PL SUBCOM 04/06/1971 - 31088/
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PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS-
STREETS & UT�LITIES SUBCONIMITTEE MEETING APRIL g, 1971 PAGE 1
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 P.M. by Chairman Schmedeke.
ROLL CALL •
Members Present: Crowder, Engdahl, Schmedeke, Pierce
Member Absent: Meissner
1. LOT SPLIT REQUEST: L.S. ��71-04, BROOKVIEW INVESTMENT COMPANY BY VIRGIL
HERRICK. Part of Lots 2 and 3, Auditor's Subdivision No. 59. To pro-
vide a new building site off 63rd Avenue.
Mr. Virgil Herrick, representing Brookview Investment Company, was
present. He stated that his group bought this property and decided to build
an office on the land facing University Avenue. At the time of the purchase,
the property belonged to one person. He had been told that at one time the
land was two parcels and this accounts for the "T" shaped property. In order
to construct a second office building and get a mortgage for it, the land
would have to be split, They felt it was a logical split because the present
building fronts on University Avenue and the proposed building would front on
63rd Avenue. One copy of the certificate of survey showed the entire parcel
and.the second copy showed the piece on University Avenue and the legal descrip-
tions were on each survey.
Darrel Clark com�ented that both lots exceed the minimum requirements of
this type of zoning which is C-2S, general shopping areas, and requires either
200 feet frontage or 25;000 sq. feet. We have here adequate square footage
but it is a little bit short on frontage. The ordinance requires only one of
the two. Both parcels have access. The legal descriptions are a little bit
long but are not xegular metes and bounds descriptions. If there were more
lots involved with similar descriptions, we probably would ask that the land
be platted. The Subco�anittee should consider the lot sizes as far as the Code
is concerned and the descriptions which are a little bit lengthy but not too
much so.
Mr. Schmedeke read the following from Fridley Code:
45.103. Lot Requirements & Setbacks
Yards, lot sizes, and open spaces sha11 be as xequired in this section
for buildings hereafter erected in the C-1, C-1S, C-2 and C-2S Districts.
1. Lot Area
A lot area of not less than 25,000 square feet is required for
one main building.
2. Lot Width
A lot width of not less than 200 feet i� required at the required
setbacks.
From Ordinance No. 441 dated 11/3/69
� Plats & Suhdivi.sions-Streets & Utilities- April C�, 1971 Page 2
Amending 45.103 relating to lot area and lot width requirement:
l. Lot Area
A lot area of not less than 25,000 square feet is required for
one main building, however, if the lot width for a lot is a
minimum of 200 feet, the lot area requirement of 25,000 square
feet is waived, and no minimum lot area is required.
2. Lot Width
A lot width of not less than 200 is required at the required
setback, however, if the 1ot area for a lot is a minimum of
25,000 square feet, the lot width requirement of 200 feet is
waived and no minimum lot width is required.
From Ordinance �459 dated 6/15/70
Because of the terrain, there is a lift pump at the street for
the sanitary sewer to serve the present building. Darrel Clark said he did
not think a second pump would be needed as Mr. Herrick had said that when the
plans were drawn f or the present building, the utilities were planned for
both lots.
Mr. Herrick asked about the storm sewer and the Engineering Assistant
e�lained that the starm sewer manhole was at the southwest corner of Moon
Plaza.
1�TION by Crowder, seconded by Engdahl, that the P1ats & Subdivisions-
Streets & Uti1i ties 5ubcommittee recommend to tf�e Planning Commission approval
of the lot spli t request, L.S. #71-04, Brookview Invesfinent Company by Virgil
Herrick with the description of that portion of the property as contained in
the 5uburban Engineering Document written November 17, 1967 showing the
en tire parcel and a second document showing the piece of properfy facing
Uni versity Avenue. Upon a voi ce vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried
unanimously.
2. CONTINUED REVIEW OF EXISTING PLAN FOR STREET I.1�iY0UT NORTH OF OSBORNE ROAD:
Chairman Schmedeke said he visited the area and found it was larger than
he had expected. He felt the area would be a hard one to drain and to install
sanitary sewer.
Darrel Clark explained.the area to be discussed included Osborne Road on
the South 85th Avenue on the North, University Avenue on the East and East
River Road on the West. Referring to the crossover on University Avenue and
85th Avenue, a signal has been proposed for that intersection and the Agree-
ment has been drawn. There are existing signals at Osborne Road and University
Avenue and East River Road and Osborne Road. There are no additional signals
proposed in 1971 for East River Road.
Referring to crossovers, there are three streets that go to East River
Road, namely 79th, 83rd and Osborne Road.
Pointing out the rail.road crossings at the present time, Darrel Clark
said there were crossings at 77th Avenue (grade crossing with stop sign and
possible elimination),.one North of 79th Avenue, Ironton and 85th Avenue.
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Plats & Subdivi.sions-Streets & Utilities - April 6, ].971 Page 3
The plan ca11s for five railroad crossings: one at 85th, one at 83rd,
one at 79th,=:.one-at 77th and one at Osborne Road and that consideration could
be given to elimination of the 77th crossing when the 79th is put in. It was
noted all of the present railroad crossings_existed.before the incorporation
of the Village of Fridley. _We are not increasing crossovers, but moving two
of them.
The area on the West side of the tracks is pretty well developed. Part
of the area on the East side of the tracks is platted and about 30% of the
land developed. There is no plat between Main Street, University Avenue from
79th to 85th Avenues, except for the golf driving range which was platted as
University Go1f Estates. This plat dedicated a 50 foot service drive with loop-
back, 33 feet for 81st Avenue and 30 feet on Main Street for roads.
In speaking of service drives, the Engineering Assistant said perhaps
these service drives are not the answer. The loopbacks meet the area require-
ments of industrial zoned lots as they are 1'� acres. However, they seem to
be ideal sites for filling stations, and the gasoline comp�nies are willing
to pay a good price for the land. We seem to lose sight of the fact that
a loopback can be used for something besides filling stations, such as office
building, restaurant or grocery convenience store.
In the area of this study, a possible solution wou�d be to put in a
North/South road down the middle b etween Main Street and University Avenue.
While the buildings may face University, they could have access at the rear
of the lots. However, he said he could-not point_out any example where it
has been done.
Mr. Schmedeke commented that co�ercial would like a service drive so
that the business could be seen from the highway and have access to the front
of their business.
Darrel Clark said that the reason for the detachment is to eliminate
cars stacking up in front of a service drive entrance. If a service drive is
put in adjacent to University Avenue, they would have a Mississippi Street
problem with cars backing up in front of the service drive entrance.
Mr. Schmedeke suggested the Commission should consider one item at a
time and that the railroad crossing should be taken up first. They know
there is going to be a crossing at 85th Avenue with flashing lights and arms.
When the apartment complex on 79th and University is finished, the Ironton
grade crossing would be moved to 79th. We have had from the railroad a letter
whe�eon they state they will not oppose the City be£ore the Railroad Warehouse
Commission for a request that crossings be placed at 79th and 83rd Avenues.
The City had requested these crossings about 1965 and 1966 and was turned
down.
MOTION b� Crowder, seconded .by Engdahl, that fhe Planning Commission
make the following recommenda tions to Council: Additional railroad crossings
should go in at 79th and 83rd Avenues and reconsider eliminating the cros-
sing at 77th Avenue at the time 79th Avenue crossing is opened. The crossing
on the John Hayes property and Ironton should be eliminated. Upon a voice
vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
- Plats & Suhdivisi.ons-Streets & Utilities - April 6, 1971 Page 4 I
The next item was Signals. Chairman Schmedeke said there were two signals
on University Avenue -- the one on 85th was ardered in and the other was at
Osborne Road. When 83rd Avenue is developed, hope£ully it will go from Univer-
sity Avenue to East River Road. To the East of University, which is Spring
Lake Park, 83rd Avenue is only two blocks long. 81st Avenue, however, goes
through to Highway No. 65 in Spring Lake Park.
Mr. Crowder commented that it would be hard to know where to put signals
before the land is developed. Darrel Glark said that a criteria could be
considered such as the need, car counts, and the State feels there=should be
a count of 3,000 cars a day to warrant installing a signal.
MOTION by Pierce, seconded by Crowder, that the Plats & Subdi visions-
Streets & Utilities Subcommittee suqgest to the Planning Commission that an
additional signal be considered at either 81st or 83rd Avenue on Uni versity
Avenue depending upon the developing of the land. Upon a voice vote, all
voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
The Engineering Assistant explained that on Eas.t River Road at 79th
Avenue, after the apartments have been compl�ted, a traffic signal will no
doubt be installed. 79th Avenue is a State Aid road and East River Road a
County Road. Where 83rd Avenue intersects East River Road, it was felt 83rd
Avenue should_be dropped to meet Kimball Street. In the case of 85th Avenue,
if it were economically feasible to pull it up to be opposite of 85th Lane.
in Coon Rapids, why not do it?
MOTION by Crowder, seconded by Engdahl,. that the Plats & Subdivisions-
Streets & Utilities 5ubcommittee recommend to the Planning Commission the
following: 1) Regarding traffic light pattern for East River Road= Consider
the first traffic light at 79th Avenue and East River Road. 2) Intersection
of 83rd Avenue moving South to be opposite Janesville. 3) Move 85th Avenue
jogging to meet 85th Lane in Coon Rapids. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimously.
Regarding the suggestion of the vacation of 78th Avenue between Beech,
Elm and Main, the Subcommittee felt there would be no advantage changing the
grid pattern of the area. The street between Beech and Elm, they felt,
should be improved on a temporary basis as long as the people are using it.
This would help keep the area clean.
MOTION by Pierce, seconded by Crowder, that the Plats & 5ubdivisions-
Streets & UtiZi ties Subcommittee recommend to-the P.Zanning Commission that
78th Avenue from Beech to Main NOT be vacated and recommend a temporary sur-
face from Beech to Elm Streets. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion
carried unanimously.
Darrel Clark explained that Parcel 3600 at present has one fee owner.
University Go1f Estates plat is located on 81st Avenue and University Avenue.
There are two loopback islands, one at 81st and one at 83rd. Quite a bit of
right of way has been obtained from this parcel. The service drive and loop-
backs are strictly for business. An alternative was suggested to put a street
down the middle (North/South) of Parcel 3600, but this may not be practical
because commercial property needs a service road on a main highway.
-� �lats & Subdivi.s.i.ons-Streets & Utilities - April 6, 1971 _ Page 5 I
MOTION by Crowder, seconded by Engdahl, that the service drive on
University Avenue between Osborne Road and 79th Avenue should have a minimum
of 1� acres for the loopback, that there be a detached service drive North
of 83rd Avenue, and to discourage a service drive between 79th and 83rd
Avenues, but if access is needed, it be along University Avenue rather than
the back of the lots facing University. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye,
the motion carried unanimously.
MOTION by Crowder, seconded by Pierce, that the P1ats & Subdivisions-
5treets & Utilities 5ubcommittee recommend to the Planning Commission that
they would like to see as many of the ut.ilities brought out adjacent to Univer-
sity Avenue as possible so that the more valuable property wi11 bear the
assessments. There is a possibility o� land adjacent going tax forfeit if
the land is of lower value than the assessment. Upon a voice vote, a1Z voting
aye, the motion carried unanimously.
ADJOURNMENT :
MOTION by Crowder, seconded by Engdahl, that the Subcomir�ittee meeting
of April 6, 1971 be adjourned at 9:45 P.M.
Respectfully submitted
Hazel 0`Brian
Recording Secretary