PL 03/29/1995 - 30805�
CITY OF FRIDLEY
BPLCIAL PLANNIN(3 COI�II�II88ION MEETINGr� MARCH 29, 1995
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairperson Newman called the March 29, 1995, special Planning
Commission meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Dave Newman, Dave Kondrick, Connie Modig,
LeRoy Oquist, Dean Saba, Brad Sielaff
Members Absent: Diane Savage
Others Present: Barbara Dacy, Community Development Director
Scott Hickok, Planning Coordinator
Michele McPherson, Planning Assistant
Todd Stutz, Rottlund Homes
Tim Whitten, Rottlund Homes
Paul Danielson, Rottlund Homes
Don Jensen, Rottlund Homes
Tom Harrington, Rottlund Homes
Mark Harris, 195 Satellite Lane, Apt. 2
� Shannon Rodriguez, 175 Satellite Ln, Apt. 2
� Cynthia Gordineer, 175 Satellite Ln, Apt. 16
Michelle Cook, 175 Satellite Lane, Apt. 14
Mary Jane Bright, 155 Satellite Ln, Apt. 30
Bonnie Speed, 155 Satellite Lane, Apt. 33
Tara Johnson, 155 Satellite Lane, Apt. 29
Vern Bluhm, 155 Satellite Lane, Apt. 27
Robert/Olivia Ritchison, 155 Satellite
Lane Apt. 24
Patricia Mims, 195 Satellite Lane, Apt. 2
Phil Kragness & James Kragness, 195 Satellite
Lane, Apt. 13
Chaundra Carroll, 175 Satellite Lane, Apt. 5
Mona Blaut, 175 Satellite Lane, Apt. 9
Eddie Orbita, 195 Satellite Lane, #19
Randy Gust, 175 Satellite Lane, #8
Kirk Hill, Minnesota Tenants Union,
1513 E. Franklin, Minneapolis, NIlJ
Kelly Cran, 175 Satellite Lane
Bob & Lorraine Martin, 6111 Starlite Blvd.
Bob & Delores Baumann, 6120 Trinity Drive
Ray and Margit Hong, 155 Sylvan Lane
A1 Haller, 6200 Jupiter Road
Terry Breza, 6200 Trinity Drive
Steve & Courtney Rathke, 6270 Jupiter Rd
Barb Thorstad, 6211 Starlite Boulevard
�"1 James Kragness, 195 Satellite Ln, Apt. 13
Katie Barry, 195 Satellite Lane, Apt. 18
BPECIAL PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETING. MARC$ 29. 1995 PAGE 2
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APPROVAL OF MARCH 29, 1995, PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Oquist, to approve the
March 29, 1995, Planning Commission minutes as written.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPER80N NEWMAN DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
1. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A PRELIMINARY PLAT
REQUEST. P.S. #95-01. BY THE ROTTLiTND COMPANY. INC.:
The Rottlund Company, Inc., is proposing this plat request in
conjunction with street vacation and rezoning requests in order
to construct 48 senior-only owner-occupied condominiums, 96
owner-occupied attached townhouses, and 26 owner-occupied
detached townhomes. The site is generally located south of
Mississippi Street, west of University Avenue, and north of
Satellite Lane.
AND
2. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A REZONING REQUEST, ZOA
#95-01. BY THE ROTTLUND COMPANY, INC.:
The Rottlund Company, Inc., is proposing this rezoning request in
conjunction with street vacation and preliminary plat requests in
order to construct 48 senior-only owner-occupied condominiums, 96
owner-occupied attached townhouses, and 26 owner-occupied
detached townlzomes. The site is generally located south of
Mississippi Street, west of University Avenue, and north of
Satellite Lane.
Current zoning of the properties are R-3, General Multiple Family
Dwelling, and C-3, General Shopping Center. The proposed zoning
district is S-2, Redevelopment District. The S-2 district
requires plan approval by the Planning Commission and City
Council.
The legal descriptions for these requests are as follows:
Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 6, according to the plat
thereof of record in Anoka County, Minnesota; subject to street
easement conveyed by Document No. 714188; together with
Lot l, Block l, Sylvan Hills Plat 7, according to the plat
thereof of record in Anoka County, Minnesota; subject to street
easement conveyed by Document No. 930569; together with
The east 75.1 feet of Lot 3, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 5,
;� according to the plat thereof of record in Anoka County,
Minnesota, being that part of said Lot 3 lying easterly of Lot 1,
� SP�CIAL PLANNINa CONII+�I88ION MEETINm, MARCB 29. 1995 PAGE 3
64 1/2 Avenue, vacated, which lies southerly and westerly of a
line described in document recorded in Book 905, Page 427;
subject to street easement conveyed by Document No. 969625;
together with
That part of Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 5, according to
the plat thereof of record in Anoka County, Minnesota, and of
abutting 64 1/2 Avenue, vacated, which lies southerly and
westerly of a line described in document recorded in Book 905,
Page 427; together with
That part of the NW 1/4 of the SW 1/4 of Section 14, Township 30
North, Range 24 West, Anoka County, Minnesota (being also part of
Block 12, Lowell's Addition to Fridley Park, together with
abutting vacated alleys) which is more particularly described as
follows: Commencing at a point on the North line of said NW 1/4
of the SW 1/4 distant 1,043.58 feet East from the Northwest
corner thereof; thence Southerly parallel with the Westerly line
of University Avenue Northeast, also known as State Trunk Highway
Number 47, as the same is laid out and constructed a distance of
158 feet; thence East parallel with the North line of said NW 1/4
of the SW 1/4 a distance of 155 feet, more of less, to the said
Westerly line of University Avenue Northeast, also known as State
,-� Trunk Highway Number 47; thence North along the said Westerly
line of University Avenue, also known as State Trunk Highway
Number 47, a distance of 158 feet, more of less, to the North
line of said NW 1/4 of the SW 1/4; thence West along the North
line of said NW 1/4 of the SW 1/4 a distance of 155 feet, more or
less, to the point of beginning. Subject to the rights of the
public over the North 73 feet thereof for road purposes.
Expressly subject also to the rights of the public for a service
drive over the East 30 feet thereof.
Together with abutting streets vacated or to be vacated.
Lot 4, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 5.
Lot 2, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 6.
Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 8.
3. VACATION REOUEST, SAV #95-02, BY THE ROTTLUND COMPANY, INC.:
This vacation request will vacate a portion of the University
Avenue Service Road south of Mississippi Street and north of
Satellite Lane, and a portion of 3rd Street immediately north of
Satellite Lane. The vacation request will also vacate a number
of drainage and utility easements within the development area.
The Rottlund Company, Inc., is proposing this vacation request in
'� conjunction with preliminary plat and rezoning requests in order
- to construct a townhome project generally located south of
^ SPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION MEETINa. MARCH 29. 1995 PAaB 4
Mississippi Street, west of University Avenue, and north of
Satellite Lanee
The legal descriptions for the proposed street vacations are as
follows:
That part of existing public streets in Sylvan Hills Plat 5,
according to the plat thereof of record in Anoka County,
Minnesota, described as follows:
Lot 2, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 5, except the north 40.00 feet
thereof; together with
That part of 64 1/2 Avenue and of Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills
Plat 5, lying northerly and easterly of a line as described in
document recorded in Book 905, Page 427, Anoka County; together
with that portion of service drive as shown on Sylvan Hills Plat
5, which lies north of the easterly extension of the straight-
line portion of the south line of Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills
Plat 5;
Except that part of the foregoing which lies east of a line drawn
30 feet west from, and parallel to, the east line of said service
� drive, and north of a line drawn 135 feet south from, and
parallel to, the easterly extension of the north line of said Lot
2, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 5.
Al1 of 3rd Street as dedicated on the plat of Sylvan Hills Plat
5, Anoka County, Minnesota, lying easterly of the east line of
Lot 4, Block 1, said Sylvan Hills Plat 5, and westerly of the
west line of Lot 1, Block 1, said Sylvan Hills Plat 5, and
northerly of the following described line:
Commencing at the northeast corner of said Lot 4, Block 1; thence
on an assumed bearing of South 00 degrees 13' 20" West, a
distance of 123.00 feet, along the east line of said Lot 4;
thence distance of 31.43 feet, along a tangential curve, concave
to the northwest, said curve having a central angle of 89 degrees
56' 40°and a radius of 20.02 feet, to the actual point of
beginning of the line being described; thence North 80 degrees
17' 40" East and a distance of 101.52 feet, being a point on the
south line of Lot 1, Block l, Sylvan Hills Plat 5, and said line
there terminating.
The legal descriptions for the proposed easement vacations are as
follows:
A ten foot drainage and utility easement lying along the westerly
lot line of Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 6.
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BPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION 1�EETINa MARCH 29. 1995 PAGS 5
A ten foot drainage and utility easement lying along the
southerly lot line of Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 60
A ten foot drainage and utility easement lying along the
easterly, northerly, and westerly lot lines of Lot 2, Block 1,
Sylvan Hills Plat 6.
A six foot drainage and utility easement lying along the westerly
and northerly lot lines of Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 8.
A ten foot drainage and utility easement located in the southwest
corner of Lot 1, Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 7.
A ten foot NSP easement per pocument #285903 lying over Lot 1,
Block 1, Sylvan Hills Plat 8 and over Lot 2, Block 1, Sylvan
Hills Plat 6.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Sielaff, to waive the
reading of the public hearing notice and to open the public
hearing.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE� ALL VOTINa AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEAMAN DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED AND THE PIIBLIC HEARIN(� OPEN AT 7s38 P.M.
Mr. Stutz, executive vice president of Rottlund Company,
introduced the development team members at the meeting including
Don Jensen, project manager; Paul Danielson, project engineer;
Tom Harrington, project and landscape architect; and Tim Whitten,
project architect. Tom and Paul are a part of BRW, Inc.
Mr. Stutz stated Rottlund began its journey with the City during
the summer of 1994 with the initial site tour of the project
area. A long period of time elapsed since the initial
discussion. Their first formal contact with the City began in
September 1994 when they received a request for proposal in which
they were asked to submit a development proposal to meet the
needs and goals that the City had identified for this site. This
included housing needs and what types of land uses and what type
of product could occur on the development site.
Mr. Stutz stated, in October 1994, Rottlund submitted a
development proposal to the City along with other developers and
were subsequently selected as the developer to go forward on the
basis of an exclusive negotiations agreement that was entered
into between the Housing and Redevelopment Authority (HRA) and
the Rottlund Company. That agreement was entered into in January
1995 which in effect gives Rottlund from that time through July
to negotiate a final development agreement and obtain the
necessary development approvals to go forth with the development.
BPECIAL PLANNINa COMMIS�ION MEBTINa. MARCH 29. 1995 PAQE 6
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Mr. Stutz stated the site is unique in ternas of some the
challenges it presents. The City has some fairly specific design
guidelines and housing needs that they perceive that the proposal
needs to meet. Another challenge is dealing with the surrounding
land uses and changing the character of the site.
Mr. Stutz introduced Mr. Whitten who has worked with Rottlund for
a number of years to discuss the site plan proposal.
Mr. Whitten stated a number of site plans had been proposed. The
first site plan, alternative "A", is a version of what was
presented with the original RFP. They have made some changes and
reshaped the plan based on discussions with staff. The site is
composed of 14 acres and the plan proposes 172 units. In
relationship to the existing neighborhoods, there is single
family homes and a church to the south of the site and industrial
space to the west. In the overall concept, they are trying to
achieve a neighborhood with a strong image but also compatible
with the existing community. They also wanted flexibility with
the marketplace by creating a variety of product. In looking at
the architectural theme they have tried to have a common thread
throughout each of the products and other elements of the site to
create a sense of unity and have recommended the use of common
� materials and colors. Another goal of the Rottlund Company was
_ to create a successful long term project and, finally, to respond
to the design guidelines set forth by the City.
Mr. Whitten stated, in alternative "A", there are four areas of
clusters of housing. The first is a condominium cluster located
closest to the intersection of University Avenue and Mississippi
Street made up of two buildings with 24 units in each building.
The buildings would be four stories with underground parking.
These are targeted for the senior market. The next is two
clusters of townhomes totalling 96 units or 48 units in each
cluster. Each of the six buildings would have 16 units each.
Next would be cottages along the existing single family homes.
There would 28 detached townhomes, each single units with one
level, targeted toward empty nesters.
Mr. Whitten stated in the overall concept they wanted to create a
sense of entrance. They looked at putting the main entrance off
Mississippi Street and, to keep the sense of neighborhood, to be
able to come into the entrance and be able to go to each of the
clusters without having to travel through one neighborhood in
order to get to the other. This allows that to happen. Another
important item is that each cluster have their own identity.
Mr. Whitten stated they looked at the position of each of the
different clusters. The tallest buildings with the most density
�, are in the area of the most impact or the intersection, the
townhomes next, and then the single family along the existing
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SPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION M�BTINa. MARCH 29, 1995 PAaE 7
single family creating an edge for the project to, in a sense,
protect the rest of the development. The location of the
condominiums along the intersection creates a public space plaza
area which introduces the public to the development. The
condominium buildings give a sense that the public is moving from
one space to another, which then changes again in the townhome
neighborhood. A more central area of the development has
detention ponds and trails connecting to the north to Mississippi
Street and to the south to Satellite.
Mr. Whitten stated they are proposing extensive berms along the
edge of the site to protect and buffer the residents of the
neighborhood and to act as a soft, comfortable edge to the
community. They are proposing earth berms with stone columns,
ornamental fencing and heavy landscaping. They tried to take
materials, colors and textures in the architecture and thread it
throughout the neighborhood.
Mr. Whitten reviewed the architecture. The condominium buildings
are targeted toward seniors. The buildings are four stories with
24 units per building. Each unit is proposed to have 1200 square
feet with two bedrooms and two baths. The price is estimated to
be approximately $80,000-$100,000. The buildings are proposed to
have underground parking for which they are allowing more than
one stall per unit. There is a common area on the main floor
with an elevator. They tried to develop something that is as
unlike apartments as is possible. There are only six units per
floor, short single loaded corridors, and 2/3 of the units will
be corner units with windows on two sides. Each unit will have
an optional fireplace and will include a laundry. With only 24
units using the parking garage, that should help with security.
The units would be sprinklered. The building is proposed to have
a concrete stone-like base on the exterior, brick on the main
level, and vinyl siding on the upper floors.
Mr. Whitten stated the townhomes are targeted for young
professionals. There are six 16-unit buildings on the site which
are three stories tall. The garage and utility space is on the
main floor, the living space on the second level, and the
bedrooms on the upper level. The entry is at the half level to
get to the living space and the deck is at the level of the
living space. They are proposing 24 units with two-car garages
and 72 units with single-car garages. The "A" units are proposed
to have 1480 square feet and the "B" units 1240 square feet.
These would be priced at approximately $90,000-$105,000. These
buildings are proposed to be sprinklered. The key element here
is density. With these buildings, there can be 16-18 units per
acre and still have a product with a private entrance and private
garage. None of the units are stacked on top of each other. The
proposed exterior is to have brick accents at the base and vinyl
lap siding on the upper floors. The architectural style is that
BPECIAL PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETINa. MARCH 29. 1995 PAGE 8
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of a Boston row house and very similar to the design guidelines.
There was an issue of light into these units. Rottlund has a
sister product which is the villas. The villas are two-story but
are also interior back-to-back living units. Because these units
have the living space above the garage, there is an opportunity
for more glass than in the villas. There is also the opportunity
for a large transom window at the entry which is visible into the
living space. There is more opportunity for glass and a higher
potential than that required by code. He is confident in the
success of this product because they have had success with the
villas and this design has some distinct advantages.
Mr. Whitten stated the cottages are one-level, single detached
townhomes targeted toward empty nesters. They are proposing-28
of these units. They are also planning to introduce a 1 1/2
story plan to go along with these still with the master bedroom
on the main floor but offering some expansion space. Al1 have
two-car garages. There are four basic floor plans varying in
size from 1320 square feet to 1480 square feet and with plans for
two or three bedrooms. The price would range between $130,000-
$160,000. With this particular site plan, they have the product
situated at a 30-degree angle to the street which allows them to
provide a more private entry and a more private patio space. It
,� also allows them to do more with the streetscape in relation to
the garages and offers more flexibility. While these are single
family townhomes, there is a variety with four different floor
plans, different orientation to the street, and three color
pallets. These units are all handicap adaptable. These units
would also have accents of brick with lap siding or a cedar
shake-look siding.
Mr. Whitten stated that overall the materials would have some
stone and brick accents throughout, the same color roofing. The
colors of the condominium buildings would be the same but
different from the siding material of the townhomes while still
complementing. The color pallet for the cottages would also
complement the other buildings. They are trying to find a
variety but also a common thread. He felt there was a lot of
strength in the design and this helps to create pride in
ownership of the home and a sense of neighborhoode
Mr. Whitten reviewed another site plan, alternate "B", which
proposes 28 cluster houses. The site plan is similar to "A", but
rather than having the townhome buildings along Mississippi
Street to the west of the site, they are proposing 28 cluster
houses. They needed to take seriously the issue of densityo
These cluster houses are two story which allows a smaller
footprint. The market for these homes would be young
professionals. The homes would have a two-car garage and would
� be built on grade. There would be about 11 feet of space between
structures. The units would have between 1300 and 1600 square
^ BPECIAL PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETINa. MARCH 29, 1995 PAGE 9
feet. The price range would be $110,000-$140,000. They are
proposing three plans and looking at a 1 1/2 story plan to also
satisfy the transitional buyer. The master bedroom can be on the
main floor. These homes take advantage of the space above the
garages which allows them to increase the number of bedrooms or
provide bonus space which could take the place of a family room.
The colors and materials would be similar to that of the
cottages. The benefit to this particular plan is that it negates
the need for a secondary access onto Mississippi Street and is
more flexible in the fact that there is another product mixed
into the marketplace. The better the mix the better the formula
for success. This also more flexible to the issue of the
intersection. Because these are single family houses, it allows
for adapting to the roadway.
Mr. Whitten stated there would be discussion about the
intersection on Mississippi Street. It is critical that the
intersection of 3rd Street and Mississippi Street is located
approximately where proposed. This roadway connects Mississippi
Street with Satellite Lane and functions very well in the
proposed location.
Mr. Whitten stated another issue that is important to the success
,� of this project is the interior park. The intent is to have a
mix of vehicular traffic and pedestrian traffic.
Mr. Stutz stated the intent of the Rottlund Company is to give an
overview of the development. They are prepared to answer any
questions.
Ms. Dacy stated the proposed name of this development is
Stonegate. The purpose of the public hearing is for the Planning
Commission to consider a rezoning for the property from C-3,
General Shopping Center, and R-3, Multiple Family Dwelling, to S-
2, Redevelopment District. The S-2 is acting as a PUD approach.
The site plan approved by the City Council will act as a guide
for the layout. The second purpose of the public hearing is to
consider a plat request. The third purpose is to vacate the
frontage road along University Avenue as well as the existing
drainage and utility easements. The frontage road extends south
of Mississippi Street to Satellite Lane.
Ms. Dacy stated the purpose of tonight�s review is to review the
plans in general and to take comments from the public. This is
the first time that the public has had the opportunity to review
the proposed plans. The Commission is asked to focus its
attention on the following elementsa
a. Location of the 3rd Street and Mississippi Street
^ intersection
^ BPECIAL PLANNINQ COMMI88ION ME�TIN�. MARCH 29. 1995 PAaE 10
b.
c.
d.
e.
Architecture
Housing products; 16 unit buildings versus two-story
townhomes
Site design
Buffers
Ms. Dacy stated at the next meeting the Planning Commission could
address with some of the other detailse
Ms. Dacy stated alternative "A" has 172 proposed units made up of
three housing types. Alternative "B" has 152 units with four
housing types - senior condominiums, 16-unit townhouse, two-story
detached townhome, and one-story empty nester. Both plans
propose the 3rd Street intersection just to the end of the
existing median. The intersection is moved 120 feet to the east
of the present location. In the first plan and in response to
concerns from the fire department, Rottlund is proposing a right-
in and right-out at the driveway location that lines up with 2nd
Street on Mississippi Street.
^ Ms. Dacy stated, in considering the 3rd Street intersection,
staff has proposed the "C" options which would have the 3rd
Street connection opposite 2nd Street at Mississippi Street.
Staff has talked about future traffic control at this
intersection. There has also been discussion about a combined
access into the RAO manufacturing facility south of this parcel.
Apparently, trucks must use Mississippi Street to back into this
facility. There has also been discussion to provide better left
turn movement into the development with more room on Mississippi
Street for stacking vehicles turning into the developmente
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Ms. Dacy stated the cleveloper is concerned about this option
because of sharing the major entrance with an industrial use, and
further, it is not central to the site in providing access to the
housing products. Finally, it interferes with the east/west open
space system.
Ms. Dacy stated Anoka County told staff they would prefer the
intersection be left where it is today. They would entertain
looking at plans to move the intersection to the west. However,
we have not asked Anoka County to provide written comments at
this point as the developer wants to work with the Holly Center
to maintain the intersection at its current location or within
35-40 feet east of the existing location. Ms. Dacy provided
copies of a drawing showing the intersection plan if the
intersection were shifted 40 feet to the east. The access to the
development would line up with the access to the Holly Shopping
Center. This creates a better operational plan for the parking
� BPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION ME�TINa. MARCB 29, 1995 PAaS 11
at the Holly Center. Also distributed was copies of
correspondence from the owner of the property supporting a
solution along these lines.
Ms. Dacy stated the direction for the Planning Commission is that
the connection from Mississippi Street to Satellite Lane has been
a concern from the neighborhood to the south as well as from the
neighborhood to the north. The Commission should hear from the
public which set of alternatives they feel is more appropriate.
Staff is not asking the Commission to pick a specific option, but
to provide general direction for the option the Commission would
like staff to pursue.
Ms. Dacy stated the second issue is the architecture. In
general, the architecture meets the goals of the design
guidelines but there are a few things staff wants to bring to the
Commission's attention. Because of past history in using brick,
we think using more brick in the design would be more
appropriate. There are four specific areas which staff has
outlined in the report. Also, the architects mentioned they are
trying to bring in colors and materials already existing in the
intersection to complement each other. Another feature is the
stone being proposed. Staff did not have an opportunity to
�, discuss this material in detail with the developer. Staff's
understanding is that the stone is a stone-like product used in
other developments with apparent success. As part of the
discussion of the architecture, we will talk about the brick and
the use of the stone-like material.
Ms. Dacy stated the third issue is the housing units. There has
been concern about the 16-unit buildings having adequate light,
adequate open space, and the long term impact on the value of the
units. The developer responded with the two-story cletached
townhome with a two-car garage proposed to be located on the
northwest part of the site. The advantage is that this does
provide a good site design and flexibility for the location of
the intersection. Because of the decreased density and the
higher value of the units, in terms of the overall economic
impact, there is no net loss. The direction staff is requesting
is the housing type preferred in the northwest part of the site.
Staff likes this proposal because of the design flexibility and
because of the intersection, and this additional type of housing
product adds to the mix and the appeal for the developer.
Ms. Dacy stated the fourth issue is the site design. The
guidelines talked about the appropriate setbacks. The setback to
the 16-unit building alonq Satellite Lane should have at least 20
feet between the building and the lot line. Staff is also
suggesting that there be additional landscaping along the north
� side of Satellite Lane. The developer has proposed a number of
floor plans for the two-story detached townhomes. Using the
� SPECIAL PLANNING COMMI88ION MEBTINa. MARCH 29, 1995 PAGE 12
guidelines, additional trees are needed for both plans. The
sidewalk proposed to 3rd Street plus the open spaces from the
intersection east/west through the development provide provides
good pedestrian/bikeway connections.
Ms. Dacy stated the fifth issue is the buffers. How does the
site interact with the adjacent roadways and the neighborhood?
The first issue the developer is proposing along University
Avenue is stone-like columns with a vinyl chain link fence
accented with berms and landscaping. Staff would like to suggest
eliminating the use of chain link in the fence. The City has
contacted MnDOT to propose an alternative along University
Avenue. Along Mississippi Street, the buffer is similar except
there is an alternating scheme with arborvitae, columns and
berms. The height of that buffer is 8 feet. Along the lot line
with RAO, a six-foot screening fence is proposed. Staff would
like comments regarding the buffers and whether the Commission
concurs to eliminate the chain link fence and pursue other
alternatives along University Avenue.
Ms. Dacy stated, at the end of the public hearing, she would like
to discuss the next meeting. Changes have occurred in the
scheduling for the April 19 Planning Commission meeting. Staff
�-.� will suggest a special meeting for the end of April and the dates
for this can be discussed at the end of the meeting.
Mr. Newman asked Ms. Dacy to explain the difference between
alternatives C and C1.
Ms. Dacy stated alternative C shows a roadway to the west of the
site. The developer points out that this is not a good access
into the development. Alternative C1 shows the 3rd Street access
at Mississippi Street and ending at Satellite Lane. The
developer's concern with this option is that it interrupts the
east/west flow of the open space system.
Mr. Newman asked Ms. Dacy to explain the "D" options.
Ms. Dacy stated option D1 shows the intersection in the same
location, option D2 shows the intersection located 35 feet to the
east, and option D3 shows the intersection located 40 feet to the
east.
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Modig, to receive into
the public record the letter dated March 29, 1995, from Mr.
William Munson, Heartland Realty Investors, Inc., regarding the
location of the intersection.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTINC� AYE, CHAIRPERBON NEWMAN DECLARED
�"'� THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
BP�CIAL PLANNING COMMI88ION MEBTINa. MARCB 29. 1995 PAaE 13
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Mr. Kondrick stated buffers are proposed along Mississippi
Street, University Avenue, and the RAO property. He asked the
distance from the curb to the building and the type of buffer to
be constructed to provide sight and sound barriers.
Mr. Jensen stated RAO has a 10-foot landscaped buffer to their
drive lane which is approximately 25 feet wide with another 25
feet to the structure. It is approximately 55 feet to the
structure. There are advantages and disadvantages depending on
the plan. Plan A is a proposed three-story building with the
living area above. Plan B is a lower profile building and less
view of the industrial facility to the west. To the south, there
is approximately 20-25 feet to the common property line of the
RAO facility and they have approximately 20-25 feet to their
parking lot which is approximately 5 feet above the proposed
grades. To Mississippi Street, we have a relationship where we
have about 60 feet to the property line and the amount of public
space to the curb areas will fluctuate from west to east along
the driveway line. There is approximately 35 feet from the
property line to the condominium building and the public walkway
space in that location.
Mr. Jensen stated the agenda packet should have included an
�..� elevation section prepared on the University Avenue location
which highlighted a dimension of 50 feet from the property line
to the MnDOT portion of University Avenue where the frontage road
currently exists. That is taken up in open space and buffering.
Mr. Kondrick asked if there was going to be a berm along both
University Avenue and Mississippi Street.
Mr. Jensen stated the berm may be 3-4 feet high with plant
material to create a visual screen along University Avenue. The
same will be true along Mississippi Street. Here the street is
higher than the project site. A six-foot high fence or column
with an arborvitae hedge plus two-foot drop when coming into the
site will create what is in effect an eight-foot barrier. From
the street, it will look to be five to six feet tall.
Mr. Sielaff asked if option D3 is proposing that the
entrance/exit to the shopping center will be aligned with the
entrance/exit to 3rd Street.
Ms. Dacy stated yes. The intersections would line up from the
Holly Shopping Center to the development.
Mr. Newman referred to the staff report, page 4, the last
paragraph and asked if this was saying that, while the overall
dollar value would be less, the taxes generated would be the same
� because of the higher value for the property.
SPECIAL PLANNING CONIIyiIBBION MEETING. MARCH 29, 1995 PAGE 14
�
Ms. Dacy stated this was correct.
Mr. Newman stated the staff report raised concern about a brick-
like material.
Mr. Stutz stated this is a stone-like material which is cast in
concrete with a form mold. It is consistent concrete but there
is a formline put inside. We come back and stain that material
so it looks no different than stone. The Mall of America has
this application as do others. Rottlund has used the product now
for over a year with good experience. For the most part, people
cannot tell the difference. It feels and looks just like the
real thing. In terms of longevity, it is a better material. The
cost is pretty much the same. This is being proposed for the
columns on the perimeter and also for the base structure for the
condominium buildings where the parking garage would have a
stone-look base. The brick used will be real brick.
Mr. Newman asked if the cluster homes have "0" lot lines.
Mr. Stutz stated they have looked at "0" lot lines, but it is
their feeling from the standpoint that you are going to have roof
overhangs with soffits and fireplaces and to have access along
(,.-.� that side for future maintenance, they feel it is appropriate to
have that setback. There is no reason why it could not be slid
to one side. It provides an easement to the association for all
propertye
Mr. Newman stated the e�cteriors are common property and owners
will want to add personal touches such as flowers. This would
allow them to go up to the next home.
Mr. Stutz stated they have looked at a the "0'� lot line, they
have looked at a 4-5 foot setback and have looked at platting as
an actual townhome so each structure would be within the
structure of the townhouse lot.
Mr. Newman asked their response to staff's suggestion to
incorporate a porch.
Mr. Whitten stated in the design of the cottages it acts and
works as a"0" lot line where one side is solid and the other
side is open. That area is emphasized for open space with a
patio area. There is an opportunity for a porch off the rear.
There is also an opportunity for an "L" shaped area in the back
to provide a porch.
Mr. Newman asked if there was a porch in the front.
� Mr. Whitten stated they are looking to create a variety in the
front. One design actually shows a porch on the front that
�
�,
BPECIAL PLANNING COI+�lI88ION MEBTIN�. MARCH 29. 1995 PAGE 15
extends 1/2 way down the garage and is part of the exterior of
the building. He would not run it all the way to the front of
the dwelling but he would incorporate. On the units with a side
entrance, there is an opportunity to do some plantings. They can
incorporate some front porchese
Ms. Dacy stated the reason for additional accent on the front is
that we had talked about the appearance of the garage from the
street. This additional feature would offset the "garage heavy"
appearancea
Mr. Whitten stated they are still working out where the
intersection will be located. There is an opportunity to create
some variety with the side entrance to the garage as well as some
dormerse
Mr. Newman stated one of his concerns is the massiveness of the
16-unit buildings.
Mr. Whitten stated they have a sister product called the villa
townhomes. They also have a project in Plymouth with 16-unit
buildings that are basically the same mass and comparable in
scale. The elevations do not do them justice. They have
dormers, garages that project forward, and recessed entries.
There are a number of different things going on to break it up.
They may be other things going on where there may be able to
shift the building to break it up. The only way to offer a
smaller building is to lose units. They can pursue an 8 unit
building but they will lose units. The mix of products was to
offer a high density and a lower density product. This proposal
allows them to do that.
Mr. Newman stated, going down 85th, he passes the villas with
eight to a building. He looks at the size of that and envisions
iooking at twice as many units. That causes him concern.
Despite efforts to break it up, these will still be big
buildings.
Mr. Whitten stated he knew these buildings would not be twice as
big. These are narrow and taller. The buildings you describe
contain units that are 32 foot and 26 foot wide. We are talking
about 24 feet and 20 feet wide units. These will not be twice as
long. Here we are looking at three buildings together. That
location has five buildings together. Another reason to cluster
these buildings in two groups of 48 is to break it up.
Mr. Newman asked about the units with single car garages. Will
the profile of buyer that the developer is dealing with buy a
single or double garage?
BPECIAL PLANNINQ CO1�iI88ION MEETINa, MARCH 29. 1995 PAaE 16
�
Mr. Stutz stated the target market is singles. 70� are single.
While this is a different building, it is the same type of
market. A single car garage is generally bought by a single
person and the end units by couples. The product has two
bedrooms which does limit the number of families with children.
It is advantageous to have a specific market rather than a mix of
all types of buyers.
Mr. Newman stated his first experience was with a similar type of
approach with a single car garage. When he came in at night,
almost every car is in the driveway. They needed additional
parkingo
Mr. Stutz stated he had a single car garage townhome. He had to
use the garage for storage and that is why he parked outside.
These garages are built deeper so there is storage and have
generous areas to the side for storage to allow people to park
their car in the garage. In single family homes with a three-car
garage, one stall is often for storage. This space answers that
question and makes considerable difference.
Ms. Dacy stated the 16-unit buildings are proposed for the
southeast corner of the development. These buildings are on the
� edge of the development consistent with the buildings on that
side in terms of size, mass and density. It seems to be a better
complement to the Target and municipal buildings. This seemed to
be a good transition from University Avenue into the
neighborhood.
Mr. Saba stated he had a concern on the large units and parkinge
This is still looking at a profile in the eastern part of the
development with those three buildings. He sees potential
gridlock trying to get in and out of that area. There is not
much space to back out or move around. There will be cars parked
in the driveway and offside parking area. There is not much
space to turn around and maneuver. With the single family homes,
new construction would not allow a single car garage but it is
included here. He is concerned about what it will look like when
it is full. Single people don't always have only one car. They
sometimes have boats or a sport vehicle.
Mr. Sielaff asked if Satellite Lane would still have an exit onto
University Avenue.
Mr. Kondrick asked the width of the streets throughout the
development as compared to a neighborhood.
Ms. Dacy stated the street would be 27 feet wide in the cottage
area measuring curb to curb. In the area of the towntiouses, the
,� width is also 27 feet. The drive between the buildings is 22
feet. This is consistent with other neighborhoods for private
BPECIAL PLANNINd COMMI88ION MEETINa, MARCH 29, 1995 PAaE 17
�.
drives. In some cases, this exceeds the standards. 3rd Street
is a public street and will be 32 feet.
Ms. Modig stated she has a relative living in the townhouse
development at Edinburgh in Brooklyn Park. Are those street and
driveway widths consistent with this?
Mr. 5tutz stated he thought they were narrower than what is being
proposed here.
Ms. Modig stated there is not much trouble with traffic movement
in that development.
Ms. Dacy stated there will be no parking on one side of the
street because of the fire requirements. They are satisfied with
the width as proposed.
Mr. Oquist stated there is an issue with 3rd Street. Before we
can move on with the plan, we must know what we are going to do
with it. The other discussions are rather irrelevant until we
decide where 3rd Street will be. Some of the alternative wipe
out a whole row of buildings. He does not understand the issue
with the access to RAO. Why was this deemed necessary?
�� Ms. Dacy stated 'staff raised the option to move 3rd Street west
next to RAO. There was concern for it being the farthest away
from University Avenue. The engineer wanted the intersection as
far as away as possible to maximize the distance. RAO does on
occasion have their trucks use Mississippi Street to back into
their loading docks. RAO contacted the developer and stated they
were thinking about reconfiguring their parking lot. It is good
engineering practice to have one access that is shared rather
than have two separate accesses.
Mr. Oquist asked what kind of effect would this have on this area
with the big trucks. That becomes something obvious. He can
appreciate that they want to get away from University Avenue and
it makes sense, but when you do that it makes the whole thing
somewhat captive. It no longer has the feeling of openness. You
have a block of 14 acres all contained to the east with only one
side road. T�hat effect does that have on the serviceability of
the property?
Ms. Dacy stated that is a consequence of moving the road to the
west.
Mr. Kondrick asked if RAO has offered an opinion as to how they
feel their property could be best accessed.
� Ms. Dacy stated staff have not heard directly from their
representative. They c�pn�actec�.Mr. Jensen and talked about the
�
%�
BPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION MEETINa. MARCH 29, 1995 PAGE 18
possibility of rearranging the parking lot and the access drive.
The concept of sharing an access has not been discussed with
them. She brought the idea to the Commission first for a
recommendation.
Mr. Sielaff asked if the housing types were an idea from the
consultants or from the Council or HRAe
Ms. Dacy stated at the Council and HRA level it was clear that
they wanted senior condominiums. During the review process, it
became clear that there were two strong markets - the empty
nester and the young single professional. The market has created
a life cycle opportunity to the products and having four products
adds to that choice.
Mr. Sielaff asked if this was based on need.
Ms. Dacy stated a market study was done four years ago and the
developer is also on top of the market. They are confident that
the market is there.
Mr. Sielaff asked if, with this mix of housing type, can one
expect to families with children to occupy these units,
Mr. Stutz stated there is nothing to exclude children. There
will be a market toward empty nesters and young couples. Given
the size of the lot, it perhaps will not be as attractive to
families with children. The product price wise will be at a
range that is very comparable to single family homes. This is
intended for those people looking for no maintenance or an
alternative to single family homes.
Mr. Sielaff stated that there would likely not be that many
families with children.
Mr. Stutz stated that would be their expectation.
Mr. Oquist asked, from the standpoint of service, would the City
only be expected to service 3rd Street and the association
service the others.
Ms. Dacy stated yes.
Mr. Oquist raised the concern of snow removal. In looking at the
property in the southeast corner where there are large buildings
and considering there are years when a lot of snow removal is
needed, what do you do with the snow?
Mr. Stutz stated snow may have to be trucked out. The detention
�, basin could be used for some snow storage. If you get a heavy
snowfall, there may have to be some trucking snow off site.
� SPECIAL PLANNINd COMMI88ION MEETINa, MARCS 29� 1995 PAaE 19
Mr. Oquist asked if there are trees planted in the northeast area
of the development.
Mr. Stutz stated yes. This is not final. They are looking for
public input. This a public area that turns into a private area
farther into the development. This area is intended to be a
public area.
Mr. Oquist asked if the ponds were holding ponds that during the
summer may be dry.
Mr. Whitten stated they are proposing a pond on the east side
which would be permanently fenced although it does not need to be
fenced. The pond to the west is strictly detention and it could
be dry at times.
Mr. Oquist stated there should be some kind of barrier around the
pond on the east side.
Mr. Newman stated this would depend on the slope.
Mr. Saba asked what type of path is planned for the open area.
� Mr. Stutz stated the path would be asphalt. They are suggesting
, the path be 6 feet wide.
Ms. Dacy stated the standards are 8 feet.
Mr. Stutz stated they are trying to create density and keep the
impervious surface to a minimum. They would rather have more
narrow and fewer wide trailsa
Mr. Oquist stated there had been concern expressed about the
exterior. Has this been addressed?
Ms. Dacy stated there was concern on the brick and that there be
more of it. In the report, they had some specific ideas of
options on the unit types. They are not proposing 100� brick but
recommend adding some. The commission talked about the design
guidelines. The discussion was that the design of the unit should
dictate the materialse
Mr. Saba asked for a description of the lighting for the proposed
plan.
Mr. Stutz stated the plans contain symbols regarding the types of
lighting proposed throughout the development. NSP has increased
their variety of fixture and posts available to the public. The
associations contract with NSP for the light fixtures. Proposed
�"'1 is down cast lighting at the intersections, ponds, condominium
� building turnarounds, and garages. On the pedestrian system,
^ BPECIAL PLANNING COMMISBION MEETINa. MARCH 29, 1995 PAdE 20
they are recommending 10-12 similar lights on shorter poles.
These are very economical for the homeowners association to
replace if damagede
Mr. Kondrick asked if the electrical service would be above or
below ground.
Mr. Whitten stated the development would have below ground
utilities.
Mr. Kondrick asked, in terms of covenants and restrictions for
the property owners, must these units be owner occupied.
Mr. Whitten stated there is nothing in the covenants that can
preclude or restrict an owner from renting. They have found that
the vast majority of owners occupy the units they own.
Mr. Newman asked for comments from the audience.
Ms. Olivia Ritchison stated she represents a tenants group who is
being forced to move out. It is her understanding that the City
of Fridley is a part of a coalition with other cities and, for
the past two years, the City has been chastising the other cities
,-� for not meeting requirements for low income families. Here the
_ City is doing the same thing. 72 units are being demolished and
the tenants consist of low income minorities.
Mr. Newman stated the Planning Commission did not make the
decision. That decision was made by the City Council and HRA.
The role of the Planning Commission is limited to look at the
design of the plan and to provide comments on that plan. This
Commission has no authority to make a recommendation to the City
Council on that issue.
Ms. Richardson stated the demolition is to make room for empty
nesters and young professionals with no regard for the families
that live on Satellite Lane. At their first meeting in February,
the City promised this would be an easy transition. They
understand they must move and that this will be done regardless.
Their main issue is with the relocation benefits. There is no
cooperation whatsoever. In all fairness, she must congratulate
Ms. Dacy for making one offer to one tenant for $1,300 which is
the largest settlement. She has a copy of the paperwork so that
all can see that the amount is there. This is one out of 45
tenants that live in three complexes. All others get $0. We are
talking about low income, minority groups who do not have the
money to move out, who were promised relocation assistance and
who are getting nothing. That is why they are at the meeting.
She understands the Commission has no authority but it is
'", discrimination. They want to be treated with fairness and with
-- prejudice.
�
�"�
BPECIAL PLANNINa CON�lISBION MEETINa. MARCH 29, 1995 PAaE 21
Mr. Gary Wellner stated he owns the property adjacent to the
development and he has a concern with the drainage problems that
may develop. Ms. Dacy is aware of his concerns. He has a
concern about the buffer to the west. He hopes they would not
get into fences. He owns a twinhome there and hopes they could
do something that would be nicer. He is willing to work with the
developer to do that. However, the drainage does create
problems. In reference to the street, having 3rd Street to the
east makes a great deal of sense. Moving the street to the west
adjacent to RAO makes little or no sense and he would encourage
them not to do that. Plan B is an excellent plan and superior to
the first plan he saw. This will enhance the City of Fridley,
and he would appreciate moving ahead readily.
Mr. Kondrick asked Mr. Wellner what type of buffer, other than
fencing, would he prefer to separate the properties.
Mr. wellner stated he was not sure separation was necessary.
There are some beautiful oak trees there which he would like to
see preserved. He would be willing to do some grading to make
his property compatible with their elevations. RAO sits high and
he did not know what the developer plans to do with that. He is
willing to do what will make this look like a community rather
than a fenced in, commercial looking area. While he cannot speak
for the person who owns the single family home, he is sure there
is a drainage concern for them as well.
Mr. Wellner stated there is a height problem. These things must
be addressed from the start. He has owned his property for 10
years with no problems. If someone comes in there and grades
without consideration, he can then have water in the basement.
He wants to avoid this. If his property is five feet above the
grade proposed for the development, it is not good use of that
and perhaps they can do something that will be better situation
for both. He would like to see his yard flow into their yard.
He wanted to bring this up during the preliminary stage. He
thinks Plan B is an excellent plan.
Ms. Dacy stated the proposed fence stops along the western most
side above halfway to the street. The drainage plan has been
submitted, and the comments on the plan are in the staff report.
Staff are concerned about the amount of flow going to the south
and the Engineering Department has requested a modification in
the proposed plan. Staff will meet with the developer to firm up
the details. We are trying to get basic direction about the road
because this will drive the actual plan. They will address
specific concerns to incorporate those into the development.
Mr. Rathke stated he liked Plan A better. He first heard about
,r"� the plan in January. The logistics for having townhouses on
� Mississippi Street is to provide a blockage for the noise and the
�,
SPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION ME�TING. MARCH 29, 1995 PAa$ 22
aesthetics are much better. He thought a good point was made
about the street and that this needs to be ironed out. Also, the
senior condominiums were formerly planned differently in the
corner but he likes the change made.
Mr. Whitten stated these buildings were oriented along University
Avenue and Mississippi Street. By moving them, it allowed a
larger open space and allowed them to buffer some of the traffic
noise and impact to the condominium buildings by pulling them
back and landscaping the buffer area. The ends or the shortest
dimension is then closest to the street. As far as the fountain,
they had thought of introducing water at the corner of the plaza
to the park area to show what to expect. That area they are
leaving open for discussion at this time. Another reason to re-
orient these buildings was that turning them allowed people to
come in from a different orientation and be separated from cars.
Ms. Patricia Mims
nesters and young
wondering if this
this developmento
stated this development is targeted for empty
professionals and senior citizens. She was
idea is not for children to be targeted for
Mr. Stutz stated they are attempting to address the housing needs
,-� for the City and the market. There is a significant amount of
housing stock to accommodate families. This would accommodate
those who want something other than a single family home.
Mr. Newman stated 3/4 of the homes in the Fridley school district
do not have children. The concern of the City is to provide
housing so the senior citizens who want to stay in the City can
stay and free up single family homes that may be more suitable
for families.
Ms. Mims asked if the corner buildings were for seniors.
Mr. Newman stated the corner buildings are for seniors who want
to own condominiums. There will also be cottages.
Ms. Mims stated the 16-unit buildings target young professionals.
Mr. Newman stated these units would be more likely to have
younger buyersa
Ms. Mims stated the cottages are for either. So, basically, this
area is not for children.
Mr. PTewman stated that is not the specific target. If you look
at the cottages, they are two to three bedroom homes and there
may be families that want to live there. He can envision a
�"� single parent who may want to live there who does not want to
maintain the yard. If someone has children in high school or
SPECIAL PLANNINa COP�II88ION MESTING. MARCH 29. 1995 PAGE 23
,� --
college, they may want an alternative. The City Council needs to
generate a property value on this site to make it work which
requires high density.
Ms. Ritchison stated the City is building homes for senior
citizens, younq professionals, and basically couples with no
children. There is really no attraction for families. When
planning this, did you take into consideration families that
there now in the apartments and want to remain in the City?
These families have no choice and must now move out because
are no apartments to rent in the City.
are
there
Mr. Newman stated he did not know that he could answer that
question. This is a valid point. He would hope that every
resident can find a residence within the City. They have a lot
of other residences and homes in the City that are quite
economical and, by freeing up some of those homes, we will be
able to provide more housing opportunities. If you look at
starter homes, it is $90,000. Yet, there are a lot of good homes
in the City that sell for $60,000 to $70,000. If we can get
residents who live in those homes to move into this area and
thereby making their home available, we can provide affordable
homes to those people.
� Ms. Ritchison stated there is also the discrimination against
minorities and low income family. Many people cannot afford to
buy a home. What about the needs of those people? They pay
taxes in the City just like anyone elseo
�,
Mr. Newman stated that everything being said is correct. If you
look at the school, 1/2 of the students qualify as low income.
Fridley has a high proportion of low income compared to other
communities. We want to provide for low income families as well
as other people. One issue we have been wrestling with is how do
we renovate this area and, in doing so, maintain the quality and
appearance for an extended period of time. There will be some
people displaced and he hoped they would be able to find housing.
He did not think this was discrimination. There is a lot of
affordable housing in the City.
Ms. Ritchison stated she had received two lists from Ms. Dacy.
The first list did not accept Section 8 and on the other list
there was only one unit which was not until next year. Now they
have lists for housing in other cities because there are no
apartments left.
Mr. Newman stated, to try to clarify, the City does have a high
percentage of low income housing in the City. It is higher than
other cities. He thought the City was making an attempt to
provide housing for all buyers.
�
�
BPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION MESTINa MARCH 29. 1995 PAGE 24
Ms. Ritchison asked how they could make a statement like that
when you cannot provide relocation. 70 people are being asked to
move out. How can you make a statement for affordable housing
and not make funds available to relocate? These families do not
have the money to come up with $1,500 to $2,000 to get into
another apartment. And there are no apartments available in the
City. They are asked to move children out of the school
district. Was this taken into consideration when the planning
was taking place? The tenants did not know until January. Then
we were notified we had to move and the City will not provide
assistance in moving out.
Mr. Newman stated he did not know what is being done in
relocation. He does know there are Federal guidelines. He
appreciates the comments and concerns and he can sympathize, b.ut
he cannot answer the cluestions because this body is not involved
in thata
Ms. Ritchison asked if there was consideration for the effects
this would have on the families and on the neighborhood.
Mr. Newman stated the Planning Commission did not make the plans.
We set some basic design criteria and were asked to respond to a
plan as presented to us.
Mr. Ray Hong asked how many condominiwn associations will be
represented in this development and will their be a community
room. What type of heating and air conditioning will be in the
condominium buildings? He is concerned about the exchange of air
and noise between the units.
Mr. Stutz stated there would be three different associations who
would be responsible for their common areas and roadways. The
condominium buildings are not intended to have a large community
room. The size does not justify a large space. There are other
facilities in the immediate area for community type functions.
Mr. Whitten stated they are in the process of designing the
heating and air conditioning. It is their hope that the heating
and air conditioning will be on a per-unit basis. There will not
be central heating and air conditioning systems. They are
looking at a central water heater. All units will have their own
exhaust fans for the kitchens. All units would be independent
from each other.
Ms. Mims stated, when talking to Ms. Ritchison about relocation,
it was said that you do not have that information. As the City
Planning Commission when planning this project, did they think
about the people being moved out of approximately 80 units and
�"'� that there would be comparable housing in the Fridley area? Who
^ BPECIAL PLANNING CO1�II�I88ION MEETINa. MARCH 29, 1995 PAGE 25
would have those answers for us? If there another commission
that we could speak to for the answers you do not have?
Mr. Newman stated this is generally a staff function to be
handled at the staff level with the consultant that the City has
hired.
Ms. Dacy stated this was a joint decision between the HRA and
City Council to move forward with a redevelopment project
including the apartments. They did realize they would have to
relocate residents in those four buildings and also understood
they would have to comply with the requirements of the relocation
law as discussed. The City Council and HRA are public meetings
just as this. There is also a Councilmember representing this
area. Neighborhood meetings were held in February and the
Councilmember introduced the meeting and outlined what would go
on at the meeting. That person is elected so you may also
contact that person. The two bodies are the City Council and the
HRA who decided to pursue the project. Had she known the group
would be attending the meeting she would have provided that
information. However, they were asked to contact staff to get
information on when meetings would be held.
,-� Mr. Newman stated, regarding the apartments, the Planning
Commission received a direction from the HRA and City Councile
The Commission's only discussion was if we had a preference for a
10-acre site or a 14-acre site and to provide a sense to theme
The information being provided by the public is what we are here
fors
Ms. Mims stated it seems unusual that the City decided to provide
a list of apartments but there are no openings, willing to
provide fliers about moving trucks but no information on
financial assistance. Tenants received other information to help
them get out but no information to attend this meeting. Tenants
took it upon themselves to see exactly what �heir rights aree
She would appreciate receiving information on meetings, etc.
Mr. Wellner asked what the normal setback was for the rear yard.
Ms. Dacy stated 25 feet is the rear yard setback.
Mr. Wellner stated the site plan appears to have the structures
30 feet from the property line.
Ms. Dacy stated the distance is 30 feet from the property line on
the west side.
MOTION by Mr. Saba, seconded by Mr. Rondrick, to continue the
�""� public hearing to April 26, 1995.
�--�
SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINa. MARCH 29. 1995 PAaE 26
IIPON A VOICL VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPER80N NEWMAN DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
Mr. Newman informed the public that the public hearing would be
continued to further discuss this issue. The Commission will
continue to discuss aspects of the site plan. The developer will
then take these suggestions and incorporate them into the site
plan ancl come back. The Commission will at that time take final
actione
Mr. Newman stated the Commission has been asked to address five
issues which he would like to review at this time. He asked for
comments regarding the location of the 3rd Street and Mississippi
Street intersection.
Mr. Kondrick stated he would prefer alternative D with the aacess
across from the shopping center access. The owner of the
shopping center is willing to work with us. If we use D as an
approximate plan, it throws the drawings off. If the street is
located to the west, the distance from the condominium building
would be increased. There would be more open space but they will
lose some houses. The density will be changed.
,-� Mr. Whitten stated there would be a loss of two or three units in
doing thiso
Mr. Kondrick stated he would like to see the entrance to the
development line up with the Holly Center.
Mr. Whitten stated, if they continue all the way to the existing
entrance, they will lose more units. If they can line up within
40 feet, that is the best.
Mr. Oquist stated he did not see the significance of lining up.
Ms. Dacy stated the for the short term it improves the operation
of traffic coming out of Holly Center and it becomes a full
movement intersection. The long term impact is, if traffic
warrants, we have an aligned intersection for a signal. If
offset, it provides for a difficult traffic maneuver.
Mr. Sielaff thought the alignment was important and they need to
be aligned. He is in favor of splitting the difference and
moving the Holly entrance/exit overe
Ms. Modig and Mr. Saba concurred.
Mr. Oquist stated he did not care if this lined up, but he
thought having the entrance further to the east was better.
Mr. Newman asked for comments on the architecture.
,,� BPECIAL PLANNINa CONIIdlI88ION MEETINa. MARCH 29. 1995 PAa$ 27
Mr. Oquist stated he thought they had talked about a compromise
with more brick and wood. This is something they can work out.
He likes the design.
Mr. Kondrick asked if there was a difference in cost between
doing the brick forms or doing actual brick. If the forms looks
good on the columns, why not do the same thing on the houses? If
it cost effective, looks the same and easier to maintain, why can
it not apply to the houses?
Mr. Stutz stated there are two elements. One is the columns
which are cast in place as will be the base of the condominium
buildings. The form lines will look like flagstone. From the
concrete going up will be actual brick. This can be done to look
like brick, but it is easier to do stone because there can be a
duplication of prime lines. �rick is more difficult to do
because of the lines and is probably not any more cost effective.
Mr. Newman stated the general consensus is that we want to see
more brick. One concern he has is in the cluster homes. He saw
a slide of a two-car garage and could not see the house. He
would describe it as a two-car garage with an attached house. He
does not want the garages to take over the landscape. He liked
� the idea of more brick and the idea of porches. Looking at some
of the concepts presented, his recollection is that one has two
windows facing the street on the upper floor. He wants to make
sure there is a certain amount of glass there. The middle unit
only has one window and he concerned it will be dwarfed.
Mr. Whitten stated there are opportunities to do that and he
would be happy to incorporate that idea.
Ms. Modig stated, in the townhouses with the living space above
the garage, those have a tendency to be colder. Are the garages
going to be under the unit occupied by the garage?
Mr. Whitten stated yes. The owner of the garage will live above
that garage. They have worked out the issue of the cold with
insulation and sheet rock. This also reduces the noise of the
garage door opening. They also design the units so there is no
plumbing above the garage doore
Mr. Kondrick stated he thought the units should have two-car
garages. The City insists this be done with other new housing
and he feels this should be in the same way. People have
recreation vehicles, guests, and other reasons-to have a double
garagee
Mr. Whitten stated in Plan B, of the product that is not a
^ condominium, 80 would have a two-car garage and 26 would have a
single-car garage. There is quite � few more units with double
�
�iia1
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BPECIAL PLANNINa COMMI88ION M88TINQ. MARCH 29 1995 PAGE 28
garages. It is also an issue of density. They cannot achieve
the density with two-car garages. They are conscious of the fact
that people put other things in their garages and that is why
they added additional spacee
Mr. Sielaff asked if the association would have rules about
outside storage.
Mr. Whitten stated the association would control what happens in
the common arease
Mr. Kondrick asked if there would be fireplaces.
Mr. Whitten stated they are proposing gas fireplaces in every
unit.
Mr. Saba stated, at the last meeting with the block captains and
the police department, they talked about a new type of lighting
that is photo sensitive. Each house has a light that comes on at
night and stays on. It is much safer. This may be an option in
lieu of some of the street lights that do not light up individual
homes.
Mr. Kondrick stated they had at one time discussed an entrance
theme. Are the contractors aware of this discussion?
Mr. Whitten stated the development will be called Stonegate and
will have a series of columns repeated along Mississippi Street
and University Avenue and at the corner would be a wrought iron
railing. This detail will be developed by the next meeting.
Mr. Newman aslced for comments about the housing products.
The general consensus was in support of Plan B.
Mr. Sielaff stated he liked the idea of having life cycle
housing. He also liked the idea of having fewer townhouses and
more of the other types of housing.
Ms. Modig stated she liked B with the road moved over as
discussed. This will change the density. When the project was
first discussed, the density was proposed to be 75-100 units and
this is now up to about 150. This is nearly double the original
discussion. The economies for the development dictates where the
profit margin lies but she is concerned about this will be too
muche
Mr. Newman stated the density is set by the City Council and HRA
for the tax increment financing required.
� BPECIAL PLANNINa CO1wII�I8BION MEETINa. MARCH 29. 1995 PAaB 29
Ms. Modig stated she would not mind living in one of the units
but she is concerned about traffic, how it will impact the whole
corner and the traffic pattern, and she is not sure how it will
handle all that.
Ms. Dacy stated, because of the traffic concerns, they asked the
developer to do a traffic study. There will be a net decrease in
the traffic. This is an important factor. It is getting more
busy on Mississippi Street so we are attempting to be more
careful about placement of the intersection.
Mr. Kondrick atated he liked B because it was less dense. There
are too many cottages. He preferred less. He would like to
create more green space for all in the southwest part of the
development. He would like to see six to eight cottages on the
side facing Kasota. In the other area, there probably could also
be fewer units. These are very close together. He realizes the
economies of the development but he thought the overall beauty of
the area would be enhanced by a less dense program in the cottage
area and the two-story detached townhomes.
Mr. Oquist stated he
each of the units as
,..� with the row house in
, he thought this was a
liked B. He liked the idea of space between
opposed to the row effect. He has a problem
that they look like barracks. Otherwise,
nice looking plan.
Ms. Saba stated he liked B, but if they were going to add green
space, he would add it to the area along the northwest part of
the development. If two or three units were to be sacrificed for
the road, he would prefer to see three or four for the sake of
space for those building. He would also like to see the path 8
feet wide. With the mix of people walking, biking, and roller
blading, and having older people in the area, he would like to
see a wider path. He would like to see the green space in the
center extend further to the west. The view on ICasota is
probably okay but he is concerned about the northwest portion.
He would like to see more use of green space and make it more of
a park then a clrainage area with a few trees.
Ms. Modig felt there would not be a lot of bikes in that area
because it is kind of a private development.
Mr. Newman felt Plan B was a tremendous improvement over A. He
asked if the cottages are similar to those in Lakeville.
Mr. Stutz stated these are the same with different architecture
and these will have some different colors.
Mr. Newman stated, in response to the concerns about space, he
� thought a lot can be handled with strong architecture. The open
area in the northwest corner should be throughout. He has major
^ BPECIAL PLANNINm COMMI88ION MSBTINa, MARCH 29. 1995 PADE 30
concerns about the big townhouse buildings. They are huge. He
is concerned about what they will look like 10 years from now.
He is concerned about the size and mass in relation to how close
they are to 3rd Street and Satellite. He did not think a two-car
garage was necessary. Those three 16-unit buildings are of
tremendous concern.
Mr. Sielaff stated he would prefer to see them located near
University Avenue.
Mr. Newman stated, if they took the clusters and did a variation
there, he would prefer that. If they took the 16-unit buildings
and made them 8-unit buildings, he would prefer that. There
would be �ore green space and more open.
Mr. Sielaff asked if a townhouse represents life cycle housing or
can other housing do that also. He also questions the big
buildings and would prefer not to see them.
Mr. Newman stated he is concerned about the size. He has no
doubt they will fill up but they are huge buildings. While they
have a strong architecture to break up the fronts and the
entrances, they are still 175 foot buildings. The others don't
� concern him because he has seen them in other parts of the
country. The lots are not very wide but there is still a sense
of privacy. One could create green space such as there is at the
northwest corner.
Ms. Dacy stated the consensus is for alternative B with four
housing products with concerns about the 16-unit buildings.
Staff will continue with this plan and talk about the density
issues. Staff are in a precarious position of reporting to three
bodies. From the HRA standpoint, a significant reduction in
density will change the budget for the HRA. This plan will have
no net impact for them. If this is passed out of the Planning
Commission, she wants to make sure of the things discussed are
things you will be comfortable with after the development is
built. Just like any other project, this commission makes a
recommendation to the City Council who may take another approach.
Some of the issues of density will be evaluated by the HRA.
Mr. Newman stated he realizes there are economic issues. Their
role is to look at planning issues. If they decided not to
follow the recommendation, that is their decision. However, he
does feel these buildings are massive and he does have a concern.
Ms. Modig asked if the buildings could be done in a quad home
with a similar density.
n Mr. Newman stated he thought they would lose density.
,--�
SPECIAL PLANNIN� COMMIBBION MEETINa. MARCH 29. 1995 PAGE 31
Mr. Newman asked for comments regarding the site design.
Mr. Sielaff stated much of this had already been addressed. It
might be good to have the road to the west which could be
extended down to Satellite Drive for better access.
Mr. Newman thought that would bring more traffic into the area.
Mr. Sielaff stated that 3rd is clearly the major thoroughfare.
Mr. Oquist stated that street would not be city owned and, if
extended, would become a thoroughfare. It may create problems.
The consensus of the Commission concurrefl with staff
recommendations.
Mra Newman asked for comments regarding buffers.
Ms. Modig asked if there would be a fence all the way around the
development.
Ms. Dacy stated no, there was no fence along Satellite Lane.
� Mr. Oquist asked what they were trying to buffer.
Ms. Dacy stated there is concern about noise into the area. From
the outside, you did not want to see a line of garages. They
wanted to see something at the corner that says you are in
Fridley. With the fence, columns, berms and landscaping, it
makes a nice transition.
Mr. Kondrick stated his questions reqarding the berms had been
answered.
Mr. Oquist stated he would prefer to see more buffering done with
vegetation and landscaping rather than fences.
Ms. Modig asked what the buffering would be.
Mr. Stutz stated they are dealing with more confined spacesa
They would have columns and arborvitae planted next to each other
�o create a solid fence.
Mr. Kondrick stated the open space will be a public space for
people to congregate. Along with people comes debris, graffiti,
and maintenance. T�ihho would be in charge of that area?
Ms. Dacy stated this had been discussed on a preliminary basis.
It would be maintained by the homeowners association but there
�"1, are a number of issues yet to be discussed.
BPECIAL PLANNIN� COMMIBBION MEETING. MARCB 29. 1995 PAGE 32
n.
Mr. Kondrick stated he could see this area as a problem for
obvious reasons.
Mr. Stutz stated it becomes less of a public space is the
homeowners are in charge. There is not as much pedestrian
traffic on that corner. It looks inviting so people come through
and enjoy.
Mr. Kondrick stated he agrees, but there are kids outside of the
municipal building skateboarding, etc., and it is not designed
for that use either. It still appeals to kids and that is why he
is raising the question.
Mr. Newman thanked the architects for coming to the meeting and
invited them to the meeting on April 26.
Ms. Dacy stated the Environmental Quality & Energy (EQE)
Commission and the Planning Commission talked about a joint
meeting for a water conservation plan. The agenda item for April
5 has been moved to April 19. In order to limit the meetings for
April, the Planning Commission now has two meetinga for April.
The joint meeting can be held on May 3. EQE members will be
notified of the change.
� 4. RECEIVE THE MINUTES OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL OUALITY & ENERGY
COMMISSION MEETING OF FEBRUARY 22. 1995
MOTION by Mr. Sielaff, seconded by Mr. Saba, to receive the
February.22, 1995, Environmental Quality & Energy Commission
minutes.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTIIJC3 AYE, CHAIRPER80N NEWMAN DECLARED
T8E MOTION CARRITD IINANIMOIISLY.
5. RECEIVE THE MINUTES OF THE HUMAN RESOURCES CONIlKISSION
MEETING OF MARCH 2. 1995
MOTION by Mr. Oquist, seconded by Mr. Kondrick, to receive the
March 2, 1995, Human Resources Commission minutes.
IIPON A VOICL VOTE� ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPER80N NEWMAN DECI,ARED
°1'HE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
6. RECEIVE THE MINi7TES OF THE APPEALS COMMISSION MEETING OF
MARCH 14, 1995
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Oquist, to receive the
March 14, 1995, Appeals Commission minutes.
�"1 IIPON A VOICL VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERBON NEWMAN DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED QNANIMOIISLY.
� SPECIAL PLANNING COMMI88ION MEETINa MARCH 29. 1995 PAQE 33
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Saba, to adjourn the
meeting.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTINa AYE, CHAIRPER80N NEWMAN DECLAR�D
THE MOTION CARRIED AND THE MARCH 29, 1995, BPECIAL PLANNINa
COMMIBBION MELTING ADJOIIRNED AT 10i50 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
i�i' � y (�
avonn Cooper
Recording Secretary
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S I G N— IN S H E E T
PLANNING COMMISSIaN.MEETING, _ Wednesday, March 29, 1995
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S I G N— IN S H E E T
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, Wednesday, March 29, 1995