PR 09/26/1983 - 31290CITY OF FRIDLEY
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION
MEETING
SEPTEMBER 26, 1983 ''
CALL TO ORDER;
Chairperson Kondrick called the September 26, 1983, Parks & Recreation Commission
meeting to order at 7:45 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Dave Kondrick, Jan Seeger, Dan Allen, Dick Young
.
Members Absent: Mary Schreiner
Others Present: Charles Boudreau, Parks 8 Recreation Director
Jack Kirk, Recreation Supervisor
Jerry Nelson, 7428 Concerto Curve
Barbara Hughes, 548 Rice Creek Terrace N.E.
APPROVAL OF JULY 25, 1983, PARKS b RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES:
� MOTION BY MR. ALLEN, SECONDED BY JHR. YOUNG, TO APPRDVE TXE JULY 25� 1983�
�- PARKS 6 RECREATIDN COMMISSION 1NINUTES AS WRITTEN.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICR DECLARED THE MOTION
CARRZED UNANIMOUSLY.
� APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
MOTION BY MR. YOUNG� SECONDED BY MS. SEEGER, TO APPROVE-TAE AGENDA AND TO PUT
TXE REQUEST FOR HOCKEY RINK POLICY BY JERRY NELSON AS TH£ FIRST ITEM ON TXE
AGENDA.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIJNOUSLY.
1. REQUEST FOR HOCKEY RINK POLICY - JERRY NELSON
Dr. Boudreau stated the Conanission members had received a copy of a letter
from Jerry Nelson requesting the City have a policy that anyone under
age 21 on a rink with a hockey stick must wear a helmet.
Mr. Kondrick stated the one problem he could see with having a policy would
be the enforcement of it.
Dr. Boudreau stated this subject of requiring helmets for hockey came up about
^ 3-4 years ago. At that time, the Comnission did not feel they were in_any
position to require the general public to wear certain equipment when they were
`� on the hockey rinks.
P�RKS b RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMBER 26 1983 PAGE 2
Ms. Seeger stated it was difficult for the Commission to figure out how they
would enforce such a policy. One thing the Commission could possibly do is
strongly advise or post a sign that helmets are recomnended.
Or. Boudreau stated he would have no problem with a recommendation.
Mr. Nelson stated he knew there would be a problem with policing a policy
like this. Nowever, there are rules that no one is allowed on an open skating
area with a hockey stick. The rink attendant enforces that rule, and there
doesn't seem to be a problem. At Columbia Arena and other indoor rinks, it
is just accepted that if you are on the rink with a hockey stick, you must
also wear a helmet.
Mr. Nelson stated there were two really bad accidents last year at Madsen Park
that could have been avoided if the players had been wearing helmets. He felt
the kids not playing hockey are the ones most likely to get hurt.
Mr. Nelson stated that 80-90% of the kids on the rinks are hockey players.
He stated he lives in School District 16. He has talked to J. McCluskey who
is going to talk to the Spring Lake Park City Council about having a bunch of
helmets laying around at the rinks so the kid that comes without one would
have a helmet to wear. He stated that when a non-hockey player is paying
�10-15 for a stick, he did not be]ieve �20 for a helmet was unreasonable, and
it protects the face and the head. Also, helmets can of ten be bought very
reasonably in garage sales.
Mr. Young stated he thought that most of the hockey p7aying on the skating
areas was on the rinks that were lighted. Could a warming house attendant
enforce a helmet policy?
Dr. Boudreau stated that the big question would be, how far does the city
�o? If they require a helmet, what about other protective equipment? They don't
want to see any kind of injury. He stated he would like to see the parents take
the responsibility to make sure their children wear protective equipment.
Mr.l�lson stated he felt a lot of parents really don't understand what is
going on at the rinks, and they don't understand the differences in ages of
the children playing hockey. He stated that any association in the state of
Minnesota requires full equipment for any organized practice or game. He
stated hockey has a bad enough name already,and he did not like to see kids
get hurt when they could give a policy like this a try.
Mr. Kondrick stated maybe there should be a sign recommending that hockey
helmets be worn.
Ms. Seeger stated she did not think the City could do anything other than
strongly recommend that protective equipment be worn. She would feel better-
i f i t was pos ted.
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PARKS b RECREATION COMMISSION MEETI��G, SEPTEMBER 26, 1983 PAGE 3
Or. Boudreau stated he thought they are talking a difference in age groups. When
there is a 16-17 yr. old warming house attendant trying to tell an 18 yr. old he has
io wear a helmet, there cou7d be problems. Then the rule is non-effective.
The younger kids see the older ones not following the rule, and they are
going to question why they have to follow the rule. He did not think they
could have a double standard. And, he did not think a city body could put a
rule on head gear on an outside public use area. He stated he would 7ike
to check with the City Attorney to see where the City stood legally. With
an indoor faci7ity where ice time is being paid for, there is the price of
admission and the facility can set the rules.
Mr. Kondrick stated he liked the idea of the kids wearing helmets. He �ould
like Dr. Boudreau to check with the City Attorney to see what the City could
or could not do. If nothing else, they should try a sign recommending
that helmets be worn.
Mr. Young stated he felt the same way. He felt they have a moral obligation
: to the people who use the rinks. He could see Dr. Boudreau's point about
other protective equipment, but most other injuries to the body heal. You
cannot replace the sight of an eye, and brain concussions can cause epilepsy
or mental retardation or other kinds of permanent injuries.
Mr. Allen stated he had mixed emotions about this issue. There was definitely
�^ a difference between the indoor ice facility and the general outside facility.
— He doubted that a 16 yr, old was supervising at Columbia Arena. He was also
concerned about where do they start and where do they stop. Personally, he
had far more injuries playing pick-up football than he ever did playing hockey.
He did not think a strong recomnendation on a sign was worth anything. Most
kids don't care about what a sign says. But, maybe they should have the
restriction and try it on an experimental basis.
Ms. Seeger stated she was not so much concerned about enforcing as informing.
MOTION BY l�t. ALLEN� SECONDED BY l�II2. YDUNG, TfIAT DR. BOUDREAU CHECK WITH THE
CITY ATTORNEY TO SEE WHETHER A MANDATORY HELMET RULE WAS POSSIBLE AND TO
BRING BACK A REPORT TO TXE COMMISSION AT THEIR OCTOBER MEETING.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VDTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED TXE MOTION
GARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Allen suggested that Dr. Boudreau check with adjoining communities to see
if any other communities are doing anything like this. Another suggestion
would be to inform parents through the city newsletter about the accidents that
have happened and stressing the importance of wearing protective equipment
when playing hockey.
Mr. Nelson stated that he knows other communities do not require helmets but,
no matter what other comnunities are doing, somebody has to be first.
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PARKS b RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, SEPTEM6ER 26, 1983 _ PAGE 4
2. DIRECTOR'S REPORT:
a. State Fair Nature Exhibit
Dr. Boudreau stated
at the State Fair.
is doing.
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that once again, Springbrook had an excellent exhibit
He stated he is very proud of what the nature center
Dr. Boudreau stated he would like to announce Springbrook's anniversary
celebration on Oct. 8, the same Saturday as the grand opening of the
plaza and the community park.
Dr. Boudreau stated the Nature Center has come out with a 32-page
coloring book for children. Mary Ellen Schutz, Parks & Recreation Dept.
staff,did tf�e art work and put together the book which will be offered
for sale at $1 per book. They hope to recapture some of the cost of
printing and so they can keep reprinting as the need arises. They think
the coloring book might be a big winner with some of the school systems
who bring children out to the Nature Center. He stated the book is both
entertaining and educational.
b. Comnons Park Rehab Plan
Dr. Boudrea!� si�ted Mr. Qureshi had received a memo from Councilman
Schneider suggesting that the Parks & Recreation Dept, had a plan for
Commons Park that wasn't being shared with everyone.
Dr. Boudreau stated the Commission members knew that the discussion has
always been that they would like to eliminate Fields #3 and #4 and develop
that north end of the park into a more passive type of city park. That
is the only plan they have to date. He would like to have some input
from the Commission members, because he would 1Tke to have a firm plan for
that development by the middle of December so they can go in next spring
and do some work on it. He felt it was essential, if they are going to
change that end of the park and make it a passive use area, to remove the
ball diamonds before spring. He stated they�do have some funding for �
piantings�and�trees in that area. � - .
Dr. Boudreau asked the Comnission members to give this thought and give
him some ideas of what they would like to see in this area.
Mr. Young stated one thing he felt there was a need for in the City was
a wading pool for the younger children. He knew it was an expenditure,
but maybe the Jaycees or another organization would be willing to make
an ongoing commitment for something like that. He thought some type of
ampitheater/bandshell structure would be appropriate. He would like to
see some landscaping with small hills that would break up the flat area.
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Mr. Allen stated he thought one thing they should do is go back to the �
neighborhood and see what the neighborhood would like to see in their -
park. He thought it might be very worthwhile to get the neighborhood
input.
� PARKS $ RECREATION COMMISSION_MEETING, SEPTEMBER 26, 1983 PAGE 5
Dr. Boudreau stated that was a very good suggestions, and he would be
happy to do that.
c. Fall Progrart�
Mr. Kirk stated the fall programming had started that day. He stated
registration was very good in the physical fitness area.
d. Plaza/Corrmunity Park Grand Opening
Dr. Boudreau gave the Commission members a copy of a news release which
outlined the schedule for the grand opening of the Fridley Community Park
and Plaza on Oct. 7 and 8. He invited the Comnission members to come to
the grand opening of both the plaza and community park and to also visit
Springbrook's anniversary celebration.
3. NEW BUSINESS:
a. Playground Area at Rice Creek School
Dr. Boudreau stated that at the last City Counci] meeting, there was a
group from Rice Creek area wanting to know what was going to happen to
� the hockey rink/tennis court/playground area if Rice Creek School is sold.
He stated he thought the Parks & Recreation Comnission should become
�� � involved in what is really needed in this area, what the minimum needs
are that should be retained if the school is sold, or the position the
Commission wants to take on the possibility of losing the playground
facilities they now have at Rice Creek School.
Or. Soudreau stated the school�property takes up about 10 acres.
There is playground equipment behind the school� a lighted hockey rink
and tennis court area on the south side of the school, and a small open
ballfield area on the south side of the school. In the past, the City
has used the gymnasium and the school facilities for summer playground
programs. He stated the school and playground equipment take up about
5 acres. .
Mr. Young stated he would like to know the demographic figures for this
area.
Dr. Boudreau stated the next closest park is Benjamin/Briardale Park, and
that is across Mississippi St. They are talking about 2500-3500 people
in this neighborhood. In looking at the National Park & Recreation Assoc.
minimum requirements for a neighborhood park, it is 2.5 acres to 5 acres
or about 1 acre/1,000 people. With 2500-3500 people in the surrounding
neighborhood, there should be a minimum of 2=1/2-3 acres for park area.
Dr. Boudreau stated he would like the Comnission members to give this
� thought and be prepared to �iscuss this at the�October meeting.
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING z SEPTEMBER 26, 1983 ___ PAGE 6
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Mr. Young stated it might be necessary to have a special meeting on
this within the next month.
Mr. Kondrick stated he would talk to Joe Lapinski of the School Board about this
matter and try to determine the present status and thoughts.
4. OLD BUSINESS:
a. Policy - Community Park Complex Tournament Use
Dr. Boudreau stated the Commission members had a copy of a letter from
John Gargaro, President of the Fridley 49'ers, requesting the Community
Park ball fields for a slo-pitch tournament the week of 49'er Days,
June 15, 16, and 17, 1984. He stated this is the first official request
the City has received, but they are anticipating many requests in the
future. He stated the Commission needs to establish some type of policy
for use of the new complex for softball tournaments.
Dr. Boudreau stated that he and Mr. Kirk have discussed this and are
suggesting that any profit-making group or organization having a tournament
for its own profit should be charged $1,000 for a weekend. They haven't
made any decisions regarding concessions. There would have to be some
stipulation on cost sharing with the City. He stated they are suggesting
charging �500 for non-profit organizations for a weekend tournament. ,.�
Dr. Boudreau stated they have estimated it will cost the City approx.
�15/hr. per field to have the lights on for softball. For four fields,
that is $60/hr. for lighting . They are figuring $42O.for m intenance
people• They felt the $1,000 would include the light�ng an� the
maintenance of the fields. He gave the Commission members a copy of the
Municipal Fee Survey prepared by the Assoc. of Metropolitan Municipalities.
He stated Fridley would not be out of line in charging $1,000 for a weekend.
Mr. Kirk stated that in the Municipal Fee Survey, there were not many
communities that charge a different fee for non-profit organizations. He
stated he and Dr. Boudreau felt there was a lot of difference between the
two. The non-profit organizations, such as the Hockey Bonster Club and
the Jaycees, are service organizations who will put some of the money
earned from a tournament back into the community. He stated it definitely
costs the City to put on a tournament, and the City should at least cover
all its costs.
Dr. Boudreau stated tournaments would be scheduled on a first-come, first-
served basis. However, right now they do owe allegiance to the Jaycees,
Fire Dept., Hockey Booster Club, FYSA, and Fridley Covenant Church.
Dr. Boudreau stated the Fridley 49'ers are requesting the tournament, but
they will probably not be running the tournament. They are looking at the
Hockey Booster Club running the tournament.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, SEPTEMBER 26, 1983 PAGE 7
Dr. Boudreau suggested that someone from the Commission volunteer to
discuss this with he and Mr. Kirk in order to draft up a policy on
softball field use and concessions. They could then come back to the
next Comnission meeting with recommendations.
Mr. Allen volunteered to meet with flr.6oudreau and Mr. Kirk.
b. Policy - Ice Location - Dick Young
Mr. Young stated he
for ice locations.
meetin�.
has not yet completed a drafted policy on rationale
He stated he hoped to have it done for the next
c. Policy - Nature Center Fees
Dr. Boudreau stated the Comnission members had a copy of the Springbrook
Nature Center Foundation's recommendations on a fee policy for programming
at the Nature Center. The Commission also had a copy of a memo from
Siah St. Clair to Dr. Boudreau dated Aug. 17, 1983, concerning the Nature
Center Fee Policy. He stated that, if the Commission members remerr�ered,
this item has been hanging for over a year when Mr. St. Clatr came before
the Commission in June 1982. At that time, the Commission had discussed
that maybe there ought to be a charge for outside school groups that come
into the Nature Center that make more demands on the Naturalist's time.
The Commission.had made a recommendation to the City Council,but the City
Council had sent it back wanting to know what the Springbrook Nature Center
Foundation's recommendations would be.
Dr. Boudreau stated the Commission now has the Foundation;s recommenda-
tions and should again make a recommendation to the City Council based on
the recommendations made by the Fo�ndation. He stated the Foundation
has made four recorr�nendations. The discussion was included along with
facts and considerations, concluding that no charge in fee structure was
needed at this time. He stated the fee structure as it exists at this
time is a charge for day camp programs or a minimal charge for the pro-
gramning on an organized basis. The recommendation from Mr. St. Clair
was that there should not be a separate fee for prograrr�ning to non-Fridley
groups or private groups.
Ms. Hughes stated the Foundation is not saying they should never charge
fees, but they are saying that at some time in the future they ought to
talk with the school districts and try to work something out. They see
Mr. St. Clair and his staff at almost the place where they ean start
developing some environmental education programming. When they do that,
they are going to have a super facility and a very good curriculum so that
the schools will want to use it on a more regular basis and then there will
be more demands for more staff. At that time, there should be some arrange-
ments made between city and schools to look at it and how they eould pro-
vide that kind of service. In other words, what they are saying is that
when it becomes a big enough problem, they can get other people to share
the cos t.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, SEPTEMBER 26, 1983 PAGE 8 �`
Ms. Hughes stated that while the Foundation did discuss this with
Mr. St. Clair, he did make his own decision on this.
MOTION BY 1NE. YOUNG, SECONDED BY MS. SEEGER, TO RECEIVE TNE MEMO FROM
MR. ST. CLAIR DATED AUG. 17, 1983, AND THE ME1N0 FROM SPRINGBROOK
NAfiURE CENTER FOUNDATION DATED AUG. 16, 1983.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION BY MR. YOUNG, SECONDED BY MS. SEEGER, TO CONCUR WITH THE
RECOMMENDATIONS !�lADE BY THE SPRINGBROOK NATURE CEATER FOUNDATION FEES
POLICY FOR PROGRAMS (MEMO DATED AUG. 16� I983 TO SIAX ST. CLAIR)� THAT:
I. TXE CITY CONTINUE TO UNDERWRITE NATURE CENTER PROGRAMMING
WI TH TAX FUNAS .
2. THE CITY CONTINUE TO CHARGE FOR MATERIALS AND PROGRAMS AS
IS CURRENTLY BEING DONE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH WXAT THE CITY
ALREADY DOES WITH OTHER RECREATIONAL PROGRAMS AND WHERE THE
CLIENT HAS A CHOICE ABOUT SIGNING UP OR NOT.
3. THE CITY CONTINUE TO PROVIDE SERVICES TD GROUPS (I.E. SCOUTS,
BROWNIES� CIVIC ORGANIZATIDNS, NURSERY SCHOOLS, ETC.) AS THE
NATURE CENTER STAFF HAS TIME AT NO COST AND IN CONSIDERATION
OF TNE TAXES BEING PAID AND AS PART OF THE G`OMMUNITY SERVICE/
PUBLIC RELATIONS OF THE DEPARTMENT. SUCH SERVICES ARE UNDER-
STOOD TO BE GIVEN AS TIME IS AVAILABLE AND WITH LOCAL GROUPS
BEING GIVEN FIRST CHOICE FOR SCHEDULING.
4. THE CITY ENTER INTO NEGOTIATIONS AT AN APPROPRIATE TIME WITH
SCHOOL DISTRICTS Z'a PROVIDE ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATIDN FOR
STUDENTS FOR APPROPRIATE FEES WKICX WOULD ALLOW EXPANSION OF
STAFF AND PROGRAMMING AND UNDERWRITE ASSOCIATED COSTS.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE� CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION BY 1►!R. ALLEN, SECONDED BY 1�LS. SEEGER, TO ADJOURN THE MEETING. UPON A VOICE
VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CXAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE SEPT. 26� 1983� PARKS &
RECREATION COMIHISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:45 P.1N.
Respectfully su mitted,
Lyn e Saba
Recording Secretary
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