04/13/2009 - 29227CITY COUNCIL MEETING
CITY OF FRIDLEY
APRIL 13, 2009
The City Council meeting for the City of Fridley was called to order by Mayor Lund at 7:52 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Lund
Councilmember Barnette
Councilmember Saefke
Councilmember Varichak
Councilmember Bolkcom
OTHERS PRESENT: William Burns, City Manager
Fritz Knaak, City Attorney
Scott Hickok, Community Development Director
James Kosluchar, Public Works Director
Don Abbott, Director of Public Safety
Richard D. Pribyl, Finance Director/Treasurer
APPROVAL OF PROPOSED CONSENT AGENDA:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
City Council Meeting of March 23, 2009.
THIS ITEM WAS REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND PLACED ON
THE REGULAR AGENDA.
NEW BUSINESS:
1. Receive Bids and Award Contract for the 2009 Street Improvement Project No. ST.
2009-1.
William Burns, City Manager, stated 11 bids were opened for this project on April 9.
Hardrives, Inc. of Rogers, Minnesota, provided the low bid in the amount of $665,283.83. The
high bid came in at $898,647.20. We had estimated the cost at $793,000. Staff recommends that
Council receive the bids and award the contract to the low bidder, Hardrives, Inc.
THIS ITEM WAS REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND PLACED ON
THE REGULAR AGENDA.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 2
2. Receive Bids and Award Contract for the 2009 Watermain Rehabilitation Project
No. 386.
William Burns, City Manager, stated 7 bids were opened for this project on April 2. Ellingson
Drainage Companies of West Concord, Minnesota, submitted the low bid in the amount of
$205,036.36. The high bid was $438,630. We had estimated the cost at $283,000. Staff
recommends that Council receive the bids and award the contract to the low bidder, Ellingson
Drainage Companies.
THIS ITEM WAS REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND PLACED ON
THE REGULAR AGENDA.
3. Receive Plans and Authorize Advertisement for Bids for Water Tower No. 1
Rehabilitation, Project No. 382.
William Burns, City Manager, said the inside and outside of Water Tower No. 1 needs to be
painted. It was last painted in 1991. The project cost is $589,000. There is $600,000 identified
for this project in the 2009 Capital Improvements Plan. Staff recommends Council's approval.
RECEIVED PLANS AND AUTHORIZED ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS FOR THE
WATER TOWER NO. 1 REHABILITATION PROJECT NO. 382.
4. Appointment — City Employee.
William Burns, City Manager, stated this is for the appointment of a sewer maintainer. Staff
recommends Council's approval.
APPROVED APPOINTMENT OF RICHARD JONES.
5. Claims (141110-141367).
APPROVED.
6. Licenses.
THIS ITEM WAS REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND PLACED ON
THE REGULAR AGENDA.
7. Estimates.
Colt Construction Services, LLC
285 Forest Grove Drive, Suite 126
Pewaukee, WI 53072
85th Avenue Trail Proj ect Estimate No. 2...... $113,103 .03
APPROVED.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 3
Councilmember Bolkcom asked that the City Council minutes and Item Nos. 1, 2 and 6 be
removed from the consent agenda and placed on the regular agenda.
MOTION by Councilmember Barnette to approve the consent agenda with the removal of the
City Council minutes, and Item Nos. 1, 2 and 6. Seconded by Councilmember Varichak.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA:
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to approve the agenda with the addition of the City
Council minutes and Item Nos. 1, 2 and 6. Seconded by Councilmember Saefke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
OPEN FORUM, VISITORS:
No one from the audience spoke.
PUBLIC HEARING:
8. Consideration of an Ordinance Amending Chapter 506 of the Fridley City Code
Pertaining to Vehicle Parking (Text Amendment, TA #09-01, by the City of Fridley).
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to waive the reading of the public hearing notice and
open the public hearing. Seconded by Councilmember Saefke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED AT 8:12 P.M.
Scott Hickok, Community Development Director, stated staff has encountered an increasing
number of public safety concerns related to truck and trailer parking on public streets.
Sometimes they are even parking on frontage roads that are posted "No Parking for Public Safety
Reasons." Staff often finds different types of trailers left in the street, disconnected from motor
vehicles. The existing code limits large commercial vehicle parking on residential streets.
Fridley is very unique in that it allows semi-tractor parking on residential properties provided the
tractor can be parked within 10 feet on the property entirely and not closer than 10 feet to the
property line. We might be one of the only cities in the metro area that allows tractor parking on
a residential site. However, that leaves the trucker to do something with the trailer.
Mr. Hickok stated public safety concerns for motorists and pedestrians on all roadways are a
concern. Staff has used Public Right-of-Way Obstruction, Chapter 110, of the City Code as a
reason to limit trailer parking in that section of the Code. It does talk about obstructing the
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 4
public right-of-way for uses other than the normal use of a public right-of-way. This is not self-
propelled on a roadway and, therefore, fits the public nuisance category. A clearer code
language is preferred, however, when citations need to be issued.
Mr. Hickok stated every summer staff also gets complaints about large motor homes being
parked on the street for several days at a time. The ordinance allows parking for unloading and
loading purposes, but not for an extended period of time. The Code does not define or list a
motor home as a large commercial vehicle, and we do not intend to do that. However, this
ordinance does define what a motor home is for purposes of this ordinance. Due to their size and
the impact on the public safety, staff feels motor home parking on the street should be restricted
as well. State statutes define "motor vehicle" separate from the term "vehicle." Chapter 506
definitions attempt to combine the terms. Staff is suggesting that we separate the terms and use
the State statute definitions word for word to be consistent. Chapter 506 is the City's ordinance
relative to vehicles and vehicle parking. This ordinance will make our language match State
statutes.
Mr. Hickok stated on April 6 the Planning Commission held a public hearing. One resident
appeared to voice concern over not allowing the parking of motor homes on the street. The
Planning Commission voted unanimously to approve the text amendment as written. We did
have an opportunity to talk in further detail with that resident who expressed concerns at the
Planning Commission, and she continued to have concerns about a couple of aspects of the
motor home parking specifically. The proposed ordinance does say that a motor home can be on
the street when loading and unloading. She hoped to get further clarification. One of the things
she pointed out was that a motor home that has been stored needs at least a day to start up the
refrigerator and freezer. She was wondering if it could be parked there during that period. In
the event there is a true dangerous situation where the vehicle is parked so close to a corner that
people could not get out, staff would have to address it immediately. However, staff could put
this to a reasonableness test in their enforcement of this.
Mr. Hickok stated the other concern that was expressed was about the visitor who might want to
come and stay for a period of time and there is no room in the driveway to park the vehicle.
There are several campgrounds within very close proximity to Fridley, and staff would suggest
that is how they handle that situation. Staff needs to balance the needs and wants of the
individual who has a relative coming to visit with the motor home with those of the
neighborhood. Neighbors typically do not want to complain but can be very uncomfortable
about a large vehicle in the street which may make it hard to see down the street or hard to
maneuver around.
Mr. Hickok stated staff recommends approval of the first reading of the ordinance at the City
Council meeting on Apri127 and the second reading at the May 4 City Council meeting.
Councilmember Barnette said trailers are left on the street in his neighborhood. He asked if it
would be permissible to make arrangements with the owner of Columbia Arena to park the
trailer on that property.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 5
Mr. Hickok replied, no, it would not. That is one site which has had problems with parking.
Lately staff has seen trucks parked in store parking lots, in the Columbia Arena parking lot, and
on streets in neighborhoods. In one particular case we found a trucking industry in Fridley that
does not have land for the trucks to park but merely has an office in a quasi-residential area.
They leave their trucks parked on residential streets along Osborne Road and Old Central. It
may be they can make arrangements with a trucking firm in our M-3 District, which is an
outdoor intensive district, to keep their trailers there. They would need to make some sort of
arrangement to keep their trailers someplace safe but yet be able to bring their tractor home.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked Mr. Hickok how many complaints he gets a year about motor
homes being parked in the street?
Mr. Hickok replied Code Enforcement staff gets several a year. He personally in his 15 years
he would say he has had 1 every 3 years.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated would it be defined as 6 to 7 a year does he think during the
summer. She was a little surprised that this included those. Say, 6 to 7 compared to the trailers
and complaints we have related to the big rigs and the trailer parking in neighborhoods. She
asked how many we had for those.
Mr. Hickok replied there really are two distinct problems here. There is the parking on the
street and the parking in parking lots. The parking in parking lots is ongoing thing that we are
working with property owners on. We probably have as many parking on the street issues as we
do motor home issues. That is one of the reasons why motor homes were included. Both
Planning and the Police believe if we are going to address one, we need to address the other. We
need strong definitions of both and we need consistency. They are about the same size. Getting
around them becomes the same issue.
Councilmember Bolkcom referred to the woman who puts the motor home on the street and by
the time they got the letter, they would probably be gone. If the ordinance is changed, could a
police officer ticket the motor home.
Mr. Hickok replied there is a measure of discretion that is designed into the language that says
that, except for loading and unloading, a citation is less likely than a discussion. If there is a
motor home on the corner, and you cannot see around it when driving, that becomes a safety
issue. They would knock on the door regardless of the ordinance and address the matter. If the
motor home is pulled up in front of the house, and there is loading or unloading going on, the
loading/unloading caveat in the ordinance would keep them from being tagged immediately.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked once they are done loading or unloading, it would have to be
put in their driveway until they left, for example, if they are packing for two days.
Mr. Hickok replied, it is the loading and unloading, and then to sit--either they have to have
room to put it in their driveway or they have to find a place for it.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 6
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she has actually heard about motor homes not parked in the
street but hanging over the end of the driveway. Is that something related to the ordinance
change?
Mr. Hickok replied if it is a trailer, fifth wheel, etc., it needs to be 15 feet from the curb. We do
have an ordinance that addresses that right now. If there is a sight-line issue, not even a 15-foot
issue, for example if a property is on the corner and cars cannot see around the corner, we will
address that immediately and would not wait to determine whether it was an unloading or
loading issue. That is a visibility issue separate from what we are talking about.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked what a park trailer was.
Mr. Hickok replied a park trailer is one that is meant to be more permanent or semi-permanent
on a site. You see them pulled down the highway, they have a taller axle. It is not a camper that
is meant to be pulled from campsite to campsite. Instead it is typically put in a park Oftentimes
they put skirting around it and deck on it. It is pretty much like a modular home and the size of
about a typical camper but has a different clearance than a typical camper.
Mayor Lund said park trailers they are very commonly called "park models." There is nothing
new about this in the Code; however, the distinction you want to go by is the 400 square feet.
Once you exceed in a manufactured home—a trailer, park model, etc.—the 400 square feet
determines it being a recreation vehicle used in campgrounds, park models, etc. You have to buy
a license plate. When it exceeds the 400 square feet it is taxed differently. When the 400 feet is
exceeded, it becomes taxed with property taxes. You get a property tax statement rather than
paying for a license plate.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if it was a manufactured home. It says here park trailer does
not include a manufactured home.
Mayor Lund replied a manufactured home, in this terminology, is talking about the kind you
live in year around. Do not get confused by all the terminology because people call them
trailers, mobile homes, manufactured homes, or factory-built homes, etc. It all boils down to the
400 square foot distinction.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked what a fifth wheel was.
Mr. Hickok replied a camper.
Mayor Lund replied an RV.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked does it fall under a motor home or travel trailer?
Mr. Hickcok replied, travel trailer.
Mayor Lund explained a motor home would be something that is motorized. It has to have a
motor in it.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 7
Mayor Lund stated regarding the distinction of 10 feet off the property line, he knew there was
an already an ordinance in effect about the 15 feet from the curb. We are talking two different
things here again. For clarification we already have an ordinance about if you are going to park
a motor home in the driveway, it has to be 15 feet off the curb so as to not encroach sight-lines.
He asked about the 10 feet from the property line.
Mr. Hickok replied this represents two different policy times in Council's history. When the
ordinance was passed about tractor-trailers, the thought was that in order for people to have a site
that is large enough to keep them on and not affect their neighbors, a distance of 10 feet from the
side property line and 10 feet from the front property line is very important. It is going to be rare
that the property is big enough quite frankly in Fridley where you can bring a tractor home. That
was not by accident, there are only a few properties where you can actually bring a tractor home,
but you need to know where your property line is to do that.
Mr. Hickok stated folks who bring their camper home, may be not as sawy about their property
lines and, from an enforcement perspective, we would need to know where the property line was.
To make it easy to enforce, Council just said at that time, no closer than 15 feet to the curb. That
is easy for everyone to digest.
Mayor Lund asked, so in the case of a motor home, as long as it is 15 feet from the curb line
and there is not a sight-line visibility issue, that would okay be under that ordinance. This thing
talks about 10 feet from the property line. We are talking about semi-tractors parked in
somebody's driveway, and it is not right next door to the neighbor's house. It is totally on their
property and not on the right-of-way. There is the distinction between motor home and semi-
tractor.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked why park trailer and trailer were crossed off on Page 26. Is it
because they are all considered trailers?
Mr. Hickok replied, yes. It just makes it cleaner. One of the many things we have learned from
our attorney is that, if you can make it easy to understand and simple, it is much better for you in
the long run. It is better for enforceability, and it is better for people to read it and understand it.
Trailer is trailer in this version, and we do not mess with park trailer v. travel trailer. We have
already through the ordinance tried to define and describe what each of those is. Now we are
just saying "trailer" because it applies to all of them.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked why manufactured home was not crossed off.
Mr. Hickok replied, manufactured home is defined separately. This is just to take all the
different names of trailers and just call them trailers. A manufactured home technically is not a
"trailer". So this distinguishes "manufactured home" and then it just categorizes all "trailers"
regardless of what we call it, park trailer, travel trailer, etc. as a trailer.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked then why is it not just "manufactured home". The rest then
just say "trailer" and then have all the trailers underneath it. If it is separate.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 8
Mayor Lund stated keep in mind these are all definitions.
Mr. Hickok stated, Mayor Lund, you are correct. We tried to keep the definitions here. If you
want a park trailer, or a travel trailer, you can find what you own in this ordinance. As they take
you through the other language of the ordinance, then we are not so worried about it. You see
that this applies if you get into the ordinance, and then we are less descriptive and it just says
"trailers."
Councilmember Bolkcom stated it could be confusing for residents.
Mayor Lund stated staff has put just trailers, meaning all definitions of all trailers. Then it goes
on and says "motor homes" which of course was just added and then the trucks having a license,
gross vehicle weight.
Mr. Hickok replied we are prohibiting all trailers.
Mayor Lund stated and then the trucks are the only ones that play in with the 12,000 gross
weight trailers. Because trailers can have different weight classification.
Mr. Hickok replied, yes. This is meant to be all trailers.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if a motor home was a trailer.
Mr. Hickok replied, no, it is not defined as that. You have to go back to the definitions. That is
self-propelled. That is a vehicle under the statute definitions.
Mayor Lund stated they have it lined out for park trailers and travel trailers. It might be clearer
to just insert the word, "all."
William Burns, City Manager, stated they can note adding the word "all" and have it in the next
version.
Pam Reynolds, 1241 Norton Avenue NE, stated she is opposed to the text changes that have
been recommended by staff as it refers to motor homes. She understands the concern was
tractor-trailers and semi-trucks being parked on residential streets. However, to include the
motor homes in the language is not necessary because Chapter 506 covers a lot of it. There are
several issues that she would like to point out. The first would be the desire of staff, as cited in
their memorandum to Mr. Burns, dated April 2, 2009, to change the definition of large
commercial vehicle to include the term "motor home." Mr. Hickok said it was not their intent to
change motor home to be a large commercial vehicle even though that is how it reads here. The
proposed language change does not show a change in Section 506.02 for a large commercial
vehicle, but instead it adds a separate subsection, motor vehicle. A privately-owned motor home
does not fall under the classification of a commercial vehicle, whether large, small, or otherwise.
The offered definition for motor home falls short of the definition as it appears in Minn. Stat. Ch.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 9
168, Subd. 17. Motor home in the State Statute is quite a paragraph which might clarify some of
the other issues.
Ms. Reynolds stated staff also indicates there is no definition for motor home in the City Code.
This is partially true. In Section 506.13, Parking in Residential Districts, Subsection 2, the term
"recreational vehicle" is called out and to be applied as per Minn. Stat. § 168.011. This definition
includes motor home. Also in the memo is the desire to change the current definitions of
"vehicle" and "motor vehicle" to match word-for-word for those found in the State Statute. The
language offered is not word-for-word with the State Statute. She has that information with her.
Mayor Lund asked if she was going to be sharing that with them.
Ms. Reynolds said she would give it to them. An additional problem her research brought to
light are the inconsistent definitions of "vehicle" and "motor vehicle" as found in other sections
of the City Code. Some of these are, Chapter 509, "motorized vehicle rentals," specifically
Section 509.01, Definitions, Subsection (1); Chapter 114, abandoned junk or unsafe motor
vehicles, specifically Section 114.02, Definitions, Subsection (5); and Chapter 123, junk
vehicles, specifically Section 123.02, Definitions, Subsection (5). Also, there is a reference in
Chapter 512 to motor vehicle. None of them are the same as what they want to change them to.
Every chapter has a different definition.
Ms. Reynolds stated a simple resolve to these issues would be to amend Chapter 501, Highway
Traffic, at Section 501.01, State Statutes by reference to include Chapter 168 of State Statutes as
the official definitions. Or to include Chapter 168 in Section 506.01, State laws compliant.
Many cities call out the exact definitions they are going to use, their code does not list them all
and it kind of gets you away from, is it a trailer, is it a park model, etc.
Ms. Reynolds stated she also disagrees with changing the language found in Section 506.13,
Subsection (6). This chapter is meant to address parking restrictions in residential districts and
shall not be altered to include all zoning districts. It specifically, in the full version of 506, calls
out the definition of residential district.
Ms. Reynolds stated although she did not review all of the zoning district languages, she did find
that some of the commercial and some of the industrial districts have language to address
parking needs and the restrictions for those districts. Chapter 506 currently addresses, in Section
506.04, how long a vehicle can be parked or left unattended on a City street as 24 hours. She
believes this controls motor homes adequately. Section 506.03 states when parking a motor
vehicle a clear and unobstructed width of 15 feet must be left for the free passage of vehicles.
With the current maximum width of most motor homes at 102 inches or 8.5 feet, she believes
this adequately addresses motor homes. Section 506.11 addresses parking on narrow streets.
Section 506.12 addresses parking in congested places. These two sections allow that if the street
is not a normal city width of 30 feet, they have the right to post signs. The congested areas
actually fall to Dr. Burns to decide that people cannot park there. She believes this language as
well adequately addresses motor homes. One thing she would note is that some communities,
instead of banning street parking of motor homes, have developed fee standards and permit
policies so as to allow visitors to their cities.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 10
Ms. Reynolds stated her final issue is with staff recommendation to change the language based
on improving public safety in Fridley. In a 19761awsuit, decided by the Eighth District Court of
Appeals in Ohio, Euclid v. Fitzthum, it was ruled that for government regulation to be within
constitutional boundaries, it must first have evidence of a particular problem affecting the health,
safety, morals, or general welfare of the public. These are all the same issues that need to be met
or fall on the responsibility of this Council when it develops Codes. It must be demonstrated by
some factual evidence, and not just from opinions held by certain members of the community.
Council must obtain some evidence to support these assertions and may not rely upon near
conclusions, opinions, evidence, or hearsay. Restrictions for purely aesthetic reasons are
unconstitutional.
Ms. Reynolds stated she e-mailed Don Abbott and asked him the issues were, the number of
accidents, the number of thefts, and other things that could be looked at as being evidence. He
replied that they received neighbor complaints about RV's parked on City streets, causing vision
obstructions and lane narrowing. They were aware of two of these complaints in 2008. He said
their record system does not lend itself to reporting accidents or thefts specifically related to
RV's but none come to mind. She does not think that two complaints in 2008 constitute
evidence of a problem with public safety. There is evidence to support changing the
inconsistencies of existing definitions, but this issue should be set aside until all discrepancies
have been identified. This would certainly save some taxpayer dollars by reducing the number
of public hearings necessary to correct the overall issues. She believes restricting motor home
parking to loading and unloading goes against the very motto of friendly Fridley.
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to receive information from Ms. Reynolds. Seconded
by Councilmember Barnette.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Ms. Reynolds said she included in the information the Codes she referenced. There is also a
copy from Richfield which shows how they utilize the Statutes as their definitions and one from
Mounds View which has a little bit different twist to motor vehicle. The fact is that 506 is a
fairly big document as opposed to the few little changes that staff is recommending. Most of it is
already covered, she just does not see the need to alter it further.
Mayor Lund stated regarding the comment that other cities do a fee for visiting persons to park
on the street.
Ms. Reynolds stated in Mounds View for up to one week And Circle Pines.
Mayor Lund said that could be looked into. People pay property taxes and they have a visitor,
and then we have to hit the visitor up.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 11
Ms. Reynolds replied, correct, but the lady who spoke at the Planning Commission really was
asking for some parameters and there really are some parameters in there. It says, 24 hours. It
also has to move a 1,000 feet if it has not moved in 24 hours.
Mayor Lund said he does not like that part about the loading and unloading because it is kind of
a gray area. He would rather have a definitive, clear time, say 24 hours. He also sees the other
side. He knows there are a lot of people who do not complain because they do not want to have
an adversarial relationship with their neighbor. Many comments have been made to him about
not liking the vehicle parked net door, even in the driveway, or the vehicle parked in the street,
because their view is obstructed.
Ms. Reynolds stated that would be aesthetics.
Mayor Lund replied yes.
Ms. Reynolds stated in her neighborhood, there is one what she would call an RV. She would
almost prefer that when her neighbor is going to use it, that he parks it in front of his house
instead of taking his three pickup trucks and parking them in front of the house. At least with the
motor home, she knows where it begins and she knows where it ends. Now she has to watch for
kids playing basketball coming between the trucks. The City Code already says that as long as
there are 15 feet, then she is good. She does not think it is necessary to change the Code at all. It
does need definition clarification, but if you change this language, a lot more should be changed
as well.
Keith Nyenhuis, 6216 Stinson, stated they own a motor home and they are contesting this. He
would like to suggest that if people are going to bring these motor homes or RVs, why could
they not call the Police Department, tell them the specific time they are going to have it there so,
if they have a complaint, they can tell that individual, okay, this "X" amounts of days the motor
home is going to be there and then it is going to be gone. He realizes they can be kind of an
eyesore sometimes in a driveway. He said they were responsible. They keep their's in a secured
lot, and bring it home only when they are going to travel with it. The ordinance they are going to
pass, unloading and loading, is a discrepancy of whoever drives by.
Mayor Lund stated he does not like the timeline.
Councilmember Barnette stated he thinks Mr. Hickok sort of addressed that when he said that
by the time we would get a letter out to you within a day or two it would be gone anyway.
Cheri Nyenhuis, 6216 Stinson, stated but Mr. Hickok also mentioned that they could possibly
get a ticket if the police came by.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated that was the question she asked, and she thinks she heard yes.
Mayor Lund stated he is sure that we may hear from people as they have in the past about why
is there a distinction between a motor home (a motorized RV) vs. a non-motorized RV. All
trailers cannot park on the street but motor homes, because they are motorized can. He said he
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 12
does not like the loading and unloading part. It is pretty easy to ascertain why the police officer
is not going to go through that hassle. Most of the time they are going to do it on a complaint
basis.
Ms. Nyenhuis stated it is difficult for people who work, too, to get the motor home out of the
storage yard, get it home, and get loaded. If you want to leave the next morning, you have it out
there overnight.
Mayor Lund stated we are trying to make some balance without being overly restrictive but he
would like to see a change in the timeline to make it less confusing.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if staff had gone over the ordinance once the changes were
made.
Mr. Hickok replied they went through it line by line. Even with the definition of motor home,
they chose between the long statutory definition and the one that is here and ran it by the
attorney's office. Both staff and the City attorney believe the motor home definition that was
used was the most appropriate and easiest to understand. We are very cognizant of the fact there
are other definitions in the ordinance and for purposes of an ordinance, for this ordinance,
"vehicle" is defined as, "motor vehicle" is defined as, "trailer" is defined as; and that is what this
ordinance is about and it is meant to be distinct. Chapter 506 is its own self-contained chapter.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if we should look at the parking restriction.
Mr. Hickok asked, in another chapter?
Councilmember Bolkcom replied, yes.
Mr. Hickok stated, no, he does not believe that. Chapter 506 is self-contained. Each one is
distinct; and each chapter is viewed in its own self-contained way. When you are looking at
Chapter 506 and saying, okay, what am I able to do with a trailer or a tractor or my motor home,
we define it there and staff is comfortable with that.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she would like to review the information Ms. Reynolds has.
She asked if there was an urgency in taking this to a first reading at the next City Council
meeting.
Mr. Hickok replied, no.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she is concerned about the whole motor home thing. In reality
a policeman could come along after seeing this, after seeing the change, and they are going to
check it. The only thing she hears from people is that people have these great big ones parked in
driveways that are right next to them and it is overhanging. She understands that at this point we
can cite those people who have vehicles sticking out into the street. She would like some time to
look this over and have the City Attorney look over the State Statutes. She asked if staff had
looked at other communities and what they have.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 13
Mr. Hickok stated actually there is a constitutional issue with permit parking. You will find if
you were to delve into Mounds View or Richfield ordinance a little bit, you want to be careful
about permit parking especially parking for a fee for a certain resident's benefits.
Councilmember Bolkcom said maybe look at whether it is an opportunity where someone could
get a tag to park.
Mr. Hickok stated she may recall back with Totino-Grace, when we talked about parking along
Arthur Street, one of the possible suggestions was, what if we have permit parking for residents
but do not allow students to park The research at that time was, you would have a real
constitutional issue with that. You either allow parking or you do not. You do not have the in-
between permit issue. You have to be extremely careful of that.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked who defined loading and unloading.
Mr. Hickok said Police staff was involved with the construction of this ordinance and are
comfortable with it. Loading and unloading is something that we are comfortable with from an
enforcement perspective because it is not an ongoing thing. If we drive by today and see it again
tomorrow, we are going to question whether it is a loading or unloading activity or whether they
have decided to park it there. It does leave some discretion, but it leaves the ability for residents
to do what is necessary and plug it in and chill down the freezer and the refrigerator. The second
day it is there, however, we start questioning whether it is an issue.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked Chief Abbott if he agreed. If you see it the second night we
would give them a ticket because it is not loading or unloading, or does it have to be there for
three days?
Don Abbott, Director of Public Safety, replied once a vehicle of any type has been parked on the
street in excess of 24 hours, it is considered an unattended vehicle which is its own issue. So that
will handle that part. If someone drives their vehicle away and brings it back again the next day,
that resets the 24-hour clock which has caused them an issue with this in the past. As far as
would an officer ticket a vehicle if someone was not actively carrying things in and out of it,
officer discretion would absolutely come into play. Could it be done? It is conceivable that if
there was no activity around suggesting loading and unloading occurring it could. Very often
with parking issues like this, they handle them with a verbal warning if people are awake and can
be found, a written warning if they are not, and very typically we give people a day to resolve the
issue before they return to ticket. That would be speaking in general terms.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated so he is saying, for example, she has it all loaded up and it is
sitting there that night, as long as it moves by the next morning and it is gone, he does not
believe a ticket would happen.
Chief Abbott replied, he thinks it is possible under that scenario. It is just very unlikely. It
would depend on the individual officer responding. He thinks it is possible for a ticket to be
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 14
issued in the middle of the night. If nobody is around and it is clearly not being loaded or
unloaded at that time. More likely a warning would be issued.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated so, in other words, unless she packs it up and moves it before
it gets dark, she could get a ticket.
Chief Abbott replied, he would say if it is left at that point, to maybe expand on that scenario, if
the house is dark, locked up, the people are inside sleeping, the motor home is out on the street
and that is locked up and clearly not being loaded or unloaded at that time, he thinks it would be
possible to issue a citation.
Mayor Lund stated he would like staff between now and the next meeting to make some
revisions. We have made a small revision in that last paragraph on page 26. There has been
some input here from Ms. Reynolds and another couple here about that. He would personally
like to see some changes with respect to the definitive timeline, such as a 24-hour period of time.
He did not like the loading and unloading because he thinks that is problematic at the very least.
He would like staff to review that. We have used some of that input here that Ms. Reynolds has
to see if there are any contradictions. Mr. Hickok has reported that he does not see any, but
certainly we can ask them and have staff bring it back If Council feels that more time needed,
they can certainly postpone it at the April 27 meeting. Also, there will be a second reading so
maybe some of those things can be done between now and then.
Dr. Burns stated regarding the Euclid case, he has some real serious concerns that municipalities
are not allowed to enact legislation where we have not proven any concrete evidence of material
harm to public safety, health, and welfare. He can think of plenty of examples where it more
than likely was not the case.
Fritz Knaak, City Attorney, replied the Euclid case is one of the shining lights of municipal law.
It has been around for a while. He would indicate to them that cities are given a considerable
amount of discretion and granted and conceded a certain amount of discretion uniformly by the
courts in enacting legislative ordinances. In that kind of case, you are allowed to make the
decision. It is the City's job constitutionally to make a determination as to what is in the public
health and safety, and courts will, generally speaking, defer to that. The absence of any such
determination on their part would be problematic. However, he has never seen a case, certainly
in his practice, where that has been the case of any client that he has and certainly not the case in
Fridley.
Mayor Lund stated the appellate court in Ohio found that the zoning restrictions for purely
aesthetic reasons are unconstitutional.
Attorney Knaak stated Euclid is actually a federal case. It is a U.S. Supreme Court case. It is
considered a guideline. Most of everything they have learned about how cities are supposed to
behave have been in the context of post-Euclid environment where we all understand, he thinks,
what the responsibilities of municipalities are in these cases.
Dr. Burns asked if we were allowed to legislate anything based on aesthetics.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 15
Attorney Knaak replied, cities are, with some reasonable discretion.
MOTION by Councilmember Barnette to close the public hearing. Seconded by
Councilmember Saefke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 9:18 P.M.
NEW BUSINESS:
9. Resolution Supporting an Application for a Community Development Block Grant
(Traffic Signalization Improvements at East River Road and 61st Way N.E.) (Ward
3).
James Kosluchar, Public Works Director, said he would like to describe what they are asking
the Council to do in relation to a traffic signal at 61st Way and East River Road. He thinks this
was possibly brought to Council's attention by Councilmember Barnette initially. There were
some concerns about safety and the northbound turning movement into Stevenson Elementary
School. They also brought to Anoka County's attention that upgrades were needed for the
southbound turning movement into the new Northstar station. Subsequent to this they did some
research of the history there. They found that the signal was initially installed at the request of
the school district. Anoka County has contacted us and said there may be special allocation of
Community Development Block Grant funds. This was possibly funneled from stimulus dollars
that may be available to us to abate some of the costs of the intersection upgrades and the
signalization. The City cost shares with Anoka County and, in this case, he suggests we cost
share with the school to get this project constructed. The resolution supports an application that
staff has prepared for funding and putting us along the line of making the proj ect even feasible.
Councilmember Bolkcom said this has been an issue for some time. It has been brought up at
block captain meetings. She thinks after the last block captain meeting, they asked that there be
some type of report back to Council on how many accidents have occurred from people going
northbound and turning into the school itself. She believes there were a lot of near misses. Is it
fair to say we would only need that left-hand turn lane into the school because there is a school,
and she would strongly hope that we would work very hard and get a large cost share by the
school district for that. Obviously it is different when it is going southbound into the commuter
rail station area. She asked if there would be any changes to the neighborhood as far as any type
of in and out. It would also decrease the cost because we would not need left lanes.
Mr. Kosluchar replied the project being looked at by Anoka County is very preliminary as far
as design goes. His impression would be that there would be a potential closure to the north of
this intersection on the left side of East River Road. He cannot recall the street name but,
because of the southbound left turn lane extension, that is probably warranted. That would be
discussed in the design phase. There would potentially be access restriction northbound to the
first street north of the Stevenson entrance.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 16
Councilmember Bolkcom said since it is a county road and it would be the County Engineer's
decision and design, we would not have any control over it, correct?
Mr. Kosluchar replied correct.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked how the neighborhood would be informed if the plans go
through.
Mr. Kosluchar stated they have discussed the County getting together and talking about the
potential options if this were to go forward. At that point, we would notify the residents in the
area of the potential proj ect and the impact on their area.
Councilmember Bolkcom said the resolution before Council now supports an application for
Community Development Block Grant funding. She asked what would happen if the application
was not approved.
William Burns, City Manager, said we have fairly good reason to believe that the CDBG money
will be there. What we do not know right now is what the School District will pay. He said he
thought there are also going to look at getting an HRA contribution to this. Worst case scenario,
if there is no money from the County, we are going to abandon the project.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if there is any way there could be an assessment to the School
District? There really is no one that lives in that immediate neighborhood.
Attorney Knaak replied, as a practical matter, unless you can clearly establish they would
benefit, then they would have to consent.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated, and clearly establishing that there is no one that lives by the
school.
Attorney Knaak stated he knows there have been other instances where these have been
assessed to the City of Fridley. Any time you assess there has to be an established measurable
benefit to a property, and that is the amount that is assessed. Here the challenge would be, just as
a threshold, how would you show the value of increase to the School District parcel by the
presence of a light. One could say it is incalculable because of the potential life that is saved,
etc. However, an assessment frankly would have to be a little more prosaic than that; and he
thinks they would be some difficulty in that regard. Secondly, the fact that it is a public entity,
and that it is public land, would make it problematic at best to assess under those circumstances.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked what the solution would be than. Do not put a left-hand turn
there and only put one on the other side?
Dr. Burns replied, that is an option.
Mayor Lund stated we will see where the funding first is coming from.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 17
Councilmember Bolkcom said we should look into whether there is some benefit only to the
school district. There has been one, Councilmember Barnette's own neighborhood helped pay
for a signal. So she is not sure they are treating somebody different other than they are a public
entity.
Mayor Lund stated it seems like they would benefit from it but, as the City Attorney says, does
it increase the value of their property?
Attorney Knaak said that is treating them like any other property owner but because they are a
public entity, there are certain things you can assess and are expressly permitted to charge them
for such as utilities fees, etc. In terms of actually imposing an assessment on another
governmental body, he thinks the answer is going to be, no. Usually in a case like this, you
would expect some cooperation on the part of the other governmental body and that often takes
the form, although there is nothing that would require it, of a financial contribution.
Councilmember Saefke stated it is his understanding the School District is paying for the
electrical costs of the light there now. With the new system, will they still be paying the utilities,
because he knows the City pays for pretty much the rest of them in town.
Mr. Kosluchar stated the typical arrangement is that the City would take on that cost.
Councilmember Saefke stated so the school district will be relieved of what they have been
doing for the last 30 years.
Mr. Kosluchar replied he thinks it would be reasonable to expect that the City would take on the
power costs. Right now the signal exists only for Stevenson.
Councilmember Saefke stated he thinks the school district actually benefits more than just a left
turn lane because it was an ongoing cost for them to pay. If the City winds up doing what we do
with the rest of the lights in town, then actually the City takes on that additional cost and burden,
so maybe we can use that as an argument.
Mayor Lund stated that probably will be in the negotiations when they talk to them about
paying a portion of the signalization. That is a good point.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked the City Attorney or City Manager to continue to work on this
and look at whether there is some case study related to benefit to a school. There must be
schools in other areas that have requested a signal.
Councilmember Barnette said Coon Rapids High School has two signals, and he thought the
school district paid for those.
Attorney Knaak stated school districts have paid funds for that purpose, but they initiated the
proposal and made an offer to pay for part of it. That is not the case here, but it is certainly
appropriate for school districts to do that. They cannot themselves construct and assess, they
must have the City's cooperation to do the construction.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 18
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if they could put a left-hand turn lane into the commuter rail
area and not put one into the school district. It would decrease the cost and they could still apply
for Community Development Block Grant funds.
Dr. Burns said at some point the County might take a look at it from the standpoint of legal
liability. They have already documented an accident there related to the school signal.
Councilmember Barnette stated he thought if we are going to do one, we do both.
Dr. Burns stated they said they are going to consider it, and we are going to work very hard to
get them to do it.
Councilmember Bolkcom said a year ago when they asked that same question, the County
engineer said they did not feel there needed to be one.
Dr. Burns stated he thinks they are starting to believe there is a safety issue.
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to adopt Resolution No. 2009-20. Seconded by
Councilmember Saefke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
10. Consideration of Hotel/Motel License for LivINN Suites, Located at 5201 Central
Avenue N.E. (Ward 1).
Richard Pribyl, Finance Director, stated the current hotel license period for LivINN Suites
expires on April 30. Our license period runs from May 1 to April 30 of each and every year.
LivINN Suites has been licensed at this location since 2003. They have four locations: Fridley,
Maplewood, Burnsville, and Sharonville, Ohio. The Fridley LivINN Suites is 134 rooms on
record renting on a daily or long-term basis. Due to a high number of police calls for service, the
Police Department voiced concerns concerning the renewal of this license last year.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 19
Mr. Pribyl talked about the calls for service history. Calls for service have decreased in
frequency and severity. LivINN Suites management and staff complied with the conditions
placed on their 2008 license renewal by Council and complied with every request made by staff
during this past year. Due to the continuing elevated number of calls for service, staff is
recommending a license renewal with the stipulated provisions as follows:
1. The City expects continued reduction in the number of calls for police service and further
reduction in the seriousness of incidents.
2. LivINN Suites will not accept cash payments for any room rental. All room stays will be
charged to a credit card. Currently, overnight rentals may be paid in cash and backed up
by credit card on file.
3. LivINN Suites will comply with the registration requirements of Minnesota Statute
Chapter 327. Hotel staff will gather all personal identification information on each guest
and provide that in a format that allows Police to check registered guests for wants and
warrants.
4. LivINN Suites will review websites and other media commonly used by prostitutes to
advertise and compare their photos and other features against their current guests.
5. The City expects continued cooperation from LivINN Suites staff.
6. Staff will meet with LivINN staff on a quarterly basis.
7. Staff will provide a report to Council on a quarterly basis based on those meetings.
8. Any significant changes in the operation of the business or in the overall order, peace,
and safety at the location could result in immediate action by the City at that point in
time.
9. Any serious crime may result in immediate license action by the City.
Mr. Pribyl presented a review of the types of calls that occurred in 2007 and 2008. In 2009,
there have been 28 calls for service in the first quarter. We made comparisons between the
Fridley LivINN Suites with 134 rooms with some other hotels, such Holiday Inn Express in
Coon Rapids, the Quality Inn which was actually the Comfort Inn until a couple of weeks ago,
the Hampton Inn in Lino Lakes, the Super 8 in Brooklyn Center, the Comfort Inn in Brooklyn
Center, and the Comfort Inn in Brooklyn Center. Staff is recommending approval of the hotel
license for LivINN Suites with the nine conditions previously identified.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if the increase in the number of civil disputes, public assists
and warrant arrests is because we were more active in that area from 2007 to 2008.
Don Abbott, Public Safety Director, replied that is correct. Both of those categories would be
the results of additional police attention to the property. We estimate, in viewing all of the
reports, that approximately 15 of the total reports occurring last year were the results of police
self-initiated activity.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she remembered reading in one of the recent police reports
something related to prostitution. She asked if that could have been caught before it happened.
Chief Abbott stated that one incident occurred just a matter of weeks ago and was reported by
the hotel staff. They made two arrests.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 20
Tim Welch, Attorney for LivINN Suites, stated they believe the license should be and could be
issued without condition as a legal matter. They also believe that a violation of what they are
calling a condition would not be grounds for revocation of a license. That again is a legal matter.
They fully intend to continue to cooperate with the Police Department as they have in the past
and try to be very responsive. They have concerns about some of the conditions they continue to
have.
Attorney Welch stated, in addition, no one wants prostitutes at LivINN Suites. They have had
LivINN Suites staff go through the internet to try and identify people coming in. He does not
know that they have ever specifically identified somebody. There was a call about the incident
that happened a few weeks ago. They have a lot of concerns about identifying somebody off the
internet and telling them they cannot rent a room. He thinks that even a prostitute has the right to
rent a room. They just do not have a right to engage in prostitution in the room. The biggest
concern they have is that they identify somebody and then they turn around and, because of
misidentification or confusion, etc., proceed against LivINN Suites. They are happy to continue
to cooperate though. The list of ideas the Police Department has brought forward has changed
from time to time. When there are better ideas during the year, we certainly have made those
changes and complied with them. He appreciates the recommendation of Police Department
staff to approve the license, and he requests that they do so.
Mayor Lund stated Mr. Welch mentioned that he did not think the license should be given on
conditions. He asked if Mr. Welch thought the City should forget the nine stipulations and
simply say yes or no.
Attorney Welch replied he thinks the conditions are a good idea, and they are voluntary on their
part. He does believe as a matter of law, they are granted the license. That license within the
City ordinance and Charter has certain requirements, and if they comply with those
requirements, they should be granted a license. He does understand that it does not stop there
because we are in a community and have a relationship with the City and with its residents. We
fully understand there are concerns that we have attended to and will continue to work on with
the Police Department. If Mayor Lund is asking him if he thinks the City has a right to
unilaterally condition a license? He would have to say, no, he does not think they do as a matter
of law.
Mayor Lund stated they are willing to comply to the best of their abilities anyway.
Attorney Welch replied, yes, absolutely.
Mayor Lund asked if Attorney Knaak would like to respond.
Fritz Knaak, City Attorney, replied the City is well within its rights to clearly state its
expectations. If in fact your client is out of compliance with those expectations, your client
surely understands that there are consequences as a result. That would in all likelihood be a
revocation of a license. There would be no justification at that point that your client did not
know that the City had that position with respect to that issue. This in essence puts your client
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 21
on notice exactly what the City's expectations are, and he does not think there is any doubt about
that. Whether they want to call this a conditional license or whether we want to call it a license
with some specific understandings and expectations he does not really think it matters. He thinks
the result is exactly the same. Assuming that there is an understanding about those expectations
and they are fully complied with, he does not think this is an issue. If there is a problem with the
expectations, Attorney Welch's client knows what that means and he thinks the City knows what
that means in terms of what is possibly going to occur at that point. As to legalities as to what
the City can or cannot do at this point, he thinks it is actually unproductive. He thinks everybody
has a pretty clear understanding that one way or another it would have consequences for both
sides.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated we would not have any conditions if we did not have all the
activities that were happening there to begin with. She thinks they did a good job of cleaning up.
Do they still have a ways to go? You bet, but she does think they would never have been here
with these conditions if some of those would have been taken care of without having to put a
plan in place from the start.
MOTION by Councilmember Saefke to approve the Hotel/Motel License for LivINN Suites,
Located at 5201 Central Avenue N.E. with the following nine conditions:
1. The City expects continued reduction in the number of calls for police service and further
reduction in the seriousness of incidents.
2. LivINN Suites will not accept cash payments for any room rental. All room stays will be
charged to a credit card. Currently, overnight rentals may be paid in cash and backed up
by credit card on file.
3. LivINN Suites will comply with the registration requirements of Minnesota Statute
Chapter 327. Hotel staff will gather all personal identification information on each guest
and provide that in a format that allows Police to check registered guests for wants and
warrants.
4. LivINN Suites will review websites and other media commonly used by prostitutes to
advertise and compare their photos and other features against their current guests.
5. The City expects continued cooperation from LivINN Suites staff.
6. Staff will meet with LivINN staff on a quarterly basis.
7. Staff will provide a report to Council on a quarterly basis based on those meetings.
8. Any significant changes in the operation of the business or in the overall order, peace,
and safety at the location could result in immediate action by the City at that point in
time.
9. Any serious crime may result in immediate license action by the City.
Seconded by Councilmember Varichak.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 22
6. Licenses.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated in the presentation it said everyone had met the 40/60 food to
liquor ratio; however, AlVg' Bowling is different. They have a 30/70 ratio.
Richard Pribyl, Finance Director, said they do have a 30/70 requirement as stipulated by the
City Code.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated on the gambling license for Short Stop, it says the police have
no concerns and the gambling issue was resolved satisfactorily. She asked what that meant.
Don Abbott, Public Safety Director, replied that last fall, the Police Department actively began
periodic compliance checks of gaming and gambling just as they have done with alcohol and
tobacco. In the past they did gambling on an as-needed basis upon complaint. The first time
they went out this past fall, our officers went out with the agents of the Minnesota Alcohol and
Gambling Enforcement Division and identified several minor issues related to gaming
throughout the City. Nothing rose to the level of requiring a citation, but the officers used that
opportunity to educate the license holders about the new enforcement and compliance process.,
advised them of what the violation was, and directed them to bring it into compliance. He said
he did not know specifically what that violation was.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked how often it would be done.
Chief Abbott said they will be doing it at least once a year. More likely twice a year if staff
time permits.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated if it was something more than a minor issue, more information
would be presented to Council.
Chief Abbott replied, yes. There would probably be a citation either by the Fridley Police
Department or a citation by the Alcohol and Gambling Enforcement Office which would be
reported to Council.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked about the tobacco license in which an administrative penalty
was paid by the Billiards. Have they failed that before?
Debra Skogen, City Clerk, stated the report is for a 12-month period. In the past when they first
got their liquor license they did have one failure. For 2008, they had one tobacco failure.
Baggan's Pub had a liquor compliance violation during that same 12-month period as well.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if there was anything in our licensing that says if you fail so
many that you are in some type of probation. Do we have anything that would restrict anyone or
not let them get their license?
Mr. Pribyl replied he does not think they have any specific numbers identified in the City Code.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 23
Ms. Skogen stated it is in the administrative portion that if you fail it, the first time you have a
$500 fine. The second time you have a$1,000 fine. The third time, within a 12-month period,
you are brought before Council with a possible suspension or revocation. In the past,
Walgreen's did have their license pulled for a year.
Councilmember Bolkcom said that was for tobacco. She asked if it was the same for liquor.
Ms. Skogen replied yes.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked is if the amount was the same for liquor and for tobacco.
Ms. Skogen replied yes.
Councilmember Bolkcom said the Police Department has no concerns with respect to all of our
establishments except Baggan's.
Chief Abbott replied that is correct. There are no concerns for those establishments. That does
not mean they do not have police calls. There are just no specific concerns that rise above the
level of what they would consider normal business for those licensees.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if we have any concerns with any of these listed here as far as
liquor and food sales?
Mr. Pribyl replied, outside of Baggan's, no.
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to approve 2009-2010 Liquor License Renewals with
the Licenses as presented. Seconded by Councilmember Saefke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
11. Consideration of Intoxicating Liquor License Issued to William J. Bisek of JWBB,
Inc., d/b/a Baggan's Pub, Located at 3720 East River Road (Ward 3).
Richard Pribyl, Finance Director, stated on August 11, 2008, a public hearing was held and
continued to September 15, 2008, regarding a revocation of the liquor license for the applicant.
The license was not revoked but had a number of stipulations that were communicated to Mr.
Bisek in a letter dated September 26, 2008. The stipulations were:
1. To continue to maintain the food-to-liquor ratio;
2. To work with the Police Department to provide a safe environment for the staff and
patrons;
3. To have staff contact the police when requested or needed and not just when staff felt the
police should be called;
4. To have those staff inembers who work in the capacity of management apply for a
managerial dispensing license.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 24
5. To pay the delinquent property taxes that actually owed at the time;
6. To operate the business as the original liquor license stated in that they not allow another
establishment to come in and hold special events on the other side; and
7. To maintain the business according to the City ordinance.
Staff recommends non-renewal of Baggan's Pub license for the following reasons:
1. Recent escalation of police calls and violence occurring on the property as documented in
the police background investigation as part of this item.
2. The operation of the business not being conducted in a manner similar to what was
originally stated. We have gone from a dinner theater back to the situation currently
occurring.
3. Not to allow another establishment or vendor to come in and hold special events.
4. Staff is concerned over what appears to be the operation of revenues not included in the
overall gross sales for food-to-liquor.
The reason for the last statement is in one of the interviews they had with Mr. Bisek, he admitted
that last summer when Zanzibar was there, the operation was most likely not included in his
sales revenue figures for this particular period of time. So that raised some red flags regarding
their gross sales for that period of time. Many of these items are reviewed in greater detail in the
police background investigation as part of this agenda item.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if it would be in order to have Chief Abbott summarize his
memorandum.
Don Abbott, Director of Public Safety, stated the Police Department has noticed a significant
upward movement in the number of and the seriousness of police calls at Baggan's Pub primarily
after the first of the year. They have responded to 18 calls for service since January 1. During
this same time period last year, they had he believed 7 calls for service. If we were to see that
same rate of calls continue throughout the year, we would then experience approximately 72
calls for service for the year. The 32 calls for service last year put them significantly higher than
other liquor licensees in the City when you scaled those establishments based on their gross
revenue.
Chief Abbott stated one of the most concerning issues over the past three months has been three
felony assaults reported. Once again, patrons hitting each other with glass beer bottles. They
will recall that when the prior establishment was there, that was a frequent occurrence which can
result in serious injuries. One young lady did receive a very significant cut to her nose and they
expect some long-term marks, injuries, or scarring. During the weekend of March 21 and 22,
four different episodes of either assault (including two of the felony assaults) and two disorderly
conducts occurred. Two were reported that weekend. The other two came in during the course
of the week.
Chief Abbott stated City staff has met with Mr. Bisek and talked on the phone with him. Mr.
Bisek also brought in one of his managers (he believes his son, Jeremy) and met with the City
Clerk, Captain Rewietzer, and himself to discuss some of these issues. They met with him on
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 25
April 1 and brought up those issues. At that time staff also had the opportunity to ask about the
revenue issue that based on the size and scale of the business the revenue seemed somewhat low.
Staff did ask if the revenue from last summer generated by Zanzibar or Klub Africa was
included. Mr. Bisek replied that either it probably was not or he did not think it was.
Chief Abbott stated beyond just what the numbers show and what is in the memorandum, he has
spoken with our officers and asked them to describe what they are seeing and experiencing at
Baggan's. The responses he received were that it is very similar to what we were experiencing at
Sha� at its worst. He has no reason to doubt that because the police reports are backing that up.
There is an indication of some gang presence; which is specifically mentioned by patrons and
police reports and by our officers on the scene. They are seeing what they believe are members
of motorcycle and street gangs attending events at the club and also appearing to play somewhat
of a role in managing the door, whether they are employees of the club or standing there with
employees of the club and maybe offering advice or guidance to them on who gets in and who
does not. All those things together lead the Police Department to believe they are seeing a return
of the very issues that brought about the demise of the previous establishment, and we absolutely
do not want to see a return to those situations.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked would a manager normally know the names of their
employees. If he has a manager's license is that part of knowing who your employees are and
who your security staff is.
Mr. Pribyl replied, certainly one should know. If you are actually operating as a manager, you
should know who your actual employees are.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked whether they have received all of the W-4's and
identifications. Chief Abbott had asked Mr. Bisek for all the documentation related to
employees including the doormen and security staf£ She knows this had come up before when
Klub Africa was in part of the building and there was question as to who the employees were
working for.
Chief Abbott replied, he had that conversation with Mr. Bisek and explained to him at the time
that the City really has no Code provision or requirement for any employer in the City, including
a liquor license holder, to provide the City with that information. That was merely a follow-up
question that he had. He asked Mr. Bisek if he knew the names of all of his security or door
people. Mr. Bisek said he did not know all of them, but could get the information. He offered to
provide that. He said he would not turn it down, but we cannot require it. Since the writing of
his agenda memorandum, he had another conversation with some of our officers. He asked the
officers to describe who is working and what they are seeing. These officers are very certain that
when the club operation is being run, that the security staff people are not Baggan's employees.
They do not see them on other days of the week One officer even said he had talked to
Baggan's employees who said the security staff on the club side, when Club AO is in operation,
are employees of the entertainment company, not employees of Baggan's.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked Chief Abbot to explain the reference in his memorandum to a
website to a promotion company called Bachelor Boy Entertainment and a Saturday night event
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 26
called "Club AO (Adults Only)" and to explain the copies of web pages from the website he had
included.
Chief Abbott replied those are screen shots off the internet. Page 41 is the top portion of the
events page from Baggan's Pub website just describing events for Monday and Tuesday nights,
Page 42 relates to Wednesday night, Page 43 relates to Thursday night, Page 44 relates to Friday
night, and Page 45 relates to Saturday night. The screen shot on Page 46 is actually linked to a
different website which is the Bachelor Boy Entertainment website advertising an event at
Baggan's Pub on Saturday nights. Near the bottom it does direct people for V.I.P. events and he
believes birthday celebrations to contact Bachelor Boy Entertainment to schedule those.
Councilmember Bolkcom referred to Item No. 6 in the letter dated September 6, 2008, to Mr.
Bisek, stating that he needed to operate his business as the original liquor license stated and not
allow other establishments to come in and hold special events. She asked if we knew whether
this was actually happening.
Chief Abbott replied correct. What we are seeing here, coupled with what the officers are
reporting, leads the Police Department to strongly suspect and almost conclude that there is
substantial involvement in the operation of the club on the north side by Bachelor Boy
Entertainment and their staff.
Scott Harris, attorney for Baggan's Pub, introduced himself and said he was appearing on
behalf of Baggan's.
Mayor Lund asked how long he had been representing Baggan's Pub.
Attorney Harris replied since he received a call last week indicating that there was a hearing
coming up, and the City appeared intent on not renewing the license.
Mayor Lund stated he did not know if they were intent on it, but had been looking at it for quite
some time.
Councilmember Bolkcom said it was not an actual hearing.
Attorney Harris asked if there was a problem with him speaking.
Councilmember Bolkcom said there was not.
Mayor Lund stated he is anxious to hear what Attorney Harris has to say.
Attorney Harris said he did want to state a few things about the legal parameters before talking
about the facts as represented in the agenda items. He had a chance to take a look at the
ordinances regarding renewal of the City license and also some of the laws of the State regarding
renewal. To some extent he thinks there may be a bit of inconsistency between them. The City's
ordinance indicates that the Council would have complete discretion with regard to a renewal
decision. He mentioned Minnesota Supreme Court case, Tamarack Inn from 1981, in which the
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 27
court noted that with regard to liquor license renewal that generally that is a license renewal as a
matter of course and that there is an expectation on the part of someone who invests substantially
in a business to serve alcohol and prepares facilities for operations that they would be entitled to
a reasonable expectation of continuing receipt of the benefit conferred by a license, and the court
stated in the opinion a license would be renewed provided there were not serious violations of
law which had occurred. He said he does not know if Council's views are that standard, but it
appears that is the standard with regard to renewal under the laws of the State of Minnesota.
Attorney Harris said he recently argued a case in which the Court of Appeals had noted in the
March 31, 2009, decision regarding Gabby's bar in Minneapolis that conditioning a license, and
he overheard in the previous agenda that imposing conditions on an existing license, is not
statutorily or by ordinance authorized in the State of Minnesota. He thinks there is a purported
set of conditions from September 2008 if he understands it. He noted in the record reference to
having provided those to Mr. Bisek and to Baggan's. In going down that list, his understanding
is that Ms. Skogen did in one meeting that occurred indicate that her understanding was that
Baggan's had complied with the elements in the letter of September 26, 2008. He just wished to
point out that the Minnesota Court of Appeals has recently said that where there is an existing
liquor license, there are the opportunities to revoke or suspend under State law but there is not an
opportunity for a City to impose in the midst of a liquor license conditions upon it.
Attorney Harris stated he believed that they have had voluntary compliance from Baggan's
with the conditions or understandings that were set forth in September 2008 when this issue
arose about whether another entity was operating on the club side. At least, according to Ms.
Skogen, she thought that all of these conditions have been met. For the record, for their
consideration tonight, they are of the view that two of those have not been met and one, if he
understands it, Council suggested there were conditions in the original license as issued. He has
looked at the original license that was issued and at the minutes surrounding the issuance of the
original license. He is not quite clear what the conditions were that existed in this license
originally that have not been met. As a matter of fact, the minutes of the meeting reflect, and this
was the meeting of the Council on January 8, in which the license was in fact voted and there
was an exchange in which Councilmember Barnette asked if the liquor license is being given to
Baggan's Pub. Mr. Pribyl replied, "Correct." Councilmember Barnette stated "Oops Theater is
going to operate in the other part of the building and will also be selling liquor, correct?" Mr.
Pribyl's replied was, "They will actually have liquor dispensed on that side by Mr. Bisek under
his license." Councilmember Barnette asked, "So the 60/40 ratio will combine both the Pub and
Oops Theater?" Mr. Pribyl's reply, "Correct. That is correct." Councilmember Barnette asked,
"Why the license was just to Baggan's Pub and not Ooops Theater?" Mr. Pribyl replied,
`Baggan's Pub includes the entire perimeter of the building. It is up to Mr. Bisek what activities
he has going on inside, such as entertainment. It is basically similar to an entertainment license."
It was at the conclusion of that exchange that a motion was made for approval. There were
certain conditions, but those conditions articulated are about the license not issuing until Anoka
County Health Department, Fridley Building and Mechanical inspectors and the City Fire
Marshall had given approval, and the State of Minnesota had approved the liquor license.
Attorney Harris stated he understands and he knows Council understands and have
considerable concerns about what happened historically in that building that now houses
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 28
Baggan's. He can assure them that Mr. Bisek shares in those concerns. Mr. Bisek, as they
know, did commence his operations with this Oops Dinner Theater operating on the club side.
Unfortunately, the Oops Theater people went out into bankruptcy and ceased operations. He
proceeded to provide theater presentations on his own after the Oops Theater people closed
down. He has in recent times besides the sports bar on the south side, started contracting in the
club side of his facility. Attorney Harris knows there are questions about whether the Bachelor
Boy Entertainment people are operating there. He has different entertainment on Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. He has a ladies night. He has a blues night. He has
entertainment on Friday night. With different respective entities, he has contracted for
entertainment services. He has not turned over his club to those entities, including the Bachelor
Boy entertainment people. They have Saturday night. He has a contract with them. Under that
contract they have a financial involvement in a percentage of the venue's cover charges. It is not
shocking that Chief Abbott would find advertising for events that are happening over at
Baggan's on their web site, because they have a financial incentive to have people show up there.
This is not an uncommon business model and a number of clubs in the Twin Cities and other
areas for that matter have arrangements. It is not turning over. It is a very different arrangement
than what Mr. Bisek presented Council with back in August and September when he was
contemplating the sale of this club to another entity and they had actually moved in and were
engaged in operations. He is operating the club. He has a financial arrangement, like he said, on
Saturday night with an entity, a different one on Friday night and Thursday night.
Attorney Harris stated he would like to at least address these comments. From the minutes,
Chief Abbott presented this question and the councilwoman asked the question about the identity
of people working there. There was an exchange and he is not sure from their point of view,
how significant our difference of understanding is. Jeremy did indicate that he knew, not street
names, but nicknames of the people who are employed there and did not know formally the first
names of several of the people and said he would be happy to provide that information. He
knows them by names other than when they first became employees and their formal names were
entered in the system. They do not all go by those names.
Attorney Harris replied they vigorously contend that there is not a"gang presence" known to
them of anybody working at the place. The club has made a very serious effort to make sure that
if there is going to be any influx of improper people, that it be vigorously addressed. He thinks it
is reflected in Chief Abbott's report they have in front of them, that as of the end of the year and
beginning of this year, 2009, there was both an increase of people coming to Baggan's and there
was an increase in trouble at Baggan's. In fact virtually all of them have been happening on the
sports bar side of it as opposed to the Club's side where much of Chief Abbott's report focuses.
There was a substantial fight in March reported by the Chief and it was with an eye towards that
concern on the part of Baggan's that Baggan's contacted Chief Abbott.
Attorney Harris stated in the letter dated September 2008, the City's view was to work with the
police more significantly. That was one of the directions that Baggan's has voluntarily adhered
to throughout this time. They contacted the Chief and, as a matter of fact, one of the first issues
they raised was, we are concerned that we are having trouble arising here, that we are getting
some of the wrong people coming in here and we would like to know whether we can hire off-
duty officers to make a show of force. In that way discourage there being any such trouble
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 29
arising in this space. We are aware of what happened historically here. We do not want it to
happen in our place. We are anxious to do things about it. He understands from talking again to
Chief Abbott today that Baggan's was told at that time that they do not have off-duty officers
working at or around restaurants, bars, or clubs in Fridley. We do not have that as a policy in the
City. So that is not available to you. Mr. Bisek also asked if they could hire off-duty officers
from other cities, and Chief Abbott indicated he thought there was a concern about jurisdiction.
Attorney Harris stated in March, Baggan's contracted with two Wolf Security Agency officers
on these nights and a marked squad is in front of the place on all the nights when they have
entertainment. They have increased their security staff those nights. When Chief Abbott
indicated there is an understanding that there are people working security on certain nights, such
as Saturday nights, who are not there all on the other nights of the week, that is absolutely true.
There has been a beef-up of security people on the nights of entertainment, Wednesday through
Saturday. That beef-up has been up to 50 percent. In addition to the Wolf Security people, there
are now up to 12 other security people, both at the door and moving within the premises on these
nights.
Attorney Harris stated in addition to that, Baggan's has started to wand and pat down
everybody coming into the club so as to make sure there are not going to be any incidents there.
All the additional elements there now, were put in place since early in the year when they noticed
this change in the trend of people coming in. They are not going to say, we are closing our doors
to certain broad groups within society. What they can do, and what he believes their obligations
are, as an establishment in Fridley, is to try to make sure that they are minimizing any problems,
safeguarding their patrons, safeguarding their staff and, if somebody causes trouble, getting them
out, effectively handling the very issue at hand and not letting them ever come in again. So they
are wanding and patting down anybody before they get in. They have eliminated this issue of
glass bottles. There are no glass bottles being sold at Baggan's.
Attorney Harris stated they have, in addition, made arrangements now, there is a computerized
system that other bars have used that have had incidents where, if there are any problems on the
premises, it is called the "eye detect" which is a trade name, where you can put into the computer
the names of every single person basically who have ever caused a problem. When you come
into the place, you have to show a picture ID and if it matches up with a name on the list, you
cannot come in and you are barred for life. As he indicated this issue has just arisen in their
dialogue with Chief Abbott about alleged gang involvement.
Attorney Harris stated earlier one of the principals of Bachelor Boy Entertainment was present.
His name is Israel Moses. He is actually a presenter of entertainment at Baggan's on Saturday
nights. He is an assistant principal at a public school. He had to leave. He had a new infant that
was born and had to get back to his house. Mr. Moses is quite eager to establish the record
regarding the relationship between Bachelor Boy Entertainment and Baggan's. Mr. Harris said it
is a contractual relationship. They get a portion of the door proceeds. It is not surprising they
would seek to maximize those proceeds by advertising. In addition, on those nights, there are
additional security people on the scene. He said they have worked with the Police Department
and have made every attempt to work with the Police Department. When the issue was raised by
Chief Abbott about gang people being involved perhaps on the security front, his client's
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 30
position was, we did not know of it, we have investigated it, and if you will identify to us who
those people are, we will take action to address it. That has not quite happened yet, but Attorney
Harris understands from Chief Abbott from their telephone conversation that he at least knows
the nickname or street name of somebody who he believes may have an affiliation. He said if
there is a problem, if there somebody involved in the security side of it who has some
connections, it is the last thing the club wants. The club does not want the history that has been
at that facility. The club is making these efforts to ensure that it does not happen.
Attorney Harris stated the conditions from September 2008 were such that its obligations were
to voluntarily comply with them. It is of their view that they have met those. There is nobody
controlling this club. It is being done by ownership and management pure and simple. If there is
a suspicion on the part of Chief Abbott or others within the police force, if there are people who
have a gang connection, tell them who they are. That would be the simplest and fastest way for
the club to make sure that is not happening.
Attorney Harris stated he is not entirely clear on the issue with regard to the revenues. There is
no doubt the City expressed concerns about what was happening in August and whether in fact
someone else was operating. Attorney Harris believes Mr. Bisek was forthcoming at the time
about his arrangements with what was then the punitive owner, the new owner of the club, he
was intending to sell to. Since that point in time, he does not believe there has been an issue
about whether they are complying with the 40 percent food sale requirement. Attorney Harris
believes Ms. Skogen's indication was all of those concerns were addressed since September.
The issue that he thinks they have before them now is in this window of time, since the club has
recognized that there has been an increase in troublemakers, has the club done the appropriate
things to address that concern. He is sure this City is extremely concerned about this locale. All
he can tell them is Mr. Bisek is here to tell them, should they care to listen to him on that, he
shares that concern. Mr. Bisek does not know of anything in their license. Attorney Harris has
looked at their license and the minutes around it that say you have to have a dinner theater here
or you cannot operate. As attorney Harris read from the minutes, the understanding was, the
entertainment was of his choice. He would prefer that, had Oops not gone out of business and
had it been successful, that be the way the club survived and made money. However, Mr.
Bisek's first and foremost goal in his business life is to survive and make money. He thinks he
has right now an agenda on four nights of the week where he is bringing in people. He is
presenting suitable security to address concerns as they have arisen and as they have been
identified. He wants to work with the Police Chie£ If the police will identify anybody they
know who are troublemakers, he will address this.
Attorney Harris said they are seeking an opportunity for Mr. Bisek to keep operating under a
license. He understood that since January and late March, there were several episodes. The last
one happened April 2 and Wolf Security handled it. He thinks when the police arrived there
were no arrests and there was nothing that was not under control, unless Chief Abbott has a
different understanding. This is what was reported to them. If Council is inclined to say that do
not want to renew, they would ask that before they make any final determination, they do afford
an opportunity to make an evidentiary record on this.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 31
Attorney Harris stated he talked to Attorney Knaak about whether they might be able to have a
hearing before an administrative law judge. That is what happened in the City of Minneapolis,
and what commonly happens before there is an adverse license action. We would ask that they
let them make the record. All they have heard is his basic argument. They believe they can
establish all of this by record. If they are inclined to non-renew and not afford an opportunity for
a record, then he would ask that they stay the non-renewal so that there be an opportunity to take
that before a court that could suitably determine whether the basis exists for non-renewal, and
whether there has been a serious breach of the law under the standards in Minnesota that would
give rise to a non-renewal.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated Attorney Harris mentioned some minutes and none of them
have those in front of them. She wants to go back to a meeting before that because we have a
public hearing before approving an intoxicating liquor license. There was a lot of discussion
related to an establishment that is going to serve intoxicating beverages. It was an unusual
circumstance where they would have another entity on part of their establishment, putting on a
theater, but the food and everything being prepared and related to the food/liquor sales. She
asked Mr. Pribyl if he would just refresh their memories about that.
Mr. Pribyl stated the proposed dinner theater was going to work in conjunction with Mr. Bisek's
sports bar on the other side. From the very start, there was going to be food served on the theater
side and that was going to be prepared in his kitchen. Actually at the time that it first opened, as
he recalled, the food was actually coming from another restaurant until they could actually get
their kitchen up to the standard that they needed it to and actually produce and provide the food
for the dinner theater side. From the very start, the proposal was to serve food in conjunction
with the theater operation and liquor sales in conjunction with that whole venue of dinner theater.
From the very start, there was an expectation of food sales on what has now become a club side.
It was a dinner theater serving food and with the liquor sales to go along with that food.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if there was a restaurant serving alcohol and then having
another side that is a different entity, and if in any way that changes which we have seen it
change at least once but twice now with the Klub Africa and Zanzibar and now with numerous
other contractual companies coming in, does that in any way change that liquor license and make
it different than what it was originally. It that grounds enough in itself to be reviewed.
Fritz Knaak, City Attorney, replied if Councilmember Billings were here to recite the history of
the liquor ordinance, this would probably be the time for that sermon which is basically the City
of Fridley basically has no bars. It has no clubs. It has eating establishments with liquor licenses
and that is the purpose for the ratio that is in the ordinance. An exception to that, it is authorized
by statute of course, are bowling alleys where the revenue he guessed from the bowling is
allowed to supplement the liquor license. What is unusual here, is he recalls the struggle that
was going on with Sha�. It was becoming something more than a bar and it was having some
problems, among other things, with meeting its food requirement. The whole concept behind the
dinner theater was to provide some assistance in that regard. That has been the nature of the
struggle in addition to the related public safety issues. Attorney Harris is correct in that there is a
long history there which leads it to a high scrutiny. The bottom line here is the fact that it is
being defended as a club which is not helpful to Attorney Harris' client. The issue here from the
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 32
City's point of view, historically, has always been restaurants with licenses. The fact that this
seems to be evolving in a different direction is probably part of the reason for perhaps the public
safety issues and other problems raised which are legitimate. In terms of renew or non-renew, he
wants them to understand that that is the underlying philosophy of the way this Code has been
consistently enforced. That has been the problem there. It does not seem to be operating as a
restaurant.
Attorney Harris stated in reading the ordinances, he understands that the restaurant
requirements are defined on a numeric basis. He does not understand from the record that was
presented for purposes of tonight's agenda that that is at the center of this issue of non-renewal.
Attorney Knaak replied there are a couple of others that are related. For one thing, the public
safety issue that he thinks Attorney Harris can see has been the focus of a lot of this. However,
some of the questions that have been raised would be useful since Attorney Harris is coming into
this relatively recently. Actually there was a public hearing, it was back in September with
respect to this license.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated August.
Attorney Knaak stated there was a fair amount of discussion and a lot of latitude was given
towards Attorney Harris' client. He thinks historically, this City tries to be very flexible in trying
to deal with its licensees. One of the issues that comes up in these circumstances is the City has
the authority to regulate the managers, do background checks on managers, to ascertain whether
these people will operate a legal establishment and the like, and part of that is these individuals
must indeed be the ones running the establishment. When there are repeated concerns about
individuals working in an establishment that are not actual owners of the establishment or
employees of the establishment, that raises an issue and that has been an ongoing problem at this
location both with this owner and a previous owner. These are issues that came up during the
previous hearing. There are no shell licenses in Fridley. The owner is to be the one who has to
be running the operation in all respects. If in fact there is revenue coming from the other side
from the other operation, that should be reflected actually in the numbers that are being reported
to the City. The concern here was that by admission of the owner, they were not. That is a
significant issue in dealing with a licensee.
Attorney Harris stated attorney Knaak is referring to pre-September issues.
Attorney Knaak replied if there were discussions then with Mr. Bisek, those are issues that get
raised that are of some significance and relevance to the regulation by the City. If you are
raising some additional issues and points that would have been relevant for Attorney Harris'
client to have raised with the Police Department.
Attorney Harris said he did not know what he meant.
Attorney Knaak replied, he is talking about Wolf Security and being in control.
Chief Abbott stated those were part of their discussion.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 33
Attorney Harris said he is not suggesting that he is raising them for the first time. With all due
respect to Chief Abbott, he is not suggesting he intended to omit things, but some of the stuff
came up and it is not in what Council has before them.
Attorney Knaak said he needs to understand there are no club licenses.
Attorney Harris stated, forgive him if he spoke inappropriately in his description. On his way
tonight, he stopped and had dinner in a place in Fridley, and it had the word "sports bar" in front
of it. He is sure their view of it is they are complying with the requirements that they are a
restaurant because they are making sufficient sales of their food to qualify as a restaurant. Just as
Baggan's is.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated on the night of August 11, there was a fair amount of trouble
there. She thought there was 20+ squad cars down there. There was somebody managing who
did not have a manager's license. These issues are ongoing concerns. It is her understanding
that Jeremy Bisek has applied for a manager's license. Her question is related to security and
managers who are running the club side. There was another club and they had their own
employees who were not employed by Baggan's Pub. Maybe it is different when it is
contractual, but they were basically running that side of the business. One of the big issues was
related to managers and having someone on board who manages the place and making sure
people who come in can drink and are of age, and when things escalate, they do not just try and
take of it themselves. So now, just because they have hired security, when she hears a comment
that the security department took care of it themselves back on April 2 she would be concerned.
That is one of their issues is related to not letting the problems escalate, call us. Some of her
concerns are the very same concerns they had last August and September and they are really not
being addressed. Attorney Knaak has always told Council we have a lot more latitude because
we do having eating establishments that can serve liquor if they have a liquor license.
Attorney Knaak replied, well, we can talk about it much the same way we did before. It is a
benefit to the licensee whether the licensee wants to believe it or not to know exactly where the
City is coming from whenever it imposes a condition, especially if it is conditioned for continued
operation after there has been a revocation hearing. As a means of getting back into compliance,
licensees are, in our experience, fairly willing to comply with the necessary conditions. The
other option would be to simply deny it or in the context of revocation, revoke it. They are
entitled to consider the public safety aspects of the concerns that are being raised. They have to
decide whether it has been sufficient or not. If they believe there are other options that they want
to see advanced, they can certainly require that they be followed by the licensee as continuation
as long as they are not oppressive and as long as they are substantially for the purpose of
advancing a public safety purpose.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated to Attorney Harris mentioned that there are these contractual
agreements with other companies and that they get a part of the proceeds. When all these other
activities are being held on the club side of the establishment, is there food being offered on that
side?
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 34
Attorney Harris replied, yes, and there is a Baggan's licensed manager at all times.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked so all the people serving drinks and serving food are
employees of Baggan's Pub?
Attorney Harris said he believed so but would check on it.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she understands from him that the contractual agreement is to
run the things like the karaoke and the meat raffles and some of the other things that are
contractual. Also there are is the actual serving of liquor and making sure people are of age. All
employees are staff because, again, that was something when Mr. Bisek even agrees that was not
happening in the past and that is why it was before Council in the public hearing back in August.
She asked Attorney Harris if he was willing to say that the food and liquor ratios that are
purported in the actual gross sales are accurate and that an accountant would say they are
accurate.
Attorney Harris replied, that is his understanding. He asked if she meant the obligation on the
40/60 requirement for restaurants?
Councilmember Bolkcom stated, yes.
Attorney Harris replied yes.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if the gross sales that were reported to our City Clerk are
accurate.
Attorney Harris replied he does not know all of the data that has been reported.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated so that is something we need to ask Mr. Bisek.
Attorney Harris replied, yes, he does not know what they have on record at this point. He
would want to point out a couple of things with regard to her comments. The relationship with
Oops Production Company was a contractual relationship. They were going to present
entertainment. Analogous to what is the situation is now, although it is not all dinner theater
entertainment. There is live entertainment, disc jockey entertainment, and the like. With regard
to the security company that has come in, he was simply trying to point out to them that, since
that has been the case, there have not been assaults. The City has said, call the police, and he
believes the facility is trying to do so. There is a bit of an irony in saying, well, we are going too
many police calls from this facility and is one of the basis for thinking they should not be
renewed. However, when an incident arose on Apri12, the private security company addressed it
fully. The police were called and there was no problem. No one was assaulted, no arrests were
made. It had been handled properly by the private security company.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked when they started.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 35
Attorney Harris replied he believed the contract was dated March 27, after the big problem that
arose March 22. At that point in time, Baggan's contacted Chief Abbott and said we think we
have a problem here and we would like some help from the Police Department. He believes they
were complying with what the City had in mind.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she is a little concerned that his client, knowing he was here in
August and September, and talked about the stipulations we had. One was to operate this
business as the original liquor license stated and not allow another establishment to come in and
hold special events. It seems like they are holding special events. She thought Mr. Bisek should
have called staff to discuss it. They did have stipulations in September that he was supposed to
follow. It seems to her that he is not following their advice by contracting different companies to
come in and hold special events.
Attorney Harris said he is trying to understand the position of Council in general on this. He
read that letter from Mr. Pribyl, and it sort of begged the question, what were the conditions of
the original license. He does not take issue. It is just as he said, fresh from arguing these matters
before the Court of Appeals, had there been a condition in the original license that said if you
want to get your license, you only can have a license if throughout the time you have a dinner
theater and only a dinner theater operating. He thinks they would be talking about a different
state of facts than is the case here. He understands that it was Mr. Bisek's intention, when he
came to the City seeking a license, that he would have a dinner theater as his form of
entertainment and that is what he implemented until that dinner theater unfortunately went under.
When he looked to see if the license had a condition that only be a dinner theater, he did not see
it. On the contrary, the minutes said Oops Theater is covered because that is the entertainment
that he is now going to have and whatever entertainment that he has, that is up to him. He has to
comply with his license.
Councilmember Barnette stated the current groups that are in on Wednesday through Saturday
nights, are, in a sense, contracted, not employees.
Attorney Harris replied, the groups who are providing the entertainment.
Councilmember Barnette said the waitresses and food servers are all employees.
Attorney Harris replied, yes.
Councilmember Barnette asked if Wolf Security was employed by Mr. Bisek or by the
contractor?
Attorney Harris replied, by Mr. Bisek They are not employees of Baggan's. They are
contracted.
Councilmember Barnette asked, on the nights they have the entertainment, the question he has
on this 40/60 food ratio and he has it before, is there a normal menu out there for these events
where people are having a hamburger with their drinks and that type of thing or is it mostly
drinks.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 36
Attorney Harris replied, Mr. Bisek should speak to that. His questions to him are is he meeting
his obligations, is he making 40 percent sales of food.
Councilmember Barnette asked, and all of that work and all of that 40/60 is combined with all
the other operations of the club.
Attorney Harris replied, yes. And the sports bar of course.
Chief Abbott stated, just to correct or provide our response to one issue, the report that was
referred to on April 2, which we actually show in the very early morning hours of April 3 at
about 2:11 in the morning, the Wolf Security officers had he believed used mace and a taser on a
disorderly individual. We were not called to that. Our officers had been giving extra patrol at
this location and came across that. Our officer reported that there were approximately 50-100
people standing in the area, out of control, and called for extra squads for crowd control. He
knows at least Columbia Heights and Fridley police responded that evening. We did know that
Wolf Security was coming in. We were called and advised of that and had been informed of the
intent to switch from glass to plastic beer bottles. At the time we were advised that it was our
intent to do it. It had not actually been done yet. There has been that type of contact both in
person and by phone with Mr. Bisek and with his son as well. Approximately 25 percent of our
calls for service have come from Baggan's staff, and the others are coming from patrons or
persons calling us typically on a cell phone to report the incidents themselves.
Mayor Lund stated he does not want to see the businesses closed, and we do not need any other
vacant business in Fridley. Attorney Harris made comments about Wolf Security. He made
several significant points about the amount and the scope of security. He even talked about they
do not allow glass bottles anymore. We have officers who are familiar with street gang
members. However, the culmination of many statements that Attorney Harris has made, we
would not be having this issue if it was not attracting that type of clientele. Maybe the events or
the venue needs to change or should have changed. That is what he wanted to see during this last
six-month period of time. He personally got a call from a member of Oops Theater right away
when we gave this license up. Oops Theater told him that the deal with Mr. Bisek was utterly a
sham and he was a terrible person to do business with. The whole business motto blew up
immediately, and they should have made it an issue way back then. Clearly the whole story is
not being told. There was a comment from one of the police officers that this is at the worst
what Sha� was. Again he goes back to glass bottles. They cannot even use them. What kind of
a place is this? Would you and your wife want to go and frequent this place at 10 or 11 o'clock
at night? He does not think they are running a clean operation regarding a lot of discussions
under the 60/40. True we have restaurants that serve alcohol. This is not quite hitting that scope
of things. Regardless of every establishment just about here in Fridley says "bar and grill" on it.
He does not feel comfortable with the 60/40 ratios.
Mayor Lund stated that he does not think Baggan's is including the events that are going on
over there necessarily. There has been quite a lot of discussion a number of times on who is
really running the operation? We would not be talking about this tonight if this was a much
cleaner and clearer operation.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 37
Mayor Lund said Attorney Harris is suggesting that there is not legal premise for having
conditions on the license. If he is left with one choice, he clearly he would say no. He does not
like to see businesses close. On the other hand, having said that, he does not want businesses
that continue to project a poor image of this community. It is not something he thinks we should
be proud of, and he does not think Mr. Bisek should be proud o£ If he had his choice he is going
to say at the very least, he would recommend denial of this license. He thinks they have had
ample opportunity.
Attorney Knaak stated Council has a number of actions. That is one. Another is to gather more
information, hear what Mr. Bisek has to say and see if the Police Department can garner more
information and make a decision. One of the things they may want to consider if in fact they are
not comfortable with the information they are getting is to allow the Police Department a little
more time to gather more information.
Mayor Lund stated what he is saying is that if we were so inclined, rather than saying no, we
might give them a conditional use for another three months or something.
Attorney Knaak said that is another option. They could also approve it and set it up for a
review in a couple of months. Attorney Harris and his client are making some factual
representations about things they have done that are not apparently evident to City staff or to the
Police Department. If in fact they are true, it might be information Council wants to consider
before it decides.
Mayor Lund asked if they have a way of checking within the parameters of the law. They want
to make sure they are being factual about who is running the place. That was clearly an issue
months ago, and he does not know that he has gotten a clear understanding. They are still
dancing around the issue about who is actually running the club side. There is nothing wrong if
they hire an entertainment company to come in with a venue of sorts, whether it be a karaoke
person one night and a jazz outfit another night and maybe charge admissions. Then he would
think that both parties in that case might want to have somebody there collecting the fees so they
are each getting a count. He does not feel comfortable with the arrangement he is hearing about.
Attorney Knaak stated one of the things he thinks was unusual when Mr. Bisek came in before
was the fact that there was a fairly creative concept being advanced here. There is an
entertainment entity that was an attractive feature to bring people into the establishment. He
thinks Mr. Bisek at the time was being very transparent. His recollection was at some point in
that process, he actually reviewed a lease that was part of his proposal to the City. There was a
great deal of detail provided to the City. He thinks if he is reading between the lines right, part
of the problem that is going on here now is there is absolutely none of that. So there is no
understanding about what is going on in this club. The contract is unknown to the City in terms
of what kind of contract it is, who the employees are, and whether the arrangement in some
manner does violate the City's manager requirements. You indicated and made representation
that there is a licensed manager inside the club side of the facility. That would have to certainly
be confirmed. The City would need additional information with respect to that, in addition to
dealing with and addressing this apparent surge according to the Police Department in public
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 38
safety issues that are occurring there now. Is it related strictly to volume or is it management?
Does that have something to do with the relationship with the contract holders? Right now, there
is a lack information about these relationships that are pretty fundamental in terms of what the
City's comfort level is and whether they are going to continue to renew this license.
William Burns, City Manager, stated we have been this route at least one other time with this
owner, and he thinks it is more than that. He asked what discretion or authority the City Council
had to deny the renewal of a liquor license. We have heard Attorney Harris virtually say we do
not have much authority at all. What is our ability to revoke?
Attorney Knaak replied you have to use this term very carefully because it is not a revocation.
Technically it is an annual license that has to be renewed, and the applicant has to come in and
make an application and essentially make their case. Attorney Harris is correct that in something
like this, normally there is an expectation that is created in the industry that these are generally
renewed. However, nevertheless, the City has substantial discretion based on such things as
public safety and as to the character of the licensee. For example, if the license holder in the
course of the past year committed a felony, that would be a basis for a decision not to renew the
individual. The non-existence of a felony on somebody's record is one of the things you
consider when determining whether someone should have a license. There are a number of
things you can do, including public safety. If there is a major concern that this particular owner,
for example, has not shown a willingness to deal with public safety issues as a licensee and that
this particular owner has been unwilling to deal with the normal rules and regulations the City
asked for the person to follow. Those are all reasons for not wanting to renew a license as
opposed to revoking it.
Dr. Burns asked Attorney Knaak, based on what he has seen so far, has staff brought sufficient
evidence to provide non-renewal of this license or is the Council advised to give the ownership
of this place additional time to demonstrate that they could possibly clean up their act.
Attorney Knaak replied from what he has seen so far, he thinks staff has presented some
evidence that would justify non-renewal. He thinks it is the best advice, under the
circumstances, however, to allow Council some additional time. He would recommend
continuing it.
Dr. Burns stated, continuing the consideration of the license.
Attorney Knaak stated allow consideration of the license. Give the owner more opportunity to
communicate some of the points that were raised tonight and allow the Police Department to
continue its investigation. If the Police Department has that investigation and staff has that
investigation, their opinion does not change or provide some clarification, it gives them even
more reason not to recommend renewal.
Dr. Burns asked would a reasonable time for continuing the license be three months.
Attorney Knaak replied continuing the hearing for one additional Council meeting to allow the
exchange of information would be the best idea. It would be his suggestion that at that time, if
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 39
they are prepared to go forward beyond that, they could either grant or not grant the license. If
they do grant the license, they should do it with an immediate date for a review. He would
suggest two or three months out and take a good hard look and see whether you have
compliance. At this point it just seems to him there is enough additional information that needs
to be gathered and an additional two weeks is a good idea.
William Bisek, 3720 East River Road, stated what they do on Wednesday through Saturday
nights is no different than any other restaurant in town. Whether you are doing live music, DJ
music, entertainment, up and down University Avenue, they hire a promoter and they hire a
manager to bring entertainment in. There is a contractual obligation that they have to do that.
That is the exact same thing we do on the north side of the building. On Wednesday nights we
do a blues and a barbeque night. The other nights of the week they have extended their kitchen
hours until 2 a.m. and have regular menu items available until 12 a.m. They have a late-night
menu that is available until2 a.m.
Mr. Bisek stated, as far as his numbers go, when Zanzibar was operating Baggan's Pub, they
were under control. Payroll was underneath them, all the sales were underneath them including
the sales tax. In fact he still has bill collectors trying to come after him to collect bills that they
are responsible for. So there was a little more than a three-month period of time where all those
numbers were under Zanzibar.
Deb Skogen, City Clerk, stated she wanted to remind the City Council that the City, because it
operates municipal liquor operations, can only license restaurants and hotels. We cannot license
a bar or a club so that is why we do license restaurants. As far as the letter where Attorney
Harris said she mentioned they had met all their stipulations, she was talking about Number 5
regarding their tax delinquency being paid. She was not talking about all the stipulations in the
memorandum. She just wanted to clarify that.
Mayor Lund stated he did see in the attachments that she did specifically say Item 5.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked Mr. Pribyl if it was part of our liquor license that the sales and
food ratios have to be certified by an accountant.
Mr. Pribyl replied yes it is.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she would like to ask staff if they know what kind of
information they would like. She would like to have certification by the accountant on those
food to liquor ratios. She thinks there is a fair amount of things related to public safety that
Chief Abbott can go back and discuss with his staff and do some more investigation. Also, they
have been presented one side related to the security business and what happened on April 2 or
Apri13, bring that information to Council also.
Mr. Pribyl asked Councilmember Bolkcom to actually clarify that. What the CPA's actually do
is they attest to the numbers that were provided to them as far as ratio. It is not a certified audit
of any sort. It is just actually attesting to the numbers that were provided to them.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 40
Dr. Burns asked if they have done that.
Mr. Pribyl replied they have done that.
Attorney Knaak said part of the problem is the business you have right now and are considering
non-renewal of is substantially different in appearance than the business that was the subject of
the revocation hearing last September. He would recommend that what Council needs to do and
what the applicant needs to do is to establish a relationship with some of the City's staff and
make it clear what the business motto and the ways by which the City can review that model and
make sure that its ordinances are being followed. In addition, he would suggest some kind of
dialog on the part of the applicant with Public Safety that would address the spike in violent
episodes and incidents at there. Those are not simple things but pretty clearly definable things
that will hopefully will establish some kind of dialogue between staff and the applicant in a way
that these questions can get taken care of.
Dr. Burns stated just to make sure he understands, he wanted to read back to attorney Knaak
what he just said. He wants staff to communicate with the ownership and establish what the
business model is for Baggan's Pub. That is No.l. For No. 2 he wants staff to deal with the
ownership to determine what can be done to create operational transparency. No. 3, he wants
them to work with the applicant regarding dealing with the number of violent incidents that
occur at that place.
Attorney Knaak replied, that would be correct. The only thing he would change is the emphasis
on that it would be staff. It really would be better if the initiation of this came from the
applicant, so that it does not appear to be something that staff is imposing on him. This is
something the applicant in fact needs to do. The applicant needs to satisfy the City, and the City
he presumes would be receptive to dialog.
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to table consideration of the Intoxicating Liquor License
isssued to William J. Bisek of JWBB, Inc., d/b/a Baggan's Pub, Located at 3720 East River Road
until April 27, 2008, in order for staff to provide more information and to also investigate some
of the information that was presented to them by Attorney Harris, representing Baggan's Pub.
Seconded by Councilmember Varichak.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
11A. City Council Meeting Minutes of March 23, 2009.
Councilmember Bolkcom referred to paragraph 5, page 6, "Mr. Liepke said he was naive in
how much time things take but the decision was already made by Mr. Kirk ...." She indicated
that Mr. Liepke said that part of the reason he never got together with Mr. Kirk was he thought
the decision had already been made but, if you read this, it says that the decision was already
made. She said the word "thought" should be added after the word "but" in that sentence.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 41
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to approve the minutes of the City Council meeting of
March 23 with that correction. Seconded by Councilmember Barnette.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
1. Receive Bids and Award Contract for the 2009 Street Improvement Project No. ST.
2009-1.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated on page 1, in the second paragraph, design adjustments were
made to allow the use of recycled asphalt pavement in a MnDOT asphalt pavement design. She
asked if there was a proven track record.
Jim Kosluchar, Public Works Director, replied, yes. There is an allowable use of recycled
asphalt pavement in MnDOT specifications, but we have been hesitant to include that. This year
with the project that we have, we established our own comfort level with a certain limited
percentage of recycled asphalt pavement.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if staff had established that comfort level.
Mr. Kosluchar said they checked with other communities. They also knew what was available
on the job site as far as the existing pavement.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated, at the public hearing they talked 1'/z inches vs. 2 inches of
surface. She asked what they decided to do.
Mr. Kosluchar replied, the project is bid with 1'/z inches in Sylvan Hills. They have actually
been looking at what the cost modification would be because we have a 2-inch mill and overlay
item for University. Engineering was looking at that item and trying to determine if there should
be a little thicker course of pavement in Sylvan Hills and how that would impact the budget.
Councilmember Barnette asked so they are awarding the bid for 1'/z?
Mr. Kosluchar replied, yes. Staff would like to take a little more time to analyze it. They
opened bids last Thursday. If there is a little bit more room, they may recommend bumping that
up to a 1 3/4 inches or 2 inches.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked what have they done in the past?
Mr. Kosluchar replied, typically we have not done a mill and overlay on a local street that he is
familiar with. The street is established with 1'/z inches varying up to 2'/z inches. That is the
range in that neighborhood. As far as what the City has done in the past, on our reconstructs we
have always done 3-inch course of pavement. However, these are on heavier traffic roads
typically.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked but on any other residential street?
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 42
Mr. Kosluchar replied, it varies from 2 to 3.
William Burns, City Manager, asked what was done on Gardena?
Mr. Kosluchar replied Gardena is kind of a special case. He does not recall if it was 1'/z inch or
2 inch mill and overlay, but there was a substantial pavement course underneath that.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated a resident said if they are going to have to pay for it, why not
do 2 inches instead of 1'/z inches. She asked Mr. Kosluchar if he was saying they really do not
know yet what we are going to do.
Mr. Kosluchar replied, what he is saying is they are comfortable with 1'/z inches but they
would like to do some more analysis and look at 2 inches. The prices came in fairly good for the
project. The price dictates and obviously residents would like to have thicker pavement but also
there is a cost associated with that, both directly and in the form of assessment and/or the City
sharing some of the cost.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked what the difference in cost would be if they went 2 inches.
Mr. Kosluchar replied, basically it is a third if you take that '/z inch and add it to make the
2-inch course. There is a little bit of a discount from $51 a ton to $48 a ton. Essentially it is 30-
33 percent.
Councilmember Bolkcom said they are awarding a contract that would be at 1'/z inches and he
feels comfortable that it will hold up.
Mr. Kosluchar replied they want to look at it a little more because they did get some good
pricing. One of the things they have to be considerate of is the project budget in relationship to
the assessments.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated yes and no. If she was in that neighborhood and if the cost
was going to be slightly increased but he told her that she would have a better street and it was
going to last longer, she might be willing to go with the extra half inch.
Dr. Burns asked if he was talking about 1'/z inches in Sylvan and 2 inches on University?
Mr. Kosluchar replied, that is correct.
Councilmember Barnette stated the estimate for this project was about $125,000 under his
estimate. He asked whether he is saying that would give us a little leeway.
Mr. Kosluchar replied there is a little bit of flexibility. They would like to have a little bit of
time to analyze it after receiving the pricing.
Councilmember Barnette asked what the difference would be if they went with 2 inches.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 43
Mr. Kosluchar replied, 30 percent more.
Mayor Lund stated but that is only for that one material. It does not mean the whole project
goes up by 30 percent.
Councilmember Barnette stated he agrees with Councilmember Bolkcom. If you are going to
do it, let's do a nice job there.
Dr. Burns suggested letting them come back with an analysis of what it would cost the residents
if they were to go to 2 inches.
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to receive bids and award contract for the 2009 Street
Improvement, Project No. ST. 2009-01 to Hardrives, Inc., of Rogers, Minnesota, in the amount
of $665,302.83. Seconded by Councilmember Saefke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
2. Receive Bids and Award Contract for the 2009 Watermain Rehabilitation Project
No. 386.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked Mr. Kosluchar if he can explain the difference between
horizontal directional drilling as a method of construction over pipe bursting.
Jim Kosluchar, Public Works Director, said these are two types of trenchless technologies.
With horizontal directional drilling, basically they put a boring machine and it will pull pipe
through just the virgin soil. With pipe bursting you are pulling a pipe through another pipe
essentially. It has a ramming head in it and will pull sections of pipe through an existing pipe.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked if it broke the old pipe.
Mr. Kosluchar replied, yes, it breaks the old pipe.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated so we are going to allow the contractor to decide which option
is the best way.
Mr. Kosluchar replied we allowed both methods of bidding for the project and we are
recommending award to the least expensive, lowest cost option which is a horizontal direction
drill. The reason that horizontal directional drill is probably preferred here is because the
watermain is on the west side of the roadway which frees up room on the east side of the
roadway for them to have an area to place the directional drill.
Councilmember Bolkcom asked why the water main work was separated from the mill and
overlay proj ect.
FRIDLEY CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009 PAGE 44
Mr. Kosluchar stated they originally looked at open cut construction and their estimate was
very close to $400,000. Then they look at the possibility of savings and talked with a couple of
contractors. They decided to separate it from the mill and overlay proj ect for two reasons. The
main reason was to save on the overhead because going with the trenchless technology there are
kind of disparate contracts and you save on the overhead. The other portion of that is we did not
want to cloud the assessment calculations if a bidder bids these kinds of items together. They
wanted a true representation on the assessable portions of the project.
MOTION by Councilmember Bolkcom to receive bids and award contract for the 2009
Watermain Rehabilitation Project No. 386 to Ellingson Drainage Companies of West Concord,
Minnesota, in the amount of $205,036.36. Seconded by Councilmember Saefke.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
12. Informal Status Reports.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated she wanted to thank the Glen Creek residents for meeting with
them last week.
Councilmember Bolkcom stated they had an incredible turnout at the drop-off center. She
thanked all of the volunteers and City staff who were there.
William Burns, City Manager, stated more than 2,400 people attended the Spring Fling at the
Springbrook Nature Center.
ADJOURN.
MOTION by Councilmember Barnette, seconded by Varichak, to adjourn.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, MAYOR LUND DECLARED THE
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:46 P.M.
Respectfully submitted by,
Denise M. Johnson Scott J. Lund
Recording Secretary Mayor