through the address file. That can be a problem.
If a house is fronting the long side, the code states the short
side is the front.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that sometimes the maximum is reached and
nothing more can be done. Why did the City have to bend? Why
couldn't the City just say we don't think you need it?
Mr. Barna stated the code cannot cover everything. Codes are
general.
Ms. Dacy felt the issue is whether the ordinance was frivolous or
�� was there a need. Staff was of the opinion that it was worth while
to pursue. The City could continue to process variances and look
�
PL�ANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 28
at it on a case by case basis.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if there was a way to change the language so
that there still are front and side yards on a corner lot and make
it easy to determine even though the house orientation may be
inappropriate.
Ms. Dacy stated the rear yard setback is which is the side yard
dimension. Both streets are front yards and both interiors are
side yards.
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to concur with the
Appeals Commission action for front and rear setback requirements
on corner lots.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KOATDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOU5LY.
6. RECEIVE THE MINUTES OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
MEETING OF JULY 10, 1989
This item was tabled for the next meeting.
7. RECEIVE THE MINUTES OF THE APPEALS CONIlKISSION MEETING OF JULY
r--.� 18 , 1989
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to receive the July
18, 1989, Appeals Commission minutes.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UATANIMOUSLY.
8. RECEIVE THE MINUTES OF THE APPEALS COMMISSION MEETING OF
AUGUST 1, 1989
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Mr. Barna, to receive the
August 1, 1989, Appeals Commission minutes.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON RONDRICK
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
9 . OTHER BUSIATESS :
Senior Housing Memorandum
Central Avenue Corridor Memorandum
Ms. Dacy stated these were information items and referred to the
respective memorandums included with the agenda.
�'",
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Mr. Barna, to adjourn the
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AUGUST 16, 1989 PAGE 29
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meeting.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, VICE-CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK
DECLARED THE AUGUST 16, 1989, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED
AT 10:40 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
�a� �
Lavonn Cooper
Recording Secretary
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PLANNING COZII�lI88ION MEETING, C� �� �T 1�� %�. Z