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PR 12/01/1981 - 31274� � CITY OF FRIDLEY PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, 1981 CALL TO ORDER: � Chairperson Kondrick called the December l, 1981, Parks & Recreation Commission meeting to order at 7:35 p.m. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Dave Kondrick, Barbara Hughes, Dick Young, Dan Allen (arr. 8:05 p.m.), Jan Seeger (arr. 8:20 p.m.� Members Absent: None Others Present: Charles Boudreau, Parks & Recreation Director Dave Torkildson - Anoka County Park Department Donna Bowman, Lakeside Park Commission APPROVAL OF OCTOBER 19, ]981, PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES: MOTION BY MR. YOUNG, SECONDED BY MS. HUGHE5� TO APPROVE THE OCTOBER Z9� I981, PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES AS WRITTEN. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLA.RED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Mr. Kondrick requested that Ms. Donna Bowman and Mr. Dave Torkildson be put first on the agenda, with the "Director's Report" being the last item on the agenda. MOTION BY MR. YOUNG, SECONDED BY MS. HUGHES� TO APPROVE THE AGENDA AS AMENDED. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 1. NEW BUSINESS: �. Lakeside Park Commission - DQnna Bowman Ms. Bowman stated she was at the meeting to inform the Fridley Parks & Recreation Commission about a possible boat landing on Spring Lake, ^ which would be a cooperative effort among Ramsey County, Moundsview, -�- and Spring Lake Park. She stated that since Fridley owned a small piece PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, 1981 PAGE 2 of land on the north end of the lake, the Lakeside Park Commission thought Fridley should be informed. Ms. Bowman stated they are hoping to get the boat ramp funded through the Department of Natural Resources. They do not know if they will get this money or not. She stated she will keep the Parks & Recreation Commission informed as the plan progresses. 2. OLD BUSINESS: a. Re ort on Locke Park Bikewa /Wa7kwa and other Future Im rovements - ave or � son, nO�a�County�Pa►^ s epartment Mr. Torkild�on stated that, as the Comnission knew, they only have funds available for the hiking trail at the present time. He stated that, to date, Park Construction has the contract, and Park Construction has cut in all the hiking trails. They have not put the wood chips on the trails yet. The bridge abutments have a71 been put in place. � Mr. Torkildson stated he had addressed the Commission's concerns as expressed in their Oct. 19, 1981, minutes, in a letter to Chairperson Kondrick dated Nov, 5, 1981. He stated that, regarding the concern about not cutting the grass on the open area to the south of Rice Creek, they are following the open area with a trail and wou7d like to reforest a good portion of the area and put the trail back into the wooded area. Up until this time, the City of Fridley has always cut the grass in this area. With no ballfield areas back there, he had a hard time justifying the expense of cutting the grass. Mr. Torkildson stated he has talked to Terry Merriman about reforesting some of this area and possib7y coming to some kind of compromise by allowing some of the area for use by the residents. Mr. Torkildson stated Mr. Merriman seemed to think that would be satisfac#ory. (Mr. Allen arrived at 8:05 p.m.) Mr. Torkildson stated the County is talking about changing the main entrance and the park road into the park, so there would be on7y one entrance to Locke Park. This would probab7y mean moving the present horseshoe courts, but they have not made any decision about that yet. They have discussed it with Dr. Boudreau and the Horseshoe Club about the possibility of moving the courts. They will work out the best location with the Horseshoe Club. Mr. Torkildson stated that s�nce the Commission last met, NSP has come in under an easement the City of Fridley gave them and cut out an 80-ft. swath through the existing picnic area and along the Creek to their . substation on Highway 65 in order to insta]1 high voltage lines. With that in mind, the whole area will be cleared. They have talked to NSP to see if the County could construct � roadway underneath the high wires for the new entrance. It would also give them additional parking so the entire area would be used. �. � � � � PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1 1981 PAGE 3 Mr. Torkildson stated they have also picnic shelter as they are concerned voltage power li�es. He stated they on that yet. discussed moving the existing about it remaining under the high have not come to any conc]usion Mr. Torkildson stated the County will continue to do whatever they can to prevent any erosion on the trails where there is the danger of erosion. Ms. Hughes stated she was concerned about the width of the trails, especially in the areas where they are located by streets or alongside a ditch. Mr. Torkildson stated he would a]so like to see the trails less than 8 ft., but then they would not be providing the width the State recommends. He would also be concerned about liability if the trails were only 6 ft. wide. (Ms. Seeger arrived at 8:20 p.m.) Ms. Hughes asked Mr. Torkildson what the County has done and what they will be doing in the park. Mr. Torkildson stated the County has cut the grass and done general maintenance, provided park surveillance by park rangers, painted the shelter, replaced dilapidated picnic tables and grills, and put some signs up. This coming year they will again have a full-time person available for general maintenance of the park area and, in addition, they will have a part-time person to help in c]eaning and maintaining the new trail system. He stated they plan to make a new entrance and road into the park, with a one-way street coming in and a one-way street going out, with a parking lot. They also plan to move the horseshoe courts. Ms. Hughes stated one thing she keeps hearing is "when the City Council approves this Plan".. What she would like the Commission to do is recommend to City Council those things the City Council should approve, but there are also some things the City Council should not consider for approval in this plan. She stated one thing that should not be approved is the location of what is called a"future shelter". That should not be considered for approval at this point until they see a plan, what it looks like, and where the specific location would be. She stated it is stil] the City's park, and the City should know where that shelter would be located. The same �hing applies to the horseshoe courts. The City really ought to know where those courts are going to go. The City has the right to say, "no", if the County proposes to put those courts in a place where they shouldn't be. � PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, DECEMBER l, 1981 PAGE 4 Ms. Hughes stated she thought that at this meeting, the Comnission was just going to get a report from Mr. Torkildson on what the County had done in the way of maintenance, look at the County's plans for the park, and see what is going to happen in terms of a maintenance plan for 1982. If the Commission is being asked to give approva7 or tentative approval to this plan, then she thought the Commission should be very specific about what they are approving. Mr. Torkildson stated it would be nice to have an agreement with the Parks & Recreation Commission on whatever they are going to present to the City Council. However, in the Joint Powers Agreement, it�states that the County must present changes to the City Council for approval. Even if the Parks & Recreation Corr�nission does not approve it, they will still go to City Council. Dr. Boudreau stated the horseshoe courts are the City's responsibility according to the Joint Powers Agreement. That is part of the cooperation. The City and the County share and try to work out things together. Ms.. Hughes stated that part of her concern is in being able to see the engineering drawings, particularly in terms of the hiking trail. By looking at the drawings, they can see where it is going and they have the ,.� opportunity to recommend changes. Mr. Torkildson stated that as far as the shelter goes, they are not going to jump right into putting it in place. They do not even have any money available for it. Regarding the moving of the existing shelter under the high wires, he could not tell the Commission right now where it is going to go, because they have not even decided whether it will be moved. When they make that decision, he will inform the Commission. Dr. Boudreau stated that if the County decides that the shelter should be moved, that doesn'�t mean it has to be moved and stay within Locke Park. It could be moved to another park. Ms. Hughes stated her concerns stem from the fact that she has gone through some meetings like this where the �t��+rrissi�n has looked at some- thing, and then never had another opportunity to say anything about it. She did not want that to happen in this case. Mr. Torkildson stated they wil] not do anything at all in the park, other than the hiking trail that has already been approved by the City Council, until they talk to some of the people who are affected. He will bring that information back to the�Commission; however, it is their responsi- bility, according to the Joint Powers Agreement, to take the plan to the City Council before they even start anything. Mr. Kondrick stated he did not really disagree with any of the County's ' � plans, other than the concern that everything be done in a"class A" way. However, the Commission members would like to be kept informed as to what is going on, so they can answer questions from the citizenry. /"`� PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, 1981 PAGE 5 Mr. Torkildson stated he had no problem with that. He felt they were working with the City, and he personally felt they were corronunicating with City Staff. But, he had no problem with bringing information back to the Commission after they make some decisions and see what NSP is going to do. They would very much like to have the Parks & Recreation Comnission's approval on these things, He felt it was to his benefit to have a park comnission, such as Fridley's, making suggestings and changes so that the County and the City can come together on what they want City Council to approve. Mr. Torkildson stated that anytime the Commission members have any questions, they are welcome to give him a call. Mr. Kondrick thanked Mr. Torkildson for coming and talking to the Commission. Dr. Boudreau stated that the plans for Locke Park are available in the Parks & Recreation Department. 3. DIRECTOR'S REPORT: a. � b, � M.R.P.A. State Conference - Dec. 2-3, Ramada Inn, St. Paul Dr. Boudreau stated the Corr�nission members had received information on this conference in the mail. He stated he would encourage the Commission members to attend some of the sessions if they could. He stated he will not be attending, but Connie McMillion and Jack Kirk will be attending. M.R.P.A. National Conference Report: Dr. Boudreau stated that Ms. Hughes attended the conference. She had asked that this be put on the agenda so that she could give a brief report. Ms. Hughes stated the conference was both interesting and informative. She stated one of the interesting things she heard, and also saw in some instances, was that parks have too many tennis courts or there are too many tennis courts in park systems. She stated this surprised her as she had never heard it before. Ms. Hughes st��ted she attended a session about recreation for the middle age people. �~��r �anted to see what the professional thinking was about this area. One t�ing that came out was that the professionals had noticed that many recreation�l programs do not inc]ude any programming for middle age--the people who have money and are working, in most instances. There were no decisions in terms of whether they want to or could program for that age group. She stated she did not rea]ly get any concrete information to bring back to the Commission or the City, but if that age group is going to be an area from which the City is going to need some support, they need to think more about programming PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, 1981 PAGE 6 for that age group. It was her personal feeling that the City of Frid7ey does program for that age group in terms of providing passive recreational-types of things. However, there may be other people in that age group who wish more active programming. Ms. Hughes stated she did�attend an interesting session on liability, sex discrimination, and other kinds of protections for parks and recreation districts. She stated she had some notes on this she wou7d like to give to Dr. Boudreau, as there was some very good information in that session. c. Information on Comnunity Recreation Center Dr. Boudreau stated he had met with City Council the evening before to discuss the proposed corrmunity recreation center. He stated that at the Saturday meeting in Pdovember there was a great deal of excitement among the Council members and they were anxious to qet a referendum going. Hov�rever, there was serious concern about the timing with the current economic situation, etc. He stated that at the meeting the night before, he told the Council that if they felt is was definitely the wrong time to do it, r�aybe the project should be put on the shelf ,.� for awhile. Dr. Boudreau stated he was coming to the Commission members to get their true feelings on what they feel should be done about the corrnnunity recreation center before the City goes to a lot of expense and work to put this on the ballot. He stated that, last night, the Council did consent to a Feb. 16 referendum date, and they did consent to a referendum amount of $4.85 million. That would include the building and would include the four spaCes beneath the auditorium. Dr. Bourdreau stated that if the decision was made to go ahead with the referendum, they have out together an information sheet they would like to include in the Parks & Recreation ��°���g' brochure. They would supply this information to the booster gr��. ::Jout 20 people who want to work on pror�oting the center). He stated he has also gone to cable TV with the architect, Jack Hanson (Co-Chairnerson of the Cor.�unity Recreation Building P•leeds Assessment Committee), Councilman Bob Barnette (representing his personal views and his views as a councilman), and Jack Kirk, to define how the center might define or add to the City's programs. He stated he was sched'uled on Wednesday for the last segment with Sid Inman, Director of Central� Services, to talk about the finances and how it will affect Fridl�y taxoayers. Fie stated the tape will be about one hour long. The cable TV people have agreed to run it five times through the month of January. The first sho��►ing will be on December 29. ^ Dr. Boudreau stated th�t, again, if the deci�ion is r�ade to go with the referendum, he viould like to develop a very short, brief inessage from the Corr�ission and the City Council stating that they urge the people of / \ PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, ]981 PAGE 7 Fridley to be informed, to vote, and to look at the impact the comnunity recreation center will have on the City. When this letter is developed, he stated he would bring it to the Commission. Dr. Bourdreau stated the City Council has taken the stand that they wish to privide voters with complete facts about the center, however the booster members should do any "selling" that took place. He stated he asked the City Council specifically if they had any objections to Staff promoting the benefits of the facility and what is might do for Mr. Kondrick stated he has had a lot of negative feedback from people on what t�e facility is going to cost. They seem to be able to handle the fact that it is going to cost them so much to bui]d the facility, but the thing they cannot seem to handle is the fact that, in addition to tax do]lars, there is going to be a fee structure, Another concern the people have is whether a non-resident is going to be charged the same as a Fridley resident, or more. Dr. Boudreau stated the final fee structure is entirely up to the City Council. If the Council wants to underwrite 100% of the operation and maintenance of that facility and let every resident and possible, non- n resident in free, that will be their decision.. All policies regarding fees and charges will rest with the City Council. Dr. Boudreau stated that the City did have a non-resident fee for Fridley programs about two years ago, however, Council has since suspended this fee: He stated the Parks and Recreation Department Staff and himself felt strongly that the taxpayers may wish to have this facility in their corrmunity, but when someone from another comr.�unity wishes to use it, the non-resident should help pay for that tax bill. He stated he would hope that this Commission would have a recommendation regarding the fee structure and non-resident fee. Mr. Young stated he agreed with Mr. Kondrick. He has heard cor�nents from people who wonder what the non-residents are going to pdy. When they are trying to s�ll this facility, he felt it was very important to tell the people that the non-resident is going to pay more. Ms. Hughes Pointed out that residents already pay for al] kinds of recreational services. How does the family or individual membership cover the class that might be held in the new faciliiy or is that member- ship fee going to be in addition to the cost of the class? _ � � PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, DECEMBER 1, ]981 PAGE 8 Dr. Boudreau stated those are some of the unanswered questions they have not gotten into yet, because those are policy decisions the City Council is going to have to determine. One thing they are looking at is if a person has a family or individual membership to the faci7ity and that person registers for a class that is being held in the facility, the cost of the class may be higher to a non-member to offset the member- ship fee and yet be a 7ower fee for the member. Another possible way is if you are a mer�ber, any class offered in the facility might be frec. Ms. Hughes stated she was concerned about a referendum date of Feb. 16 being such a short time away. Dr. Boudreau explained that this timing fit nicely with staff time available to inform the general public. Regarding Staff time, the Parks & Recreation Department's programs do not start until Jan. Z8, so 5taft has the month of Dec., Jan., and two weeks in Feb. to inform the people as much as possible. Ms. Hughes stated there should be public meetings and invite the civic organizations. There is no way Staff is going to be ab7e to attend all the civic organizations' meetings between now and Feb. 16, as most of the organizations already have their programs planned. Ms. Seeger stated the "Community News" section of the Minneapolis Star on Thursday would be an excellent place in which to feature an artic7e on the community recr�ation center. Ms, Nughes stated she would be very concerned about Staff doing all the promoting alone in the community without a councilman or a comnission member to help promote it. One way to handle that would be to have the elected or volunteer person do the genera7 introduction and then the Staff person could answer questions. Dr. Boudreau stated that is why he is asking for the Commission's help _ They are certainly.going to need the Commission's help iflthi;s fecili.ty - 1�s �o built with a successful referendum. The �Q �ni�,sion members agreed that non-residents should be charged a minimum �� 25� over the established fee for participation. The Comnissi�n members agreed thdt the fee schedules should be presented on a three-month, quarter, six-month, and yearly basi� and be pro-rated for senior citizens and youth. /`O � MOTION BY MS. HUGHES� S�COND�D BY MR. ALLEN, TO APPROVE THE FEB. 16� 1982, REFERENDUM DATE FOR THE COMMUNITY RECREATION CENTER AND TO APPROVE A REFERENDUM AMOUNT OF $4.85 MILLION. � UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. � PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1 1981 PAGE 9 ADJOURNMENT: Chairperson Kondrick declared the December ], 1981, Parks & Recreation Commission meeting adjourned at 1]:05 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUB TTED, ` � _ SABA RECORDING SECRETARY ::;. .-� n