PL 11/08/1989 - 30712/-1
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLAN1eTING COMMIBBION MEETINC�, NOVEMHER 8, 1989
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairperson Betzold called the November 8, 1989, Planning
Commission meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Don Betzold, Dave Kondrick, Dean Saba,
Sue Sherek, Alex Barna, Paul Dahlberg
Members Absent: None
Others Present: Jock Robertson, Community Development
Director
Barbara Dacy, Planning Coordinator
Michele McPherson, Planning Assistant
APPROVAL OF OCTOBER 25. 1989 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES:
� MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to approve the
October 25, 1989, Planning Commission minutes as written.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BBTZOLD DECLARED
T8E MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
l. CONSIDERATION OF LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT STATION LOCATIONS:
Mr. Robertson stated that at an earlier meeting he had asked the
Commission to reconsider some of their earlier recommendations
because of new data on the park and ride lots. He was concerned
about what it might do to traffic volumes on the intersections.
The Commission wanted more data and gave staff some policy
directions and questions. He stated he has received answers to
those questions.
Mr. Robertson stated the park and ride location at University/
Mississippi will not, in the independent judgement of both an in-
house traffic engineer and the BRW traffic engineers, significantly
load up the University/Mississippi intersection. This is partly
because the park and ride station is in the most advantageous
location at the 10,000 Auto Parts site. They would not necessarily
need all the 300 spaces even on an expanded 10,000 Auto Part site.
Some spaces could be located in the Holly Shopping Center and in
the southwest quadrant. People coming from the west side of
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University might choose to park at Holly, so they do not have to
cross University to park.
Mr . Robertson stated the other concern he had was capturing the
retail sales. The BRW economic consultants say that, although that
might happen, they do not think that is a significant
consideration. About the possible impact on 73rd Avenue, even if
they take the worst case and say there were 500 spaces at Columbia
Arena and all the cars went down 73'rd Avenue, that amounts to less
than a 10% increase in the traffic already projected for 71st
Avenue.
Mr. Robertson stated staff is recommending that the City consider
a combination commercial development and park and ride station at
an expanded 10,000 Auto Parts site as its first priority in terms
of serving the Center City area. There is also an advantage in
that it is located most effectively for feeder bus traffic, because
of the access to East River Road under the railroad tracks on
Mississippi Street.
Mr. Robertson stated staff is recommending the Planning Commission
consider the Mississippi Street location as its first choice for
a park and ride, understanding that it may have to be expanded and
the Planning Commission consider Columbia Arena as a back-up park
�"� and ride site if they get a lot more usage over time than they can
accommodate on the Mississippi/ University Avenue site.
Mr. Robertson stated he has briefed Mayor Nee and HRA Chairperson
Larry Commers on Monday. They agreed with the Planning Commission
that to have exclusive park and ride at the 10,000 Auto Parts site
was a terrible waste of valuable property. It should only be
considered as a multi-use site; in other words, a transit station,
park and ride, plus some retail or office activity. They suggested
that the HRA look at expanding the 10, 000 Auto Parts site along
Mississippi Street which will improve the access, move the
driveways further away from the intersection, and try to get more
multi-use on the site. He stated he has been authorized to make
an offer on the house that is for sale next to 10,000 Auto Parts.
Mr. Dahlberg stated it would be more desirable, particularly from
the standpoint of traffic, if they could expand the 10,000 Auto
Parts site all the way to 5th Street.
Mr. Barna stated the best thing would be to plan the park and ride
at Mississippi but not pass up the ability to designate the
Columbia Arena parking lot as an alternate park and ride. At
Columbia Arena there would be no need for any property acquisition
or changes.
^ Mr. Robertson stated he has asked the BRW consultants to bring to
the next meeting the feeder bus route preliminary plans for both
Mississippi Street and Columbia Arena.
PLANNING COMMI86ION MEETINa, NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PAGE 3
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Mr. Dahlberg stated that in his memo, Mr. Robertson had indicated
that one of the key concerns is the issue of pedestrian traffic
across University Avenue if there are designated parking spaces at
either at Holly Center or somewhere in the southwest quadrant.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he was not sure if he concurred that signal
timing would solve that problem. What other options might be
available and how can the City explore funding of those options?
One option is a pedestrian bridge over University Avenue.
Mr. Robertson stated that when he and Ms. Dacy met with the BRW
people the previous Friday, they brought up the possibility of a
pedestrian bridge.
Mr. Dahlberg stated if the City says that if there is a station
located at Mississippi/University, there has to be a bridge across
University Avenue, can a bridge be included in BRW's construction
costs and budgeting?
Mr. Robertson stated he did not know the answer to that question.
He stated there is the handicapped access problem which makes it
even more expensive, because there has to be a ramp or elevator at
each end.
!'� Mr. Dahlberg stated it would make sense that a bridge be located
north at 66th Avenue, so there is enough distance for the ramp on
each side.
Ms. Slierek stated there is also the safety factor of children
crossing University Avenue on their bicycles.
Ms. Dacy stated the biggest concern with a bridge is, obviously,
the cost. With the elevator, they quoted a cost of $900,000.
Ms . Dacy stated the other concern is that obviously they do not
have the background of the use of pedestrian bridges for LRT
stations. BRW is also basing their concern on the use of
pedestrian bridges in general. A bridge certainly deserves further
study. There are other areas along the corridor that will not have
the capacity for parking on the same side of the street as the LRT
station, so the crossover issue will come up.
Ms. Sherek stated if they balance the cost of using the existing
parking in Holly Center for a portion of the LRT parking, using
the land makes the bridge less costly. A bridge would also provide
another enhancement for this particular intersection for all
purposes, not just LRT.
Mr. Kondrick stated he was not so sure merchants at Holly Shopping
� Center are going to be interested in having cars in their parking
lot to use the LRT station. Until the 10,000 Auto Parts site can
PLANNIN(3 COMMI88ION MEETINa, NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PAGE 4
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be enlarged to handle all the parking spaces on that site, he was
not in favor of a bridge.
Mr. Saba disagreed. He stated he thought a bridge is a necessity
at this intersection, not only for the convenience factor, but also
for the safety factor. He would like to see the bridge whether or
not all the parking is handled on the 10,000 Auto Parts site. It
will add a safety factor for children crossing the LRT tracks.
Mr. Kondrick stated a bridge is a novelty thing. He did not think
seniors or children are going to walk up a long ramp, across the
street, and then walk down the long ramp.
Mr. Dahlberg stated there was nothing that said the bridge could
not be on the south side of the University/Mississippi intersection
and incorporate it into the southwest quadrant development, tie it
into the Center City Plaza area in some way. The biggest
difficulty is dealing with the Fire Station.
Mr. Dahlberg asked what was the anticipated number of parking
spaces required off the site on the west side if the LRT station
is located here?
Mr. Robertson stated he did not know. He did know a minority would
^ be on the Holly Center side. He would estimate 50-100 parking
spaces.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that even at the busiest time for Holly Center,
all the parking spaces on the northeast end of the site are always
empty. LRT parking would be a good use for that parking area.
Mr. Robertson stated the parking spaces in the southeast corner,
just south of Snyders, are used little also.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he would like staff to express the Planning
Commission's concern and desire to have a pedestrian bridge be
seriously considered at the University/Mississippi intersection.
Mr. Saba stated he had two major concerns for this intersection.
One is safety, especially with children. The other one is it is
a terrible waste of space for just an LRT station that may or may
not go in.
Mr. Dahlberg stated if the HRA does acquire additional land to
double the size of the 10,000 Auto Parts site, that becomes a
pretty significant parcel. Does it make sense to make that a
parking lot for small retail/office versus a pretty good sized
office building project?
^ Mr. Saba stated the City might not get the development they want
on this property if the property is up for 5-8 years waiting for
a possible LRT.
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PLANNING COMMI88ION MLETIN�3. NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PAGE 5
Mr. Robertson stated he agreed, and that is why Mayor Nee and HRA
Chairperson Commers are asking staff to proceed with redevelopment
to see if they can keep the following options open (listed in order
of priority):
1. the rail line
2. the station
3. the parking
Mr. Dahlberg stated he thought the Planning Commission has pretty
much agreed that there should be a station at the University/
Mississippi intersection, whether it is a park or ride or a"kiss
and ride", etc.
Mr. Robertson stated staff also discussed with BRW a two level use
of the 10,000 Auto Parts site. Whether the upper level would be
used for parking or for shops would depend on a market feasibility
study.
Mr. Kondrick stated it is nice to use the property for retail/
office use, but how will it attract customers if the parking is
for LRT users?
Ms. Sherek stated they could conceivably put offices and park and
ride on the same site, because they could designate parking spaces
that belong to just the offices.
Ms. Sherek stated she is concerned about the access to Columbia
Arena as an alternate site. In looking at Fridley as a whole and
how people are going to get to the Arena, the access is not good.
There is no access east/west. Traffic has to go up to Osborne or
down to Mississippi to get to the west.
Mr. Robertson stated that is why he is convinced that Columbia
Arena should only be looked at as a back-up site.
Mr. Dahlberg stated if it is possible to make it work at
University/Mississippi, then that is where the park and ride site
should be located.
Mr. Robertson stated BRW has approached the Immanuel Christian
Center at University/Osborne Road, and they are very interested in
some type of compromise with the Rail Authority to assume some of
the ownership and maintenance of their parking lot.
Mr. Robertson stated that regarding the 57th site, Mayor Nee and
HRA Chairperson Commers again feel that it is a terrible waste to
^ use this site for only park and ride. The main reason is this is
the gateway to the City. Again, they want staff to look into the
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PLANNIN(� COMMI68ION MELTIN(�, NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PAGE 6
possibility of multi-use or even eliminating the park and ride
station from 57th, and if the LRT switches over to Central on the
south side of I-694, plan the station on the east end of the Target
shopping center.
Mr. Kondrick stated the 57th Street site is elevated to the east
of University Avenue, 5-6 ft. higher than the street level.
Wouldn't it be out of sight of the traffic coming from the south
on University Avenue?
Ms. Sherek stated if the LRT is going to go along University, and
there is a station at Mississippi and a station somewhere around
51st Avenue, why do they need another station at 57th?
Ms. Dacy stated the main reason is for the traffic off I-694. She
stated here are a lot of outstanding problems with the 57th site
right now.
Mr. Robertson stated Mr. Kondrick had raised a point he had not
thought about and that is that if there is a park and ride at 57th
and if the LRT did not have to go over I-694, it might be possible
to hide much of the parking to the east. It would not necessarily
need to be right at the gateway to Fridley.
Mr. Dahlberg stated when the projections are made of 2,000 cars
between I-694 and Northtown on University Avenue, he would like to
know what the area of draw is.
Ms. Sherek stated that more than that, they need to demonstrate
how they determine how many of those people are even going to
downtown Minneapolis in the first place.
Mr. Robertson stated two public information meetings have been
scheduled. The first one is for the Minneapolis portion only on
Monday, November 20, 1989, 7:00 p.m. at Edison High School. The
second one is for the Southern Anoka County portion, I-694 to
Minneapolis, on Wednesday, November 29, 1989, 7:00 p.m. at Murzyn
Hall in Columbia Heights. A meeting time for northern Anoka County
has not yet been scheduled.
Mr. Robertson asked if the Planning Commission wished to have a
briefing before that public meeting from the consultants. Does
the Commission want mailing to go out to the citizens at the public
meeting stage or at the public hearing stage?
Ms. Sherek stated she would like notices to go out for the public
meeting stage.
Mr. Dahlberg stated the earlier, the better. This also illustrates
to the people that the City feels it is important that they know
� about these meetings.
PLANNIN(� COMMIBBION MEETING. NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PAGE 7
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Mr. Betzold stated he would also like to see notices at the public
meeting stage. He would just as soon not have a briefing before
the meeting.
Mr. Kondrick stated that 20-25 years from now when in theory the
LRT has e�anded out to Anoka, perhaps Ramsey, East Bethel, etc.,
and more park and ride stations are necessary. He would then think
the significance of the parking lots in the City of Fridley would
be greatly diminished. He would like to have the flexibility so
those parking lots could then be changed back to something else.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that in the situation described by Mr.
Kondrick, when an area is no longer needed for parking, is there
an option where the City or HRA can own the property and lease it
to the County and the Rail Authority, rather than the County
purchasing the property?
Ms. Sherek stated this raised a question raised by the Planning
Commission in the early discussions, and that was: Do they have
to build all these stations at initial construction? BRW is saying
they need 2,000 parking spaces, but what is wrong with starting out
with Northtown, Mississippi/University, 51st or Target, and then
when there is the demand five years later, they build another
station.
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Ms . Dacy stated they would have to have the land reserved under
that option.
Mr. Saba stated they have to be somewhat careful, because just the
potential "need" for a parking lot in a certain area can stop or
slow development.
Mr. Barna stated his main concern about LRT is they are talking
about public bodies developing the parking spaces. In looking at
other cities, the vast majority of parking ramps are privately
owned. Why isn't the City of Fridley looking at some type of two-
level parking ramp/retail development on the southwest corner with
assistance from the HRA, so that when or if the LRT does go in,
they can use the extra space for retail or whatever?
2. CONSIDERATION OF CENTRAL AVENLTE CORRIDOR IMPLEMEATTATION PLAN:
Ms. Dacy stated the Planning Commission spent quite a bit of time
discussing this last spring and summer, and it went to the Council
Conference meeting in July. She thought the Council members
appreciated the exercise of going through the land use planning and
intent. Their concern was there are other priorities in the
community as far as development and tax increment dollars.
Ms. Dacy stated that she used a diamond model to analyze the plan
�` for improvements along Central Avenue, whether those are land use
PLANNINa CONIlKI88ION MEETIN�. NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PAGE 8
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or physical improvements. The four components of the diamond are
Mission, Power, Structure, and Resources.
Ms. Dacy stated they are looking at three phases over the next ten
years. The components of Phase I respond to the Council's mission
of land use compatibility and appearance. The components of Phase
II depend on market forces to determine the timing of the various
components. The components of Phase III emphasize economic
development and redevelopment.
Ms. Dacy stated staff is asking for the Planning Commission's
concurrence of this phased approach with any recommended changes.
Staff's intent is to present any recommended changes and this
analysis to the City Council for review and concurrence.
Mr. Kondrick commended staff on a tremendous outline.
Ms. Sherek stated the area from Onan north on Central Avenue is in
danger of becoming a slum, and it is getting worse every year. Do
they want to let that happen? There are already pockets like this
in the City, and do they want to add to it? By coming up with a
comprehensive plan and continuing toward systematic code
enforcement, and having other plans for these properties if they
should go up for sale. They need to put the plan together and have
,^ some kind of "vision" of what Central Avenue should look like.
With Moore Lake Commons, there is going to be spin-off development.
The Commissioners agreed.
Mr. Kondrick stated they have to be very specific about what they
want to see along the Central Avenue Corridor.
Mr. Barna stated that whether Onan develops or not, they want to
see that northwest corner changed, from 73rd Avenue to Fireside.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he did not think it was appropriate for the
Commission, as a planning body, to dictate the types of development
unless it is within a specified district like this is. Within a
tax increment district, they can do that, but outside the district,
they cannot. If Onan does not develop, then the district is
reduced dramatically. They can change the boundary, but not
significantly, because 700 of the land area has to be considered
blighted. So, it becomes a very small area that they have any
influence or control over. He thought a plan is good, and this
outline is an excellent beginning.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to accept the
Central Avenue Corridor Implementation Plan as submitted by staff.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYS, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
^ THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
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PLANNIN(3 COIrIIMI88ION MEETIN(�, NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PAGE 9
3. CONSIDERATION OF 1990 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING DATES:
Ms. Dacy stated staff is proposing two options for 1990 Planning
Commission meeting dates. Currently, the Planning Commission meets
the same week as the City Council. This method produces an
irregular schedule and poses some problems for staff in preparing
two or more agenda packets in one week. The Council wants to
maintain meeting on the first and third Mondays for consistency.
The Council is willing to go along with whatever option the
Planning Commission chooses--the same week as Council, as it has
been in the past; or, switching to the second and fourth
Wednesdays.
Mr. Barna stated that since the Council has decided they want to
continue to have final action on all variances, because of the
current process where the Appeals Commission minutes must first be
received by the Planning Commission before going to the Council,
this delays the petitioner up to 20 days. If they go to a new
schedule, then the City Council should have some kind of pipeline
where the Appeals Commission minutes can bypass the Planning
Commission.
Mr. Betzold agreed. The Planning Commission will receive the
minutes anyway. It did not matter when the minutes come to the
Planning Commission.
Mr. Betzold stated he had no problem with changing the meeting
dates to the second and fourth Wednesdays. If it does not work,
they can always change back.
Ms. Sherek stated that if they change these dates, then staff
should be sure and tell builders and developers the timeline up
front.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he would like to see the Planning Commission
meetings scheduled every second and fourth Wednesdays, except in
January, May, and July.
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Saba, to adopt a calendar
for the Planning Commission for 1990, changing the meeting dates
to the second and fourth Wednesdays, except in those months
(January, May, July) when the second and fourth Wednesdays follow
the Council meetings. The 1990 meeting dates are as follows:
January 17 and 31
February 14 and 28
March 14 and 28
April 11 and 25
May 16 and 30
June 13 and 27
July 11 and 25
August 15 and 29
September 12 and 26
October 10 and 24
November 14 and 28
December 12
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PLANNING COl�lI88ION MEETIN�3, NOVEMBER 8, 1989 PA(3L 10
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPER80N BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
4. RECEIVE OCTOBER 12. 1989. HOUSING & REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
MINUTES•
MOTION by Mr. Barna, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to receive the
October 12, 1989, Housing & Redevelopment Authority minutes.
OPON A VOICE VOTE, AI,L VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
ADJOURNMENT•
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to adjourn the
meeting. IIpon a voice vote, all votinq aye, Chairperson Betzold
declared the October 12, 1989, Planninq Commission meetinq
adjourned at 9:05 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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� Lyn e aba
Recording Secretary
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