PR 10/17/1983 - 31291CiTY OF FRIDLEY
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PARKS & RECREATTON COMMISSION
MEETING
OCTOBER 17, 1983 '
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairperson Kondrick called the October 17, 1983, Parks & Recreation Commission
meeting to order at 7:32 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Mer�bers Present: Dave Kondrick, Mary Schreiner, Jan Seeger, Dick Young,
Dan Allen
Members Absent: None
0
Ott�ers Present: Char7es Boudreau, Parks & Recreation Director
Jack Kirk, Recreation Supervisor
Bob Schroer, 490 Rice Creek Btvd. (Fridley Norseshoe Club)
Lloyd Henrikson, 2231- Coon Rapids( " " "
Bill Campbell, 7551 Alden Wa,y ( " " "�
Wayne Brandt, 6231 Sunrise Br. (Tiger Hockey Booster Club)
^ Mike Pawlyshyn, President, HAF
Gerald Bethel, 6760 Madison St. N.E. (HAF)
Bob Scott, 7190 Riverview Ter.race (Northeast Chamber)
Betty Scott, 7190 Riverview Terrace (Northeast Chamber)
Ricfiard Kinsman, 6601 Minnewashta Parkway, Excelsior (City Band)
Beverly Kinsman, 6601 Minnewashta Parkway, Excelsior (City Band)
(See attached list)
�PPROVAL OF SEPTEMBER 26, 1983, PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Young, seconded by Ms. Seeger, to approve the Sept. 26, 1983,
a� rTcs & Recreation Commission minutes as written.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Kondrick declared the motion
carried unanimously.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
MOTION by Ms. Schreiner, seconded by Ms. Seeger, to rearrange the agenda in the
�owing order: New Business, Old Business, and Director's Report.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Kondrick declared the motion
carried unanimously.
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PARKS & RECREATION CONMISSION MEETING �OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 2
l. NEW BUSINESS:
a. Tiger Hockey Booster Club (Wayne Brandt)
Mr. Brandt stated he was the past president of the Tiger Hockey Booster
Club. When the Booster Club applied for a softball tournament ]ast
spring, the Commission had made a motion at their April 18, 1983,
meeting "to approve the softball tournament request by the Fridley
Tiger Hockey Booster Club for June 24-25, 1983, but to request that the
Fridley Tiger Hockey Booster Club strongly consider the Fridley Hockey
Association as one of the benefactors of the funds that are raised. In
doing this, future tournaments requested by the Fridley Tiger Hockey
Booster Club can be more enthusiastically supported by the Parks &
Recreation Commission; otherwise, approval of future softball tournaments
may have to be reconsidered".
Mr. Brandt stated the reason he was at the meeting was to explain the
function of the Fridley Tiger Hockey Booster Club. He stated the Booster
Club was formed seven years ago to support and promote and help finance
the Fridley high school hockey program without interfering in any way
with administration of the program by school authorities. He stated that
back when Fridley joined the Lake Conference, the Jr. Varsity (JV) was
only getting 6-10 hours of indoor ice time while practically all the �
other schools in the Lake Conference had their own rinks. If the weather
here was bad, Fridley's JV did not get any practice. So, the Fridley
Tiger Hockey Booster Club was formed strictly to try to finance some way
so the Varsity and Jr. Varsity could get some ice time to be able to
compete with the other schools in the Conference.
Mr. Brandt stated the Booster Club has nothing to do with the HAF, although
there are members in the HAF who have joined the Booster Club knowing
what it was for. He stated they are two different organizations and there
has never been a problem in the past. He stated the HAF has its own
fundraisers. The Booster Club's only fundraiser is the softball toura-
ment held each year. They turn over approx. $2,300 every year to the
high school to buy additional ice time.
Mr. Brandt stated if they lose the chance of getting a softball tourna-
ment each year, then the Booster Club will go down the drain and the kids
will be back where they were seven years ago.
Ms. Schreiner asked Dr. Boudreau to refresh the Commission's memory on
why the Commission members took the action they did in the motion
Mr. 8randt had read to the Cammission.
Dr. Boudreau stated he believed they were looking at the entire hockey
program of Fridley and that if it was beneficial to support the Jr. Varsity,
why wouldn't it be beneficial to support hockey in general throughout the ^
community: The tournament is run on city facilities at some cost to the
City. He thought some of the rationale for the Comnission's action was
that if the Booster Club was using a city facility, if a profit was made,
some of the funds should be reverted back to the local hockey program at
a local level.
�''`� PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 3
Mr. Brandt asked why the City doesn't put a fee on what it.is going to
cost the Booster Club to use the lights and the field for the weekend
tournament. Almost all the other help is donated.
Mr. Kondrick stated the Commission has been looking at that, the cost of
the lighting and maintenance of the fields, and later in the meeting,
they will be discussing a policy for the use of the new Community Park
for softball tournaments.
Dr. Boudreau stated it was not so much that the City wanted the money
but that the Hockey Booster Club share some of the profits made from the
tournaments with the HAF. The HAF also has a hard time buying ice time.
If the Booster Club is organized to boost hockey in the City of Fridley,
why should it just be aimed at the high school level, and not a71 the
way down througf� the younger ages?
Mr. Brandt stated the Booster Club was set up entirely for the high
school itself, because of the inadequacy of the high school's ice time
versus the other schools' ice time. This situation is not going to
improve when Fridley joins the North Suburban Conference. He stated that
if they are going to consider this recommendation from the Comnission,
then they will have to review and rework their by-laws and get together
r with the HAF if that is what it will take in order to have their soft-
ball tournament.
Mr. Mike Pawlyshyn, President of the HAF, stated that a majority of the
people who have been for the Booster Club are parents of players who are
going out and working for that tournament. There are very few people.
associated with the HAF unless they have kids in the Varsity and Jr. Varsity.
He stated he would like to see some money, but it would be like the Booster
Club asking for some of the NAF's profits from fundraisers. It was kind
of unfair.
Dr. Boudreau stated that if they are looking at the betterment of hockey
in the City of Fridley to compete at any level, and they are under the
belief that betterment comes from starting early, why not support the
whole hockey program?
Mr. Brandt agreed that Dr. Boudreau was right. It was a decision the
Booster Club would have to make. He stated he was willing to get the
Booster Club Board and the HAF Board together to ta7k this over.
Mr. Kondrick stated the Commission members certainly app7auded the
efforts of the Booster Club, but they hoped the Booster Club members
would understand where the Commission was coming from on this.
Dr. Boudreau stated that, as Mr. Kondrick had mentioned, one of the topics
later in the meeting was a policy for the use of the Comnunity Park.
�° They are going to discuss the fees for using that faci7ity for softball
'��- tournaments for both profit and non-profit groups and the concession stand.
PARKS & RECREATION COM�ISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 4 ^
Those policies that are developed by the Commission and approved by the
City Council will affect non-profit groups, such as the Fridley Tiger
Hockey Booster Club.
Mr. Young stated he also thought part of the rationale for the Caronission's
motion on April 18 was the fact that when the Booster Club runs a tourna-
ment, it is for the exclusive benefit of approx. 30 kids. That is the
problem the Commission ran into when they had a private softball team
wanting to run a softball tournament where it �as for the exclusive benefit
of those individuals. The City has allowed two of those in the past with
the understanding that those private groups would return some funds back to
the City for the general use of more people. Unfortunately, one group did
not live up to that obligation and the other group decided not to run the
tournament.
Mr. Young stated that when the Jaycees run tournaments, something always
comes back to the City. So, the rationale was that if the Booster Club
would provide some funds from the tournament back to the HAF, they were
in general benefitting the parks and recreation program in the community
as well as a select group at the high school. He stated the Booster Club
might want to take this into consideration in their discussions with the
HAF.
.-o
Mr. Kondrick stated they would provide a copy of the minutes to the Booster
Club so they can find out what discussion occurred regarding the policy
on the use of the Community Park.
Ms. Seeger stated that ff the Booster Club felt strongly about fees, the
Commission would certainly welcome their input.
b. Hockey Association of Fridley (HAF) - Mike Pawlyshyn, President
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated that Mr. Gerald Bethel was also at the meeting.
Mr. Bethel is involved with the HAF's sponsors.
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated the last couple of years they have been having
a problem running their House program. The big reason is the increase
in cost of ice time and also that their fundraisers have not been
escalating.
Mr. Young asked Mr. Pawlyshyn to explain the House program.
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated the House program is composed of the fol7owing
teams: Pony, 2-3 graders; Squirt, 4-5 graders; Peewees, 6-7 graders.
Last year they had a total of 7 teams in the House program and about
14 broomball teams. The HAF is the only hockey association in the district
that handles broomball. Broomball is mainly p7ayed by the girls.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETINGt OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 5
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated that as an association, e�ery year they give out
2 hrs. of free ice time to the younger members in the House program.
They include instructional coaches at this time. They also have H.I.P.
(Hockey Instructional Program). They usually furnish 7 hrs, of ice.
They charge $15 for that 7 hrs. of ice, and there are usually around
15-20 kids participating, so that is always a loss every year for the
HAF.
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated they also give out 3-4 hrs, of ice per team for
practice. At 7 teams, that is 21 hrs, of ice time. So, ice time is
basically what the HAF pays for, not counting the jerseys, mouthguards, etc.
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated the HAF is the only association in Anoka Coanty that
plays their ames outside. Last year Columbia Heights gave its hockey
association �10,000 to run the program. Out of the $10,000, the Columbia
Heights hockey association had to give 50 hrs, of ice back to the House
program. The City of Columbia Heights also gave $6,500 for the traveling
association.
Mr: Pawlyshyn stated that last year they figured out what it was costing
them for each player, and they found out they are losing $17 per player
in the House program,including broomball. He stated the reason they were
at the meeting was to ask the Commission if there was any way the City
could provide more ice hours or financial aid. Presently, they get 12 hrs.
of ice for the play-offs for the House teams and 6 hrs, for broomball.
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated they are spending around $34 per player. Initial
registration is $20. The sponsors usually supply the jerseys, and the
HAF furnishes the mouthguards. The goalee sticks are furnished by the
HAF because they are so expensive. Pucks are also furnished. They try
not to buy new equipment every year, but repair of equipment usually costs
$1,400 per year.
Mr. Kondrick asked what the City is providing to the HAF at this time.
Dr. Boudreau stated the ice maintenance budget for 1984 stands at $46,000.
It covers anything connected with the 10 hockey rinks or the 21 general
areas.
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated the HAF uses 6 of the 10 rinks. He stated that,
basically, they are trying to get the kids more ice time so they don't
have to take money out of the fundraisers and put it into the House program.
He stated they keep records of how many people are in HAF and how many
participate in the fundraisers. Last year out of 100% participants in
the Nouse program and broomball program, about 25� participated in the
fundraisers. About 75� participation in the fundraisers comes from the
traveling teams, and they do not receive any money from the HAF. The
traveling teams get assessed by tF�e district for their games, and they
get assessed by the NAF for their ice practice. So, it can cost a kid on
the traveling team anywhere from $169-269 to play hockey.
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 6
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Ms. Schreiner asked how many kids were involved in the House program
and broomball program. .
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated they had 119 on the traveling teams, and 281 in
the House program and broomball program, for a total of 400.
Mr. Young stated that since so few kids participate in the fundraisers,
he suggested the following approach: The HAF could charge each child
$40; however, if the child participates in the fundraisers, each child
will receive back so much money based on what they do. He asked if that
would serve as an incentive for the child to participate.
Mr. Bethel stated they have done a similar thing for the traveling teams,
because they do have fundraisers to help the boys help their parents with
the assessment. It does work quite well. He stated one other option
which is done by other leagues is to charge more registration and forget
the fundraisers. Some other leagues have rates as high as $60-70, but
there are many who cannot afford that high a registration fee.
Mr. Bethel stated they feel that by moving these younger boys to an
indoor program, it will increase the numbers. Some parents complain
that the boys are too young to play outside. So, they are looking for
some incentive to get the younger boys to participate, and they think one
way of doing it is to offer indoor ice. �
Mr, Young stated that, assuming the HAF could get more ice time, was
there ice time availab7e?
Mr. Pawlyshyn stated ice is hard to get; however, if they know in advance,
they can probably get the extra hours. Lynn Fischer, who buys the ice
for them, would make a big effort to get those hours for the HAF.
Dr. Boudreau stated that right now the City is committed to 18 hrs. of
indoor ice time for play-offs for the HAF. They are also comnitted to
pay the officials:
Broomball (season games) - 1 official at $6/game
Broomball (play-off games) - 2 officials at $12/game
House league (season games) - 1 official at $5/game
Squirt - 1 official at $5/game
Peewee - 1 official at $7/game
When the two Fridley teams were playing combined with Columbia Heights,
the City of Fridley was committed to two officials for Squirt and Peewee.
Squirt - $10
Peewee - $15
Dr. Boudreau stated the City also pays for the play-off officials for ^
house hockey - 2 officials at $6/game. In return the City Council has
established a participation fee of $2/chi7d registered with the HAF.
That money is reimbursed to the City.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETINGLOCTOB�ER 17, 1983 PAGE 7
Dr. Boudreau stated, as he understodd it, Mr. Pawlyshyn is-requesting
that the City purchase more than 18 �rs of indoor ice time. Also, he
is requesting, if possible, that the City supplement tf�e NAF somehow
� for the $17/player that they are los'ing.
Mr. Young stated when he heard the amount of money being paid out for
officials and, out of the $46,000 far ice maintenance, at least half
probably goes for the hockey rink maintenance, he felt when a parent gets
their child involved in the hockey p,rogram, they know it is going to
be expensive in comparison to some olf the other sports. He felt parents
should be expected to pay higher fee�s than they are currently paying.
The City is providing the officials 'and doing basically the same kinds
of things for the HAF as they do for the other sports programs. He did
not think the City of Fridley had th'�e money to help the hockey program
any more than that. '
Mr. Young stated he saw hockey
the HAF to look at what he had
and if that child participates
would be reimbursed.
as an outdoor sport. He would encourage
sugge'sted and possibly charge $40/child
in a';fundraiser, then some of the money
Ms. Schreiner stated she could not e�ven consider this when she thought
� the situation with the Northeast Chamber Ensemble and the Fridley Gity
Band, who are later on the agenda, a�'nd whose funding has been cut down
nothing in two years time. She did �ot think it was right and did not
how they could continue to fund thes�e types of things when groups like
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of
to
see
the N.E. Chamber and the City Band a�re coming to the Commission and asking
how much is being spent on the athletic programs and nothing for other
enrichments in the program.
Dr. Boudreau stated Mr. Kirk had sug�ested the following to help resolve
this request:
1. For the next meeting, Staff look at and compare what the City
allocates for other youth sports and the total dollar expendi-
tures, and the expenditure per participant.
2. Staff look at what other area communities provide for their
youth hockey programs.
Dr. Boudreau stated he and Mr. Kirk�will prepare this information for the
Comnission's consideration for the n�xt meeting. Thts information will
be mailed out early so the Commissidn members can review it before the
meeting. He would invite Mr. Pawlys�hyn back to the next meeting for this
discussion. '
Mr. Kondrick thanked both Mr. Pawlyslhyn and Mr. Bethel for coming to the
meeting. ',
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17� 1983 PAGE 8
c. Horseshoe Club
Mr. Schroer introduced two members of their Steering Coromittee,
Bill Campbell, present President of the Fridley Horseshoe Club, and
Lloyd Henrikson, Director of the State and National Horseshoe Assoc.
Mr. Schroer stated they are at the meeting to get the Comnission's feel-
ings about the Horseshoe Club trying to secure an indoor horseshoe
pitching facility that has been made available. This facility is currently
in existence in the State of Minnesota. He stated he has been in contact
ari th the Anoka County Parks & Recreation and Dr. Boudreau and has talked
to the County. He stated the County wants the club to proceed on a very
limited basis at this time. Mr. Schroer showed the Commission members
some pictures of the facility.
Mr. Schroer stated Mr. Henrikson would give the Commission a little back-
ground on the sport.
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Mr. Henrikson stated the Fridley Horseshoe Club has 174 members, not all
from Fridley. He stated horseshoe is a fun game that everyone can play.
Being an officer for the State Association for six years, they feel horse-
shoe is coming back strong and it brings in a lot of people and bus�ness
to any community where there is a good-sized tournament. In 1981, they
held their world tournament in the small town of Genola , Minnesota. �
According to the Bureau from the State of Minnesota, $12 million of business
was brought into that area. They had 1,211 players over a 10-day period,
It was tfie largest world tournament ever held since horseshoe began.
Mr. Henrickson stated that if they had an indoor area,
horseshoe the year around. This also gives the young
sport to take up. He stated they have their etiquette
first thing they teach is sportsmanship which a lot of
not teach.
Ms. Seeger asked what the ratio was of inen to women.
they would have
people another
on the court. The
other sports do
Mr. Henrikson stated it is about 12 to 1 right now, but it was 24 to l.
Mr. Schroer stated the indoor horseshoe facility would be a year-around
facility, plus there are some outdoor facilities which the City does pro-
vide for them right now. The facility is called the Primesburger Arena
in Genola , Minnesota. It is going to be sold, and the Fridley Norseshoe
Club has inquired about it. They have contacted the County to see if some
land might be available and there might be some available land. With the
City and County working together, it could be purchased and moved down
here for substantially less than it would cost to construct a new facility.
It was his understanding it would be a county-owned building similar to
the ice arena and would be maintained by the County. The facility is
80' x 22' with 19 courts, office facilities, and a meeting room upstairs.
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,%� PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTO�ER 17, 1983 PAGE 9
Mr. Henrikson stated this is the fi�est facility in the world right now
for horseshoe. ' •
Mr. Kondrick stated he thought havi�g an indoor horseshoe faci7ity in the
� City would be a great addition to the parks program.
MOTION by Ms. Schreiner, seconded b� Ms. Seeger, that the Parks &
el� creation Commission has heard theiproposal from the Fridley Horseshoe
Club about the new indoor horseshoe{'facility, The Commission feels it
would be a great addition to the Ci�y of Fridley and wou7d recommend that
City Staff work wi� Anoka Caunty and the Fridley Horseshoe Club regarding
the facility. ',
Mr. Henrikson stated he and his wif� are publicity directors for.horse-
shoe for the whole state of Minneso�a. They hold clinics and organize
new leagues all over the state. Th�y do a lot of promotional-type work.
They feel this year alone they have;brought 300 new players to the sport.
They also give instructional clinic�.
Mr. Campbell stated that until now,',,they have had just officers, but they
�~ are now going to form a board of dir,rectors. They want to get more people
involved, and when they do this, th�y are going to develop other programs,
� one of which will be instruction. ,
Mr. Schroer stated Joe Frank, one o� the Horseshoe Club members, has been
working with the high school studen�s, and a lot of i.nterest has been
shown in the sport.
Ms. Seeger stated she liked the ided that it included every age group.
U on a voice vote aTl votin a e Chair erson Kondrick declared the
motion carrie unanimous y.
Mr. Kondrick thanked Mr. Schroer, Mr. Campbell, and Mr. Henrikson for
coming to the meeting.
d. Northeast Chamber Orchestra and Fridley City Band
Mr. Bob Scott stated he was speaking for the Northeast Chamber. He stated
that last year when they attended ti�e Commission meeting, they were very
impressed with the suggestions made by the Cort�nission members, and because
of it, the Chamber has instituted a number of changes. They are now asking
their members to give a donation. They have set an average of $30, knowing
some cannot give that much, but encouraging some to give more. They have
begun a campaign to raise funds outside the group.
Mr. Scott stated their chagrin in being turned down for funding is that
the present Parks & Recreation Commission seems to support athletics and
� sports, period. They think that is too bad, because there have been other
�.- aspects of recreation in Fridtey for a number of years. They do think
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 10 ^
some support from the City ought to be forthcoming to have.a balanced
program in order to show that the City is interested in something other
than softball and hockey. He was impressed with the people from the
- Fridley Horseshoe Club. He liked to see a variety of ath7etics coming
in where more people of a wider age group can participate.
Mr. Scott stated that the Commission had made the point that when people
participate in other activities, they pay a fee that helps support the
umpires and other direct expenses. On the other hand, the City makes
available ball parks to play in, maintenance of the parks, electricity
for lighting, and a great deal of administrative overhead. So, compared
to those costs, they feel the Northeast Chamber is asking for an extremely
modest sum. They would like the Commission to reconsider their minor
request of $700, which is probably less than 1/10 of the Parks & Recreation
_ total budget.
Mr. Scott stated the Northeast Chamber has played in a number of engage-
ments in and out of the City of Fridley. Wherever they go, they represent
the City of Fridley. He stated he was very impressed with the new plaza.
There is a nice area in the plaza for concerts, and they would like to
play some concerts there.
Mr. Kondrick asked how many performances the Northeast Chamber puts on �
in the City of Fridley each year. ,
Ms. Betty Scott stated there are about 4-6 concerts a year in Fridley.
t�1s. Seeger asked how many total performances were held in and out of
Fridley.
Mr. Scott stated there were 4-8 total performances.
Mr. Young stated that because he had played in a high school band for
many years, he knew there were filing cabinets full of music. Knowing
the Fridley schools did have an orchestra program, had any endeavor been
made to work with Community Education to share music with the Fridley
schools?
Ms. Scott stated they have not. She would guess the orchestra at this
point could not play the type of music the Northeast Chamber plays.
They play harder music than what the high school plavs. She stated it
was a good sugQestion and she would check into it, but she did not think
there would be anything their group could use because the school orchestra
program really never went that far.
Mr, Young stated that other chamber ensembles in the Twin Cities area
must be facing this same problem. Mavbe the Northeast Chamber should
look at organizing a metropolitan library of music for chamber ensembles
that could be used on a shared basis.
/"� PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 11
Ms. Scott stated they have traded music with the St. Anthon,y orchestra;
however, there is a difference in groups. They call themselves a chamber
orchestra, and there is a difference between a symphony and an ensemble in
. the ki nd of mus i c ti�ey pl ay.
Mr. Scott stated they will check with the Fridley schools. Ne stated
some areas do have combined music libraries. The difficulty is there
should be some responsible central agency to do it and one doesn't exist
right now. Without an agency, people are a little hesitant to let go of
a good score because scores are expensive.
Ms. Schreiner stated she was impressed with Mr. Scott's presentation. She
felt the Northeast Char�er had made a lot of effort to try to get them-
selves into position, and they did take the Commission's recommendations.
She felt very badly about what the Comnission had done in the past, but
they had had some philosophical questions about it. She really felt the
Commission should reconsider its position on this. She found it apalling
to see what the City spends on ice maintenance and then �urn down a request
for $700.
Dr. Boudreau referred to the Sept. 27, 1982, Parks & Recreation Commission
minutes, where a motion was made "to recomnend that for both the Northeast
�,.� Chamber and the Fridley City Band, the City continue to underwrite the
cost of the music and supplies ($600 - N.E. Char�er; $500 - City Band),
but only to underwrite one-fourth (1/4) of the directors' salaries--
three months into the coming year which would allow them time to prepare
for the phase-out of the directors' salaries".
Dr. 6oudreau stated they are now talking 1984, and the 1984 budget has
been submitted to the City Council. In the 1984 budget, there is a cate-
gory called "professional services". Was there a way where the City could
contract for the services of the Northeast Chamber and the City Band on
a professional services basis at, for example, $100/concert for concerts
held in Fridley? The City Band does perform six concerts now for the
City of Fridley, and the Northeast Chamber apparently puts on 4-6 concerts
in Fridley.
Mr. Richard Kinsman stated he would like to give a little background on
the City Band. It was formed in 1960 so they have been playing for 23 yrs.
For those 23 yrs., they have played concerts in the summer, one in the
winter, a lot of dedications, several Aquatennial band concerts or parades.
They have always worn their Fridley jackets so Fridley benefits from what
they do. Although the City has contributed to them, they like to think
they have also given the City something in return. Their budget has been
around $1,500/yr, for nearly 23 years. Despite inflation, they felt there
was no need to try to get more money. They have a good library, but it is
nice to expand a little each year. Their biggest expense is their director,
and they really need a professional director.
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 12
Mr. Kinsman stated the City Band has exchanged music with the Fridley
high school, so they feel they have done a lot to keep expenses down.
He stated tfie idea of contracting or playing for a fee was a good idea;
�owever, he did not think $100/concert was enough.
Mr. Kinsman stated that several of their members are wil7ing to pay a fee,
but they cannot charge enough to pay the director's 5alary. He would
suggest $200/concert for six concerts in the summer and one in the winter,
and they would also be available to do other things. He stated he felt
the City Band needs $1,400-7,500 to pay their director arid buy additional
music. They feel the band is a great asset to the City, and he thought
it was great when a city band can play for an event such as the plaza/
community park grand opening on Oct. 7-8.
Ms. Schreiner asked if the City Band has attempted any fundraising efforts
such as the Northeast Chamber has done.
A member of the City Band stated they have tried but have not had any luck.
She stated that because the band has such a heavy sumner schedule, they
are often rehearsing two nights a week for six weeks for the concerts in
the park. This year they played nine concerts--six su►�ner concerts, one
park dedication, one winter concert, and one concert at Village Green.
So, even though they love to play, there is a great demand on their time.
Because the band is able to play outside, it is a little different than the
Northeast Chamber.
Mr. Kinsman stated that if the band was to not survive, it would be
extremely difficult to get it started again when times were better
financially.
Ms. Seeger stated she has always felt the Northeast Chamber and the City
Band contributed greatly to the community, and it was not an area that
should be cut.
Mr. Kondrick stated it was great that the groups were able to perform in
other communities, in nursing homes, etc., and it must give them great
personal satisfaction and joy, but he was particularly concerned about
the number of concerts that are played in Fridley for the people in
Fridley. He would suggest that the City contract for those concerts
that are in Fridley, and then have a maximum of "x" amount of concerts
per year.
Dr. Boudreau suggested the City contract with the Northeast Charr� er for
five concerts a year within the City of Fridley at $150/concert with an
upper limit of $750; and contract with the Fridley City Band for six
concerts in the park at $150/concert with the possibility of three addi-
tional concerts with an upper limit of $1,350.
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Mr. Kinsman stated that was satisfactory to him. �
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PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETINGi OCTOBER 17, �983 PAGE 13
,Mr. Young stated he would vote "no" to this proposal, because as he had
stated last year, when the City of Fridley cannot see fit to feed the
people of Fridley or meet their social needs, he did not see where they
should provide for their cultural benefits. For example, last month 50
families in Fridley were provided food. Fridley has the highest median
income in all of Anoka County. There are 175 families in Fridley who
make over $75,000/yr., which brings the median income up. There is also
more poverty in the City of Fridley than in all of Anoka County. Being
involved in a group for seven years that has fed people, provided them
with clothing, trying to meet their needs, when the City of Fridley cannot
provide $1,500 to help feed people, he could not see feeding them through
their ears. He stated he played in a band for nine years from grade
school, jr, high, high school, and college, so he was not against music.
He hoped the members of the Northeast Chamber and the City Band could
_ understand his feelings and that he could not see paying for music when
the City won't feed people.
Mr. Scott stated he would be willing to take nothing for the Northeast
Chamber if the City would give that $700 to feed the people of Fridley.
He asked if Mr. Young makes the same speech when people come in asking
for money for hockey or for horseshoes or for softball.
� Mr. Young stated they have to understand that the people paying hockey
'are also paying more than $30/yr. to participate in the program. He
stated he also took exception to Mr. Scott's comment that the Parks &
Recreation Commission was totally interested in athletics. If Mr. Scott
was to look at the fall activities brochure, sumner activities brochure,
or any activities brochure put out by the Parks & Recreation Department,
he would see that there was very little in the way of athletics. Ten
years ago, that was true. He believed that out of the 130+ activities
being offered now, maybe 20-25 are athletic. All the rest are in the areas
of handicrafts, cultural activities, etc., so the Parks & Recreation Depart-
ment and the Parks & Recreation Commission are not interested totally in
athletics. He stated that in answer to Mr. Scott's question, he would also
vote "no" to more money for the HAF.
Mr. Allen stated he respected what Mr. Young had to say. He also resented
the implications and insinuations that the Cor�nission is only trying to
run an athletic program. He stated he does have great sympathy for both
the Northeast Chamber and the City Band. He realized the dedication that
went into being a member of either group. He felt the compromise suggested
by Dr. Boudreau of $150/concert was more than fair and was more than he had
expected. He stated he still wondered how much effort has really been made
to raise money. He knew other groups are raising money--he saw it through
his job and while being on this Commission; and he was bewildered at the
lack of being able to raise money for something that seems to be so tre-
mendously important.
� Or. Boudreau stated the philosophy of the Parks & Recreation Department
has always been for a well-rounded recreation program that will run year-
around. He thought that philosophy has been accepted by the Parks &
Recreation Cor�nission as a base for their being. If they are to have a
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 14
well-rounded program, that means athletics and sports, cul�ural arts,
hobbies, clubs, special events, etc., and that is what they are trying
to get their program geared toward. He stated the Parks & Recreation
Department staff and himself as director are directly concerned about
the wide gamut of recreational activities available within the City.
That was the reason for the compromise he had suggested with the full
understanding that it is up to the Commission to make the recommendation.
Mr. Kondrick stated he also resented it when people say all the City's
money goes into athletic-type activities. The City does try to offer a
well-rounded program.
Mr. Scott stated he did want to see the Parks & Recreation Department's
budget and the specifics on it. He did not doubt they had a wide spectrum
of recreation, but he would still like to see where the dollars are going.
He stated the City's compromise was going to work much better for the
City Band than it was for the Northeast Chamber, because they are two
different kinds of organizations.
� Dr. Boudreau stated the city budget will be available to the public either
at City Hall or the Anoka County library right after it is approved by
the City Council.
MOTION by Ms. Schreiner, seconded by Ms. Seeger, that the City of Fridley
enter into an agreement with the Northeast Chamber Orchestra with an upper
limit of 5 concerts in the City of Fridley for the 1984 year at $150/
concert; and with the Fridley City Band for 6 concerts in the park with
an upper limit of 9 total concerts in the City of Fridley at $150/concert.
U on a voice vote Kondrick See er and Schreiner votin a e Youn
voting�nay, and Allen abstaining, Chairperson Kbn riCk eclare the motion
carr�ea.
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Mr. Kondri�k stated he would like to enter into the record a letter he had
just received from Agnes Wolf, member of the Northeast Chamber, requesting
that the Comnission reconsider and perhaps find some dollars for this
organization.
e. Winter Sport Fee Schedule
Mr. Kirk gave the Comnission members a list of the 1983-84 basketball
a nd volleyball fees. He stated there were five fees to be approved.
The increase in fees is approx. 10�. The lowest increase was $5 for the
Couples Fun Volleyball, because there is no cost for officials. The fee
goes strictly for supervision and equipment.
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PARKS & RECREATION CONMISSION MEETING OCTOBER 17 1983 PAGE 15
2.
MOTION by Ms. Schreiner, seconded by Mr.
T�$�$4 basketball and volleyball fees:
Couples Fun Volleyball - $ 50
Women's Volleyball - 160
Men's Fun Basketbal7 - 220
Men's Volleyball - 160
Men's Basketball - 285
(open division)
Allen, to approve•the following
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Kondrick declared the
motion carried unanimously.
OLD BUSINESS:
a. Playground at Rice Creek School
Mr. Kondrick stated he had not gotten any information from the School Board.
Ms. Schreiner stated the property is being put on the market. From what
she has been told, the City Council is ta1king about taking 3 acres of
the property. However, if the property was to be developed into houses
or townhouses, the city only normally requires 70q in park fees or park
land. Since the total property is only 9 acres, there would be a difference
of only lz acres the City would have to buy in order to facilitate it.
She stated this was the status at this point as far as she knew.
Mr. Kondrick stated the Commission should continue to monitor this
situation.
b. Policy - Use of Community Park
Dr. Boudreau stated he and Mr. Kirk had met with Mr. Allen, and Mr. Allen
had prepared an excellent outline for review by the Comnission.
Mr. Allen stated there were mainly four different areas:
1. Priority of who gets to use the facility.
2. A rental charge
3. How of ten the tournaments should be held.
4. Haw the concessions are to be handled.
Mr. Allen stated one consideration was to have deadlines and then stagger
the types of groups applying; for example, r�on-profit groups in Frid?ey
would have from Feb. 7- 15 to sign up for tournaments; all other Fridley
groups would have from Feb. 15 - end of Feb.; any other group after
March 1. This would give Fridley non-profit organizations and other
groups in Fridley first chance. Within that framework, the groups that
had priority for softball tournaments in the past would still have an
inside track to get in.
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING OCTOBER 17 1983 PAGE 16
Mr. Allen stated they were talking about two tournarr�nts a month for
the months of May - Aug., for a total of eight tournaments. He felt it
was a good idea to limit the tournaments because this is something new,
. tbe fields are relatively new, and they don't know what exactly is going
to happen. This would also give residents an opportunity to play on the
fields two weekends a month. It doesn't help the City's image to have
the fields booked every weekend. The two extra weekends would also be
good back-ups for rained-out tournaments.
Mr. Allen stated that as far as the concessions, they are leaning toward
� leasing the operation out and having a professional do the job, They
are planning on having the concessions open during the week for other
activities so they would like to have a professional running it. On week-
ends when groups are having tournaments, they would receive a percentage
of the profits. This would not include the beer, which is probably the
biggest moneymaker. The groups would get the permit and do that themselves.
Mr. Al1en stated that as far as what to charge for tournaments, they were
thinking about $1,000 as a possible figure for. a weekend tournament.
They would charge $500 for a non-profit organization.
Mr. Kirk suggested the possibility of putting on top of the rental fee
an additional $150 that would automatically go back into the youth program �-.,
or parks & recreation fund. Then there wouldn't be the problem like the
situation with the Fridley Tiger Hockey Booster Club. When it is already
built into the fee system, then every group would be treated equally.
Mr. Allen stated that maybe initially the extra money could be earmarked
to go back into the fields until the fields are the way they want them.
Ms. Seeger stated she really liked Mr. Kirk's suggestion. It balances
out and everyone gets treated the same. Why should profit-making groups
make a large profit at the City's expense?
Dr. Boudreau stated that since Coon Rapids is going through this same
thing, he would 7ike to discuss this with their parks department and
commission to see what things they have come up with and what fees they
are talking about. He will bring this information back to the Conmission,
and the Commission can take some action at the next meeting.
c. Policy Ice Location - Dick Young
Mr. Young stated he has not yet finished the drafted policy. Item was
continued until the next meeting.
3. DIRECTOR'S REPORT:
a. ParkjPlaza Grand Opening - Oct. 7-8, 1983
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Dr. Boudreau stated that most of the commissioners were at the grand �
opening on Sat., Oct. $. He stated the grand opening was we71 attended.
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 17
Dr. Boudreau stated something like this really makes their job special
and gratifying. Ne thanked the Cvmmission members for helping put the
total package together and for making Fridley a litt7e better place in
whi ch to 1 i�ve . �
Mr. Young stated that in the 13 years he has lived in Fridley, this is
the first time Fridley has done anything like this. He hoped this type of
thing would continue in the future. It was neat to see peop]e wherever
you went. He stated it was a great day, and he would like to comnend
City Staff for the fine job they did.
Mr. Allen stated he thought it was an incredible task to get a complex
like the Community Park and not have it cost the city any money. The
complex was well thought-out and well designed.
b. Legal Council Opinion re Hockey Rink Helmet Rule
Dr. Boudreau stated the Comnission members had received a copy of the memo
from Mr. Newman recommending against the adoption of a hockey rink helmet
rule because of the difficulty of enforcement and city liability.
MOTION by Mr. Young, seconded by P1r. Allen, to receive the letter dated
Oct. 6, 1983, from Dave Newman, Assistant City Attorney.
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Kondrick declared the
motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Young stated that after reading Mr.Newman's memo, he agreed
it was a not a rule or regulation the City could institute, but he thought
they.should consider putting up a sign recommending that helmets be worn
at all times on or near the hockey rinks.
MOTION by Mr, Young, seconded by Ms. Seeger, that in reviewing the Asst.
City Attorney's legal opinion that the City not haYe a set policy requiring
helmets at city rinks, the Parks & Recreation Commission recommends that
signs be posted at the rinks strongly recorr�nnending the use of helmets on
or by the hockey rinks at all times. �
Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Kondrick declared the
motion carried unanimously.
c. Springbrook Nature Center Anniversary Program
Dr. Boudreau stated that Springbrook Nature Center had an anniversary
program in conjunction with the plaza/community park grand opening.
It was very successful. Mayor Nee recei�ed a plaque from the Springbrook
Nature Center Foundation listing all the contributors to the program.
The plaque will be on display at the Nature Center in a place of honor.
PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING, OCTOBER 17, 1983 PAGE 18
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Mr. Allen, seconded by Ms. Seeger, to
voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Kondrick
Parks & Recreation Comnission meeting adjourned
Respectfully subm'tted,
Lynn Saba
Recording Secretary
adjourn the meeting. Upon a
declared the October 17, 1983,
at 11:00 p.m.
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