PL 09/21/1994 - 30796�
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMIBSION MEETING, SEPTEMBER 21, 1994
CALL TO ORDER•
Chairperson Newman called the September 21, 1994, Planning
Commission meeting to order at 7:32 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Dave Newman, Dave Kondrick,
Diane Savage, Dean Saba
Brad Sielaff, Connie Modig
LeRoy Oquist,
Others Present: Barb Dacy, Community Development Director
Scott Hickok, Planning Coordinator
Michelle McPherson, Planning Assistant
Michelle and Monte Maher, 7965 Riverview
Terrace N.E.
John Rice, Jr., 8041 Riverview Terrace
Chris Hamlin, Asst. Manager, Wal-Mart, 8450
University Avenue
John Tiller, 1538 Gardena Avenue N.E.
Bailey Tiller, 1535 Gardena Avenue N.E.
Jerome Tiller, 1555 Gardena Avenue N.E.
Dave Tiller
Kathy O'Connell, Combs, Frank, Roos &
Associates
Paul Carlson, Close & Associates
APPROVAL OF SEPTEMBER 7, 1994. PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Saba, to approve the
September 7, 1994, Planning Commission minutes as written.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE� ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
� 1. (Tables 9/7/94) PUBLIC HEARING• CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL
USE PERMIT. SP #94-12, BY MONTE AND MICHELLE MAHER:
Per Section 205.24.04.D of the Fridley City Code, to allow
construction in the flood fringe district on Lots 16 - 21 with
exceptions, Block W, Riverview Heights, generally located at
7965 Riverview Terrace N.E.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Oquist, to waive the
reading of the public hearing notice and to open the public
f,� hearing.
T"1 PLANNING COMMISBION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 2
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLAR�D THE
MOTION CARRIED AND THE PIIBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 7:34 P.M.
;
Ms. McPherson stated the property is located at the intersection
of Cheryl Street and Riverview Terrace. The property is zoned R-
1, Single Family Dwelling, as are all of the surrounding parcels.
The purpose of the special use permit is to allow construction of
an addition to a dwelling located in the flood fringe district.
The petitioner is proposing to construct a 26 foot x 40 foot
addition to the rear of the existing dwelling. The petitioner also
requested a reduction in the rear yard setback from 40 feet to 30
feet based on the depth of the property. The Appeals Commission
reviewed the variance request at their August 23, 1994, meeting and
approved the reguest.
Ms. McPherson stated the proposed addition will contain three
bedrooms and a bath, and is proposed to be one story in height.
The existing dwelling is 1-1/2 stories. The flood fringe district
requires the first floor elevation of all habitable living spaces
be a minimum of one foot above the 100-year flood elevation which
is 823.0 feet above sea level. An elevation certificate will be
required by the petitioner prior to the foundation being capped.
Basements are not permitted in this district; however, a crawl
space under the addition would be permitted. Staff reviewed the
�1 elevation certificate for 7995 Riverview Terrace, which is the
property directly north of the subject parcel and which included
the first floor elevation of existing dwelling of the petitioner.
The petitioners' dwelling is currently 821.8 feet above sea level;
therefore, the addition would need to step up 2.2 feet. The
elevation certification is to verify the minimum first floor
elevation.
Ms. McPherson stated the flood fringe district regulations also
require that any fill needed to elevate this addition extend a
minimum of 15 feet from the proposed addition. This will change
the existing grading and drainage patterns on the property. The
petitioner will be required to submit a grading plan and a erosion
control plan prior to the issuance of the building permit.
Riverview Terrace is proposed to be upgraded in the future and is
also used for flood control measures. The Engineering Department
has requested a 15-foot flood control and street easement along the
east side of Riverview Terrace adjacent to the existing westerly
property line.
Ms. McPherson stated staff's recommends approval of the request to
the City Council with the following stipulations:
1. The petitioner shall submit an elevation certificate prior to
the foundation being capped, which shall verify that the
�� minimum first floor elevation is 824.0 feet.
�'"� PLANNING COMMISSION NlEETING� SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 3
2. The petitioner shall submit a grading and drainage plan prior
to the issuance of a building permit. �
3. The petitioner shall dedicate a 15-foot flood control and
street easement along the Riverview Terrace property line.
Mr. Oquist stated, in looking at the footprint, there is 27 feet
from Riverview Terrace to the addition. Is the City taking 15 feet
of that distance?
Ms. McPherson stated this will be an easement as opposed to
dedicated right-of-way. It allows the City use, but it does not
take it in fee simple.
Mr. Oquist stated, at some point, the City can use it and that
makes the distance 12 feet.
Ms. McPherson stated this was correct. Because the front yard is
actually Cheryl Street, this is the side corner which can be as
short as 17.5 feet so it does not necessarily put the property into
nonconformity.
Mr. Maher stated he questioned the height of the property above sea
level. He shot a line from the fire plug which indicated his
'�� property was at the proper level. He is 4 inches above the level
of the fire plug.
Ms. McPherson stated, according to the elevation certificate
submitted by the neighbor for his property, the existing dwelling
for the petitioner is at 821.8 feet above sea level which is 2.2
feet lower than the 100-year requirement. The petitioner can have
a surveyor come out and check the height. This is not a concern
for the existing dwelling but rather concern about the addition.
Mr. Kondrick asked if there were any objections from the neighbors.
Mr. Maher stated there were none of which he was aware. The
neighbors know about their plans. The neighbor next door was at
the meeting, but he was not aware they had done the survey.
Ms. Savage asked if there were any problems with the stipulations.
Mr. Maher stated they had no objections except showing the
elevation. They had planned for the City to come by and inspect.
They did not want to spend the additional dollars for a surveyor,
but they will do it i� it is required.
Mr. Kondrick asked if staff had received any phone calls.
,� Ms. McPherson stated the City had received no calls.
f'�, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 4
Ms . Maher stated she thought the neighbors who were at the last
meeting attended out of curiosity because they are interested in
the process. That was their only know�.edge of the people attending
the meeting.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Saba, to close the public
hearing.
IIPON lsi VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEAMAN DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED AND THE PIIBLIC HEARIN(i CLOSED AT 7t45 P.M.
Mr. Saba stated he had no problems with the request.
Mr. Kondrick agreed. The only area of concern is to learn for sure
the correct elevation and to clarify the language as to how this
will be done.
Mr. Oquist stated, from the information we have at hand, he thought
the stipulation would stand.
Mr. Newman stated the�certificate is required by ordinance.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Savage, to recommend
approval of Special Use Permit, SP #94-12, by Monte and Michelle
�"'� Maher, to allow construction in the�flood fringe district on Lots
- 16 - 21 with exceptions, Block W, Riverview Heights, generally
located at 7965 Riverview Terrace N.E., with the following
stipulations:
1. The petitioner shall submit an elevation certificate prior to
the foundation being capped, which shall verify that the
minimum first floor elevation is 824.0 feet.
2. The petitioner shall submit a grading and drainage plan prior
to the issuance of a building permit.
3. The petitioner shall dedicate a 15-foot flood control and
street easement along the Riverview Terrace property line.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOIISLY.
Ms. McPherson stated this item would be reviewed by the City
Council on October 3rd.
2. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SP
#94-13, BY JOHN RICE JR :
Per Section 205.07.01.C.(1) of the Fridley City Code, to allow
a second accessory structure over 240 square feet; and per
�-� Section 205.24.04.D of the Fridley City Code, to allow
construction of an accessory structure in the flood fringe
;� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. 3EPTEMBER 21. 1994 PAGE 5
district, on Lots 19 - 22, Block U, Riverview Heights,
generally located at 8041 Riverview Terrace N.E.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Oquist, to waive the
reading of the public hearing notice and to open the public
hearing.
OPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERBON NEWMAN DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED AND THE PIIBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 7:48 P.M.
Ms. McPherson stated the subject parcel is located at the
intersection of Riverview Terrace and Ely Street. The property is
zoned R-1, Single Family Dwelling, as are the surrounding parcels.
The request is a two-part request. First, the petitioner wishes
to build a second accessory structure measuring 26 feet x 30 feet.
Second, the accessory structure is to be built in the flood fringe
district. The petitioner also applied for a variance to reduce the
set back from 30 feet to 19 feet in order to line up the proposed
accessory structure with the side of the.existing dwelling. The
Appeals Commission reviewed the request at its September 13, 1994,
and unanimously approved the request.
Ms. McPherson stated that located on the property is a single
family dwelling with a 19 foot x 24 foot attached garage. The
�`�� proposed accessory structure is over 240 square feet; therefore,
a special use permit is required. The petitioner intends to store
vehicles and miscellaneous items within the structure. Because
vehicles will be stored in the structure, a hard surface driveway
is required. Typically, the City required the structure be
architecturally compatible with the existing dwelling.
Ms. McPherson stated, in order to allow construction in a flood
fringe district, accessory structures are permitted if a special
use permit is issued. Unlike habitable living space, they are
permitted to be constructed below the regulatory flood elevation
if they are properly flood proofed in accordance with the current
regulations.
Ms. McPherson stated the City has typically required the petitioner
to execute and record against the property a hold-harmless
agreement to release the City from any liability as a result of the
special use permit issuance.
Ms. McPherson stated Riverview Terrace is currently used as a flood
control structure and is anticipated to be reconstructed in the
near future. The Engineering Department is attempting to acquire
the necessary easements to accomplish this goal. In the 1960's,
the City previously condemned easements along the westerly property
lines of the properties adjacent to Riverview Terrace. There is
�, a four-foot easement along the majority of the westerly property
line already. The Engineering Department has requested an
""^ PLANNING COMMIBBION MEETING� 3EPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 6
additional 11-foot flood control street and utility easement along
the west property line.
Ms. McPherson stated the City currently does not have on file a
current survey showing the property and the location of dwelling
plus the condemned and proposed easements. Staff is requesting
that the petitioner submit a current property survey showing these
items.
Ms . McPherson stated the request does not adversely impact adj acent
properties and it meets the requirements of the R-1 district with
the exception of the variance granted by the Appeals Commission.
Staff recommends approval with the following stipulations:
1. The petitioner shall provide a hard surface driveway by
October 3, 1995.
2. The structure shall be architecturally compatible with the
existing dwelling.
3. The accessory structure shall be flood-proofed in accordance
with current regulations.
� 4. The petitioner shall execute and record against the property
� a hold-harmless agreement indemnifying the City from liability
should flood damage to the structure occur.
5. The petitioner shall dedicate a 11-foot flood control street
and utility easement along the west property line.
6. The petitioner shall submit a current property survey showing
the existing condemnation area, as well as the requested 11-
foot flood control street and utility easement.
Mr. Kondrick asked if there were any objections from the neighbors.
Ms. McPherson stated staff had not received any calls regarding
this request.
Mr. Rice stated stipulation #3 stated the structure shall be flood
proofed in accordance with current regulations. Then the City
wants him to execute a hold-harmless agreement against the
property. The structure needs to be flood proofed. If it gets
flooded, what does he need an agreement for?
Mr. Newman stated the hold-harmless agreement is for the City. If
something happens to it, then he or future owners cannot come back
to the City and say, because the City allowed the structure to be
built in a flood plain, the City should compensate the owner for
,� any loss.
;� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 7
Mr. Rice stated he cannot go along with the last stipulation to
submit a current property survey. This is another expense that he
�annot go along with. All the stakes are there on the property
lines. He called the City and the reason they want the easement
is to put in a north/south storm sewer. He just wants to make sure
he does not have a road 10 feet from his window.
Ms. Savage explained the Commission might not be able to approve
the request unless he as petitioner is willing to abide by the
stipulations.
Mr. Rice stated he did not see why he has to spend additional money
for a survey to build a garage.
Mr. Kondrick asked what Mr. Rice felt was wrong with the
stip�lation.
Mr. Rice stated he felt he was being asked to spend excess dollars
needlessly. The City is asking for an easement and also asking him
to survey the property to show he is giving them the easement. And
he has to spend the extra $500-$600.
Ms. McPherson stated the last stipulation came as a request from
the Engineering Department. The Engineering Department has a
�� concern that the surve that is in the
Y packet is not a true
reflection of the conditions in the field today, and the City
should have a current property survey on file. The City has old
surveys in many address files. In some instances, there are no
surveys. In that case, the City tells the property owners that
they should acquire a survey. It is the purvitw of the Commission
to decide if this request is reasonable or unreasonable.
Mr. Saba asked, if the Engineering Department is concerned about
the property lines, can the City go out with a transit and check
the posts.
Ms. McPherson stated this is correct. The City does have a survey
crew that can go out and locate those posts.
Mr. Rice stated he would think the City would survey before they
put in a sewer.
Ms. Dacy stated the property owners typically assume those
responsibilities for the reason that the surveyor is certifying the
lot lines are located in the right spot and they are signing off
that this is an accurate representation of what is in the field.
Staff are concerned that they do not have a registered surveyor on
staff. If one of our employees made a mistake, the property owner
and/or other owners could came back to the City.
°`� PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING SEPTSMHER 21, 1994 PAGE 8
Mr. Kondrick asked if is there is any way of knowing that, since
this property is already recorded, there is an accurate survey of
this already.
Ms. Dacy stated she has not spoken specifically to the Public Works
Department. The survey on file is dated March, 1959. She does not
know if the irons are still there. With the condemnation, there
was probably a description for that four-foot area. The Commission
can eliminate that stipulation if they feel it is not appropriate.
Mr. Kondrick asked the petitioner how long he had lived at this
location.
Mr. Rice stated he has lived there since 1989. The proposed garage
is within the irons for the property.
Mr. Newman asked if staff is concerned with where the structure is
located.
Ms. McPherson stated the concern is that the survey we are looking
at does not accurately reflect the condemnation area. We do have
an as built survey as we would typically require with new
construction. The survey is not an up-to-date accurate survey
�-..
truly reflecting the property changes since 1959.
Mr. Oquist asked if that was true of all properties. His home was
built approximately the same time so would he also have to have his
property surveyed?
Ms. McPherson stated staff would ask the property owner to verify
that the property is accurate according to what is on file.
Mr. Newman stated this request was not made of the last petitioner.
It looks as the City wants the survey for the easements. He did
not think it is proper to request this for an accessory structure.
If there is an error, he thought they should throw all this out.
It looks as t�ough the Public Works Department is looking for a
survey to verify the easement. The petitioner is already providing
the easement and he was not sure it was fair to ask the petitioner
to also verify that easement.
Mr. Rice agreed. The other stipulations make sense to him.
MOTION by Mr. Saba, seconded by Mr. Kondrick, to close the public
hearing.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSOld NEWMAN DECLARED T8E
MOTION CARRIED AND THE PIIBLIC $EARING CL03ED AT 8:07 P.M.
Mr. Kondrick stated he had no problem with the exception that we
have agreed to eliminate the last stipulation.
,'�, PLANNINa COMMISSION MEETING� SEPTEMBER 21. 1994 PAGE 9
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Oquist, to recommend
approval of Special Use Permit, SP #94-13, by John Rice, Jr., to
allow a second accessory structure over 240 square feet; and per
Section 205.24.04 of the Fridley City Code, to allow construction
of an accessory structure in the floor fringe district, on Lots 19
- 22, Block U, Riverview Heights, generally located at 8041
Riverview Terrace N.E. with the following stipulations:
1. The petitioner shall provide a hard surface driveway by
October 3, 1995.
2. The structure shall be architecturally compatible with the
existing dwelling.
3. i'The accessory structure shall be flood-proofed in accordance
with current regulations.
4. The petitioner shall execute and record against the property
a hold-harmless agreement indemnifying the City from liability
should flood damage to the structure occur.
5. The petitioner shall dedicate a 11-foot flood control street
and utility easement along the west property line.
�� Ms. Savage stated she was concerned about the stipulation
as to whether it is being asked for in other situations.
If it is something that is consistently required, she
felt it was okay. There are times the homeowner is
required to incur extra cost for a variance or special
use permit. If this is a consistent request of staff,
she thought we should keep that stipulation.
Ms. McPherson stated, typically, under new construction
the building inspection department does require a
verifying survey prior to the foundation being capped.
If a person comes in for a variance or special use permit
and there is nothing on file, then staff inform the
property owner they are required to have a survey so the
City has an accurate representation to start from. If
there is something on file, oftentimes if the petitioner
can verify the conditions are close or accurate, staff
allow that survey to stand. In this particular instance,
this is the first time this has been requested. There
is no precedent.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOII3LY.
Ms. McPherson stated the City Council would consider this request
at their meeting on October 3rd.
3. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATIOAT OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SP
#94-14, BY WAL-MART STORESs
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMB$R 21. 1994 PAGE 10
Per Section 205.14.01.C.(13) of the Fridley City Code, to
allow the expansion of an existing garden center on Lot 1,
Block 1, Wal-Mart in Fridley, the same being 8450 University
Avenue N.E.
MOTION by Ms. Savage, seconded by Mr. Kondrick, to waive the
reading of the public hearing notice and to open the public
hearing.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERBON NEWMAN DECLARED T8E
MOTION CARRIED AND THE PIIBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 8:10 P.M.
Ms. McPherson stated Wal-Mart is located at the intersection of
85th Avenue and University Avenue. The request is to allow the
expansion of the existing garden center. The property is zoned C-
2, General Business District. In 1992, the City Council approved
a special use permit to allow an outdoor garden center along the
easterly facade of the Wal-Mart building. In 1994, the City
Council again approved a special use permit to allow a garden
center located in the parking lot. As a condition of the special
use permit, SP #94-01, the City required Wal-Mart to submit
building plans prior to the end of 1994 to expand the garden center
which was originally approved in 1992. The original garden center
has design elements which are to be included in the expansion. The
�'� petitioner has submitted a plan showing a 50 foot x 68 foot
expansion just south of the existing garden center.
A portion of the existing garden center adjacent to the building
wall is enclosed and used during the winter season for temporary
storage. The enclosure is of plywood which is painted grey and
which is not consistent with the exterior rock face block on the
original building. When the City granted the original special use
permit, the City did not authorize the use of the garden center
space for storage for off-season materials and this activity needs
to be discontinued. The proposed garden center expansion will
displace four deciduous and one evergreen. These trees should be
relocated on site and any needed repairs to the irrigation system
should be taken care of.
Ms. McPherson stated the proposed garden center does not adversely
impact the lot coverage or setback requirements. Some additional
items that came up as a result of staff's review include the fact
that the petitioner has been using the trailer parking area for
storage of pallets and baled cardboard. In addition, the area
adjacent to the loading dock is also being used for outdoor storage
via the use of 10 dropped trailers. Neither activities are
permitted without the issuance of a special use permit. The
petitioner was advised in February 1994 regarding similar
activities and the petitioner was requested via letter to
� discontinue these activities. If additional storage is required,
the petitioner should consider expanding the building, which was
included as part of the original building planse
��
�,
PLANNI_NG COMMI33ION MEETING 3EPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 11
Ms. McPherson stated, also as a result of the review, staff
observed during the summer t�at the front sidewalk was being used
for an outdoor display of products. This activit� is not
authorized by code and should not be continued in the future.
Ms. McPherson stated the garden center does not adversely impact
the site, setback requirements or lot coverage. Staff recommends
approved of the request with the following stipulations:
1. No garden center sales shall occur in the parking lot as
conducted in 1993.
2. The displaced trees and irrigation shall be replaced/
relocated by the petitioner.
3.
4.
The petitioner shall immediately cease the outdoor storage of
pallets, baled cardboard, and dropped trailers.
The petitioner shall not be permitted to display products on
the front sidewalk.
5. The petitioner shall discontinue use of the garden center for
storage of off-season merchandise. The garden center shall
not be used for the storage of non-garden center items.
Mr. Kondrick asked if the City had received a response from Wal-
Mart to the City's written objections to those items that were not
in compliance.
Ms. McPherson stated staff did not have an opportunity this summer
to address the display of products. There is a letter in the
packet dated February 25, 1994, to Wal-Mart regarding their special
use permit application for the parking lot garden center which
indicated the City had observed the dropped storage trailers.
Staff was informed by Mr. Woodley, the store manager, that these
were used for seasonal storage for Christmas merchandise and they
were having problems with the company owning the containers to move
them in a timely fashion. At that time, they did remove the
trailers. Staff has noticed that the trailers have now returned
and also that pallets and baled cardboard were also being stored
in the parking area where it can be seen from the street.
Mr. Newman asked if he was correct in saying that, in summary, the
issue is the storage of materials in the garden center and staff
in essence is saying they would not do anything if Wal-Mart went
through the process.
Ms. McPherson stated, if
to be a temporary measure
�, center, the City would be
approved.
the garden center in the parking lot was
while they expanded the existing garden
inclined to recommend approval. This was
-"� PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 12
Mr. Newman stated the storage issue raised is then different from
this. Has staff raised the storage issue with the petitioner?
Ms. McPherson stated staff has raised the storage issue of the
dropped trailers, pallets and baled cardboard in February. Staff
did not realize there was storage in the garden center area until
the site review for this request.
Mr. Hamlin, Assistant Manager at Wal-Mart, stated he is concerned
with the stipulation to cease outdoor storage of pallets,
cardboard, and�dropped trailers. At the time they were going
through the process for the special use permit, it �as mentioned
about the trailers. They did remove the trailers and explained
that this was a temporary situation during the Christmas season.
At that time, it was their understanding that the trailers would
not be allowed unless they were screened from the public right-of-
way. They have parked a 6Ja1-Mart trailer first so they consider
those to be screened from the public right-of-way when going down
University. Last year, Wal-Mart had 28 trailers. This year they
will not be receiving as much merchandise. They have committed to
have no more than the ones they have now which are parked against
the back of the building and which they consider to be screened.
Mr. Hamlin stated the bales and pallets have always been outside.
�` There is nowhere else to store them. He was not aware of that
issue.
Mr. Hamlin referred to the temporary wall in the garden center.
This is something they had also done last year. This is a
necessity for temporary storage for the Christmas season for excess
merchandise. They did paint it gray so it matches the side of the
store. He was not aware that this was an issue.
Ms. Savage stated these are violations of the code and must be
resolved.
Mr. Hamlin asked what alternatives they had. Storage inside the
building is not humanly possible during the Christmas season. Half
of all sales are done in the three month Christmas season. It
makes it very difficult to store enough merchandise inside. If
they were to do that, they would not have enough room to receive
new merchandise. Last year, all that merchandise was removed by
Christmas. They did have a problem getting the trailers removed
in a timely fashion. This year, the trailers will be removed and
they have discussed this with the people who brought in trailers
that they do need to be removed.
Mr. Newman stated one alternative is to add on to the building.
The petitioner may have a problem, but other merchants face the
;� same problems. The petitioner may have to face the fact that an
addition may need to be constructed.
�-.� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMHER 21, 1994 PAGE 13
Mr. Hamlin asked the wording of the code.
Ms. Dacy read those portions of the code pertaining to outdoor
storage.
Mr. Hamlin asked if it was possible to obtain a special use permit
for that storage.
Ms. Dacy stated the Planning Commission has two options. The issue
of the off-season storage in the garden center is germane to this
request. In terms of the storage to the rear, if Wal-Mart wants
to file another application to address that issue, that is fine.
In the meantime, however, they must comply with the code.
Mr. Newman asked if the special use permit allows the trailers to
be stored to the rear of the building.
Ms. Dacy stated the special use permit would be required if they
are going to store the dropped trailers on an ongoing basis. Staff
recommended as a stipulation with this request that they comply
with the ordinance.
Mr. Hamlin stated there are other trailers stored in the City and
that, when they were initially built, had to build a retaining wall
�""� to screen anything in the back area. That would be something they
could do.
Ms. Dacy stated that would be even better. If the company wants
to file a special use permit and propose a permanent screen such
as nice wall that is fine. Some of the issues are that staff has
pointed out the issues to the company when they first went through
the permitting process and tried to take extra care on landscaping
and design issues on the garden area. Those types of suggestions
would be welcome for a permanent screen. We also know that the
company did plan for a building addition on the site plan. If
these types of problems are occurring, perhaps this should be
addressed as soon as possible.
Mr. Hamlin stated financially an expansion would not be cost-
effective for three months of the year. That is why they run into
this issue for a short time of the year. The wall seems to be a
good way to go.
Mr. Newman stated Wal-Mart could also get a temporary special use
permit for the trailers. Parking a Wal-Mart trailer at the end of
other.trailers does not qualify as screening..
Mr. Hamlin stated he has a problem with stipulation #5 which
addresses the temporary wall as far as storage requirements in the
r,,• garden center.
;---.
�,
PLANNINa COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMHER 21, 1994 PAd$ 14
Ms. Dacy stated this is germane to this request because the special
use permit is for the garden center. If he feels the wall is
appropriate and wants to allow the storaqe, that is up to the
Commission to decide.
Mr. Hamlin stated their biggest obstacle is dealing with freight.
they get on a daily basis and especially during the Christmas
season. Right now, that whole inside area with the temporary wall
is filled with toys to have on hand when the peak season hits. It
is part of the business. They must have the merchandise on hand
and it needs to be stored. They do this in other stores. There
is a daily issue of what to do with the merchandise. They need the
extra space and have screened the space with a temporary wall.
Mr. Newman stated the Commission wants to support businesses. The
City has spent a lot of money to enhance the appearance along
University Avenue. The impression of people as they pass through
the community has improved. Unfortunately, the way Wal-Mart is
situated along the street, the loading docks are very visible from
the street. The City wants businesses to be successful but are
also.concerned about appearance. He recommended sitting down with
staff to discuss how to meet the concerns of both.
Mr. Hamlin stated he understands the City wanting to keep up
appearances and would be happy to discuss this with staff.
Mr. Newman suggested the public hearing be continued to the next
meeting to allow the petitioner to work with staff.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Savage, to close the public
hearing.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CIiAIRPER30N NE�MAN DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED AND THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 8:90 P.M.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Savage, to table discussion
of Special Use Permit, SP #94-14, to the next meeting on October 5
to provide an opportunity for the petitioner and staff to discuss
the issues further.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMADT DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOUSLY.
4. LOT SPLIT REOUEST L S #94-05 BY JOHN TILLER:
To split Lot 20, Auditor's Subdivision No. 92 into two
parcels:
Parcel A
That part of the
,—, Subdivision No.
` ' of the south 17
feet.
south half of that part of Lot 20, Auditor's
92, Anoka County, Minnesota, which lies north
8 feet of said Lot 20, except the westerly 20
r^`�., PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING� SEPTEMBER 21,�1994 PAGE 15
Parcel B
That part of the south 178 feet of said Lot 20 lying west of
the east 75 feet of said Lot 20.
This property is generally located at 1535 Gardena Avenue N.E.
Mr. Hickok stated the lot referred to in the report is Auditor's
Subdivision 92, Lot 20. In the report, Mr. Bailey Tiller and Mr.
John Tiller are mentioned. The three properties are owned by
members of the Tiller family. Mr. John Tiller is not a property
owner but rather the spokesman for Mr. Bailey Tiller.
Mr. Hickok stated the property is located at the northeast corner
of Gardena Street and Oakwood Manor. The site was first subdivided
in 1964. Prior to that subdivision, Mr. Bailey Tiller owned all
of Lot 20, Auditor's Subdivision 92. Through the subdivision
process and later in 1964 the property was divided into the north
and south half. At that time, Oakwood Manor was planned but did
not extend all the way down to Gardena Avenue so a 20-foot easement
was taken from the northern property. In 1965, there was a further
subdivision which created two additional lots in the southern half
of the development. As staff reviewed the files, staff discovered
there is a history that leaves some questions.
�'"'� Mr. Hickok stated one question is that, at the time of the 1965
subdivision, these lots were clearly discussed in the minutes.
There was not a discussion of A and B necessarily. Through a
finding in 1987, staff discovered that the 1965 subdivision was not
filed and therefore had run its course beyond the time limits to
do so. Staff asked the City to reconsider and to solidify that
subdivision.
Mr. Hickok stated another question comes with the line between Lots
B and C in 1965 and the legal description in 1987 that clearly
shows Lot C as a free standing lot and Lot B as an "L" shaped lot.
To further complicate matters, in 1966 a 30 foot x 30 foot concrete
block garage was built. In 1976, a barn type structure, 10 feet
x 12 feet, was also constructed on Lot B. With a legal description
that shows Lot B as a contiguous lot, the structures were permitted
to be constructed. There was a principal structure on Lot B which
was Bailey Tiller's home at the time. Since then, there was a fire
and a new home built on Lot B. The petitioner has asked to
subdivide to clear up any inaccuracies in the legal description and
go back to a free standing lot, as they thought they had in 1965.
The subdivision would then appear as it was believed to be
subdivided in 1965.
Mr. Hickok stated staff reviewed and discussed the issue of the
code requirement for accessory structures on a free standing lot.
� The code requires that a lot not have accessory structures prior
' to a principal structure. Therein lies the difficulty. It is the
petitioner's intent to leave the accessory structures on that site
�� PL_ANNING COMMISSION MEETIN(3, SEPTEMBER 21 1994 PAGE 16
until there is a new owner, and it would be the new owner's
decision to keep or tear down those structures. That does run
contrary to the code, and staff feels there is the poten�ial of
limiting the placement of the homes based on the setbacks. There
is a stipulation where staff ask that those buildings be removed.
Mr. Hickok stated, in light of the history, staff recommend
approval of the lot split with the following stipulations:
1. Staff recommends approval of a variance to the lot width
requirement of 75 feet to allow the creation of this 74.51
foot wide lot.
2. A verification survey will be required to determine setback
distances.
3. All accessory buildings. shall be raised, from the newly
created lot, prior to filing the lot split with Anoka County.
4. Lot split #94-05 shall be recorded by October 3, 1995, or
prior to transfer of ownership, whichever occurs first.
5. A park dedication fee of $750.00 shall be paid prior to
issuance of a building permit for this parcel.
i"`�
6. The property owner shall be responsible for the installation
of separate sewer and water to accommodate a new residence on
the newly created lot.
7. A 20 foot utility easement shall be dedicated, across the
Oakwood Manor (west) end of the newly created lot and the lot
at the corner of Oakwood Manor and Gardena Street, adjacent
to the right-of-way.
Mr. Newman asked if the verification survey in stipulation #2 is
for the structures on Lot A.
Mr. Hickok stated Lot A is a free standing lot and is now under
separate ownership.
Mr. Newman asked, if we do verification and there is encroachment
inside the setback, granting the lot split will not create that.
Mr. Hickok stated the verification would provide a very clear
description of all four lots. The petitioners did believe that in
going through the building permit process that this was the proper
setback. With verification of where that structure is, we would
also be able to determine a very clear distinction of the four lots
and where the homes are placed on those four lots. This would be
of benefit to the City and to future oraners.
.�� PLANNING COMMI83ION MEETING� 3EPTEMBER 21. 1994 PAGE 17
Mr. Oquist asked if the separate sewer and water would be for the
lot to be created.
Mr. Hickok stated yes.
Mr. John Tiller stated his father has been given approval for the
lot split. He thinks he is asking for re-approval of something
that was already given him. He does not want the stipulations.
He just wants to sell the lot as it is. He wishes it would be more
open ended. He would like three years to record the lot split so
he can take it as his leisure and sell as he gets an opportunity.
There would not be pressure to have this done in any specific time.
It is his desire to waive the stipulations and approve the original
split without the burden placed on him with the stipulations added
after the fact.
Mr. Oquist asked if the original lot split was approved.
Mr. Hickok stated Mr. Bailey Tiller came back in 1987 because the
1965 documents were not filed. The legal descriptions given were
for the "L" shaped lot and the free standing lot.
Mr. Oquist stated the City then did not approve a lot split such
as currently being requested.
��
Mr. John Tiller stated he believed the lot split was approved but
not filed and the time span elapsed. Therefore, he wants to split
the other portion facing south. He wanted it for the time that he
was ready and he now is ready.
Mr. Newman asked if this was consistent.
Mr. Hickok stated, in 1964, the north/south split is clear.
Discussion about splitting the south portion into C and D was in
1965 and action was taken to create Lots C and D. Historically,
the north/south division in 1964 was correct. In 1965, Lots C and
D were created and approved. This left B as a piece of property
in the center which was later described in 1987 as two lots and the
line did not appear. Our assessment data shows that the assessor
had B and C as they were described in 1987 as the legal
descriptions for those lots.
Mr. Newman asked to clarify that the petitioner has the proper
split for A, proper split for D, but the records are not clear that
B and C were split.
Mr. Hickok stated there was a north/south split. Lot A is now a
free standing lot. That is what he considers a historical question
mark. A building permit was issued for that home in 1965 and was
,,...� recognized as a free standing lot. The question is the recording
of the 1965 southern half. In 1987, there was nothing on record
,�
!"1
�-,
�
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 18
showing Lots C and D. That the way it is filed. The petitioner
is asking for the description they believed they had in 1965.
Mr. Newman asked if there was any record that the petitioner was
made aware of the timeline in which the petitioner had to file.
Mr. Hickok stated the minutes pertained to the split itself and not
the number of lots and there was not a lot of discussion on the
time allowed to do so. Basically, there was a split. Mr. Hickok
stated he had to assume that when the petitioner went through the
process and worked with staff, they would have walked him through
the process much as staff does today.
Mr. Tiller stated his father was not made aware that he had to do
anything specific.
Ms. Savage asked if the petitioners had received approval for the
buildings.
Mr. Hickok stated they received approval in 1966 and 1976 from the
building staff. At that time, they looked at the legal description
available and approved both on the upper portion of what is Lot B
in the 1987 diagram. If a lot is created without a principal
structure, then those accessory structures need to be razed.
Mr. Tiller stated they received building permits for the accessory
structures and the buildings were placed with full knowledge that
a house would be built there in the future.
Mr. Oquist stated, if the legal description was as seen in 1987,
these are accessory structures to the house that was on Lot B.
Mr. Tiller stated there was no intent to go that way and he did not
know how it happened.
Mr. Oquist stated, if the legal description would have been as
shown for 1965, the petitioner would not have received a permit for
the accessory structures.
Mr. Jerry Tiller lives on Lot D on the 1965 drawing. When his
father placed the accessory structures, he did so in such a way to
leave room for a future house on that lot. Since he did at that
time, he didn't think he would now be asked now to raze those same
buildings placed strategically in 1965. He does not wish to remove
them. The question mark in history is the issue.
Mr. Oquist stated the concern is that, if those structures are not
razed, someone could buy the lot, not build on it, and use those
structures for something else.
Mr. Hickok stated this was correct. The intent is to have a
residential use in the R-1 district and not for something else.
�, PLANNING_COMNlI83ION MEETING. 3EPTEMBER 21. 1994 PAGE 19
Mr. Oquist asked, if someone were to buy that lot and asked for a
building permit, would they need a special use permit because they
have those two accessory structures.
Mr. Hickok stated he was not sure.
Mr. Newman stated the Commission needs to be careful about setting
a precedent.
Ms. Dacy stated another reason for concern on the accessory
buildings on Lot B is there is a bathroom in one of the structures
which was conr�ected on one line•into the house. After the house
burned about two years ago, they dealt with this. There should not
be a separate water and sewer connection until the lot is c�eated.
They are trying to resolve the situation and formally create the
lot as the petitioner wants. Now, we need to problem solve to get
the lot created and get the issue resolved.
Mr. Newman asked the purpose for not allowing an accessory
structure before the house.
Mr. Hickok stated the principal use in the R-1 district is as a
single family structure which must be there prior to the accessory
structure being built.
!"'� Mr. NeFaman asked if there was anything in the code that addresses
this particular issue. At the time the accessory structure were
authorized, the principal structure was in place. Is there
anything that says you can have a lot split?
Mr. Hickok stated staff concern is that it could happen that the
principal use could be something other than single family. Future
owners may not built there.
Mr. Oquist asked, when those two accessory structures were granted
building permits, were they also granted special use permits.
Mr. Hickok stated he believed the accessory structures goes back
to 1959 that these were accessory building to the principal
structure. The 240 square feet was more recent. There was no
special use permit for the structures.
Mr. Newman stated, concerning the stipulation that the lot split
be recorded, the petitioner desired to delay this for three years.
What is the hardship?
Mr. John Tiller stated his father does not want to split the
property unless he sells it. He wants a reasonable amount of time
to file.
Mr. Newman asked if there was an economic hardship.
Mr. John Tiller did not think that had a bearing.
�
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING� BEPTEA4BER 21, 1994 PAGE 20
Mr. Newman stated they want to try to avoid what happened in 1965
which was a lot split that was not recorded and now we are trying
to figure out what happened 30 years later.
Mr. John Tiller stated this might happen sooner but his father does
not want to feel pressured if the lot does not get sold.
Mr. Newman stated recording the lot split does not mean the lot
must be sold.
Mr. Oquist asked if the request could be approved with a
stipulation that, when the lost is sold, it must be sold with the
intent of building a house on the lot. The concern is someone
would buy the property with the accessory buildings and use it for
storage.
Mr. Newman asked if it was permitted to buy a lot and use it for
storage.
Ms. Dacy stated the permitted'uses are one family dwellings and
single family attached dwellings. Accessory uses are storage.
Mr. Newman stated, if someone bought the property, they would not
be able to buy it and use it for storage because storage is only
�`'� allowed as an accessory use with a principal single family
dwelling. �
Ms. Dacy stated this was correct. As a word of caution, if the
Commission were to allow the accessory structures to remain, one
structure has a bathroom and there should not be occupaney in that
building. If you want to leave the accessory buildings on the lot,
you need to address that the building not be occupied as a home.
Mr. Newman asked if the City records show any payment of a park
dedication fee.
Mr. Hickok stated he believed there was discussion of park fees in
1965. As far as payment, he believed they were waived in 1965 for
the lot that was created. In creating a new lot now, the park
dedication fee would be required because this is a new lot
according to our records.
Mr. Oquist asked if there was a statute of limitations if this is
approved and not filed that the approval is then removed.
Mr. Hickok stated there is a limitation, but he did not know the
specific time.
Mr. Oquist stated, in order to get this cleared up and get the lot
� split taken care of, he would be in favor of leaving the accessory
buildings with the stipulation they cannot be lived in, but the
�`',
�"`�
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1999 PAGE 21
other stipulations need to be adhered to in order to make sure we
don't come back and go through this again in the future.
Mr. John Tiller stated he would like to waive the survey because
it was surveyed for the earlier lot split.
Mr. Dave Tiller stated he built a house in 1963 and they did a
survey at that time. There is a survey from 1964.
Mr. Hickok stated the 1964 survey was in the City's files as well.
Staff believes the action in 1964 was based on that survey. That
survey showed up again in the materials from 1964 request when
there was the subdivision of the north and south half. He believed
that survey was done initially to show the future subdivision;
therefore, action was taken in 1964 and 1965. Had that survey
stood, they would not have come back in 1987.
Mr. Newman asked if this survey accurately reflects the current
request.
Mr. Hickok stated it does not. When the southern portion was
subdivided, the lot line would shift. Staff would really like to
verify where the lot lines are in this subdivision.
Mr. Newman stated there are going to be costs involved and there
will be a mechanism by which to pay for the survey and the park
fees.
Mr. Oquist asked how much time is allowed.
Mr. Newman stated that goes for the argument for three years rather
than one.
MOTION by Mr. Oquist, seconded by Mr. Kondrick, to approve Lot
Split, LS #94-14, by John Tiller, to split Lot 20, Auditor's
Subdivision No. 92 into two parcels:
Parcel A- That part of the south half of that part of Lot 20,
Auditor's Subdivision No. 92, Anoka County, Minnesota, which
lies north of the south 178 feet of said Lot 20, except the
westerly 20 feet.
Parcel B- That part of the south 178 feet of said Lot 20
lying west of the east 75 feet of said Lot 20.
This property is generally located at 1535 Gardena Avenue N.E. with
the following stipulations:
1. Staff recommends approval of a variance to the lot width
� requirement of 75 feet to allow the creation of this 74.51
foot wide lot.
�°"�, PLANNING COMMI38ION MEETING� 3EPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 22
2. A verification survey will be required to determine setback
distances.
3. All accessory buildings shall be permitted to remain on the
newly created lot but shall not be occupied.
4. Lot split #94-05 shall be recorded by October 3, 1997, or when
the property is sold, whichever occurs first.
5. A park dedication fee of $750.00 shall be paid prior to
issuance of a building permit for this parcel.
6. The property owner shall be responsible for the installation
of separate sewer and water to accommodate a new residence on
the newly created lot.
7. A 20 foot utility easement shall be dedicated, across the
Oakwood Manor (west) end of the newly created lot and the lot
at the corner of Oakwood Manor and Gardena Street, adjacent
to the right-of-way.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
� Ms. McPherson stated the City Council would review this request at
their meeting of October 3rd.
5. PRESENTATION BY DESIGN CONSULTANTS ON THE SOUTHWEST OUADRANT
Ms. Dacy stated she would like the Commission to discuss with the
consultants the general elements of what they would like to see on
the site plan for the Southwest Quadrant. At the next meeting, the
consultants will come back after incorporating the ideas from
tonight and talk about the next phase which includes the exterior
design.
Ms. O'Connell, Site Planner, stated they have for the site are
three diverse concept plans which were created in response to City
direction and with the intent to create discussion. These are not
final plans. Tonight, she and Mr. Carlson will listen, gather
information and facilitate discussion about the plans. They have
visited the site, looked at aerial photos, read the reports on
housing, reviewed park and trail plans, looked at adjacent property
values, etc. To achieve this discuss.ion after the Commission has
seen the plans, she will show a matrix of site plan issues and
elements. Right now they will be looking at the outdoor spacial
elements - arrangement of the buildings, landscaping and berming
combined with the architecture to create a sense of place. The
Commission will not be looking specifically at architectural
� elements, but rather whether the construction would be townhouses
or villas, one or two story, etc. She reviewed the site as it
currently exists including topographical information. They have
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 23
been asked to look at 10 acres. At this time, the plans do not
directly show the 4 acres with the apartments as being part of the
site but they will address how the site could be expanded. .
Ms. Dacy stated there are currently buildings on the 10-acre site
which will be razed.
Mr. Kondrick asked what effect the apartments would have on the
overall property in terms of the final cost of the units.
Ms. Dacy stated this is an issue the HRA will decide. Something
will be done at the apartments in combination with the development.
Ms. O'Connell stated, when reviewing the site plans, they were also
asked to achieve a density of 100 units.
Ms. O'Connell reviewed Plan A. This plan has a 50-foot setback
along Mississippi and University for a berm 7-8 feet high as a
sound barrier. It does not need to be continuous. There is also
a sound wall. The density of this plan is 102 units. The
buildings are mostly two story with villa-type units. One-story
units will decrease the density. The open space is broken up by
clusters of buildings. The plan can be modified for additional
acres if they are added. Third Avenue bisects the development and
� open onto Mississippi across from the shopping center. The
neighborhood wants access to Mississippi.
Ms. O'Connell stated Plan B consists of two-story attached
townhouses. The road goes around the outside of the site. There
is a berm along Mississippi and along University. This plan has
a pedestrian walkway to allow walking from one corner of the site
to another without crossing the street. The density is 91 units.
This plan allows for a private backyard that could be fenced in.
This plan could also accommodate expansion if the apartment site
were to be added in the future.
Ms. O'Connell stated Plan C is situated in such a way that the
houses are oriented toward a center "village green" area. The road
in this plan bisects the site. The units would be townhouse units
and can be one or two story. The density as presented is 102
units. In this plan, there is less setback to the street and they
recommend a sound wall along Mississippi. The idea of the village
green is to add distance between the houses. This is a public
space in the center of the units.
Mr. Oquist asked if they had taken readings on the property to see
what the noise levels actually are.
Ms. O'Connell stated they have not. They h�ve noise consultants
,�., in a subcontract arrangement, have talked with them to do get
� accurate readings which is an additional cost beyond the scope of
this contract.
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 24
Mr. Kondrick stated Prior Lake and Eden Prairie are looking at a
gate community. What if we walled this is? What happens to it?
Does that make it more exclusive?
Mr. Oquist thought this would isolate the area.
Mr. Newman stated gates at the entrance would restrict vehicular
traffic. They can put gates within the property.
Mr. Carlson stated the units are intended to be owner occupied.
The best way to keep the value up is for private ownership. Each
unit should be owned and each neighborhood owned so there is a
sense of community.
Mr. Oquist asked the rationale for the density of 100 units.
Ms. Dacy stated this was recommended to see what could go on the
site and to see what could be expected for the tax increment costs
This is one of the last sites that could take on a higher density.
Mr. Oquist stated he was concerned about traffic for that amount
of density.
Mr. Saba stated access across Mississippi and University for
^ seniors is a problem. They are afraid to cross there even with the
lights. Is it feasible to construct a ramp over the streets?
Ms. O'Connell stated the.plan shows access to the bus stop. The
down side of a ramp is to maneuver-it above the trucks. The berms
would help achieve some of the height.
Mr. Kondrick stated they have not discussed a separate building for
seniors.
Ms. O'Connell stated their direction was to look at owner occupied
townhomes.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments regarding Housing Type and
Density.
Mr. Saba stated he did not like the villa type homes. There were
too many common walls. He had no preference of one or two story
but felt there should be a mixture. He liked the open space on
Plan B with the trail and vegetation.
Mr. Kondrick stated he liked the idea of having 2/3 of the units
two story and 1/2 one story. He liked Plan B better because there
is less density, more green space, and the buffer is wider.
�., Mr. Newman stated, if these units are for empty nesters and senior
citizens, he would recommend units with a main floor master
�+ PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING, BEPTEMHER 21. 1994 PAGE 25
bedroom. With that, the units could all be two story without a
mixture. The villa-type construction would be lower priced.
Ms. Savage stated she did not like the idea oi condos for aesthetic
reasons. She also liked Plan B. She thought Plan C looked
cluttered.
Mr. Oquist agreed that he did not think villas or condos belonged
there. He liked Plan B with the walkway through the site. He also
thought Plan � could be very attractive if done right. He prefers
Plan B having two-story units with a master bedroom on the main
floor.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments regarding Access. The site has
two possible entrances from Mississippi - one across from the
shopping center and the other near the residential area at 2nd
Avenue.
The consensus of the Commission is the 2nd Avenue access is
preferred.
Ms. O'Connell asked if they preferred a collector road or a buffer
between the other land uses.
�� Mr. Saba stated he likes the road on Plan B because it provides
both - transition and buffer.
Mr. Newman stated he liked Plan C with the village greens. He
thought this more important than the transition road. However,
traffic is less direct and should not be as high speed on Plan B.
Ms. Savage stated she like B and also had interest in C.
Mr. Carlson stated they could put the road around the outside of
the complex and, with the village green concept, provide access
along the west side of the site.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments regarding Open Space.
Mr. Oquist stated some plans show more detail. On other plans,
will there be more trees than what is currently shown.
Ms. O'Connell stated yes.
Ms. Savage stated she liked the village green concept and also the
pedestrian trail.
Mr. Saba stated he liked the pedestrian trail with the vegetation.
� Mr. Oquist and Mr. Kondrick liked Plans B and C.
�1 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 26
Mr. Newman liked Plan C with the village greens and having the road
moved to the perimeter. The circular roads into the development
could be one-way.
Ms. O'Connell stated she could see where, using the village green
concept, people would actually walk around the road. On Plan B,
it is less visual.
Mr. Oquist stated the pedestrian connection would be enhanced if
it were connected to the bikeway/walkway system.
Mr. Newman stated, if on Plan C they did an exterior roadway, they
could change the circular drive to have only one access off the
through street.
Mr. Oquist stated having more of a curve would slow traffic.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments regarding Buffers.
Mr. Kondrick stated buffers would be a must for C.
Ms. Savage and Mr. Saba did not like the idea of walls. They
preferred berms and the road being used as a buffer.
r''� Mr. Saba stated he was not opposed to an entry.
Mr. Oquist stated he was not sure they needed anything from a sound
standpoint. He agreed there is a need to separate those backyards
that abut Mississippi and University perhaps with a fence.
Ms. O'Connell stated she thought the area was quite noisy. From
the rear of the property, the noise is less.
Mr. Carlson stated it is possible to use a road with garages as a
buffer. He was not sure how that would look.
Mr. Kondrick stated he is concerned with noise on both Mississippi
and University.
Mr. Oquist stated he lives near I-694 and hears more noise from the
highway with the sound wall than before.
Mr. Newman stated he had no problem with a fence. There are ways
to put up a fence that would be attractive. He wants the
development to have a sense of exclusivity. A fence could be a
benefit. University Avenue needs a fence. Along Mississippi, they
could use vegetation. We need a way to delineate.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments on the View/Image from Mississippi
� and University.
Mr. Newman stated, in one word, prestige. There are a host of ways
to do this, but he thought it would require heavy landscaping.
�--� PLANNING COMMI88ION MLETING, SEPTEMHER 21, 1994 PAGE 27
Mr. Kondrick agreed. A wall is necessary just as in other
exclusive areas. It does not need to be completely enclosed except
along the major thoroughfare. For those properties that are
against the road, it make them more saleable and more secure.
Mr. Oquist thought a wall gives the feeling that others should stay
out and it isolates the area from the community.
Ms. Savage stated she is concerned about the development. It is
to add to the attractiveness of Fridley and to University Avenue.
She wants it to look attractive when driving by and she did not
want it to be walled off. She thought the site should look good.
Mr. Saba stated he would like to see the design of what is put in
this development carried out all the way to Holiday.
Ms. O'Connell stated she would be surprised if the City would
approve a wall or fence over six feet. A berm could be higher but
requires more room. It is possible to do a combination.
Mr. Oquist stated a berm with a small wall on top would not be as
objectionable to him as just a wall. Along University, he would
like to see more vegetation.
� Ms. Savage stated her main concern is aesthetics.
Ms. O'Connell stated using a wall allows for a smaller setback.
Ms. Savage stated her personal choice would be to have a wider
setback.
The Commission members agreed.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments regarding the Connection to the
Neighborhood to the south.
Mr. Saba stated there is also industry to the west and also the
railroad tracks.
Mr. Oquist thought the traffic should flow somewhat into the
neighborhood. It has to blend into the neighborhood. There must
be some continuity.
The consensus was to have a transition into the neighborhood.
Mr. Saba asked if there was a way to put green areas along the
roadway. Not only does there need to be a transition, but there
also needs to be a buffer.
�..., Mr. Oquist stated, if the apartments are to stay, there will need
to be something there to screen the site from the apartments. He
r--� PLANNING CONIIdIISSION MEETING. BEPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 28
would not want to look at garages. Without the apartments, they
could put in a transition area.
Ms. O'Connell stated, at a minimum, the HRA will spend some money
on the apartments to upgrade.
Mr. Oquist stated, even so, they will still have the back of the
garages there.
Mr. Saba stated he would be concerned about the people living there
and if there would be vandalism.
Mr. Newman stated at University and Mississippi you want to pull
people in, have access to the park to the south and tie into the
bikeway/walkway system.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments on Site Amenities, such as
lighting, fencing, benches along the pedestrian walkway, entry
monuments, etc.
Mr. Saba stated there has been discussion to improve the University
corridor with monuments to identify Fridley. He likes the idea and
thought this may be the place to start. �
�� Mr. Kondrick stated he had a feeling some don't want to be
exclusive. He suggested globe lights and having this be a special
place.
Ms. Savage stated lighting is important. She would like to see
examples of entry monuments. They must be tasteful.
Mr. Newman stated he thouqht the amenities would depend on the
design.
Ms. O'Connell asked for comments about Expansion or ties into the
additional four acres. Did they prefer access into the open space
system?
The Commission consensus was that they felt including the four
acres was important.
Mr. Newman stated that is dependent on the decision of the HRA.
Mr. Oquist stated the apartments could be upgraded and used for
senior housing. That could be done if the buildings were rehabbed
and work the landscaping together into that area as well.
Ms. Dacy stated that option is being evaluated. It comes down to
a cost issue and a policy issue as to whether to acquire buildings
^ that are in fair condition as opposed to buildings in the City that
are in worse condition. The four acres would add more flexibility
but that decision is up to the City Council and HRA.
e
� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. 3EPTEMBER 21, 1994 PAGE 29
Mr. Carlson asked Commission members to call him and/or Ms.
O'Connell if they had any additional comments.
�
ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Oquist, to adjourn the
meeting.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE
MOTIOIJ CARRIED AND THE 3EPTEMBER 21, 1994, PLANNING COMMI38ION
MEETING ADJOIIRNED AT 11217 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
c
�'�j'Y'aL �+, � ,
Lavonn Cooper -"rr..
Recording Secr ar
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S I G N— IN S H E E T
PI�NNING COMMISSION.MEETING, _ Sentember 21, �994
_ ____ �._.