PR 02/13/1980 - 31253�
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PARKS ANfl REGREATION CONINIISSION
MEETING
' FEBRUARY 13, 1980
CALL TO ORDER• �
Chairperson Hughes called the February 13, I980, Parks & Rec•xeation Commission
meeting to order at 7:32 p.m. �
IZOLL CALL •
Members Present: Barbara Hughes, Jan Seeger, Betty Mech, Dave Kondrick,
Dick Young ,
Members Absent: None
Qthers Present: Charles Boudreau, Parks & Recreation Director
Bob Barnette, Councilman-at-Large
APPROVAL OF DECEMBER 12, 1979, P4RKS & RECREATION COP'II�iISSION MINUTES:
^ M+DTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms..Mech, to approve the December 12, 1979,
, Parks & Recreation Commission minutes as written. Upon a voice voCe, all
voting aye, Chairperson Hughes declared th e motion carried unanimously.
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APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
The following additions were made to the agenda:
"9pringbrook Building Update" - Item E under Director's Report
"Recycling" - Item F under New Business
MOTION by Ms. Seeger, seconded by Mr. Kondrick, to approve the agenda as
amended. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye_, Chairperson Hughes declared the
motion carried unanimously.
I. DIRECTOR'S REPORT:
A. Winter Ice Maintenance
Dr. Boudreau stated that the Co�issioners had probably heard from the residents
of Fridley that the winter ice has been less then successful this year; however,
the last three weeks they have been able to maintain playable outdoor ice,
The temperatures have just not cooperated this ye<�r. They have not been able
to get their equipment onto the lake areas, because it has not been safe.
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PARKS � RECREATION CONIl�IISSZON MEETING,:FEBRUARY 13, 1980 -__ _ PAGE 2
Dr: Boucireau stated that quite a few people have been using the areas they do �
have. In an attendance report as of Feb. 3, the highest use areas were Locke
and Commons, then Ruth Circle and Hayes. One of the least used areas is the
Burlington Northern area�with 184 skaters with a warming house compared to �
Flanery that had 943, so Burlington Northern is not evem comparing. That was
important, because next year they may just keep the ice but suggest there not
be a warming house. Craig had to be closed because of a lack of warming house
attendants. .. .
nr. Boudreau stated he would hava a co�plete report at the end of the seasfln.
_Weather permitting, they would attempt to maintain the ice tTirough ttie �
month of February . � � �- �- ' ��� - -
Ms. Seeger stated that she has been checking Ruth Circle and she would say that
in the winter with the ice, the park is used more than in the summer. She felt
the fce in the neighborhood parks is very important, both recreational and'
hockey. The warming house at Ruth Cixcle is very irnportant as the kids don't
even go skating until the warming-house is open.
B. City/School Meetings
Dr. Boudreau stated that he did not know if the Commission members were aware
that once every 3-4 months the City Staff ineets with School District 14 staff
to hash out problem areas. They are in the process of trying to redesign that
City/School meeting format to include interested City Council members, interested �
School Board members. He was wondering if there was any interest on the part of
the Parks & Recreation Commission to attend these quarterly meetings. These �
meetings are generally luncheon meetings around 1�:45 - 1:30 p.m. He stated the
City will set up the next meeting sometime the second week in April and they
are planning for an early evening meeting to see �f they� c_an get more atten�lanGe,
It is a very constructive method of trying to correct some of the problems
facing the school and the City. _�
The Commission members did express an interest in attending these meetings,
aut most af them could not attend unless these meetings were in the evening.
Ms. Hughes asked Mr. Boudreau to inform the members of these meetings, and they
would arrange to have at least one person in attendance on a rotating basis.
C. MRPA (Minnesota Recreation � Park Assoc., Inc.) Communication
Dr. Boudreau stated the Commissioners had received a copy of a letter asking
for the Parks & Recreation Commission to get involved in the 1980 Legislative
Committee of the MRPA. If the Commission feels this is a valuable input to
the state. association, they may want to have a Co�nission member serve on that
Committee. He stated this is just beginning in the State of Minnesota where
the state organization is more or less monitoring and trying to push for
favorable legislation for the recreational profession. Many ather states have
a lobbyist who lobbies strictly for recreation and park legislation.
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� PARKS & RECREATIUN COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 13,'1980 -__ PAGE 3
Mr. Kondrick stated he would be interested in serving on that co�ittee.
Ms. Hughes appointed Mr. Kondrick to represent the Commission and attend these
meetings. .
D. Possible Recreation Center Committee
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Dr. Boudreau stated they had gotten very favorable reaction �to the proposed �
park program for Fridley Co�unity Park at 69th and University. He has met ��
with sevexal groups, aad they have been successful in obtaining a$5,000 cash
donation from FYSA toward the development. They have also been successful in
obtaining $60,000 from the VFW toward the development of the field areas. That
will be coming to the City in the amount of $12,000 per year for five years.
For that $60,000, one of the fields will be named the VFW Field. That presenta-
tion will be made to City Council on Feb. 25.
Dr. Boudreau stated he thinks it has now come to the point where he would like
this Commission to take an active part in possibly establishing a Recreation
Center Committee--a citizens' committee of 7-10 people active in the community
who would like to see a recreation center. He has three people who have expressed
interes.t in serving. They are willing to help generate the financial backing
and also the community interest,that will be needed to come up with the total
� picture--the athletic area and the recreation iacility. He would be happy to
have any comments the Commission might have on the make-up of this committee.
Mr. Young stated that an organization such as the VFW that is contributing such
a large amount should be invited to have someone on that committee.
Dr. Boudreau stated he would like to issue an invitation to all organizations
in the city and to any other inter�sted citizens, possibly through the weekly
Recreation Report.
Mr. Young stated he felt the com�ittee should have as wide u view as possible
by having a youth representative, representation from the Fridley Ministerial
Association, representation from the Chamber of Com�►erce, senior citizens, etc.,
as that is the way to meet all the needs af the people.
Ms. Hughes asked if the Commission agreed that there is a need and an interest
and that the Recreation Center Committee is a desirable approach to the project2
The Commissioners concurred with the idea of establishing a Recreation Center
Comc�ittee.
Dr. Boudreau stated that: he would envision this conunittee being chaired by a
" citizen, not connected with City Hall in any way, and �aould be strictly a
citizens' committee that would look into the facts, financing, and seeing if
this is what the residents of Fridley really want. He saw it as really being
an extension of what they started two years ago with the Neighborhood Park
� Comrnittees. He would like to go back to these same people to see if they are
� interested in this type of project.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRU,ARY 13, 1980 - PAGE 4
_ MOTION BY MR. KONDRICK, SECONDED BY MR. YOUNG, TO RECONIMEND TO CITY COUNCIL,
THROUGH PLANNING COMMISSION, THAT A CITIZENS' COMMITTEE BE ESTABLISHED TO
EXPLORE ALL POSSIBILITIES FOR A FRIDLEY RECREATION CENTER AT THE FRIDLEY
COMMtJNITY PARK. .
Ms. Hughes stated the Coumission would like to have a wide range of representa-
tion on this c�mnittee to reflect interest and population groups within the
City; for example, the youth, senior citizens, Lions C1ub, VFW, American Legion,
Riwanis, Fridley Ministerial Assoc., Ch,amber of Commerce, and School District.l4.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON HUGHES DECLARED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Ms. Hughes asked the Commission members to write down specific groups tt�ey,
feel should be represented on the commiCtee. If the City Council approves the
Commission's reco�endation for a citizens' committee, they can ehen come up
with a structured type of committee and try to write a charge for the cou�nittee
in terms of needs assessment, tyge of facility, etc. __ , -
Ms. Seeger and Mr. Young agreed to work with Ms. Hughes on coming up with a
charge for the committee if approved by City Council.
8. Sprfngbrook Building Update
Dr. Boudreau stated it was out for bids, and the bids should be in so�netime
near the end of February and then they will be open publicly.
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" Ms. Hughes asked who made the final approval on the bidding documents and the __
plans? '
Dr. Boudreau stated that it all went thzough City Council with the autharity to
receive bids:�-�-Mr. Boardman, because he has training in the architectural field,
along with Irtr: St. �lair,�went over the plans and bidding documents in detail.
Ms. Hughes stated it should be recorded that the Parks & Recreation Commission
did not have any input into the final stages of the building plans or the
bidding documents. ,
Dr. Boudreau stated, however, that the Commis$ion, along with Springbrook
Nature Center Foundation, was kept abreast of the plans. He stated the way
they have bid the facility is to try to get the shell built with as much space
as possible, using volunteer groups to help with interior walls, etc.
II. CHAIRPERSON'S REPORT:
A. City Band & Orchestra Concert
Ms.'Hughes stated that last Sunday, she attended the City Bank & Orchestra
concert as a representative of the Parks & Recreation Commission. The City
does fund these two activities, and they were very complimentary of the City's
support.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 13Z 1980 - PAGE 5
Ms.�Hughes stated the band was 19 years old. It is a very good recreation for
people and they do perform some civic activities, such as the 45'er Days and
these kinds of concerts.
B. "Friends & Neighbors"
Ms. Hughes stated she is hosting a shaw on Cable TV called "Friends & Neighbors".
She had Connie McMillion on and this will be aired in about two week$. She
stated Ms. McMillion was an absolutely super person, who did,;a great job in
selling the recreation program. Ms. McMillion may be interested in taping some
craft classes that could be available at the library.
C. Springbrook Nature Center Foundation Contract
Ms. Hughes stated that at one of the Planning Com�►ission meetings where they
had received the Springbrook Nature Center Faundation report, th,ere were
questions and concerns from some of the members about whether ar not it was
appropriate for Springbrook to indicate they were ready to turn the facility
over to the City. She was not at that Planning Commission meeting and was not
able to convey to them at that meeting that it was her impression that the Parks
& Recreation Committee was not upset about the City taking title to the facility
and integrating it into the Fridley park system and that, indeed, it would be
appropriate. At the next meeting, she did tell them, and the Planning Commission
now understands that th� Parks & Recreation Commission does not see any problem
with it.
III. NEW BUSINESS•
A. Councilman-At-Large, Bob Barnette
Mr. Barnette stated that
This all goes back to the
he had not lost interest,
he wa.s here to speak about Springbrook Nature Center.
old Springbrook/golf course situatibn. He stated
but, in fact, had gained interest in it.
H� stated that at the Jan. 9, 1980, Planning Commission meeting, the Planning
Co�mission discussed the letter from Springbrook Nature Center Foundation, in
which Springbrook stated they have chosen to discontinue their lease with the
City. Springbrook's five-year lease expires this mor.th and they are not going
to renew their lease with the City. That turns the responsibility of the park
and the building and any operation and maintenance back to the City. He
referred to the Jaxi. 23, 1980, Planning Commission minutes, first page, where
Ms. Hughes stated that "the Park Commission was not upset because tYce Foundation
had not renewed their contract. The Commission felt what was set out to do by
the Springbrook Park Foundation had been accomplished and the City shotild take
over the park at this point." He asked the Commission members if they agreed
with that statement?
The Coumnission members stated they did agree with Ms. Hughes' statement.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 13, 1980 - PAGE 6
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Mr. Barnette asked the Co�ission if they had any idea of what it is going to
cost the City to operate and maintain the park once the building is built?
He assumed it would have.Co be a park budget item for the operation of the
nature center.
Dr. Boudreau agreed that it would most likely be part of the Park, Recreation,
and Natural Resources budget.
Ms. Hughes stated that the Cougnission had not developed any�kind of budgets
on that;;in fact, Mr. Bamette should be aware that the Commission has very
little input into the budget process and the way it is handled within the City.
Mr. Barnette stated he has kept all the information on this since 1969. In a
public hearing back in 1974, the question was asked of the Naturalist of Wood-
lake Nature Center: "What did it cost Richfield in 1973 to operate Woodlake?"
His answer in the minutes was th�t it cost the City of Richfield $75,OQ0 a
year to operate and maintain Woodlake, which had a very minimal building.
Mr. Barnette stated he is estimating, with a better building and nicer park,
that it will cost the City of Fridley $150-200,000 to maintain Springbrook
Nature Center. :
Mr. Barnette stated that Springbrook is a nice nature center and he is not
knocking that. But, now they have reached another point where the Springbrook
Nature Center Foundation is opting to get out for many reasons, money being
Che major consideration. �
Ms. Hughes pointed out that Mr. St. Clair, City Naturalist, is already in the
budget and they are already doing same programming at the Nature Center. She
would assume that the $75,000 for Woodlake included those kinds of costs. If
they were looking at additional.costs to operate the nature center over and
above what the City is already putting in, she was sure they were not talking
about $75,000 or even more than that.
Mr. Barnette stated that in the referendum back in 1974,�he thought the taxpayer
was given a bill of goods that this was going to be a tax-free, no-Fridley-
monies-spent, type of project. It was a 2-1 vote for the nature center. The
impression he got from people and his impression was that they were going to
get something for nothing and this is not happening. Now the City is involved
in the Fridley Community Park which is a big operation, and when is the tax-
payer going to say that they have had enough?
Ms. Seeger stated that, first of a11, Springbrook has done what they said they
would do. The only thing they haven't done is put the building up. She
really felt that what they came up with was good and of high quality. The.
Foundatian is still in existence and will be available as volunteers and as
a resource, so the anly thing that has changed is that their lease is up. .
The City of Fridley is not being asked, do they want a recreation center for a .
lot of money and do they want a building? The Nature Center was an issue asked
and, as a park commissioner, at least she knew what direction the citizens
asked her to go. With the recreation center, they are hoping, but haven't n
been asked.
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� PARKS & RECREATION CO2rIl�IISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY t3, 1980 - PAGE 7
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Ms.. Hughes asked Dr. Boudreau what kinds of arrangements have been made on
Mr. St. Clair's time iq working at the nature center and charges to the
Foundation in terms of what Fridley had done there?
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Dr. Boudreau stated that anything the City does to improve that area according
to the lease until it expires must be reimbursed to the City of Fridley for
the time spent. However, in that area they have done nothing. That area is used as
an available resaurce for programming. There is nothing in the lea�e that
says they cannot use the area for active pro�ramming. They��are using that as a
resource just as they would use Islands of Peace, a'school yard, Innsbruck
area, etc. Mr. St. Clair has held programs all over the City, and he is not
doing the programming for the Foundation.
Ms'. Hughes stated she did know, however, that the things Mr. St. Clair has
done for the Foundation has been charged to the Foundation, and the Foundation
has paid for it.
Ms. Mech stated this issue was an old discussion. The money is available for
the building and the people have indicated what they want.� They could argue
a12 night-whether or not the people had been deceived, but people have been
led to expect a nature center, and the City needs a nature center: .
Mr. Barnette stated he is talking about a facility that is going to all of a
sudden cost the taxpayers a lot of money.
Mr. Young stated that to compare this to something else--people were told that
the new zoo in App1e Valley was not going to cost anything, and every year
the zoo needs more and more money. Metropolitan Transit Commission cannot seem
to get by and keeps cou�ing back for more money. He stated these may be silly
eomparisons, but people don't get something far nothing. He still feels the
nature center is the thing for this community, whether it is something for
nothing or if he has to pay tax dollars for it. He feels the nature center
is gp ing to serve a greater number of people than the golf course. There is
no guarantees that a golf course could pay for itself. With the high cost '
of gasoline and the way�the environment and ecoiogy is deteriorating, the
nature cen�er is the only lasting thing he-can leave for his children and his
children's children.
Ms. Hughes stated that bringing this topic up probably was telling the
Commission that they ought to look again at their total service needs and
whether they are meeting them: She thought that meant going back and reviewing
some of the Neighborhood Park Committee's findings. It is something they
should do in the next 2-4 months, particularly if they are going to be talking
about another major expense item in the Recreation Center.
Ms. Hughes stated that the Commission appreciated Mr. �3arnette's comments
and thanked him for coming.
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� PARKS & RECREATION CO1rIl�tISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 13, I980 __-____ PAGE 8
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B.. Lease with Anoka County_ .
Dr. B oudreau stated that two Anoka County Master Plans have been encouraged
and presented to Metropolitan Council. One plan is for the Rice Creek West
Bikeway/Walkway System that would cut through Locke Park in its entirety.
This plan is high priority. The second plan is the master plan for the Islands
of Peace Regional Park (not the official name) that includes Islands of Peace
property plus Durham Island plus all the land south of 694 and west of East
River Road. The County has taken the positiom in one of its�policies that .�
� any time it causes an influx of people or programs upon a local community by
� one of its programs or facilities, it should operate and maintain that facility.
Mr. Boudreau stated the Commission members had a copy of a memo he had wrirten
to the City Manager on this subject. He thought it was time for the City to
eonsider a"joint powers agreement" with the County for the County to provide all
maintenance and operational costs for these facilities. The City would retain
the ownership of the land and would retain the right to review and either approve
� or veto any�:new developments that would change drastically the program or the land.
He thought the City should review its ordinances concerning the policing and
fire control of these areas. He thought there were some benefits the City could
arrive at by having the County perform the operation and maintenance of �he
facility that was going to have a greater use to people because of the County,
The east-west bikeway/walkway system will.generate mo�e people go.ing thr•ou�h.•.
Locke Park. If the City was going to continue the maintenance of the facility, n
it was going to cost more dollars and an increasing amount of time for a facility
that was really serving a regional function. Since the County has said in_its
policy statement that it would provide operation and maintenance, he thQUght the
City should strongly look at this possibility.
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Ms. Seeger stated the problem she had with this was the attitude of the County.
She did not know what input the City of Fridley residents had in any of the
county's kinds of developments, maintenance, or anything. The County
Co�missioners' meetings were during the day, not in the evening, and it kind
of left out the citizenry if they had comments, suggestions, or complaints.
Mr. Young stated the only thing that bothered him was the fact that Locke
Park is a facility that is owned by Fridley, but is being used extensively by
groups from Minneapolis and o�her communities. With the increased popularity
of that situation, the peogle bf Fridley won't even want to go there.
Dr. Boudreau stated it is a regional-use facility right now that the City is
spending money on to maintain.
Ms. Seeger suggested that maybe the City could obtain t-he manpower or the
dollars from the County and still retain the operation and maintenance. As
a citizen, she would feel better about that kind of arrangement. She would
not have to go to the Anoka County Courthouse to talk to souieone about a
problem. She would rather be able to go to her �.ocal government. ^
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PARKS & RECREATION CONIl�lISSI�N MEETING, FEBRUARY 13, 1980 - PAGE 9
Dr. Boudreau statec� that when he looks at the resources the City has available
and the responsibilites the City has available, and its dedication to the other
300 + acres of land it is trying to maintain, he thought, in the long run, the
County was in a better position to provide additional maintenance to these
regional use facilities. _. � , -
Mr. Young stated that Anoka County would be hauling their equipment,l5-17 miles
from Anoka to Fridley, and he could not see where that was �he most economical
way to maintain a facility.
Ms. Hughes stated there were a lot of questions here that needed to be answered
before they could recommend ta City Council that the City enter into a"joint
powers agreement" with Anoka County. There are pros and cons on both sides.
She asked what the purpose was for:Dr. Boudreau's memo to the City Manag�r.
Dr. Boudreau stated the memo was a step in initiating general discussions
regarding a long term lease with �noka County for:these parcels of land.
Ms. Hughes stated that another item that could be added as #15 on the memo was:
"Are there other ways for efficient maintenance and operation, such as grants
and aids?" •
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� Mr."Konnrick stated that Items 5, 6, 8, 11, 1_2, and 13 in the memo directly
involved money--monies that could be saved by letting the County do tfiis on
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the condition that if the City can still maintain control and save dollars for
the City of Fridley, he thought it was a better deal and the overall program
was going to affect the residents of Fridley and not the residents of Anoka
County. He thought it was to the City's advantage to have the County do these
things . '
Ms. Hughes stated she would like the Commissioners_to take a careful look at
the items listed in Dr. Boudreau's memo to see if there was anything more tYiat
should be discussed and so they would �e in agreement that they had covered
every�hing. '
MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, secanded by Mr. Young, to continue discussion on the
possible lease with Anoka County at the next meeting. Upon a voice vote, all
voting aye, Chairperson Hughes declared the motion carried unanimously.
C. Request - City of Coon Rapids
Dr. Boudreau stated that the City of Coon Rapids was coming to the City Council
on March 3 to request the City of Fridley assist them in funding a summer
concert series. He would recommend that the City not assist the City of Coon
Rapids financially since all monies to be expended and all groups performing
will be at Anoka Ramsey Community College. He felt the City of Fridley has
a vezy tight budget in trying to capitalize on its own cultura2 arts programs.
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gpRKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING FEBRUARY 13 1980 - PAGE 10
MOTION BY MS SEEGER, SECONDED BY MS MECH, TO RECONIMEND TO CITY COUNCIL,
THRpUGH PLANNING CONIMISSION THAT THE CITY OF FRIDLEY DO WHAT THEY CAN TO
FROMOTE THE CONCERTS IN COON RAPIDS BUT THAT THEY FEEL FUNDING IS NOT
APPROPRIATE OR WITHIN THE CITY'S CAPABILITIES. UPON A VOICE VOTE ALL Vd'
AYE ' CHAIRPERSON HUG�ES DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
D Park Improvements - Rice Creek School
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Dr. Boudreau stated he has talked several times about improving the Rice
Creek School playground. They would like to put in a permanent hockey rink
at Rice Creek School. They are trying to locate all the hockey rinks at the
schools, because they can leave the rinks up year around and it saves on
maintenance. In order to put in the permanent hockey rink, they need to change
one of the tennis courts so, in effect, they will be putting in a new tennis
court and a hockey rink end to end.
Dr. Boudreau stated they also want to revitalize the ball diamond which will
give another neighborhood facility. This pL+an was given to Ray Habel, Principal
of Rice Creek School, under the pretense that the City will split the improve-
ments with the School Board, and the City will be responsible for making
improvements and having use of the facilities after school hours.
Dr. Boudreau stated they are considering removing the hockey rink at Grace High
School. If Grace wishes to have a hockey rink, the City will put in the ice �
but not the boards. They had some problems at Grace this year, because the �_
residents think the rink is a Grace High School facility and not a neighborhood
facility.
The Commission expressed no objections and concurred with Dr. Boudreau's plans.
E. Proposed Fea Schedule for Adu1t Softball
Dr. Boudreau stated the 1980 adult softball league fees were increasing some-
what this year. The increased costs are primarily because of increased cost
of umpires, increased cost of maintenance materials and maintenance men,
increased registration costs with the MRPA and the ASA, and the state entry
fee is included in some of this. For the men's teams, they are suggesting a
$175 fee per team and a$155 fee per team for the women's leagues.
Dr, Boudreau stated they are also suggesting they set a limit on the number
of teams allowed in each of the adult leagues this �year. They felt with the
limit of fields and the use of neighborhood parks they have, the number of
teams should be limited.
M4TION by Mr. Young, sec�nded by Ms. Mech, Co accept the proposed fee schedules
for the 1980 adult softball leagues and that there be a limit of teams in each
of the adult leagues. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Hughes
declared the motion carried unanimously. .
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� � PARKS & RECREATION CO1�Il+�lISSION MEETING, FEBRUAftY 13, 1980 - PAGE 11
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. F. Recycling •
Ms. Mech stated she had some materiaZ about a unique recycling plant that is
in operation in Hempstead, New York. She wanted to know who would be interested
in looking at Chis material.
Ms. Hughes stated it was something the new Energy Coumnission might want to
: . investigate. . � �
ADJOURNMENT • �
Chairperson declared the February 13, 1980, Parks & Recreation Commission
meeting adjourned at 10:17 p.m.
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Respectfully su mitted,
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Ly �e Saba
Recording Secretary
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