PR 12/01/1981 - 31274�
�
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION
MEETING
DECEMBER 1, 1981
CALL TO ORDER: �
Chairperson Kondrick called the December l, 1981, Parks & Recreation Commission
meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Dave Kondrick, Barbara Hughes, Dick Young, Dan Allen (arr. 8:05 p.m.),
Jan Seeger (arr. 8:20 p.m.�
Members Absent: None
Others Present: Charles Boudreau, Parks & Recreation Director
Dave Torkildson - Anoka County Park Department
Donna Bowman, Lakeside Park Commission
APPROVAL OF OCTOBER 19, ]981, PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION BY MR. YOUNG, SECONDED BY MS. HUGHE5� TO APPROVE THE OCTOBER Z9� I981,
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES AS WRITTEN.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLA.RED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Mr. Kondrick requested that Ms. Donna Bowman and Mr. Dave Torkildson be put first
on the agenda, with the "Director's Report" being the last item on the agenda.
MOTION BY MR. YOUNG, SECONDED BY MS. HUGHES� TO APPROVE THE AGENDA AS AMENDED.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
1. NEW BUSINESS:
�. Lakeside Park Commission - DQnna Bowman
Ms. Bowman stated she was at the meeting to inform the Fridley Parks &
Recreation Commission about a possible boat landing on Spring Lake,
^ which would be a cooperative effort among Ramsey County, Moundsview,
-�- and Spring Lake Park. She stated that since Fridley owned a small piece
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, 1981 PAGE 2
of land on the north end of the lake, the Lakeside Park Commission
thought Fridley should be informed.
Ms. Bowman stated they are hoping to get the boat ramp funded through
the Department of Natural Resources. They do not know if they will
get this money or not. She stated she will keep the Parks & Recreation
Commission informed as the plan progresses.
2. OLD BUSINESS:
a. Re ort on Locke Park Bikewa /Wa7kwa and other Future Im rovements -
ave or � son, nO�a�County�Pa►^ s epartment
Mr. Torkild�on stated that, as the Comnission knew, they only have
funds available for the hiking trail at the present time. He stated
that, to date, Park Construction has the contract, and Park Construction
has cut in all the hiking trails. They have not put the wood chips on
the trails yet. The bridge abutments have a71 been put in place.
�
Mr. Torkildson stated he had addressed the Commission's concerns as
expressed in their Oct. 19, 1981, minutes, in a letter to Chairperson Kondrick
dated Nov, 5, 1981. He stated that, regarding the concern about not
cutting the grass on the open area to the south of Rice Creek, they are
following the open area with a trail and wou7d like to reforest a good
portion of the area and put the trail back into the wooded area. Up until
this time, the City of Fridley has always cut the grass in this area.
With no ballfield areas back there, he had a hard time justifying the
expense of cutting the grass.
Mr. Torkildson stated he has talked to Terry Merriman about reforesting
some of this area and possib7y coming to some kind of compromise by
allowing some of the area for use by the residents. Mr. Torkildson stated
Mr. Merriman seemed to think that would be satisfac#ory.
(Mr. Allen arrived at 8:05 p.m.)
Mr. Torkildson stated the County is talking about changing the main
entrance and the park road into the park, so there would be on7y one
entrance to Locke Park. This would probab7y mean moving the present
horseshoe courts, but they have not made any decision about that yet.
They have discussed it with Dr. Boudreau and the Horseshoe Club about
the possibility of moving the courts. They will work out the best
location with the Horseshoe Club.
Mr. Torkildson stated that s�nce the Commission last met, NSP has come
in under an easement the City of Fridley gave them and cut out an 80-ft.
swath through the existing picnic area and along the Creek to their .
substation on Highway 65 in order to insta]1 high voltage lines. With
that in mind, the whole area will be cleared. They have talked to NSP
to see if the County could construct � roadway underneath the high
wires for the new entrance. It would also give them additional parking
so the entire area would be used.
�.
�
�
�
�
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1 1981 PAGE 3
Mr. Torkildson stated they have also
picnic shelter as they are concerned
voltage power li�es. He stated they
on that yet.
discussed moving the existing
about it remaining under the high
have not come to any conc]usion
Mr. Torkildson stated the County will continue to do whatever they
can to prevent any erosion on the trails where there is the danger of
erosion.
Ms. Hughes stated she was concerned about the width of the trails,
especially in the areas where they are located by streets or alongside
a ditch.
Mr. Torkildson stated he would a]so like to see the trails less than
8 ft., but then they would not be providing the width the State recommends.
He would also be concerned about liability if the trails were only 6 ft.
wide.
(Ms. Seeger arrived at 8:20 p.m.)
Ms. Hughes asked Mr. Torkildson what the County has done and what they
will be doing in the park.
Mr. Torkildson stated the County has cut the grass and done general
maintenance, provided park surveillance by park rangers, painted the
shelter, replaced dilapidated picnic tables and grills, and put some
signs up. This coming year they will again have a full-time person
available for general maintenance of the park area and, in addition,
they will have a part-time person to help in c]eaning and maintaining
the new trail system. He stated they plan to make a new entrance and
road into the park, with a one-way street coming in and a one-way street
going out, with a parking lot. They also plan to move the horseshoe
courts.
Ms. Hughes stated one thing she keeps hearing is "when the City Council
approves this Plan".. What she would like the Commission to do is
recommend to City Council those things the City Council should approve,
but there are also some things the City Council should not consider for
approval in this plan. She stated one thing that should not be approved
is the location of what is called a"future shelter". That should not
be considered for approval at this point until they see a plan, what
it looks like, and where the specific location would be. She stated it
is stil] the City's park, and the City should know where that shelter
would be located. The same �hing applies to the horseshoe courts. The
City really ought to know where those courts are going to go. The City
has the right to say, "no", if the County proposes to put those courts
in a place where they shouldn't be.
�
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, DECEMBER l, 1981 PAGE 4
Ms. Hughes stated she thought that at this meeting, the Comnission was just
going to get a report from Mr. Torkildson on what the County had done
in the way of maintenance, look at the County's plans for the park,
and see what is going to happen in terms of a maintenance plan for 1982.
If the Commission is being asked to give approva7 or tentative approval
to this plan, then she thought the Commission should be very specific
about what they are approving.
Mr. Torkildson stated it would be nice to have an agreement with the
Parks & Recreation Commission on whatever they are going to present to
the City Council. However, in the Joint Powers Agreement, it�states
that the County must present changes to the City Council for approval.
Even if the Parks & Recreation Corr�nission does not approve it, they will
still go to City Council.
Dr. Boudreau stated the horseshoe courts are the City's responsibility
according to the Joint Powers Agreement. That is part of the cooperation.
The City and the County share and try to work out things together.
Ms.. Hughes stated that part of her concern is in being able to see the
engineering drawings, particularly in terms of the hiking trail. By
looking at the drawings, they can see where it is going and they have the ,.�
opportunity to recommend changes.
Mr. Torkildson stated that as far as the shelter goes, they are not going
to jump right into putting it in place. They do not even have any
money available for it. Regarding the moving of the existing shelter
under the high wires, he could not tell the Commission right now where
it is going to go, because they have not even decided whether it will be
moved. When they make that decision, he will inform the Commission.
Dr. Boudreau stated that if the County decides that the shelter should
be moved, that doesn'�t mean it has to be moved and stay within Locke Park.
It could be moved to another park.
Ms. Hughes stated her concerns stem from the fact that she has gone
through some meetings like this where the �t��+rrissi�n has looked at some-
thing, and then never had another opportunity to say anything about it.
She did not want that to happen in this case.
Mr. Torkildson stated they wil] not do anything at all in the park, other
than the hiking trail that has already been approved by the City Council,
until they talk to some of the people who are affected. He will bring
that information back to the�Commission; however, it is their responsi-
bility, according to the Joint Powers Agreement, to take the plan to the
City Council before they even start anything.
Mr. Kondrick stated he did not really disagree with any of the County's '
�
plans, other than the concern that everything be done in a"class A" way.
However, the Commission members would like to be kept informed as to what
is going on, so they can answer questions from the citizenry.
/"`�
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, 1981 PAGE 5
Mr. Torkildson stated he had no problem with that. He felt they were
working with the City, and he personally felt they were corronunicating
with City Staff. But, he had no problem with bringing information back
to the Commission after they make some decisions and see what NSP is
going to do. They would very much like to have the Parks & Recreation
Comnission's approval on these things, He felt it was to his benefit to
have a park comnission, such as Fridley's, making suggestings and changes
so that the County and the City can come together on what they want
City Council to approve.
Mr. Torkildson stated that anytime the Commission members have any
questions, they are welcome to give him a call.
Mr. Kondrick thanked Mr. Torkildson for coming and talking to the
Commission.
Dr. Boudreau stated that the plans for Locke Park are available in the
Parks & Recreation Department.
3. DIRECTOR'S REPORT:
a.
�
b,
�
M.R.P.A. State Conference - Dec. 2-3, Ramada Inn, St. Paul
Dr. Boudreau stated the Corr�nission members had received information on
this conference in the mail. He stated he would encourage the Commission
members to attend some of the sessions if they could. He stated he will
not be attending, but Connie McMillion and Jack Kirk will be attending.
M.R.P.A. National Conference Report:
Dr. Boudreau stated that Ms. Hughes attended the conference. She had
asked that this be put on the agenda so that she could give a brief
report.
Ms. Hughes stated the conference was both interesting and informative.
She stated one of the interesting things she heard, and also saw in some
instances, was that parks have too many tennis courts or there are too
many tennis courts in park systems. She stated this surprised her as
she had never heard it before.
Ms. Hughes st��ted she attended a session about recreation for the middle
age people. �~��r �anted to see what the professional thinking was about
this area. One t�ing that came out was that the professionals had
noticed that many recreation�l programs do not inc]ude any programming
for middle age--the people who have money and are working, in most
instances. There were no decisions in terms of whether they want to or
could program for that age group. She stated she did not rea]ly get
any concrete information to bring back to the Commission or the City,
but if that age group is going to be an area from which the City is
going to need some support, they need to think more about programming
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, 1981
PAGE 6
for that age group. It was her personal feeling that the City of
Frid7ey does program for that age group in terms of providing passive
recreational-types of things. However, there may be other people in
that age group who wish more active programming.
Ms. Hughes stated she did�attend an interesting session on liability,
sex discrimination, and other kinds of protections for parks and
recreation districts. She stated she had some notes on this she wou7d
like to give to Dr. Boudreau, as there was some very good information
in that session.
c. Information on Comnunity Recreation Center
Dr. Boudreau stated he had met with City Council the evening before to
discuss the proposed corrmunity recreation center. He stated that at
the Saturday meeting in Pdovember there was a great deal of excitement
among the Council members and they were anxious to qet a referendum
going. Hov�rever, there was serious concern about the timing with the
current economic situation, etc. He stated that at the meeting the
night before, he told the Council that if they felt is was definitely
the wrong time to do it, r�aybe the project should be put on the shelf ,.�
for awhile.
Dr. Boudreau stated he was coming to the Commission members to get their
true feelings on what they feel should be done about the corrnnunity
recreation center before the City goes to a lot of expense and work to
put this on the ballot. He stated that, last night, the Council did
consent to a Feb. 16 referendum date, and they did consent to a referendum
amount of $4.85 million. That would include the building and would
include the four spaCes beneath the auditorium.
Dr. Bourdreau stated that if the decision was made to go ahead with the
referendum, they have out together an information sheet they would
like to include in the Parks & Recreation ��°���g' brochure. They would
supply this information to the booster gr��. ::Jout 20 people who want
to work on pror�oting the center). He stated he has also gone to cable
TV with the architect, Jack Hanson (Co-Chairnerson of the Cor.�unity
Recreation Building P•leeds Assessment Committee), Councilman Bob Barnette
(representing his personal views and his views as a councilman), and
Jack Kirk, to define how the center might define or add to the City's
programs. He stated he was sched'uled on Wednesday for the last segment
with Sid Inman, Director of Central� Services, to talk about the finances
and how it will affect Fridl�y taxoayers. Fie stated the tape will be
about one hour long. The cable TV people have agreed to run it five
times through the month of January. The first sho��►ing will be on
December 29. ^
Dr. Boudreau stated th�t, again, if the deci�ion is r�ade to go with the
referendum, he viould like to develop a very short, brief inessage from the
Corr�ission and the City Council stating that they urge the people of
/ \
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1, ]981 PAGE 7
Fridley to be informed, to vote, and to look at the impact the comnunity
recreation center will have on the City. When this letter is developed,
he stated he would bring it to the Commission.
Dr. Bourdreau stated the City Council has taken the stand that they
wish to privide voters with complete facts about the center, however
the booster members should do any "selling" that took place. He stated
he asked the City Council specifically if they had any objections to
Staff promoting the benefits of the facility and what is might do for
Mr. Kondrick stated he has had a lot of negative feedback from people
on what t�e facility is going to cost. They seem to be able to handle
the fact that it is going to cost them so much to bui]d the facility,
but the thing they cannot seem to handle is the fact that, in addition
to tax do]lars, there is going to be a fee structure, Another concern
the people have is whether a non-resident is going to be charged the same
as a Fridley resident, or more.
Dr. Boudreau stated the final fee structure is entirely up to the City
Council. If the Council wants to underwrite 100% of the operation and
maintenance of that facility and let every resident and possible, non-
n resident in free, that will be their decision.. All policies regarding
fees and charges will rest with the City Council.
Dr. Boudreau stated that the City did have a non-resident fee for Fridley
programs about two years ago, however, Council has since suspended this
fee: He stated the Parks and Recreation Department Staff and himself
felt strongly that the taxpayers may wish to have this facility in their
corrmunity, but when someone from another comr.�unity wishes to use it, the
non-resident should help pay for that tax bill. He stated he would hope
that this Commission would have a recommendation regarding the fee structure
and non-resident fee.
Mr. Young stated he agreed with Mr. Kondrick. He has heard cor�nents
from people who wonder what the non-residents are going to pdy. When
they are trying to s�ll this facility, he felt it was very important to
tell the people that the non-resident is going to pay more.
Ms. Hughes Pointed out that residents already pay for al] kinds of
recreational services. How does the family or individual membership
cover the class that might be held in the new faciliiy or is that member-
ship fee going to be in addition to the cost of the class? _
�
�
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, DECEMBER 1, ]981 PAGE 8
Dr. Boudreau stated those are some of the unanswered questions they
have not gotten into yet, because those are policy decisions the City
Council is going to have to determine. One thing they are looking at is
if a person has a family or individual membership to the faci7ity and
that person registers for a class that is being held in the facility,
the cost of the class may be higher to a non-member to offset the member-
ship fee and yet be a 7ower fee for the member. Another possible way is
if you are a mer�ber, any class offered in the facility might be frec.
Ms. Hughes stated she was concerned about a referendum date of Feb. 16
being such a short time away.
Dr. Boudreau explained that this timing fit nicely with staff time
available to inform the general public. Regarding Staff time, the Parks &
Recreation Department's programs do not start until Jan. Z8, so 5taft
has the month of Dec., Jan., and two weeks in Feb. to inform the people
as much as possible.
Ms. Hughes stated there should be public meetings and invite the civic
organizations. There is no way Staff is going to be ab7e to attend all
the civic organizations' meetings between now and Feb. 16, as most of
the organizations already have their programs planned.
Ms. Seeger stated the "Community News" section of the Minneapolis Star
on Thursday would be an excellent place in which to feature an artic7e
on the community recr�ation center.
Ms, Nughes stated she would be very concerned about Staff doing all
the promoting alone in the community without a councilman or a comnission
member to help promote it. One way to handle that would be to have the
elected or volunteer person do the genera7 introduction and then the
Staff person could answer questions.
Dr. Boudreau stated that is why he is asking for the Commission's help _
They are certainly.going to need the Commission's help iflthi;s fecili.ty
- 1�s �o built with a successful referendum.
The �Q �ni�,sion members agreed that non-residents should be charged a
minimum �� 25� over the established fee for participation.
The Comnissi�n members agreed thdt the fee schedules should be presented
on a three-month, quarter, six-month, and yearly basi� and be pro-rated
for senior citizens and youth.
/`O
�
MOTION BY MS. HUGHES� S�COND�D BY MR. ALLEN, TO APPROVE THE FEB. 16� 1982,
REFERENDUM DATE FOR THE COMMUNITY RECREATION CENTER AND TO APPROVE A
REFERENDUM AMOUNT OF $4.85 MILLION.
�
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
�
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING DECEMBER 1 1981 PAGE 9
ADJOURNMENT:
Chairperson Kondrick declared the December ], 1981, Parks & Recreation Commission
meeting adjourned at 1]:05 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUB TTED,
` � _
SABA
RECORDING SECRETARY
::;.
.-�
n