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PL SUBCOM 01/18/1968 - 31055�. �.. PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS- STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCO�IITTEE JANUARY 1$, 1968 PAGE 1 ROLL CALL• The meeting was called to order by Vice Chairman Myhra at 7:35 P.M. Members Present: Nagel, Myhra, Schmedeke, Albrecht Member Absent: Jensen Others Present: Engineering Assistant Clark ORDER OF AGENDA: Inasmuch as the audience present were interested in Item 1, the order of agenda was considered as written. 1. PUBLIC MEETING: RICE CREEK ROAD/CENTRAL AVENUE STUDY: The following names were taken from the Sign In Sheet: R. J. Schneider, Leonard Cochran, Rev. D. Henderson, John Carroll, Ed Bauler, Mike 0'Bannon, D. Miles, Mrs. Irene Skog, Mrs. Ervin Kassow. Mr. and Mrs. Theilmann came in later. Vice Chairman Myhra explained to the audience that this was not a public hearing, but a public meeting. The first thing in looking at this area is that most of the discussion concerned the Western half. At Member Schmedeke's suggestion, the Subcommittee will conduct the discussion in two parts beginning at the Cochran, Chies and Carlson land, which is the Eastexn half. The ma.p, dated 1/15/68, prepared by the Engineering Department incorpora- ting the suggested changes from the original maps by Hodne and Associates, was explained to the people. It was noted the road pattern had been pretty well solidified for some time. Mr. Schneider had asked about the cul de sac off Benjamin Street and wondered if the land would be landlocked. The cul de sac was extended and has been worked in the road design. In the matter of the Theilmann property, in an informa.l discussion they said they have no desire to have a road cross their property at this time and saw no objections in ending the road in a temporary cul de sac. This would be the road pattern until such time in the future that the area would be developed. Mr. Theilmann wondered if a 120 foot road, 50 feet wide, was good planning. He also wondered if it would hamper Mr. Carlson in developing his property. Mr. Theilmann said"it does not bother me as long as I do not have to pay for road improvements or sewer and water. I would not want to pay for something I have no use for at all. I think the plan I presented had greater adaptability than the one you have here tonight." Vice ChaiYman Myhra said it was necessary that the cul de sac abut Mr. Theilmann's property. However, it would be temporary which could mean from D r c_� sY � Subcom Mtg - Januarv 18, 1968 Pa�e 2 five to one hundred years. He then asked Mr. Cochran if he had anything he wished to say on this plan. Mr. Cochran said it was O.K. Mr. Chies and Mr. Carlson were not present. The Engineering Assistant com�ented that changes in the cul de sac can be made at the time the land is platted. Member Nagel suggested the cul de sac could be left in, but a request for a right of way should be shown. Member Schmedeke felt the cul de sac should be extended to the South. Mr. Schneider said the plan was all right now. Mr. Theilmann asked "What are the plans for the future?" Vice Chair- man Myhra said that the land owners (Chies, Carlson, Cochran and 0`Bannon) were interested in developing the land and the Planning Com�nission and the Subco�nittee got involved. As far as plans, we don't have any. Member Schmedeke said that he thought the first thing is to have raads so that lots can be sold. In looking at the next section Myhra said we have made changes for the benefit of everyone. The Skogs expressed concern of having a road run through their backyard too close to their house and this has been corrected. Mr. Carrol said he was in agreement with the plan. Mr. 0`Bannon was in agreement except for a couple of minor things. Mrs. Skog said she was in agreement. Schmedeke was still concerned about the road down the steep hill. Mr. 0'Bannon said it will depend on how the lots are laid out but there should be an easement for water and sewer at the least. Myhra said that perhaps professional advice might be needed on the kind of traffic that could be anticipated. Mr. 0'Bannon asked if they were going to be able to hook to the main for sewer and water and was told that would be no problem. Then he asked if the storm sewer would go out on the County road. He was told that the storm sewer would drain to Rice Creek. Schmedeke said he realized the road coming off to Central would be a steep road, but he felt there should be one coming from this area to Central Avenue. The Engineering Assistant was asked at what point would the Engineer- ing Department be called in and he said they would have to go into the street design, storm sewer and sanitary sewer when a preliminary plat was offered. Mr. Bauler said the plan looked good to him. Mr. Kassow said the plan �a.s fine. Mrs. Miles said the plan was fine as long as the road did not go on their property. P& S S& U Subcom Mt� - January 18, 1968 Page 3_ I At this point Vice Chairman Myhra read the comanunication from the Peoples Church dated Januaxy 17, 1968, and Rev. Henderson was asked if he would like to say anything in addition to the letter. He said "I do not know what more we can say. We do not really know what the property can be projected to. I suggested we might want to build a parochial school. We appreciate the land, our surround- ings and the neighbors. It seems every little wooded patch of a piece of ground has to be chopped up and made into building sites and little by little, we are rushing along to remove any of these desirable spots that are left. We have not been in a hurry to develop the property. We have offered the privilege to nego- tiate to sell the lots. The North/South road would be acceptable as we would still retain the privacy on Central Avenue and retain our privacy. This is what I asked you to consider two weeks ago". Member Albrecht arrived at 8:05 P.M. Rev. Henderson said they appreciate the efforts and the friendliness of the neighbors and appreciate the good will of the Subcomanittee. We can only take the position which would affect us. We know our driveway is steep, but we like it the way it is, and object to the location of the access to Central Avenue. Mr. 0'Bannon said he was involved in the property to the East also. He had nothing to add more than what he said before. I do think I am opposed to the ' access to Central Avenue where it comes in. The proposed plan gives you better homesites. Rev. Henderson continued "We have expressed a willingness on our part to open this land by sale. We have considered that if the value would be market- able to the developer to the East, then we would be open to selling both the home and lots so that we would not be a barrier to the development. Mrs. Skog asked if there hadn't been a road between her property and Morley's at one ti.me. Rev. Henderson said that in some of the local plans there was a half road on his side, but it is not recorded in Anoka. Schmedeke said the Subcos�ittee did a lot of work. We have the plan cut down to a pretty decent and useable plan and we did not step on anyone. I think we should analyze the Henderson situation. Some of the people who want to develop could go ahead without the cul de sac used by Morley. In this plan we have been fair with the developer and most of the roads axe on the land of the people who are going to develop. We took the roads off the land of the people who are not ready to develop. The Theilmanns wanted to know if multiple dwellings would be requested and when. Vice Chairtnan Myhra replied that, as far as the Subcom�nittee as a group can foresee, it would be single family dwellings. When an area is developed at one time with single family dwellings, it usually stays that way. It is when an area is developed piecemeal that a multiple dwelling probably would be requested. Member Nagel commented that he was sure no matter how this plan could have been drawn up, someone was not going to be satisfied. He thought it was whittled down to an extend that we have reduced it to a minimum and have a plan that will do justice to the area. Member Albrecht said he went along with Nagel and Schmedeke. The plan seems to be satisfactory to most of the people on the East. The West end has small P& S-S & U Subcom. Mtg. - January 18, 1968 Page � problems. His first thoughts were to exelude this part of it, however, it seems there has to be an entrance or outlet on Central Avenue. The most desirable and most practical seems to be the route we have chosen. Myhra asked if the outlet on Central Avenue was necessary. When the area is filled with residences, would you say there is a need for an outlet on Central Avenue. Then we would have to think in terms of a plan that would provide an outlet. We have an area down to the South boundary of Mr. Scherer's property. We are talking about the road that runs around the site across Skog's property. We, as a group, looked between Morley's home and Scherer property and there just is not room for a street there, also one on Scherer's property and the other on the church property. There would seem pretty strong reasons why the group talked about the church property. We need a 60 foot right of way. The other thing we looked at was the terrain. The half next to the Scherer property is pretty steep. The only objection that we have to the road on the church property is some concern for safety. The other objection is that as long as this property was developed for privacy, are we going in and changing the concept that someone has set? This is the strongest objection as far as he was concerned. The Subcommittee represents no indivi- dual person in the City, but rather works for what is best for the City. If we find it necessary for a road to go out to Central Avenue, there should not be a loss economically to the owner. Mrs. Miles said that she did not worry about a loss of privacy, but of the assessments. Rev. Henderson said the road puts him down to a 50 foot rear yard. Once you put laterals in, etc., it will cut me down to 50 feet. Then you will say you want to cut my hill and I will be exposed even more. It knocks us off of our original purpose. Myhra said the East/West road out to Central Avenue is still there. These r.oads are not hardened facts. They can change as platting is done. The closer we get, the more it appears our only problem is the outlet to Central Avenue. Rev. Henderson added that until such time that something is worked out, they will'be consis�tent in denial. Albrecht said in light of that, perhaps we should give some more thought to the North/South road and exclude the outlet entirely to Central Avenue. Vice Chairman Myhra said if we think that there should be a road out to Central Avenue, then he believed we are duty bound to make a recommenda- tion. It would not be the final legal action. We say this is a temporary thing, that the road, at some ti.me, would have to be here. Mr. Theilmann asked how this would be worked out economically. What will it cost the City. The Engineering Assistant replied that the City itself is not platting your land, we are not legally bound to, nor legally can do it. We are just providing a service to help you plat your land. P& S S& U Subcom Mtg - January 18, 1968 Page 5 Mr. Theilmann said if you lay aut a temporary road through his property, he would have a hard time to sell or build. The Engineering Assistant said that if he, or anyone else, wanted to develop his property, this plan would be taken out of the file. If you want to change it and suggest something else, you will have to show that the plan you want to use will serve the people and you as well as the one pre- viously adopted. We have not studied the economics. Myhra camanented that the larger the property, the more leeway you have in planning. It is obviously one of the problems of living in an urban area. Mr. 0'Bannon complimented the Subcommaittee by saying he thought this committee has done a fine job and a lot of work last year. Mr. Schmedeke said he would like to delay action for a couple of weeks in order to give the Scherer, Morely and Rev. Henderson's situation another thought. Also the issue of the temporary cul de sac reviewed. He said that we can work on this plan for another two weeks and then decide what is going to be the thinking. It seems most of the people are pretty well satisfied. Myhra, in referring to Mr. Morley's letter, said he had expressed himself and didn't think we would have to wait for him to return from Alaska, as he ' said he would favor any plan that would give him a chance to develop. This tentative plan is better for Mr. Morley than the original one. Nagel said he wanted to see it put through, but did not think we should delay it either. However, he would wait two weeks. Albrecht, speaking to Rev. Henderson asked, "Do you feel you have pre- sented to us all possibilities open for the development of your property? Do you see a reason for delay on your part? Rev: Henderson answered that the only way out is if someone would come along and purchase the whole package. I like Fridley. We cannot see giving 250 feet for a road sixty feet wide. It would take the nicest lot we have. We are not ready. I don't think it reasonable. I don't think there is much more than we can suggest. Vice Chairman Myhra added that he thought if there were some possibility of something developing in two weeks, this study could be held over, but he didn't think it would be fair to have the people come out again in two weeks if we didn't expect to make any changes. Schmedeke said I t�s�n`t think we are going to make any changes that will affect that and I don't think the people should have to come back. I would ask the people to come to the Planning Commission and Council meetings to follow the plan through. MOTION by Albrecht, seconded by Nagel, that the Plats & Subdivisions- Streets & Utilities Subcouanittee recammend passing the Rice Creek Road/Central Avenue Plan dated January 15, 1968 to the Planning Cou¢nission with a favorable recommendation and with the stipulation that future action on it be brought to the attention of the people involved before such action is taken. Upon a voice vote, Albrecht and Nagel voting aye, Schmedeke voting nay, the motion carried. P& S-S & U Mt�. - Januarv 18, 1968 Page 6 The audience were told that this item would go to the Planning Co�.i.ssion on January 25th. 2. STREET STUD�Y SPECIFICATIONS: Inasmuch as the Chairman, who was the author of the study, was absent, the members felt they should wait until he was present. MOTION by N�,gle, seconded by Schmedeke, that Item No. 2, Street Study Specifications, be postponed until the next meeting on February 15, 1968. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. ADJO�[TR1�NT • There being no further busi.ness, Vice Chairman Myhra adjourned the meeting at 9:30 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Hazel 0'Brian Recordi.ng Secretary