02/11/1963 - 00023397i��
SPECIAL rpUnrCIL P�1EETInTG - FEB�UARY 11, 1963 (7:30 P. N�.)
A Special Meeting of the City Council of L-he City of Fr�dley was called to order
by Mayor Nee at 8:03 P. M.
ROLL CALL:
� Me�bers Present:
Members Absenti:
NEW BUSINESS_
�
Brook� Johanson� Pdee
Sheridan� Wolke
DISCUSSION WITH CITIZ�NS COMMITI'FE AND ARCHITGCT:
Mayor Nee announced that mee-.-�ng had bcen called of' a'oove groups to present f�nd-
ings of Citizens Committee and ho13 a general discussion meeting with Smiley and
Aesociates, �rchitieci,s. Present for the C�tlzens Committee *aere Mr. Rot. A^,lnder
and NIr, Paul Barrow of zhe Architectural Commiitee, Mrs. Barbara HuPhes of the
Publicity and PuUlic Relations Committee and Mrs. Sue Miskoti�ic, Secreta'ry of the
Coordlnating Comm2ttee.
Ch�ef Robert fiu6hes of the Fire Department gave a complece report re�arding nis
department; flre equipm°nt noa on order, space needed, sLe�lls that had been re-
quested (�hree), additlonal space that iaould be required, f�re underwriter proU-
lems, locat�on oti buildinp� etc. A general discu�vlon f'ol7oi�ed re�ar��n�; this
reporti by Mr. Hugnes. Mr. Smiley s�td lti �aculd be difficult, a1, i,h�s tlme, i,o
know the i'easibility of expanding space into the fuzure fire needs Por the com-
munity and zahether it can be done for the funds +hat have been allocated. He
stated that the fire station was the only structure tnat was fronting on Unl-
versity Avenue� that it *night m�ke parkii�g less accesszble bec�_use some o; the
parking might be cut of£. These matters would have to be loo}_ed at, he said,
Prora tre standposnt not only ?"rom the Pire hall and preseni; equipmenl. building
but the true plan of the Clt,y Hall. Mr. Nlinder stat�d thai, the basic Uuildin�
uas lePt the same, Fur�her discussson was held on the developmenc o= the
present site, the conversion of the ouilding boLh to the fire and policc- needs.
ti1r. Smlley stated tihe committee had consunied all the site with paxk�n� area�
Mr. T�?inder replied this had been neceseary a d it ;aae the consensus of the com=
mittee to etart someplace clse but in doinb that� you would ha�re to do sway c�ith
everything ,ycu have produced� economles �re agalnst that with iavestment cii,y
presently has in area� that the present building is well constructed. E1 general
discussion was also held on how coimnittee n�d pro,7ected price on nain floor �nd
basement area and how St. Louis Park had arrived at their i�gures.
Mr. Molinaro� tihe Civil Defence ➢irector, was preseuL- regard�ng space allotted
�or their use, Mr. Minder stated the Commlttee had felt the Council sl�ould ie-
commend to the Archii.ect the po�sibility ef eetting i'ederal mon�es and} if so,
aould it be feasible to go into. Mr. Smiley sti�zed that he would spend some
time with ?+!r. Rlolinaro to see lf Fridiey shoulcl submit plans for funds a�railable.
Discussion was also held on outside appearance of buildings} should appearance
be �dentical, ve»eering, should equipmeny garzge be dropped, etc.
Motion by Johanson to authorize Smiley and Associates� Inc. to prepare a rough
preliminary plan, based on the recommendatiors oF the Coordinating Commlttee,
Seconded by Brook. Upon a voice vote� there being no nays, the motion carrled
� unanimously.
P�ot�oi� by Brook to autihorize a special r,�eetir_g wi�h Coordznating Commi�tee ai�d
Smiley and Associates� Inc.� the 20th of February; 1963 at tihe Fridley City
Hal1 at � P.M. Seconced by Johanson. Upon a vo�ce vote, there bein� uo naysa
the motion carried unanimously.
biayor Nee gave a vote of tnanks to all who had attended, Mr. 7ane Mann of
Phlers-Mann and Associates, Inc.� was preseat and gave a short report, of price
of taxes per home for new Civic Center based on old valuation. He stated, that
perhaps, his figures o�ere incorrect ta a degree but thati wh�n eves•yth�ng "settled
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dou�n" they would dra�i a graph of assessed value f'or the Clty Council. He stated
that the election should be on a figure that would �uy landa buildings� and all.
A gener�l dlscussio❑ was held by Council and Mr. Mann on how monies can be made
available, froin liquor iund, etc.
FIRE DEPAP,TM[;NT FiECyUEST FOR Pn[1P5 IPT FIRE STATION AND FIRE TRUCKS:
Chiel Robert IIu�hes stated he =aould like to have space il� the Fire Hall f'or a
map, set up by the engineering department. He stated that e�ch vehicle should
carry a book mapped out in districts� that tr�e department was havzng a problem �
with fir.ding new streets when they are called out on fires. He stated that he
weauld llke to have the engineering department draw up the city into districts
anc] put on names and streets and continue addang these to books that would be
kept �n trucks, i�he Citiy bSanager stated that the engineerir.g department would
be glad to wor'=� out ��hat Mr. Hughes wanted.
APPONTMENTS TO COMMITTEES (TABLFD 1�7�63 APtD 1�21�63 APdD 2��+�63):
Motion by Johanson to appoint Dr. John Wright to the Parks And Playgrounds Sub-
Committee replacing Clyde Strong on a three year appointment. Seconded by Brook.
Upon a voice vote� there berng no nays, the motion carried unanlmously.
BILI� FOR BOlTD SALE - P,HLERS-MANN AP]D ASSOCIA7�S:
b4otion by Johanson to approve the pay�nent to Ehlers-Mann & Associates in the
amount of $5yF�50.00 v�ith regard to sale and issuance of �i990,000.00 Improvement
Bonds of 1963, and �150,000.00 Park Bonds of 1963. Seconded by Brook. Upon a
voice vote, there being no nay�� the rnotion carried unantmously.
REPORT OF SCWER CONSTRUCTIOAt (TABLED 2�4�63):
Nr. �, V. Comstock of tihe firm of Comstock and Davis, Inc.� was present and �
read �:o Cit,y Council a two page report of recommendations with regard to sewer
construction on Mississlppi Street and Cheri Lane and Methods that could be
used �o L-ake care oF problems, also, the processes used in repairs. He ex-
plalned tnaL when well points were put down intc a pipe� it sealed up large
leaks but emall leaks �aere more easily handled from the �nside of the pipe.
He stated this ��as recommended because there is the possibility oS movement of
the soil and this would attempt to eliminate that. He expl�ined there are ttao
companies who do this klnd of work and they are Soil Solidifiers� Inc. aud
American Pioe Cleaning. The,y photograph the area at the same time they ara
putting the solution into the well point. He also explained tihat� at this time,
zt T�ould be impowsible to say in 3ollars and cents how much it would cost, to do
this worlc because a great deal would depei7d on soil conc�itions� weather� etc.
The queetion was asked �f this method would take care of the problem on Cheri
Lane and Mr. Ccmetock said th�t it wouldn't, that Cheri Lane would have to be
an open cut.
Councilm�n Brook sald he ��ished to lznow who was going to pay for this job on
Cherl Lane and elso on Niissieslppi Street and whpse fault it w�s-the contractor's
or thE consult�ng engineer's. These w�re� he felt, whaz the Council was pr�-
ma-rily interested in. Mr. Comstock stated that t.hey had given their thougt�ts
on it and had glven the Council a report which was an explanation oi' the facts.
Councilman Brook said he felt it i�as quzte a cost to ta'�e care of all of these
repaire. He also stated that c,hen the ground is open� the consul�ing engineers
for the Clty or their i,nspectors chould be able to advlse as to the condition of ;
the soil and if the}= had had an inspector on the �ob� he should have known the
cor,dltion of this ground. If Lametti, tne contractor, had inspectors� the�r
sh�uld have eound the same conditian. Councilman Brook, saxd he felt this was
especially true on Mississippi Street� that thls psrticular pipe was down and
pushed to the North and he had seen this. He etated that he belietied the men
on the ,7ob could see lt and zha+ the pipe was �ctually broken. The question ivas
raisecl ae to Yahat *�+as the cause oi thzs, movement of Lhe earth or somethin� else?
Mr. Comstock stated thac he had seen this pro�ect on or about the 17th of Sep-
tember but that he would uot be able to te11 �f the line had move3 or not, but
that the reason could be because they h�d a drag line for a back hoe on the �ob
and a deep ditch had been clu� next to the pipe. He said he bad �siced everybod,y
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on i:his pro�ecc tahether they could show ham �,ahere i;his plpe line deFlected aod
that he dzdn't have any answer to that yet, but this ^ould hazre been caueed by
ditch digging oo �he side, Councilman Brock ;;sked ",hy it had been dug up in
the i?ret place aad Mr. Comstocle stated hF Faasn't eure, Gauncilma� Bcoolc sti�ted
it, was a matter of iact, if tlie pipe was �zr,i�ht� u�hy would it have been dug up,
that Zc muut have been bro'.:en. Mr. Comstock anstaercd bTJ staLin� that �here �ras
no question about it� there was a break 1n z:�e ]ice.
Cou��cilman Johanson raised {.he question of what �{zcl Lhe pictures sho�� to City
En�ineer Brown and was told the pictures show there are more sags alorig the line.
� C�tancilman Bxook stated that on the particulai �ob ii, q�estion on Ar�ssissip�i
Street, that, the contractor and the consulting eu�;�neers are respo�isibie for this
�ob and he dldn't �elleve the City of Fr�dley .houlcl �ay for it.
I;, was stated that �n thn Cheri I�ane 1i*_le there hace beea eight breaks �n less
than a year and thzt Lametti and Sons dtd repair and Lu'um�tted a bill for �i5700.00.
Ctity Eng�neer Bro4in stai;ad �hat he had read a2d heard avout eQi� solidif�catiion
but that it costG $500.00 or �1000.00 �7ast to rome in �nd set up and they don'c
guarar.i,ee the Uiork, Ma,yox� Nee asked lI' there is an5� Listory on how long a,70�
o� eoil solidifica�ton stands up. Mr. Com.tock �°eplied thaC it depended on ho�.e
succesc�"ul tre ,7ob wa�. Ci�,y ,sng�neer Brown stated the only quesC�ons that he
had �aere whaz �ass i;he condition the line w�s bu�]t o�, th�� he had been i,old at
one zime the l�ne was d'ry and Mr. F{nktson tiad told him �i. cias wet at the t�me I�e
was told at wzs dry.
Mr, Lametti had said he had recommenc�ed cast i�°on �t the t�me. Councilman Broolc
asked if there v��re any speciFic ti,orli crders on this pro�ect ancl was told there
�•zere aone. Sie also raised the questzon of was ti�ere am� casT zrnn p�p� 1alc� a1�d
upon b°inn told there was stated that there must have been a reasoe for 1L. COU(1-
cilman Brook si,atec that on tl�e original b3��, it aas part cast iron ati�d pari; clay
plpe and inquired of the reason. NIr. Coms�ock stated it wae used in L-he are� where
the consultiilg engineers had zelt it s�as necessary. Ci�y Engineer i�rown reviewed
for the Counr_il when the breaks had occurrcd aud explained regardzng 7�epairs, ezc.
Mayor ldee inquired why the contractox Lametti �,�as wllling to accept the 'reeporsi-
bslity for the third break, Couneilma❑ Johanso�� sta�ed he felt it wa° apparent
� that Lamettl ;�as right in the first place regaxdin� the caat iron plpe, beczuse
that was what he had wanted to put ln then. Cit;y Pnsineer Brown stated the only
que�tion he had w�a whether this type of soil condltion should have iron pipe as a
matter of course, tihat �he cositzactor Lametti had only si,ated verbally re�arding
the cast iron pipe, that it vras never put i❑ *iriting.
Mr. Comstock stated that there �aas no cuestioa that r,he contractor o,arited to do
the whole �ob in caet 7ron pipe. He said he did not disagree tiaith this. The_r2
are three or �'our block� that ��-e in clay �n tntis nro,7ecc and, ne scated, �here
was n� problem onth t'�em. The repair an the i'irst break had caused al1 oi' the
� brealss. Tne pro,7ect had pa�sed all the testis that were subjected to it, with re-
presentatives from the City and consulting engineeYS present. Councilman Johanson
remarked that the Council had heard �rom the consultiin�� iirm� Comstock and Davis,
Inc.� but thati the contractor Lametti had not ap�+eared and, he felt, Cow�cil would
have to consult with City Mana�er and Gity �lttorney io make a decision on this
matter, Mx. Comstock explained that the contractor had splat into two firms since
the firsti of the ye�r but that the records would be auailable soon and he would malie
a complete report �s snon as pose�ble. Councilman Johanson Gtated this would
probably let the Council know where to �nrn to on the Cher� Lane Job and he felt
it was a good lclea to have a photograpY�er on �he Cheri Lane Job also, IIe also
stated that Council should authorize the repair o� thls immediately and asked if
the Council would Lave to advertlse for bids. Tne Ci-ay P�fan�ger stated this would
not be necessar,y on an emergency basis. City Fnglnaer Brotirn stated they �ro�ld
have to get pictures of job beFore a.t wae disturbed to show proof that ihey were
not dzsturbing it.
� It V;as explaaned that soil Golidification �eould have to be used r�nd �his process
wa: explained in detail. It 4�as aleo expleired thaz soil solidification would not
guarantee the �ob zahen the breali was too large. Councilman Johanson inc�uired if zhe
balance o� this report could "ne ready ior the next meeting. Mayor 1\ree asked it'
the Councll would rather refer it ta the 20 rebru�ry mceting or the 1G February.
Motion by Broo1= to proceed wii,h the repair on Cheri Lane, to authorize aod airect
the City En�aneer to take steps necessary to ePfectuate tY!e repa-±r and acquire
necessary research material on an emergency basls. Seconded by Johanson. Upon a
voice vote, there bezng no nays, the motion carried unanimousl5�. It was gene-rally
der_lded to set up a further discussaon on the 20th of February.
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➢ISCUSSIOAi OP COPTTRACT LTITH COMSTOCK AND DAVIS, INC.:
The City Manager explained the bas�cs af the agreement that Mr. Comstock, City
Eagineer Brown and he had worked on. Mr. Cometock stated th�t if thie mas what
the Council U�anted ln a contract, then they waated another consulting engineer.
Clty Eingineer Brown read portions from old contract with engineering iirm that
read in sanie fashion. The City Manager stated that in goin� over the material
the,y had f�lt ihls agreement had bee❑ �urely basic and had tried to eliminate as
much material as possible.
Mayor l�ee ralsed the question of what dld residential supervision mean and City �
Engir�eer Broan stated it was a matter of judgment ou how mucih inspection you
have and i� depends on the type of work and what is being done at the moment.
Mayor Nee was tiold when he raisecl quescion oi how was this agreement differei7t
irom what F'ridley had that they had merely zried to consolidate the agreement.
Mr. Comstock stated he didil't lino�� how they could warantee that the City En-
gineer ai2d thc City Manager could approve and accept their work. He said he
felt this should be some klnd oF directive rather than be put in the contract.
i�e stated he didn't know hoti� they could guaran�y anything, being a third pzrty.
It was generally agreed to eliminate the words ��and approval'� in Article IV of
the Agreement. City Attorney Kohlan intierceded to state that i.his was supposed
to be pux•ely a procedurai revision, that there were no 1ega1 rights connected
w�th it whatsoever. The City Manager stated that he had been told the Council
wanted evcrything to go through tl�e City Fngineer, that they could advise him
at what point they w�nted him to submit something to the Councll that had been
given him for review. fie stated that he, Mr. Comstock and City Engineer were
in agreement around the baslc premises drawn short and eesily administered.
There was a question raised by Mr. Comstock about Article II� IteM 2 oi Agreement.
He stated that the same item was incorrect in 1,he present contract. It was in
regard tio revie��ing and awarding zhe coi�Lracte and Mr. Comstock didn't feel iC
was part of the specifications. Mayor Nee acked Mr. ComGtock for a review of
percentages and �aas told �,here is about 20°�0 of the baslc fee on preliminary re-
ports, plzns and specificatio�s pay about 66%� general svpervision pays about
20�o but that the compensation ls� �n �ny event, 5ro of the eonstruction. Mr. '
Comstock statecl it belon�s outside tre plane and specifications. It is not
bas°d o� waiting three or i'our years until the contract is awarded. !1 general
discussion folYowed on all a-rticles la agreement being explained by the City
Manages and Mr•. Comstock, coneultzng engineer. Mr. Comstock explained that he
nldn't i'eel the general eupervlsion should be done by anyone other than the per-
sons who draw the plans and specliications. He stated he had no ob,7ections to
terminatang at the end of a preliminary report. A1so, there should be something
in the contrac� that should sap that the general supervision and the plans and
specliicatlons, ii' they °ollo�� in reasouable or3erly tashion� that general super-
vislon should be part oP the services used,
The City Manager stated that thc Council iiad directed him� with the City Pngineer
and Consulting enginee-r, to draw up a set ci suggestions and� ii' these were accept-
able, t17ey could authorize setting it up in this manner. Mayor Nee stated they
�ust wanted to talk about the concepts.
Mr, Comsi.ock reCerred also to a system he had orlginally suggested with City� tha+
being, tih�L- personnel u�ed for reeldenti�l supervision be employed by the City�
with City Maeager and C�_ty Engineer and Consult�ng Engineer pre�ent at the time
they are employed. They would be consldered City pereonnel but that both the
City and conGulting engineers could use them, the only difficulty being that a
longc-r pex�od vould be n�cessary on ordering residentiel supervieion, the better
they would be able to be prepared. Every time an lrnprovemeat is to go in you have
a revie�a of personnel, wages would be seti depeuding on persoti's quallFic�tions.
I� would�i`t be a standard �ob.
Councilman Johansor, etated r,hat in the pasi. he had heard that addition�l znspection �
coul� be charged Uack to the contractor and was �his true. Mr. Comstoc� stated
that it tiaas partiiall,y true. This is sorriething the City could enforce. City E:�-
gineer Brown raised the questlon to City Attorney Kohlan -"shculd the City notlfy
the contractor it is going to exerczse �his"? He was told this was the reason the
provision for llcuididating damag�s is inserted� thls was �ahat they should do.
Mr. Comstock eaid that somet�mes with a penalty, it might be necessary 1�o prove
that you are damaged.
The City Manager asked the City Council what they thought about the Agreement up
to thls noiiit. Councilman Johansori sald it looked good to him. The City Manager
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stated that �t would be �uei; a matter of the C�ty AtLoxney drawing up the Fgree-
ment into final iorm. Mayor Nee raiaed the question under "Special Services" of
the agreernent, was this to dupllcate something �hat was possibly covered else-
where. The C�ty PRaaa�er said it was only uhen a speclal tiaork order had �o be
iscued that this was u=ed and that there iaoull L-e iees to cover tnis type oi' �;hing.
Mr. Comstock said he didn"t know if they could hold someoize in readiness Lmde'r
tt�is phase and that, perhaps� this should includ.e �eceptauce by the consulting
engineer.
� Mayor Nee stated that one of the things that had b�the-red him in the lasti i,wo ,years
c�as thut thin�s i,hat tney hadn't even seen had come in at �he l�asl; moment foi zhe
Council to pass on. He �tated that the Council doesn'c have an overall view and
th�t, he i'elt� there had been some errors in stagang, Some tihings have gone too
favt and some have been out oF �ear. He �tatied thati t71e Ci�;,y Couucil dzdn'ti
have an over-a11 view of any situation and he would 1i1re l,o have tne Cticy Eno�neer
more closely involved ln �;he entire procecs. it would be to I;he advantagc of the
City Council to he=re City Engineer use his discreesion on material coming in,
change orders and thai. type of thin�� he said. He stated tihat he would ,7us� as
soon hear from City En�ineer and his viewpoints ae consulting engineers on �obs,
Councilman Brook agreed iaith ��hat Mayoi'Plee had stated, that lf consulting en-
gineers came in with plans, et¢. Couizcil sliould be �ble to turn tio Ci-cy Engineer
an3 ask him -"is this read�� to proceed with?"
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Mayor ldee raised the question to Mr, Com.tock thaz he dtidn't 11ke �et�in� a de-
siga £or Petexson Developers from Comstock and Davis, Inc,J and was this unrea-
son�ble that the Clty Council say tihe consulr,y�g eaglneer cannot deslgn Por de-
velopers in the City. Mr. Comstiock etated �:his particular �ob snouldn'ti have
happened ar,d 1t �aouldn't a�ain. The pro�ec� for Mr. Iiowarcl C��abtree was mentioned
and the work that Comstoc]s and Davis, Inc.� had done and Mr. Con�stock stai;ed that
l2e didn't kno�a anyth�ng about ic. D4r. Comstocl= eteted that they had agreed �ney
weren't to do anfthing in the City of Fradley, thai; appeared 1;e be a conflict.
Origin311y� they �,ere handling the plat revzez� and had done a couple of small ones,
he said� 6ut it wasn't quite =0 6ad tecause the City �ngineer rev�ewed the plats.
He si,ated he had attempi,ed l,o stop al1 �his Lype oi' thing.
I�DJOIIRDTNENT:
There being no further business, Mayor Nce declared the meeting ad�our�ecl.
Reepectfully �ubmitted•
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— C _.<�'�-t �—F —.�Ce".�.-e�f/'��
Su� Miskowic
Secretwry to the Council
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+Iayor - 'v,Iilli i J. Nee
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