PR 09/24/1973MINUTES OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION CONNIISSION MEETING, SEPTENtBER 24, 1973�
Meeting was called to order at 7:45'p.m., by Chairman Blair.
MEMBEFIS PRESENT :
n MEMBERS EXCUSED:
OTHERS PRESENT:
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN,
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B1air, Stimml�r, Caldwell, Peterson.
Wagar. �
Corrine Moore, 200 Rice Creek Boulevard, 55432, 786-1695, Mini-biking.
Betty Boser, 209 69th Avenue N.E., 55432, 784-2292, Mini-biking.
John Falldin, 201 69th Avenue N.E., 55432, 784-8776, Mini-biking.
Thomas 0'Hara, 267 69th Avenue N.E., 55432, 786-7615, Mini-biking.
Chester Swanson, 226 69th Avenue N.E., 55432, 784-6701,�Mini-biking.
Glen Carlson, 217 69th Avenue N.E., 55432, 784-7912, Mini-biking.
Jim West, Planning Department, City of Fridley.
Jerry Boardman, Planning Department, City of Fridley.
Mrs. Jerry Boardman, 6550 East River Road, 55432, 560-6476, Guest.
Paul Brown, Director, Parks and Recreation Department.
Cathie Stordahl, Secretary to the Commission.
Jerry Boardman and Jim West were present on behalf of the Fridley Planning Department,
to present the Parks and Recreation Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Boardman opened his
remarks by stating that the changes which were requested by the Commission, regarding
the first section, have been completed. �
Mr. Blair stated that there were quite a number of pages in the Plan, regarding
bicycle trails and o.ff-the-road vehicles. He asked if there was a reason for the
extent of coverage for this particular item. Mr. Boardman stated that the main reason
was that there are a lot of mini-bikes, snowmobiles, and other such vehicles within
the City and unless they are banned entirely, something must be provided for them.
The City presently has restrictions on snowmobiles, whereby they can be operated on
City streets by a licensed driver, when going to and from one of the designated areas.
Mr. Blair stated that his questions were primarily to determine whether or not these
bicycle paths would be used by both bicycles and mini-bikes. Mr. Boardman stated that
this section was about circulation and the entire mode of recreation within the City.
There is a possibility that this could be done, depending on the type of system they
would like to provide. It would not be feasible to have both mini-bikes and pedestrians
on the same paths, so a separate system would have to be devised. He felt they should
be set up to exclude any motorized vehicles.
Mr. Boardman turned the discussion over to Jim West who did a great deal of the work
regarding circulation. Mr. West stated that the basic idea was to enable the residents
to get to the recreational areas, by use of improved bicycle and pedestrian patiis. �-:e
showed the Commissioners a map which outlined the trail system which is proposed within
the Comprehensive Plan, and stated that it was developed as a part of the Open Space
Plan which was•developed by the Metropolitan Council.
Mr. West referred back to the actual text which explained just how these trails would
be developed, reasons for the routes, and the means of separating the paths from the
motorized vehical traffic. Included, also, was the cost factor and priorities. The
plan includes about 32 miles of trails, 22 of which are on City streets. These areas
can be separated from the regular flow of traffic through the use of stripping, pylons,
curbing, etc. They tried to keep the cost as reasonable as possible. They are
estimating a cost of approximately $140.00 per block for signs, stripping, etc., or
a little over $1,100.00 per mi1e.
Mr. Boardman explained that most of Fridley's streets are wide enough for two-way
traffic and a parking lane on both sides. What they are recommending is to take one
Minutes of the Parks $ Recreation Commission Meeting, Septembex 24, 1973. Page 2
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN {CON�T):
^ of the parking lanes and close it off for
further explained that they would like to
traffic as much as possible. Where it is
parking lane for the bicycles and install
�
a bicycle and pedestrian path system. He
separate the bicycle traffic and pedestrian
available. they would like to use the
a sidewalk for pedestrians.
Mr. Boardman explained that the sys-tem was set up to tie people with services. He
pointed out that the schools, parks, and shopping areas are all connected to the
trail system.
The system, as proposed in the Plan, would cost an estimated $150,000.00. Of that
total amount, approximately $15,000.00 would be used for developing the system on
our present streets, with the balance being used to take the paths into areas where
there is no existing development. This total is also subject to l0o to 15% annual
increase £or labor and materials. Available funds could be bonding, developing it
within the Parks and Recreation Budget, or Federal funding, which is not readily
available at this time.
The next area discussed was the neighborhood park area. They looked into the
population of the differenf areas. Within each area, there are certain factors which
divide the residents �rom the available facilities, such as Rice Creek, Highways 47
and 65, Freeway 694, etc. Each area was broken down according to the 1970 census
and the natural barriers. The projected.population was considered and recommended
acreages determined. The mini-park service was set up on a quarter mile radius.
Mini-parks are� the normally referred to Tot Lots, which provide apparatus and play
areas for the younger set. The neighborhood parks are served by half-mile radius
sections and offer more play areas and facilities.
Mr. Stimmler asked what was expected at the meeting, as far as action taken was
concerned? Mr. Boardman stated that the Plan will be presented to the Planning
Cammission at their October lOth meeting and that they would like to have the approval
of the Commission, if possible.
Mr. Stimmler said that as far as he could tell, the Plan, as it is presently written,
deals mostly with bicycle paths. He felt that the priorities should deal more with
the population in the particular areas.
Mr. West felt that the biggest question should be with the space available. Mr.
Stimmler stated that the plan lays out the voids in our present system. He felt that
it was a good plan in that it tells us just what the needs are in the various areas,
but he would like to see the paths system placed secondary.. Mr. Boardman said that
they would take care of that change.
Mr. Blair said that he feels the plan should be approved and has no other changes.
MOTION b y S�'.imm.�eh, Seca nded
� n, a�i du m-c.t.te � y� e ti
MINI-BIKES AND THE SEARS PROPERTY�
Pete�r�son, �a
acce .t �he Pcvch,a and Rec�ce.a�,i.on Compnehe.�vs.�ve
n. �he�l a on catvu.e .
n Several residents of the area located near 69th Avenue and Rice Creek Boulevard
were present at the meetir�g to discuss the need for and the problems arising out of
the use of the Sears Property for mini-biking.
Mr. Blair asked Chester Swanson to open the discussion with a report on his letter to
the Fridley City Council, regarding the need for a facilit� for mini-bikes.
Minutes of the Parks � Recreation Commission Meeting, September 24, 1973. Page 3
MINI BIKES �CON�T):
^ Mr. Swanson reported that there is an ever-increasing number of bikes in Fridley
and that there are many who abuse the privilege of riding. As in many similar
sports, those few are going to spoil it for everyone. In recent years the mini-bike
grew in popularity and a parent would buy a bike for his youngster without giving
him the proper training and instructions. If the Sears property is closed off, these
youngsters will be forced into the streets, doing things they shouldn't, and the
results could be bad. Mr. Swanson agreed that the past Summer had been a bad one
for those residents whose property backs up to the Sears Property. He agreed that if
the City were to lease the property, they would have to devise a way to protect the�
homeowners. He also stated that an ordinance would have to be adopted to control the
noise and that signs should be posted. "
Mrs. Boser asked just who this area would be opened up to. She wondered if riders
from Blaine, Coon Rapids, and Spring Lake Park would be encouraged to come to Fridley
to ride. Mr. Swanson said that we couldn't make it exclusively for Fridley. Mrs.
Boser said that she could not visualize 150 bikers using 40 acres of land. Mr.
Swanson stated that whether or not riders came from other Cities was of no importance,
but they would be expected to abide by the rules and regulations set up by the City
of Fridley. Mrs. Boser asked if he would be requesting that the City enforce the
noise level and speed and Mr. Swanson said that they would not necessarily have to
enforce the speed.
Mr. Blair displayed a 19�0 map showing an aerial vi,ew of �xi,dleY. He �ointed out that
there really aren't a lot of places large enough for mini-bikes to operate. One axea
^ pointed out was near FMC Corporation which has been plotted for development, but could
possibly be used. There's another place near Midland Coop and a third is owned by
Burlington Northern Railroad. There is another area to the North and West of North
Park, which is located in Coon Rapids, but owned by Burlington Northern Railroad.
There is an area along the River and tiNest of FMC Corporation which would be large
enough for mini-bikes and Riverview Heights Park which is approximately 7 acres in
size, is owned by the City and is a possibility. Another place would be near the
Onan Corporation. There is some land in the North Innsbruck area, but it is quite
hilly and wooded, and probably not desirable for bike traffic. Mr..Blair pointed out
that in most cases, bikes would have to be trailered in. Mr. Swanson agreed.
Mrs. Boser asked if the proposal was to find one specific area within these mentioned?
Mr. Blair responded that he was not going to pick out one location, but rather that
they would make these recommendations to the City Council and that.they would have to
decide on which area would be best. .
Mr. Peterson asked if mini-bike riding was within the frame of recreation? He stated
that in his opinion, neither snowmobiling or mini-biking should fall within recreation
as he sees it for Fridley. Mr. Blair said that this was a question that the
Commissioners�had to answer for themselves.
Mr. Stimmler asked Mr. Swanson about his proposal to the City Council. He referred to
the portion where he stated that even very young children are operating bikes and how
noise would have to be controlled, by policing. Mr. Stimmler pointed out that this
type of problem is almost un-enforceable and referred to the snowmobile problems we
have had. He didn't want to infer that the two problems are similar, but felt there
n would be problems. Mr. Swanson said that bikes could be impounded, if violations
- occurred. Mr. Stimmler said that this would almost involve full time supervision.
, Mr. Swanson stated that the Park School Ranger could take care of that. Mr. Stimmler
explained that the primary purpose for the Ranger was to cut down on the vandalism
at the Parks and Schools.
Minutes o£ the Parks $ Recxeation Commission Meeting, September 24, 1973. Page 4
MINI-BIKES �CON�T):
�� Mr. Brown stated that the first decision should be whether or not we need to provide
an area for the mini-bikers, and secondly, where should the area be located. Mr.
Brown pointed out that the mini-bikers have not organized and come forward to ask for
an area to ride. Mr. Swanson stated that the whole idea of mini-biking and snow-
mobiling is to get out by oneself, and riding. It's an individual sport.
n
Mr. Brown suggested that other municipalities be contacted to see just how they have
handled their particular problems.
Mr. Blair asked the Commissioners for their recommendations. Mr. Peterson stated that
he had not received any requests for this type of activity and in his opinion, it does
not fit into the scope of recreation in Fridley. Mrs. Caldwell said that she does
not own a mini-bike, but that she feels there are a number of residents who do and
their interests should not be forgotten.
Mr. Blair felt that there are areas within the City which could be used ior mini-biking,
but that the machines would almost have to be trailered in.
Mr. Peterson pointed out that boating access has not been provided for Fridley residents
and he doesn't feel mini-bikes or snowmobiles should be�given more consideration.
M�TION by Cu.eCdure.P.e, �o necammend �ha� �he C.i,ty .2aafz ban a dwi.t,ab.2e .�.i,te �an �he
ope�ca�',i.un a� dn�wmab.i,eea and m.�.wi.-b�.fze,� w�i,ih,i.n ��r,i.deey.
The Motion died for the lack of a second.
M�TION 6u S�.unm.�e�c. Secanded
za nov.ccte a �a�c,�xcL an
apeJ1.Gl.�'.t.on O�t m,(.Yl.c.-�J-t.�LPJS.
Pe.te�usan, necammencli,ng �a �he
�c,an Ca►nm,c,a�s.c�n ae�sn � e
e Sea�us nnaae�r�u. atc anu a� e
RJ
n
Caunc,i,Q, �Gca,i a�
,c,b a�. a equcLte
eu nnar�eh.tu. �on
It was suggested that Jim Hill, Public Safety Director, be invited to attend the next
meeting of the Commission, to explained the proposed ordinance.
ISLANDS OF PEACE AGREEMENT�
The Commissioners asked Mr. Brown for an updating on the lease agreement with the
Islands of Peace Foundation. Mr. Brown explained that he had read the agreement and
had some questions which he felt must be answered before it was finalized.
The Agreement is to be put on the October agenda.
M�TION by Pe.te�r.zsan, Seconded by Ca2dwe,�2, nequea�',i,ng �he V.ucee.�an a� Pcvchd and
Rechea�i,an �a ,wn,ixe a.�e.t.te�c �o Mn. He�vu.cl� and Mn. Hen,ea��sfiy, a,aFiing �an �h.e
anawe�c.a zo �he que�szc.on,a wh,i.ch xhe �.vicec,tan had, negcucd,i,ng �he I4.2undb o� Peace
Agne¢�ne►tit. The Ma�i.on ccvvu.ed.
Mr. Peterson felt that there was no action which could be taken without the answers
to these questions.
�AND ACQUISITION PRIORITY LIST�
Mr. Brown turned the Commissioner's attention to the memorandum he had written to the
Acting City Manager, regarding the land acquisition priority list. Mr. Brown asked
the Commission to review the memorandum and maps, and.make a recommendation.
Minutes of the Parks � Recreation Commission Meeting, September 24, 1973. Page S
LAND ACQUISITION �CON�T);
/'1
Mr. Brown referred to area #1, the Rice Creek Area. On map la, Mr. Brown pointed
out that the area is under water and would present some problems out of the ordinary.
Mr. Blair asked if it would be possible to exchange some of the land for a better
parcel? Mr. Brown stated that that would have to be done with the developer.
After some general discussion about �naps la, lb, lc, and ld, the Commissioners ask
Mr. Brown to do some research and see if the parcels could be made large enough to
include a softball diamond and skating rink.
MOTION 6y
1rt.G7 T �LC/J
came un wti
Cll(.Q�CL d
Pe,te�c.ban, Seconded b
e y ��an , av� a�s
z a necvmmei2 u,t,c.on
U 2. LL i17�(,V1.Cj17UJ11 0
. an e a a ne,c.a
Cct2dwe,Z�. �a
cv K! etc
a � x.a.na
QCJLQ b . b G
�he rcepon.t a n.2.a.nd acqwi�s.i.ti.a n
uu� w aeve>c .us nece�s�sany �a
.a�c.#,c.an .cn � e Rc.ce ee cvice.a..
can tincxuae a
n
Regarding map 2, Mr. Peterson stated that with the Madsen Park facility, he felt we
were adequately serviced, without proceeding with the purchase near Unity Hospital..
Mr. Brown explained that Madsen is heavily used and if we could get another 3� acres
of �and, he felt we should do so. .
MDTIUN 6c�Pe.te�caan, Suonded by B.2a.uc, �a �.na�icu.c.i M�c. B�cown �a aafz �an 3 1/2 ac�ce�s
�vu�u f�vd a� �s.%te an c ec tiwta e t�ad�5tib� y a uy�.ng an ecvs.cng
v
�
^ DISCUSSION: Mrs. Caldwell said she was apposed to the purchase of the Unity parcels
because there is a greater need in other areas. Mr. Peterson agreed and stated that
' the Rice Creek area should have top priority.
Area 3a is one which should have a high priority, but we are in need of more acreage,
according to Mr. Blair. He recommended that we attempt to acquire as much land as
possible, to the West of the land which is presently owned by the City. Mr. Brown
will check into this.
GENERAL TELEVISION TOT LOT�
Mr. Brown updated the Commissioners regarding the General Television Tot Lot
possibility. He referred to the memorandum from Nasim Qureshi and his own response
concerning the property. In Mr. Brown's opinion, the property is too close to the
Commons Park, has poor access, and is really�too small to be put tio good use as a
Park. The Commission took no specific action regarding the memorandums.
MINUTES OF THE SEPTEMBER S, IJTj MEETING�
MOTIDN 6y Pe,tenaon, Secande.d 6y Ca.edwe,�,e, xo appnove �h.e M.i.nu�e,a a� �h.e Panfz,a and
Rec�ce.ati.an Camm.i.ad-i.an Mee,#,i.ng cta.ted Se��emben 5, 1993. The Ma�i.an ccvvu.ed.
ADJOURNMENT�
The Mee.t,i.ng wa.b adjau�cned cr,i 10:15 p.m., 6y Cha.vrman Becun.
n The next regular meeting will be held on Monday, October 29, 1973, at 7:30 p.m., in
the Community Room of Fridley Civic Center. The meeting was postponed one week, due
to the Veteran's Day Holiday.
Res ully submitted, -
��� ��_J �Q��
CA IE STOR�A�iL, Secretary to the ommission