PL SUBCOM 06/29/1967 - 31052�. PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS Page 1
S^iREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOT�'Il�ZITTEE - JUNE 29 , 1967
ROLL CALL:
The meetin.g was called to order at 7:35 PoM. by Chairman Jensen.
Members present: Jensen, Nagel, Schmedeke, Albrecht, M,yhra
Others present: Darrel Clark, Engineering Assistant
ORDER OF AGENDA:
The Subcommittee decided to adopt the order of agenda as written.
1. VACATION REQUEST: SAV #67-03, ROBEftT MINDER: Vacation of Charles Street
between Anna Street and i�Iississippi River.
Chairman Jensen said that he was going to remove himself from the discussion
as he would likely be prejudiced inasmuch as Mr. Ninder was his employer.
N1xo Minder said he owned the property which lies to the South of Charles
Street, being Lot 3, Block 2, Hayes River Lots, and the lot on the other
side of Charles Street is under purchase agreement by Julkowski, He has'
come in with a plat on their side and Peter Lametti and I have on the two
lots directly to the South. �
Three �rears ago the same question came up when someone was going to buy
the land and put an apartment complex on it. The vacation was then dropped
after the plan didn't go through. Julkowski was required to give easements
along the East boundary and North boundary of his property. The school owns
the piece to the North, and they held up on making a determination whethe-r or
not they would give their half. Until there was another way of getting down
and across, they did not want to vacate this. There is a 20 foot drop in
about 100 feet and impossible to build a road. We are not cutting out an
access that is of any particular value if the other access was divided.
Chairmar_ Jensen stated it would be his judgr.laxzt that a determination
should be made whether or not a street is needed to the park on Chase Island
and therefore, the request should go to the Parks and Recreation Commission
and then to the Planning Commission.
Member Nagel said it looks more economical to have the road on the North
side than where it presently exists.
Mr. Minder said that no one is being cut off to get into their property
in an�r way .
Member Myhra said it seemed to him the main concern is the interest the
Parks and Recreation would have regarding the access to the park, and as far
as we are concerned, the street has little use. �
MOTION by Nagel, seconded by Myhra, that the Plats & Subdivisions,
Streets & Utilities Subcomnittee approve the vacation request; SAV #67-03,
Robert Minder, of Charles Street between Anra Street and the Mississippi River
subject to: l� send the request on to the Parks and Recreation Commission
for their approval, 2) verify easement on the East end and North of Moon
property is a matter of record. Upon a voice vote, Chairman Jensen abstaining,
all voting aye, the motion carried. •
Plats & Subdi�isions page 2
' Streets & Utilities Subcommittee June 2 1 5�
R 2, PROPOSID FftELINrIi19RY PLAT: P.S. #67-04 BATTE'dSON A➢DITION DONALD BATT�SON:
All that part of Lot 25, Auditor's Subdivision #23 Revised that lies West
of the Westerly right of way line of Riverview Terrace. ,
Mr. Batterson explained that from the circle (cul de sac� the proposed
house would be about 200 feet. Chairman Jensen asked Mr. Batterson if what he
is propos�.ng is that a single lot be platted, ar�d the answer was "yes".
Mr. Batterson was asked how access was obtained to the present home
and he said b� a double driveway, horseshoe shaped. Chairman Jensen commented
the normal requirements are not pertinent to this proposed subdivision. He
presumed it would be Mr• Batterson's intent to remove that portion of the
vacated cul de sac which now exists. Mr. Batterson said he did not intend to
remove it as the cost would be too high. Jensen said that people will trespass
and there will be no wa�r to stop them. NTr. Batterson answered that the only
traffic are the people who live there, and it is a one way road.
_ _ _
Member Nagel asked. if some other owner had it and wanted to o some-
thing with the propert� towa-r.d the River, would you have trouble with
access. NLr. Batterson felt there would be enough lar!d for a street.
It was mentioned that this� is ariother unusual situation,of a division
of two lots into three with a provision of easement for a reasonable
drivewa�r between the two lots. Also, it is ur_usual to have a house facing
the backyard of another propert.y. �llbrecht said there were quite a few
instancesof this alon� the River.
Mr. Batterson was asked about the avai.labilit� of sewer and water
utilities, and he said he had been told there were in and stubbed in b.y
the propert� owners to the South. Engineering Assistant Clark said that
sewer and water was in the street but he was not certain about it being
stubbed in.
The Subcommittee discussed the property to the North and South of �he
proposed plat, noting the size and possible street access.
Schmedeke suggested a cul de sac coming in from the North. Chairman
Jensen agreed and said it would require cooper�.tion from the owners to the
North, and when it would be contemplated, a hearing would be held for the
proposal and NLr. Johnson would be asked to indicate his desire. The only
qualms he had was leaving the street in the front yard.
Clark said there was a difference in elevation between the houses--
one would face the River and one face the street. The difference is about
12 feet of so.
Chairman Jensen rec2.11ed that the motion of the Planning Commission
included the wording that the work of removing that portion of the vacated
street could be done by the City and be assessed as a street improvement,
and this seems to be a relatively logical ��aa;� to �et this work acconplished.
Member I�Tyhra suggested that when Mr. �etterson builds his house,
and has the basement excava.ted, the contractor could take out the paving.
The E�.gineering Assi.stant said a bituminous berm type curb would be
adequate to hold the water. •
�
Plats & Subdivisions -
Streets & Util.ities Subcouimittee
� Chairman Jensen read from the Council minutes of June 5, 1967 the
disposition of this vacation.
MOTION by Na;el, seconded b.y Albrecht, that the Plats & Subdivisions, `
Streets & Utilities Subcommittee approve the preliminary plat, P.S. #67-0�,
Batterson Addition, Donald Batterson, being all that part of Lot 25, Auditor's
Subdivision #23 Revised that lies West of the Westerly right of wa� line
of Riverview Te-rrace. Upon a voice vote, all voting a�re, the motion
carried unanimously.
3. LOT SPLIT REQUEST: L.S. #67-03 Il`�`�IY H. RIIDEL ESTATE BY DONALD I�AMM ATTORNEY:
Parcel 485o sold to Dr. Trezona to be split off for special assessment purposes.
NLr. Lamm gave a re�ume of the situation as follows: This concerns a large
tract of land E�.st of City Hall, approximately 15 acres. A number of easements
have been given to the City of Fridley and a couple b�r condemnation. In recent
years a great man� improv�ments have been made and all special improvements
assessed against the property.
In Januar� 1965 Riedel's sold off a tract about 1.37 acres which includes
a portion of the ea,sement. The portion sold was to Dr. Trezona. The property
was sold and transferred Januar.y ]_965, but his share of the special assessments
are not being a.dded to Dr. Trezona's statement because the lot split has not
been approved. The total tax is �4,560 on the whole estate. None of the
special assessments hd�e been assessed a;ainst the Trezona parcel, and the reason
I am here tonight is to request you gentlemen to approve the lot split so
that the special assessrrients will be charged to the right place. Dr. Trezona
had a survey on it and later a deed �aas drawn. A� the present time I have had
a survey of the tract by Subur�an Engineering because we discovered the
dimensions were off on Dr. Trezona's survey and we are not certain whether or
not it is the top of bottom line.
I don't think that splitting this off ��ill affect the property. I
understand the lot split ordinance states the area is not to be less than one
acre. We do hope within the next �ear to rezone this parcel. I think,
from the favorable location of this propert.y in Fridle�r, the land has tremendous
opportunit�r. We do have in mind bringing in some large development corporation
to develop it. I don't think granting the lot split, in order to cut the special
assessments, will in any wa� cause any harm to the adjacent land owners.
Chairman J�ns�n said that now state law is five acres as the maximum
for lot splits. As fa.r as descriptions are concerned, we have favored lot
splits where they can be done in extremely simple fashion such as a single
sentence t�rpe division. Some very simple description such as East 100 feet of
the North 200 feet has bsen the policy of the subcommittee to allow this sort
of a division without demanding the property owner to go to the further extent
of a plat. In the short time I have been on the committee we have not seen
fit to approve one as complex as this.
Mr. Lamm said thE Trezona parcel was bought for a speczfic purpose. The
North-South line go�s almost to the house lot line, then goes back further
West and then aiong the West side of that house and threE feet �rlest of tYie
garage-t�pe �uilding. Those dimznsions are figured out for a medical clinic-
and off-street parking. .
Reference was made to Pa�e 106 in the coae book, 52.043•
\
�� Plats & Subdivisions - Page L�
� � Streets & Utilities Subcom�ittee Ju_ ne 29� 1967
x Albrecht said the description has been one of the points I brought
forward, that in general, lots with complicated descriptions or anything
over 27,000 square feet should be platted.
Chairman Jensen said that because the majority of inembers of the
Subcommittee are new, the Subcommittee should work on that portion of the
ordinance and try to set up our own thoughts. The remainder.of the proper�y.
will be a more difficult thing than the lot split request. The real purpose
of avoiding long descriptions is that they can easily lead to errors.
Member Schmedeke asked why people are not informed about thi.s before
they buy?
Jensen said this is an unhappy situation and it has existed for years.
a At one time an e�foCourthouseelevelhebuttthefCountyewasonotyable gotdohit.
done at the Coun y
Member Albrecht wondered if the statement about the complexity of
description be applied to this request.
Myhra said then this really is not complex because the lines are parallel.
Jensen said I think it is something we should come to a conclusion and definitely
set a criteria. Looking back at some of the examples in the ordinance, it
violates one line.
Nagel wanted to know about the limitation of size in the ordinance and
why it was put there. Darrel Clark said he thought if the area got larger
than one acre but less than 22 acres, you would have about six parcels and
maybe the authors thought six parcels all described by meter and bounds would
be complicated.
Jensen considered other alternatives to the problem: another approach
would be to proceed with one of the other subdivision methods such as to plat
or registered land survey, told Mr. Lamm he would have to have the cooperation
of Dr. Trezona to proceed. The Engineering Assistant reviewed the history of
the plat and zoning. Jensen continued that Mr. Lamm was proceeding with a
suruey of the entire tract and that when he gets to that point, he should be
quite far along the line of having a registered land survey or auditor's .
subdivision. These subdivisions would n:eet the requirements of the ordinance
in its strictest sense.
Mr. Laimn said he understar.ds that if we came back with a recorded plat
describing this tract sold to Dr. Trezona it would be a proper division. .W�
would prefer not to have to go to the expense of doing that, but we might be
willing to do so. I can envision several years before a plan would be
economical and commercially feasible for the Estate and would not conflict with
the zoning requirements and ideas of the Planning Commission for the use of
the land. It might be 2 or 3 years before an acceptable plan would be obtained.
When Myhra asked for more time to study this request, and asked if
articular reason why it cannot be continued, Mr. Lamm said the
there was any p
hardship is for him to come up again.
Plats & Subdivisions - page 5
Streets & Utilities Subcommittee TtinP �a, iati� -
r. Engineering Assistant Clark said we are going to be requesting th2
� Riedel Estate for an easement to continue the Sth Street South. We have a
utility easenent but not for the street. The reason we are asking at this time
is because the City of Fridley will be building 64th Avenue and Sth Street this
summer. I don't know if it should be considered part of this or not. He
wondered if the Council could split the special assessments without splitting
the lots. It might be within the power of the Council to do so.
Myhra continued that I feel we could allow the lot split, but I am afraid
of setting a precedent, and I would like to postpone this request. Perhaps
the delay would also give Mr. Lamm a chance to investigate further, perhaps
approach the Council to split the assessments without splitting the lot.
MOTION by Myhra, seconded by Nagel, that the Plats & Subdivisions -
Streets & Utilities° Subcommittee postpone the decision regarding the Lot
Split L.S. ��67-03, Emmy H. Riedel Estate by Donald Lamm, of Parcel 4850
. sold to Dr. Trezona to be split off the special assessment purposes until the
meeting of July 20, 1967. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion
carried unanimously.
Mr. Lamm asked if it were necessary to obtain an action from the Sub-
committee to go to the Council. He was told they recommend he study other
means of dividing the property, there is the possibility of splitting the
special assessments, and hope by the meeting of July 20th, we will strive to
make a decision based on your request.
4. DISCUSSION OF THE PROPOSED ROAD PLAN FOR THE COCHRAN, CARLSON, CHIES,
0'BANNON AND SCHERER PROPERTIES: Reworking of plan be Kermit Crouch.
Leonard Cochran and Donald Chies were present.
Kermit Crouch presented a new plan stating he used the concept the
property owners preferred and made the revisions requested by the Subcommittee,
keeping in mind public vehicular traffic needs and outlets. He divided the
area of about 4 sections, the ridge South tapering at Central, the area being
mined, bluffs & plateau, valley & foothills. The new homes would face the
collector street.
Mr. Cochran and Mr. Chies stated they felt this was a better plan than
the ariginal one.
Chairman Jensen wondered if it would be in order to hold a pubLic meeting
at the August 3rd meeting. If Mr. Crouch could have the plan ready before
the meeting, the subcommittee members could look at it before the meeting.
The number of areas, where we would have to ask for something in the way of
someone's compliance of the plan, are very limited.
Mr. Crouch stated he would ad�l lots or modify the plan according to
the suggestion of this meeting. He also stated this meeting is one in excess
of the contract. He was informed that he would not have to be present on the
20th of July, but he should plan to attend the August 3z� meeting.
MOTION by Schmedeke, seconded by Myhra, that the Plats and Subdivisions -
Streets & Utilities Subcommittee continue the proposed plan for the SE4 of
Section 13 until July 20, 1967 at which time Kermit Crouch will have the final
proposed layout ready prior to the meeting, pr.eferably July 17, 1967, and ask
the four major property owners (Carlson, Cochran, Chies, 0'Bannon) to attend the
meeting, and on August 3, 1967 call a public meeting for the balance of the
property owners and the major property owners. Upon a voice vote, all voting
aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Plats & Subdivisons -
�` Streets & Utilities Subcommittee June 29, 1967 Page 6
�' .
S. ROAD STUDY: 69th Avenue to 73rd Avenue, Central Avenue to Highway ��65.
The City Engineer asked the subcommittee to study the above property as
it will be developed Industrial. Chairman Jensen suggested the members take
the opportunity to go up there and look at the area, keeping in mind that
73rd will be a road, one way or another. . ,
ADJOU RNMENT
MOTION by Myhra that the meeting be adjourned at 10:30 P.M. Upon a
voice vote, the motion car.ried.
Respectfully submitted,
Haze1 0'Brian
Recording Secretary