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EQE 09/14/2010 Draft Minutes MINUTES ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY AND ENERGY COMMISSION FRIDLEY MUNICIPAL CENTER, 6431 UNIVERSITY AVE NE TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 2010, 6:00 P.M. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Velin called the meeting to order at 6:13 p.m. ROLL CALL Members Present: Barb Johns, Tina Nelson, Rich Svanda, Jack Velin, Paul Westby Members Absent: Anne Andrews Others Present: Rachel Harris, Environmental Planner Jim Saefke, City Council Julie Jones, Planning Manager Darrick Zarling, University of Bill Burns, City Manager Minnesota, Diesel Fuels Researcher Scott Lund, Fridley Mayor Dan Krivit, Foth Environmental and Dolores Varichak, City Council Engineering Audience Members: Dale Trippler, Maplewood Tim Pratt, Roseville Recycling Environmental Commission Chair Coordinator Norm Schiferl, Ramsey County Policy Al Lundstrom, Golden Valley Analyst Environmental Coordinator Jean Buckley, Ramsey County Lynn Gitelis, Golden Valley Environmental Health Environment Commission Mike Berkopec, Resident/Ace Solid Rich Baker, Golden Valley Environment Waste Commission Michael Bay, Ace Solid Waste Anne Norris, Crystal City Manager/Staff George Walter, to Environmental Quality Luke Reisdorf, Crystal Planner Commission , APPROVAL OF TUESDAY JULY 13, 2010, ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY & ENERGY COMMISSION MINUTES: MOTION by Mr. Svanda and seconded by Mr. Westby to approve the July 13, 2010, Environmental Quality & Energy Commission minutes. DISCUSSION by Mr. Svanda. He noticed two sentences with contradictory information regarding the -on waste services. One sentence stated that yard waste costs extra and the next sentence said it was free. Page 1 of 5 Draft Minutes Ms. Harris acknowledged that there was a misprint and the yard waste service can be added for a fee to garbage service in Blaine. She would correct the minutes to clarify. MOTION to approve minutes as amended, by Mr. Svanda and seconded by Mr. Westby. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON VELIN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. NEW BUSINESS Panel Discussion Part 4: Environmental Impacts of Garbage Trucks on City Streets Dr. Burns, Fridley City Manager, introduced Part 4 of the panel discussion Darrick Zarling, a researcher of diesel fuels at the University of Minnesota, and Dan Krivit, a consultant with Foth Industrial and Environmental. Dr. Burns mentioned that Ben Worel, MnDOT could not attend. Dr. Burns mentioned the topics of future Environmental Quality and Energy Commission meetings. On November 9, 2010, the licensed solid waste haulers will be invited to comment and give position statements with Dr. Burns leading the discussion. On January 11, or March 8, 2011, the Fridley Environmental Quality and Energy Commission will have the opportunity to review the year-long study, provide comments, and state their position. Dr. Burns then passed out the outline for the meeting. He began the discussion with addressing vehicle emissions and air quality. He was interested in hearing the panelists discuss carbon dioxide (C0 emissions, greenhouse gas emissions, health impacts of vehicle emissions, and 2) other impacts. Mr. Zarling said when people drive less, they use less fuel and that emits less GHG emissions. Older diesel trucks will emit more pollutants. Mr. Zarling asked if the haulers in attendance used the newer, lower emissions trucks. Mr. Berkopec, Ace Solid Waste said they are using a mix of old and new trucks. Foth Industrial and Environmental was commissioned by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency to conduct a study of fifty cities. Of those surveyed, five had organized garbage collection and five had subscription-based garbage service. The study measured CO2 and greenhouse gas emission differences, but the various effects such as automated versus manual connections; single axel versus dual axel; driver behavior; and geography of streets were not counted. Dr. Burns introduced the second subtopic to the panel. He asked each panelist to speak on the variables that impact affect of vehicle emissions. Does it vary by distance from major highways; or distance between hauler stops? What are the findings for vehicle emissions in organized vs. open collection Systems? Page 2 of 6 Draft Minutes Mr. Krivit said the Foth study measured the time in neighborhood, not time to and from route and the drive time between stops and time to load. The focus was on drive fuel consumption because fuel consumption of time to load is relatively the same between organized collection and open hauling. Mr. Krivit added that the Foth summary showed more fuel was used in open hauling garbage systems and less fuel was used in organized collection. Dr. Burns asked if the fuel type makes less of a difference than distance between stops when considering fuel consumption. Mr. Zarling said that vehicles use more fuel in acceleration. Therefore, a greater frequency of stops or a shorter distance between stops leads to greater fuel consumption. Mr. Walters said the diesel engines are regulated by the Federal government. Diesel emissions are close to zero percent in the 2010 engines. Dr. Burns asked if diesel engines are significant contributors of pollution in the environment. Mr. Zarling said localized emissions, such as the frequency of vehicles in an area, are contributors of pollution. He gave the example of five trucks in a neighborhood polluting more than one truck in a neighborhood. Dr. Burns asked if five trucks in a neighborhood compared to one truck is a significant environmental polluter. Mr. Zarling said it is probably not a significant pollution contributor. This is already a lot of environmental pollution in an urban area. Mr. Krivit said that data is not in the Foth study. Mr. Zarling said emissions are different than carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is a fuel emission. Krivit said green house gas and other pollutants have been mitigated by improvements in diesel engine technology. Other pollutants include carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, sulfuric oxide and soot. Mr. Svanda said whether the garbage trucks run on gas or diesel and have an efficient engine or not, there are more trucks are on the road with an open collection system. With an organized collection there could be less fuel consumed and less dependence on foreign oil. Mr. Walters said we would make a bigger impact on reducing fuel consumption if we all got out of our cars and took the bus compared to taking a couple of garbage trucks off the road. Dr. Burns said that wraps up the comments on variables such as effects of vehicle emissions, distance from major highways, distance between hauler stops and findings for vehicle emissions in organized versus open collection systems. Page 3 of 6 Draft Minutes Dr. Burns said the next topic will focus on improvements to garbage vehicles that could reduce emissions, including gasoline versus diesel, natural gas engines, or battery powered vehicles. Mr. Berkopec said everyone runs on diesel now. Mr. Zarling is aware of some manufacturers experimenting with hybrid trucks, but diesel is still the best fuel for our environment with cold weather. Ms. Jones asked about emission savings from bio fuels. Mr. Zarling said that when you consider the life cycle of bio fuels, then yes, this is an emissions saving. State vehicles will use twenty percent biodiesel by 2015. They will use five percent biodiesel in winter. Dr. Burns introduced the next topic of noise pollution. Mr. Krivit said the Foth study did not address that topic and he has no comment. Dr. Burns asked the haulers present if they had data. Representatives from Ace Solid Waste and Walters had no data. Mr. Zarling had no data. Mr. Krivit said it is easier to enforce noise reduction in a contract situation than in open hauling. Mayor Lund said he gets a lot of comments about noise from residents. He said we have an aging community and they are home and more aware of what goes on in a neighborhood. Ms. Buckley said cities often track resident complaints. When the inspector has to go check on the address that is a scientific way to track data and study noise from garbage trucks. Dr. Burns introduced the next topic about the impacts of collection on city streets. The panel discussion will address studies supporting or denying impacts of vehicle weight on city streets and bridges and the effect of freeze and thaw weather cycle. He asked the panelist if adjustments in traffic impacts really make a difference in cold climates with lots of snow and ice, and seasonal impacts of vehicle weight on City streets and bridges. Mr. Krivit reported data from a University of Michigan study showed fatigue to pavement was impacted by axel weight and speed of trucks. MN DOT and LRRB is currently conducting a study that will provide more information on the impacts of collection on city streets. Mr. Krivit shared data from Falcon Heights and Arden Hills. In Arden Hills, streets were designed to handle garbage truck traffic from both open and organized garbage systems. Their city engineer reported a five to ten year increased life span on streets if the city could switch to organized collection. Mr. Saefke said the weight of heavy vehicles such as a school bus or garbage truck has greater impact on older streets. Factors are age of streets, axel loads and base material of streets. Page 4 of 6 Draft Minutes Mr. Trippler said the carrying capacity of the road also affects the extent to which garbage trucks weaken roads. In the city where he lives he said the residents have made the connection between truck usage, street wear and tear and assessments for street improvements. Dr. Burns said that was the impetus for Fridley to study garbage hauling. The residents complained about street assessments. In Crystal, the city has alleys. They wear quickly under multiple garbage trucks. Mr. Svanda asked if Fridley had built its streets to accommodate heavy trucks. Mr. Burns said that is a question for our City Engineer meeting due to illness. Ms. Johns asked if Fridley was meeting the bare minimums of street standards. Mr. Burns noted that was also a question for the City Engineer. Mr. Burns brought up the last topic for the panel. He asked them to explain the ways to mitigate the impact of vehicle weight on city streets. Do axles and tires, street design, or other items mitigate vehicle weight impact? For example, he suggested comparing the gross vehicle weight of school bus to a garbage truck. A school bus weighs 26,000 pounds. How much does a garbage truck weigh? Mr. Berkopec said a fully loaded garbage truck weighs 50,000 pounds, but garbage truck weight is spread over three axels and the weight of a school bus is distributed over two axels. Ms. Buckley said the newer trucks using hydraulic loading are lighter and may weigh less than 50,000 pounds. Mr. Burns asked whether garbage trucks have a greater impact on streets in cold weather. impact wear. Mr. Walters added that the older garbage trucks were heavier when empty, able to carry fewer pounds of garbage, than the new hydraulic loading trucks. Both are same weight, 50,000 pounds gross vehicle weight, when full. In response to an audience question about any road restrictions on garbage trucks, Mr. Walters said garbage trucks are exempt. He added that there is more damage to roads with organized collection. There are fewer trucks on road and each vehicle weighs more. A heavier weight equals more damage. Mr. Berkopec said the residents will have to decide what is important. Mr. Krivit referred to the Foth study that reviewed five cities that switched to organized Page 5 of 6 Draft Minutes collection. The actual miles traveled by garbage trucks decrease in those communities. OLD BUSINESS There was no old business to report. STAFF REPORT There was no staff report. OTHER BUSINESS/ANNOUNCEMENTS There were no announcements. ADJOURNMENT APPROVAL OF ADJOURNING THE SEPTEMBER 14, 2010, ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY & ENERGY COMMISSION MEETING. MOTION by Mr. Westby, seconded by Mr. Svanda, to adjourn the meeting. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON VELIN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED AND THE SEPTEMBER 14, 2010, ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY & ENERGY COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:30 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Rachel Harris Environmental Planner and Staff Liaison Page 6 of 6