PL 07/11/1990 - 30981i''�
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� CITY OF FRIDLEY
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PLANNING COMMIBBION MEETING� JIILY 11, 1990
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CALL TO ORDER•
Chairperson Betzold called the July 11, 1990, Planning Commission
meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
ROLL CALL•
Members Present: Don Betzold, Dave Kondrick, Dean Saba,
Sue Sherek, Paul Dahlberg, Larry Ruechle
(for Diane Savage), Connie Modig
Members Absent: None
Others Present: Jock Robertson, Community Development Director
Barbara Dacy, Planning Coordinator
Richard Mochinski, Chisago City
Joel Cason, Moose Lodge #38
(See attached list)
APPROVAL OF JUNE 20. 1990 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Mr. Saba, to approve the June
20, 1990, Planning Commission minutes as written.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CBAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Kuechle, to approve the
agenda with the following addition: Consideration of Approval of
a Resolution to Determine Consistency of the Redevelopment
Project with the Comprehensive Plan.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
1. PUBLIC HEARING• CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP
#90-10, BY RICHARD MOCHINSKI: Per Section 205.13.01.C.(1)
of the Fridley City Code to allow theaters, lodges, and
assembly facilities on Lots 17 and 18, Block 2, Spring
Valley, generally located at Rice Creek Road and Central
Avenue N.E.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to waive the
^ reading of the public hearing notice and open the public hearing.
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PLANNING COIrIIrlI88ION MEETIN(�. JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 2
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON RONDRICK DECLARED
THE.MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOII3LY.
Ms. Dacy stated this subject parcel is located east of and
adjacent to Central Avenue, just south of the new fire station.
The property is zoned C-1, Local Business. The site has been the
subject of a number of zoning requests. The most recent one was
in 1986 when the property owner, Mr. Mochinski, petitioned for a
rezoning from C-1 to R-3, Multiple Family Dwelling, for the
construction of townhomes on not only this site, but the site
which is now occupied by the fire station. At that time, the
Planning Commission recommended approval; however, the City
Council denied the rezoning request. The Council felt the
development density of the proposal was too high for the site.
Ms. Dacy stated Mr. Mochinski is requesting a special use permit
in the C-1 district which is different than a rezoning request.
The C-1 zoning will not change; however, the special use permit
is stating that in order to build a lodge facility, a special use
permit is needed. The Zoning Ordinance also states that the
maximum capacity of a lodge and assembly facility must be less
than 300 people.
� Ms. Dacy stated a 7,000 sq. ft. single story building is being
proposed for the property. There will be one driveway to provide
access into and out of the site. The parking area will be
located in front of the building, along the side of the building,
and at the rear of the building. There is available space at the
rear of the building for an additional 38 parking spaces if it is
needed. To the rear or along the east lot line, the petitioner
is proposing a detention pond which will detain the runoff from
the property for the required amount of time and discharge that
into a pipe or swale along the south lot line and discharge into
the stormwater system under Central Avenue.
Ms. Dacy stated that, as required by code, the petitioner has
also proposed the construction of a 6 ft. wood fence privacy
fence which will begin at the corner of the rear of the fire
station and continue along the north lot line to the east lot
line and down again to the south lot line. This abuts the R-1
zones to the north and to the east.
Ms. Dacy stated the proposed site plan meets all the setback
requirements and parking requirements as required by the C-1
district. The petitioner has submitted a landscaping plan which
aonforms to the landscaping requirements.
Ms. Dacy stated the proposed construction materials is a painted
^ rock face block and colored metal trim along the roofline of the
building. The petitioner is proposing a sign indicating the
Moose Lodge #38 and three flags.
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PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING, JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 3
Ms. Dacy stated that based on the fact that the proposed site
plan meets the requirements of the C-1 district--screening,
landscaping, parking, lot coverage, and drainage issues, staff is
recommending approval of the request with the following five
stipulations:
1. Lot 17 and 18 shall be combined into one tax parcel.
2. A drainage and utility easement shall be reserved over
the east 30 feet of the parcel and shall be submitted
prior to the issuance of a building permit.
3. A street easement shall be reserved over the east 30
feet of the parcel and shall be submitted prior to the
issuance of a building permit.
(Ms. Dacy stated the easement would accommodate a future
street right-of-way in order to preserve the ability for
resubdivision of the parcels to the north and east of the
site.)
4. A special use permit shall be approved prior to any
building expansion.
5. Maximum seating capacity shall be limited to 300
persons, or the regulations provided by the Fire Code,
whichever is most restrictive.
Mr. Betzold asked Ms. Dacy to give a brief description of the C-1
district and the permitted uses in that zone.
Ms. Dacy stated the C-1 district is the local business district.
Its intent is for commercial/residential/services uses.
Physically, in the zoning pattern in the City, the C-1 zone is
often adjacent to R-1 or R-2 areas. She read the list of
principal uses permitted in the C-1 zone.
Ms. Dacy stated the C-2 district is more intensive and permits by
right more uses.
Mr. Betzold stated that in looking at this particular block, with
the fire station to the north, and commercial property to the
south, how does staff view the proposed development for this
block? Should this particular property remain commercial?
Ms. Dacy stated there are a number of factors. Right now the
entire site is zoned C-1 as compared to other sites to the north
where the frontage of the parcels are zoned commercial and the
rear is zoned is single family residential. By right, if a
^ property owner came to the City tomorrow and wanted a building
permit for any of the permitted uses in the C-1 district, the
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PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING, JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 4
City would have to grant it. What is being proposed can be
called a transition use in the effect that it is not a typical
commercial/retail use. It is obviously not a convenience store.
It doesn't have a lot of the peak hour traffic that is associated
with a commercial use such as a strip shopping center, a
convenience store, or an office building. Rather, it is a use
that experiences a lot of traffic in the non-peak hours, more
similar to a restaurant use than anything else.
Mr. Richard Mochinski, 27540 Kirby Lane, Chicago City, stated he
is the petitioner and owner of the property. He had two things
to add to that stated by Ms. Dacy. (1) There is a tremendous
soil correction problem in this area. The poor soil conditions
were taken into account when locating the building on the site.
(2) The project itself is very underscale in proportion to the
land. If they were to build an office building on this site,
they would build approximately 28,000 sq. ft. with about 80
parking spaces. With the Moose Lodge, they are proposing a 7,000
sq. ft. building and virtually leaving the back half of the
property vacant. So, if future parking is never needed, there
will be about 100 ft. of green area at the rear of the building.
The building will be one-story with an attractive entranceway.
They have done an extensive landscaping proposal.
� Mr. Mochinski stated that of the 7,000 sq. ft., approximately
2,800 sq. ft. is hall/banquet facilities, approximately 1,000 sq.
ft. is office/kitchen, and the remaining square footage is the
bar. On the north side of the property they have enclosed a very
small patio with a horseshoe pit which is doubly enclosed with
the 6 ft. fence to reduce any sound that will be created by the
functions outside the patio.
Mr. Mochinski stated the building is somewhat in the center of
the site; however, they tried to place it as far north as
possible towards the fire station because the soil is better
there. He thought that with the scale of the project, it should
fit the neighborhood very well.
Mr. Mochinski stated members of the Moose Lodge were at the
meeting to answer questions the Planning Commission members might
have.
Mr. Saba asked about exterior lighting.
Mr. Mochinski stated there is minimal lighting. There will be a
post light in back that lights up the parking lot, and lighting
from the building in front and on the masonry sign that covers
the three flag poles.
^ Mr. Joel Cason stated he is the past-Governor of the Moose Lodge
#38 in Minneapolis. He is now serving as the Secretary. The
Moose Lodge is a fraternal organization. There are 1,200 Moose
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Lodges in the United States, 37 in Minnesota. Moose Lodge #38 is
the second oldest, and they have been displaced from their
building in Minneapolis at 624 - 3rd Avenue N.E. It is a working
man's lodge. Mooseheart is a city in Illinois about 30 miles
from Chicago, which is a type of orphanage. All the Moose Lodges
support it and take care of it. Mooseheart also governs the
Moose Lodges.
Mr. Cason stated the Moose Lodge is different from an
organization like the Knights of Columbus in that it is strictly
for Moose members and guests only. They have been good neighbors
in their community in fund raising and civic affairs.
Mr. Betzold stated that the Moose Lodge is normally for Moose
members only. How many members are there in Moose Lodge #38?
Mr. Cason stated they have about 850 members right now. It is an
older men's lodge. The average age is 55. He is a third
generation Moose member. They do have a variety of activities
for children and younger members. They have weddings and dances
on Friday and Saturday nights for members and guests only. The
Moose patrol and take care of their people so there is no
trouble. Out of 850 members, approximately 100-150 are in
attendance on a good evening.
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Mr. Kondrick asked if Mr. Cason thought the parking lot as
proposed is adequate for their usage.
Mr. Cason stated that in Minneapolis they had one acre of ground
with 75 parking spaces. Most of the time, that 75 spaces were
adequate. Once in awhile, members would have to park on the
street. The proposed parking spaces for this new site are 120,
and that is more than adequate.
Ms. Modig asked how soon the Moose Lodge could foresee the
expansion of the rear parking area.
Mr. Cason stated it is difficult to know that, but he thought it
would be quite awhile before they do any expanding. It also
depended on how soon they got new members.
Ms. Sue Rau, 1341 - 64th Avenue, asked if the Moose Lodge would
be applying for a liquor license.
Mr. Cason stated they would certainly apply for one.
Ms. Dacy stated that if the Moose Lodge does apply for a liquor
license, because they are a private club, the liquor ordinance
defines it as a"bottle club", and they have to pay a$300
^ SafetCaDirector�andhtheaCit1cCouncils rIf1thedMoosehLod�elac lies
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for a beer license, that requires a public hearing process before
PI,ANNING CONII�iI88ION MELTING, JIILY 11, 19 9 0 PAGE 6
the City Council. The zoning ordinance does not specify
notifying adjacent property owners, but the license application
is published in the Fridley Focus two times prior to the public
hearing.
Ms. Jean Schwartz, 1372 - 64th Avenue, stated it is her
understanding that anything going into the C-1 zoning district
would be of a smaller scale and have a smaller impact on the
residential neighborhood, while anything going into the C-2
zoning district would be of a larger scale and have a larger
impact. She asked Ms. Dacy to explain why lodges and assemblies
are allowed in the C-2 zoning.
Ms. Dacy stated each zoning district has a list of principal
uses, a list of accessory uses, and special uses. In the C-1
district, the first things listed under special uses are:
�'theaters, lodges, and assembly facilities having a seating
capacity of less than 300 persons, but not including outdoor
theaters." This says that theaters, lodges, and assembly
facilities are o.k. in the C-1 district with a special use
permit. Under the C-2 zoning, the seating capacity can be over
300 persons. There is also another part of the ordinance that
says the City has to analyze the site plan and determine if there
is any adverse impacts from the special use. In other words, the
;� City has the burden of proof as to whether or not the special use
is going to be compatible with the adjacent area.
Ms. Lavonne Kowski, 6391 Central Avenue, asked how many parking
spaces are proposed for the site.
Ms. Dacy stated 72 parking spaces are proposed. The area to the
rear can accommodate up to 37 spaces, for a total of 109.
Ms. Kowski asked where the cars are going to park when the lot is
full. She lives north of the fire station. The cars are not
going to park on Rice Creek Road or Central Avenue, so they are
going to park on 64th Avenue. Her concern is the parking.
Ms. Dacy stated that as far as parking requirements, the
ordinance is set up so that even though the building capacity is
300 people, that does not mean there are going to be 300 cars.
Typical parking requirements for a church is 1 space for 3
people. Typical parking requirements for a theater is 1 space
for 3-4 seats based on the fact that on average 2-3 people travel
in one vehicle to a typical destination. The City of Fridley's
code is based on square footage of 1 space per 100 sq. ft., which
equates to 70 spaces. If they were to use the analogy of 1 space
per 3-4 people, there would still be enough spaces on site to
accommodate that ratio.
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� PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING. JIILY 11. 1990 PAGE 7
Ms. Koski asked if there is an overflow at the Moose Lodge, can
people from the Moose Lodge park on 64th Avenue according to
ordinance?
Ms. Dacy stated cars are not allowed on Central Avenue or Rice
Creek Road. They could park on 64th Avenue unless a"no parking
zone" is established.
Mr. Betzold asked if the Public Safety Director has looked at
whether or not it would be appropriate to put "no parking" signs
along 64th Avenue.
Ms. Dacy stated the Public Safety Director has reviewed the
plans, but he did not make a specific comment about this issue.
Mr. Betzold stated that if this special use permit is approved
and parking ever becomes a problem, the City Council can always
approve a"no parking zone" on 64th Avenue at a later date.
Ms. Sherek stated that if parking ever becomes a problem, there
is always the possibility of cross parking easements with the
commercial property to the south.
Mr. Mark Schwartz, 1372 - 64th Avenue, stated he is not against
,� the Moose organization. He is looking at this as C-1 zoning
which is like a small office building or convenience store,
generally things that close at 9:00-10:00 p.m. This Lodge will
be right across from�residential homes, and it is going to be
open until 12:00-1:00 a.m. Then, on top of this, they are going
to apply for a liquor license. For these reasons, he is against
the project.
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Ms. Sue Rau stated that the Moose Lodge currently has 850
members, and they will be looking for more new members. This
building has a capacity for 700 people according to the fire
code. Who is going to make sure there are no more than 300
people in the building?
Ms. Dacy stated she talked to Bob Aldrich, Fire Chief, about the
fire capacity issue. Based on the Building Code, they took the
square footaqe indicated on the plan for the hall and restaurant
area and came up with a total of 350 people. Apparently there
has been some conflicting information from City staff, and this
needs to be checked out before the City Council discussion.
Ms. Dacy stated that obviously if 750 people did show up at the
Moose Lodge, there would be cars on site and all over the street,
and someone would call the Police Department. If the Moose Lodge
exceeds the fire capacity, the City has the right to close the
operation down. There is also an annual inspection program, and
the City also relies on the neighbors to keep watch and call if
they feel the Moose Lodge is in violation. Also, if the Moose
� PLANNING COI�3I88ION MBETING. JIILY 11. 1990 PAGE 8
Lodge is in noncompliance with the special use permit, the City
Council can call a public hearing and revoke the special use
permit.
Ms. Ida Mae Kassow, 1400 Rice Creek Road, asked that if they do
build the overflow parking at the rear of the building, where
will those cars exit and enter the site?
Ms. Dacy stated that there is one driveway onto Central Avenue.
There will not be any access to Rice Creek Road. The location of
the driveway is approximately 300-350 feet north of the
intersection of Rice Creek Road. Central Avenue is maintained by
Anoka County. Anoka County has reviewed this proposal and had no
adverse comments about it.
Ms. Carol Tovsen, 1356 - 64th Avenue, asked if Fridley has any
ordinance regarding the concentration of bars in a certain area.
Mr. Betzold stated there is no ordinance regarding bars.
Mr. Mark Schwartz, 1372 - 64th Avenue, stated about one-half of
the building is a hall and one-half is bar and kitchen. Also
there is an outdoor patio with a horseshoe pit. Why does the
outdoor portion and bar portion face the residential side rather
� than facing the other side, while the hall is on the back wall?
Mr. Mochinski stated he met with Councilmember Schneider, and
they discussed the pros and cons on the location of the hall.
They both felt the best solution was to keep the hall farther
away from the residential area. The patio is off the bar area,
but it is quite small, only about 8 feet wide, and is not large
enough for a band. There is a fence around it to keep the sound
away, in addition to the other fence.
Mr. Mike Gannucci, 1332 Hillcrest Drive, stated he drives by this
property many times during the week, and it is sadly in need of a
development. He has seen the plans for the building, and it
looks like a very nice building. He thought it would fit in
nicely with the neighborhood and it would give the City some tax
revenue.
Mr. Joe Stzyzewski, 4724 - 2nd Street, stated he is the Acting
Governor of Moose Lodge #38, and the bartender for the last ten
years. He has worked private parties and weddings; and in those
ten years, he has never seen 300 people at any function. They do
not have large crowds. The most people they have ever had at a
function was 200-250. This building and parking lot are more
than adequate. He did not believe there would be any cars
parking on residential streets.
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� PLANNING COMMIBSION MEETING. JIILY 11, 1990 PAG� 9
Ms. Sue Rau, 1341 - 64th Avenue, stated her biggest concern is
the liquor license. It seems that right now their neighborhood
is being bombarded with bars. To the north they have Sandees
Restaurant, to the south is Joe Dimaggio's and Wong's has a beer
license. There are four establishments within 1 1/2 blocks that
serve liquor or beer. There is a lot of noise that is generated
by Joe Dimaggio's, plus cars racing down Central Avenue as they
leave the parking facilities.
Ms. Lavonne Kowski, 6391 Central Avenue, stated the domestics
from Joe Dimaggio's have brought a lot of problems into this
area. It draws a younger, noisier crowd. T�hen they purchased
their home, Sandees was already there; and they have not had any
problems with Sandees. But, all of a sudden they have been
bombarded with bars. If any of the Planning Commission members
lived in this area, they wouldn't be having this meeting.
Ms. Barb Edwards, 1403 - 64th Avenue, stated they moved into
their house about 1 1/2 years ago. Before that, they lived in
Northeast Minneapolis across the street from a fraternal
organization. This organization did not have a bar that operated
regularly, but it conducted celebrations; and they experienced
overflow parking in front of their house, litter, liquor and beer
cans in the front yards, screaming and yelling, swearing,
�, domestic fights, etc. This probably was not the members of this
organization, but it could be rented by one member and the rest
were guests of that member who do not have to conform to the
rules of the organization.
Mr. Mark Schwartz, 1372 - 64th Avenue, stated he thought the
members of the Moose Lodge are sincere. The problem comes when
there are 250 people at a function, such as a wedding, who are
out to have a good time. On one hand, he is favor of this type
of use for this property; but, on the other hand, he is against
late night hours and serving liquor. Any time liquor is served,
there is the potential for a lot of problems.
Mr. Betzold stated the Planning Commission could recommend to the
City Council that if a liquor license is requested, a public
hearing be held and the neighbors notified.
Mr. Joe Nelson, 1357 - 64th Avenue, stated that in this area
there is liquor or beer at Sandee's Restaurant, Wong's
Restaurant, Joe Dimaggio's, Shorewood, and the municipal liquor
store, and the Knights of Columbus. There is also pull tabs,
gambling, bingo. A bar is a bar, whether it is in the Moose
Lodge or in another establishment. They moved into this area
because it is a residential area. His house is about 75 yards
from the horseshoe pit, and he doesn't want the noise or the
� cars.
� PLANNING COMMISBION MEETING JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 10
Mr. Herb Lennox, 1461 Rice Creek Road, stated he built his house
in 1961. At that time, there was only the Shorewood Inn and
Sandees. Since then, a liquor license has been issued to Maple
Lanes, Joe Dimaggios, and there is Fridley's municipal liquor
store. He did not think he could support the addition of another
establishment serving liquor just down the street from his home.
He would like to see this property developed, but he would like
to see it developed in other ways. Alcohol is a very big
problem.
Ms. Jean Schwart, 1372 - 64th Avenue, stated another problem is
that the Moose Lodge is busiest during off peak hours when the
residents are home.
Ms. Linda Nelson, 1357 - 64th Avenue, stated that when the
proposal was before the City for to�nmhouses on this property, all
the neighbors agreed that they were not against the townhouses
but against the density in this small area. If the project could
have been scaled down, it might have been workable in this area.
This block is a younger neighborhood, and there are a lot of
small children.
Mr. Mochinski stated he has owned this property for 15 years, and
there are not a lot of uses for this property. One is for
�, office, but there is no market for office space. The retail/
walk-in type uses are not conducive for this site, because the
traffic counts are not high enough. He would prefer not to have
to go through the special use permit process, but the allowed
uses for this property are just not there. He has to take
proposals as they come and present them to the Planning
Commission and City Council.
Ms. Jean Schwartz, 1372 - 64th Avenue, stated they moved into
their home four years ago to raise a family in a nice
neighborhood. They had checked into the zoning, and there was no
liquor allowed on C-1 property. If they had known it would be
allowed through a special use permit, they would not have
purchased in this area. If the City does not put some kind of
cap on the establishments selling liquor in this area, people
will start leaving.
Ms. Sue Rau, 1341 - 64th Avenue, stated she has talked to a
realtor to find out what this type of establishment would do to
their property values. It was the realtor's opinion that it
definitely does not add to their property value, and it would be
more difficult to sell their home because potential buyers want
to buy in a residential area and look at the facilities around
the residential area. From her living room, she will see a
parking lot and a bar. The primary problem is the liquor and the
number of cars. Maybe a restriction on residential parking could
� be part of the solution, so the residents could be assured that
people from the Moose Lodge will not be parking on their street.
r PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETINa, JIILY 11. 1990 PAGE 11
Mr. Betzold stated that if this special use permit is approved by
the City Council, there is nothing to prevent the Council from
imposing those kind of traffic bans at some future time. Parking
is a very important issue.
Ms. Lavonne Kowski, 6391 Central Avenue, stated she has seen some
traffic counters on Central Avenue. Is the City taking traffic
counts in this area. If not, the City should be taking some
traffic counts. There is a lot of traffic in this area, and the
Moose Lodge will just bring in more cars.
Ms. Dacy stated Anoka County is probably doing the traffic
counts. Anoka County takes traffic counts on an annual basis and
gives the City the annual daily traffic count. The Anoka County
Engineer has advised City staff is that in the future, they feel
the only improvement the intend to make on Central Avenue may be
a median from Rice Creek Road north 300-350 feet, so the access
into the Moose Lodge property may be only a right-in, right-out
at some future time. The median would restrict the traffic
conflict. However, Anoka County has not indicated any type of
timeframe for the median.
Mr. Stan Wrona, 2911 Lincoln Street N.E., stated the neighbors
��, seem to be very concerned about liquor and debris. He stated
that the neighbors can check with the Minneapolis Police
Department that in 30 years at their Minneapolis location in a
residential location, there were only two occasions where the
Moose Lodge needed to call the police. He stated they are not a
wild organization. They are strictly a fraternal organization.
They are very quiet, and they take care of their own people.
Ms. Jackie Calderon, 6401 Central Avenue, stated representatives
from the Moose Lodge state that they have had no problems at
their Minneapolis location, yet they are looking for new members.
With new members, the Lodge is going to change, and there might
be new problems they have never dealt with before.
Mr. Joe Stzyzewski, 4724 - 2nd Street, stated that if a Moose
member becomes drunk, obnoxious, or profane, that person's card
is pulled for 60 or 90 days. That person is not allowed to come
to the club during that period. The Moose Lodge is very serious
about this. If that person continues to be drunk and obnoxious,
then that person is no longer a member. That is why they do not
have problems.
Ms. Linda Nelson, 1357 - 64th Avenue, asked if the Moose Lodge
members had any control over non-members who are guests who
become disruptive.
�� Mr. Stzyzewski stated, yes, they do. The member who brings a
guest is responsible for that guest. If there is anyone who is
� PLANNING COI�lI88ION MEETING. JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 12
disruptive, he/she is asked to leave. If the person does not
leave, then the bar is closed. There are special contracts that
have to be signed when any wedding parties rent the hall, and
those contracts must be abided by. On occasion, they have gotten
hired security to avoid any problems.
Michele Blomberg, 1385 - 64th Avenue, they moved into the
neighborhood about 1 1/2 years ago. They bought a starter home,
but they do not want to add onto their home or start a family
with all the bars in this area. A bar is a bar. The Moose Lodge
is going to depreciate their homes, and she is totally against
this proposal.
Mr. Saba stated that if the Planning Commission recommended that
the Moose Lodge be restricted to beer only, will this cause a
problem for the Moose Lodge?
Mr. Cason stated if they were restricted to beer only, they would
not be interested in building here.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Saba, to close the public
hearing.
IIPON A oOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CBAIRPERBON BETZOLD DECLARED
�"'�, THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he understands and appreciates the neighbors�
concerns. A lot of valid issues have been raised; however, he
did not see how any additional stipulations can be added without
adversely affecting the petitioner's proposal. He thought those
principal permitted uses in the C-1 district suggest that any
number of uses could be put on this site that would cause
potentially more problems to the neighbors than the Moose Lodge
might.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that from the standpoint of the numbers that
were raised about the building occupancy (750 and 300 occupants),
if the Building Code is the document used to determine occupancy,
the maximum number of occupants for this facility would be around
300. That would suggest that if 750 were the number, that
building would be about 12,000 sq. ft. for the bar and hall area
and additional square feet for other functions within the
building. He was sure the 750 number is inaccurate and should be
verified before the Council meeting.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he would not recommend any additional
stipulations, however, if parking restrictions on 64th Avenue
would help, he would strongly encourage that. The Commission
might want to encourage the petitioner to check out any
� possibilities of shared parking with the two parcels on the west
side of Central Avenue, east of the proposed site. He did not
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PLANNINa COMMI88ION MEETING, JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 13
believe people from the Moose Lodge are going to park on 64th
Avenue, because it is further to walk.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he thought the Moose Lodge is a good use for
the site, and he would recommend approval of the special use
permit.
Mr. Saba asked staff if there had been any discussion about
limiting the hours of operation. Is it possible for the Planning
Commission to recommend that liquor cannot be served after a
specific time, such as 11:30-12:00?
Ms. Dacy stated the Commission can always make that
recommendation to the Council. She stated she would have the
City Attorney evaluate what the best mechanism is to impose that
type of restriction. If the hours of operation is on the use of
the liquor, then the question to the City Attorney is: Is a
special use permit the appropriate vehicle to do it, or is with
the liquor license itself?
Mr. Saba stated he would recommend this be looked at. The
concern of the people in the audience and people in general is,
what happens when these facilities close and people with a little
too much to drink are out on the road. There are several
facilities in this area that are contributing to the noise and
other problems. He stated he liked the plan. He did not have
anything against the Moose Lodge, but the only way he could
support this special use permit would be if the Commission
recommends to the City Attorney the limiting of hours of liquor
service in the facility.
Mr. Betzold asked if the City has any similar restriction on
other establishments selling liquor in the City of Fridley?
Ms. Dacy stated she did not know, but staff could research that.
Mr. Betzold stated he thought it would be very difficult to put
this kind of restriction on the Moose Lodge and not on any
facility selling liquor. If the Commission decides this is the
standard, they would almost have to make it uniform for every
facility that has a liquor license.
Mr. Saba stated his major concern is that these facilities
basically depend on serving liquor to exist, and the Commission
members all know the problems liquor is causing in their
neighborhoods.
Mr. Kondrick stated he is in favor of the special use permit. It
is a good use for this site. He stated his father was a
^ policeman for 25 years on the north side, and there were never
any problems with the Moose Lodge in Minneapolis. The Moose
� PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING, JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 14
Lodge has been displaced by the City of Minneapolis because of
renovation.
Ms. Sherek stated she came to the meeting not knowing how she
would vote. She has had a lot of reservations about how this
site should be developed because it is so close to a residential
neighborhood. She also realized that Mr. Mochinski has made a
real effort over the years to come to the City with a project
that would be decent for the neighborhood and, at the same time,
be developable on that site. There is no market for the office
space nor enough traffic. Soil correction costs makes housing an
impossibility.
Ms. Sherek stated she appreciated the neighbors' concerns. She
stated her parents and uncles have been Moose Lodge members for
many years. She had to agree with the Acting Governor that of
all the places where she has attended weddings, the Moose Lodge
is one of the most orderly places. As Mr. Stzyzewski stated, she
has literally seen them close the bar. She could appreciate what
the neighbors have said about the fact that Joe Dimaggio's has
created some problems for this area, but it is wrong to tar the
Moose Lodge with the same brush as a sports bar. Therefore, she
was in favor of the special use permit.
� Ms. Modig stated that she thought Mr. Mochinski has done a good
job in trying to accommodate the neighborhood's concerns. She
thought this is a good plan for the site. Maybe the Planning
Commission should consider a stipulation about no parking on 64th
Avenue. Most of the establishments in the area that serve liquor
(Sandee's, Shorewood Inn, Knights of Columbus) have been in the
area for many years. She stated she is in favor of this proposal
and would recommend approval.
Mr. Kuechle stated he shared the concerns of the neighbors about
liquor, however, he did not believe they could put the Moose
Lodge in the same category as a sports bar such as Joe
Dimaggio's, because it is a quasi-private club. Because of the
other uses that could go into a C-1 district, he thought this is
a good plan and he would vote in favor of it.
Mr. Betzold stated this is a permitted use with a special use
permit, so the Planning Commission has to come up with cogent
reasons in order to recommend denial of the special use permit.
Overall, he did agree that the Moose Lodge is going to be a
better neighbor than some other organizations. This is a
somewhat a private club and is not open to the general public.
It sounds like it is somewhat self-policing. It is an older,
more mature segment of the population, not a motorcycle gang. It
is a reasonable use for the property.
�' Mr. Betzold stated he also shared the neighbor's concerns. The
use of liquor is not just confined to this particular
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 15
/�
neighborhood, and if the City is going to clamp down on the
establishments that serve liquor, they have to look at all the
establishments in the City, not just the Moose Lodge. They
cannot single out this particular facility.
Mr. Betzold stated that the off-street parking is a concern, and
this can be addressed now or later. It is his opinion to let it
go now, see how it works, and if there are parking problems, then
they can do something about it. Also, as Mr. Mochinski has
stated, other proposals for this site are just not going to
happen.
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Ms. Modig, to recommend to City
Council approval of special use permit, SP #90-10, by Richard
Mochinski, per Section 205.13.01.C.(1) of the Fridley City Code
to allow theaters, lodges, and assembly facilities on Lots 17 and
18, Block 2, Spring Valley, generally located at Rice Creek Road
and Central Avenue N.E., with the following stipulations:
1. Lot 17 and 18 shall be combined into one tax parcel.
2. A drainage and utility easement shall be reserved over
the east 30 feet of the parcel and shall be submitted
prior to the issuance of a building pernait.
3. A street easement shall be reserved over the east 30
feet of the parcel and shall be submitted prior to the
issuance of a building permit.
4. A special use permit shall be approved prior to any
building expansion.
5. Maximum seating capacity shall be limited to 300
persons, or the regulations provided by the Fire Code,
whichever is most restrictive.
6. The parking situation be reviewed in two years.
Ms. Sherek stated the reason for the sixth stipulation is that in
two years if there is a parking problem, the City could set
parking restrictions on 64th Avenue and explore the possibility
of cross parking easements.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERBON HETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
Ms. Dacy stated this item will go to Council on July 23.
MOTION by Mr. Saba, seconded by Ms. Sherek, that in response to
^ the concern about the hours during which liquor is served, the
City Attorney and City Council look at the possibility of more
restrictive hours of liquor service; for example, 11:30-12:00
,,,� PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETINa, JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 16
p.m., and to find out the number of establishments serving liquor
in the City of Fridley.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, DAHLBERG VOTING NAY, CHAIRPERBON BETZOLD
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that he thought it is a waste of the City
Attorney's time and City's money to go through any kind of
significant analysis, discussion, and review of this motion. His
reason was primarily because it is a society issue and he did not
know where it starts. He is not optimistic that they can effect
any positive change relative to this whole issue at this point.
Mr. Kondrick stated Mr. Dahlberg is right; however, someone has
to say something at some time, and maybe someday society will
change.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that, in his opinion, society is changing for
the better, that social drinking in this day and age is
significantly different than it was even ten years ago, and that
people drink less. The problems that were discussed relative to
Joe Dimaggio's are because of the age category that sports bar
attracts.
/�'� Mr. Betzold stated this issue will be discussed again at the City
Council public hearing, so the City Council and the City Attorney
will have to be prepared for that discussion.
2. CONSIDERATION OF APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION TO DETERMINE
CONSISTENCY OF THE REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT WITH THE
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN•
Ms. Dacy stated the resolution will approve the proposed
amendments to the city's Redevelopment Plan and the proposed Tax
Increment Financing Plan for Tax Increment District No. 11 for
the Fridley Town Square Shopping Center. The expansion includes
the two single family homes which are under option by the
developer at this point and will be removed so this area can be
redeveloped for the 28,000 sq. ft. shopping center.
Ms. Dacy stated staff and the HRA have developed a tentative
agreement with the development that this will be a pay-as-you-go
project and that the amount of assistance, $400,000, will be
basically retired from the taxes generated from the project
within six years.
Ms. Dacy stated staff recommends that the Planning Commission
agree that the proposed expansion of the redevelopment area and
the creation of the district is consistent with the City's
� Comprehensive Plan. Although the plan does not refer
specifically to this site, they do adopt by reference the HRA
goals and objectives for each of the redevelopment areas, and the
� �S
PLANNING CONIIRI68ION MEETING, JIILY 11, 1990 PAGE 17
HRA has determined that this project is consistent with the goals
of that district. Staff recommends the Planning Commission
approve the resolution.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if staff had considered expanding the
redevelopment area even further to the east to 5th Street to care
into account the potential for any further development in that
area.
Mr. Robertson stated, yes, that can be done. The problem is that
the way the State Legislature has now written the State Law, if
they were to create the district and nothing were to happen
within three years, they have to be certified again. So, timing-
wise, it is better to wait until they get a project.
Mr. Dahlberg stated that as long as there is that possibility in
the future to modify the district without any problems, then that
answers his questions.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to approve of
"Resolution of the Fridley Planning Commission Concerning the
Fridley Housing and Redevelopment Authority's Redevelopment
Project and Tax Increment Financing Proposals".
� IIPON A VOICE VOTE, BIIE SHERER VOTING NAY, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD
DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED.
3. RECEIVE JUNE 19. 1990. APPEALS COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Ruechle, seconded by Mr. Kondrick, to receive the
June 19, 1990, Appeals Commission minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON RONDRICR DECI,ARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
i�`���ili�;i`I'vl��iliA
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Saba, to adjourn the
meeting. IIpon a voice vote, Chairperson Hetzold declared the
July 11, i99o, Planning Commission meetinq adjourned at 10:10
p.m.
Respectfully s mitted,
Ly e Saba
Recording Secretary
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