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PL SUBCOM 06/02/1971 - 31090�, PLATS & SUBDIVISIONS- STREETS & UTILITIES SUBCOMI�IITTEE MEETING JUNE 2, 1971 PAGE 1 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Schmedeke at 7:38 P.M. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Meissner, Engdahl, Schmedeke, Pierce, Crowder Members Absent: None Others Present: Engineering Assistant Darrel Clark 1. PROPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S. ��71-02, BRIARDALE, BY RICHARD MILLER HOMES, INC.: Replat of Lots l, 2 and 3, Block 3 and Outlot No. 1 and Outlot No. 2, Cochran's Addition. 2. VACATION RE UEST: SAV 4�71-03, RICHARD MILLER HOMES, INC.: Vacation af McKinley Street South of South line of Rice Creek Road and a 6 foot utility and-t�ainage easement described as South 6 feet of Block 3, Cochran's Addition. Mr. William Jensen of Suburban Engineering, Inc. and Mr. Richard Miller of Richard Miller Homes were present. Chairman Schmedeke opened the meeting saying that Mr. Jensen was the former Chairman of this Subcommittee, and he would ask him to explain the request. Mr. Jensen stated that the plat is just one row of single family lots off the City Limits boundary between Fridley and New Brighton. This location has been a gravel pit for many years with Lenny Cochran the most recent operator. There have been many controversies about the operati,on of the gravel pits and, ultimately, most of the difficulties were resolved. Some months ago, he con- tinued, Mr. Miller purchased all of the land owned by Mr. Cochran incl.uding the platted lots and outlots. Referring to the topography on the preliminary plat, Mr. Jensen said it is a fair representation of the topog as it exists at this time. It was done a year ago for Mr. Cochran at five foot intervals. The amount of vertical change on this property runs fram 902 on up to upper levels at about 945 or 946. It is a difficult piece of ground to develop. Mr. Jensen continued that the street on the West line, which has been more or less designated as a collector street in the overall study done some years ago by the Subcommittee and Planning Commission from Rice Creek Road to the South, was maintained on this plat. The road on the South end of the plat connects with the cu1 de sac from the property to the South and exits on Stinson Boulevard. He pointed out on the preliminary plat where 62nd and 61st Avenues would be located. There is a proposed plat to the East and South of Rice Creek Road which indicates a cul de sac facing out to the West. The inter- vening lot, which is narrow and deep, does not need an access and it is ques- tionable at this time if the people who live there would be interested in a road. The petitioner could provide for a turn around in the interim if it is deemed necessary by the City. • Plats & Subs -Str & Util Mtg - June 2, 1971 Page 2 The turn around would be on the front ten feet of the second lot. When the road would go through, the turn around would be automatically taken out. There are some corner lots that do not meet the City Platting Ordinance. They would have liked to find more width for these lots, but it wasn't possible. Mr. Miller has plans for narrow lots without requiring variances. This would not pose a problem as f ar as proper use of the lots is concerned. Chairman Schmedeke commented that most of the property goes up and down rather than on the level. Mr. Jensen said there will be a substantial amount of fill placed in the very lowest hole. They were not talking about any fills in excess of ten feet and perhaps somewhat less than that. This will deviate some from the original Rice Creek plan. The position of the cul de sac was an absolute necessity because of the drainage. Darrel Clark said that the basic problems will be to design the utilities. It is really an engineering problem. We are just going to have to work with the petitioner to get drainage. The City of Fridley is not ready to say these grades are O.K. or should be higher or lower. The corner lots are less than the required 80 feet. Chairman Schmedeke said he was in the area and tried to locate where 62nd Avenue would be. Mr. Jensen said there will be assessments for storm sewer as the water from the people who own the deep lot runs through this plat. There has never been an assessment for storm sewer in this area to his knawledge. The land to the West is not platted. It is owned by Mr. Carlson of Park Construction. There is water and sewer on Rice Creek Road and Stinson Boulevard. Mr. Miller said they use an"L" shaped plan for the corner lots, and can build without having to go for a variance. Darrel Clark said that unless the vacation of McKinley Street is approved, it would be impossible to record the plat. The grades of the land make it difficult to use a normal 20 acres for four blocks and would lose more land by placing the street down the middle of the plat. The City is worried about elevations. Mr. Jensen said he felt their plan would work. It will take some coopera- tion and coordination but what the plat has indicated is feasible. The grades along 61st Avenue are 930 to 945 and is the established grade of the road going off to the South. �here wi�.l be walk out b aseme�ats on these lots and terraced down, and tuck under ga�ages. Utilities are sort of a standard thing. Easement between houses for drainage. Mr. Jensen was asked about houses on Stinson -- any problem matching up with them? He said there would be no problem. The Subcommittee felt they woul.d like to spend another evening on this request and to walk the site. Mr. Crowder noted the street at the West of the plat was just a half street. He was informed there is a half street on the other side which has � Plats & Subs -Str & Util Mtg - June 2, 1971 Page 3 not been dedicated yet. If the people would not agree to dedicate their half, the City would have to condemn and the cost of the condemnation would become part of the cost of the improvements. However, it is possible the awners of this land may have been waiting for the land to be developed and would cooperate. Darrel Clark said the City has been working on the storm sewer for this area. Mr. Miller probably would have the City put in a partial storm sewer system and most of the assessments would go to him. Mr. Miller felt the topog would be much more interesting when the area is finished and the homes are built on ground which is rolling rather than flat. The Engineering Assistant said that the deepest cut for the storm sewer would be Rice Creek Road, and there probably would be an additional cost. The cost for 1.00 square feet is approximately $8.00 per 100 square feet. The storm sewer boundary would be from Gardena to Rice Creek Road and from Central Avenue to City limits. What Council is doing now on new plats in this district is to ask for a storm sewer escrow. In this way, Council hopes the home owner would not be burdened with heavy assessments after moving in. Mr. Meissner asked that the land requirements for corner lots be checked for the next meeting. Chairman Schmedeke asked that each member of the Subcommittee receive a copy of the original plan in the Rice Creek Road Study. MOTION by Pierce, seconded by Meissner, that the Subcommittee table until June 16, 1971 the proposed preliminary plat, P.S. #71-02, Briardale, by Richard Miller Homes, Inc. being a replat of Lots 1, 2 and 3, Block 3, and Outlot No. 1 and Outlot No. 2, Cochran's Addition and the vacation request, SAV #71-03, by Richard Miller Homes, Inc. vacating McKinley Street 5outh of the South line of Ri ce Creek Road and a 6 foot utility and drainage easement described as the South 6 feet of Block 3, Cochran's Addition, with the members meeting on the site at 7:00 P.M. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Darrel Clark suggested the members wear boots: 3. LOOP BACKS: Because the Subcommittee is concerned with streets, Chairman Schmedeke asked them to consider the problem loop backs are presenting. He felt if a street has a loop back, that the cars not be given direct access on to the main thoroughfare. For example, if a loop back were on Mississippi Street, the cars would not be allo�wed to go directly on to Mississippi. He felt the White Knight Car Wash on 73rd Avenue and University Avenue was a good example of what the City should be attempting to do. He thought this type of ingress and egress might attempt to slow down the service station developing a bit. Mr. Meissner referred to Bob's Produce where access is immediately onto Osborne Road. The question is how is the problem controlled. Darrel Clark commented one way would be to put a median preventing left turns. He did not believe if this control could be part of the ordinance, but it could be made a practice. If a street is put in, and the owner is assessed for it, one can hardly tell him he can't use it or prevent him from l ' Plats & Subs - Str & Util M:tg - June 2, 1971 Page 4 using it. Mr. Crowder said that somewher� along the line, the loop b acks are bad. The Subcomanittee could work towards adopting a policy to help alleviate the situation. MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Engdahl, that the item of Loop Backs be put on the Agenda of the June 16, 1971 meeting. Upon a voice vote, aIZ voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. ADJOURNMENT : MOTION by Meissner, seconded by Pierce, that the P1ats & Subdivisions- 5treets & Utilities Subcommittee be adjourned at 8:40 P.M. Upon a voice vote, aIl voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Respectfully submitted Hazel 0'Brian Recording Secretary