PR 03/22/1976 - 31208. �
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MAF�i 22, 197f
MF.N�E.RS PRESENTs Bob Petersan, Shirley Caldwell, Dave Harris, Jan Seeger.
� i�arvey Wagar
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�RS PRESIIVT: D�an Huff - Acting Director, Parks and Recreation Departrnent
Chuck Kasick - City of FYidley, S�n�x Sports Coordinator
�ally Cag1e - I�7V
Leoi�ard Nloore, Jr. - Riverview Heights Concerned Action Group
Judi Jani:ak - Neighborl�ood group for n�ni.ng gark
Chairn1an Petexson called the meeting to order at 7:40 p.m.
APPItOVAL OF MINLTrFS QF ��BRI7ARY 23, 1976 PARKS AND RECREATION CQN�'LZSSION
MEET'ING:
MaTION by Caldwell, secor�led by Wagar, to approve the minutes as written.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
DISCUSSION �N PROPQSED PROGRAM AND RATE INCRE�SES FOR SUN�+IER RECREATIONAL
PROGRFIM,S :
Dan fiuLf informed the Ccnmissioners that the Spring Newsl�tter and the Spring
Parks and.Recreation Bulletin were presently at the printers and should be
avail�Ie by the end of the week. In these are included the most up-to-date
i.nfornnation on the programs as possible. He said that therefore, if there
��re to be any changes in the fees, it would have to be noted in4nediately so
the bulletin could be changed. He explained that after a tYiorough review by
Janet Konzak, Ac�ninistrative Assistant, ar�d Bruce Nelson, Ad[ninistrative Aide,
it was suggested that because of increased costs, especially in maintenance,
the tees should be raised.
Mr. Peterson sa:id that changing the entire rate schedule was rather a major
it�n, and he felt the Cannission should have beP-n included in making any
decisions regarding fees.
Jr. Huff agreed and said that he felt this should have been done about six
weeks ago so that evexyone could have had a look at it ancl still have had
time to put the brochure together. He p�inted out that the bulletin had to
be finished last week ar�d he had to give a recarmendation to the City Manager
a w�eek ago Friday. It was dete�ni.ned the fees wc�uld have to be raised an
average of $75 per team for softball to be enti.rely self-supporting.
Mr. Wagar rioted that girls' softball was not mentioned, ax�d Mr. Peterson said
the Qrnmission has already c�tered into an agreenent with the FYSA to zun the
girls' softlaall program. �
PARKS AND RDCRFATION C'C1N�II�SIC�1 P��TIlVG OF N�3-I 22, 1976 - PAGE 2 .
Dr. I�iu.ff felt the only problens in girls' softball concexned the �ires. �
Mr. Kasick said they were aware of those problans and were trying to el�minate
then. He said they w�ere trying to train the referees and qualify then, and
get the right ones inta the right areas. Dr. Huff said that as he understc�od
itt all they wpxe going t�o do is hi.re the chief wYx� will make out the schedules
for the imnpixes. He sa.id that this is the only money that wt�uld be invested
for administrative �. He ccnmented that they wexe rwt planning to raise
any fees. �
Mr. Peterson said that he felt that program sY�uld run at coiLSiderably less
cost this year beca.use that ki.r�d of mr�ney isn't spent as far as the football
program or hor_]c.ey prograan is coricerned. He noted that they couldn't afford
tA pay for the arrount of time that goes into the�e associations through their
amateur boards.
Mr. Wagaz' questz�ned if all the softball teams were fran Fridley. Dr. Huff
answered that everybody on a team must either live or vrvrk in Fridley, except
in church te.ams .
Dave Harris noted tha� thexe was so�ne unha.ppiness regarding entry fees in 1975
ar�l �rior years. He sai.d the question that has always been rais�d is the fact
that fees are decided on the basis of a team arld not necessarily on l�w many
Yhours the facility is being used--the fees were being raised in a ratio to
rnunber of dollars spent and not Y�urs spent.
Dr. Huff explained that the fees were raised across the board, as he assi�ned
there was sane sort of rationale, but he had also ass�ned the teams played the
sa� amourit of games. Mr. Harris said he understood they play a varied am�unt
of games, and added that the fact also was that scane of the men's slaw-pitch
teams had sponsors and could raise money through the sponsorship program.
Mr. Peterson said it disturbed him ber.ause the City of Fridley had always
prided itself on providing services to its citizens at no more cost than what
is charged in other areas for similar programs. He said that last year Fridley
had a higher than average fee in ca�arison with other cities, and now it is
being rai.sed again. Dr. Huff assured him that they were still close to the
middle as this year most cities did have a raise. He noted that they had
checked with fourteen other car�rnanities ar�l found there was a range fran $110
to $190, so he felt they weren't out of line.
Mr. Peterson asked what the actual cost to Fridley was for each individual,
and Dr. Huff answered that excluding maintenance costs for the field, it
cost $2.26 to run the program for each individual who played on a team. This
m�ney w�ent for �trative costs, registrati.on costs and iunpires.
Mrs. Caldwell felt tl�e Parks and R�ecreation sYnuld be a sexuice to th�e canrn�-
nity, and primarily to the yotith. She felt the youth who needed the program
m4st might have a problen with the increased costs, and it would becane a
luxury far those who could affard it. She sai.d they were getting into a whQle
, new philosophy with this, and she w�uld like to see the fees eliminated for the �
youth, and certainly didn't want to see them raised. ��
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P�2KS AND RFCREATI�1 CX1A+�iISSION N��'IIVG QF �i 22, 1976 - PAGE 3
iiaxvey.Wagar asked where this money went,,and Mr. Peterson replied that it
goes back in genexal revenue. He added that the l�clget is being cut in
te�ms of what the Parks aryd Recreation w�uld like to do for the city, and when
all this is multiplied out there are quite a few thousand dollars that go back
int�o general revenue, whereas if that m4ney came ba�ck into Parks and Recreation
it would be passi.ble to get waYming houses arid ott�er equignerit that was needed.
Mr. Harris pointed out that there was a problem with a budget based on e�.xpected
revenue. He said the expeeted revenue is sometimes grea.ter and sanetimes less
than what is anticipated.
D�an Huff asked if the fees have L�een a regular Ca�mission itan that is
considered at a certain time of the year, arxl Mr. Wagar said it hadn't. Dave
Harris added that he did not approve of this way of doing it as they had r�
oontrol over the dollars spent.
Mr. Wagar asked what itan D- Playgrounr3s concexned, and Mrs. Caldwell sai.d
this concerned the activities that the youngsters participated in for a few
weeks in the s�mer, including art, T-ball, archery, etc. It involves children
�r-�inly in the four to eleven age group. She said that this program w�rked
well for mothexs eYrployed outside the hane and for people wh�o couldn't affard
to send their kids to camp, and r�ow it might be out of their range.
Dr. Huff noted that the user gaying the fee was the national trend in recreation
^ today. He said there has to be a naninal fee to have better contral over the "
�' progra�t. If there isn't a ncxni.na.l fee the people aren`t regular in attending.
He felt that $6.00 for a child receiving sup�YVised attent.ion five hpurs a
day, four days a�k; for s�: weeks was a reasonable price,
Mr. Peterson asked if there was any provision for a family wYx� couldn't afford
to pay anything, and Dr. Huff replied there was none that he }rnew of. Mr.
Peterson said it was necessary with every one of the volunteer organizations
that use the city facilities that if there is a family who cannot afford to
enroll theix children, they play and the association picks up the costs. Dr.
Huff said it w�uld be easy to do that if there was an association running the
program. Mr. Harris suggested that a base figure be set, ar�d anyone whp makes
less than a certain amount w�uld be able to participate free of chaYge arr3
the city w�uld PaY the costs.
Nh�. Peterson raised the question of el�m;natinq tt� youth Baseball. He said
there wpxe already twr� ex�ellent association-run programs� Little Lea.gue and
Bab� Ruth, which encanpassed the same age groups. He felt this was an area
that oould be cut which w�uld decrease the costs to the k.i.ds ar�d also save th.e
city money, including maintenance.
�Mr. Harris said he objected to the whole idea; not froan the standpoint that a
certain raise in fees isn't justified, but to the whole procedure as he felt
it was time the C7ouncil realizes all the inoaning money should be reviewoed
by the Carmission to plan the budget intelligently.
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P1�1�CS ANp �REATI�T pUNr�ISSICN N�.*rI1� OF MAI2�I 22, 1976 - PAGE 4
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MOTI+CA�1 by Dave Harris, secon�ded by Hazvey Wagar, _to reject the rate increases
for tY�e s�mmer recreational progr�ns unti.l the Parks and Recreation CamLission
has reaehed an agreem�nt with the city ac�ninistration to be allow�ed to use the
estim�ated fees that are retumed to the city in intelligent preparation of
their annual budget. Upon a voice vote, all v+�ting aye, the rmtion carried
unanimously.
NK7rIC7�T by Dave Harris, secanded by Jan Seeger, to maintain the saane fees as
allocated in 1975. Upan a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried
w�arrimously. ,
DISCUSSION ON SOFI'B�LL REGISTRATIC�N MEETING DATES:
Dr. Huff infonned the Carmissioners that the Nbnday arxi �esday leagues will
meet on March 30th, and the Wednesday an�d Thursday leagues will meet on April 1.
" Mr. Peterson asked if the city furnished the clerical help to register the adult
softball teams, and Dr. Huff replied it did. He added that last year the city
was paying for three people's time. Mr. Peterson said that speaking as an
ir�lividual C:cx�nission m�nber and as a city taxpayer, he couldn`t understand
why volunteer associations were formed for the youngsters when the adults, who
should be able to handle this thanselves, need the city's help in registration.
Mr. Peterson requested that the Adult Softball Program be put on the ager�cl.a for
the Sept�nbPx meeting.
DISCIJSSION ON CHURCH I�AGUES- "LI�1E OR WORK" RUlE:
Dr. Huff said that in 1975 a team rngnber �uld either have tu live or work in
the City of Fridley. The chairn�an af the church leagues has asked that the
Qomnissian consider changing the policy for the church leagues.
Mrs. Caldwell felt the philosophy behiu�d the rule was the important thing to
consider. Mr. Petexson no�ed that thexe w�uld be sane people who wouldn't be
able to play on a chourch team if there was such a rule.
Mrs. Seeger asked what was provided to the church leagues fran the city, and
Dr. Huff repl.ied the.balls, facilities, and umpires were provided. �
MCrrIC71V by Shirley Caldwell, secor�led bY Dave Harris, that the rule for church
leagues be cl�vlged to "live, wark, or be a m�snber of the church for which they
w�re playing." Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the mation carried unanim�usly.
DISCqSSION ON RESEFtVATIONS FOR IAQCE PARK PAVILLION:
Dr. Huff infonY►ed the menbers that in the gast it Hras the tradition that no
res�rvations be given for t,he paviZlion, but a peYmit had to be taken out to
have a picnic in the park. He suggested that a res�rvation procedure be ini-tiated.
Mr. Harris said the problen is that there are only tw�e].ve Sundays in June, July �
aixl August, •aryd felt the gavillion shauld be s,hared. He said resexvations might
cause ill feelir�gs.
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� PARIGS AND R�GREF,TION �NP�SSIQI�T MEETING OF MAR(�3 22, 1976 - PAGE 5
^ Mr. Peterson said he fel.t they had a metropolitan obligatian. If one af the
sexvice organizations or one of the ca�anies frcan witY�in the city wh�se
money, time and effort has gone into making the city what it is wants to use the
pavillion, they might run int�o a oonflict with a group fro�n South Minneapolis
which also wishes to use the pavillion. In the past the groups w�re primarily
frcm outside of Fridley.
Mrs. Ca.ldw�ell suggested having a fee charged to groups who wanted to reserve
the pavillion, with a highex fee for t.1�se rbot residing in the city. She said
she didn't favor contributions as that was too much like favoritisan.
Mr. Harris noted that the park costs the city m�ney, arr3 it is being a
"Godfather" to a large part af the metropolitan area. He said he suggested
scme time ag� requiring a permit to use the beach and park, but reaction was
not good. Mr. Peterson s�ggested that it might have scane merit frcdn another
standpoint, in �hat Loeke Pat-k in some areas is getting all the traffic it can
stand fran an ecological point of view arid it needs scane time to recuperate.
He said a fe� might help contxol this.
Hazvey Wagar ca►4nP.nted that there mi.ght be a probl�n with the reservation
systen in regards to enforcing the rule. He cited that if the gavillion was
resezved but another group frcan a different territory arrived with the inten-
tion of using it, there could be a probl�n.
� MC7rION by Harris, seconded by Jan Seeger, that Dan Huff obtain a staff recoarAnen-
�� dation on how to mpnito.r a reservation systgn to be presented at the April
meeting. Upon a voice, all voting aye, the motian carried unanimously.
Dr. Huff proposed the possibility of a fee for using the beach, but Mr. Harris
said that couldn't be done or the city wouldn't get any money frcan the o�unty.
He said the city receives $2,OOQ from the county to maintain the water quality
on the basis that the city would not exclude anyone living in Anoka Count,y
frcan using the beaches. He suggested the administration go back to the county
to inform them that the $2,000 was a 1968 figure ar�. the cost of chenicals has
inflated drastically since then, and perhaps the amount could be raised.
DISCUSSION ON RAISES FOR PLAYGROi7ND SUPERVISORS:
Dr. Huff�infonned the Ccx�nission that in the }�dget there was a raise for the
warming house attendants and playgrour�d sup�rvisors, fran $2.25 per hour to
$2.75 pex h�ur. The increase was given to the wannulg house attendants, but
naw in the process of trying tA hise the supervisors, the City Manager is
oonsidering not allawing the playground supervisors' salaries to be raised by
�that amount.
Mr. Peterson asked what the qualifications were for the sup�rvisors' positions,
and Dr. Huff replied that they had to be at least l7 years old or older, and
that references wexe checked so that mature and deperr3able people would be
selected. He said that a lot of than have been college students and many were
repeaters wYio have been doing this for several �ears, but it is r�ot in the job
� descriptian that the a�licant must be a o�llege student.
PIARKS AND REGREATION UCINMISSIQV MEETING OF -N�i 22, i9�6 - P� 6
Mr. Harris pointed out that thexe were people doing fantastic jobs who were ^
getting paid the same as people who weren't doing such a good job. Mr. Peterscm
aslfed if the job description could be rewritten to ensure the city would get
the better person, and Dr. Huff said it could.
A�ION by Dave Harris, seconded by Shirley Caldwell, to increase the hourly
wage for Playground Supervisors fram $2.25 to $2.75 an hour. Upon a voice
vote, all voting aye, the motion carried usu�nimously.
OLD BUSINE.SS - nfAMING PARKS:
Mr. Peterson informed.the Camiissioners that sane of the parks that were listed
as unnarried had actually already been designated "Natural History Areas" by
the City Council in 1974.
Dr. Huff sa.id that North Park has already bee-� uiwfficially named, anr�. the
Arthur Street ar�d Gardena Area was officially designated as Innsbruck Natural
History Area. The Dunes has been designa.ted the West Moore Iake Dunes Natural
History Area, and Rice Creek Estates property has been designated Rice Creek
Natural History Area. There are still seven pieces of property tha.t have not
been named by City Coun�cil action.
Mrs. Seeger told the m�nbexs that the Indian names frcan the Tribal Council
weren't available yet, but she had driven Mr. George Mitchell of the American
Tnr3ian Center to the p�rks to view than and obtain descriptions. This will �
be reviewed with an elder in the Indian Council and they will give the Cargn-ission
a brief outline on why they wc�uld choose a certain n,ame for a park. The list of
recan4nendations with a description of the name will be given to Mrs. Shaw, who
will type it up for the Cannission.
Mr. Harris said he felt his caranents regarding his reca�nendations for park
n�nes should have been part of the marto, and Mrs. Seeger added that she thought
the recca�mer�dations fran letters received fresn the league, the Springbrook
Nature Center Foundation and the residents shr�uld be i.ncluded.
Dr. Huff asked if there was an official policy for park naming, an� Mr•
Peterson repl.ied there was. He explained the Parks �d Recreation Cc�mission
makes recc�ner�dations which are se,�t to the City Council for official action,
and then it beccenes the name of the p�ark. Mr. Harris added that n�ning parks
after people is a problen as far as the city is concerned. He said he felt that
the mistake was made original.ly when parks were named after people in the
car�a�nity, because those wl�o do t,Yie �st work usually aren't recognized.
Mr. Peterson pointed out that this time the Cca�.ssion was considering names
ooncerning the Bi-Centenn.ial and our Irr3ian heritage. He said he didn't think
there has been an official policy within the Ceannission, pex se. Dr. Huff
_suggested that perhaps ttiere sY�ould be a_ sti.pulation against na�n.ing parks
after'people.
MOmION by Harris, seconded by Mrs. Seeger, that at t,he April meeting of the
Parks and Recreation Ca�m.ission, providing there is a full quonmi, action be
taken and the p�arks na¢r�ed, ar�7 that Shirley Caldwell be kept infonned of the �
�xi:ogress made. Upon a voice vate, all voting aye, the motion carried unanurously.
� PAittiS ArID R�GREATIC�I �SSICN �ING QF MA�i 22, 1976 - PAGE 7
iy � t �s� . ..,oe►• . . e+�
Mr. Juan Salas was scheduled to appear before the Catmission t,o discuss the
saccex changes, but was not present. � Dr. Huff informed the menbers that Nir.
Salas had requested times and facilities fran schcx�ls, ar�ci had been given gym
time.
The Ca►missioners agreed tha.t the soccer field at Locke Park sh4uld be .im�aroved
as it was badly in need of maintena�lce.
DISCUSSION �V BAND SHELTER - PARK LCX'ATION REC'UNfl�NOATION:
Dr. Huff told the Cc�mission that the barr3 Y� been palled and had oodne up with
the idea of a portable baix3 shelter rather than a pern�anent one. Mr. Peterson
said he wasn't in favor of th.at idea because a portable shelter wuuld not
serve the needs�of a lot of groups that the CcHmnission was concerned with when
this was first proposed.
Dr. Huff said that one group of b�-u�d manbers did not like the ideaF but felt
it was either this way or nothing. He said they were really concerned with
the location, and if a decision had to be made this year a portable would
solve the probl�n. Mr. Peterson said he felt the band was out of order on this.
He added that the Hiur�an Resources Carmission was in favor of the band shelter
as was proposed, which wauld be a pennanent structure for use by the fine
arts groups for plays, etc. .
Dr. Huff was concerned about the noise situation, arXl D�a.ve Harris said this
was the first consideration. Mrs. Seeger suqgested a sound study.be taken, and
Dr. Huff agreed.
OTf��It BUSINFSS :
Mr. Peterson thanked Shirley Caldv�ll on behalf of all the Cam►i.ssioners for
her services on the Parks and Recrea.tion Ca�anission, as this was f:he last
meeting she wauld be atter�ding as a menber.
Fi�. �� a.���ui�+►r
The meeting was adjourned by Cha��n Peterson at 10:27 p.m.
Respectfully sukmitted,
; � � \ L�t;e%L:�
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Sherri O'Donnell
� Reaording Secretary