PL 08/08/1990 - 30723�
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMIBBION MLETING, AIIGIIBT 8, 1990
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CALL TO ORDER•
Chairperson Betzold called the August 8, 1990, Planning Commission
meeting to order at 7:33 p.m.
ROLL CALL•
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Others Present:
Don Betzold, Dean Saba, Sue Sherek,
Paul Dahlberg
Dave Kondrick, Diane Savage, Connie Modig
Barbara Dacy, Planning Coordinator
Jock Robertson, Community Development Director
Garland and Jane Lagesse, 7951 Broad Avenue
APPROVAL OF JULY 25 1990. PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES•
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Saba, to approve the July
25, 1990, Planning Commission minutes as written.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOII3LY.
1. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SP
#90-13. BY GARLAND LAGESSE:
Per Section 205.24.04.D of the Fridley City Code to allow a
structure to be constructed in a CRP-2 (Flood Fringe)
District, on Lots 9-12, 16-24, Block M, Riverview Heights,
generally located at 7951 Broad Avenue N.E.
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Saba, to waive the reading
of the public hearing notice and open the public hearing.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERBON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOII3LY.
Ms. Dacy stated the parcel is located east of and adjacent to Broad
Avenue. The parcel is approximately one acre in size and is
located just at the edge of the flood fringe district as identified
in the Flood Insurance Rate maps. The petitioner, Mr. Lagesse, is
proposing to demolish the existing attached 18 ft. by 11 ft. three-
season porch and reconstruct a 12 ft. by 25 ft. three-season porch.
Ms. Dacy stated the major factor with this application is, because
of its location in the Flood Fringe District, what the Flood
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PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING. AUGIIST 8, 1990 PAGE 2
Insurance Rate maps call the "finished floor elevation". The
finished floor elevation must be at a level which is considered
flood-proofed in the eyes of the City's ordinance.
Ms. Dacy stated that during the application period, there was some
misunderstanding between staff and the petitioner. Mr. Lagesse was
under the impression that he only had to have an elevation of 823
feet; and, as listed in the staff report, staff is stipulating 824
feet. During the last week, staff has been working with the
petitioner and looking at the flood information to determine the
exact flood elevation that actually occurred in this part of the
flood plain district.
Ms. Dacy stated that in the report staff found in the files dated
November 1971 prepared by the Army Corps of Engineers, it analyzes
the entire flood area of the Mississippi River and then provides
a 100 year flood elevation profile along the entire length of the
river. Staff determined that the flood elevation in the
approximate location of the petitioner's property between Buffalo
and Cheryl Streets occurred at the elevation of 822.5 feet. The
City's ordinance and the DNR require that the finished floor
elevation of a habitable living space be flood-proofed to one foot
above the flood elevation. That makes an elevation of 823.5. Mr.
Lagesse has indicated to staff that he can construct the addition
at the 823.5 foot elevation, but would not be able to do it at the
824 foot elevation. The additional 6 inches affects the floor to
ceiling height which would affect the pitch of the roof such that
it would impinge on the windows on the upper floor of his home.
Ms. Dacy stated that in the staff report, staff recommended the
Planning Commission recommend approval of the special use permit
with the following stipulations:
1.
2.
3.
The first floor elevation of the addition shall be 824
feet above sea level.
The addition shall be flood-proofed in accordance with
the building code requirements.
The petitioner shall provide hard surface driveway by
September 30, 1991.
Ms. Dacy stated that now, instead of the proposed stipulation #1,
staff is recommending that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of the special use permit subject to the first floor
elevation of the addition being at 823.5 feet, subject to the
approval of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR); and, if
necessary, the Federal Emergency Management Association (FEMA).
Ms. Dacy stated that as the Commission is aware, the City takes a
�"� certain risk in approving construction and habitable living area
- within flood plain areas. She had contacted a DNR staff person
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PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING. AIIGIIST 8. 1990 PAG� 3
regarding this issue who advised her that in the case of a federal
and state audit, if it can be determined that the City issued a
permit in direct conflict with the codes of the City, the City is
at risk for penalty and, in the case of a flood, lawsuits for
damages. With that in mind, between the Planning Commission
meeting and the City Council meeting on August 27, staff is going
to write a letter to the DNR requesting that the DNR analyze the
above information and make a recommendation as to whether or not
they agree with staff's recommendation at the 823.5 foot elevation.
If so, then the City Council can proceed and approve the special
use permit.
Ms. Dacy stated another issue with this application is that last
week staff informed the petitioner about stipulation #3, requiring
a hard surface driveway. As the Commission is aware, providing a
hard surface driveway is a typical stipulation that the City places
on variance requests, special use permit requests, and other
building permits in order to bring various parts of property up to
City Code. The petitioner is strongly opposed to the hard surface
driveway stipulation.
Mr. Dahlberg asked if staff has the specific elevation of the
existing home.
^ Ms. Dacy stated that at the request of the petitioner, the
Engineering Department staff shot the elevation of the existing
porch at 821.94 feet. If a flood occurred at 822.5 feet, it is
just barely into the flood plain.
Mr. Garland Lagesse stated he would like to explain to the
Commission why the existing porch is being taken down. He stated
this project started out as a simple project to upgrade the
existing porch. In getting some estimate costs, it was pointed
out to them by a contractor that the existing porch is not on
footings. It is merely on a slab. It was also pointed out that
part of the wall is starting to pull away. Upon further
investigation, it was discovered that the concrete slab has either
broken loose or is cracked.
Mr. Lagesse stated he talked to Darrel Clark, the Building
Inspector, to see if the porch could be jacked up and footings be
put underneath. He was told he was restricted on what he could do
because the property is in the flood plain. He was told it might
be possible to mudjack under the concrete to try and pick it up and
push more concrete under it to level the floor out. If it would
work, it is only a temporary solution.
Mr. Lagesse stated the only alternative he has bee
is feasible is to take the existing porch down
scratch. And, because he is in the flood plain,
� the elevation of the floor up. This project
quickly from approximately $2,000 to $15,000.
n told about that
and start from
he has to bring
escalated quite
PLANNING COMMISBION MEETING, AIIGIIST 8, 1990 PAGB 4
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Mr. Lagesse stated he can always leave the porch as it is and let
it fall down, but they would like to utilize the space for their
family.
Mr. Lagesse stated that on the roof, he needs at least 4 inches
between the roof and the house windows. If the roof is any higher,
there will be a water problem on the windows. He cannot go with
a gable roof, because of the elevation restriction, so he has to
go with a flat roof. Inside, he has to come out with a landing to
step up into the porch from the house. Because they will lose some
usable living space because of the landing, they decided to extend
the width of the house. He stated he has modified the plan to go
to 823.5 feet, but not to 824 feet. If he went with the 824 foot
elevation, he would have a room standing about 40 inches above the
ground. He would also lose some of the solar benefit and a view
out to Spring Brook Creek.
Mr. Lagesse stated he has talked to a realtor to see if the
construction of a new porch is feasible in terms of economics.
The realtor said it would be kind of stretching it, but they have
to think in terms of what the family wants. The realtor said the
added value to the home was possible $7,000, so the cost of
constructing the porch is double what the added value will be.
^ Mr. Lagesse stated John Flora, Public Works Director, has been
talking to the Federal Government about the whole flood plain
issue. The essence of it is that for the last 25 years the
citizens of Fridley have been paying for flood insurance apparently
for no reason. The reason behind that is the cause of the 1965
flood was from man-made causes. There was an obstruction at the
St. Anthony bridge; and at the same time, I-694 was being
constructed and the width of the river was down to a 10 foot width.
The combination of the two things caused the flooding. This is
documented in Army Corps of Engineers records.
Ms. Dacy stated, that in spite of what happened in 1965, since then
there have been adjustments at the Coon Rapids Dam and other
adjustments which has caused the City of Fridley to ask the Army
Corps of Engineers and the DNR to take a look at the elevation of
the flood plain since 1983. The Army Corps has done some studies
on the control mechanisms that were installed along the river to
determine if they are going to be accurate. It is her
understanding that the DNR is reluctant initially to look at
pulling back the existing elevations, and it could take months or
years before this is resolved. Underlying Mr. Lagesse�s argument
is the fact that he is at the fringe of the district and, in his
mind, there is a real question as to whether or not a flood of this
nature could occur again to the intensity that was recorded.
Unfortunately, until the numbers are changed, the City has to live
�"1 with what the FEMA maps say.
PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING, AIIGIIST 8. 1990 PAGE 5
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Ms. Dacy stated Mr. Lagesse's next door neighbor, Mr. James Bowe,
built a new home at 7919 Broad Avenue (SP #89-02), and the finished
floor elevation was required at 824 feet.
Mr. Betzold stated he believed the Planning Commission put on a
stipulation requiring Mr. Bowe to sign a hold harmless agreement.
Maybe the Planning Commission could put on a similar stipulation
in this case if they are getting stuck over this 1/2 foot
requirement with the DNR and FEMA.
Ms. Dacy stated that was a stipulation as part of the Planning
Commission and City Council approval, and the document was recorded
and is in the file.
Mr. Lagesse stated he was at the meeting when Mr. Bowe applied for
his special use permit. The stipulation read: "Prior to the
issuance of a building permit, the property owner shall sign a
covenant to be recorded at the County releasing the City from any
liability for the issuance of this special use permit." If the
Planning Commission wanted to make a similar stipulation at the
823.5 foot elevation, he could live with that.
Ms. Dacy stated the agreement Mr. Bowe signed did not specify an
elevation. It was just a statement.
�' Mr. Dahlberg stated that since the main level of the house is at
about 822.4 feet, the house is already subjected to a lower
elevation and the petitioner is taking a risk just by living in
the flood fringe. He believed it would make sense to go through
the same process in terms of a hold harmless agreement of some sort
but to construct the porch at the same elevation as the house but
no lower.
Ms. Sherek agreed. She stated it does not make sense to build a
porch above the level of the house.
Ms. Dacy stated she also agreed. She just had the concern that if
an audit occurred, she would prefer to have this issue resolved now
and have the DNR sign off on it.
Ms. Sherek stated then they should ask the DNR to sign off on it
with the porch at the level of the existing house.
Ms. Dacy stated she can certainly ask this question of the DNR.
Mr. Lagesse asked staff to be sure and tell the DNR that the
existing porch is now lower than the existing level of the house,
and that the reason it will be torn down and replaced is because
of structural damage.
^ Ms. Dacy stated she will draft a letter to the DNR and have Mr.
Lagesse review it to make sure the facts are accurate.
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PLANNING COMMI_88ION MEETING, AIIGIIST 8, 1990 PAGE 6
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Mr. Robertson stated that the flood-proofing measure required by
the building code is raising a structure to an elevation one foot
above the flood. Now they are looking at a situation where that
may not occur. A question Mr. Lagesse might want to find out:
Would the newly constructed porch addition and the house be
eligible for flood insurance?
Mr. Lagesse stated that if he is allowed to stay at the existing
floor elevation of the house, it broadens his options and it might
make sense to see what the cost is to jack up the existing porch
and put footings underneath it.
Mr. Betzold asked Mr. Lagesse to state his objection to the hard
surface driveway stipulation (#3).
Mr. Lagesse stated that his reason for objecting to the hard
surface driveway is that when he made the application in July, he
was not told about the requirement of the hard surface driveway.
It wasn't until about one week ago that staff called him and told
him they had forgot to tell him about the hard surface driveway
requirement. Throwing this requirement on top of everything else
presents more of an economic hardship than he is willing to bear.
^ Mr. Lagesse stated that when he moved into the house, there was no
hard surface driveway. It has been his understanding that the City
cannot legally require anyone to put in a hard surface driveway,
but can only encourage it. He has made improvements to the
driveway. He has put in a concrete surface between the garage and
the house and about 40 feet from the garage. He has put class 2
material on the driveway to hold the driveway together and to make
it harder. He stated that the cost of a hard surface driveway is
over $2,000, and the hard surface driveway requirement is a
definite economic hardship. The driveway is 150 feet long.
Mr. Betzold stated Mr. Lagesse is correct in saying that the City
cannot legally require the hard surface driveway, but this
stipulation has been pretty routine for anyone making a request to
the City in order to bring the property up to code. He stated any
new construction, of course, must meet code.
MOTION by Mr. Saba, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to close the public
hearing.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED AND THE PIIBLIC HEARING CL03ED AT 8:35 P.M.
Mr. Saba stated he has real concerns about forcing the hard surface
driveway for 150 feet of driveway because of the cost involved.
He would be willing to make an exception in this case.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING� AIIGIIBT 8. 1990 PAGE 7
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Mr. Betzold stated he agreed. If the petitioner was remodeling,
he might insist on the hard surface driveway, but in this case,
the petitioner is not remodeling, he is just trying to repair or
replace part of the house that is falling down.
Mr. Dahlberg stated he also agreed. However, if it turns out that
the existing porch can be reconstructed for significantly less than
new construction, he would encourage the petitioner to reconsider
the hard surface driveway.
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Saba, to recommend to City
Council approval of special use permit request, SP #90-13, per
Section 205.24.04.D of the Fridley City Code to allow a structure
to be constructed in a CRP-2 (Flood Fringe) District, on Lots 9-
12, 16-24, Block M, Riverview Heights, generally located at 7951
Broad Avenue N.E., with the following stipulations:
1. The elevation of the porch addition to be at the
elevation of the existing living space, contingent upon
approval by the Department of Natural Resources and
Federal Emergency Management Association.
2. The property owner shall execute a hold harmless
agreement to be recorded with the title of the property.
� IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERBON BETZOLD DECLARE THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
Ms. Dacy stated this item will go to City Council on August 27,
1990.
2. RECEIVE JUNE 4 1990 PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES•
MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Saba, to receive the June 4,
1990, Parks and Recreation Commission minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERBON BETZOLD DECLARE THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
3. RECEIVE JULY 17, 1990 ENVIRONMENTAL OUALITY AND EATERGY
COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Mr. Saba, to receive the July
17, 1990, Environmental Quality and Energy Commission minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARE THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
4. RECEIVE JULY 19 1990 HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
MINUTES•
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PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING� AIIGIIST 8, 1990 PAG� 8
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MOTION by Ms. Sherek, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to receive the July
19, 1990, Housing and Redevelopment Authority minutes.
QPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARE THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
5. RECEIVE JULY 24, 1990. APPEALS COMMISSION MINUTES•
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to receive the July
24, 1990, Appeals Commission minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTIN(3 AYE, CHAIRPER80N BETZOLD DECLARE THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to adjourn the
meeting. IIpon a voice vote, all votinq ape, chairperson Betzold
declared the motion carried and the Auqust 8, 1990, Planninq
Commission meetinq adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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Lyn Saba
Reco ding Secretary
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