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CHM 04/28/2008 - 29975CITY OF FRIDLEY CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING April 28, 2008 CALL TO ORDER: Chairperson Borman called the Charter Commission meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Peter Borman, Gary Braam, Don Findell, Carol Hoiby, Bill Holm, Mary Kirkwood, Ted Kranz, Leslie Plummer, Pam Reynolds, Noel Ryan, Lois Scholzen and Cindy Soule Members Absent: Nancy Jorgenson Others Present: Deb Skogen, City Clerk/Staff Liaison Richard Nelson, Prospective Charter Commission Member APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Commissioner Braam MOVED and Commissioner Kranz seconded a motion to approve the agenda. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BORMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. APPROVAL OF MARCH 24, 2008, CHARTER COMMISSION MINUTES: Commissioner Ryan MOVED and Commissioner Braam seconded a motion to approve the March 24, 2008, Charter Commission Minutes. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BORMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS A. Nominations Committee Report and election — completed at the March meeting. B. Resignation of Craig Gordon Craig Gordon resigned in a letter to the Commission on April 2, 2008. This provides for an additional vacancy on the Charter Commission. C. Recommendation of Appointment to Charter Commission Richard Nelson was present to answer any questions the Charter Commission had. He is a Business Agent for MN Association of Professional Employees (MAPE) for the State of Minnesota and some municipalities within the State. There was further discussion and introductions were made. Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 2 Commissioner Kranz MOVED and Commissioner Braam seconded a motion recommending Richard Nelson to the Chief Judge of the l O'h Judicial District for appointment to the Fridley Charter Commission to fill the term vacated by Kathleen Linder at the end of her term. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BORMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Discussion of Chapter 7 Commissioner Holm said it would be very contentious to changed Section 7.02, but felt the word least should be changed to less in Section 7.02.1. After some discussion, it was agreed it should be changed. There were various questions about different sections of Chapter 7 and about what they meant, for instance, Sections 7.02.2.1) and 7.02.3.D. which both came about as a result of the Charter Amendment petition and the work group that addressed the problems. Commissioner Ryan was interested in Section 7.12.13. debt service and the ability to liquidate investments. Commissioner Soule explained the language allowed the city to liquidate investments at appropriate times for debt payments. There were other questions about other sections. Deb Skogen reviewed the budget process according to the Charter and said it was the current process used by the City to prepare the budget. The Commissioners asked staff to check with the Finance Director or City Manager to see if they had any suggested changes. Discussion of Chapter 8 Deb Skogen told the Charter Commission the State Legislature was either in the process or had increased the contract amount from $50,000 to about $100,000 which had been changed in 2001 when our Charter was at 10,000 and the state increased the amount to $50,000. The Commission discussed whether or not to increase the fee or amend the code from having a dollar amount to as allowable by state law. They recommended getting feedback from the Finance Director and City Council. Commissioner Holm wondered about Section 8.01. He wondered about adding the word individual before notices after the notice is published. After further discussion it was agreed the sentence did not make sense. Commissioner Findell offered the following change: "To alter a zoning plan, the City Council shall hold a public hearing_ And nNotice shall be published fourteen (14) days prior to said hearing with notices sent to affected property owners." The Commissioners it was a good change. Discussion of City Government Structure Commissioner Reynolds asked if the Commissioners had been provided with the information she provided to Chairperson Borman. Chairperson Borman said he summarized her statements but had not provided a copy of the e -mail she had sent to him. Commissioner Reynolds said the minutes only reflect part of why she wanted a change. She felt the mayor should be more accountable because you elect that person to do your bidding and a strong mayor does that. You are electing a mayor and city council members. The current charter says the mayor is only there for ceremonial purposes, so he's like the Burger King guy of Fridley. There are state statutes that prohibit the mayor from interfering with what the city manager does. She said in the minutes of the last meeting Nancy Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 3 Jorgenson indicated because I was a member of the Citizens Concerned for Fridley that we wanted to go back to the status quo of 50 to 60 years ago. That I don't believe in moving forward and looking at a different form of government is asking to go back 50 or 60 years ago. Commissioner Reynolds said Commissioner Jorgenson was wrong. It had nothing with being a concerned citizen of Fridley but with comments made by the current mayor during a 2004 League of Women Voters Candidate Forum. Commissioner Reynolds said several questions were asked to Scott Lund and his response was that there was not much he could do with a weak mayor system. She said the questions had to do with administrative issues in the city but she would have to review the video again to provide what the questions were. Commissioner Reynolds said the information handed out in the packet all appeared to be against a strong mayor form of governance. Commission Reynolds noticed some of the documents in the materials provided to the Commission were from the LMC, NLC and IMCA, all three groups list themselves as being a 501.3(C), whose sole function is to maintain city manager forms of government. Deb Skogen said the LMC and the NLC provided information; they did not try to maintain city manager forms of governance. Commissioner Reynolds said there were other groups who would provide pros for having a strong mayor. Commissioner Borman asked what some of the pros were. Commissioner Reynolds said there was an accountability factor, the citizens elect the mayor, the mayor takes the active role in running the city and it was not unusual to have a strong mayor form of governance for a city the size of Fridley. She said typically you see it in huge cities like San Diego. Commissioner Braam asked if Commissioner Reynolds was comparing San Diego to Fridley. Commissioner Borman said San Diego had just changed their governance structure with a 5 year sunset to keep it or change it back. Commissioner Borman said you could find pros and cons and experts for either side. He highlighted what he felt was important and that was what he presented, not because it as right or wrong. He said when he read the LMC or the NLC or the IMCA, there was a lot of compelling information about the population of cities and their form of government and felt it was good information. Commissioner Reynolds said in last months minutes Commissioner Holm said a strong mayor would mean the mayor would be the city administrator requiring a full time position and benefits. She said typically what happens in a strong mayor is you still have the same set up, but would not have the manager, but rather a city administrator or city clerk. It does not require the city council become full -time, other than the mayor who takes on the role of the city manager so your elected official takes on the role of running the city. Commissioner Soule felt, for a city the size of Fridley, to have an elected official take on the role of an executive level administrator would require a certain set of skills and education. She said in the cities where it was successful (like San Diego or Minneapolis), the cities were larger allowing the Mayor to have their own staff to assist with the administration who were trained, professional administrators, like any other chief executive officer in any business. She felt it would be more cost effective for the city and better to have a trained, professional administrator. Commissioner Reynolds said Fridley already had staff in place. All of the same people the mayor would need are already here. The difference is that instead of an unelected official, you would have an elected official. Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 4 Commissioner Soule said the city manager serves at the pleasure of the city council. Rick Nelson said the city manager could be fired at anytime by a vote of 3 of the councilmembers. Commissioner Reynolds said there was a Minnesota Statute that does not allow interference with the administration of the city. Deb Skogen asked if she had a statute number, but Commissioner Reynolds did not. Commissioner Reynolds said state law defined what the city council did and what the city manager did. Commissioner Braam said there has to be checks and balances in the system. Commissioner Reynolds said when certain things happen in the city that are motivated by staff and brought forward to the city council, the only option the city council has is to say no to it and then turn around and continue to vote no each time it keeps coming back. She thought the whole mess with the utilities could have been avoided if there had been a strong mayor. There would not have been the mistrust. Commissioner Reynolds said nobody knows; the average Joe on the street has no idea as to what goes on. Commissioner Braam asked if she thought they cared. Commissioner Reynolds thought they did care. Commissioner Braam said the voters did not vote on the question in several elections and that was why it failed, the language was hard to understand or voters didn't take the time to understand the question. Commissioner Reynolds said the first two votes had a fairly high vote count, but it wasn't until this last vote that it was extremely low. Deb Skogen said the votes were higher during the regular election in 2004 and 2006; however in 2005 and 2007, the votes cast were much lower as the turnout was lower at a special election. Commissioner Reynolds felt a decision would have to be made, as Bill Burns would retire at some point. She said the City has a decision to make of finding a new city manager who fits in or, perhaps, look at a different form of government. She said she was not the only person in Fridley who's been talking about a strong mayor and did not think she would have any difficulty in getting 534 signatures, if not double that amount. She felt people were tired of unelected, quasi officials. City staff, city managers, and the Met Council, all of these were people who made decisions on behalf of the voters who were not elected. Commissioner Soule said the City was different than the Met Council. She said the Met Council was a taxing district setting the fees for the water and sewer and public transportation. Commissioner Reynolds said state statutes had to be altered and rights had to be given up to an unelected group of people. Commissioner Soule said it was different in Fridley because the taxes and fees were set through the budgeting process by the city council who are elected officials. She said that was part of the democratic form of government. Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 5 Pam Reynolds asked if Commissioner Soule was telling her that the city council figured out all of the financial stuff and that it didn't go through the Rick Pribyl and his staff or the city manager. Commissioner Soule said it went through both. Deb Skogen outlined the current budget process starting with the commissioner survey asking what citizens want. From that, department heads or supervisors know what is needed and prepare their budgets within a certain percentage (usually 3% or lower) which is then presented to the city manager who makes decisions and presents the budget to the city council. It is still ultimately up to the city council to make those decisions. Commissioner Reynolds asked if the city council saw each budget item. Deb Skogen said yes, they get a draft budget of all departments and could ask questions or clarifications from staff if they needed to. Commissioner Reynolds felt if they had a question they could not ask the department head but had to go through the city manager. Deb Skogen said the budget was provided to the city council during a conference meeting held in June with all of the department heads in attendance to answer questions or supply information. The Council meets one more time before August to more formalize the budget and in August they adopt the preliminary budget and preliminary tax levy which has to be sent to Anoka County by September 15tH Commissioner Reynolds said in Chapter 2, "except for purpose of inquiry, the council and its members shall deal with and control the administrative services solely through the city manager." She said that language was what led her to look farther into the state statute which had an interference clause. Commissioner Holm wondered if the interference clause bothered Commissioner Reynolds. Commissioner Reynolds said if the mayor wanted to go and talk or give some work direction to the police department, or fire department, or other staff, the mayor ought to be able without having to go through the city manager. Deb Skogen said the process was the same in most cities, because the administrator or manager is responsible and needs to know what is going on. She said if a city council member contacted her, she provides what they need and also provides it to the city manager and her department head so they were aware of the request. She said the city manager has asked the council go through him so he is aware of what is going on. When the council does ask for information or to have things done, staff gets the direction from the city manager. Commissioner Reynolds said in a strong mayor form that request would come from the mayor. Commissioner Borman said the city administrator would still be copied on it. Commissioner Reynolds said not necessarily. Commissioner Borman asked why not. He said if he was working for a mayor and still had day -to -day control, if someone in his chain of command didn't notify him of something the mayor asked him to do, Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 6 how could he provide information or have control. He used his current experience at his place of employment as an example. Commissioner Reynolds said that would be micro - managing. Rick Nelson said that was what she was asking the city council to do. Commissioner Reynolds said what she was asking was to go back to a government that is a democracy instead of bureaucracy. Commissioner Borman said if the mayor came to him and had hired a city administrator to take care of the day -to -day administration and did not tell that administrator that he wanted someone to do this and that person went to the administrator and said well the mayor told me to do this and provided it to the administrator, the administrator would wonder why he did not know or wasn't told about it if it is his responsibility as administrator. Commissioner Holm said the current form of government doesn't allow the mayor to go to staff as the mayor is one of five city council members. The mayor doesn't have the authority to direct employees. Commissioner Borman asked Commissioner Reynolds about Nancy Jorgenson's comment stating citizens are represented by three people currently, the mayor, councilmember at large and ward councilmember, and whether or not that wasn't enough representation. Commissioner Reynolds said there was a big difference between representative government, or the Burger King form of government, and having someone that directly answers to you because you voted for them. She said what we do here is vote for people who sit in chairs while someone behind the scenes is running the whole show. Rick Nelson said you hold the council accountable but don't change the form of government, you hold the people who were elected accountable to do what we ask them to do. If they are not doing what you elected them to do, you should replace them on the ballot. Commissioner Reynolds said you would still have the same city manager. Rick Nelson said the city council still had the authority or power to deal with the city manager, plus beyond this, as he negotiates many of these types of contracts, if the city manager is not doing their job, the council has the power to fire them. Commissioner Reynolds said she understood she was not going to get anywhere with the Commission. She said it was simple, she cast a ballot and the person she cast the ballot for she wants them running the show, not someone else. What was the sense of voting? Why not have a town Board. Commissioner Findell wondered what Commissioner Reynolds thought was so unclear about Chapter 2 of the Charter. He said Chapter 2 states the city council shall have complete control over the city administration but shall exercise this through a manager. He said if you are going to bring a paid mayor into the picture, you would then be paying two city managers and did not think citizens would want to pay for this. Commissioner Reynolds felt you would not be paying for two city managers. Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 7 Commissioner Findell said you would have the mayor and city administrator. He said no one would know going into the election which candidate had the best management skills needed to do the job, so they would have to hire someone else to take over their management responsibility as no one could do it without experience or education. Commissioner Holm said it may require a different skill set running for mayor in that you want a person who is an administrator as well as a policy maker. Commissioner Braam asked how many people of the 30,000 people in the city were qualified. Commissioner Reynolds said the strong mayor and the city administrator in many cases come from the rank of city clerk. Commissioner Holm asked if Commissioner Reynolds knew which sections of the charter would need to be changed. Commissioner Reynolds said she wasn't sure of all of the section, but Chapter 6 deals with the power of the city manger, Chapter 2 would have to be changed. Commissioner Holm said we currently have a city council who directs the city manager to do things. If we changed to a strong mayor, the mayor still has to answer to the council in terms of budgets, the question is how much do you gain or how much additional accountability is gained by having the mayor serve as essentially as the city manager. Commissioner Reynolds felt there was a lot of accountability on the part of the citizens who do the electing. Commissioner Findell wondered if another council person would be needed to off -set the four votes of the remaining councilmembers. Commissioner Braam said besides losing an administrative position, you've lost a councilmember, which is a vote. He said it was a big thing on a $15 million budget. Commissioner Holm asked if Commissioner Reynolds expected the strong mayor to be an effective administrator person as well as a Burger King guy. Commissioner Reynolds said right now we have a ceremonial mayor. Commissioner Holm said we also have a mayor who sets policy along with four other councilmembers. Commissioner Reynolds felt policy all comes from staff. Commissioner Findell said it came from the city ordinances. Commissioner Reynolds asked who they were drafted by. Deb Skogen said ordinances were drafted or prepared at the request of the city council and approved by city council. Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 8 Commissioner Reynolds said staff comes to the city council and recommends approval. She wasn't sure the city council asked staff to prepare it. Deb Skogen said yes. Staff does the research and provides a recommendation. Commissioner Holm said there might be a police matter and the police might suggest a way solve the problem. Deb Skogen said when preparing memos to the City Manager and Council, you provide the background information and usually a recommendation, but not always to approve; but staff works within the parameters given to them. Commissioner Reynolds said the only thing she had ever seen was from the staff. Commissioner Borman asked if there was something recent about changing the maintenance code. Commissioner Reynolds said it came from the housing forums at the request of citizens. It went then to the planning and development. She did not remember hearing the mayor or city council directing staff to put it together. Commissioner Borman wondered, with Bill Burns retiring, the city could do a national search with a huge pool of individuals who would be qualified to be a city manager. But if you change the structure, the mayor would have to be elected from a very small pool of individuals qualified from within the City. Commissioner Reynolds said they would then have a vested interested in the city. Commissioner Borman wondered how you would justify that person's qualifications to do the job. Because that person had a lot of backing and could get the name out better, or had a lot of friends in Fridley? How are you going to base the salary of that new mayor? Commissioner Reynolds said there would have to be some checks and balances so the mayor would not just get his hands on the checkbook. Commissioner Borman asked how you based the salary Commissioner Reynolds said those were issues that would have to be worked out as you look at the system. She said Little Rock, Arkansas, had a group who sat down and figured out what the qualifications were. Commissioner Borman asked if they were then going to require these skills of anyone who ran for mayor. Commissioner Reynolds said that was why cities with a strong mayor have an administrator as well, someone who has the schooling, and someone you can hire with the appropriate qualifications. None the less, the mayor answers to the citizens. Commissioner Borman asked if a person was going to run for mayor, what was going to be that persons qualifications to be an administrator of a $15 million budget? He asked who was to say that he was a better person than a Gary Braam or Pam Reynolds to be the sole administrator and head of a $15 million budget. What are his qualifications, how is he going to prove it? Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 9 Commissioner Reynolds said he would not have to meet any other qualifications than are currently required to be the mayor. Commissioner Borman said you are electing that person to be in charge of the budget. Commissioner Reynolds asked if he was then saying Scott Lund couldn't run the city; hasn't he run businesses before? Commissioner Borman said he knew Scott Lund very well, has known him for a long time and considers him a friend, but did not want him to be in charge of everything. He said there are checks and balances in the system now. Commissioner Reynolds said there are checks and balances as well with a strong mayor by having the mayor be the administrator. But you still have the entire staff available to help when the mayor takes over. Commissioner Soule wondered if this was an issue the Charter Commission as a whole wanted to take on to consider and discuss. She said it appeared there were people in agreement and disagreement and wondered if the Committee as a whole wanted to discuss it. Commissioner Ryan was confused and did not want to do anything that would cost the city more money. Commissioner Hoiby said she understood there was a very small percentage of cities that had a strong mayor. Deb Skogen said in Minnesota the only cities with a strong mayor council are Minneapolis, St. Paul and Duluth. She said there were not very many to debate and discuss. Commissioner Ryan said they elect a new mayor every two years in Duluth. Deb Skogen said the original charter had the council city manager structure. Commissioner Holm said he would like to have more information about the pros and cons as the initial reaction of most members is no. He said it deserved a fair hearing to look at both sides. Commissioner Reynolds said she would look at her documentation to provide to the Commission for review before the next meeting. Commissioner Braam asked Commissioner Reynolds if the change was made to strong mayor council, if she felt qualified enough to run for that job. Commissioner Reynolds said she is going to run again and felt qualified to be in the position as she could read numbers as well as the next guy. Commissioner Braam asked if she knew how to apply for federal grants and understood where money came from, as Mr. Burns Doctorate qualified him for that. Commissioner Reynolds felt Mr. Burns had someone helping with that. Commissioner Braam asked Commissioner Reynolds if Mr. Burns returned her calls and she said yes. Commissioner Braam said he did not have to as he worked for the council, so what was it she found so offense? Adopted May 19, 2008 CHARTER COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 28, 2008 PAGE 10 Commissioner Reynolds said there was nothing offensive about Mr. Burns, but the City was coming to a fork in the road where there will be an opportunity to look at another form before he retires. She said Nancy Jorgenson's statement was wrong, that she belongs to a group that wants to keep it like it was 50 to 60 years ago. She said it sounded to her like it was the Charter Commission who wanted to stay in the past. Commissioner Braam felt with a population of 30,000 there were not a lot of people who would be qualified to be a strong mayor able to prepare a $15 million dollar budget. Rick Nelson said by changing the structure the city would be adding another person at the top. Commissioner Reynolds disagreed and felt they would not be adding another position. Rick Nelson said if city manager was not doing their job, it took three city councilmembers to decide and agree to replace the city manager. You would be adding another level when you change to strong mayor. He said there was nothing more desirable than having staff and people who work at the city want to work here. The city staff is accountable to the taxpayers, as the taxpayers pay their salaries, they are the unsung heroes. He said, yes, some of them may be arrogant, but they are still good people. The charter provides the current structure and, if it's not broke, it doesn't need to be fixed. He said there were many other larger cities (Coon Rapids, Bloomington, St. Cloud, etc) that were not changing their form of governance structure so why should the City of Fridley need to change. Commissioner Holm asked what changed with a strong mayor and did not know enough. Commissioner Ryan wondered why we needed to change. She was concerned that it might cost too much. Commissioner Holm MOVED and Commissioner Reynolds seconded a motion to discuss the governance structure at its next meeting. Commissioners Holm, Reynolds, Braam, Scholzen, Findell, Soule and Borman voted aye. Commissioners Hoiby, Ryan, Kirkwood and Plummer voted nay. , CHAIRPERSON BORMAN DECLARED THE MOTION APPROVED BY A VOTE OF 7 TO 4. ADJOURNMENT: Commissioner Findell MOVED and Commissioner Kirkwood seconded a motion to adjourn the meeting. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BORMAN DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED AND THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 8:45 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Debra A. Skogen, City Clerk/Staff Liaison Carol Hoiby, Secretary Adopted May 19, 2008