PL 10/25/1989 - 30711�
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 25, 1989
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CALL TO ORDER•
Chairperson Betzold called the October 25, 1989, Planning
Commission meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL•
Members Present: Don Betzold, Dave Kondrick, Dean Saba,
Sue Sherek, Alex Barna, Paul Dahlberg
Members Absent: None
Others Present: Barbara Dacy, Planning Coordinator
Michele McPherson, Planning Assistant
APPROVAL OF OCTOBER 11 1989. PLANNING COMMI5SION MINUTE5:
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to approve the October
^ 11, 1989, Planning Commission minutes as written.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
l. CONSIDERATION OF REVISED 5ITE PLAN FOR OSBORNE CROSSINGS. SBF
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION:
Ms. Dacy stated Mr. Farrell has requested that this item be tabled
because he wants to review the changes in the site plan with the
tenants who have signed leases. He is concerned about the legal
implications to these tenants and wants to make sure they will
accept these refinements. The tenants signed leases based on the
original plan approved by the City.
Ms. Dacy stated she would like the Commission to discuss some other
changes to the site plan that have been discussed with Mr. Farrell.
She would also like to give a brief overview of what the HRA is
considering. •
Ms. Dacy stated the Commission had received a revised site plan
for Osborne Crossings. The changes staff wanted Mr. Farrell to
address were those e�ressed by the Planning Commission: the type
of access from the site back to Commerce Lane, and to try to
improve the circulation out of the site onto the frontage road.
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^ PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING, OCT. 25, 1989 PAGE 2
The revised plan provides a full movement access from the site to
Commerce Lane.
Ms. Dacy stated staff reviewed the site plan with Mr. Farrell, and
staff was concerned about the stacking distance from Osborne to the
three lane intersection. Staff asked Mr. Farrell to look at an
option of shifting the driveway farther to the south in order to
accommodate more stacking on the frontage road and going both
directions on Osborne Road. Since that discussion yesterday, Mr.
Farrell has sent over two variations of that.
Ms. Dacy stated that under this plan, if the 3 lane driveway is
farther to the south and if the center spaces in front of the
theater become 9 x 18 (assuming the City Council changes the
ordinance on parking stall widths to 9 ft.), Mr. Farrell can
provide 309 spaces--4 spaces short of the 313 approved by the City
Council. However, if the parking space widths are not amended, and
he has to maintain a 10 ft. stall width in the center of the
development, he will lose 20 stalls for a total of 289 spaces.
Ms. Dacy stated Mr. Farrell has said 289 spaces is unacceptable to
the theater. The theater wants 310 spaces in front of the theater.
Mr. Farrell is trying to review these three site plans with the
theater people in Texas, as well as with the people for the other
n building slated to be Hardees.
Ms. Dacy stated that while the intersection does achieve that extra
stacking distance from Osborne, there may be a consideration of
what it does to the on-site traffic. Because of the angle,
probably half of the cars will be going out onto Commerce Lane and
the other half onto the service road. It is not a true "T" or 90
degree intersection as it was on the original plan.
Ms. Sherek asked what effect this reconfiguration will have on the
northbound traffic stacking at the curb. The traffic on the
frontage road moves very fast at 30-35 m.p.h., and it could be a
hazardous situation. Is there sufficient visibility coming from
the south? What is the line of sight?
Ms. Dacy stated the engineers seemed to feel that the sight
distance in that location was adequate. Sight distance was poorer
south of Hardees. However, what it might do is stack and maybe
block the Conoco station.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he did not think there was going to be that
much problem with the traffic from the Conoco station.
Ms. Sherek stated her problem was not with the traffic from the
Conoco station, but the traffic stacking to turn into the theater
^ site.
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PLANNINa COMMI88ION MEETINa. OCT. 25, 1989 PAGE 3
Mr. Barna suggested the parking spaces be angled aroun� the
perimeter and this would draw people around the parking lot for
better traffic flow.
Mr. Kondrick stated the more they talk about this, the more he
feels this is just not a good development for this site. It is
just cramming too much onto this property.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he met with Mr. Robertson and Ms. Dacy the
previous day to discuss the proposed plan with Mr. Farrell. Mr.
Dahlberg stated he expressed to Mr. Farrell that this revised plan
was a 100% improvement over what was previously submitted.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he thought the biggest consideration here is
that the Planning Commission reviewed the first plan and
recommended denial to City Council. City Council, in their
judgment, approved the plan as submitted. It was his understanding
that part of it was because this developer was not asking for any
monetary assistance to proceed; therefore, the City was willing to
make some concessions relative to the number of parking spaces,
variances for setbacks, parking stall size, and number of parking
spaces. This proposal as modified does not ask for any additional
variances. Mr. Farrell is asking for the same variances he was
given originally. He has retained about the same square footage,
but he has improved the traffic considerably.
Mr. Dahlberg stated the discussion yesterday with staff centered
around what is truly the City's involvement in terms of financial
obligation, because Mr. Farrell has come back asking for some
financial assistance from the City.
Mr. Dahlberg stated his understanding of the assistance being
requested by Mr. Farrell is that it is not costing the City
anything.
Ms. Dacy stated the October 23, 1989, memo outlines the procedure
the HRA has authorized, pending Planning Commission and City
Council approval of the revised site plan. The procedure is to
create a tax increment financing district for this parcel, and also
to evaluate adjacent parcels to the north, south, and west of this
site.
Ms. Dacy stated that right now, with the building on the site, the
taxes generated are approximately $50,000 a year. Right now the
schools get a portion, the County gets a portion, and the City gets
a portion, based on mill rates, of that $50,000. Once the tax
increment financing district is established, the schools, County,
and City still continue to receive those portions of the $50,000;
however, the amount of taxes generated from the development
estimated at $150,000 a year and up would all go to the HRA.
Ms. Dacy stated the financial consultant is recommending that for
the first 3 years, from 1992 - 1995, once the project is built,
� PLANNINQ CONIIdlISSION MEETINa, OCT. 25, 1989 PAGE 4
the HRA, in essence, returns the first 2/3 of the taxes to SBF.
The difference between what SBF gets and the HRA gets is to be used
by the HRA until the district is retired. Therefore, the theory
is that the HRA is gaining this amount of money to put back into
the district to help other parcels in the district. In essence,
the City or the HRA is not losing anything. They are getting back
the money the development is generating.
Ms. Dacy stated the tool they are using for the 3-year period is
called a limited revenue note. That document is going to satisfy
SBF�s banks and financing people that the revenue note, at least
for 3 years, is guaranteeing about $250,000 back into the project.
Mr. Betzold asked what happens if the business that goes onto this
property fails. He wondered what the long range viability is for
movie theaters.
Ms. Dacy stated the way it is set up, it is a"pay as you go"
proposition. If the project does not succeed, then they do not
get any money.
Mr. Kondrick asked why the developer needs assistance. Why can't
he get his own financing?
n Ms. Dacy stated the building currently on the site was built 20
years ago, and the demands of the market are different. Mr.
Farrell says he needs this particular amount of square footage to
make it work. The movie theater is unique, and that does dictate
some of the requirements he is getting from his financing people.
She stated even if this was an all retail development, they would
still have the same issues as far as parking and the ability of
getting enough retail on the site to succeed in today's market.
With this principle of the project having to pay for itself, it is
ensuring a low risk option to the City.
Ms. Sherek stated she agreed with Mr. Kondrick earlier when he
stated that too much is being put on this site. Do they want this
development on this site in the first place? At least one time
this Commission has said "no", that it is not an appropriate use
for that site because of the traffic considerations and
overbuilding of the site.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he did not agree, he thought what the Planning
Commission said previously was that the use on that site was o.k.,
but that much use on that site was not o.k.
Ms. Sherek stated as far as she was concerned, the developer is
still saying he wants to do the same thing. He is still looking
at parking easements with Perkins and parking easements across
�„1 Osborne Road with no assurances that there is a livable traffic
situation on Osborne Road. They are still looking at an overbuilt
site.
� PLANNINa CONII�ISBION I�EETINa. OCT. 25, 19$9 PAGE 5
Ms. Dacy stated if this was all retail, she believed they would
have more traffic problems. She thought the theater is an
advantage to the site. At least with the theater, they have some
off-peak usage. There are some trade-offs on the site. Nineteen
thousand square feet of retail space during the day is not going
to overflow that system.
Mr. Barna stated he did not see any major traffic problems during
the daylight hours.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that since they do not have to make any
decisions on this at this meeting, it would be helpful for the
Commission to have more information, especially regarding traffic.
When are the peak times? What is the traffic generated?
Ms. Dacy stated staff could put that information together as peak
hour traffic counts were taken at the Osborne/University Service
Road intersection.
Ms. Dacy stated that from her point of view, if the parking stall
reduction is not approved by the City Council, this alternative
then ends up reducing the parking spaces on site to 289, and they
know that is unacceptable to the theater. The Commission should
/� be aware that if the parking stalls stay at 10 x 18, they might
have to go back to the original plan in order to get the parking
needed on site.
Mr. Kondrick stated the main reason the Planning Commission
recommended denial of this development in the first place was
because they did not like the idea of parking easements across
Osborne Road. That was a key issue at that time. The City Council
and staff worked out parking easement arrangement with Perkins to
make shared parking possible. That changed things in terms of the
number of parking spaces. Again, he just did, not like this
development for this site.
Ms. Sherek stated the concern she had with the tax increment
financing district and HRA district for this site is that this
developer is going to cram every possible inch of this site. There
are surrounding properties that are going to want to do likewise,
and they will point to this development. The City is going to hear
the same argument from other developers saying it is too costly to
develop and they need to cram the site.
Mr. Kondrick stated he would not be in favor of moving the driveway
farther to the south.
Mr. Betzold stated he agreed. Moving the driveway might be
^ exacerbating the problem. Stacking is going to happen here anyway.
^ PLANNINa COMMI88ION MEBTINa. OCT. 25, 1989 PAGE_6
Mr. Dahlberg stated that from a traffic standpoint, however, from
his experience in working with site plans, moving the driveway
south will improve the potential problems on the frontage road.
It will allow more stacking on the frontage road. That is more
important than ease of maneuvering on the site. People will find
they cannot get onto the frontage road, and they will be forced or
encouraged to go to Commerce Lane, which is good. If the driveway
to the frontage road is farther to the north, people will not
perceive that they can get out onto Commerce Lane.
Mr. Betzold asked if it was possible to have signage saying "No
exit" onto the service road.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that is a possibility. Some people will obey
the sign, and some people will not. But, by means of some kind of
traffic sign, they can encourage more traffic to work the way it
should.
Mr. Dahlberg stated it would be helpful to have a traffic
consultant or engineer to at least do a visual analysis of this
site plan and give the Commission some input on whether this would
work or not.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he thought that by creating the drive that cuts
P"`� through the site on the east and on the west, once people get to
that point, they have to make a decision to go right or left.
Mr. Kondrick stated that once people experience this site, they
are going to realize traffic is bad and they will find the avenue
of least resistance to get out of the site.
Mr. Saba stated he definitely did not like the parking easement
across Osborne Road with Bob's Produce.
Mr. Barna stated it was his feeling that if it comes to the point
where the development cannot go without more parking spaces below
9 feet, retail space can be given up on the other building.
Ms. Dacy stated that at the next meeting, staff will bring back
information on the traffic circulation and peak traffic hours, an
update on the parking stall sizes, and what Mr. Farrell's tenants
have to say about this plan. Staff will also have a recommendation
to the Planning Commission.
2. REVIEW PROPOSED LANDSCAPE ORDINANCE
Ms. Dacy stated the Commission members had received a memo dated
October 23, 1989, explaining the revision to the Landscape
Ordinance. Staff is inserting the new requirements into an
^ existing section in each of the zoning districts, commercial and
industrial districts, and they are proposing R-3, as well. That
section will expand from A- C to A- L with a number of
� PLANNINa COMMISSION MEETING, OCT. 25, 1989 PAGE 7
subsections. Staff reorganized the ordinance to what they thought
would be most easily read by a developer or person of what is
required as far as landscaping.
Ms. Dacy stated she summarized some other changes in the memo, but
the major point is how will the ordinance requirements work on
sites within Fridley? Ms. McPherson had handed out a memo dated
October 25, 1989, summarizing two tests she did of the proposed
Landscape Ordinance requirements on the proposed McDonalds site at
81st/University Avenue and SBF Development at Osborne
Road/University Avenue.
Ms. Dacy stated staff feels strongly that this standardizes the
City's landscaping requirements. Staff has modernized the
requirements to be consistent with what other communities require.
They feel it is going to be a fair ordinance for property owners
within the community and will set some standards the Planning
Commission and City Council can be comfortable with.
Ms. McPherson stated she chose McDonalds and SBF Development
because they are very recent developments that have not been
constructed. However, older developments that may come in for
expansion were not tested.
� Ms. McPherson stated that with the provision in the ordinance for
the three year allowance for the installation of landscaping, this
will help alleviate a lot of fears the Chamber of Commerce has been
expressing to Jock Robertson. It will not require such a large
expense in the first or second year. This will probably help a lot
of businesses, as well as enable the City to get what it wants as
far as improving the environment. �
Ms. McPherson stated of the two developments, McDonalds is more
heavily planted than SBF Development. She reviewed the results of
the new landscape ordinance requirements for each development.
Ms. Dacy stated currently McDonalds does not have a berm and a 3
ft. continuous hedge along a portion of the site.
Mr. Dahlberg stated then it is not practical to have a 3 ft. hedge
along the University Avenue side, because the roadway is 4-5 feet
above the elevation of the parking lot..
Ms. Dacy stated the ordinance is not saying they have to screen 3
ft. above the elevation of the roadway. It is staff's
interpretation that a 3 ft. hedge should still be required to
screen the parking lot from any public right-of-way or adjacent
property, even though in McDonalds' case, there is a 4-5 ft.
elevation change. Otherwise, they can get into the argument of
�,,,� how tall does the road have to be above the property to stop
requiring hedges?
PLANNINa COMMI88ION MEETINa OCT. 25, 1989 PAaE 8
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Mr. Dahlberg stated that, using The Wholesale Club building
adjacent and to the west of the new McDonalds as an example, the
requirement for the berms and 3 ft. landscaped buffer was not from
the parking lot 3 ft. high, but 3 ft. above the street/curb right-
of-way. If the intention is to screen the parking from the right-
of-way or adjacent development, then the 3 ft. high landscaped
buffer interpretation does not make sense. So, in this case, how
valuable is that requirement?
Mr. Barna stated in this situation does it make sense to screen
the parking lot from the University Avenue right-of-way or the
parking lot from The Wholesale Club's parking lot, etc.? Whether
or not the screening is there is immaterial, but it looks nice.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that in defense of staff's interpretation,
because it is a public right-of-way and there is a large amount of
traffic on University Avenue, the cars that are parked in the
McDonalds parking lot facing University Avenue in the evening or
night with headlights shining toward University Avenue, with the
3 ft. berm, those headlights will not be a glare and have a
significance influence on the traffic on University Avenue.
Mr. Dahlberg stated the way the ordinance has been in the past is
that there has been some flexibility relative to interpretation or
n working with a given development to evaluate these kinds of things.
He still thought the City should still have that kind of position
or attitude about the landscape ordinance and not look at the
ordinance as the "letter of the law".
Ms . Dacy stated she is looking at the ordinance maybe in a less
flexible fashion, but she feels it is very important that they try
to be as consistent as possible. It gets to be a judgment
standpoint for staff, and she would prefer to tell a developer that
the 3 ft. hedge has to go all the way around the parking lot. To
make a judgment as far as 4 ft. versus 5 ft. of elevation down to
3 ft. might be going a little bit too far.
Mr. Betzold stated each piece of real estate is unique, but he
thought the philosophy is that a developer has to come in with a
landscape plan following these guidelines. Each developer is going
to have complaints about certain parts of the ordinance.
Mr. Dahlberg stated his only point is that staff should have a
certain amount of flexibility to be able to negotiate with each
project.
Ms. Dacy stated she wanted the minimum amount of trees and hedge.
There is a section of the ordinance that does give some flexibility
for existing developments.
�� Mr. Kondrick agreed with Ms. Dacy. It is important to have some
standards.
� PLANNING CO1rIIMI88ION MEETING OCT. 25. 1989 PAGE 9
Mr. Barna stated it is alright to have standardization as long as
the standard is something below the general standards, and also so
particular types of vegetation on an island, or on the end of a
driving aisle or internal driving aisle, for example, not be so
high as to block the view.
Ms. Dacy stated there should be and staff did intend to include
some site distance requirements. Those will under Section J.
Installation.
Mr. Betzold stated apparently the Chamber of Commerce was concerned
about up front costs. Suppose a developer agrees to do certain
things, but a couple of years later has not done those things?
What recourse does the City have?
Ms. Dacy stated the City would retain the letter of credit or
performance bond until the landscaping is completed. They will
need to retain the letter of credit or performance bond for a
longer period of time with the 3 year installation period. That
is more of an incentive to complete the landscaping as soon as
possible, because it does cost the developer more to carry a
performance bond for another year.
,� Ms. McPherson stated the McDonalds and SBF Development landscape
plans were examples to show the Commission how the new landscaping
restrictions will be calculated and how they will work
administratively.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that now there is a provision for. landscaping
to be done over a 1-2-3 year period. He would personally like to
see some of the over-story trees planted in the first year. The
proposed ordinance says that all that needs to be done the first
year is grading and sod or seed and screening for residential. He
would like to see some planting in the first year other than
screening from residential. He suggested adding an item 5) under
Section 6.J.(2).a) that would require a reasonable percentage of
over-story trees or shrubbery or plant materials in the first year.
Mr. Dahlberg stated the language in the ordinance should in no way
prohibit a developer from doing all the landscaping in the first
year. The sooner the plant materials are put in, the more they are
going to enhance the project.
Mr. Saba stated he saw the performance bond as the leverage to get
the landscaping done as soon as possible.
Mr. Dahlberg stated maybe there could be a preliminary statement
under Installation that encourages developers to do all the
^ landscaping in one year. Also, under 6.J.(2), it should say "u�
to three (3) years" rather than just ��three years�'.
^ PLANNINa COMMIBBION MEETING, OCT. 25. 1989 PAGE 10
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Mr. Dahlberg stated he wondered how this landscaping ordinance is
going to be included in the Zoning Ordinance. The way he
understood it is that in every zoning classification where
landscaped requirements are going to be mandatory (10-11
districts), staff is proposing to include all 8 pages of the
landscaping ordinance in each zoning district. That means adding
80-88 pages to the Zoning Ordinance. Is that efficient?
Ms. Dacy stated staff has discussed this. The way staff is doing
it now is if a developer comes in and wants to do a project, staff
gives that individual that zoning district's packet of material.
The way the original writer of the Zoning Ordinance set it up,
everything is all in one district. The efficiency point could be
addressed to the whole Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he understood what Ms. Dacy was saying, but
when he goes to a City, he prefers to have the whole ordinance,
rather than a part of the ordinance. The issue then is reprinting
the entire ordinance and having multiple copies available for any
one requesting them at a certain monetary charge. Landscaping is
the kind of section where it applies to so many districts that
maybe in each district, they could just have some basic "boiler
plate" information about what the landscaping requirements are, and
then refer to the landscaping section, the signage section, etc.
Ms. Dacy stated that is a good suggestion.
The Commission members commended Ms. McPherson and Ms. Dacy for an
excellent job in revising the Landscape Ordinance.
3. RECEIVE SEPTEMBER 19, 1989, JOINT ENVIRONMENTAL OUALITY,/ENERGY
COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Saba, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to receive the
September 19, 1989, joint Environmental Quality/Energy Commission
minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
T8E MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
4. RECEIVE OCTOBER 2, 1989, PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to receive the
October 2, 1989, Parks and Recreation Commission minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPLRSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
^ 5. RECEIVE OCTOBER 10. 1989. APPEALS COMMISSION MINUTES:
PLANNINa COMMI88ION MEETINa. OCT. 25, 1989 PAGB 11
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MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Mr. Saba, to receive the October
10, 1989, Appeals Commission minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CBAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Mr. ICondrick, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to adjourn the
meeting. IIpon a voiae vote, all votinq aye, Chairperson Betzold
declared the october 25, 1989, Planninq Commission meetinq
adjourned at 9:15 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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Lynn ba
Recording Secretary
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