The URL can be used to link to this page

08/19/1963 - 00023189�— <.� e �� ; REGUI�AR COITIdCIT, MEETSNG - AUGUST 19� 1963 � ' � A regular'�uieetin� oi' the City Couricil oP tlie C�ty o� �'ridlc-y tans ca]led 1;0 order by Mayorl Nee at 8:10 P.r�. at Iiayes �chool �n Pridley. , ROLL CAT.L: � � Meml�ers Pr"esent: Nee� Joh�n��oi7� Sheridan, �n�ollce, Bre�olc arrlv�=d rai, (;•2" P.P9. Membere Absent: Idone APPROVAL' OF MINUTES - REGUI,AP, MCETING, AUGU�`1' S, 1963: Motion �by SOhansdn to eppx�ove the rn2nutee of the Regular Neetin��, o� Augusi, j, 1963 as pFepared ¢nd received. Seconded by Wolke. Upon a v�ire vuL�, therc being no nays,�the motion carried unanimausly. NEW BUSTNESS: PUBLIC HEARING -�69�+ OUTFf!LL A1W PdORTH U�'N[.RSI`I'Y WATI+,RSFILD Ditfl71`JI�GG• Mayor Pdee announced this was a public heartn�; on Ef 6914 Outfall a�nc9 t.he 1Qorth Universi�ty Water'shed Drainage plan. The City Mana�er read lhe PIof,LC� of Ilear- ing on ,the Tmprovement. Mayor Nee explained tlie m�nner ii1 wLicli the public hearing would' be held and statzd this hearinp, ha�l considerable s�pru Ficance in that not only was it quite �xpensive but a c7•il,ic�l decision alcu <<ii�i o»F oP tlie lar�,er decisions of the City Counc�l th1:, year. In expL�u��iun, l�e stated it wes proposed to have the City Council 3nd i,he stafF r:;p]<<n� the pro�ect'and th,en questions would be answered f'roiu the audience on poinLs tha1; were�une�ear as far as the pro,7ect was con�Frie�l Folloving Y,liat� i,he C�t� Council would consider the etai,ements in support, oF �nd opposLtion to the pro,7ect ahd stated they would �refer enfbrcin€�, rules which Y•equir•ed Lhai a c�tizen qould have the floor once only untl] all interested pi3rttes l�ad Leen heard. He iurther explalned �hat Followin�, st�temeni.� Prorn thP ��Lidi�ncc, i,he City Council'would decide c�hether to contir�ue or to clo�e �lu s piablic hearing� that �here are certain problems in that, the L'ii.y Councll could noL give precise figures on what thls projeci, ��ould cost on any �iven piece af property as there are unsettled quest�ons m*arciing ne�otiations vith t,he Columbia He3�;hts Council and application of sorne Sr,ai,e Aid Funds L�� m;al.e it unwise to`sa,y what they would settle for and� inr i,hi,s reason, r�tizen� could not be given specific statements thls evening �ind the City Counr.�l ir,��,hL de- cide�'to continue this hearing. , The City Manager stated that about a year previous it was ruled i,h��6 muni- cipalitie��must give notice to all pereons involved. This he<�ring, Lecaiir_�_ oF the time e�.ement invo.lved� �ras set up �s far as le�al process was cnn- cerned� somewhat hastily;� ln order to be certain that everybod,y wl�o mip;hi have an interest in this si.orm sewer must be notiified� the dratna�e �l�si.rict wae made considerably larger than the one to �e actually used and the Ci�y Clerlc's Officea in a short time� had to come up U��th better tl,au 2,000 pro- perty holders �'or a msiling and the ass�;�ment area is mur]i la�°��,r �- l,li.in it wi11 be in thc £i,nal e.nalysts. `l'he City Manager pre�enl.e�] a tnap a�� l�oeaed the actual ares to be assessed and explainod �ame. Mayor Nee explained thi� plan hs3 U�en under sturly for sevesal yea�s, tiiii,l��r, there h�ad been' a public hearing on i,his itieni t;ao ��ears previon: in �ahicl� the �; project was approved and final plans and specs ord�red but ��au not, co�i;Lructed at that time and no�� due to {.he p�ssin� of tirne, the City L'ou��cil lir�d decided it would 6e wi'se to hold a public Yiearinq a�ain and pxoceed iii Ltii;� mam�er. Councilman Sheridan explained there is a�enera] need i'or storm sFw�r;� �n au� community� that � raw piece oF land once the own�r l�uilds a horrc� I,h� sldo- walk� driveway� e�c.� increased tYie run-otf in ihis �iven area mai�� old. Drainage� it was explained� tis reqnired t.o develop the streets to an ittl,en- siVO'system and fOr that development� ii. is necessary i;o have a si,osm dsaina.�e prograM; that in most cases when the eng�neers do design {,he ,tr•eet�� tlie Cit�r �� Council aLLen�p�,a i:o carry i;hc i�ater as iar ae �hey can over tlio'�suriaGe� ,thus �°educ�nfr L�� storm sewer in ar�y �iven area. This alway� depends�on the situa- Cion, hov ��any Feeti iL carr�es across the surCace. The prol�lems that are � associai�d wil,h r,eneral storv� drainage� it was explained� are,swamps� 6ogs� etc., mosquJtoes, rats� c�eeds, and unsightly lnndscape will �et pr,ogressively worsp �nd iiidurti^ial developmen{, tialll be impeded unless dxairiage is pravided. Councilm�n Sheridan Purther staLed that the CiLy o£ Pridley and the klinnesota ]ii�hz„a�� Pe��ari,meni; had been working on this pro,7ect for over ihxee and one- half �,c�i� and the ultima�e tis i.he pavin�; of Htiphway ��100 and University � Av�nu� ��liich �e Aighway ��+j �nd {his was one oC i:he reasons this matter was hrou�hl i,o alt,e�tion at i,he pr�e2nt �ime. TIe furt;hor explained there wae a � n�erl L" Cini^}� ilst Avenue and 7th Street fx�oin „�E94 North to Miseissippi SlrPet pli�s tl�e cit,y uttiliti�e t]iemeelves need drainage in this area. Another area LI�aI, is � parb of this �roblen� �s the Sylvan Hi11s area. '�' Mayor Pdee =taLed the City Courzezl taae faced wiLh the problem' whieh" is gener- a ted b�� Lho rleve I opment of 5�(�3�i an�l Universit,y AveT�ue and Minnesota HighWay DeparLo�eitt lias ou�d Lhai, FrLdle�; chou]_d do it now or for�et, it. ,Mayor Ne� nnnounced Mr. D4cC;ubrPy oL the P�Sinnesota Statc Highway Department would ex- pla,in plans. I � Mr. MoCuhrF�y expLa2ned that far i�e71 over a few years� they had be�n��glsnning �aor1c for ��i9�+ which is a parl of the great 1�4,000 mile system of intarsta'te ' 1��n,Lway I'r�eza�v t,hrougllout i,h� Un��,ed �>�at,es. 'Phis enti�e pro�am�,��.t was Pxplaiiio�l �r_ Lo Le completerl hy ]972 nnd h9�unetiota has ebout j00 mYTes in thc fr��,�ay �y�Lem. 'Po be�;in cnth, �r6914 will be a freeway with four, lanes and �11 movemF�iits will be by tia,y oi' tinterchauges and so Central Auetlue a;t�d tiniversit,,y Avoo�a� w}�ich are very importexat and combined with �he,,drainage , vhych thc Higt�wr�y Departme��L muet r,iov� from the area of the ireewa�.�� There iill hc � cont,iacE L-o be asa�rded on Universit;y Avenue uext July. �He further ;La�c�� I,h�� impoi tance oF thie drainage is if the City drainage wese not, com- �� i ned °>> {,li 1 hr� ; Latc� then nc� C� t-� syetem would be much moxe i cos ��y and especi�777 ��o Lc� the local munic�palaty, �Phe Cit,y of Eridley'is�now,able to �loin 2�i otiFr�izin�, and pa,y i,ltc difi'erence in th�s storm drai�age problem. , Pir. McCuoi°�•; explained they had moved the contrac� bacic to November,,because oC ne�otaat�on� nith Columb2a IIeight;s but; were arix2ous to ge�'�,the �job do�te and �annl.ccl to �;c„ this por�i��n undcr way a5 soon as possible. , , A1��,�m• "I�c rrquest,ed tY�al, h7x•. Comstocl;, consultin� engineer� explain'the tt�o, pro,7�_ci,G hr�FOre bhls public hearing. Mr. Comstoclt explained this pro�jec�,is d;v�d�d lnto two basic areae Pox r�torm �ewer conetruction'.' T11��'ixst,phase, �� one ti�a1. �nvolve;, ��694 and explained area on'map� which wae,ydrawn in blue l�n�c. fTc �;:p]�ined i11e heavy hl�ie lines from Mzssissippi Riyen to',the be- g�nnr�f�, nf ihc� �nterchangP oP ��694 end ��7 is the outfall whieh wil], be used by the �nl ue area shoom in r�d on t,he map and smaller blue�l#ne, which runs from j?nd �venuc will be usecl �lo�ntly by M�nnesota Iiighway De�tsrtmept�, City oL Fr�dl�y �nd Columbia Heigh{,o, �Y�e estimated cost fox the $��e�'�ihase ie $'��E4,0�0.00. Iic expl�ined Lhe cxiGtin� storni eewar conduit on �the� map� shown as a blad: l�ne; also� thaf, plane that have been developed mutUalZy,contem- plate 1��r�� h�s line Lo iF: fu11 capac�ty. Esistin� storm conduit was ex- plained in deta�l; that storm sewer tras conct�^ucted in 1954 and 1955• �'� Comsiar}c tYie;n explained the arett commonl,y refcrred to as the N,oY'th University Wal.ershed Di,trict and Storm S�wer Project �f5 and explained t�iis projeet was ordercd �n 1�G0 and this ie only a portion of t1�e pxoject of the h2erin� conQucted �n 19�0. Iie further explained the mau� trunk sewer neces5ary for storm sev�ei conet.ruction runs up Unrrersity to 63rd Avenue and'the estimated casL of �tn° facility is 1{�?_'71,000.00. The stuUs running East end�,West of 1,1,�s 7_�ne ar� for tl�e future exLCnsive laterals systems and axe' riecessary to conetruct lo allow the Iii�;hway Depari,ment i,o proceed and noi: involve the ful,ure laterals. The cost of i,he�e s{,ubs ic estimated at �11�000.00. The Sy]van Ilills �verflow was er.pla�ned which connects the pond,'a�ea to the con- du�t. Tl�e esY,imated coet oi t,his line is $15,000,00; �hat� a°l:,o iACluded in Lh�� ar�a ie a piece of consLruct�on which now exists on 61st Avenue which, zs userl i�r a water filtrati�n plant backwash water overflo�; the coat of i,hese lineG is �'>3]5,000.00 and this includes items mentioned'plue,the overflow. 'CheeP 1'��;Ures, l� �aas explain�d� include construction coats as';Wei1' as mie- ce]laneou� itFms oi cost. An outline was preseni,ed which included'the storm system ot r_ondui{, which would be necessary. Ii,taas explained tihat some of , 1,hese are er.i�tin� storm sewer condUit a,nd some are proposed ays�tem; whi�ch„ wi71 ulLimatPly require the service. Mr. Comstock also expl&itied the'Sul�ivan —�I iY iJ Lake stornt se;wer.� Some of the engineering i'eatures that �aere used� Mr. Come�ock+9ta;ted'� were the method known as rational desi�rn method From rain fall'dBta^pUbliBhed'by the U. S. Weather Bureau. The �ystem is so designed that it,i�"�expected to be exceeded in capacity 9n f3ve years. This means that then the'rsystem itself is overcapacitated, that sofie of t1:e strcets will have to be used for storm release and water drainage. Mayor NeQ expla3ned' tt�at assessments geeerally had been spread in tYie pasi, on a�aquare'�'oo�t��asis''on the,premise that tlie land contributes to �he �roblem in the'd�.iect'�"ratio of this'nrea but there is some disoussion on this point in�M�cogt�izing the increaeed developments, He further explpined LLis is an � � improvement,hearing, and not an asseeament Yiearing but �;enerall,y, aFi,ex t,tie mone�-co4�tributed by the Federal fIidhway Funds are subtracted and tlie money cdn�r�.bu�ted b'y��COlumbia Heightsiis subtsacted and M.S.A. TaY refunds are sub- ti�a"eted�.�there:��ill be a certain amount'of money left and property assesGed ahd at'th3B'point� the City Couneil could not glve any exact ligure. Mayor Neb ennounced �he City Council wnuld now receive questlone i,o clarify the presentation'. i,' � �]r. L.'A. MuglAy raised the question that �t had ,7ust been stated that a pos- sible '�a�t'reSUTt eould 'not be �iven in assessmenL figures Uut roulcl 1,he C�ty Council come W3thin $50�000.00 of the.f�.na1 nssessment f�guxe. M�yor ]dee stated Mr. Mugley would pre,7udice the City of' Fridley negot�.at�ons *�iith Columb�,'a Heights if they told him, that they kne�a �aha L they Lh�u�li L i k�e y h�d to �e�' from' Columbi� Height� � S tate Aid ancl Sti� Le Highway Dzp+3rtmeiit. D1r. MtV�ley stated their attitude pretty well eugge�i,ed tahat postt�on Fridle,y ��as in. ' , �� Mr.l CaT'1� A. Paulson stated it did appear Lhat tl�is publtic hFacin�* ��as prem�- ture for the 5lmple reason the City Council didn'L I�ave the arsessmrnt ioll so that the citizens didn't have any tidea what ihe cost per lot woul�3 he. He further �t9�t�d' he wished to Icnpw what �this woulcl wst him and cilso, if thex•e were' a�wx'�.tteh •COmmitment �rom the S�ate High�aay Department ou i.he 53rd Avenue Sto4�ln SeWer'Design and the division of the cosi,. He said they i�ei•E� eo;� in- volVtd tui'tki' Columbia Heights and the Hlglataay Department and hizo�a n�,tliing about � w1�o wottl��pay,'For'it. Ffe s'La'ted Columb3e, fIeigliLs is i�ot noui payz�i��, inl;o Lhe �t92'm eeW,eY� dnto the river and yPt is bein�, sarv�ced oti about i00 acres, �iher�- ne �Frid�l¢�'has the use of onl}� a porti,on of 200 acres. He sai:ed Il.e nueetion �f the C�ty of Fridley did have a commitment uiitih the I�1�h�.�ay De��arLmenL or Coli�mbi�,Height�s.� Z�iayor Nee replled they did have a commit{,u�°at ��t,h Ll�o N��I�- way Depa2�tment� but not vith Columbia fIeighl,s. Mr. Paulson i uuuiz F d� 1' the 8u1'livan��iLake �overflor� proY�lem z�as reso]v�rL aild taas 6old therF c�r� some rle- tails o£�'it that are not in. Mr. Paulson �tate�' that Colurril�ia R�-��,1 !,s has a�� overi'1o�b"into Sullivan Lake �ad that it takes ri eevez�al hundred icies huL, at the present'tlme, we don't have the meai�s an�7 Curther �nquired a: lo tlie puxpose of thio hearing beFoie all these i,hini}; laere resolved. P1�r✓o�� `lee �o- plied �he purpose oP the improvement is to estal,]lsh the pinpo; e� o�' �,lie nced, the fles'irabil'zty and the cost is a Factor and wlieLhex� there is a n��e�i is a £aetor� that �his is the i'irs t len,�l step in tl�o proceeding: 1 f thc Ci i,�� Cauncil d'ec�.des it should be done. Mr, Carl'�Paulson Yurther lnquired if therP war� a CertiFicai,e �I P��s b�lity and was tbTd there is not an overall plon C1i�L Yias been pres�vl,ed to tl�e �'ity� Council fot thc ent7re city Uut that there �s a feastb��lty report on I,his pro j'ec'�. Mr. Paulson sta�ed zt a�erned to liirn tlierP ��e�°e othel° m�� I ho�l� of , dra3nage i:f it',is needed. A4a��or rlee statcd j,hey wou13 eut�rLai�� cnu3.a� nl,s e� a 1at�eY paTt°of the meeti�g. Mr. Pauleon ra�eed t1�e ques;,�oa zi t1iP CityiCO�ii�cil had studied an alternate plan wlnch could l�e leas costly and tnOrei'feasible'i�e the 61st Avenue proposal. Ti, was explained th�it ;,ori�� of it'had be'en stizdied and there are a number o[' alternate studi��,,. , , i, Mr. Comst'ock�'ebnsulting en�ineer, explained tYie 61st Avenue ��aoposat cind stated he'eus�m�sed this is a proposal to handlc the drainage From llnr�ti Uni,versi'ty �y„eXtending a pipe irom the intersFCLion of 61st eiiirl ;!1,7 �iliere thei�e are �tliree linee that join ir� the pr��sent proposal; one cor;�es ii��m the,Noxths'draipin� North of 61s� Avenue� one �rom the Zast wtncL draLn� the area from �the schools doz�n 61�t to Univei°sity and one frorn i,li�- i?�;sl, from the^'t�'aclta over. ,� � �� This drainage can very well be serviced. The question he raised is What happens to the areas South of thie are� and Nor�h of �694T Mr. Cometock�, explained that when they computed the amount of aapacity in the existing 72" line using the idea that they ahare in capacity according to dollnre contributed, it is not in agreement w3th the contract with the City and Highway Department. � Assuming� Mr. Cometock explained, the Highwny Department would�be willing to share the capacity on Highxay #100� in relationship to the number of dollara in i954 when it wns constructed. On thia basis and alsn removing the water from area, they would have approximntely 100 cfa defiMency in the exiating 72" outPall pipe to handle the area in Fridley and tihe run-oYP�,se propoaed in the present plan.� A'more logical place, he $saer�ed� vould;bt 'S7th or � 57th Place or 58th. Thie line would be of com�arable 9ize xith'the 11ne pro- poaed by the Interetatc. In etudies in 1959 there were four',poseible,Way� to take care of flow from thia diatrict� he explained� and by �ooking at t11e map it is juat about ns Yar from Univeraity to 57th Way ns it is Gn Highvay �100. He stated he doubted that the Bureau of Public Worka xould be �nterestediitt, participating and for theae bsaic reaeons� hie firm had,not suggeated to the City Council that they atudy an alternate�proposal; that at the"prseent time� they could not justify the expenditure of Punde for 61et alternatq,atu�y to the North University Waterahed District. Mr. Comatock stated;he Wiahed to mdke it clear that the #694 outlet is being constructed, englneered and handled by the State Highway Department� that he would not receive a bit of'engi- neering service for thia engineering facility but that iY he�had�doae 61at Avenue he would have received hie narmal fee; further� to clarify the reaor,de� they were employed by the City Council in i959 on the waterahed and in the. fall of that year they hnd conducted a public hearing and ordered t e improve- ment. His firm was inatructed at that time� to make finel pinns aa$ specifi- cationa and they would receive thelr normal iee for that uork'doae;, Mr. Richard Hanson inquired if the City Council were poeitive that Columbia Heights would enter into an agreement on this project or would Fridley hnve to abeorb all the expenses. Mayor Nee replied thie xould be decided in the courae of negotiationa. The queation �ea raised regsrding th� outfnll,drsin- age along #694� on the other phase of thia project North oP this a�ong,• Univereity snd South toward ColumMa Heighta, would Columb3a-Heighta'be in- cluded in this phaee of it. The interceptora going North on'Uaiveseity'were _ in this project� on the 3outh side it is included in the project^atid",on ,, 45th it will be another project. The question was raiaed i�'all oY',�his�,da included in the eatimate quote. Mr. Henaon wae told it Wae not� on'ly what,, had been shown. It Was etated there are about 700 acree imrolYedwn�d,di8 the Council know haw many families were involved. Mr• HaneQn wae tola,�it Ylad been worked out on area terme only, that the amount oY fsmil3es hadn;'t been worked out. ' � �' � , Mr. Ed Littlejohn inquired approximately hoc+ deep Would the lnteral linea be, thst he lived on 58th Avenue and the neighbors were concerned-,with,vater in their basement, that thia water is coming irom Moore Lake and if the ],aterale were put down, the beach would slso be useless. He Gxplained the �rnter that runa from Moore Lake and into Shingle Creek (R3ce CreekT� and'raiaed the ques- tion if they wcre going to have to pey for this aewer in order for'the people Who live higher on the hills, elso the people who live on Moore Iske. He further stated the water problem on 59th and Helene Place on the Plorth side of the High School, thet the people aere having problema-vith�vater in their beaements from Moore Lake. Mr. Little�ohn Was told by Mr. Cometock thie perticular storm sewer ia deaigned with cloaed jointa and thiQ fac3lity �as designed with the exception of a couple oY atubs in Donnay'e and�th'oae lines would be tied into thie syatem. The remainder of th3s system,will be cloaed joints. Because of the request tvo years previoue from the�property owners, there were two lateral etuhs included and these vould be deep enough so that if the baCkup line drainage doea exist� they would be able tQ+t�e,basement drainage floodings into this conduit out to the street and there;i�ould be a --- private line to tle into thie if thA exieting line Pilled 3n:'i�(,�Mr: Little�ohn atated this would etill be pulling the weter level down�and eYen'�'uslly the water will drop in Moore Lake� that Moore Lake k�ad been expenelve aRd if it is taken down and the suimming beach loat� the residents�were6eatitled�to know. Mr. Comstock replied he had made no studies regaTd3ng khe' preqent facilities on Moore Lske but this portion of the project could be�'deleted by the Council if they desired this. '� � Rf � Mr. Leonard Cross stated he wished to direr_t attention to the existing conduit on #694. This proceeds� he explained� along f�I00 and is surrounded by a given area. He raised the question if there were going to be any assessment credlt for existing sewer and was it a possibility. Mayor Nee stated lt had been a problem attempting to get it resolved. Councllman Wolke stated this was the area including Summit Manor and they had al]_ bought under the assumption that the storm sewer was in and paid for, that some had been assessed personally and some the developer had paid for. It had been stated at the time they had bought homes that it was a fact that all sewer, water and storm �ewer was in and paid for. Councilman Wolke stated this w�s put in and he was quate sure � they had a credit. Mr. Cross stated it was either a credit or a tax loss and it simply could not be eliminated. Councilman Flolke stated they knew Colum- bia Heights dumps a lot of water and they had waited a number of ,years but lt couldn't be done alone and need participation of State and Columbia Heights and until the City Council could meet with them� it was di£ficult to say what it will cost. Mayor Nee stated they recognized that the previous Council had already spread the assessment and residents certainly wouldn't have to pay twice. Mr. Vletor Molinaro stated he lived North of the line and was being assessed and raised the quest�on if they would be given some ad�ustment. Mayor Nee replied that a very large area was assessed for the present outfall and this was why there were several components that he had mentioned earlier, furthera that this is a Council decision and residents who have been assessed wi11 be proteeted. Mr. Donald Mathew inquired how much of this 72" pipe now existing does Fridley own at the present time. Mayor Nee stated this was a question the,y had been struggling with. Mr. Comstock stated that� based on dollar participation� in round figures� the total cost was about �180,000.00. The Highway Department contributed $35,000.00� so Fridley paid $145,000.00 and based on that� it was about 19.6� owned by the Highway Department with the balance owned by Fridley. Mr. Mathew stated that he had understood in 1954 that Mr. George Minder, then consultang engineer� had claimed this line ��ould take care of 1,100 acres and was thas what they wera talking about. Mayor Nee replied that the city ex- � periences contradict the statement. Mr. Mathew inquired if they didn`t believe now it would take care of 1,100 acres, had tlis pipe overflowed at any time. Mayor Nee replied that it had not. Mr. Comstock stated the only con- nection to the existing 72" line i� the Summit Manor private storm sewer and the discharge Prom that full pipe is 28 efs which is over 10�o of the designed capaclty oF the original 72". The que�tion was asked if this is only lp°� of capacity, why is there a need for another one alongside oi it. Mr. Comstock replied that residents must consider the fact that freeway system will be here for sometime plus the #6g4, plus storm sewer pape� etc.� and a iacility should be provided at this time which is large enough and of sufficient siz,e when it reaches its saturation. This is� he asserted� the basis and one of the pre- misec_ of the design� a.nd they were figuring runoff flows at what could be expec�ed at saturation. The calculatians his Firm made in ]959 were submitted to the Highway Department and they agree, he stated, with his fiz^m'e figures. They had reviewed figures and Columbia Heights had reviewed figures and they are a]1 in bssic agreement that the facility that ls being designed is adequate. It was stated by Mr. Mathew that according to explanation there are 48�000 gallons of water entering every second and he raised the question if there were that much water coming out of this questioned area, Mayor Nee replled that if he wished they could go through the item area by area to explain it. Mr. W. C. Goodman of Dealers Manufacturing Company was present and raised L-he question if the City Council had decided that the State and Federal State Aid is ample for the immediacy of this problem. Mayox :Vee replied that no formal decision had been made but they felt it was equitable. � Mr. L. A. Mugley stated that as he understood it� in ig6o there was a general meeting in which this general pro,7ect was approved. Mayor Nee replied the North University interceptor was. Mr. Mugley raised the questlon if at the Meeting was this a select group of people or was lt all of Fridley and was it an area deal? Mayor Nee replied it would have been a published notice. Mr. Mu�ley stated to Mr. Comstock that he received the impression from his statement that the large line that was supposedly to run alongside of the exist- ing line� that thexe seemed to be a great deal more figured than just this area. � `� Mr. Mugley also asked if all the lines in this area were designed ,7ust to take care of this area or would other parts oi Fridley later be tied into these lines? Mr. Comstock replied there is some conduit but it is not all shown on this map. Mr. Mugley stated he was referring to the area outside the boundary line and would anything go into this system. Mr. Comstock re- plied that it would not as far as the City of Fridley was concerned. Mr. Leonard Walter inquired on lines put in by Mr. Carlson, that when they construct their highway, what will happen to those dreinage lines; that they are six feet under ground and are made of galvanized corrngated iron. Further, what would happen to the drainage system? Mr. McCubrey replied the line would ' not be affected by the highway construction and the connectors had been re- arranged on the 53rd Avenue crossing. Mr. Sieff of 1298 Sk,ywood Lane stated he had a legal question regarding the place oi meeting� that they did have to have a Notice of Hearing and wiEhed to know if his property could be considered to be improved. Mayor Nee stated he could not answer his drainage problem but thai, regarding the notice, a correcEed notice had been published and this was not an assessment proceeding. The question was raised that Marian Hills drains South and Mr. Sieff's pro- perty drains North. Mayor Nee replied if Mr. Sieff's property drains into Sullivan Lake or toward #100� he apparently was out of the district. Mr. T. W. Collins inquired if any of Innsbruck Addition was ineluded. Mr. Laurence Solberg inquired i£ N. P, property was included and would this be tied into the old existing line or the new. A general discussion was held and explanation made of areas included� lines being tied into old and new existing lines. Ruestions were raised regarding Main Street and where Columbia Heights would tie in. Counci]man Wolke explained how this could he done and stated he felt this proposal should not go through until agree- ments were made with the Columbia Heights Council and this was the intention of the Council of the C�ty of Fridley� that they would not definitely make a flat statement to the residents of what the charges would be because an agreement had not been reache8 �aith Columbia Heights. Mr. Vern Bandel stated that concerning the exieting 72" main outfall on ' Highway 100 that� as far as splitting the original costs, it was intimated that the State Highway Department would be doing Fridle,y a favor. He asked if it wasn't in fact� a matter that the figuring of the cost split could be even more in favor of Fridley. Mr. Comstock replied it was a total of $1d�000.00 spent, that $145,000,00 in relationship to $180�000.00, $35,000.00 from $180,000.00 is 19.6� and if it would be assumed this was the basic, this would Ue the ratio of the flow and stated he had said the contract that exists between Fridley and the State Highway Department does not substantiate that figure and this would make the percentage smaller for Fridley and larger for the Highway Department. Mr. Bandel inguired if it wasn't true the Highway Department was considering in 195� another line for $22,000.00 and Fridley was to receive credit Por that. Mr. Comstock replied that either way 3t was computed, they would have had to pay $22�000.00 even though Fridley didn't want to go in that. Mr. Bandel stated he felt it was pre,7udicial in Fridley's bargaining� that act- ually Fridley owns gl�O of the capacity of the line from T. H. #47 to the underpass they had been discussing and the pipe from the underpass to tlie river was even greater capacity to provide for the 24" state required pipe. Mr. Comsi,ock xeplied he didn`t believe they had prejudiced any proposal with the Highway Department} that negotiations had ceased a couple of months pre- vious. Mr. Bandel inquired of the Highway Department representatives if any- thing had been discussed concerning the surface drainage on the South side of �694 an@ what about the surface drainage fr�m the Southeast and Southwest portions of the �65 and �694 interchange. It was explained the interchange ' drains itself and runs off and this would all be taken North� that the High- way Department had constructed this and at that time the drainage area was set up as to what would be propased to go into Moore Lake and for future drainage and this had been taken up with the Conservation Department. Mr. Bandel inquired of Mayor Nee that as this hearing was considered the first step after preliminary plans, was he correct in assuming the final plans were not £inished as yet? Mayor Nee stated he didn't know whether �� they were or not, that University was completed in 1960 and they did have the finals on those but the finals on the oUtfall are the property of the Highway Department. Mr, Bandel stated he had been told the final plans were in the City Engineer's office. Mayor Nee replied that on the North University inter- ceptor that would be true. Mr. Bandel inquired of Couneilman Wolke that as the City Engineer checks the consulting engineer's work and this is what he is supposed to do, could Councilman Wolke honestly say that C2ty Engineer Brown has been able to get these designs. Councilman Wolke stated he didn`t think this was the time to , go into that� the design has always been available and when the City Council orders preliminary plans and specifications, they belong to the City, further, at the time the City of Fridley started on the North University Wa�ershed, they had a different City Engineer. Mr. Handel stated the City Engineer had been �rying since May to get data� such as for the water system, that he didn't believe that the City Engineer could be said to be chec'_�ing L-he consulting engineer's work� that he hasn't any authority and he hadn't been able to get any data. Councilman Wolke stated this information has always been available to City Engineer Brown and these were statemen� and he presumed he had some- thing� which he feels� he can back them up with. As far as the City Council was concerned they had ordered the work� ordered the paying of iL-� and had the City Engineer check the work. If the City Engineer has checked all the work they don't know. Mayor Nee stated their consulting engineer} the Columbia Heights consulting engineers and Highway Department had checked the plans and inquired of Mr. Bandel if there were any point to this question. Mr, Bandel stated he was asking if there had been enough study put in this to know whether or not Fridley's best interest is included. Mayor Nee stated Mr. Bandel could be shown the alternates and a number of these had been considered and were more expensive. Mr. Bandel inquired of Councilman Johanson i? City Engineer Brown had been able to get all data he needed for his work. Councilman Johanson stated there had been occasions when Mr. Brown had made recommendations that might � have been contrary to the recommendations made hy the consulting engineers� but the City Council had not seen fit to act on these. Mr. Thomas Inman inquired how firm the boundary line was that includes the drainage area. Mr. Comstock replied that as best as they could determine, this was the boundary. Mayor Nee explained the boundarles would be ad�usted at the assessment hearing. Mr. Mel Skalicky stated to the City Council that they said they had an engi- neer, further� what did he think of this plan. Mayor Nee replied there was some disagreement on it. The question was raised regarding the balance of information on this and could the audience hear from City Engineer Brown, City Engineer Brown stated he was not finding fault with the design of the consulting engineer� that a standard method of design was used but he felt there were several aspects of this pro�ect to be discussed� and one was the timing. He stated his opinion was that the citizens of Fridley were being asked to participate in a pro�ect not needed at this timey that it might be ten or fi£teen years before the 72" line is fully utilized and the amount of money invested toda,y may be worth quite a bit of money. Mr. Brown stated he took issue with the existent capacity of the 72" line and he f�lt that Fridley does own 91� of the capacity of the first leg of it and in the balance of the underpess to the river. He explained they could take out 61st and it would reduee the deficit from about BO cfs� as opposed to Mr. Comstock's figure of 100 cfs, to about 57 cubic feet per second. He stated Fridley mlght use some � kind of drainage pond along an industrial right-of-way North to 61st, which may be feasible to do this perhaps at a slightly larger expense when it is needed� and not have to pa=ticipate in this proposed pro�ect. Mr. Brown stated that he had not run any calculations� these were merely through pbser- vation� that he had no data to back up this proposal� it was a suggested line of inquiry. Ae expla3ned this present proposal For the hearing has been re- fined to the point where it appears there this f'urther study may be some alternate method to go at a future data when it is needed. Mayor Nee raised the question if City Engineer Brown was saying that Frzdley didn't need 61st today. City Engineer Brown replied that Fridley could use it today, that it � �� would solve several problems and give a permanent park to the people in Sylvan Hi11s as the present proposal does not eliminate the drainage pond for Sylvan Hills. Mayor Nee stated that City Engineer Brown had stated Fridley could wait on 61st and now was saying they couldn't. Mr. Brown replied he had seid they could utilize the existing 72" capacity for a long time� that this has enough components in it that it should be investi�ated. Councilman Wolke stated they had checked From i959� 61st Avenue cutting across and up through property owned by Carlson-LaVine� Andy Hohn Addition anfl Locke Lake; they had studied the route to go from 7th Street and down through the Rice Creek Terrace area. These things had been studied and � they did get criticzsm� that they had spent money in Sylvan $ills to make s play area and zf Fridley doesn`t use the North University outfall� they definitely will have to put in 61st to the river� that just recently they had come up with a figure of 1�2 million dollars more and that money would have to be paid by residents. The State, he explained� finally agreed to paying $113�000.00 of the proposed pro�ect and if Fridley does not partici- pate� that money is down the �rain. It was further explained that once University goes in Fridley cannot come dowh University Avenue wi�hout private easements and land cannat be drained North of Highway �{I00 down 61st� that some of it will have to go on Highway �100. City Engineer Brown presented map showing areas that already had been assessed and stated thic area should be allowed to utillze the 72" line and it can service this area. He stated it may be that in ten or fifteen years it may co^t a little r�ore but under this proposal it appears that the Plymouth Addi- tion will be required to pay almost double with Columbia Heights than the people in this proposal. Mayor Nee stated there was no suppnrt for that statement. The quection was raased if it was possible to take the entire program in sections taking up the most necessary parts and running laterals underneath the ground where the highway will be placed and t�ta when the necessity for this dralnage comes up� could Fridley then put in the drainage line. Mayor Nee stated this is what the proposal is. Councilman Wolke stated that when City Engineer Brown comes up with facts� the City Council would be ver5r will- � ing to evalUate them, that when you state something is a matter o£ judgement, you have no concrete answer or solutions and anyone can do this; that if you come up with a solution to the problem, the City Council would gladly go along with anyone. Councilman Wolke stated he could make a statement zn his �udgement and get the same results. Councilman Johanson inquired of Councilman Glolke if he would then go along with the continuance of these hearings and authorize the City Engineer to make a study on it if it would be feasible to have Fridley retain him to cross check this pro�ect and continue these hearings and then the City Couneil would have the facts. Councilman Wolke replied they could not be checked in two weeks. Councilman Johanson stated zt might take two months. Counczlman Wolke stated they had studaed this matter long enough and the City Council had to get together with Columbia Heights, that as far as the t3ming is concerned, this is going to be let Uy the State and they can take care of all the drainage necessary; further� that Fridley might have some legal re- course far caueing these problems. He stated Fridley does want a solution to getting rid of the water and doing it as cheap as possible} and Fridley is doing it to the best of the Council ability. The City Council was asked for exact facts and to 1et residents know what the assessment rolls are and what they are talking about in money. Mayor Nee stated he felt this was what the proposal would be at the end of this hear- ing, that the purpose oi' the hearin�, was to establish the need and intention of the City Council ls to defer this to another meeting. ' Councilman Wolke stated that for clarificataon there is $324�000.00 on the outfall, the State will pay $113�000.00 of this whieh will leave Fridley raith $227�000,00. The State �s asking Fridley to enter into a contract and the City Council hss to negotiate with Columbia Heaghts and this is why the Council know� it wquld be �227�000.00 and they want Columbia Heights to share in this cost. �� Councilman Sheridan stated there was a question posed here that tfle City Council had this public hearing without any figures. In explanatiion he stated that at the time the hearing notzces were presented it took twenty-one days to have the notices published and the mailing done. The City Council were told by Columbia Heights that they would get together by themselves and re- view this pro�ect and get together with Fridley and have negotiations com- pleted prior to this hearing. This information was not correct. Columbia Heights City Council was unable to get to�ether because of vacations. Upon their return� they had met on August 12th and undoubtedly have some figures of their own. Fridley has not since August 12th met with them and renewed � negotiations and Fridley did not come to this meeting without fig�ares but had fully intended to have figures and it was not the intention of the City Gouncil to bring aut 400 to 500 people and not give them iniormation. It was a situat3on of circumstances that did not come about because of committ- ment that Columbia Heights had made to Fridley. Councilman Sheridan stated he believed they would meet with Columbia Heights Clty Council and make negotiations and this council would present the proportionate figures for each individual 1ot to everyone. Mr. B. Szyboliski asked questions regarding lines North of Highway �100 to Mr. Comstock. A discusaion period was held with maps shown and areas ex- plained� also the spread of assessments and drainage. Mr. McCubrey of the State Hzghway Department stated he did resent the impl�- cation that his own engineers were being impuned, that he had borrowed time from his commission to try to get this problem �olved and 3t would be pretty expensive for both municipalities when they can't get onto either the free- way or trunk hi�hway. Mayor Nee announced the City Council would like to have residents state opin- ions. Mr. Doyle stated that there were three engineers present and the City Council had not questioned their own engineer� that the City En�ineer presents a proposal which the City Council will not apparently allow h3m to study and requested to know why the City En�ineer had not been allowed to study the pro- � posal. Mayor Nee replied that proposal had never been made to the City Counci].� that Mr. Doyle had been misinformed and the City Council would entertain a motion on that item as soon as the hearing was closed, that it was out of order at this point. Mayor Nee �as asked if Fridley� at the present time, needs another 72" pipe and Mayor Nee replied, that it does not. The question was raised if Fridley will need one in fifteen years and Mayor Nee replied that he was told it would. Mr. Doyle inquired of City Engineer Brown if he believed Fridley would need another 72" pipe. Mr. Brown replied that would be determined by the study. The question was raised oi why couldn't Fridley wait until that time to put this in. Mayor Nee replied Mr. McCubrey had given the reason� that the 61st Avenue adea was approached as a device for doing some bargaining and the simple fact was if Fridley does not get in on thls� Fridley would lose the $113�000.00 participation by the State. Mr, Bernard McKinley oi 6291 Trinit,y Dr3ve stated he had lived in Fridle,y since last September and stated he could see no reason to give up �47 and a free way to the river to past #65� that he was of the opinion that Fridley doesn't need itr that sewers should be put under the hzghway. He further stated he had lived by Lake Nokomis for fifteen years and the City of Minn- eapolis has a better drainage hecause it goes into the ]ake� that the City Council is taxing the citizens when they are taxed to the limita and stated he was one person who would stick with the engineer who says Fridley does not need this improvement. Mr. Carl Paulson stated he thought it had been worthwhile to have called this � meeting to listen to the people who pay the bill. He raised the question to the Highway Department if they were considex�ing draining the area south of Highway #100 along University at a low point on 47th Avenue through the pres- ent outfall on �694. Mr. McCubrey replied it would cost more to take it out on 45th Avenue. Mr. Paulson further stated Fridley had been bargaining uith Columbia Heights sznce 1957 and they had not been able to come up with an agreement and Columbia Heighte hasn't paid for the storm sewer that is now; further� that the people in Plymouth Addition are concerned with another assessment� and it would behoove the City Council� he stated, to stud� pro- posals and have another plan so that they can get another set of alternate �� figures. Mr. Paulson asserted the people in the City of Fridley don't like special assessment and if they are not needed� and not wanted� but that there are certain areas like Sylvan Hills that need help. Mr. Paulson suggested leaving the pot holes in watersheds and using them for drainage areas. Mr. Richard French stated it seemed to him that Fridley was spending $27'7,000.00 to save �113�000.00 and it was not much of a bargain. Mr. Warren Silver stated that one of the councilmen had made the statement that 21 days were needed in which to hand out o�iicial notices and raised the question if there was a publication made official for this transfer from ' the chamber hall to pay the school, that it is not a legal notice if it was not delivered. City Attorney Smith replied that as he understood it, three notices were pos�d and one was published for the change to the school and this is an official meeting. The questian was raisefl if it is not neces- sary to give the residents of the area notice and this notice mailed like the first notice. City Attorney Smith stated he felt the notice would stand. The residents stated they were all up in arms and spokesman stated there should be a motion made to the board that this meeting should be dismissed and a futare meeting set up with all assessments calculated� etc., and chacked by the city engineer, that all of the facts should be put in front of the residents and all the negotiations with Columbia Heights should be brought up. Mr. Gordon Harstad stated that fro�h�� understood°�he area, the south lateral, takes in Sullivan Lake and if Fridley puts lines down 45th Avenue, Fridley will have to pay the bill. Mayor Nee replied the City Council had been led to believe the State Highway Department would help with that pro- b1em. Mr. Chuck Combs of 6140 Rainbow Drive stated there was certainly a confliet of interest between all engineers� that it also seemed that there were enough people here that it might be Fridley doea not have to spend this money and it would seem proper for the City Council that before there is ' anothel• hearing that they have the facts and figures. Mr. Combs further stated Mr. Brown should be given the authority and given money to make a study on the question and if he says the lines are adequate in Fridley to handle the problem now, then there would be an alternate plan other than tonight's plan. Mr. Combs raised the ques�ion if Crty Engineer Brown has the authority to make a study and was told he did not. Mr.Combe asked if money would have to be appropriated to do this study and was told it possibly would. Mr. Combs was told Mr. Srown was working on some other studies the seven or eight days he would remain when he inquired how long he would remain in Frldley. The questlon was raised if the City Engineer does not have time to make the study� then what taould residents be faced with. Mayor Nee stated it was a_uite possible that the City Council would decide to do a erash survey. Mayor Nee stated Mr. Combs had made a remark that he shouid ampliiy or retract and i� relates to the conflict of interest and requested that Mr. Comhs expand on this remark, that the City Council is very much concerned with such a remark and inquired if Mr. Combs had some support for the state- ment. Mr. Combs stated he had the support of the statement the Mayor made in questioning Mr. Brown and apparently he should have knawn about this months ago� that when Mr. Brown presented his plan beYore the group and the City Council the Mayor had questioned him on the line running from 61st. Mayor Nee replied and stated Mr. Combs had made a statement that brought in this design with the consulting engineers and inquired if he would ' support it or withdraw it. Mr. Combs replied that it was possibly a mis- atatement� that he would not withdraw the statement as he wovld say it was a difference of opinion but he would withdraw the statement of conflict and insert the term "dlfference of opxnion". The question �aas raised that as they were going to drain water to Highway �100� what would be done with the water if Fridley doesn't participate in any storm sewer to be put in. The question was answered that the Minnesota Highway Department �aould drain the trunk highway and a separate storm sewer � route for the highway has never been computed because Fridley had been offered this system and Columbia Heights and there is no need for a separate systema that if this cooperation falls through� the Minnesota Highway Department would then design a separate system. Motion by Wolke to eontinue the public hearing on �6g4 Outfall and Ylorth University Watershed Dra3nage to September 9th at 8 P.M. at Hayes School if school ofiicials will allow; otherwise� it will be held at the City Ha11. Seconded by Johanson. IIpon a voice vote} there being no naysa the motion carried nnanimously. Mr. K. Anderson of Alden Way appeared in regard to paving the streeti in front of his home. The Council informed him it will be paved by issuance of a change order. OLD BUSINESS: S& W IMPROVEMENT PROJECT #61 - BROOKVIEW DRIVE (T. FI, #65 - ti'EST 250'): Mayor Nee announced this was part of proposed sewer and water improvement Projeet #61 on Brookview Drive. Motion by Johansan to instruct the city engineer to prepare plans and specifications for street surfacing, blacktop� curbing on Brookvaew Drive. Seconded by Brook. Upon a voice vote, there being no nays� the motion carried unanimously. SECOND READTNG OF ORDINANCE #242 REZONII3G LOTS 2-13, AU➢ITOR'S SUBDIVISIOIJ #89: Mayor Nee announced this was the second reading of Ordinance �242 rezoning lots two through thirteen in Auditor's Subdiviston ff89. The City �anager read said ordinance. Motion by Brook to accept this as the second reading of Ordinance �242 re- � zoning Lots two through thirteen� Auditor's Subdivision #89 and publish same. Seconded by Johanson. Upon a voice vote� there being no nays� the motion carried unanimou�ly. Motion by 8heridan to recess the regular meeting of August 19, 1963 until August 20� 1963 at 8 P.M, at the City Hall and to continue the PUbl�c Hearing on the Amendment to Ordinance No. 70 - Section 8.8 to August 20� 1g63 at 8 P.M. Seconded by Brook. Upon a voice vote, there being no nays, the motion carried unanimously. �� Respectfully submitted; � - � � � ��.C-tl�� ?�G; ��a �Cr�-L�"[' Sue Miskowic Secretary to the Council �I ,�(% /� 'r,i ',di.�,i,U,,,. + ' -F.�'�^� YOR - W111aay S. Nee MINUTES OF THE RECESS COUNCIL MEETING OF AUGUST 19, 1963 - HELD AUGUST 20, 1963 The meeting was called to order by Nfayor Nee at B 15 P,M, ROZL CALL: Members Present: Brook� Johanson� Nee� Wolke (arrzved at 8:40 P,M.) Members Absent: Sheridan ��