PR 04/03/1980 - 31255J�
SP�CIAL
r•-� PAI2KS & RECR�ATION COMMISSION
�� MEETING
• ' APRIL 3, 1980
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CALL TO ORDER•
Chair�erson Barbara Hughes called the April 3, 1980, Special Parks & Recreation
Commission meeting to order at 9:03 a:m.
ROLL CALL:
Mi�m'�ers Present; Barbara Hughes, Dave Rondrick, Dick Young, Dan Allen
MPmbers`Absent: Jan Seeger
pthers Present: Charles Boudreau,. Parks & Recreation Director
Nasim Qureshi, City Manager
Serrold Boardman, City Planner
Siah $t. Clair, City Naturalist
1. AISCUSSION OF PLANNED FACILITX'FOR NORTH PARK:
Ms. IIughe� stated that �t the City Counc:il meeting on March 17, she felt.that
enough in£or�:ation regarding ccsts had changed to warrant a special �'a�ks &
Rer,r�ation Commission meeting in order for the Commission members to have some
disr��ssion, particularZy about t1le�il wa11, be£ere making s�me rec�nmer.dation
to the City.Gouncil.
Ms. Ht;�hes stated that at the City Counci� meeting, the City Council awarded
the contract to the low bidder; thej took the first alternative of'a3di.ng the
xoam and included a number of amendments that had taeen negotiated.by the Staff--
mostly changes and deletions of what was in the building such as cabinets,
iloors, carpeting, ligliting, etc. So, essentially, they have tlre shell of the
building plus some of the utilitie.s and equipment. Shs stated that by that
time, the price had gotten doG�n 1ow enough that there was some talk b.y the
Springbrook Nature Center Foundatior, that the ka11 wall should be added in.
At the meeting, ther� were some statements c�ade that the neat loss from the
��1 wall, if added, might be a lot higher ttian they had been told or were led
t-o believe. In'whzch case, it mi:ght be a poor thing to put in, Srie stated.
that before the City Council vcted on this, she had requested that they_-•refer
it back to the Parks & fiecreation Commission so that the Gouunission could take
a look at �altether or noL• ttte "Kall wall was a good alternative, taking into
consideration the aesChetics, the heat ].o�s, etc.., and send a recomu►endation
to the City Cauncil Lor their Aprii 7 m�eting.
Ms. ilu�hes stated that thF� Comr:issi�n. had not voted on th� ���iZi wall at their
last meetin�; and had decided xt should not be included because of the cost,
in terms of ����at the Cummissi.on kne:a at, their last meeting. Sh� thougki� now
that situ�tion tiad chr�n;ed. .
SPECIAL
I.'ARI:S & RECREATION COMMISS70N l+il's�'�'71v'(',, A.�i;:�I, 3, 1980 pAGg 2
Mr. Qureshi stated 'ne maue the s*r:.t:r�,rneiit t�ef:are the CI.�y Cour�cil that oZ the
positive side, the �8�-I wall wc>u'.:d c�rtainly adcl aesthetic value to the
building and with the light co«�ii�� •Lri, iC gives a feeling of openness, even
though the building space is sanall. On th^ .itgative side, the cost is $9,000
more, it has half �he "R" value (insulati��z�; value) than that of a regular
roaf, and also is more prone t�� vandalisn�',. He felt vandalism was a serious
consideracion because the building is in an isolated area, and they want to
make the building as secure and v�n�ial-prcof as possible.
Mr. Qureshi stated that to e�:�anu' an the co�i:s, he dici not want to say that
the City has enough money. Th� City doeG not have er.ough money. The origi.nal
base contract bid was $376,600. TY�ey have del�ted $51,575 worth cf work, but
that work is not going to go a*,��ay. Their ho�c, is tha� all of that work can be
staged over a period of time and tie done by v�lunteers, materials dcnated by
businesses, etc. That work ha� to be acc.omp��shed t� make this building a
ful].y-functioning building. They a.xe essentiaily building the shell of the
bu�lding and leavir.g the flex�bility of adc?ir��; these other things over a period
o� time. There are other costs that thev are c�efinitel.y committed to. One
cost is the architectural fee �;hich is a si�.a.b1e anlc�unt. They also have to
provide utilities into the buildi:�g and r�tr:r costs not in the $376,6CO3 which
are parking lot, parking lot exie�.�ion, drive-in ta the building, landsca�ing,
paths, etc. He wanted to make sure the Ca;iw�3_ssion had the full information
on cos�s befnre making tlteir recor��erdatz��n t� City Council. It was his ��oge
�hat the money will come froa� sot�:cwhcre--dun�:t�ons, raisecl by foundati�ns,
commitment of public monies,etc.
Mr. Young asked if the Springbrook iJrx±-ure Cer�ter Found3tion was willing ta put
monies into the building?
Ms. Hugh�s sta.ied that t'h� Spriugbroak Natur.� Center Foundation is wi�Iing to
try to raise about $2Q,000 by the er�c? of the aear, based on the raom alternative,
the ka11 wall, and other t-rlings insicie,
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Mr. Kondrick asked Mr. S�. Clair that, based on the in�ormation given by
Mr. Qureshi, rhe attitude of the �pr�.x:gbrook Nature Center Foundation, and
by providing volunteer labor and fin�li:�g c�ns�r.uction materials, �aould Mr. St. Clair
have a building he could work wi.th?
rir. St. Glair stated that with Grhat tl�ey are �oing to get, he felt they could
initiai:e thing� and make it l.00lc lfke some:thir�; is thexe. He thought they
could dress it up by �utting in t��i.ngs or_ a ter;iporary basis (such as shelving
with planks and bricks, exhibi�s, ai�c� painte�l k�al'ls} w�iile other work is being
done. It is tl�e cabinet work �or stcrage that wi1I. hii-�der thin�s. He felt �
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Y�the kal�, wUll would makP a big ciif�ere�ce in appearanc�.
Ms. Hughes asked if there were an; calcui3�:ans an h�w� much roof area compared
to how much area is underground. T�: is o}��vious there will be a heat Ioss in
the winter time and • a heat ,�,ain in ti-�e� suli�:t�T- time throu�h the kall waTl .
The problem was h�w bi.g an area is i:t and h�w si.gnificar,t is the kall waZ1?
Mr. Boardman stateei that the ka].1 �:��7,1 rc�ofir,.� is about 1,20� sq, f�. Abos.it .-�
60P/o of tlze building is undergro�:n.i. f�e w�i;l�i say ther� is about 5,000 sq, ft.
of total ioUfing. Even througt: the en�r�,� cal.r.ulatiorKs, this building does fall
well within the state standards fo� ener�y ��xt1 .ei�.ergy efficiency.
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SPECIAT.,
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 3, 1980
PAGE 3
Ms. Hughes stated that Ms. Seeger has expressed the importance of having the
�all wall for the aesthetics and programming in the building. Ms. Seeger feels
the underground part ought to play a big part in tlie consideration of the total
�nergy.
Mr. Young stated that something that was never mentioned and something that he
thoughr would add a fantastic amount of ligh't was skylights in the roof itself.
Was that ever looked at by the architects?
Dr. Boudreau stated they did look at some skylights in the rounded part of the
building to pr.ovide light in the office ar?a. The drawback with skylights is
the possibility of them l.eaking, and he thought they would be better off with
a solid I�a11 _wall than with parts of it .
Mr. Qureshi stated that in regard to the kall wall, there were a couple of more
things to be considered. It would require higher maintenance than a normal
roof, Al.so, the heat loss they would gain wauld be more of a consideration
than the deletion of air conditioning in th.e summer. He stated he wanted to
make it clear that he was at the meeting to give the Commission the ent�re
picture and was not there to say they should or should not have the kall wall.
Mr. Allen asked how serious was the pro'olem of vandalism with the kall wall?
He appreciated the aestheiics of the �11 �•�a11, but it �oould be frustrating
if it had to be patched frequ�ntZy.
^ Mr. ureshi stated that vandalism is a serious
Q problem. They wil1. have an
alarm. system, but it is pretty hard to secure a roof fram being damaged.
Mr. Young stated he talked to the contractor in regard to patching the=kal2
wall roof, and the contractor said it could be patched very:easily on-site
with a fiberglass type of material. ..
Mr. Boardman stated that the k�1Y.Wa11 was made from the type of material that
was pretty sturdy. It will resist rocks. The problem would be with weapons.
Mr. Young stated they were talking about vandalism of the k1�� wall, but it
seemed to him that the windows would be more attractive for vandalism and
more pro:�e to breakage .
Mr. Qureshi stateet that included in the $51,575 deletion was an alternative
to provide metal shutters which would come down cahen a button was push�d so
the building becames secure. What they are providing at this time is the
electrical hook-up so that can be put in at a later time.
Mr. St. Clair stated that the building would probably be open seven days a
week on a regular hourly basi.s. Trom a vandalism standpoint, *he fact that
there will be staff around the building most of the time makes it not as open
to vandals as Locke Park where there is no stuff on-sit�.. Maybe later on,
they could have gates that would be closed at night.
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SPECIA�
P1�RK5 & r2ECK�ATIQN COMMZSSION NFEx'71`:G AFT'.3:I, 3 1980 PAGE 4
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Dr. Boudreau state�' it is a fact: tiiat ther� i.s going to be vandalism. Their �,
interest is to reduce the va�idalisni wher�ver possiUle. The kal� wa11 is more
attractive for vandalism t�han a re�ular xaof. It is up to personal taste, do
they or do they not want the 1�a1�. F�all?
Mr. Young stated he did not knoc;� if the �a-�:�. wall was worth $9,000 just to
get 2ight. It was a lot �o pay for a sma11 squarE footage of roof.
Mr. Alle:i stated he was pretty sati�fied urith the toughness of the kall wa11,
and the eneroy situation seemed to.even iCself out pi'e�ty well. It would be
a very attractive thing ta have, es�ecialiy i.n a naturE cPnter-type of setting.
He was stili a little concerned abcut -�an�I�lism anc3 the isolated location of
the building.
Mr. Kondr.ick stated he was in �avor of the kal], wall and thought it would be
magnificent.
Mr. Qureshi stated that another el.ement in t�:e cost was that there is no gas
� available on the site. The gas eacr.�any wi.11 not run a line because it is too
� l�ng a run and too small a buiidin�;, so the City wi11 have to provide its own
LP gas system. J�zst t'.ie cost of the gas tani�s is $600 a year plus 59.9� a gallon
for the gas.
Mr. Boa-r.dma.�: �tated the instali.a*ion cf t:r�� tanks is $?00 and the tanl;s are
$40�. Tr�eie wi11 t�e 2- 1,000 g�llon tani.c�� to carry the load and tnere is a
three-year. lease agreement �n the tanks. . /'�
Mr. Boardman stated there will bE some her�t �ain thr�ugh the kalZ wall during
the c�ay in tl-ie winter, '�ut there �ill b� a heat loss in the evening, so it
ma� balance out.
Nlr. St. Clair stated he rhought �:hat from the sL'andpo;nt o= Programming and
from the :standpoint of how visit:�r_s feel a?�o,�t the bu�.lding, he felt .the kall
wall would make a tremendous difference. T:�e �ahole structiiral system of the
building is desig��ed for the ka.11 wall and ;_i' Y_hey go to a diff.exent kind of
roof, it will not match up with che beam s�stem. He would recammend that the
kall wall be added.
Mr. Qure�hi stated that it is a �.�a.tter af mon�y aizd zf the Commission feels
. the�r can rai.se $�Q0-120,OC�, he wotild xecosi?r.�end iha� they bo w�th the ?�►�-1 wall.
There i� certainly no question tliat it woul:t be ?n added characteristic to
the building.
MOTIOi1 ,BY P1R . KOIQ'��ICK., SECONDED ?`,��: :�1R. YC,»�1�IvG, T.0 RECI�N,T'1E;�1i� �0 CTTY COUiVCIL
THAT�TH �rE •� L� WA?,L gE INCL"u'DEDyTtv �.`!iE B'J �i)`t:�,TG �T N(3RTH PARK. —
UPOiv A 40ICE VJTE, HUGHES, � KQ%'DR7,CK, AN�3 AI;7,�"N VOfiING AYE, 'i'OUNG VOTING NAY,
CH�IRPERSQN HUGHES DECLARED TIiE r�(�TIOP� i;!1�?�;:ED,'
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SPECIAL
PARKS & RECREATION COr�SSI�N 2�iErTING APRIL 3- 1980 PAGE 5
� 2. LEASE� WITH ANQKA COUNTY: �
Mr. Qureshi stated he was brin�ing this item up because the timing on it is
critical. The City Is con�iderinb working witt7 Anoka County by having some
of the facilities that are either being essenCially used on a regional basis
or have the potential of being used on a regional basis be maintained by the
Courity instead of the City. Their interest was in three areas: (1) North Fark,
(2} Locke Park, and (3) FMC/Islands of Pe�ce Park. All of these facilities
are 100 acres or over.
Mr. Qureshi stated tt:at as the Commission might be aware, the County has now
shown an outward interest in taking over the maintenance of North Park,but because
there is metro funding available for Locke Park and the FMC Property because they
are going to part of the metro system, the County has same interest:in consider-
ing this question. He stated they have run some analyses, ar.d it is costing the
City of Fridley almost $50,-000 per year to maintain Locke Park and Islands of
Peace Park. �
Mr. Qureshi stated he had two basic reasons why it would be in the City's best
interest to consider this question.
1. If he had $50,000, instead of puttzng it into a regional facility
that was used also by residents of Minneapolis, Coon Rapids', and
Blaine, he weuld pref.er to have that money go into the xiei�hborhood
� parks. As he understood it., the County has the rationale for
s"� conGidering Locke Park and the FMC Property, but lias difficultg
with Ilorth narlc. If the County was maintaining tW0 parlcs of the
three, therE might be some ratienale in the City taking some of the
money spent on the two parks to spend on North Fark.
2. There has been a pro'�lem�for a number of years to get the Highway�
Department to put in a signal at Highway 47 and 69th Ave., beca�u$e
there is not enough cross tXaffic to F.*arrant a signal, aceording
to state highway standards. Finally, it has come down to the.fact
that the City and Anoka County are going to fund that signal lOCi/,.
They have an agreement with Anoka County that they will work to get
$25,000 from the Metropolitan Trail System (because that is where
the Metropolitan Trail System will gn) to fund that signal. The
signal has been left now and, hopefully, work wxll be progressing
this year. Unless they can make som� arrangeme�ts with the park
facilities, those funds are in question. .
Mr. Qureshi star.ed that, (1) as long as the City has title to the properties,
(2) as long as ttle Cit:y states that any facilities t�uilt on thase properties
have to be approved a*id concurred by the City so they have full control over
what happens on the properties, and (3) the County states they are willing to
come in and maintain the existiag facilities, from the City's, point �f view,
this would be a goad thing. He feIt this would protect the City's.interest
ifi they could get thaC kind of agreement from the County. He stated tliat if
tY►e City can get these three basic things from the County and all the County
^ would be doing is maintaining the property as the City T1A47 dC�S, would the
Commission go alnng with this?
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SPECIAL
PARKS & RECREATIOP7 COMMISSION i!f+^.3:��'i�.�;G, A"��:l��..: 3, 1980 PAGE 6
Mr. Yourig stated that if the CaL�r:ty went a1+an� with those conditions, he would �
be in favor:of it.
Ms. I�ughes stated .that w.�at thc C�:n:nissiaa h<�d talked about at their last meeting
was a Iease arrangement where tr�� City i:a c.ss�nce �aas giving the park and the only
thing the City was maintainir±g was th� tiE.ie a7id r.o oY_her contral. The reason
the Commission ha� delayed a�y dtc�.sion an rhat was uecause they re111y wanted
to know what all the diff�rent a�tions were. She ha3 no �bjections to
preliminary discussions, but sr_e �ras;n�t re«cty to mak� the decision that this
was a.greeable, because she did �:ct think t).ie Goulimission knew all the ramifications.
Dr. Boudreau �tated there is no city prcgxa.urring at �hese facili,ties, �ecause
trese fac�ilities are.mainly used as Iaicn�c areas and self-use areas. The County
op�rating and maintaining those parks is nn� going to preclude that. The City
is spending a lot of money mainra.inzng tr�ese facilities when, in fact, the use
pattern shows that the residen*s �;L tridley a.re proUahly not the primary users
of the regional facilities. Ttie C'it,y also-s�:End� a iot of money on patrolling.
With this operation and maintenanra come<� paxk patr.ol fro�► the i,ounty.
Mr. Kondrick stated if the CitS� reL-ained co.�L-rol of the facilities, he would be in
favor of a lease with Anoka COUIILy.
Dr. Boudreau stated this agreement wouid'be n� different than the agreements the
City has with School Districts 13, 1Fi,: ar,.d l4. They �ave joint powers ��reements
wriere the City -�ii1 placP facilit:iE�s on �ct:ac�I properties and the Cifiy �aill
maintain those facilities, howeve�, ihe Citv-use.priorities and the schoal-use ^
priorities are outlinect. Tlie sc?ZO�l dist�icts get the credi_t for those facilities,
but the City operates and riaint:i.ns the�.
MC�TION BY MR. YOUIVG, SF,COA'�TDED PY T�R, ALLFN}_ TO RECOMi��N:1 Z'I-?A� THE CI�'i' COUNCIL
FITRSUE N�'GOTIATIONS WIT�i A�tOK,A CC�;1ti"� T TO C�E 1'I'F� A JuINT POt4'ERS AGREEMENT FOR
MAINTENANCE Aiv'D OPERA�IQN OF LQC:i�E i'.�RK F`Gt. i t?:� FOI,LOWI.��?G •
1. MAINTENANCE OF" GRO�NbS, t�TJTLDINCS; �'�NI:, PTCI�TIC SHELTERS
2. MAINTENANCE Or TRAILS T^ � ��
3. MATNTENANCE OF` �'ARI�ING T�OTS
4. P�Ri� i'ATROL "
5. UTIL7:T'� COST PAYi�lEI�?TS
6. GARB�GE PTCK-UP
7. DISEASE CONTt20L PROiI�',._ht
THE rzTY WzLl� RETAIN THE FULT OL�"rN� ;
1. TT�';.,2: TO THE P.20PEP.T` k�v`D AL,L FA.C:�L�T7E�
2. USE QF TF1E PROPERTi' AN� SGH;c:DULIiv� OT RECREt�T�ONAL FACI�ITIES
S. M/1�14'�!"�IN UFKE:EY OF AI,L tt.i::'TI�'E RLC�tFt�'�l'D:vA7 FACILITIi::� ^�;XCrPT TR.AILS
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4. COTL.�?UNITY GAKDEN FLflTS � � `
Ms , Hughes sLated the Cor:�missi:on c.�as told �tiaa n�c+nths aGo �hat there was no
�eadline on ±:his item. Sh� �,�=as upset tI-�at t:hi.s camc up no�* w�hen the ag�nda
was �nly for discussic��� of the truilding al-, i�or.th .Park. She was :very uncomfortabl.e
in nat Ic��i:ing at ttYis witn a gccat d.e.al af` tt�.ought whicl� the Cornmission:has not
dot�e because she �iid nat think th�r�� w�s a,t:i.metabl.� on it. In terms of a
r"�,
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SPECIAL
PARKS & RECREATION CC�MNIISSION Nt�ETING; APRIL 3, 19$0 PAGE 7
� joint powers agreement, if that agreement could be framed in su�h a way that
the County would pay L-he City to do the mai.ntenance and operation, she would
prefer that because of t1.1e kind of control the.City would have. T.he City's
costs w�u1d be mucl: loti�er than the County's . The thing t'he City must avoid
is giving away its parks, and the City could easily do that if the Co�nty
ch�oses to interpret any kind of joint powers agreement broadly.
Mr. Young stated the ona thing the County cauld do far better than'the Ciry is
the securiLy aspect.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, KO��i;ICK, YOtiNG, AND AI,LEI�T VQT.ING AXE, HUGHES VOTING NA�,
CHAIKPERSON HUGHES DECLARED TH�' MOTION CARRIF'�D.
Mr. Qureshi stated the reason Yie felt it was iutpc�.rtant to get « motion froa�
the Farks & Recreatio�i Gommissian on this quest.�c?:i was if the City Council is
going to consi�er anythin� about providing furciing, �his might be a small
coRSideration in their overall eval.udtion of scane of the additional things
beirzg aska� £or in the Nox-th Park iaci?.ity. I� tlie low contract bid had beE:�
lower than they actually got for the North Par.k £acility, there would not have
been this time pressure. A1so the City Coun�il has the desire to get some
funding through the Metropoiitan. Trails Syste� for the signal. !ie was sorry
if the Commission felt they were be.'tng pushed on thi:� issue.
3. UTIi�R BUS:LZ1l15S:
/� Mr. Qureshi stated that at the last City Cour.cil meefiing, there was sorne dis-•
cussioti ai.ci a d4s �� re was ex�aressecl i�y �ne City Coun�;.1 members tti�t ti7e Cit_y
Cauncil and the Parks & Recreafi.ior. Commission should have an opportunity to
have an informal discussion on a face-to-face basi_s. He felt this wou3d be
helpful and would give the City Council members arkd the Cc�mmiss�on mer.�bers an
oppartur�ity to meet each other and discuss things in�or��ally. He statea that
�f trie Conunission members were availablz on Monciay, �'ap,-i1 7, he would invite
tY:e.n to attend at ab��at 9:00 ta 9:30 P.P�. for this meeting.
Ms, Iiughes told Mr. Qur�shi to sch��dule them on the agenda and as �any Cc,mmission.
member.s as possible woul� be tn�.-re.
ADJOIIRNMLNT •
Ct�airpers�n fi�,�ghes cieclare<_• the ��.ril 3, 1980, Special Parks & Recreat,�ior.
Cc�mmission meeting adjourned at 10:30 a.m.
RespectfullS� submitted,
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Lyn,"e Saba
Recording Secretary
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