PR 12/20/1971�
`� ` 1
e MINUTES OF THE REGULAR PARKS Alm RECREATION CONMISSION MEET�NG� D�CEMB�R �, 1971�
n MeetZng was called to order at 7:50 p.m., by Chairman Fitzpatrick.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Fitzpatrick, Olson, Stimmler, Wagar.
MEMBERS ABSENT: Blair.
OTHERS PRESE.NT: Mr. F, Mrs. Bob Anderson, 6800 Oakley Street NE, 55432, 560-1395,
RE: Snowmobiling in Meadowlands Park.
Paul Brown, Director of Parks and Recreation.
Cathie Stordahl, Secretary to the Commission.
MINUTES OF NOVENBER �, 1971 r�Eri�c,
MOTIDN by S�',imm.�en, Secanded by Wagcvc, �a appnove �h.e M.i.rua.te,a ab �h.e Regu.2ah. Pankd and
Rec�ce.a,t,i.an Camru,as-c:on Mee,t,i,ng, da;ted Novemben 22, 1911. The Mofii.on ca�.i.e.d.
SNOY�'bBILING IN MEADOWLANDS PARK�
Mr. $ Mrs. Bob Anderson, residents of the neighborhood near Meadowlands Park, were
present to request permission to operate snowmobiles in Meadowlands Park. Mr.
Anderson opened his discussion with the statements that Meadowlands Park, as it is
presently found, is "no good to anyone". He stated that three weeks prior to this
time, it had three feet of water standing in it in the playground area. The City
dug a trench and buried a drainage pipe, but in Mr. Anderson's opinion, with a two
inch rainfall, this one pipe couldn't possibly handle the situation. He stated that
mini-bikes run in there all summer and there is absolutely nothing there to hurt.
Mr. Anderson said that if anyone or anything was to get hurt, it would be the children
n who could fall in the ditch. He said that there would be no problem in staying away
from the skating rink in the West end of the Park. He said that in the nine or ten
yeaxs that he'd lived there, there had not been a single accident. Mr. Anderson
asked that they consider this because this, so called "swamp" is no good for anything
except a skating rink or snowmobiles. Mr. Anderson stated that the City Attorney, Mr.
Gibbs, had iristructed the Fridley Police, not to chase the snowmobilers out of the
Park unless there was a complaint from a private citizen in the area. Mr. Anderson
said that he was running on private property and was told to get off by the Police.
He in turn went down to the Police Department and talked the situation over with them
and they in turn called Commissioner Olson. Mr. Olson said that he didn't know
anything about it, didn't know where the park was, and couldn't answer his questions.
Mr. Anderson said that this whole thing was Mr. Brown's idea. That he is.the one
who decides where snowmobiles can be operated and that the Commission merely goes
along with him.
Mr. Anderson stated that of all the people who live around Meadowlands Park, about
85 per cent of them own snowmobiles or mini bikes. In Mr. Anderson's opinion, the
mini bikes make a great de�l more noise than do the snowmobiles.
Mr. Stimmler asked Mr. Anderson if he felt that the area was large enough to open
up £or the residents of Fridley. Mr. Anderson said that it was for the neighborhood.
Mr. Stimmler explained that if it was opened up for the neighborhood, that it was
also open to all residents of Fridley. Mr. Anderson said that he really didn't
feel that other people would pull their machines in on a trailer, dump them off,
and ride in such a small area. He pointed out that the terrain was such that you
n cannot drive very fast, and not large enough to make it even worth while. He
didn't feel that this would be a problem. As far as the neighbors are concerned,
it's really ideal because if the children have problems with the machines, the
�athers are clos� by and can either fix them, or pull them home on a toboggan for
repair.
� Minutes o£ the Regular Parks and Recreation Commission Meeting. Page 2
^ SNONINDB I L I NG I N MEAD04VLAImS PARK �CON � T)�
Mr. Stimmler asked if there would be problems with the residents who lived right on
the park, and the noise it would create? Mr. Anderson stated that h.e did not think
there would be a problem, because he didn't believe they would come within 200 feet
of the homes at any one time, because on the South side, there are big back yards,
there's a skating rink on the West end, which would be closest to the homes, there's
private property on the 68th Street side (North Side), and on the East side, a Mr.
Gerrety owns the property, and Mr. Gerrety has never complained about anything. The
snowmobiles �un across his back yard and he owns the property from 67th to 68th Street.
Mr. Anderson stated that as far as he knew, there had been no complaints from anyone
in the neighborhood. According to Mr. Anderson, the neighbors have agreed to do their
own policing.
Mr. Stimmler said that this was not a new idea. He pointed out that according to the
newspapers, the snowmobilers have pretty well pushed themselves out of the 'I�vin Cities.
Minneapolis and St. Paul are not permitting this and so the suburbs which do allow it
are dxawing the people out of the City. Fridley offers North Park, Locke Park, Locke
Lake, and West Moore Lake, which are very large, nice areas for people to operate
snowmobiles. Mr. Stimmler feels that we have, probably, as many people from outside
the City, as residents, riding in Fridley, and with the other suburban areas tightening
up, if we open up any additional areas, we're going to have all of Brooklyn Center
and the other communities coming here to ride. Mr. Stimmler indicated that he lives
on the Mississippi River and as soon as it freezes, the people from the other side of
of the River, cross and drive through the vacant lots across the street from his home
and run the machines up and down the street. As a resident where they are riding,
n this irritates him.
Mr. Anderson asked if Mr. Stimmler was familiar with the Meadowlands area? Mr. Stimmler
stated that he had previously lived in that area. Mr. Anderson asked if snowmobiles
came up in his yard and bothered him7 Mr. Stimmler said that they didn't have snow-
mobiles at that time.
Mx. Anderson couldn't see where people would be very interested in bringing a machine
in on a trailer to ride over the rough ground and dodge the holes the children have
dug out in the summer.
Mr. Olson asked if Mr. Anderson was an employee of the City? Mr. Anderson stated that
he was. Mr. Olson stated that he felt that if we were going to offer an activity,
such as snowmobiling, that we should offer it to everyone, this meaning, that if
an area desired a place to ride snowmobiles and there was a place in their neighborhood
for this purpose, that we should provide such a place.
Mr. Fitzpatrick agreed that if a person was planning to put his snowmobile on a trailer
and pull it somewhere, it probably wouldn't be to such a small area. Mr. Fitzpatrick
pointed out that one of the reasons that limits had to be made, was that property, in
paxticular, Park property, was being damaged.
Mr. Stimmler asked if the neighborhood couldn't ride in Locke Park? Mr. Anderson said
that the only way they could get into Locke Park was to go down to Highway 47 and make
the crossing of the creek. Otherwise, there is no way to get across the creek until
n it freezes.
Mr. Olson pointed out that it isn't fair that some of the residents have snowmobile
privileges merely because they happen to live near one of the designated areas, while
others who would like to ride, can't, because of their location. Mr. Olson said that
we should either open up more ar�eas, so that everyone can participate, or eliminate
the aetivity altogether.
� Minutes of the Regular Parks and Recreation Commission Meeting. Page 3
nSNQY�108I L I NG I N NI�,ADOWLANDS PARK �CON � T):
, ,
Mr. and Mxs. Anderson left the meot�n$ befo�e the discussion ended.
Mr. S�.irtunler asked Mr. Olson ta explain his views in greater detail. Mr. Olsan said
that anothar example �f the work thi9 Commis�ion is trying to do is found �►t th6
Burlington Noxthern Park. Mr. Olsot� $sked Mr. StimmYer for the reasoning on the
locatian of the Hockey rink in this area2 Mr. Stimmler said that it was to serv�
the people in this area. Mr. Olson pointed out that this is the exact reason that
we should open up additional snowmobiling areas. Mr. Stimmler said that he £elt
the main reason for nat opening up these small areas to snawmobilers is the numbe�
af homes which are located so closa to the park and the noise which would result.
Mr. 01son stated that we wouldn't hesitate to vote to abolish snowmobiling �n Fridl,ey
altogether, but that as long as wa have it, we should open up arsas £or all of tha
citizens. Mr. Stimmlar asked Mr. Olson just what areas he would suggest to open.
Mr. Olson stated that at present, he would recommend the opening of Maadowlands Paxk
(the unused portion), the West Moore Lake property, and the Burlington Northgrn Fark
sight. Mr. Olson suggested that if too many cotaplaints ars raceived, th�y the
Commission would have to repeal the order.
Mr, Stimmler asked for clari£icat'ion of the age limits for young snowmabilers. It
was explained that a 12 year old can operate a snowmobile only after he has completed
the Snowmabile Trailing Course. Then, he can operate it fairly freely, but is nat
permittad to cross major streets or intersections. A 14 year old is required to have
n th� same training course, but can cross the intersections. Of course, all ages of
snowmobilers can crass major streets, but only at a contxolled intersection, and
yielding to all other forms oi traffic. Under 12 years of aga, a child can operata
a snowmobile anly on your own private property, or with permission from the pr�,vata
prop�rty ownex.
MOTION by O�aon, #o open up Meadow.Canda FanF�, xhe unuaed pont,i.on, Gle,ax Moane Lake
Pank. P�eope�c�l, and xhe Bu�tX.i.ng.ton Nonthe�.n Ph.ap�l, xo enou�rwb.i,e.eha �.n ��►.i.d�ey.
Mox.i.�v n� a.i.�ed b ec.aue e a�.eaek, a b a a eeo nd .
The Com�nission a$reed to delay any further discussion until such a time as it should
axise again.
FRIDLEY SENIOR CIiIZENS�
Mr. Brown reported that the Fridley Senior Citizens group is presently meeting in the
Civic Center Community Room, on the first and third Friday evenings, from 7:00 to
�,0:30 p.m. They have met two times and feel that it's a success. They have about
40 to 4S members in attendance. -
G I Rt.�S BROOhBALL �
Registration for Girl's Broomball is over and they have organized four teams wi,th 15
to 20 girls to a team. The games will be played at Flanery on Saturdays. Practice
sessiens are held at the various rinks around the City. Chuck Kasick is in charge
n of the pxogram.
, Minutes of the Regular Parks and Recreation Commission Meeting. page 4
CITY OF FRIAt.EY VS SCNOOI. DISTRICT #14�
Mr. Fitzpatrick ask�d far a report on the Boy�s Basketball Pro�ram, Mr. �rown stated
that ta his knawledge, several cit�zens were planning to attend a Schoo� �aard meetln�
regarding this pxoblem, but that to date, he had received no reporCs,
The School �aaxd has made a request to meet with tha Parks and ReGreat�,on Con�mission,
to discuss thair activities and any conflicts.
MOTION by S.t,im►n�e�c., Seconde.d by O.eaan, �ha.t Cha.i�cman F.i,tzpa.th�.ck and one o,the�c membe�c
o� #h.e Pack.a and Recne.a.�,i.on Co►ran,i.ae.i,on, accep.t Schoo.� �-i.s�ir.i.c.t M 14 Schoo� Boa�cd'e
�.nv.i,t,a,t.i.on xo mee,t �an .the pwcpoee o� de:se.uas.i.ng n¢.e�ce.a�',i.onae pn.ogn.ama. �on 8�@.a.ilc
w,i,Q�. be a.�k.ed zo aecompany M�c. F.i,tzpa��.ek., a.e V.i.e.e Chcwcma.n. The Mo.ti.on e.a��.ed.
�%2 NIEETING DiA1ES �
Mx. Fitzpatr3.ck suggested that the 1972 Meeting dates not be scheduled until the
January meeting, due ta the possible change ia Commissioners. Both Chaixman �itzpatrick
and Vice Chairman Blair�s texms have expired, effective December 31, 1971. The
Comoaissioners agreed.
MIxV I C I PAL PQQL �
Mr. Bxown drew the Commissioner's attention to the City Ma�zager's Memo dated December
17, 1971. Items A- E referred the discussion of the Fridley Municipal Pool back to
n the Commission for further study before any definite action is taken.
WINTER SPQRTS UAY�
Mr. Brown informed the Commission that the date has been set for Winter Sparts Day.
I� will be held at The Commons Park on January 29, 1972. The Jaycees are handling
this event and will take charge of the scheduling and publicity. They've scheduled
some Softball games, and will use orange Softballs. In years past, the weather has
been bad and even caused cancellation once or twice, but this year it is scheduled
early enough, that thare should be no problems.
Hoc�Y Rt�s FoR 1972,
The Commissioners received copies of the 1972 Hockey Rules. Mr. Stimmler, who is
al�o the Presi,dent of the Hockey Association, explained that they are basically the
s�n►e as last year.
Mx. Brown point�d out that one of the changes was to better define the penalty time.
The time does not stop until the puck has besn dropped to resume play, In the past,
if, fox aom� reason, there is a delay in getting play resumed, the player feels his
penalty should end two minutes after he enters the penalty box. This misundexstanding
should be cleared up this season. A copy of these rules will be posted on the bulletin
boards in the warming houses.
3'he Commissionexs agreed ta receive the Hockey Rules for the 1972 Season.
� ►! . : � a ►. � : r
Mr. 9rown asked the Commission if th� meeting date for 3anuary could be changed, due
ta the fact that he would be out of town the week of January 24th. The Cammissioners
a�reed to change the meeting date to Monday, January 31, 1972.
�
.
, Minutes of tFie Regular Parks and Recreation Commaission Meeting. �age 5
_ A
�SNOMMOBILING �
r
Mr. Wagar reopened the discussion of Snowmobiling at Meadowlands Park. He said that
the reasan he didn't second the Motion earlier, was that he knew there were a couple
of ladies who were upset, over by West Moore Lake, because of the damage the snowmobiles
were doing, but he feels that perhaps Mr. Anderson did have a valid request, in
Meadowlands. Mr. Wagar said that the park has been there as long as he has lived
in Fridley and it looks the same now as it did.then. He has lived in Fridley for
about 15 years and since we haven't had the funds to develop it, why not let them
use the Park until we can get it developed?
Mr. Stimmler said that he felt that Mr. Anderson was representing a vexy small
portion of the residents of that area. He feels that the noisa factor would be
too great. Mr. Stimmler felt that if there were a lar�e number of residents who
desired to use the Park for snowmobiling; that more of tham would be present. If
the room h�d been filled with residents requesting this, then he felt it might have
been a valid request.
Mr. Wagar suggested that the request be left open for the time being, or until all
of the Commissioners are present. Mr. Stimmler agreed and stated that he felt that
the residents would be out in force next time.
Mr. Brown po�nted out that other Cities are beginning to clamp down on the snowmobilers,
Minneapolis has banned them completely, and they have many areas which could be used
for this purpose.
�1 The Commission agreed to delay a Motion of any kind until they see if there is really
a d�sire on the part of the residents of the naighborhood to allow snowmobiling in
Meadowlands Park.
�� � •� �
MOTI ON b y Glaga�c, Seeo nded 6 y S�,i,mm�e�c, .ta a.d� o Wua. �'J�.e me�,t.i.ng a.t 9: 2 5 p, m.
The next xegular meeting will be held on January 31, 1972, at 7:30 p.m., in the
Community Room at Fridley Civic Center.
Resgectfully submitted,
�
� • �GI�
CATHIE STORDAHL, Secretary to the Commission
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