03/05/1973 - 00016783MARCH 5, 1973
7HE MfNUTES OF THE SPECIAL SESSIDN OF THE CITY FRIDLEY COUNCIL O�v EAST RIVER ROAD
Mayor Liebl called the special session of the Fridley City Counu 1 regarding the
East River Road problems to order at 6;4D p.m „ March 5> 1973•
� Mayor Liebl appodnted Mr. Marvin Brunsell, City Finance Director, as acting
Secretary and asked him to call the roll;
ROLL CALL: MEMBERS PRESENT: l,iebl, Nee, Breider. Starwalt
MEMBERS ABSENT; Utter
Mayor Liebt said the members of the Council and the Mayor had received a memo-
randum regarding the problems on the East River Road from the Public Safety Direc-
Cor, Mr. James Hill, dated February 23, 1973> and also a memorandum from the City
Engineer, Mr. N�sim Qureshi, dated March 2, 1973, regarding East River Road Safety
Im`,rovements, Accomplishments, and Future Plans and Needs.
Mayor Liebl said he would like to have the City Engineer address the Council for
the purpose of demonstrating or explaining to the two new Council members the
pro�ect the Counc�l had approved by Resolution. Mayor Liebl said the County Board
had also approved the pro�ect which ran along East River Road from Mississippi
Street all the way to Interstate �694.
The City Engineer said he did not think it was necessary to explain to the Council
that East River Road was one of the most dangerous and murderour rc�ads in all of
Fridley. He said he had made reports to the Council which date 6ack to 1964.
He said if the Council had a chance to read the report submitted with the memoran-
dum to the Council, it pointed aut the number of accidents and deaths on East
River Road, The City Engineer said half of the City's acu dents have 6een on East
� Ri•�er Road, which is only six miles of roadway out of the City's 120 miles of
roads, or only 5% of the total mileage and y0% of the total accidents.
The City Engineer said the Public Safety Director had po mted out that in recent
weeks there had been a couple of deaths on the roadway and over the past weekend
thare had 6een two serious accidents. The City Engineer said this is a continuing
problem that needs attention from the City Administration and the City Council,
the County, the Highway Department, and all the governmental bodies protecting
the safety and health and welfare of Lhe citizens,
The City Enginea.r said there is some progress in the improvement of the highway,
He said, originally the road was designed for very low volumes of traffic, but
over the years due to the development of the northern areas of Fridley, and with-
in Fridley, the volumes have �umped many folds, and now the C rty has 20,000
veh�cles north of the Freeway and over 5,000 vehicles leaving the community.
The City Engineer said hevould like to emphasize the great concern about the
traffic coming from the north, but there is a large volume of traffic which is
generated to the Fridley residents. He said the figures from 1970 when the City
took the traffic counts indicated that three quarters of the traffic was generaCed
or was coming from Fridley and one quarter was comi�g from the North area. He
added, in 1975 or 1976, it is pro�ected thaY two thirds of the traffic will be
from the Fridley area and one third will be from the north area. He said the
balance of the traffic will shift, but the ma�or rty of the people that will be
� using the roadway will be from the Fridley area.
SPECIAL SESSIQN- EAST RIVER ROAD, .MARCH 5, 1973 PAGE 2
The City Engineer said he would like to go over some of the things the City
had done in cooperation with the County. He said their responsibility is
basically to move the trafiic from one end of the County to the other� �
whereas, the City's responsibility is to see that local traffic can use the
roadways safely and get on and off the highway without hazardous conditions.
He said he would like to quickly go over what had been done in the last
few years. He said originally, eight years ago, the City had only one
signal on this roadway. He added, progress had been made in this di�ection as
at the present time there are at least a half dozen signals on the xoadway,
and for the long range plan, the City planned to add a number of additional signals
on the highway to protect and control the traffic on East River Road.
He said the signal on 37th and East River Road which the City had been
trying to work with the City of Minneapolis to obtain would hopefully he installed
this year as the City did get an agreement with the City of Minneapolis and
they were in the process of preparing the plan. He said this would be a
step in the right direction.
The Czty Engineer said the area where the Railroad area xs also a very bad
area, and for over ten years the City of Columbia Heights has been trying
to get a safe crossing because of the cross traffic which gets blocked up
quite Prequently because there are seven tracks in one area and two in
another area for a total of nine tracks the traffic must cross. He added,
because o£ the development of the marshalling yard there would be an nverpass.
He said the piers are up and hopefully, this would be fully completed and
there would be a good access from East River Road to this area and eventually
as the traffic warrants, there would be a signal in this location.
The City Engineex called the Council� attention to the 100 acre partion �
of land owned by Burlington Northern and will be developed. He said at the
present time, there are only two industries in t�he area, but when it is
fully developed, it would generate enough traffYC that a signal would be
waranted at this location. He said thiS would take care o£ the northerly area
and also the large parking lot of F.M.C. He said this would be a logical
area for a stop signal and would give the City a good break for the F.M.C.
traffic from the south to entar and exit the highway safely.
The City Engineer said in the last three years the City did get two
additional signals on the ramps that hook off the City portion of the freeway
system and the MYnnesota Highway Department installed them two or three
years ago.
The City Engineer said from that location to Rice Creek, the City had
an overall plan prepared as pointed out in the report to the Councilmen.
He said the plan was prepared and had also been approved by the Minnesota
xighway Department and the Federal Government under the TOPICS program,
but when the City had hearings, there was some serious objections from
the neighborzng properfiy owners and the program was cut back. He added,
because of the down grading of the safety improvements, the City was
unable to meet some of the requirements so they were dropped from the
funding.
Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer if he was talking about the area from the �
north end of Mississippi, which was marked in blue on the map.
The City Engineer said the area was from the Freeway to 61st. He added,
this area had been dropped from Federal Funding. He said the only area
where the City was able to obtain Federal funding was from 64th to south of
Rice Creek.
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RNER ROP,D, MARCH 5, 1973 PAGE 3
The City Engineer said the City Council had approved providing widening of
� that area.
He said he would like to quickly recap what the City had proposed at that
time and this was no increase in additional traf£ic lanes, providing shoulders
and curbing and providing a divider with lighting so the traffic could safely
use the roadway and yet on and of£ the roadway. He said they had planned to
take out_the bad cunres that had been creating the problems.
He said basically, in the area from 64th to south of Rice Creek this would
be done. He added, there is a bad curve 7ust south of the 64th area and also
�ust north of Mississippi Street. He said the City is providinq some drainage
structures, which would eliminate most of the drainage problems, plus it
would have additional shoulders so a person may pull off the roadway and be
safe. He said the plans also call £or right turn lanes and left turn lanes.
The Crty Engineer referred to page four of the report he had submitted to
the Council for their consideration stating each item in the pro�ect had its
specific function and he had listed in the report dif£erent items that were
needed. He said on thxs page of the reporL- a cause was listed £or e�ch accideht
and also the solution to the problem. He referred to the death in 1964 where
the cause was a motorcyclist skidded under a truck and the solution for this
would be a shoulder. He also called the Council's attention to an accide*.it
of the previous week when someone ran off the roadway and hit a tree and died_
He said he felt no matter how many improvement that are made, this can never
� guarantee this will not kill anybody. He said it is only a matter o£
probability that the City provide a safer roadway, less people will get
killed and less will be involved in accidents. He said in this case, if
a shoulder had been provided, this would give additional reaction distance.
If there was curbing, someone would bump this before he would bump a tree.
He said all of these things add to the total sa£ety picture, no one
thing can be the ultimate solution to the problem. The City Engineer said
if you eliminate the cars, then nobody would get killed, but within �he
conditions that are given, people are going to use cars, people are going
to drive and there are limrts of speed. Speed is certainly a consideration,
he said, bu�, this is not the total thing either. The Crty Engineer said if
one would travel 20 to 30 miles an hour and hit a tree, they would get killed,
too. He said this is what he had tried to point out in his report.
He called the Councal's attention to the second listing on the report of 1966.
The incident was unsafe speed and the vehicle hit a house. Lighting, curbing
and shoulders were all considerations working against safety. He called their
attention to the 1967 and 1968 acaidents causing deaths and contributed to
crossinq over the center 1ine. He said this would he median and drainage
problems. The City Engineer said the two accidents that ocoured last weekend
were contributed to the same problems. He said, there is a bad dzainage problem
and no median. In one case, he said, the man crossed over the center line and
got clobbered. The City Engineer said these are facts that they had all heard
before.
� The City Public Safety Director said at 6:22 a.m. that mor7ing, the same thing
had happened at 66th and East River Road. He added, the car crossed over the
_ center line and struck two vehicles in the northbound 1ane, they a11 went of£
the road, he added.
b
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD� MARCH 5� 1973 PAGE 4
The City Engineer said he did understand the desire of thA neighborhood.
If he were living on the roadway, he would like to minimize the traffic on that �
roadway, but the facts of life are, as he polnted out, there are 20,000 vehicles
traveling 7ust north of the EreeWay. Any road that carries 20,000 vehicles,
under no stretch of the imagination is a residential roadway. He said perhaps
under 1,000 could be considered residential, but not 20,000. He said i£
the traffic from the north was blocked out, there would still be 15,000
vehicles traveling north of the Freeway. Even then, this would be a highly
traveled roadway, he added. He questioned, what do we do? He said, it
must be made safe, so the people who are using it can use it without hitting each
other. IIe said he can see why the proposals are unpopular because of the large
number of residential dwellings on the xoadway.
The City Engineer said the accident that Mr. Hill ha$ brought to the attention
of the Council would be eliminated after the improvement because the plans will
provide a divider in that area. He said he was sure the construction of the
divider would have an impact on the number of accidents and fatalities,
they wxll hopefully be reduced.
The City Engineer said from that area to north of the creek, basically, will
be taken care of. He said they were installing curbing and correcting the
drainage problem and installing lighting. He said over the years, the City has
been adding more lights and in the first phase of 1973, there had been seven
more lights added. He said by ration, the City has the highest number of lights
on East River Road.
Mayor Liebl said this was up to this year. The City Engzneer said yes. �
The City Engineer said from this area to 71st, there had been nothing at
first. He said then ihe City installed a push button type flashing amber
lzgnt. The City Engineer said last year a fully actuated signal which turns
once a car comes from the side. He said it also has cycles.
The City Engineer said the next area, Osborne Road, had a substandard signal,
but he hoped in time they would be upgrading this slgnal. The City Engineer
saxd there is a plan which the Council has approved on the west side of East
River Road that will provide access going on to East River Road. He said this
would provide access to all the areas going on to East River Road and have more
o£ a square pattern of intersection than a"T" shape intersection as it 1s now.
The City Engineer said the next signal which is more logical is 79th as
the traffic can be routed. He pointed out the various routes on the map.
The City Engineer said there is a logical progression of signals. He added,
signals are a large improvement in helping the local traffic.
He said he had pointed out to the Council in the last page of the report
(page 16) what the various things that are needed on East River Road are.
He pointed out as an example an area where curbinq would be installed.
TIe said the city was working with the County for the possible installation of
markers and barricades in the bad curve areas so a vehicle would not ju5t �
go off the roadway and hit the trees or the constructions. He said this
is the farthest step that had been taken, the City was now woxking with the
County.
Mayor Liebl said he would like to ask a questian. Mayor Liebl read the
title of �age 3, "Consideration of Rednced Safety Improvement Program £or
SPECIAL SESSIDN - EAST RIVER ROAD� MARCH 5, 1973 P�GE 5
East River Road", item from one to seven, he added, it say�, some items
� the CouncLl has approved, five of them. He said it is implsmented in the
resolution that was sent to the County. He said he woiild like the
Citq Engineer to read the items and ask the Council members what their opinions
are on the items.
Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer to read item numher one• The City
Engineer said it basically means that there is a general consensus that there
should be three fully actu�ted signals at Georgetown Apartments,
61st o� the school entrance� and Mississippi Street. The City Engineer said
the City does have two signals, the thzrd signal as he had pointed out, he said,
had been eliminated because of the non funding of the Federal Government
and the non availability of funds. He said the City had passed a resolution
other than this requesting the construction of a signal at Georgetown and
Downing Box.
Mayor Liebl asked the City Enqineer if he was correct, if the Council by a
unanimous resolutzon in 1972 did approve the three intersections signalization,
right? The City Engineer said yes. Mayor Liebl said the Council also approved
the development of this intersection including Mississippi, Georgetown and
Downing Box and 61st. The City Engineer agreed. Mayor Liebl said this would
also provide the complete storm sewer system to take care of the drainage and
icy conditions towards Mississippi Street to about 300 feet down. Mayor Liebl
asked the City Engineer what he thought was behind this, how it would be
unplemented and who would pay for it.
� The City Engineer said this would have to be broken down into two
stretches because �he_Council had approved a plan from north of I. #694 to
Rice Creek and basically said that you wanted three signals, would allow
dividers next to the intersections, but you would not allow dividers in the
stretches in between. The Crty Engineer said at present the stretch from
64th to about Rice Creek has been approved by the Federal people, and they are
partiaipatinq in this project. In that project the City, County and
Federal Government are participating, this is the way that stretch will be
funded.
Mayor Liebl asked what percentage would be contributed by the City,
County and Federal Government, so the new members of the Council would
know. The City Engineer said the Fedexal Government will pay SOo of Lhe
major improvements. He added, the Federal Government will not pay for utility
easements, they will not pay for certain improvements which are specifioally for
the City or County. The City would pay for some of the drainage, curbing
and the rest of the cost will be paid by the County_ He said the next
level of cost is paid by the County and the lowest level is paid Por by the
City.
Mayor Liebl asked if it would be about 250 of L-he cost. The City Engineer
said it would be less than that amount. Alayor Liebl said this would include
the curb or so�ne of the curbinq. The City Engineer sa�d it would include the
curbing, drainage, and the fixing of the sod and items such as this.
� Mayor Liebl said the Council hqd unanunously agreed on this by resolution
as the minutes will state at the respective Council meeting• The Mayor
asked the City Engineer if he had any idea how many people axe involved in
the assessments on the pro�ect? Mayor Liebl asked £or an approximate
numher. The City engineer said basically it involves the people abutting along
the roadway and in some areas, there are not many. He said Hirsch Brothers
is one large apartment owner and south of this,there is more property. The City
Engineer added, the City is talking about only a small stretch of the
totai length of the roadway. He said the hearing had been on an area larger
than the stretch that is being completed now.
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5� 1973 PAGE 6
Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer just for the record, if the Council
had the proper hearing and went through the procedure and then dzd the Counczl
adopt a resolution? He said he thought this would have been in 1970 when ,
he was Third Ward Councilman. Mayor Liebl added, the Council readopted the
resolution with some modification in 1972. He asked the City Engineer i£ this
information was correct. He said the dates of the action should be £urnlshed
to the new Councilman. Mayor Liebl a15o stated at the time of the adoption
o£ the resolution there was no objection by the people after the hearings,
so the Council unanimously adopted the resolution. Mayor Liebl again
questioned the City Engineer saying, to the best of your knowledge, is this
correct.
The City Engineer saxd the ma7ority of the ob�ections were eliminated because
the people �ust did not want the crossover and the praject was divided and the
crossover was eliminated. He said this was the basic ob7ection. Mayor Liebl
agreed.
Mayor Liebl questioned the City Engineer asking, but there was nb ob]ection to
the Mississxppi intersectzon as it was presented and the Council unanimously
voted on it, taking in the whole Micro Station and acquiring it to make
a proper intersection as the City Engineer laid it out and as it was presented
to the City by the County? The City Engineer agreed.
Mayor Liebl said they would go to item number two o£ page 3, stating
"Ob7ections to divider, especially between 61st and Mississippi Street, so divider
should be eliminated except at intersectians". Mayor Liebl said, but the people
did concur and the Council concurred that a divider would start 200 feet south �
o£ the intersection in order to get the left turn lane installed there. Mayor
Liebl said, this was approved by the Council, he asked if he was correct
in this point.
The City Engineer said the Council approved dividers basically on the intersection
wherever it was necessary for channelization and the intersection aXeas`�were
in this area. I3e added, this would vary aocording to the intersection.
Mayor Liebl called the Council's attantion to item number three, "Whether or
not to remove the house at 100 Rivers Edge Way to give the people in the area
a choice to be able to make a safe left turn at the proposed signal (no additional
cost to the City -- full compensation to homeowner)". Mayor Liebl said this
item was not approved, he asked the City Engineer if he was correct on
this point. The City Engineer said yes. He added, there was to be a house
taken and we choose not to take this. Mayor Liebl said this is north of the
crossing at 61st. The City Engineer agreed, saying, it is by the school.
Mayor Liebl went on to number £our, "Whether or not to grade and buYld Ashton
Avenue connection to proposed 61st signal to give the property owners on the
east side of East River Road a choice of making a safe left turn at 615t Ave�ue
signal."
Mayar Liebl said this had not been approved by the Council and there was
heavy opposition by the people at that time. Ae asked i£ he was correct on
this. The City Engineer said yes. �
Mayor Liebl referred to item number five, "Whether or not to provide the
roadway connection and walkways to provide poSSible safe pedestrzan access
to the school". Mayor Liebl said the Council had conaurred with this item and
SPECIAL SESSTON - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5, 1973 PAGE 7
so did the people at the public hearing. He added, this is the walkway
and the City is going to have a hearing on this matter again.
� Mayor Liebl said number six, "Whether or not to take the whole gas station
for improvement of Mississippi Street intersection (part of work done already
according to plans)". Mayor Liebl said this had been unanimously approved by the
Council.
Mayor Liebl said number seven was also unanimously approved by the Council.
"Whether or not to provide divided roadway as South of i. #694 along industrial
property �bad curve - 4 deaths. Property abutting mostly industrial and
multiple dwellings. Better chances o£ Federal funding £or at least thi5 portion
up to 61st.)" Mayor Liebl said this was approved and asked the City Engineer
if this was correct. The City Engineer agreed.
Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer i£ he would suggest those points which
axe approved would be implemented? The City Engineez said certainly, that
is a step in the right dzrection. He added, but what the Council approves, does
not really mean it is going to be done because the City contributes a very
small portion of the money for the actual improvement of the roadway. The
Federal and County Goverrunents are participating more in the cost. He said
in othex areas, unless the Federal Government gives the City money whiah has been
denied at this stage, the County would have to fund the section from about north
of 61st to the Freeway.
Mayor Liebl said he had one question which was very important in his mind.
� He added, he thought this should be understood by the members of the Council.
He asked, when did the City adopt a policy that the Council had so £aithfully
followed since he had-been on the Couneil for seven years in regard to assessing
the people for the curb on a project like this? The Mayor added, for normal
curb and for the gutters? Mayor Liebl asked when this was adopted?
The City Engineer said this policy had been in effect for as long as he
had been with the City, and this was ten years. The City Engineer said the
Finance Director could tell the Mapor more about this.
Mayor Liebl asked the Finance Director if he had any idea when this had
been adopted, what year�
The Finance Director said he did not know, but it was probahly a little more than
ten years ago.
Mayor Liebl said the City had set a precident where no property owner would
be assessed for more than a norm.al curb and gutter on a residential street.
The Finance Director agreed saying, on a County Road. Mayor Liebl asked
the City Engineer if this was correct as he would like to establish if th-s
is and has been the policy. The City Engineer sazd the basic policy zs that no
residential property, no matter where it is in the community, is assessed for
more than a normal residential street. The City Engineer said on County Roads,
what the City has done is that the curbing and sidewalk are assessed which comes
to about a little more than half of what a normal residen�e in other areas.
� He repeated, you assess the curbing and sidewalks for residents on County
Roads. The City Engineer said in this case there is no sidewalks being put in
so it would be bysically the cost of the curbinq.
Mayor Liebl asked the Crty Engineer i£ he would be correct to assume if
the City would not assess the property owners for this, would the City violate
the policy which was adopted ten years ago by the Council and which has been
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5, 1973 Paqe 8
followed by the Council for the past ten years? The City Engineer said he
assumes this is the policy the Council had and also by the resolution last year �
relaying the whole thing.
Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer if to the best of his recollection
the City has ever asked anybody or in the past has the Council waived this
policy? The City Engzneer said not to his knowledge, Mayor Liebl thanked
the City Engineer.
Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer if his recommendation would be to go
a�ead this year as the Council adopted by resolution on two occassions, in
1970 and in 1972 with a speedy xmplementation of this improvement south of
Mississippi including a complete renovation and upgrading of Mississippi
and East River Road? Mayor Lzebl said as the motlon stands now, and the resolutlon
adopted, that would be happening this spring. The City Engineer said yes.
The contract has been let and the work will start this construction season.
Mayor Liebl asked if there were any questions from the Council in regard
to what the City Engineer had told them. Mayor Liebl asked CounCilman
Nee if he had any questions. Councilman Nee said no, he would just as soon
the City Engineer go ahead the way he was going.
Mayor Liebl said he would like Councilman Nee to be fully aware of what
the Council had done in the past so i£ there is any objection by the Ward
Councilman he would like to know because the Council woul$ have to act with speed
to implement plans before construction. Mayor Liebl said if there is a change
of mind within the honorable body, he would like to know because he did �
not want to use anybody's money. He said he would like to establish in his
mind and also the Councilmen's what the policy of the Council has been and
what direction the Council would have to go to .implement a safer road
on East River Road.
Mr. Don Mittelstadt addressed the Mayor saying, he thought it was too late to
make any changes in plans in this stage. He said it goes back to the Federal
Government if the City postpones it five years. Mayor Liebl asked the City
Engineer if this was correct. The City Engineer said he thought at some
scage once a resolution is passed, you are bound by the agreement unless it is
agreed mutually by the parties involved. He continuea he was sure that changes
would be difficult with the County and the State. Funds have already
been incurred, the pro�ect has already been let, and certainly the City ��
would be liable for some money if nothing e�se at this stage. Mayor Liebl
said we should certainly live up to it.
Mr. Mzttelstadt asked the Finance Birector if'anyone had been assessed on
East River Road as of this date? The Finance Director asked xf this was for
street improvements? Mr. Mittelstadt 5aid for County improvements, The
Finance Director said not that he i5 aware of. The Finance ➢irector said there is
no curb along there. The City Engineer said not to his knowledge. Mr. Mittlestadt
asked if aiy figures had been given out? The Einance Director said the City
had been given estimated assessment figures for curb and gutter, yes, because
when the City held the hearing it developed an estimated assessment role. '
He added, of course, when the assessing department gives searches and once the
Council orders a pro7ect in, the Assessing Department is requzred to include
this in an assessment search. The Finance Director said there is storm 5ewer
work and also curb and gutter, but no sidewalks. The City Engineer said no,
there are no sidewalks on this property.
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST R2�ER ROAD� MARCH 5, 1973 PAGE 9
Mayor Laebl said he thought that ansWered the question by Mr. Mi*telstadt.
� Mayor Liebl said to the Finance Director, you are the man who figues this out
in regards to the estimation as you get the figures from the City Engineer.
Mayor Liebl stressed that the Council had only lived up to the policy which
the Council adopted ten years ago. The Finance Director said there had been no
change. Mayor Liebl said the Council did not in any way sway from it or change
it. The Finance Director agreed.
Mayor Liebl directed the City Engineer to continue_
The City Engineer said he had given the Council a quick review of what had
been done. He added, the City has come along ways, but he felt it had a long
way to go iP the City was going to make the road safe. He said he would like
to quickly go over what mose could be done to make tha roadway safe. He
referred to page 16 saying, he had outlined what can be done. The City
Eng�neer pointed out areas which need improvements such as providing re£lectors
with illuminators, rail guards, better marking, better lighting and generally
�.mprovements to the signal areas.
4ouncilman Nee asked what the markings on the map represent�d. The City
Engineer said they were reflectors. Councilman Nee asked if they were to mark
the edges. The City Engineer said yes. The City Engineer said if the curve
is a bad one, those guards are put in to stop cars from leaving the roadway.
He added, iP a better, more permanent 5olution is desired, curbing can be used.
Mayor Liebl said the Council had hearings on the area up to the intersection of
� Mississippi Street and not too many people were notified north o£ there.
He referred to the red area of the map saying those people were notified and it was
a two stage improvement. Councilman Nee said he }ust wanted the language.
The City Engineer pointed the area of the highway which is already divided
saying some additional lighting and signals would help. He said unfortunately,
the serious accidents had happened in that area, but mostly this is not a
bad stretch. He said the bad area is from this area on. He said he would like
to unplement the entire plan that had been originally proposed with the divider
and everyt?zing else. He said if the Council does not wish to do this, certainly
they should go to what the Council has approved by resolution. He said the
question is where does the County qet the money to fund this pro�ect as
certainly there are other areas they are spending money. He listed the
Mississippi St, and the Railroad crossing saying they will take a great deal of money.
He said he would like to see this implemented and also better lighting
which would light both sides. He added, if the divider is not installed,
it would not be the place for the lights as they would be more hazardous than
adding the safety of lighting. The City Engineer said the area north of 64th
to Rice Creek will be taken care of quite well, but beyond this, better turning
lanes should be provided. He said if the area is extended and the service road
is constructed, individual drivers should be instructed to come to the intersection
and obtain aCCess to East River Road by a left turn movement.
The City Engineer referred to the Osborne Rd., East River Road area saying as
� he had already pointed out, there had been a plat that had been approved which
would connect 75th into Osborne Road and East River Road providing a better
intersection with turning lane movement and a part of the intersection divided.
He said this would allow for a better controlled intersection and people could
go to the intersection ar,d make a safe left turn there.
The City E�qineer said when the money i5 available, the same thing will be done
on 79th and also on the north area.
SPECIAL SESSION - EASS P.IVER ROAD� MARCH 5� 1973 PAGE 10
The City Engineer said some of the other points are that the City work
with the County to see that the traffic from the north is minimized, but there �
is a limit to how much traffic can be put on Highway #47 and Highway #65, because
already the highway is getting clogged up with traffic in these areas and
unless the City can do something to improve this, the traffic will get so
crowded that the people wi11 be Eorced to come back to East River Road,
He said there are only three foutes available and if one area is made more
difficult, they will go onto the highways, but when the highways become too
crowded, the people will come back to the roadway we are trying to protect.
The City Engineer said another positive stop would be to work with the
15 governmental units to provide another bridge crossing between interstate
#694 and Champlin. He said this would certainly relieve a major problem on
East River Road, He added, as he pointed out to the Counoil previouslp, this
is a very expensive pro7ect and it would be in the neighborhood of $15,000,000
and it is not even on the map as yet. First the road has to be on the
State Highway routing and for this you have to go to the Legislature. He said
after this is done, it is a matter o£ funding, and they are so far behind in
their funding that the figure that he had given the Council o£ fzve to ten
years is a realistic figure. The City Engineer said unless a miracle happens,
the bridge will not be put zn soon.
Mayor Liebl referred to page 16 of the City Enqineerk' summary and asked
which items have been approved by the Council and which items are funded or
are pro�ected to be funded�
The City Engineer said item number A is 37th and East River Road and trhe �
City has already signed an agreement with Minneapolis and Anoka County that
is under progress now. He said these are things that are not off in the
distance. He said he is not pointing out which the Crty has now, but
what they hope to provide in the future. He said at the F.M.C. entrance
and the Burlington entrance, there is enough cross traffic that a signal
could be provided. He said the Council had passed a resolution on thisr but
the County has not got funds available at the present time for this
improvement. He continued to point out the various areas which will be
improved when the funding is available and the right of way is obtained.
The City Engineer said the City is workinq with the City of Minneapolis
to eluninate the clogging of traf£ic on University Avenue south of the
Freeway going toward town. He said if the traf£ic would move faster in these
areas, it would take some of the tra£fic £rom East River Road which is at
present a quick access to the University area. He said if the condit�ons
on Universrty would improve, they would use University.
The City Engineer said when the Freeway is completed from Minneapolis, this
would take some of the traffic from the intersection at 2. #694 and East
River Road.
Mayor Liebl referred to item K on page 16, Needed Improvements and/are
Actions for East River Road Traffic Safety, "Drainage problem across �oad
correction planned 1973". He asked the City Engineer to veri£y or stipulate �
the meaning of the rtem. The City Engineer said there is a bad curve at
the Mississippi intersection and also north of the Mississippi intersection
he added, there have been serious accidents in the area. He recalled the
recent accidents reported by the Public Safety Director. He said these
plans call for a structure to carry the water rather than let it run across
SPECIAI, SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5, 1973 Fage 11
the roadway and freeze causing hazardous conditions. He said he must point
out that the structures would not eliminate the water, because the water
� must be caught by the structures befoxe it ran across the roadway. He
said any water coming from the east up to the curbing would be caught by the
structures. Any water that £alls west of the structure would still run
across, so, there would still be some water running across the roadway,
but the amount will be much smaller.
Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer i£_khe drainage problem which he is
referring to would be included in the cost of the overall road construction
pro�ect. The City Engineer said yes. Mayor Liebl asked who would be paying
for this, the overall pro7ect or the property owners, themselves� The City
Engineer said it would be both. Mayox Liebl said this would be done by the
policy of the Council under previous action. The City Engineer agreed.
He pointed out the area where the drainage problem would be taken care
of along East River Road between 64th and Rice Creek. He added, this is
also a problem in other areas on the roadway that are not in the program,
but he hoped in time these drainage problems would be taken care of. He
said he is sure Councilman Nee is aware of the aumber of areas where the
water runs across the roadway. The C�ty Engineer said in time, these areas
would have to be taken caxe of with the cooperation of the County.
Mayor Liebl asked the Crty Engineer if he had completed his presentation
to the Council. The City Engineer said, unless someone has some questions.
Mayor Liebl said he would like to open the meeting up for questions about
� the presentation or about what the Council had done at two prev�ous meetings
when they adopted two resolutions, a£ter two public hearings and the people
were informed who would be involved in the plans along East River Road. He
said the people were informed by notification or by letter. Mayor Liebl
said Councilman Breider and himsel£ had worked extensively for two years
on this matter, anfl they are fully aware of L-he matter. He said he
believed Councilman at Large, Utter is also very aware of the problem.
Ae said he was dixectvng his questions on what the Council had done in the
past to Councilman Starwalt and Councilman Nee.
Councilman Starwalt said he did not have any questions at this time. Mayor
Liebl said the Representative o£ the Third Ward at that tune did vote in
favor of the overall pro�ect.
Councilman Nee said he had talked to Dick Brown at the meeting recently
and he thought maybe, he could clarify it £oz Councilman Nee, but he had
seemed quite busy and maybe, the Mayor could clarify the point for hun.
Councilman Nee asked what the thinking of the destination pattern that the
bridge and the plans that are being talked about on the northern coridor,
would relieve the load and the expense that has been suggested. He said the
management committee had made a judgement that his east/west sort of thing
would be the way to go and without re£erence to extension of the Preeway up
the ��est side of the River or anything like this. Councilman Nee asked
the City Engineer i£ he could explain how thls would work.
� The Crty Engineer said yes. He added, the City has had what is called
destination studies to come up with who is using the roadway and where the}�
are coming from and going to. He said in five years the traf£ic would
increase 50%, another £ive years�another increase. Councilman Nee said
there are destination studies that show this? The City Enqineer said there
are. The City Engineer said there are people who do go up and loop around
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5, 1973
and once the bridge is in, this would be decreased.
PAGE 12
Councilman Nee said the Crty did not have to resolve the whole system
of freeways in order to document our benefit o£ the construction of the
bridge. Councilman Nee added, it seems to him that the City could do
more in the direction of getting the bridge than they can in getting 18 miles
of freeway that goes from nowhere to nowhere, as far as he can see. The
City Engineer said tl:e Crty must have adequate roadways to carry that kind
of traffic. He added, at this time, if there was a bridge and not a roadway,
the traffic would not work because at this time there are 65,000 vehicles
crossing the bridge. The Engineer said where can the City put 65,000 vehicles?
The City Engineer said eventually, if the brzdge would be put sn, this
means there would be a large volume going across that bridge. He added,
if there are 10,000 to 20,000 cars, there has to be a roadway provide$
to disbuxse those cars.
Councilman Nee said he is looking at the plan, if he would go to the
Highway Department and try to build a case for the whole structure that is
being discussed, he could not because all the road goes to is l,ODO acres
aut at the other end. He said he could see going to the highway department
and saying look at the mmediate future, we need this and you can studp all
the other factors as much as you want. The City Engineer said what the
planning problem has been in the past is that the Highway Department only
pro�ects for five years and the minute a facillty is built it is obsolete
because the funding is not provided and they do not plan ahead. The City
Enqineer said what they are talking about is not 1975, it is 1980 and 1985
and 1990. xe added, you must look a the picture better, in 20 years, what
kind of City was Fridley 20 years ago, what kind of population growth,
�oning, and change in areas have taken place in Coon Rapids, Blaine,
and Fridley? He said it must be pictured 20 years from now� and what kind
of population can be anticipated from the north area. He said if the
growth rate continues as it has done, there is going to be an almost doubling
of the population. He said there has to be some kind of system to handle that
grotdth .
Councilman Nee said he did understand this. He added, he �ust thought the
City could make a much stronger and more urgent case for the bridge and
a few miles on each side of it than could be made for 18 miles of highway
that goes nowhere.
The City Engineer said there must be an overall plan, he did not say the
bridge and the highway would be put in one overall package. He said certainly,
one section of it can be built, but it has to fit into some overall plan.
Councilman Nee asked if the City Engineer knew what the schedule was on
the v�est side? The City Engineer said yes, it was supposed to be completed
in 1972. Councilman Nee asked to where? The City Engineer said all the
way from Interstate #694 to downtown. Councilman Nee said so the bridge
would not take anything from that, would it� The C1,ty Engineer asked if he
was talking about the north? Councilman Nee said yes. The City Engineer said
the roadway in this area, I. #694, is not planned for improvement for a long
tittte. He said the basic problem that has delayed the construction of the
freeway is going through the park. He added� there has been conflicts back
and forth, and finally it has been solved and it has been put back on_the
schedule, but it will not be completed until 1975 or 1976.
�
�
�
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER P,OAD� MARCS 5, 1973 PAGE 13
Councilman Nee asked, so the bridge is really not going to be the najor
� solution? The City Engineer said it wi11 be a ma�or solution, but it
must be pro�ected ahead 20 years. He said once the population is doubled,
and the people can cross the highway� the pro�lem will not be solved.
He added, unless there is some kind of crossing, this problem will not be
solved. He said all the traffic systems are going to take billions of
dollars and rt is going to take a while. The City Sngineer said the
studies that axe being used now go to 1990 and they indicate that only
150 of the people will be usinq the transit system at that time.
He said many will drive from the outer areas and come to areas to pick up
a bus.
Mayor Liebl said he would like to recess the apecial session until aEter
an ad�ourment of the regular meeting.
The City Enqineer said he hoped the Council would lzsten to the Public
Safety Director, because it is thexr impresszon that the Crty Engineer is
pushing for more roadways and highways and the Public Safety Director
makes the situation very clear.
Mayor Liebl said they would call on the Public Safety Director after the
regular meeting.
RECESS:
Mayor Liebl recessed the special sesszon at 7:36 p..m.
� RECONVENED:
Mayor Liebl reconvened the special�session of the Council at 10:41 p.m.
Mayor Leibl called on the Public Safety Director to give his presentation
in regard to the report he had submitted to the Council on the East River
Road Enforcement Program.
The Public Safety Director said he did not know if the City Engineer
had completed his report.
The �CS.ty Engineer said the plan that was proposed would provide for
shoulders enabling the law en£orcement officex a place to pull of£ the
roadway and also direct the violator to pull off the roadway. He said
the way the road is now, there are no shoulders, especially north of the Freeway.
The City Engzneer said it is very dange�ous to pull the people off the road
without shoulders. He said proper areas should be provided to receive a
disabled car and also to ticket violators, and this had been provided £or in
the overall plan. He said he kneW the Public Safety Director would agree this
is a dangerous roadway the way it is laid out at the present time. Ae added,
this unprovementi would also be an improvement in law en£orcement. The Ci�y
Engineer said there were not any more questions rie would wnclu�.e his
presentation. Mayor Liebl said he thought the City Engineer had covered
� the material very well in his report. Ma,yor Liebl said the report
had contained everything that had been done in the past and everything that
should be done in the future. Mayor Liebl said it is 7ust a matter of
selling to get the people effected by the ma7or improvements to concur
with the recommendations of the Engineering staff.
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5� 1973 PAGE 14
Ae said the Council must do a selling job to get it implemented and find
the money to do so.
Mayor Liebl asked the Public Safety Director for his oomments on how the ,
Crty can enforce the law as it is written.
The Public Safety Director said he would like to concur with evesything
the Crty Engineer had said, and in essence this is the conclusion he
had drawn in his report. He said the problem in his opinion would_be
to about 80o to 90% engineering. The primary purpose of his report was
to show the City Manager and the members o£ the Council what enforcement
steps have been taken on East River Road and what the results have been.
I3e said 13 months of accident data had been reviewed on the matter of East
River Road,�January 1972 to January 1973. He said Erom this 13 month period
there were 151 accidents reported to the Fridley Police Department, which
is 220 of the total accidents for the entire City of Fridley. When he compared
the number of traffic tags issued on East River Road, he found that 270
of the total traffic tags were issued on East River Roa�. He said there
were an additional 5°0 of traffic tags to the accidents on the roadway.
The Public Safety Director said the amqunt of miles in length of East
River Road compared to the 120 miles of to�al roads in Fridley, has to
be considered as a matter of devotion of enforcement on East River Road
and is substantial. He said this devotion may even be guestioned by some
citizens as to their loss of protection in other parts of the City because
of the police being on East River Road. He said there is probably one squad
car there at one time of enforcement and with six miles of roadway with �
Eour lanes, and 20,000 cars going through there, the squad car is not goxng
to be that visable.
The Puhlic Safetp Director sald there Was a considerable enforcement ef£ort
in May of 1972, which was planned again. He said this had been the
reason for looking at the statistics. He said he had found that in the
enforcements effort of May of 1972, that the Police Department was quite
successful in the issmng of speeding tickets Which can be done at any time
on East River Road. The Public Safety Director said there had been 152
tags of which 141 were for speeding, but what is discouraging, he added,
is when this is looked at, the accident rate for that month in 1972, went
up over the three previous years.during that month. He said obviously,
the problem was not being resolved. He said he looks at it as '�wo
problems, one problem, the continuous citizen complaints about East River
xoad which crop up and go down and up again, basically because caf the speeding
automobiles, and the children in the homes along the roadway. He said� but
fortunately, this has not been a problem with the accidents and fatalities.
He added, the accident and fatality problem is completely dafferent from
the complaints of the citizens of the speeding of automobiles. He said
that as where the explanation from the City Engineer is the solution.
The logical solution is through engineering. He said he can continue to
put additonal en£orcement on East River Road, but, of course, this would
be done at the expense of the remainder of the City and he did not know
to what avail except for the issuing of more speeding tickets. He said
the basic causes of accidents are following too alose and improger turns, �
which he understood are two of the most difficult violations for an officer
to substantiate by observing. He said there are several factors he has to
prove for following too close, for example, it is very simple to put radar
up and say a person is speeding, but on East River Road as the Czty Enginees
has pointed out, it is not that simple. He said as the Council is well aware
a radax car must be put off to the szde o£ the road and there are just a£ew
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5, 1973 PAGE 15
places that that can be done on East River Road. He said in the area
� where most complaints are coming from is a residential area and there is no
place to put the squad car. He added, there has to be additional places
to stop the violators safely and safely, also for the rest o£ the rest
of the traffic coming down the xoad, he said, if you stop a person in
a traf£ic lane, it would cause an accident.
The Public Safety Director said these are all enforcement problems on
that section of highway. He said the £our �atal accidents for 1972 had
been examined and reviewed and the hours of ihe day were reviewed and again,
they almost indicate to be inverse of the way the complaints are. He
listed the times of the day that the accidents had occurred: 12:15 p.m. -
violated traffic signal; 11:42 p.m. - left roadway, hrt tree; 12:16 a.m. -
failed to yield, over center line; 6:49 a.m. - left roadway, possible
driver fatigue. The Public Safety Director said he thought most of the
fatalities are £xom cars l�aving the xoadway and going across the centex
line or striking�head on or improper turning. He said whether this is
because there is not a left hand turn signal or what, he said he was
not sure without checking the particular intersections.
The Public Safety Director said in examining data, what the Police
Department is sayinq is, the reasonable inaction, no matter how much is
put out there is not important, within reasonable limits according to
what in£ormation the Department ha5, ls not going to reduce the numbex
of accidents, if that's what is considered the problem. He said if the
� City wants to reduce the number of complaints, yes, they can continually
put Police Cars out there and wsite speeding tickets and show them the
number of tags that have been issued. He said in all likelihood, the
traffic would be slowed down by this action, it is slowed down for a
period o£ time, as has been witnessed before, but as the tickets start
dropping off over a lengthy period of time, and the complaints are decreased
and the enforcement factor is re�uced to a normal level, then the complaints
start coming in again because the cars start speeding up again. He said
that he would like to emphasize that speed has not necessarily been the
contxibutosy cause for the ma7ar accident5. He said 19 accidents out o£
the 152 were contriubted to excessive Speed, where 32 were for improper
turning or following too close.
Mayor Liebl said to Mr. Hill, from the presentation, he had said the iaa�or
cause of the accidents was the design of the roadway, itself� The Puhlic
Safety Director said yes. Mayor Liebl added, at ce�tain points of the road
within the City of Fridley? Again, Mr. Hill agreed. Mayor Liebl said in
order to get to the bottom of the matter, the City would have to go to the
particular points and solve the problems there? The Public Safety Director
agreed. Mayor Liebl said then the Police Department could enforce the
laws adequately? Mr. Hill said yes, enforcement is very impoxtant and
has to continue, rt has to supplement engi�eering, you have to enforce
what is constructed there. The Public Safety Director said he had not
examined the problem over the length that the City Engineer had, but in
hi�s obsexvation, he would have to make the same conclusion that basically,
� the roadway is not designed to carry the volume o£ traffic that at is
carrying. He said, we all know this traffic is qoing tio continue, so the
answer is not to put more police cars out theze to slow down the volume.
The Pul�lic Safety Director reCalled a comment by Mr. Mittelstadt while he
was on the Council, that it is a harsh thing to do, but to slow down the
traffic,semiphores can be installed that are radar aontrolled and will
turn a signal liqht red if a car speeds. He said you can imagine the
cost of slowing down the cars and there will be a 7am up every rush hour,
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD� MARCH 5� 1973 PAGE 16
The Public Safety Director said there are simple ways to slow the
traffic down,but, of course, this Ys not the answer to the £atalities.
Mayor Liebl said he would like to see the resolutions that the Council �
has passed on two occassions after the City had hearings with�the people
who were involved. He said he believed this should be brought to the
Council again and implemented north of Mississippi, having some projection
laid out utilizing the input of the Police Department and utilizing the
input of the City Engineer and then going to the people for their opinion
before the City proceeds on the second stage of the East River Road
improvement pro�ect.
Mayor Liebl asked Conncilman $reider if he concurred with the recommendation.
Councilman Breider said yes.
Mayor Liebl said the Council could also receive the input £rom the Ward
Councilman, Mr. Nee. The Mayor said as the Public Safety Directos had
pointed out, the City has to get at the ma�or problem. He said he thought
from Mississippi to the Creek is the worse area along the roadway.
Mayor Liebl said this had to be straightened out and in order to do this, it
is going to cost some money to acquire some prop�xty. He said this is the
area where there are quite a few accidents especially where the turn is
made, it ought to be straightened out, He said he Lhought thzs had
first priority. The second would be to enforce the traffic laws because
this would make it more physically possible for the police o££icers
to do their 7ob as they are now risking their lives to go out there.
Mayor Liebl said he would like to see, as soon as possible, that the City �
go ahead with the implementation of Mississippi and East River Road at
the intersection, that a11 lights that had been approved be installed as soon
as possible, to lighten up some of the darker corners there, which could
cause a traf£ic accident, and work after the lower area is completed, to
complete the area on the south. He said the City would need the cooperation
of the County, because funds are needed, but he Y.hought the issue should be
discussed intelligently to give the people of the area a proposal. He
asked the other members o� the Council if they agreed with what he had
said, that this would be the only way to go. He said he also felt it lmperative
that the City Engineer and the Public Sa£ety Director present their sides
at the time of the Public Hearing so the people have an overall idea of what
the Councrl is talking about. He said it should be approached with a comtnon
sense discussion as this is what it will take to amplement and rectify the
problems on the East River Road. Mayor Liebl said he would like to have some
comment by the other members of the Council.IS this the way they Would like
to go, Mayor Liebl asked, or what �lse can the Council do?
The Crty Manager said he would like to discuss one thing as 1t is kdnd
o£ a complicated process to get the County to do something and of course,
the Crty is the one that has to be the buffer with the citizens in the area.
The City Manager said perhaps, to start this process the Citp should of£er
some proposals, possibly at some public hearings and then go into the County
with a firm proposal as presented by the City Council. He said this is
actually a political process of actually talking the County out of more �
resourses for Fridley and we can_approach them with the Council unified
p1us, the people generally satisfied if that is possible and take care of
some of these problems.
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD� MARCH 5, 1973 PAGE 17
Mayor Liebl said he agreed with the suggestions of the City Manager that
the progress should be done in stages, and the people should be called in
� for a public hearing. Ae said the specific sections of the overall plan
should be explained to the people, this is the way to present the case
based on fact, he added, he thought this was the way to present the case
instead of the people relying on hearsay. He said he learned his lesson
as one time the Council was shot down, but the second t�m.e the people
understood what the City was after. Ae added, the Council was not
trying to blow their horns, but the City will have to get to the County
and he thought the Council can unanimously agree on a proposal, the County
will recognize that the City Fathers o£ Fridley are united and want this
done. He sai� he thought this action would impress the County Commission.
Mayor Liebl called on Mr. Cisar. Mr. Cisar said he would like to �uestion
Mr. Hill on the possibility of getting a radar controlled light that would
automatically slow down the traffic. He asked, isn't it the main idea to
get the fast traffic off the highway? He added, if it is not fast enough
for some people, they will take another route. Isfl't this what you are
trying to accomplish, he questioned. Mayor Liebl said he believed so,
but asked the City Engineer if the City had the authority to do so.
The City Engineer said this type of lighting is an experimental type of
lighting and he has checked with several communities and also sent
brochures to the County for their review. The City Engineer said Mr. Hill
had had some experience wrth this type of lighting in another wmmunity
and California. The City Engineer said he would have to stress that only
� 15o of the accidents were related to speeding. Speed is certainly one
consideration, but not the only consideration, the City Engineer said.
He said there are a number of other factors that enter into the safety
o£ the roadway.
Councilman Breider said he would like to ask the Public Safety Director
a question concerning speeding and following too close. Councilman
Breider asked, are they not related? The Public Safety Director said
not necessarily. FIe added, more than likely, a percentage of them wi11 be
related. He said there can be cases of following too closely in snowy
and icy conditions. One might be following behind and not at an excessive
speed limit and still this is following too close for the conditions.
He said if the first car stops, there is goii,g to be an accident. Ae
said even though he was the one who had first proposed the radar controlled
traffic signals, he still felt they were a good idea, he is not saying
this will solve the fatalities or the accidents. He continued, all he
is saying is that it is going to stop the spceders and complaints of
speeding, he said, it may increase the accidents because of the back up of
the traffic. Ae said the stopping and the going and the following too
close are one of the main causes in the increase in accidents. He
stressed, all this would do is stop the complaints of speeding.
Councilman Utter said over a period of time, this would probably
eliminate the accidents because o£ the reduction in speed level. He
added, so many people take the road beoause they can go like mad. He
� added, if they have to go slow they will probably find another route.
The Public Safety Director said aS the City Engineer said, this is an
experiment. He added, he did not know what would happen, it would slow
the traffic down, this is the only thing that would happen. Whethex
or not it would stop the accidents, that is speculation. He said the
occassion he had to be involved with it, it did not involve anything but
speeding �omplaints. He said it was on a side street that children crossed.
SP�CIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5, 1973 Page 18
Mayor Liebl asked if he had the co,ncurrance of the Council that the Council's
position be reaffirmed in what had already been approved and what the
City had money Eor from the County and the City should proceed? He saad �
the City can proceed on the lightinq basis and the City could work up a
proposal which can be presented to the people in regard to the acquisition
of land right of way to make this an easier and more safe route to
travel. Mayor Liebl said one thing to be kept in mind is that if the
road zs made too wide, it xs going to be another hzghway.
Councilman Breider said the ma�or problem is that the City can design the
road and have public hearings and have all the people agree on what it
look like and take it to the County and have the County tell us that it
doesn't qualify, He said this is a problem the City had with the ohhez
hearing that was held. He said the City had come to a conclusion and
the County dropped zt. Councilman Breider said from What he could gather
from working with the County, it is kind of an exercise o£ futility to
design a program and take it to the Council and ask them for help and have
them all tell you, no, rt can't be done. He said it 2s almost a situation
where one should get a few in roads to the Crnl�nty people and have then
�oin the efforts and say okay, we wi11 work it out and see what best fzts
and then go from there.
Mayor Liebl said he did not believe there was any pro�lem with Mike O'Bannon
or Al Kordiak, the County Commissioners, they could be here and give the
Council some of their feelings of what the Czty could get out of the plans.
He said thzs is the kind of cooperation he was hoping for because he felt
the problem would be solved, but they had to start somewhere and probably
the traffic situation is not getting any better it is getting worse and �
getting worse whzle they are deciding to put one foot £orward.
Councilman Breider said he definitely felt the improvements on the Mississippi
intersection should be implemented, it was the .unprovements beyond this
he felt would be difficult as a practical matter.
The City Engineer said he thought they a1l knew, but there had been almost
a million dollars approved by the TOPICS fund. He said the problem is
that the County was ready to go for bids on the project at one time, and
the problem came up when the City cut up the project. He said it did not
meet the standards of what they wanted to achieve under this program. He
said the second road section was pulled out. He said the section that
they are doing is approved.
Mayor Lieb1 said there had been some misunderstanding. He said the people
had written letters in opposrtion to the original proposal because they felt
the Engineering Department had tried to �am something down their throats.
He added, they were aqgrevated and did not approve the original proposal.
Mayor Liebl said this is what he would like to prevent. He would like to
come up with a proposal where the City knows it will not be cut down from
the Federal standards. Mayor Liebl said he did not believe the money would
be there anymore like it had been.
The City Engineer said he felt a good example was the area of 69th and #47. �
He said they had gone all the way from the Govenor to the representatives,
but as long as it does not meet the standards, they are not going to
give you money. Ae sazd the money from the City and County level can be
obtained, but when a community wants the money from the State or rederal
level, the community will have to meet their standards.
SPECIAL SESSTON - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5� 1973 PAGE 19
Mayor Liebl told the City Engineer that the City had obtained money Por
� things that they never thought they could get it for. Mayor Liebl
said the City Engineex had gotten the money for the City, so he felt
it would not be impossible. The City Engineer said they have to take
into consideration that the people who live on East River Road are be�ng
adversly affected by this, there i5 no question about it, but, there
are another 25,000 people in the community that the Council has to be
concerned with. He said the local area and the overall good of the
community fias to be balanced. He said he thought the overall direction
coul� be aohieved� and the City should be Ulorkinq on a section by section
plan to improve as best as it can.
Mayor Liebl said he did not believe anything that had been approved and was
abont to be in the stage of construction could be changed, but if there
were some ideas fox the future, there should be some input.
Councilman Nee sald he had no pxoblems or particular ob�ections. He
thought the recommendations for progress were good to go £rom the ground
up and work with the northtown corridor study. He said, there is one question
he would like answere�, it has been said that people go across the center line.
Councilman Nee said there is no center line.
The City Engineer said he did not believe the problem was driving_ He saxd
there are some drainage pzoblems and there is a problem wrth the straightness
of the roadway. He said what he was saying is, anything that is done would
� be a step in the right direction, there are about 18 items listed and each
one would be a step in the riqht direction.
Couxioilman Nee said he believed just the item of striping more frequently
would be effective. The City Engineer said this is done by the County.
Councilman Nee asked how often this was done? Was it twice a year? The
City Engineer said he thought they did it twice a year, but maybe, they
do not. If they don't, he continued, the City should request them to do
it that often.
Councilman Nee addressed the Public Safety Director and said his repoxt
was excellent, but he had some problems as he belie��ed Mr. Hill was talking
legal de�criptions and they tend to be misleading if the Council �ust talks
about excessive speed. Councilman Nee said following too close, there is
a speed function there, amproper turn, Councilman Nee said he was not
entixely sure he knew what that was, xear end, there is a speed £unction
there, and that more than triples the whole package. Ae continued by
reading skidding, he was sure there was a speed function there, he read
failure to yield.
ihe Public Safety Director said probably 75� to 900 of all the vehicles
on East River Road are speeding. He said the listing are charges or
determinations made by invest�gating the contsibutary factor causing the
accidents. The Public 5afety Direator said this is determined by admission
of the driver or by testimony of witnesses.
, Councilman Nee said when a description is plugged into a report and only
20°s of the acciden�s aze caused by speeding, this is misleading_ The
City Engineer said maybe, he could clarify this point. If you were
traveling down the highway at 30 miles an hour and you leave the roadway
and hit a tree, you die, if you leave it at 45 miles an hour,
there is no 3if£erence, you w�ll die too. Councilman Nee said he was
evading the question. The CIty Engineer said no, the movement of the
vehicle is certainly a factor no matter what is done, but i£ the fatalities
are looked at, what is killing the people is not always speed.
SPECIAI, SESSION - EAST RIVER ROAD, MARCH 5� 1973 pAGE ZO
Councilman Nee said if failure to yield is discussed in terms oE a charge
or legal descezption, this is useful to the police departmettt and other �
people who may say that failure to yield did not include an operating
manner, but thzs is not telling the whole story.
The Public Safety Director said usually, failure to yield does not involve
speeding. Ae added, it includes a slow movement type action like coming out
of a side street into the main flow of traffic.
Councilman Nee asked what an improper turn is as the Public Safety Directar
had described in his report? He asked what type of violation this is? The
Public Safety Director said an unproper turn is taking into consideration several
factors, whether one is turning from one flow of traffic, say east or west to
north or south, in the improper lane, cutting the corner on the turn,
turning in areas where there is no left tuxn or right turn. The City Engineer
said the factor of who has the right of way also enters into the conszderation.
The Publzc Safety Director said there zs no denial, whatsoever, that from the
reports of the Police Department that there is a speeding problem. He said
this is a known fact that 1s substantiated when the Department goes on
a concentrated enforcement effort, when the Department can write 141 tickets
for speeding out of 152 in a short period of time, this is obviously speeding.
He said the point he would like to have the Counoilmen remember is', even though
the radar car was oat there £oz two weeks in the rush hours oP traffic, the
accidents continued. He said, he supposed this was the support to the data
that speeding is not the primary cause o£ the accidents. �
Councilman Nee said he thought the Public Safety Director's description
of speeding and what he Pelt might be two different things, and there is
trouble with the data if this Ys the case. Councilman Nee continued,
it is qurte often aggressive driving behavior and lane changes that may not
exceed 40 miles per hour that cause the pxoblems. Councilman Nee said
he had followed one cff the Police cars down East Rivex Road recently and
everyone was very orderly until the squad car pulled off the Road, �hen
they broke loose. Councilman Nee said he drove at 40 miles per hour to
see what would happen, he said, he held up traffic obviously, but, it was
mastly people zooming by him.
The Public Safety Director said this is techniaally careless driving.
Councilman Nee said there is only one chaYge of careless driving listed.
The Public Safety Director agreed. Councilman Nee said he would agree with
the experimental electronic signs, and would support the use of unmarked cars
if they are not illegal. The Public Safety Director said they are not illegal
if they are not used predominatly. Councilman Nee suggested putting up signs
stating the unmarked c�rs are in use. He said there is some talk that the
cars are not visible.
The Public Safety Director said there is no denying that speeding is not
a major problem and they should be slowed down over a period of time� what
he said he was saying is that the accidents were not stopped by stopping the
speeding, first of all. He said secondly, unless there is a car continually out �
there, the speeding is going to pick back up again. Councilman Nee said he
understood this. The Public Safety Director said he would like to get into
a permanent solution to the problem rather than constant conce�trated enforcement.
SPECIAL SESSZON - EAST RZVER ROAD, MARCH 5, 1973 PAG� 21
The City Engineer said at one time, there was only one signal, nom there
� are seven and the City is proposing five more signals, he added, once there are
ten signals on a stretch of roadway that is only six miles long, the signals
would be tied in and will control what the City is tryinq to achieve.
Councilman �ee said what he would propose is that the City ought to build
to accomodate the load or, accomodate the load to what there is there. xe
said he really did not have any objection to the proposals that are being made
except on this one premise that �t becomes more inviting. He said he thought
this is why people living on the road opposed it, because basically, they had
no confidence in the City that East River Road would not be "the" route and the
main route £rom the north going down to #694, and he thought they were probably
right. He said as long as the City does not have a program that attempts to
balance o£f, and the City does not, the people will not have any con£idence.
He said he would like to get some kind o£ declaration or agreement that East
River Road is basically a local resxdential road, and it may still get the
kind oP load that has been pro�ected in terms of local cars, but the people
have no confidence in the idea that they ase only going to su£fer their own
traffic, until this is documented, and this has not been done. He said he
admi�s he may be quite wrong, but it seems to him the City should be quite
visable and active in providing alternatiVes in the south, and as far as
he knew, this has not been done. He said the City has not been active in
talking to the Metropolitan Council concerning their needs, nor has Anoka
County and Anoka County has the basic responsibility for this. He added� if
Anoka County will not, he guessed the City would have to. He said it
seemed to ham there is a need to systematize relations with the people
� who have tYaffic and flow planning responsibilities in both Minneapolis
and the Metropolitan Council to try to move other options than Marshall.
Mayor Liebl said if the CLty were to talk to MinneapolLS and the Metro
Council, it will have to have something to talk about. Councilman Nee said
yes, the plan must be documented. Mayor Liebl said this is what he wanted.
He added, he thought the people would have more faith in the Citiy if it can
document what they are talking abouG.
Councilman Nee said at the time the people would have confidence in the City,
that the City is making a real effort to handle the traffic but not expand
the roadway but, not by virtue of making it a very inviting roadway At
that_time, they will support the kind of things the City is proposing,
because obviously, there are thoughts behind the plan.
The City Engineer said in the matter of documentation, he said he thought
there was more documentation for this roadway than any other roadway in
Fridley, Anoka County or any other county. He aflded, there has been traf£ic
counts taken several times, there are accident reports, and there are
a number of plans. He said the question Counailman Nee was raising was that
it would invite the txaffic, and in his report he had shown that Highway #47
and #65 are already becoming jammed up and it has been pro7ected by 1975 that
unless there are improvements made, before 1975, there would be more severe
problems on �47 and #65 than there are on East River Road. Councilman
� Nee said there is space to deal with the problems on those highways, and not
on East Rzver Road. The City Engineer said he is not saying there would be
any more danger added, he said the capacity is what adds to the danges.
He said the highways are designed £or greater capacity, the curbing, movement
and shoulderS all contribute to giving a more safe area. Councilman Nee said
the City Engineer did not have to convince him, he would have to convince
the people, and there is a creditability problem, they do not believe it.
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER R6AD, MARCH 5� 1973 PAGE 22
The City Engineer said the figures that had been provided by the Public �
Safety Ihrector and himself and also the traffic counts, shouTd provide
proof to the people, he said if thep do not be2ieve this matter, there is no
other way it can be proved, unless the administration would talk to the people
door to door. He said they cannot say this is a residential roadway and the
City will keep it that way, he added, there is no way this can be done, unless
thexe is another super highway put in that crossed the highway and takes off
the traffic, there would be no way to take traffic from #47, #65 or East
River Road. He said there would be some traffic reduction on East River Road
with the construction of the bridge, it will drop to a normal level, it
would again �ump and drop back.
Mayor Liebl addressed Councilman Nee stating the Citq Engineer had very
effectively documented how the construction of the bridge would reduce the
traffic on East River Road, this had been done last year.
MOTTON by Councilman Starwalt to receive the reports submitted by theCity
Engineer and the Public Safety Director. Seconded by Councilman Nee. Upon
a voice vote, all voting aye, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carrYed
unanimouslp.
Mayor Liebl said he thought it would be in order to lndicate to the City
Engineer what type of action should be proposad. He said he would like
to see a resolution brought forth emphasizing the action taken last year
in regards to the improvements and proceed with those unpravements at the
earliest possible date and set out a program which addressed itsel£ �
specifically wrth the problems on East River Road on a sec�ion basis
keeping in mind the overall project as it is laid out for East RiveY Road
from 37th all the way to 85th. Mayor Liebl adressed Councilman Nee saying
what he thought had to be done was to break up the improvements into
special sections, call the people in explaining to them what the City's
intentYOns are because the ma7or fear of the people is if anything is done,
it may increase the traffic, which Councilman Nee had pointed out to the
Council. Mayor Lien1 said he was aware of this fact, and he thought if
the City wuld show them what the City's intentions are, but the City
cannot £ool the Eederal Government on what the intentions o£ the Ci�y are,
because their intentions are �usti£ying putting more traffia on East River _
Road and the people know that. Mayor Liebl said this is the City's
biggest conflict, that is why the people were not going to buy the plan,
they knew it would mean condeming houses and widening East River Road by 40
feet in some places. He said this would increase the traffic, it is not going
to decrease it. Mayor Liebl said the City must indicate this is
residential, but how the Crty is going to do thzs and get by to meet the
criteria of the Federal Government which has been laid out very strictly,
this is a problem t$at the City h�s to master. He said thas cannot be done
without the help of Minneapolis and other governmental bodies. He said
this is the way he looks at the matter, and he had looked at many dif£erent
aspects, and this is the point whzch has to be sold,
Councilman Nee asked if the City Eng�neer still believes that East River
Road will not be a residential road� Mayor Liebl said yes, he knew. '
Councilman Nee said he believed it would be. He said he is not opposed to
any of the things the City Engineer had proposed, he added, they are all very
nice, the people are opposed to them and until the City convinces tihem that
there is a committment in this direction, and the County wide view say�
the tra£fic must be moved somewhere. Councilman Nee said he took a very
parochial view and he believes it, East River Road must be a community
road. He said this would involve Coon Rapids, south of the creek and Fridley.
SPECIAL SESSION - EAST RIVER AOAD� MARCH 5, 1973 PAGE 23
The City Engineer asked what can be done with the 15,000 vehicles whioh
� the Fridley residents are putting on the road? He added, what can be
done with them. The_City Englneer said any road that is carrying 15,000
cars is undex no stretch of the imaqination a residential roadway.
He said he is not saying that is could not be beautified with dividers and
trees to make it look nice, this can be done. He said if the roadway is
going to be used by cars, and it is handling 15,D00 vehicles, the Ctty
will have to provide a safe area for those cars to drive, that is why there
are fatalities. Councilman Nee said the people are killing themselves when
they dxive as they are. The City Engineer said it is the responsibility
of the City and the County to provide an adequate system for the citizens.
Councilman Nee said there is being a load put on the City bec�use of the
access to downtoWn and there is a load beyond what the structure �ustifies,
he said, the load can be �ustified on Aighway #47, but it cannot be 7ustified
on that stretch of East River Road and it is there because Marshall is the
best route.
Councilman Breider said he thought much of this traffic was due to the
bridge across the rivex. He added, he never drove East River Road in the
summer months. He would always use University and Central Avenues. He
said in the winter during bad weather he would always use East River Road
because at least he could get to the bridge. I3e said if he were to take
University Avenue, it would take him a half an hour to get to the bridge.
Mayor Liebl said this is why East River Road is used Councilman Nee said
� he knew this and the City was not making any efforts in that direction.
The City Enqineer said all the items have to be acted upon. He added, the
City would have to keep moving in every area. He said the City would have
to get better signals, better speed control, better roadways, and bettez
access into Minneapolis. All o£ these steps are in the right direction.
He said, but he is not saying that only one of the steps is going to
complete the proqress of the problem. Councilman Nee said he aqreed, and
added, now let's talk to Minneapolis.
Mayor Lieb1 asked the City Engineer iP he would bring the resolution be£ore
the Council again the following Monday. Councilman Nee said there is no
resolution needed, as the thing is goinq. Mayor Liebl said he �ust wanted
to make Councilman Nee aware of what is going on. Councilman Nee said he
is aware o£ what is going on.
The City Engineer said on�e the Mississippi area and East River Road is
completed, it would give the people a part of the pro7ect they can understand
and get a feed back on what has been done on that section of the road.
MOTION by Councilman Nee to ad7ourn the special meeting. Seconded by Councilman
Starwalt. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Mayor Liebl declared the Special
Meeting of the Fridley City Council on the East River Road problems adjourned
at 11:30 p.m., March 5, 1973.
� Opectfu� itte� �
Patricia Ellis , Fran�G1.u,Lieb1, May �
Secretary to the City Council