04/03/1996 - 00003487CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996
CALL TO ORDER:
chairperson Newman called the April 3, 1996, Planning commission meeting to order at
7:33 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: �ave Newman, �iane savage, �eROy oquist, �ean saba, Brad sielaff,
connie Modig
Members Absent: �ave Kondrick
others Present: scott Hickok, Planning coordinator
Michelle McPherson, Planning Assistant
�ori & �ick Kempe, 5235 Taylor street
7ackie & 7erry sypnieski, 5251 Taylor street
Bill �ob, 5250 Taylor street
Kwin zemke, 5299 Taylor street
�im Rosemeyer, 5285 Taylor street
�ohn Egelkrout, 5234 Taylor street
�ames cook, 1338 - 53rd Avenue N.E.
Dean Bliss, 5212 Fillmore street
Ronald Parizek, 5258 Fillmore street
�ames Petron, 5300 Fillmore street
Mary Matthews, 1259 skywood �ane
Ron stelter, Friendly chevrolet
Michael Klein, Phillips Klein co., rnc.
�ohn &�une �inder, 1350 skywood �ane N.E.
Nancy �ark, 5201 central Avenue N.E.
wayne �ahl, 7699 Highway 65
charlotte Nessman, 8019 - 6th street N.E.,
spring �ake Park, Minnesota
Marvin Nunemaker, 5060 Topper �ane N.E.
sheldon Mortenson, 1289 skywood �ane N.E.
�ary colby, Menards
steve soltau, skywood Mall
Brian Malkerson, Esq., 901 Marquette Avenue,
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Pat Conlin, Milestone Hotel Investments,
681 E. Lake street, wayzata, Minnesota
�onald �elich, 5284 Taylor street N.E.
�udy Engebretson, 5216 Taylor street N.E.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
MOTION by Ms. Modig, seconded by Ms. savage, to approve the agenda.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
APPROVAL OF MARCH 20, 1996, PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Mr. sielaff, to approve the March 20, 1996, Planning
commission minutes as written.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
1. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT, CPA #96-01, BY
THE CITY OF FRIDLEY:
rn accordance with state statute 462.355, subdivision 2, procedure for plan
adoption and amendment. The proposal would add policy #4 to Page 6-5, chapter 6,
water, sewer and solid waste:
4. The city will apply National urban Runoff Program (NURP) standards for the
design of new stormwater ponds and the Minnesota Pollution control Agency's
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 2
(MPCA) urban best management practices titled Protecting water Quality in
urban Areas to the review of any proposed development occurring in the city
of Fridley to reduce nonpoint source pollutant loadings in stormwater
runoff. The city will incorporate these standards and requirements in its
stormwater management plan and land use controls to implement this policy.
MOTION by Ms. savage, seconded by Mr. sielaff, to waive the reading of the public
hearing notice and to open the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 7:38 P.M.
Ms. McPherson stated the comprehensive Plan amendment is being proposed by the city of
Fridley. The amendment would add policy #4 to chapter 6, "water, sewer and solid
waste", and addresses the city's stormwater runoff and water quality policies. The
amendment is actually related to a comprehensive Plan change associated with the Home
�epot request. rn 1995, the city changed the land use designation for the Home �epot
site located at Main street and r-694 from industrial to commercial. The site consists
of 14.5 acres. The Metropolitan Council is reviewing that Comprehensive Plan amendment
indicated the city would also amend its water, sewer and solid waste chapter to include
best management practices and National urban Runoff Program requirements.
Ms. McPherson stated the city has already adopted an erosion control ordinance and
adopted the MPCA's best management practices by reference so the cities have been
incorporating these water quality standards for a number of years prior to this
amendment. This amendment is a housekeeping item to comply with the Metropolitan
council directive. The only action for the Planning commission is to take public
comment and to approve the language included in the agenda packet.
The Planning commission had no questions of staff. No public comment was received.
MOTION by Ms. Modig, seconded by Ms. savage, to close the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 7:42 P.M.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. savage, to recommend approval of comprehensive Plan
Amendment, cPA #96-01, by the city of Fridley, in accordance with state statute 362.355,
subdivision 2, procedure for plan adoption and amendment, to add policy #4 to chapter 6,
water, sewer and solid waste, as follows:
4. The city will apply National urban Runoff Prog ram (NURP) standards for the design
of new stormwater ponds and the Minnesota Pollution control Agency's (MPCA) urban
best management practices titled Protecting water Quality in urban Areas to the
review of any proposed development occurring in the city of Fridley to reduce
nonpoint source pollutant loadings in stormwater runoff. The city will
incorporate these standards and requirements in its stormwater management plan
and land use controls to implement this policy.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Ms. McPherson stated the city council would consider this item at their meeting on April
22.
2. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, #96-03, BY WAYNE DAHL:
Per section 214.07 of the Fridley city code, to allow an automatic changeable
sign, generally located at 7699 Highway 65 N.E.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. Modig, to waive the reading of the public hearing
notice and to open the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 7:44 P.M.
Ms. McPherson stated the special use permit request is for 7699 Highway 65, which is
located at the southeast corner of the intersection of Highway 65 and osborne Road. The
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 3
special use permit is in relation to section 214.07 of the Fridley city sign code which
requires that a special use permit be issued prior to the installation of any automatic
changeable sign. Mr. �ahl is proposing to install a new sign advertising his
chiropractic clinic located on the subject parcel.
Ms. McPherson stated the sign in question is a 4.8 square foot sign located on the sign
which will display the time and temperature. The sign area with the two portions of the
sign is less than the 80 square feet allowed by code. There are two other time and
temperature signs in the city - one at Home value along r-694 and the second at TcF Bank
at 52nd and central. Menards also has an automatic changeable sign; however, the
conditions of the Menards sign are such that the message may change only once every 15
minutes. rn the case of Mr. �ahl's sign, the message may change more often as it is a
time and temperature sign.
Ms. McPherson stated, as the sign meets the criteria of the sign code, staff recommends
approval of the special use permit with the following stipulation:
1. rf the use of this sign becomes more than time and temperature, the message shall
change no more than once every 15 minutes.
The Planning commission had no questions of staff.
Mr. �ahl stated he had no additional information.
Mr. Newman asked if the petitioner was comfortable with the stipulation.
Mr. Dahl stated yes.
No comment was received from the public.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Mr. sielaff, to close the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 7:46 P.M.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. savage, to recommend approval of special use Permit,
sP #96-03, by wayne �ahl, to allow an automatic changeable sign, generally located at
7699 Highway 65 N.E., with the following stipulation:
1. rf the use of this sign becomes more than time and temperature, the message shall
change no more than once every 15 minutes.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Ms. McPherson stated the city council would consider this request at their meeting of
April 22.
3. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #96-04, BY ROGER MOODY
OF FRIENDLY CHEVROLET:
Per section 205.15.O1.c.(2) of the Fridley city code, to allow automobile
agencies selling or displaying new and/or used motor vehicles in order for a
showroom/office expansion, generally located at 7501 Highway 65 N.E.
MOTION by Ms. savage, seconded by Mr. sielaff, to waive the reading of the public
hearing notice and to open the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 7:48 P.M.
Ms. McPherson stated the special use permit request is for property located at 7501
Highway 65. The subject parcel is located on Highway 65 and Fireside �rive in the
northeast corner of the intersection. �irectly to the north is Kurt Manufacturing and
to the south is the trailer court. The petitioner's request is to expand the showroom
area of the facility.
Ms. McPherson stated the petitioner is proposing to construct a two-story office and
showroom addition along the north side of the facility. The footprint of the addition
is 3,904 square feet. rn addition, the petitioner is also proposing to install some new
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 4
curb and gutter along the frontage road along Highway 65 and install some additional
landscaping along this same frontage.
Ms. McPherson stated staff, in reviewing the request, determined there are a number of
outstanding issues with this particular property in terms of code requirements
specifically dealing with the curb and gutter around the perimeter. The 1971 building
permit issued for the original dealership required that curbing was to be installed
around all blacktop parking and driveway areas which were to be located in front of the
building and also that additional curbing was to be installed along the perimeter along
Fireside �rive. unfortunately, a date was never
established between the original developer and the city for installation of the curbing
along Fireside �rive.
Ms. McPherson stated staff reviewed the request in terms of all setback and lot coverage
requirements. All building setback requirements are met by the proposed addition.
There are three areas in which the parking area does not meet the setback requirements.
Those are along the frontage road along Highway 65, along Fireside �rive, and along the
rear property line which is adjacent to a vacant parcel.
Ms. McPherson stated the parking requirements are met by the petitioner. As calculated
by the code, the use requires 76 parking spaces. However, there are 586 parking spaces
available on the site as striped on the site plan. rf the city anticipates a change in
the building use, the potential parking spaces required is based on the speculative
parking ratio of 1:200 square feet. using that ratio, the building would require 196
spaces. There is more than adequate parking available on the site to meet this parking
requirement.
Ms. McPherson stated there is potentially an issue with the building code requirement.
The state of Minnesota recently passed a handicap code which would require that handicap
access be provided to the second floor offices. The city has indicated that there may
be an elevator required as a stipulation of approval; however, in speaking with the
building official and the architect, that stipulation is still up for debate and the
city is looking to the state of Minnesota for guidance on that issue.
Ms. McPherson stated, regarding grading and drainage, the petitioner will be replacing
existing green area along the north side of the building plus along the front side with
a concrete display area for cars. The engineering department has indicated that, if
additional green space is provided along the Highway 65 frontage as indicated in the
stipulations, the engineering department will not require a grading and drainage plan.
The petitioner also submitted a landscape plan specifically dealing with the Hi ghway 65
frontage. The petitioner has indicated a hedge of junipers directly in front of the
building. one of the areas for screening not currently provided is adjacent to the
Fireside �rive frontage. staff has indicated that additional screening and landscaping
should be provided along Fireside �rive.
Ms. McPherson stated staff recommends approval of the request with the following
stipulations:
1. The boulevard area along the front of the property (facing Highway 65) shall be
expanded to meet the 20 foot hardsurface area.
2. The petitioner shall provide curb and gutter along the entire perimeter of the
parking area.
3. The petitioner shall install additional street trees along the center part of the
boulevard area.
4. The petitioner shall expand the boulevard area along Fireside �rive to meet the
20 foot hardsurface setback and provide the required landscaping , a three foot
berm or hedge, to provide screening for the adjacent residential property.
5. No cars shall be displayed on the boulevard.
Mr. sielaff stated staff indicated that part of the problem previously was that the
improvements were bit made because no time frame was stipulated. what is the assurance
that this will not be a problem in this case?
Ms. McPherson stated the city requires for all building construction a performance bond
that would be the city's compliance tool.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 5
Ms. savage asked if they needed a time frame to complete the stipulations.
Ms. McPherson stated it would be an added assurance the improvements would be completed
in a timely fashion. staff is working with a different property owner than the person
who originally developed the property.
Mr. Newman stated the issue is installing the elevator is a building code issue rather
than a zoning code issue.
Ms. McPherson stated yes. This is not a stipulation. rt is just a note of interest in
the staff report.
Mr. sielaff stated the site is required to have 196 parking spaces. �oes this prevent
the petitioner from putting vehicles in those 196 spaces?
Ms. McPherson stated no. The purpose of making the calculation was to determine if the
number of spaces is adequate should the use change from a car dealership with an office
and showroom to a more intensive manufacturing use. staff wanted to make sure there
would be adequate parking spaces should the use change in the future. The code has no
parking calculations for car dealerships.
Mr. sielaff asked if there were required parking spaces for retail customers.
Ms. McPherson stated the parking stalls are all put together. The original calculation
indicated 76 spaces are required by the existing use. 20 spaces are directly in front
and would be used for customers who are coming to view cars.
Mr. stelter, controller for Friendly chevrolet, stated Mr. Moody was unable to attend
the meeting. He and Mr. Klein were present to answer any questions.
Mr. Klein stated he would like to review some items on the staff report and to ask to
reconsider based on plans the owner has for future development of the property. Mr.
Klein presented a site plan for the property.
Mr. Klein stated, regarding the first stipulation, the petitioner is proposing they
retain the existing setback line as previously established but that they provide curbing
along that line. rn front of the building, they are in compliance with a 20-foot
setback. They would retain that and re-curb with concrete curb and gutter. �ust to the
north and south, they are deficient with the setback by 8-10 feet. They are proposing
they be allowed to retain that deficiency that curb that front line. The reason for
that request is that the front line is already established with some landscaping. There
is a security fencing which exists along that front setback. The owner recently
replaced the entire parking lot lighting and was replaced with respect to the existing
setback.
Mr. Klein stated they are asking that stipulation #1 be changed or revised to read that
the boulevard area be expanded to meet the hardsurface setback area or the applicant
obtain the necessary variances. That has to do with what is already is place.
Historically, the original property line was out an additional 30 feet. over the
history of the property, the land for the frontage road was taken out of this original
property as a road access easement. That is how it became not in compliance.
Mr. Klein stated the owner has purchased some additional property behind the site. That
land measures approximately 200 feet x 700 feet going all the way back to old central
Avenue. He is also negotiating with Brick Brothers building owners to swap some of that
land so that he ends up with a parcel of equal size running along the back property
line. rf this can be done, he would then develop that piece of property. rf they are
required to put concrete curb along the back property line today, that might have to be
changed in one or two years when the property is expanded. As part of a phased
construction, the second phase is expected to be done in a year or two. The owner wants
to set up an inside service write up area which they anticipate would require a second
addition of 3,000 to 5,000 square feet. There would then be reconstruction of the curb
line and relocation of the curb cuts along Fireside �rive. They would like additional
time to plan this second addition and the reconstruction of the back parking lot. The
owner would like the staff report to be amended to allow him additional time to either
meet the present setback along Fireside �rive and to meet the curb requirements along
the west and east property lines with respect to how the rest of the property may
develop. The owner has requested three to five years to plan this out.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 6
Mr. Klein stated the north property line has changed from the original. six additional
feet were purchased along the north side of the property. There is a fence line between
Kurt Manufacturing and Friendly chevrolet and that fence line is on the property line.
They ask that they be given an opportunity to seed a variance with respect to the
setback and the curbing along the north property line. They are proposing to curb the
entire west property line from corner to corner but they would like to have the
opportunity to request a variance for the setback.
Mr. Klein stated, regarding stipulation #3, they would be happy to re-submit a landscape
plan to show additional plantings along the frontage road.
Mr. Newman stated stipulation #4 raises the issue of curb cuts and the fact that the
petitioner does not know what the future plans will be.
Mr. Klein stated this was correct. Along Fireside Drive, he realizes there are
deficiencies. They would like an opportunity to sit down with staff to work out a plan
where they can accomplish curbing and landscaping and also look at the nature of the
property, how they think the property will develop over time, and work out a plan that
works for all. using the 20 foot setback as recommended would result in a net loss of
90 cars from the property. They would virtually lose one row of cars along Fireside
�rive if the 20-foot setback were enforced. They would like an opportunity to work with
staff in developing this service write up addition, finding where the curb cuts go, and
try to come up with a compromise plan to minimize the loss of the cars but still address
the city's concerns with respect to the landscape boulevard line.
Mr. Klein stated they have no problem with stipulation #5.
Mr. sielaff asked if it was correct that the petitioner was proposing delaying curb and
gutter on the entire east side and on the entire south side.
Mr. Klein stated this was correct.
Mr. sielaff asked what the petitioner was proposing for the north side.
Mr. Klein stated they would like to delay that or be provided the opportunity as part of
approval to request a variance on that side. The reason they are requesting this is that
neither they nor Kurt Manufacturing utilizes that green space.
Ms. savage asked on which stipulation would the petitioner need a variance before the
Appeals Commission.
Ms. McPherson stated this would include stipulations #1 and #4. curb and gutter
requirement is in the zoning code. Theoretically, they could come before the Appeals
commission and asked that this requirement be waived.
Ms. savage asked if the petitioner planned to appeal in the near future.
Mr. Klein stated they were prepared to curb the front this year. rf no variance is
granted on the north, they would also do that this year. Any work along the south and
east property lines would come at a later date with the proposed future addition.
Mr. sielaff stated the petitioner had requested three to five years. why does it take
so long?
Mr. stelter stated it takes time to generate profits in order to justify the addition.
Mr. Klein stated, if they ask for a year, they may be back next year for an extension.
The owner has owned the property in back for about one year. rt may take another year
to resolve the issues associated with the proposed swap.
Mr. stelter stated the reason for the addition is to get rid of the trailer house, which
was something the city had asked them to do.
No comment was received from the public.
Mr. Newman stated, as he understands, stipulations 3 and 5 are okay. The petitioner is
asking, under stipulation #1, the alternative of obtaining a variance from having to
provide the 20 foot setback area. The petitioner would also like to have a variance
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 7
from having to comply with stipulation #4 which is the setback area along Fireside
�rive. The issue is that the petitioner wants to have the option of asking for a
variance from providing curb and gutter along the north property line and three to five
years to be able to provide curb and gutter along the south and east property lines.
Mr. Klein stated this was correct.
Mr. Newman stated he would assume that, if the petitioner fails in getting a variance
for the west property line, you will be prepared to complete that work in a more timely
fashion.
Mr. Klein stated this was correct. They would proceed with this along with the showroom
and office addition.
Mr. sielaff stated he was bothered by the fact that the city has had problems at this
location already. rs three to five years a commitment to do this?
Mr. Klein stated he thought the owners commitment would be that in five years, if they
had not proceeded with the addition or the development of that back lot, they would then
put in the curb and gutter along the south and east property line or attempt to obtain a
variance.
Ms. savage stated she thought the problem of a lack of compliance was with a previous
owner. There has been a history of lack of compliance so this is a concern.
Mr. Newman stated he thought the commission would be more comfortable if there was some
sort of security to look to in order to insure compliance. There is a history on this
site of delayed compliance. There is a problem if, for whatever reason, the petitioner
or a successive owner of that property does not comply with these conditions, the
alternative is to bring criminal charges or attempt to have the certificate of occupancy
revoked or end up pleading with a successor to perform. Mr. Newman stated he would feel
more comfortable approving the additional time if they knew there was something they
could go to in the event compliance was not forthcoming.
Mr. Klein stated the discrepancies have been on the books for 25 years. They bought the
property in 1991 and they asked the city what these discrepancies were. They were told
only about the sprinklers. The city never discussed the setback discrepancies. He
would have to get the owner's permission to get a letter of credit.
Mr. Newman stated he fully recognizes the petitioner is a recent owner. These problems
are from the previous owners. staff has as a goal to bring nonconforming property up to
compliance. staff would like this to work for the petitioner, but they also need
assurance that this will happen.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. savage, to close the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 8:24 P.M.
Ms. Modig asked, when the petitioner received the permit for the lighting, why was the
setback not brought to their attention then.
Ms. McPherson stated typically when someone pulls electrical permits to change the
lights, it is not required to submit a site plan, etc. They work with the electrical
contractor. staff did not have an opportunity to comment on that change.
Mr. saba asked if it was true that the setbacks were caused by the service road and
Fireside Drive expansion.
Ms. McPherson stated she could not speak to that. There was no discussion in the
address file regarding any taking by the city in terms of the frontage road or Fireside
�rive. staff would need to do further research. she did indicate she would be willing
to look at that as an issue prior to the city council meeting.
Mr. sielaff stated he is leaning toward tabling this until staff can get assurances.
The people who can do that are not here. rf the petitioner seeks variances, this could
continue on.
Ms. McPherson stated she believed the commission could move this request forward by
amending the stipulations. stipulation #1 could say, ". .. to meet the 20 foot hard
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 8
surface setback or apply for and receive a variance to maintain the existing setbacks."
Assuming if they did not receive a variance, they would then be required to improve the
boulevard area to the 20 foot setback.
Mr. sielaff asked what about the curb and gutter issues and the three to five year time
frame.
Mr. Newman asked the history of compliance with the current owner of this property.
Ms. McPherson stated the current owner has been very compliant to work with. He has
gone through the process for the trailer permit. There was an extension to the trailer
permit license to have additional time for this proposed expansion plan and he is coming
in within the time frame that he stated before the city council. The city has not had
any complaints. she received no phone calls regarding the request this evening. Mr.
Moody have been very cooperative with the city.
Mr. Newman stated he was not comfortable with a five-year time frame but he could go
with three years. Before going to the city council, perhaps the petitioner could work
with staff to develop assurances that this will be done within three years. That would
move the request forward. The Planning commission can address the issue of security and
make the council aware of it.
Mr. saba stated he was comfortable with that as well as working with staff on the time
period for curb and gutter prior to the council meeting.
Ms. McPherson stated the commission could add a stipulation #6 that would require some
type of performance bond or security. staff could then work with the petitioner to come
up with some type of accommodating in that regard.
Mr. Newman stated he preferred the work assurances. Although there is a 25 year history
of non-compliance, that is not the case with this owner. staff may feel comfortable
with other assurances.
Mr. Newman suggested the following stipulations:
1. The boulevard area along the front of the property (facing Highway 65) shall be
expanded to meet the 20 foot hardsurface setback area unless the applicant
obtains a variance for the same.
2. The petitioner shall provide curb and gutter along the west perimeter and the
north perimeter of the parking area except where they may obtain a variance
therefrom.
3. The petitioner shall install additional street trees along the center part of the
boulevard area.
4. No cars shall be displayed in the boulevard.
5. The petitioner shall provide curb and gutter along the east and south perimeter
of the parking area within three years of the issuance of the special use permit.
6. The petitioner shall expand the boulevard area along Fireside �rive to meet the
20 foot hardsurface setback and provide the required landscaping , a three foot
berm or hedge, to provide screening for the adjacent residential property; which
work shall be completed in three years unless the petitioner obtains a variance
therefrom.
7. All items, except for those that have a three year grace period, shall be
completed prior to the issuance of the certificate of occupancy.
8. Prior to going to the city council, the petitioner shall work with staff to come
up with reasonable assurances that those items not completed at the time of the
issuance of the certificate of occupancy will be completed within the time period
as provided.
MOTION by Mr. sielaff, seconded by Ms. Modig, to recommend approval of special use
Permit, sP #96-04, by Roger Moody of Friendly chevrolet, to allow automobile agencies
selling or displaying new and/or used motor vehicles in order for a showroom/office
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 9
expansion, generally located at 7501 Highway 65 N.E., with the following stipulations:
1. The boulevard area along the front of the property (facing Highway 65) shall be
expanded to meet the 20 foot hardsurface setback area unless the applicant
obtains a variance for the same.
2. The petitioner shall provide curb and gutter along the west perimeter and the
north perimeter of the parking area except where they may obtain a variance
therefrom.
3. The petitioner shall install additional street trees along the center part of the
boulevard area.
4. No cars shall be displayed in the boulevard.
5. The petitioner shall provide curb and gutter along the east and south perimeter
of the parking area within three years of the issuance of the special use permit.
6. The petitioner shall expand the boulevard area along Fireside �rive to meet the
20 foot hardsurface setback and provide the required landscaping , a three foot
berm or hedge, to provide screening for the adjacent residential property; which
work shall be completed in three years unless the petitioner obtains a variance
therefrom.
7. All items, except for those that have a three year grace period, shall be
completed prior to the issuance of the certificate of occupancy.
8. Prior to going to the city council, the petitioner shall work with staff to come
up with reasonable assurances that those items not completed at the time of the
issuance of the certificate of occupancy will be completed within the time period
as provided.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Ms. McPherson stated the city council would consider this request at their meeting of
April 22.
4. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #96-05, BY MENARD,
INC.:
Per section 205.15.O1.c.(3) of the Fridley city code, to allow agencies selling
or displaying recreational vehicles, boats, and marine equipment, machinery,
manufactured homes, or other similar enterprises having merchandise in the open
and not within an enclosed structure, generally located at 965 - 53rd Avenue N.E.
(the Menards property).
Mr. Hickok stated the four special use permit requests are related to Menards interest
in purchasing the skywood Mall. The skywood Mall is adjacent to and south of Menards as
it exists in the southeast quadrant of r-694 and Highway 65. Two special use permits
are for skywood Mall and two are for the existing Menards facility.
Mr. Hickok stated special use Permit, sP #96-05, deals with the outdoor display of
merchandise on the Menards property. special use Permit, sP #96-02, deals with the
outdoor unscreened storage of materials and equipment at the skywood Mall property.
special use Permit, sP #96-07, deals with the outdoor display of inerchandise at the
skywood Mall property. special use Permit, sP #96-06. deals with unscreened outdoor
storage of materials and equipment on the Menards property.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Mr. sielaff, to waive the reading of the public hearing
notice and to open the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 8:37 P.M.
Mr. Hickok stated this special use permit is related to the Menards site located at 965
- 53rd Avenue N.E. and would allow the outdoor display of inerchandise not within an
enclosed structure. He showed photos of the site. rn the southwest corner of the site
is an existing screening fence. Above that fence is material that is stored and is
visible. Along the front, merchandise is stored in the open. Along the northwest
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 10
corner of the building is displayed yard barn structures which are displayed in the
open. Menards has a fenced enclosure which has outside storage of materials. The
materials visible above that fence is considered outdoor storage of materials.
Mr. Newman stated, to clarify, that this public hearing is for the merchandise displayed
in front of the building.
Mr. Hickok stated this was correct and also includes any merchandise behind the building
that can be seen from adjacent properties or the public right-of-way. This would
include items stored above the fence.
Mr. Newman stated the second permit deals with what is stored behind the fence.
Mr. Hickok stated yes. That deals with items stored outside which could include
pallets, equipment, etc.
Mr. sielaff asked if the pallets is a large part of the outside storage.
Mr. Hickok stated it is fairly large. There are pallet racks which are which are
considered outdoor storage. These are not merchandise but meant to facilitate the
merchandise. Along the north wall, there are materials stored above the screening
fence.
Mr. Hickok stated this is an existing facility with existing conditions. At the time a
modification is made to an existing facility, it causes the entire site to go through an
evaluation to review the compatibility of the proposal. This case is related to
Menards' interest in purchasing the skywood Mall and modify the rear storage area
between the two buildings to open contiguous storage behind Menards and behind the mall
structure.
Mr. Hickok stated the city has a reasonable degree of discretion in determining the
suitability of certain designated uses on the public health, safety and general welfare.
The city may consider the nature of the land upon which the uses are to be located, the
nature of adjoining land and buildings, the effect upon traffic into and from the
premises and on adjoining roads, and such other facilities that the city shall
reasonably be affected by such use.
Mr. Hickok stated the current site is zoned c-3. Menards has been in that location
since 1974. At the time they located on the site, the zoning was c-25. The zoning has
changed and now causes the site to be reviewed as a result of the proposed modification.
zoning is defined as a municipalities ability to control the compatibility of land uses
through land use regulation.
Mr. Hickok stated, as staff analyzed the site, they looked at surrounding natural
features and considered the impacts of the outside storage of inerchandise. one of the
natural features considered was the natural elevation of the storage area at the base of
the hill. As you move to the east, there is a drastic increase in elevation toward the
single family residential area. The natural features include a severe grade change and
woodland vegetation that helps separate the existing use from the residential area to
the east.
Mr. Hickok stated the significant difference in elevation causes a distinct difficulty
in the ability to fully screen merchandise outside or items being stored outside in the
rear storage area. with the difference in elevation and the fact that outdoor storage
can cause additional noise to the surrounding area, can create impacts of light and
glare, can cause unsightliness from merchandise and materials being stored outdoors,
cause conflicts with physically challenged individuals, can compromise the safety of the
materials themselves, can compromise enjoyment of the surrounding property, and a
potential aesthetic decline associated with outdoor unscreened storage and display.
Mr. Hickok stated staff is recommending denial of the request. rn the event that this
project does not move forward, the existing conditions on the site would remain. Any
modification would cause the current standards to prevail.
Mr. Newman stated, if this permit were denied and expansion did not occur, this would
not necessarily prohibit the petitioner from conducting business as they do today.
Mr. Hickok stated this was correct.
Mr. Newman asked, when dealing with outside display, does this include items that are in
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 11
front of the store as well.
Mr. Hickok stated yes.
Mr. Newman asked if there was a natural screen of the building itself in front.
Mr. Hickok stated, if the only area of concern was the residential area to the east, the
building as a screen would be a good argument. But, if looking at all perspectives
including that as you drive by the site, those views would be considered as well.
Mr. Newman asked if other retailers have wanted outside display. what has been the
City's practice?
Mr. Hickok stated other retailers have requested outside display. The city has a
standard policy of stipulation that no outdoor storage happen outside of the structures
such as garden centers. rn previous requests by Home �epot and wal-Mart for their
�arden centers, sales and display is to be confined within the garden center. other
big box" commercial properties who have expressed outdoor display have not been
allowed. one small commercial property that sells snowmobile trailers has been
permitted to have those outdoors. Their situation is quite different. They have an
area back from the pedestrian way.
Mr. soltau, an owner from skywood Mall, stated they are currently under contract with
Menards. He has some degree of difficulty in addressing these issues four separate
times. He asked if the commission would be voting on the requests separately.
Mr. Newman stated he thought they needed to vote on the requests separately. He thought
they would conduct all the public hearings, discuss the requests, but vote on them
separately. He is comfortable with the petitioner giving one presentation, and those
comments can be reflected in the following public hearings.
Mr. soltau introduced Mr. Malkerson, Mr. colby, and Mr. conlin. They would like to
provide an appreciation of the evolution of this property both historically and today,
why they are here with Menards, why they think this is proper utilization of the
property, and the benefits that will be derived.
Mr. Malkerson, attorney for Mr. soltau of the skywood Mall, stated he thought it would
be beneficial to expedite the hearings and to get clarification of some of the legal
aspects. He thought the applicant was somewhat surprised when he received the staff
report. Based upon private meetings, he thought that it would get a positive
recommendation from staff. At this time, they are trying to fi gure out what they can do
to get the support of the staff, the Planning commission, and the neighborhood.
Mr. Malkerson stated, as he understands it, there are two parcels. To the north is the
existing Menards building and in the back is a fence with some storage. As he
understands the presentation of staff, the storage that is outside the building and
outside the fence is the subject of the first hearing.
Mr. Hickok stated this hearing includes merchandise stored outdoors whether inside or
outside the fence.
Mr. Malkerson stated, if he assumes that no materials could be viewed above the fence,
that behind the building where there is a fence all materials were below the top of the
fence, they would not need a special use permit for future use.
Mr. Newman stated they would not need a special use permit for the issue of storage
according to the original c-25 zoning on the property. For the question of expanding
outside display, they would still need a special use permit for exterior storage.
Mr. Malkerson stated anytime material is outside, even though it is fully screened by a
fence, it still needs a special use permit.
Mr. Newman stated this was correct.
Mr. Malkerson stated he did not agree. As he understands it, there is the Menards
building and the rear storage area. Menards is proposing to purchase the property next
door and have an operation there with fencing and outside storage in the back. rt is
his understanding that Menards is asking that, if they expand, that they can put some
materials outside here as they have on the existing site.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 12
Mr. Hickok stated the outdoor storage would pertain to anything they would have
outdoors. rf staff were recommending approval, he would talk about and stipulate what
would be on the sidewalk out front, any merchandise that can be seen from the right-of-
way or adjacent properties that is outside on the skywood property as well as Menards.
Mr. Malkerson stated he did not think, if Menards acquires the second parcel, that this
is an expansion of a nonconforming use. He believes it is stand alone. They happen to
be side-by-side but, if they get a permit for the second, he thought they were unrelated
as it relates to an expansion of a nonconforming use as to an existing building on a
separate site.
Mr. Malkerson stated, on the conditional use standards, as he understands the law, when
a use is allowed under the Comprehensive Plan, that although there are some pretty
general standards, it really is not the their duty to prove that they comply with the
use. unless there are specific standards that call out decibel levels, etc., it is not
their burden to meet. rt is the city's burden to show that they don't meet the
standards. They are here to do whatever they can to try to bring about a change to
existing Menards structure and use to make a better situation for everyone. That is the
attitude they bring forward. They need to get some direction before they proceed.
Mr. Newman stated, if the applicant is desirous to continue this hearing based on the
statement that the recommendation in the staff report came as a surprise, if you need
additional time to address these comments or to work with the neighbors, that is
something the Planning commission is willing to consider.
Mr. Malkerson stated they were there to find out what it will take to make the city
feel comfortable with however this should be done and to make the nei ghborhood feel
comfortable too. otherwise, Menards will continue to do what is has been doing.
Frankly, if Menards does not expand, you will see continuation of the second building
area as being one with vacant stores and vacant office space which is not good for the
city or the neighborhood.
Mr. colby, Menards, stated he was there to explain their intentions and answer any
questions. They are hoping to purchase the skywood Mall to enable them to expand their
operations. currently, Menards is bul ging at the seams. This is one opportunity to get
more room to spread out and get the piles down by bringing indoors some materials
currently outside. The skywood Mall area is approximately 70,000 square feet. Their
intention is to make about 40,000 square feet into a drive through warehouse for their
building materials and to remodel the front portion to allow for 30,000 square feet of
retail space other than Menards. The area would not likely lose all the retail that is
there. They would move the tenants that are there to the front to give them visibility
and to give them some traffic and success.
Mr. colby stated the requests go hand-in-hand. There are things they would like to do
with the existing facility to upgrade it and make it more functional. Their track
record has not been the best and they are here to rectify that. He understands some
changes need to take place. He did not think it was possible for them to do everything
to satisfy everyone's needs, but they would like to take steps in the proper direction.
Mr. colby stated, along the north side of the existing facility, they would like to
replace the existing fence with a wooden fence along the north and east sides of the
existing Menards building, along the back of the skywood Mall and bring it back up to
the building. The fence is 14 feet high storage and screening fence. The backside is
pressure treated lumber. The inside has racks for storage. The fence will have a roof
so material cannot be stored any higher than the roof. By putting this around basically
three sides of the facility, it helps curb some of the concerns of the visibility of
materials. The fence is mechanically fastened to a concrete slab so it stays straight.
Mr. colby stated for the expansion into the skywood Mall, they would be taking down the
fence that currently exists between the Menards store and the mall, open the area
between the two facilities, demolish the existing two-story office area, and upgrade the
front of the existing skywood Mall area to be more presentable for the new retail
spaces.
Mr. colby stated he understands this will not solve all the problems. He did not think
it was possible to solve all the problems. Menards will continue to operate there.
Their business in Fridley is quite good and they appreciate the residents of Fridley.
what they are proposing is a step in the direction of what you are looking to see. This
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 13
is an improvement over what is currently there and it will Menards to operate their
facility in a much better fashion and to serve their customers better. He asked the
Planning commission to consider the request. They would be happy to consider any
suggestions. This is not a final but this is what they would like to do.
Ms. savage stated, as she understands it, they would not need a special use permit to
purchase the skywood Mall if they were not going to store products outside. The
proposal is to consider all of the outdoor storage that would be within the fence as
described.
Mr. colby stated there would still be outdoor storage. The new fence would allow more
material in the fenced, screened area and materials in the 40,000 square foot skywood
Mall area, but there would still be material outside.
Mr. saba asked if everything would be in the back and not visible because of the fence.
Mr. colby stated the materials would not be visible from ground level, but unfortunately
it would still be visible because of the elevation to the east.
Ms. Modig stated she had seen this type of fence installed at a Menards in waite Park.
The change in appearance was phenomenal. she was very impressed by the change.
Mr. colby stated this would be the same type of fence.
Mr. sielaff asked if the petitioner was planning to tear down a portion of the mall.
Mr. colby stated the current two-story office area is planned to be demolished.
Mr. sielaff stated the plan is then to take out the office area and the additional space
would be used for storage and there would be outdoor storage behind the existing mall.
Mr. colby stated yes.
Mr. sielaff asked if the space in the mall would then be retail space.
Mr. colby stated this would be a drive through warehouse space. For example, plywood
would be stored in that building. rf you wanted 20 sheets of plywood, you would pull up
to the display, load what you wanted, and drive away. rt is almost identical to what is
being done on the existing site.
Ms. savage asked, if the special use permits were denied, what effect would this have on
your plans.
Mr. colby stated they would not purchase the mall.
Ms. Modig asked if that was true if the denial was only for the front storage and the
storage in the back could be maintained in the manner talked about.
Mr. colby stated they have yard barns in front and a fence along the building. The only
thing this store has is a chain link fence which is different from the store in
question.
Mr. sielaff asked how car exhaust was handled in the proposed area.
Mr. colby stated the area will be unheated. The sprinkler system will be changed to a
dry system. There will be a series of openings placed in the exterior walls without
doors. rt will be open but not as open as the existing structures. rn this case of
handling car exhaust, they will have to examine that and the architect will have to
determine if additional ventilation will be required.
Mr. sielaff asked if it was a problem to surrounding areas to ventilate that exhaust.
He is concerned that this will affect the residents.
Mr. colby stated it is vented out the roof. He did not think it would be any different
than traffic on r-694.
Mr. Newman asked if Mr. colby knew the height of the building.
Mr. colby stated he did not know.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 14
Mr. Newman stated he assumed Menards would have storage in the yard area as well. How
high will that be?
Mr. colby stated most of the material is not stored in a rack so it is then limited to
how high a forklift can go. rf it is felt there is a need to limit that, they will
consider it.
Mr. Newman stated, in reading the staff report and in reading the letters and comments
from the neighbors over the years, there is a concern about noise from the activity in
the yard. rs there any way to reduce the impact of noise to the neighborhood?
Mr. colby stated one of the things this will act as is somewhat of a sound wall. The
existing fence is eight to ten feet high. Most of the fence is in a somewhat run down
condition. The proposed fence is 14 feet high and acts as a better sound barrier than
what currently exists. This could only be an improvement.
Mr. Mortenson stated he built the mall which has ended up to be more trouble than what
it is worth. Through the years, they have had quite a few different developments there
which did not work out. For some reason, the center has never done well. Now they have
Menards which is a strong store and has a good business. He lives above there on the
hill about a block away, and he has a vested interested in the property. rn living in
that close proximity, he has not really noticed noise problems from Menards. rn the
past, he used to hear some of the trains in the railroad yard about five miles away.
Then the freeway came along. They now have the freeway noise. Menards is an
insi gnificant noise. He does not hear the railroad now. He only hears the semis and
traffic on r-694.
Mr. Mortenson stated, as far as addressing the noise of Menards, he did not know if that
would be significant in that area any more because of the traffic of the freeway. He is
in support of the proposal and thought it would be good for the community. He showed
photos of the existing view from the parking lot of the hill. Residents have a screen
so they cannot see the existing site. He thought the expansion would benefit Menards
and the community. He thought they would be strong tenants that could keep the center
up and keep it nice.
Mr. Newman stated he realized this was a particularly tricky site because of the
difference of elevation between residential and commercial.
Mr. Mortenson stated, when he first moved to that area, there was nothing but farmland
below the hill. The trees were not quite as thick around his house. At that time,
there was a lot of junk so it was not that pretty.
Mr. Newman asked if there was any way to landscape the side of that hill to block the
impact of Menards but without obstructing the view the residents currently have.
Mr. Hickok stated there may be some possibilities there. At one time, Mr. Mortenson
indicated he had planted as many as 1,000 evergreen trees of which some remain. rt is a
difficult slope with a severe grade. only certain vegetation will adhere to the slope
in this location.
Mr. Mortenson stated, when he finished the center, the hill was a problem. He asked
city staff to walk the hill and they ag reed that planting trees was probably the best
they could do. That was the year of the drought. There is some natural growth and he
put in some drainage sleuths. There is no drainage problem. when on a hill, one will
see and hear stuff.
Mr. Newman asked if the property line ran up the hill.
Mr. Mortenson stated yes.
Mr. soltau stated he will explain how they came to the project, their enthusiasm for the
location, and their frustrations with some of the site limitations caused by the site
characteristics. He thought the proposed combination of uses is the site's highest and
best use.
Mr. soltau stated they bought the property is late 1994. This property has had a
troubled history. rt has had limited occupancy both in the original facility and
limited success in the expanded facility, with the exception of the hotel.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 15
Mr. soltau stated they are excited about skywood Mall. when making leasing calls or
talking to retailers, he gets excited about it. There is tremendous density and
commercial recognition along central Avenue. The area is zoned commercial and should be
zoned commercial. rt is at a major interchange. The traffic counts are phenomenal.
There is potential for retail here. The site is currently under-utilized.
Mr. soltau stated, when they acquired the property, they felt it was an opportunity for
redevelopment. The interior mall configuration has not succeeded. rt is an unanchored
situation and has had limited success. They see the evolution of this property as a
combination retaining the retail, retaining the existing frontage, utilizing the depth
of the building and trying to bring in "big box" tenants. The mall is very deep. rf
they pursue a large retailer, they want the front and then there is no opportunity to
occupy the back. Retailers look for frontage compared to the depth. Their objective
was to find that first big user. That big user has one thing that comes with it -
demand for parking . That is a challenge for this site. They have tried to be creative
in ways to redevelop this site, but they are against the wall. They cannot provide the
parking for the site if it has retail uses. He does not have a solution for that. The
�round Round restaurant does not have enough parking for its current needs. They have
70,000 square feet of building area, not including the office tower. other limitations
are the adjacencies. They need the major anchor to get the small tenants. Menards is a
fantastic operation as is the Kelly rnn but they do nothing to attract the fashion
retail tenants. The adjacencies that are there have created some concern on the part of
the tenants. They cannot do anything about the adjacencies, the depth or the parking.
what can they do with this property? They have considered tearing it down, razing part
of it, and shifting it back to gain more parking.
Mr. soltau stated they have a unique situation to work with Menards, alleviate the
parking for what would otherwise be 70,000 square feet of retail, reconfi gure the
existing retail to a product that is marketable that will work, and reconfigure the
mix and type of tenants. This has been a degenerating situation for some time, and they
want to turn it around.
Mr. soltau stated another limitation is visibility. There is limited visibility to
attract the "big box" user. He did not think they would be able to get one. when
coming back to the Menards proposal, they tear down the existing office structure which
has a good portion that is not occupied. Tenants that are occupying that space do so
because of very favorable economics and the adjacencies to other retail operations.
They do not want to lose those tenants and can provide space for them.
Mr. soltau stated one of the conclusions and findings in the staff report is that there
would be a reduction in the tax base. There has already been a reduction in the tax
base. This property has income producing potentials showing it is somewhat limited.
Revitalization of the site is an opportunity to increase that base. The other findings
that he disagrees with is that there is opportunity to mitigate because of the elevation
difference. He thought something could be done. They are all receptive to suggestions
in that area. The fence itself is screening. There are other conditions that could be
worked with. They thought this was the best mix and the best use.
Mr. soltau stated this is a window of opportunity but they cannot wait long or they will
lose tenants. The tenants want stability and a new lease. He asked the Planning
commission to consider the overall impact on this project is what is best and
appropriate. There is an opportunity to mitigate the problems because of concerns with
the neighbors and this is also an opportunity to work with the neighbors in the area.
Mr. Newman stated Mr. soltau had talked about a"big box" user. rs it feasible that
there might be a single tenant that would take the entire mall.
Mr. soltau stated he hoped that would happen and has worked on it. He has a back�round
in this area and has extensive retail contacts. There are not that many "big box
players out there and they have contacted them all.
Mr. Newman asked, if you had a tenant such as Best Buy, how many parking stalls would be
needed.
Mr. soltau stated many of these retailers have needs which are reflective of the city
codes. Most cities have a ratio of 5:1,000. Any retailer will need parking.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 16
Mr. Newman stated he can see that certain big users would need more parking than others.
Mr. soltau stated central Avenue is its own commercial area. The mall is un-anchored.
The location is an "in-betweener". The area is in-between Rosedale, Brookdale and
Northtown. There are trade areas and "big box" users locate in these areas.
Mr. Conlin stated his company is a partner in the Kelly Inn. They share a common wall
with the mall. They purchased the Kelly rnn about four years ago. At that time, the
hotel had also failed. rt was taken back by the lender, and they purchased it from
lender. They have invested a significant amount of money in this property. rn the
meantime, they have turned the property around. They continue to invest in the property
each year to keep it in first class condition. one of their concerns is that over the
years the mall has become more distressed. They look at that as potentially threatening
the viability and the continuing success of the hotel as well as the value of the
property. As a neighbor, they are directly impacted by the use of that property. He
spent some time with Mr. soltau and Mr. colby discussing their proposal and think their
plan is very favorable to the situation. The plans for shrinking the retail and moving
it to the front of building and enhancing the facade would create a better image for the
property overall. They feel it is an excellent proposal. Their fear is that, if
nothing is done, the mall will continue to deteriorate and will then have an impact of
their property.
Mr. sielaff asked if the hotel had rooms adjacent to the common wall with the proposed
drive through area for Menards.
Mr. conlin stated no. There is some separation between the areas.
Ms. Engebretson stated their property is adjacent to the skywood Mall. They have been
residents for 32 years. she has seen changes. when the mall was built, she came home
to find that bulldozers had been in her yard. she was told the mall would be close to
central Avenue and a 40-foot buffer was the grade of the hill. she does have problems
with the fact. she cannot say she had been as directly impacted by Menards but she
would be impacted if Menards moved behind the mall. rt is hard to believe but they can
hear conversations that take place in the parking lot. These are normal conversations
that take place outside which will hit hill and the sound carries right up. she does
not know how one could screen that. That is just the way the landscape is.
Ms. Engebretson stated she has concerns about the impact of the lighting. How are you
going to control the light from going up? she is already dealing with the lights from
the motel which are at eye level. she has invested in her home by adding an addition.
she does not need to turn the lights on because of the light from the motel. she has
invested in her property thinking that what they have down there is now contained under
a roof. Now they are talking about outside storage that will bring traffic to the back
of the mall. she is concerned about exhaust fumes and the impact that will have on
them.
Ms. Engebretson submitted a petition signed by the members of the neighborhood. The
objections listed included the lighting. Rear lighting of buildings illuminates the
surrounding area and the residential homes above. The noise is a concern. Menards is a
12-hour a day, seven day a week operation. There is no rest. After coming home after
work, they can open their windows and listen to the rooftop air conditioning units, the
backup beepers of fork- lifts and semis, vehicles with doors and tailgates slamming.
Now, they are invading even more her right to come home to her castle.
Ms. Engebretson stated the issue of fire has not been addressed. There will be a
partition dividing the area. she presumed there would be one way in so emergency
vehicles can only enter on each side and not be able to complete drive through. This
needs to be addressed. Menards has had a fire which was contained. Menards will be
dealing with flammable materials. cinders tend to rise. The hill in the fall is dry.
Ms. Engebretson stated debris and spillage of wrappers is a concern. she was not sure,
if more is stored outside, what you could promise them. You talk about a distressed
area. what about the value of the homes? They now not only have a distressed shopping
center but will this now start on the neighborhood?
Ms. Engebretson stated, in the past, there have been requests for outdoor special use
permits, requests for trailer sales, and a request for a bumper car business that were
denied. she thought this was a piece of property that is overdeveloped. rt cannot
manage what is presently there. The side roads were not designed to carry the current
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 17
level of traffic. she is concerned about water flow. when the motel went in, she asked
what would happen to all that rain. she was told the roof pitch would handle the water.
There is no water on the roof but now there is drainage on 52nd which cannot contain
the water. The water overflows into the street. rn the winter, it ices up and creates
a very slippery intersection. Now they are proposing more outdoor storage with more
blacktop and more runoff.
Ms. Engebretson stated she felt bad that the shopping center has not taken off. People
do not want to enter because there is already a traffic situation. she feels bad for
Menards. she understands why they want to expand but she also wonders if it would be
easier to go elsewhere where there are not so many obstacles. she also understood that
they are proposing to cut into the hill 20 feet. rt has taken them 32 years to get the
hill under control to prevent erosion. Their fence went down in the first ten years due
to erosion. sumac was planted on the hill and she now has sumac in her yard. They do
not have a very good feeling for what they have been promised in the past and what they
have gotten. she hoped the neighborhood would be considered and the request be denied.
Mr. Newman stated he got a sense from the comments that Ms. Engebretson might be more
willing to accept this project if more of the issues were addressed.
Ms. Engebretson stated addressing the problems is one thing; making them work is
another. They have always been told it is workable. The neighbors have given up a lot.
They have worked out some things. rt has made an impact on their lives. A motel is
not a business where it is constantly going. Menards busy time is summer when residents
want their windows open. You can address the issues and come up with workable
solutions, but to guarantee that you can enforce those is another thing. companies can
agree but do not do.
Mr. Newman asked Mr. Hickok if the hill would be cut back 20 feet.
Mr. Hickok stated the hill is proposed to be cut back 20 feet at the back of the mall
where it meets the Kelly rnn from the point where the curb currently exists. Moving to
the north of the mall, this will be reduced to approximately 5 feet. A retaining
structure and fence combination is proposed.
Mr. Newman asked the height of the retaining wall.
Mr. Hickok stated the hei ght would vary depending on the slope between two feet and
ei ght feet. The storage fence structure will be no more than 14 feet. The screening
wall will not be more than six feet above that.
Mr. Petron stated he occupied the residence whose property abuts Menards directly to the
east and to the south. He has lived in the neighborhood for 26 years. He would like to
comment on the noise. He can honestly say that any noise that Menards has made has been
no more disturbing than his neighbor mowing the lawn or doing any other outside work.
He was at one time concerned about fire. There was a fire at Menards, but it was
handled well. He has confidence in the fire department. There is no more noise, as far
as he is concerned, from Menards yard than there is from r-694 that he has to deal with.
rt is difficult to sit on the deck and carry on a conversation. rn 26 years, they have
used their deck probably a dozen times. He is concerned about the mall being vacant.
He did not think anything is more ugly in the neighborhood than seeing empty buildings.
when driving by and seeing empty building, people say the nei ghborhood is getting run
down. He is part of the neighborhood and is concerned about that. He would support the
application.
Mr. �elich stated he lives behind the mall and has lived there for 30 years. He was the
first renter in the mall when it was built. His problem is that he is at the highest
point on the hill and would be looking down into their yard. He wondered just how junky
it will be. The map sent out was very poor. He would liked to have seen where the
storage would be and what would be covered and not covered. Behind his lot is a buffer
strip of 75 feet which comes to his lot line where there should be nothing. He is
concerned about the noise. He felt the noise could be limited. They come in on nights
and sundays and unload merchandise. He thought there should be a limit on emptying
trucks at night. They are adjacent to a residential area and this should be limited.
The big concern for him is looking down and seeing what is in that area. will this be a
conglomeration of all kinds of stuff without a system? He stated he can live with
almost anything, but they must keep our neighborhoods. rf they have to sell their home,
he would like to get a good price and not have it devalued.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 18
Mr. Newman asked Mr. �elich is he thought the proposed 14 foot fence would be an
improvement over what is there now.
Mr. �elich stated it would be an improvement over what now exists. There is nothing now
behind skywood Mall except garbage which is a problem. He also has a hedge that blocks
some of the view. The fence will not make much difference to me. He can see the top of
the building which is horrible looking with the air conditioning units, but it is
necessary for commercial so he can live with it.
Mr. saba stated it sounded as though Mr. �elich was seeking order.
Mr. �elich stated that and noise are the factors for him. The lights are not a problem
because they do not shine on his property. Ms. Engebretson is at a lower elevation so
it is a problem for her.
Ms. Matthews handed out copies of letters which represents a 22 year history of
promises. rt is difficult for her not to be emotional about this because it has been 22
years to try to get a noise barrier in. she lives ri ght above Menards and the noise
travels up the hill. she can hear voices and the forklifts. The issue is the outside
operation and the noise. The problem is worse with extended hours. Menards is now
requesting more of the same only moving down the block. The neighborhood needs
cooperation from Menards - not just words. They need a written, legally binding
agreement signed by Menards, the city and the neighbors for a sound wall. rn 1988, the
noise issue was reviewed and a sound barrier recommended. she had plans from Menards to
reduce the noise and plans for storage sheds with roofs. A sound barrier would have to
be 28 feet tall in order to reduce the decibel level. None of this happened. rt has
been a long battle. They have tried to cooperate and have not had very good living
above Menards.
Ms. Modig asked if the sound wall was installed.
Ms. Matthews stated no. some of the other neighbors who did not object to the noise
live further away. They do not live right there.
Mr. �ob stated he is concerned about cutting 20 feet into the hill. only 40 feet
separates them now so that is half the distance. The few trees at the base of the hill
will be gone. with a 14-foot wall cut 20 feet into the hill, what will they be looking
at? This will not block out noise. He can hear voices from the parking lot and he
lives behind the mall. He works for a realtor and he knows what will happen to the
property values on Taylor street. Trees will help block some of the noise. As you go
down the hill, there are trees but, if cutting into the hill, it will be a disaster for
the people on Taylor street.
Mr. Newman stated he wanted to address the concerns about the 40-foot distance being
reduced to 20 feet. He asked staff to indicate where that is located.
Mr. Hickok stated the illustration shows 100 feet from the curb line to the rear
property line of the skywood Mall. 20 feet would be into the slope.
Mr. sielaff asked the reason for cutting 20 feet into the slope.
Mr. Hickok stated doing so would square off the proposed area behind the mall.
Mr. �ob stated 20 feet will be a big difference. what assurances to the neighborhood
will they have to not want another 20 feet in the future? This is a concern. People
purchasing property in this area will be concerned as well.
Mr. Hickok stated the petitioner may be able to address that. The fence line as it is
proposed follows the contour at the base of the slope which brings them close to lining
up with the existing Menards corner. There is a cut in the curb line to the south and
this then follows a contour to match up with the existing fence at Menards.
Mr. sielaff asked if it could be closer to the building.
Mr. Hickok stated it could be closer to the building. The maneuverability of vehicles
may then be a concern.
Ms. Modig asked, if someone owns property that abuts the Menards or skywood Mall
property, is there anything that says they cannot build up to the hill to within a few
feet of the property line.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 19
Mr. Hickok stated, if the building could be supported structurally, they could do so.
The code would allow that.
Ms. Modig asked if they would need a special use permit to do that.
Mr. Hickok stated, if this special use permit were granted, the modification as
suggested would require them to go back through the process. There is a way to prevent
that from happening.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Mr. sielaff, to receive into the public record a
Petition to Request �enial in the �ranting of special use Permits, sP #96-02, 05, 06 and
07 to the said Property known as the Menards Property and skywood Mall Property as
described in the legal notices.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION by Ms. savage, seconded by Ms. Modig, to receive into the public record the
packet of information as provided by Ms. Mary Matthews, which included a letter from
Minnesota Pollution control Agency dated 7/7/88, drawings, and letters from city staff.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. zemke stated he lives on the edge of one of the ravines that Ms. Matthews talked
about. rn the summertime, he wakes up on weekends to the stacking of lumber and the
conversations that are going on at Menards. rn the winter, he can see into the Menards
lot. An additional six feet of fence will not do anything. They will still be able to
look directly down into the lot. The height of the fence would have to be phenomenal to
block out the view and the sound. rf you allow the proposal to go through, it will be
the same all the way down the block. Everyone will be looking into the lumber yard.
There will be noise that will go right up the hill.
Mr. Nunemaker stated he is not adjacent to the properties. He is asking about the
position he would be in as a tenant of the skywood Mall office complex. They have
maintained an office in that building since 1984 and have operated without a lease for
the past three or four years. He represents the Midland co-op credit union. This issue
came up last month at their meeting when they learned of the proposal for Menards to
purchase the property and demolish the office complex. without a lease, where do they
stand as tenants? rf everything is granted, how much time would the tenants have to
look for other office space or what are the plans to provide something for them? They
have been told a space would be provided. They don't know what it would be like to have
an office in the front of the skywood Mall and traffic and lumber loading to the rear.
Mr. Newman stated this is a question the Planning commission cannot answer. This would
best be answered by the owner of the building. The request is scheduled to go to the
city council on May 6. rf they take final action that night, that would conclude the
city's involvement. The city would need to review the applications for building
permits, etc. rt then becomes a function of how quickly the owner wishes to proceed.
rt could move rather quickly.
Mr. Bliss asked how far south the proposed fence would go.
Mr. Hickok stated the new fence would extend to the corner of the skywood Mall where it
meets the Kelly rnn and extend toward the hillside. The fence would not be behind the
Kelly Inn.
Mr. Bliss asked if semis would be unloading that far south.
Mr. colby stated yes.
Mr. Bliss stated he drives by there to go to work. He sees a lot of trash blowing
around. They clear it a couple times a year. Has this issue been addressed in the
past?
Mr. Hickok stated yes, this issue has been addressed.
Mr. Kempe stated he can hear the noise from Menards and he is on the east side of the
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 20
street. They can also hear the signals on the forklifts when they are backing up. rn
the summer, this goes on until 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. He does not want to hear any more of
it. rt appears to him that, if they are piling things on top of the fences that they
have now, they are not a good neighbor now. They are not taking care of the fence now.
Mr. Parizek stated he has been listening to all of the problems that have come up from
Menards. one of the things that concerns him is the traffic flow. He has lived there
for 31 years. He has nearly gotten run over a number of times at the stoplight area
where they turn in and out of Menards. There are stop signs and people don't see them.
Also, the new exit on the west side where the old ATM machine was located is another
area where customers do not want to stop. rn the wintertime, it is dangerous. He is
not against the proposal per se, but he would like to have some these concerns
addressed. He did not know who would take care of the traffic problems.
Ms. Matthews stated, in the agreement drawn up with the city 22 years ago, they agreed
to the construction of a sound wall, lights that would shine down, and agreed that
Menards would not extend their hours. rf the hours were expanded or noise intensified,
it was to be reviewed. This did not happen. she feels that the residents did not get a
fair shake.
Mr. �elich stated, when they built their house, he understood there would be a 75 foot
buffer between the house and the mall building. They have talked about cutting into the
bank, building a wall and expanding the property.
Ms. Engebretson stated she has lived here for 32 years. rf Menards were to take over
the mall, what is to say in a few years, if the �ake Pointe property is developed and
the Kelly rnn moved there, that the neighborhood could be looking at a lumber yard
expanding across the whole area. she never thought she would live above a lumber yard.
she did not think anyone could look 10 years out. There is no guarantee that the Kelly
rnn will stay if they have an opportunity to move to a more viable situation. �ranting
these special use permits could create further expansion and further deterioration.
Mr. Malkerson thanked the Planning commission and the public. The meeting was a good
discussion of the issues. He tried to take verbatim notes to address some of the issues
raised. He could talk about noise standards. There are state noise standards. The
MPCA has been out and their report showed there was compliance with the guidelines of
the state and city. There was a question that, if the project is approved and there is
cutting into the hill, could they cut into the hill further. The answer is no, they
cannot because that would part of the approved conditions of the plans. Perhaps staff
would give residents an open space easement or some other sort of conservation easement
over the balance to assure that this could not happen. There are other things they
could address but, instead of doing that, he asked that they have an opportunity to come
back to see where they are and answer any questions. He has not seen all of the
information that was submitted at the meeting. rf the Planning commission's inclination
is to deny the request, they will not ask for a continuance. They do not want to go
through this again. rf there is dialogue that they can help with or conditions
discussed that they can respond to, that is the direction they would like to take.
Mr. Newman stated he was concerned that, if he is given a chance to respond, then others
will also want to do so. within some limitation, he will provide a chance to respond if
necessary and he asks that the remarks be very brief. He will also give the neighbors
the same amount of time collectively to respond.
MOTION by Mr. sielaff, seconded by Mr. saba, to close the public hearing.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 10:45 P.M.
5. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #96-02, BY MENARD,
INC.:
Per section 205.15.O1.c.(8) of the Fridley city code, to allow unscreened
exterior storage of materials and equipment, generally located at 5207 central
Avenue N.E. (presently the skywood Mall property).
6. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SP #96-07, BY MENARD,
INC.:
Per section 205.15.O1.c.(3) of the Fridley city code, to allow agencies selling
or displaying recreational vehicles, boats, and marine equipment, machinery,
manufactured homes, or other similar enterprises having merchandise in the open
and not within an enclosed structure, generally located at 5207 central Avenue
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 21
N.E. (presently the skywood Mall property).
7. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, #96-06, BY MENARD, INC.:
Per section 205.15.O1.c.(8) of the Fridley city code, to allow unscreened
exterior stora9e of materials and equipment, generally located at 965 - 53rd
Avenue N.E. (the Menards property).
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. Modig, to waive the reading of the public hearing
notices, to conduct the three public hearings simultaneously, and to open the public
hearing to consider special use Permit requests, sP #96-02, #96-07, and #96-06.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AT 10:47 P.M.
Mr. Newman stated he would like to have the record reflect that all of the comments and
documents submitted, and all of the record that was made as part of the public hearing
for special use Permit, #96-05, be incorporated by reference into these other three
public hearings. rf anyone has an objection to this, please indicate so.
No one present at the meeting expressed an objection.
Mr. Hickok showed photos of the skywood Mall site. The proposal is to have the tenants
moved to the front of buildings. staff anticipates the front face will be modified for
those tenants who will be located to the front of the center. Behind the mall is a
severe slope between the property and the residential area. The slope is quite open and
would require additional vegetation for screening purposes.
Mr. Hickok stated special use Permit, sP #96-02, deals with the unscreened exterior
storage of materials and equipment at the skywood Mall. As a proposal comes in, staff
meets with the developers and recommends what the petitioner must do to move the process
forward and point out what steps are involved. rt does take a full analysis by staff to
come to a determination and provide a recommendation. rn the existing Menards building
there is a portion along the southern edge of the building that is now interior storage
space. He believed it was Menards intent to modify some of the internal space by moving
that internal storage to the mall. The space gained inside the skywood Mall is not
necessarily to house what had been stored in the rear yard. rt is Menards intent to
modify the existing internal print of the building into a retail space.
Mr. Hickok stated topography is an issue. There is a slope of 1 to 2.2 feet for every
one foot of vertical dimension. rn other words, there is about 50 feet of elevation in
about 110 feet. There is a lack of ability to successfully screen the view of outdoor
materials and outdoor merchandise from adjacent properties. The petitioner is proposing
the removal of an existing office complex to be used for outdoor storage. A similar
request had come to the assessor's attention some years ago. The assessor did respond
that there is a significant difference in tax generation from outdoor storage to
office/internal retail space. There is no opportunity for rear inventory receiving for
the remaining tenants. The plan is to put tenants toward the front. staff is concerned
that receiving for those tenants would be in the front of the facility in the
circulation route also used by customers. Another concern is increased noise in terms
of the rear retail use. staff has limited information regarding the use of the outdoor
storage area. The plan is a concept at this time. staff has limited information about
the new building elevation including customer circulation for the area behind the mall.
Mr. Hickok stated staff recommends denial of special use permit, sP #96-02, due to the
findings that the request will cause an increase in noise, light and glare,
unsi ghtliness of materials from the public right-of-way and adjacent properties,
conflicts with physically challenged individuals on the site, compromised safety of
individuals and materials, compromised enjoyment of surrounding property, aesthetic
decline associated with outdoor unscreened storage/display and the decreased tax base as
a result of removing the office space and replacing it with outdoor storage.
Mr. Hickok stated staff recommends denial of special use permit, sP #96-07, due to the
findings that the request will cause an increase in noise, light and glare,
unsi ghtliness of materials from the public right-of-way and adjacent properties,
conflicts with physically challenged individuals on the site, compromised safety of
individuals and materials, compromised enjoyment of surrounding property, aesthetic
decline associated with outdoor unscreened storage/display and the decreased tax base as
a result of removing the office space and replacing it with outdoor storage.
Mr. Hickok stated special use permit, sP #96-06, deals with unscreened storage of
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 22
materials and equipment that can be seen from the public right-of-way or adjacent
properties. The issues with the Menards are much like those of the skywood Mall
property including topography and the lack of ability to screen the view from adjacent
properties, increased noise in the rear, limited information about the use of the rear
yard storage area, and limited information regarding the rear building elevation and
customer circulation. Also, there is a requirement for a gate around a petroleum
pipeline that exists between the properties. rn our discussions, staff asked for
information about building over a gasoline pipeline. our experience has been that
pipeline companies do aerial inspections and they do not like landscape materials or
anything of the like over 18 inches high because of the shadows that are cast. staff is
concerned about surrounding a pipeline with a gate, any potential hazards that may be
caused by interruption and the ability to get in to that pipeline. The attorney for
Menards responded that they are comfortable with the stipulations in their easement
agreement and feel that what they are doing would not be in conflict with what they are
doing between the two properties.
Mr. Hickok stated staff recommends denial of special use permit, sP #96-06, due to the
potential of limiting access to physically challenged individuals a potential for
compromised safety of individuals and the materials stored/displayed, and the potential
of aesthetic decline caused by the outside displays. The petitioner does have the
alternative of integrating the sales items into their operation in a manner that is
consistent with the other retailers.
Ms. Modig stated staff is recommending denial for the same reasons.
Mr. Hickok stated this was correct. rf the Planning commission chooses to recommend
approval of any or all of the special use permits, they may want to table the issue in
order to staff to lay out mitigating stipulations to address the issues outlined and
discussed.
Mr. saba asked how they could do that with the existing track record. rs there any way
to enforce?
Mr. Newman stated he thought the answer is that you have those options be it financial
arrangements to secure performance as well as a host of other options. staff does not
know why they did not execute the original agreement.
Mr. sielaff stated he would like to summarize. As he sees it, there are those items
that are existing and those proposed. sP #96-02 is dealing with what is proposed.
Mr. Hickok stated sP #96-02 deals with the skywood Mall and anything that is not
screened and cannot be viewed from the adjacent properties. This is only outside. sP
#96-07 also deals with merchandise that is outside at the skywood Mall property.
Mr. sielaff stated that sP #96-05 deals with outside merchandise at the current Menards
and sP #96-06 deals with outside storage at the current Menards.
Ms. Modig asked if there was some way to separate the items stored inside the fence from
those items stored outside the fence. rt seems to be two different issues.
Mr. Hickok stated they can do so through stipulations to identify what standards would
be applied to what materials.
Mr. Newman stated, if the Planning commission were inclined to recommend approval, staff
could have time to come up with stipulations. staff could have one set of stipulations
that would apply to all four requests.
Mr. Newman stated the public testimony received as part of the previous public hearing
will be incorporated into this public hearing by reference. He asked if anyone from the
public had any additional comments or any additional information to provide.
No additional comments were received from the public.
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. savage, to close the three public hearings.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 11:10 P.M.
Ms. savage stated her initial reaction is to recommend denial of the requests for a
number of reasons. First, there is simply an incompatible use with a lumber yard and a
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 23
residential area. There were problems earlier. rn the late 1980's, this was in front
of the Appeals commission when the sound barrier issue was brought up. There have been
problems since the 1960's. At this point, she sees the problems as being compounded by
granting the special use permits. second, she has a lot of concern about the precedent
for outdoor display. The "big box" retail operations have all expressed an interest in
having outdoor display and the city has declined. rf this is granted, the city will
have other requests. This is not good for the city.
Mr. saba stated he would be inclined to vote the same way for those same reasons as well
as others. He is concerned about Menards' past performance or lack of same in dealing
with the city as well as the neighbors. There has been a battle to enforce past
ag reements, stipulations, and neighborhood concerns. while he likes Menards and shops
there, he is reluctant to go behind the store. He would hope any improvements they make
would address that situation. He cannot help but feel there could be a meeting with the
neighbors and staff regarding the issues and come back with a revised plan. He ag rees
that the intended use does not seem compatible with the adjacent neighborhood. They
could come up with another plan with the storage closer to r-694 area. He did not know
what the prime layout of that area would be but he does not agree that the proposal fits
into a mall area. Regarding an agreement, he would like to see that in any additional
proposal brought before the Planning commission. He would be inclined to vote against
the proposals.
Ms. Modig stated, having seen what Menards did with their store in st. cloud and the
difference it made in the area, she would be inclined not to do anything that would
eliminate the possibility that this could happen here. For those of us living in the
city, we have seen how that area is deteriorating and, she thought, they were losing a
lot of potential people because of what is happening there. she would like to see a
separation of what is outside the fence area from inside the fence area. The city has
told others what we expect them to do. The city did not say they could not store
material outside in a fenced area. The city told them how high they could store stuff
in the fenced area and allowed one business to have a special use permit until they
constructed a garden area. she did not think they could do that much less for Menards.
rt is unfortunate that any of this was ever built there but the fact is that it is
there and, if there is anything the city can do to enhance it to make it better, we
should do that. You cannot hide a lumber yard from the neighbors. she would be
inclined to table the requests, have the petitioners meet with staff and the nei ghbor-
hood, and see if some of these issues can be resolved. rt would be a positive thing for
the area and for the city. rt is not everyone's idea to have a lumber yard in their
backyard, but it is there and something needs to be done to make it a better area. she
is concerned about the previous lack of response to the sound wall. she would like to
table these items and have staff work with the petitioners and representation from the
neighborhood to come up with something that would be positive for all.
Mr. sielaff stated, regarding the issue of storing merchandise outside, historically the
city has not allowed. He does not want to diverge from that. This is something the
city should not encourage. Another issue is the outside storage of unscreened material.
They need to have it screened. He is inclined to recommend denial of the special use
permits. Another issue is the noise and nuisance conditions in that storage area. He
did not think they could do anything about the existing storage area, but it should be
screened. rn the proposed area behind the mall, he is inclined to think there should be
no storage at all. He does not like the idea that the wall is being placed 20 feet back
and that it could potentially go back another 20 feet. He is inclined to say no storage
should be allowed outside the mall, only inside. As the requests are laid out now, he
would be inclined to recommend denial.
Mr. Newman stated, in reading the staff report, he thought this might be an opportunity.
The uses are incompatible. rf the city council had to do it over, the zoning would
probably be different. But, there is outside storage and outside merchandising and an
area that does not provide the kind of appearance the city wants for the area. rn
driving down central Avenue, he was surprised by the number of vacant buildings. He is
aware of some of the financial concerns of the owners of the skywood Mdll. There is a
history of tension between the neighbors and Menards, but there is an opportunity from
which the city can benefit. He is inclined to table these requests if the parties could
work together. The petitioner seems willing to work and the neighbors are willing to
work to make it better.
Mr. Newman stated some of his concerns include the issue of lighting. �owncast lighting
can be installed so that the glare does not impact the neighbors. They cannot control
the Kelly rnn because that is outside this request, but this could be an improvement at
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 24
the skywood Mall and Menards properties. Another issue is noise. shrubbery may dampen
sound. other alternatives including restricting the hours of operation of delivery
trucks and forklifts. He would like to limit the height of yard storage. Mr. colby
stated storage is to the height of a forklift. Mr. Newman did not know how hi gh that
was, but he does not want storage any higher than the fence. He would limit the outside
merchandise display. He thought it was ugly out there. The city has a concern about
precedent in retail areas and, he thought the distinction staff can make is that now
they have a lot of nonconforming use that permits them to do outside storage without
restriction. rf staff allows them to expand, we can restrict this outside storage.
That might distinguish this from some of the other retailers. There was a concern about
drainage that needs to be addressed. on the issue of enforcement, unfortunately Mr.
colby's predecessors have not set a good track record. He suspected that an agreement
could be reached that could be enforceable and the city Attorney could give assurances
to the city council that the city could enforce. He is concerned about where they are
proposing to cut into the hill and also that what was a 14-foot fence no longer becomes
a 14-foot fence and perhaps there are some areas where they may need to raise the height
of that fence so that the neighbors can have the same kind of benefit. There is concern
about expansion. Mr. Malkerson proposed the possibility of a conservation easement.
Mr. Newman was first inclined to restrict expansion by requiring an additional special
use permit. rf it is done by easement, they cannot expand even if the city wanted to
give them a special use permit. That may be an attractive way to accomplish this.
There is concern about trash and traffic. Traffic is not Menards problem but he can
appreciate the concerns the neighbors have if people are not stopping for stop signs.
He thought the city could do something through enforcement. staff raised a very good
concern about pipelines. This is a private contractual arrangement with the property
owner and the holder of the pipeline. To a large degree, if the holder is not concerned
about it, he was not sure they should be concerned. The city should verify the fact
that they are comfortable with what is being proposed.
Mr. Newman stated there is a whole host of issues there. rf the neighbors and Menards
got together with the help of staff, they could come up with some reasonable compromises
recognizing there will be some instances where people will not be totally happy. He
thought they could improve on the situation. He agrees with Ms. Modig that this would
merit tabling these requests to give everyone an opportunity to see if they can work
together.
Mr. sielaff asked Mr. Newman if there may not be a need for special use permits.
Mr. Newman stated special use permits are needed, but they could write out conditions to
address a number of the concerns.
Mr. sielaff stated two requests are for unscreened outside storage so they could screen
it but not need the permit.
Mr. Newman stated this is something they have now. He would have difficulty if the city
continues to allow unscreened outside storage in front of the skywood Mall. He did not
think they need to expand it. Menards is not going to be using that as a store front
for their facility. He did not know if the other users would be using that for part of
their retail. Perhaps the city can go so far as to get Menards to curtail some of the
outside storage from their present level.
Mr. sielaff asked, if they put a 14-foot wall on the existing facility in the back,
would that constitute screened storage.
Mr. Newman stated it would be screened storage. But there would still be the display of
outdoor merchandise.
Mr. sielaff stated his view is that they already have storage in back. His feeling is
that he does not want to improve on what they have but then the city doesn't want to
make it worse by adding additional storage behind the mall facility.
Mr. Newman stated his guess is that Menards is saying they need additional space in
order to compete.
Ms. savage stated, if the requests are tabled, it would mean that some of these issues
and concerns are addressed and that could improve the current situation.
Mr. Newman asked if Mr. Malkerson would like to address the subject of tabling action on
the requests.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1996 PAGE 25
Mr. Malkerson stated he thought there was an opportunity to work. They need to know the
concerns in order to address those concerns. They are willing to work with staff and
the neighborhood. He would also prefer the request be tabled because there was much
information provided that was not available before. There is much to be worked out.
Ms. Matthews stated she would go along with tabling because they worked it out once
before.
Mr. Newman suggested consideration of these items be tabled until the next meeting.
Mr. colby suggested delaying for one month to be sure the petitioners are ready.
MOTION by Ms. Modig, seconded by Mr. saba, to table consideration of special use Permit
requests sP #96-05, sP #96-02, sP #96-07, and sP #96-08, subject to the call of the
chai r.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
8. RECEIVE THE MINUTES OF THE PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 4, 1996
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. savage, to receive the minutes of the Parks &
Recreation commission meeting of March 4, 1996.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
9. RECEIVE THE MINUTES OF THE APPEALS COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 13, 1996
MOTION by Ms. savage, seconded by Ms. Modig, to receive the minutes of the Appeals
commission meeting of March 13, 1996.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Mr. saba, seconded by Ms. Modig, to adjourn the meeting.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON NEWMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
AND THE APRIL 3, 1996, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:37 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
�avonn Cooper
Recording secretary