HRA 12/10/1992 - 29637r^�
CITY OF FRID�EY
JOINT HOIIBING & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY
AND CITY COIINCIL MEETING, DECEMBER 10� 1992
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CALL TO ORDER:
Chairperson Commers called the December 10, 1992, Housing &
Redevelopment Authority minutes to order at 7:35 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Larry Commers, Virginia Schnabel, John Meyer,
Duane Prairie, Jim McFarland
Members Absent: None
Others Present: William Burns, Executive Director of the HRA
Barbar.a Dacy, Community Development Director
Rick Pribyl, Finance Director
Paul Hansen, Staff Accountant
Dick Larson, Deputy Chief and Fire Marshall
Pat Wolfe, Section 8 Housing Coordinator
William Nee, Mayor
Dennis Schneider, Councilmember
�, Steve Billings, Councilmember
Ed Fitzpatrick; Councilmember
Nancy J. Jorgenson, Councilmembe�-at-Large
Lowell Demars, Asst. Fire Chief, Columbia Hts.
APPROVAL OF NOVEMBER 12. 1992. HOUSING & REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
MINUTES:
MOTION by Mr. Meyer, seconded by Mr. McFarland, to approve the
November 12, 1992, Housing & Redevelopment Authority minutes as
written.
IIPON A VOICL VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CBAIRPERSON COMMERB DECLAR�D
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
1. CONTINUE DISCU5SION ON RECONII++lENDED HOUSING PROGRAMS:
Ms. Dacy stated that the reason for the joint meeting is to discuss
two of the four recommended housing program: the rental inspection
program and the single family rehab program. The City Council
reviewed staff's recommendations at the end of October, and the HRA
has reviewed the housing program recommendations over the last two
months. Both the Council and the HRA board had specific concerns
about two out of the 4-5 programs staff had recommended.
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HOIIBIN(� & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG., DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAaE 2
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Ms. Dacy stated staff is prepared to present the Council and the
HRA with more information to follow up on both boards' concerns.
Guestspeakers and resource people have been invited to help the
HRA and Council discuss and resolve these issues. As they go
through each issue, she has prepared an outline of discussion
points to help the Council and HRA try to resolve their concerns.
Ms. Dacy stated she would start with the rental inspection issue.
The HI2A had a lot specific questions about the rental inspection
program. She stated staff has invited Dick Larson, Deputy Chief
and Fire Marshall, and Pat Wolfe, Section 8 Housing Coordinator,
to summarize their work experiences and to specifically address
some of the HRA's comments. Staff has also invited Lowell Demars,
an inspector from Columbia Heights, who is implementing the rental
inspection program very similar to the one that staff is suggesting
for the City of Fridley.
Ms. Dacy stated she has also prepared a brief inemo on the City of
Crystal which has initiated the same type of program. She has more
information about fee schedules regarding the annual'licensing and
how much it would take in fees to cover inspection costs.
Ms. Dacy stated staff would like to follow up on the concerns that
the Council and HRA had about what they can do in conjunction with
,.-� the rental inspection program to establish a rental rehab for the
multiple family owners.. •
Mr. Commers stated he believes there is a real fundamental issue
here regarding the rental inspection program, and that is whether
or not it is appropriate to give this type of responsibi-lity to
the HRA. By that, he means the fundamental authority that the City
has and the fundamental responsibility to do the inspections. The
Fridley HRA has never acted as an operating type of body in the
past. He believed that if the City Council feels there is a high
priority for the rental inspection program, then the Council should
look at whether it should be responsible to fund the program and
take care of it.
Mr. Commers stated that in the past, the HRA has discussed whether
or not, because of potential conflicts, the HRA should have a
separate executive director and separate legal counsel. As the
budget has grown, the HRA has discussed whether or not they should
have their own staff people. In the past, the HRA has always
rej ected that, but it comes down to the fundamental issue as to
what.is the real charge to the HRA and what is the City's real
responsibility for the different functions that take place? The
policing and code violations have always been the City's
responsibility, as well as zoning and other types of housing-
related issues. This has to be worked out irrespective of the
program, the nature of the program, and how it should be designed.
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HOIIBING & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG., DECEMBER 10. 1992 - PAGE 3
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Mr. Billings stated that from his perspective, he agreed with Mr.
Commers. He stated this discussion would be better served if they
wait until the Mayor gets to the meeting. He agrees with Mr.
Commers that, fundamentally, the inspection is a function of the
City rather than the HRA. If the rental inspection program is
going to be done in conjunction with a rehab program, then maybe
it is better done by an HRA inspector rather than a City inspector,
because then the people might be more willing to go along with the
program.
Mr. Dick Larson stated the rental code has been around since the
middle 1970's as Ordinance 220. These are the guidelines they use
for inspections. Originally, there was a person who did rental
inspections. When this person left the City, the rental
inspections were divided between departments. The Fire Department
got the interior and the Code Enforcement Officer in the Community
Development Department got the exterior.
Mr. Larson stated the Fire Department gets into the buildings in
the common areas of all rental and commercial properties by Fire
Code. They do not go into individual apartments under Fire Code.
The ordinance was generally set up to aid the tenants against
unscrupulous landlords, but the Code works both directions. He
has been subpoenaed to court for both tenants and landlords.
Mr. Larson stated they are trying to inspect 10� of the units, but
they have not had the manpower to do that. Last year, Jon Thompson
from the Engineering Department was lent to the rental inspection
program for the winter months. �Mr. Thompson inspected about 500
units. Otherwise, the only inspections they are able to do right
now is through complaints. He can get into a unit in one of three
ways:. the tenant invites him in, the landlord invites him in, or
with a search warrant. He has only had to get three search
warrants in the last 13 years. Tenants and landlords are generally
very cooperative.
Mr. Larson stated that he had some information on rental
inspections for the last two years. In 1991, they had a total of
4,038 licensed individual rental units in the City. In 1991, they
handled 201 complaints. In looking at the complaint list, he
picked out four of the top complaint apartment buildings. Out of
201.complaints, the top four owners had 48 complaints. Those four
owners own 127 units which is 3.1� of the total 4,038 units. . The
48 complaints were 24% of the total .complaints.
Mr. Larson stated that since Mr. Thompson has been making
inspections and the.y have been able to be a little tougher on the
landlords and tenants, in 1992, with 4,038 units, they had 137
complaints. The top four owners had 19 complaints so they dropped
the total complaints dotnm 13.8� from 1991.
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80IISING & REDEVEIAPMENT AIITHORITY MTG., DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE 4
Mr. Prairie asked what are the typical complaints Mr. Larson
receives.
Mr. Larson stated that he had received a complaint from the
landlord at Springbrook where tenants had severely trashed an
apartment. He had to declare the unit unfit for human habitation.
He has only had to do that three times. �
Ms. Jorgenson asked what kind of compliance does Mr. Larson get
with violations.
Mr. Larson stated there are no outstanding complaints. All
violations have been resolved. He follows up on all violations
until they are completed.
Mr. Commers stated that of the 13? complaints in 1992 and 201
complaints in�1991, how many of those complaints necessitated court
action?
Mr. Larson stated there have been two court actions. He stated
that the judges do not understand rental codes and don't consider
these violations very serious.
Mr. Commers asked if these inspections also involve Section 8
inspections.
Mr. Larson stated he does not do Section 8 rental inspections.
Pat Wolfe does those. However, they do work together and share
information with each other.
Mr. Larson stated he has seen a big improvement by having a part-
time inspector working four months.
Councilmember Jorgenson stated Nlinneapolis has a special Housing
Court. Did that require special legislation?
Ms. Dacy stated, yes, it did. She stated it is specific to
Hennepin and Ramsey Counties. When staff talked to City Prosecutor
Carl Newquist, he said there would have to be a state law change
in order for Anoka County to establish a housing court.
Mr. Larson stated staff has discussed the license fees, and he
cannot see charging the landlord with a nice building and who keeps
it nice the same fee as the slum landlord. They should be able to
penalize the.poor managers and landlords so it gives them some
incentive to fix up their buildings.
Mr. Commers asked Mr. Larson what he believes is the main issue.
Is it City-wide and is there an identifiable problem? What•is the
real issue or problem of enforcement?
80USING & REDEVELOPMENT AIIT80RITY MT(3., DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAG1E 5
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Mr. Larson stated the problem is they just do not have enough man-
power to get out and make the inspections. If they could inspect
at least 1/4-1/2 of the total rental units.every year, a lot of the
minor complaints would be caught with the inspection.
Mr. Meyer stated the City is gettinc�.the most complaints from the
multiple family buildings. The fees should be higher for multiple
family buildings than for single family buildings.
Ms. Dacy stated there are two sources o� information on fee
schedules:
1. One source is from other communities that have recently
re-evaluated their fees or are doing this program.
2. The other source is that the Finance Department and the
City has hired Publicorp, Inc., to analyze all the
current charges in the City. That report should come
out in January. The City Council will receive and
evaluate that report.
Ms. Dacy stated staff has analyzed other community fees
(Bloomington, Crystal, and Brooklyn Park) in order to relate to
the amount of work they are currently spending on the rental
,�-� inspection program. She stated she had taken their rates and
applied them to the Fridley units (single family, duplexes,
triplexes, and multiples), and came up with a potential amount to
give the HRA an idea of a range. Based on the fees charged by
Crystal, the highest amount Fridley would raise would be $57,310.
Crystal bases their costs on a manpower analysis between the
housing inspector and the clerical staff and uses the hourly rates
and estimated time for inspections, followup work, correspondence
writing, etc. Crystal instituted this program in January 1992.
Mr. Prairie asked what Fridley currently raises in fees.
Ms. Dacy stated they have currently raised $17,914.
Mr. Meyer stated that the fee schedules for virtually every one of
these other communities are going completely in the wrong
direction. These schedules do not make any sense, and Fridley
should not even think of doing anything like them. Staff is saying
that most of the problems are in the multiple family dwellings.
If they add in the cost of complaints, followup, etc., and weight
them, that is the way it should be done. More dollars are being
charged to the smaller units then for larger units, and that does
not make sense.
Councilmember Schneider agreed that the sliding scale is not right.
Zt seems like they should be able penalize those owners where there
� are problems.
HO_U�INa & REDEVELOPMENT AIIT80RITY MTG., DECEMHER 10, 1992 - PAGB 6
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Mr. Meyer stated one problem in doing something like the number of
complaints. The owner of a building with a lot of units might have
tenants who are . mad at the owner, and 50 a of the complaints are
spurious complaints. There is no reasan why that owner should be
unfairly penalized; therefore, it might revert back to analyzing
the complaints and the types of units and setting the fees
acaordingly. �
Ms. Dacy stated staff is not inspecting interiors of single
families or duplexes. Staff does not know the level of compliance
with the City's current rental code on some of these units. It may
take 2-3 inspections in order for that particular unit to come into
compliance. So you still spend the same amount of time for a
single family unit doing inspection and followup as you would with
a larger unit, because when they get into the larger units, some
of the larger complexes are going to be paying $1,500-2,000 per
year. In the case of the Meadow Run Apartments, a majority of
those units are in compliance, so that analysis works both ways.
Ms. Dacy stated that one thing the HRA and City Council need to do
is agree on an annual licensing fee, and they have to develop a
schedule for the number of excessive reinspections and complaints.
There should be a separate fee charge for that.
,�-� Councilmember Jorgenson asked how they address the issue when there
are tenants who are mad at the landlord and they continue to call
in with complaints, and the City is penalizing that landlord for
tenant-initiated calls.
Mr. Larson statecl they would have to set up some kind of tier on
the severity of the violations. What they are finding is that
toward the end of the month when eviction notices are given out
because people haven't paid their rent, the tenants call the City
and make minor complaints.
Ms. Dacy stated the annual licensing fee structure staff is
proposing is based to cover the manpower costs to administer the
general program. A separate structure is being proposed to cover
that extra cost due to the excessive complaints.
Mr. Prairie asked if any of the other communities have a penalty
for complaints..
Ms. Dacy stated that of the communities staff has interviewed, the
answer is, no, but Crystal is evaluating it.
Mr. Meyer stated in listening to Mr. Larson's testimony, it sounds
like most of the problems come from a certain group, and .they
should penalize or at least bring,,as an absolute mini�um, the
problem group to the same level as the average citizen who rents
^ out a single family house.
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HOIISING & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG., DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE 7
Councilmember Schneider stated that if this was his program, he
would try to identify the 3-4 worst apartment buildings in the
community on an annual basis, give them a thorough inspection, give
them 6 months to make repairs, and at the end of 6 months if there
is no sign of the owner making the repairs within those 6 months
to a year, then the City should acquire the building and resell it
to another owner. He would like to see the City take some
aggressive action and concentrate on the problem areas on an annual
basis, rather than spreading out their resources over 2,000 units.
Mr. Commers stated they have to be careful with the distinction
between what they might call the people who are moving in who don't
care and run the apartments down and the vast majority of elderly
income people who live in the City who can only afford the same
level of apartment. They have to be careful not to exclude the
seniors from housing. However, that doesn't mean the apartments
should be allowed to deteriorate and not meet code.
Ms . Schnabel stated the HRA has never talked about a"truth-in-
housing" inspection on rental units. If, prior to the sale of any
multiple housing units, there was some type of inspection program
that could be implemented to assure them that these units have been
improved prior to sale, that might help the HRA as opposed to the
HRA buying a building and rehabilitating it themselves.
Ms. Dacy stated that as of now, the other communities have only
applied "truth-in-housing" to single family homes.
Ms. Pat Wolfe stated it is very e�tpensive, and that is probably
why other communities are not using "truth-in-housing" for multiple
units.
Mr. Larson stated he did not know of anyone on City staff at this
time who would have the expertise to make those kinds of
inspections. �
Mr. Commers stated it �is a good idea, though, and might be
something the HRA might want to look into in the future.
Ms. Dacy stated they would have to investigate how many times the
multiple family properties turn over and whether that kind of
program would be cost-effective.
Councilmember Jorgenson stated the�City Council looked at "truth-
in-housing!' for single family residential homes a few years ago.
One of the problems they found wrong with the program is that if
you have someone looking at a home, and the truth-in-housing
inspector has found a lot of problems with a home; that buyer may
choose to go to another community to buy the same kind of unit in
the same shape for less money. So, there is a problem in how a
"truth-in-housing" program would be applied. Is it going to cause
particular units that are on the market for sale not to be sold?
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80II8ING � REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG., DECEMHER 10, 1992 - PAGL 8
Will the prospective buyer go somewhere else, and then these empty
buildings fall back upon the City or a bank? They have to take
those types of things into consideration. If there are
identifiable problems, it is a wonderful opportunity, for the City
to offer some type�of assistance to correct those problems instead
of sending the prospective buyer to another community.
Mr. Larson stated that out of the 4,000 units in the City last
year, only 32 units changed hands.
Mr. Commers thanked Mr. Larson for coming to the meeting and for
the good information.
Councilmember Billings stated that, regarding the fee structure,
they keep talking about a new licensing fee. He believed that is
the wrong approach. He believed they should have a licensing fee
for a license to do business in the City of Fridley to operate a
rental unit. That should be a license fee that covers the cost of
issuing the license, covers the cost .of the necessary police
protection, covers the cost of resident complaints, etc. Then,
there should also be a certificate of occupancy for the building
that is a separate fee aitogether. The rental unit, whether
residential, commercial, industrial, should be inspected on a
periodic basis to see if it qualifies for habitation. Right now
the City issues a certificate of occupancy when the buildings are
built, and that� is the last time they issue a certificate of
occupancy. If the unit fails the inspection, the certificate of
occupancy does not get renewed. This is a way of catching the
problems while they are little problems.
Mr. Commers stated that is good, but that philosophy should also
be applicable to the single family units. Single family units
deteriorate just as badly. They have a lot of single family homes
in Fridley that do not meet code. They have to treat everyone
fairly.
Councilmember Billings stated the difference is that, except for
about 125 out of some 7,00o homes, the owner is living on the
property. With commercial property, the owner of the property may
be doing business on the property but could be renting it to
someone else. They could couple it with the truth-in-housing for
single family and require that the house be brought up to code,
because residential property is changing hands more often than
single family.
Ms. Schnabel agreed with Mr. Commers that they should treat
everyone equally, but, secondly, she did not know how a program
like that could be worked with 4,000 rental units alone. Is the
certificate of occupancy going to be based�on.the inspection on
all individual units or a general inspection of the building? What
%"i criteria would be used on rental units, and how are all those
inspections going to be done in a year and followup inspections?
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HOII8IIJG � REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG.. DECEMBER 10, 1992 = PAGE 9
This sounds like an enormous task which is beyond the HRA's scope
because they lack the manpower and�the money to fund it.
Councilmember Billings stated the money to fund it comes from the
annual fee.
Ms. Pat Wolfe stated the Section 8 program gives her an advantage
in her inspections in that she can withhold money from the
landlords until problems are fixed, and that is done quite
frequently. She does all the inspections for Section 8 housing in
Fridley.
Ms. Wolfe stated she had brought along some material about the
Housing Quality Standards which were developed by HUD. She had
also included a list of some of the common things that cause a
failed inspection. She stated that she is advocating very strongly
for inspections to be done in all the units in a building.
Ms. Dacy stated staff has been evaluating adopting the Housing
Quality Standards as part of the Chapter 220 code.
Ms. Wolfe stated that applications for Section 8 housing for one
and two bedroom units were taken in August 1992, and over 4, 000
people, metro-wide, applied, so there is a real need out there.
� Fridley averages about 186 Section 8 units. The Section 8 housing
in Fridley has declined over the years, and she'feels that much of
that is due to the fact that the fair market rate that HUD
detenaines has gone up. Fridley�s housing stock doesn�t appeal to
people anymore. Many of the buildings in Fridley are outdated and
do not have the amenities as the newer buildings in Coon Rapids or
Blaine.
Ms. Wolfe stated that a lot of people, especially those eligible
for three-bedroom units and who want to live in the northern
suburbs, tend to move towards the Coon Rapids, Blaine, Anoka areas
where there are new apartment buildings.
Ms. Schnabel asked about how tenants are screened for Section 8,
and what questions are landlords asking that determines that they
get a good tenant or a bad tenant.
Ms. Wolfe stated she did not know what questions are asked. She
has suggestecl that the landlords go through a rental research
company. The landlord pays a fee for the rental research company
to run credit checks and past references. This has been very
effective. What happens then is that the landlord charges the
tenant an application fee of $15-20 to cover this cost. Depending
upon how much information the landlord wants, the application fee
goes up. Sometimes, just the fact that there is an application fee
will screen out some tenants.
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HOII�ING & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG.. DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE 10
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Ms. Wolfe stated that when she goes into a unit that has
violations, she sees a rental license, and she wonders how the
owner can have a rental license when there are so many violations.
So, she agreed with Councilmember Billings that she would like to
see the certificate of occupancy which tells her the building is
up to code.
Mr. Meyer stated he is aoncerned about what they are trying to do.
He is hearing that the problems are the lack of screening tenants
and a few unscrupulous landlords. Is a huge rental inspection
program for paint-up, patch-up going to cure the tenant problem?
He did not see any correlation between the two.
Ms. Wolfe stated she does not refer her good tenants to certain
buildings in Fridley where she knows there are problems., because
she knows there are better places for them to go.
Mr. McFarland stated that landlords have to be motivated to keep
their buildings in good shape. If an investor cannot get a
cashflow . out of the unit, he is not going to put any money into
the unit, and the unit will deteriorate. He did not know if using
public money to help an investor keep up an income property for
profit was appropriate for the HRA.
Ms. Schnabel stated they are here to talk about the housing stock
,�� and part of the HRA is "redevelopment", and they need to focus on
those kind o€ the issues.
Mr. Meyer stated that if they are trying to keep out the people
who bring in crime and trash apartments and a lot of problems could
be solved somewhat by a screening program, then they should find
a way to get all the landlords to do screening. It is much cheaper
than hiring inspectors for a program of paint-up, patch-up.
Ms . Dacy stated she agreed that the bad tenants are one part of
the problem and are part of the housing issue, but the main reason
the HRA and the Council are discussing this is because the housing
stock is aginq and there are good tenants in deferred housing
maintenance units. The charge of the HRA is to try to take care
of the�housing units as best as possible for housing quality. A
screening technique for managers is one way to attack the tenant
part of the issue, but neither the HRA nor the Council is going to
be able to solve the drug problem. However, staff is suggesting
some tools that can be combined and balanced to try to attack the
problems and try to maintain the livability of the units.
Mr. Commers stated they are also trying to get a sense of value.
The HRA recognizes there are some problems, but it is just a part
of the overall picture. Is it worth spending $100,000 for two
inspectors to cure this 10% problem of the picture when there are
a lot of other problems? Or should they take that .$100,000 and
�'1 make it available for those landlords who want to do something to
maintain their buildings?
80IIBIN�3 & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG4. , DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE il
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Ms. Dacy stated that is why staff has suggested some options for
the HRA to consider. The HRA has discussed the 3-4 options, and
staff agrees that the HRA needs to prioritize the.money as best as
possible. Right now Mr. Larson and Ms. Wolfe are inspection 10�
of the units on a complaint ba�is. If they increased the
inspections at least to 1,000 units, they would be getting at some
of the issues on the deferred maintenance. It will not solve all
of the problems, but it will attack some of them. Then, they can
try to create a program to find the problem buildings and see if
they can update those units.
Councilmember Schneider stated that if they agree that they want
the landlords to start screening tenants, then why don't they tie
in something with the certificate of occupancy so that if the
landlord screens tenants, the fee for inspections will be reduced.
That would give the landlord an economic incentive to do the
screening.
Ms. Wolfe stated that something like that would be hard to track.
Mayor Nee stated that if they adopt the certificate of occupancy
mentioned by Councilmember Billings and enforce it if a landlord
doesn't comply with the violations and shut down the unit, it might
,.�-� show that the City really means business.
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Mr. Meyer stated it is a credible idea.
Ms. Schnabel stated that particularly with a high vacancy rate, it
might be less of a risk of really displacing people if they can be
moved into other units.
Ms. Schnabel stated that regarding whether the HRA should help
someone who is in the business of making money for profit, the HRA
does that every time they give money to a business for improvements
such as McGlynn Bakeries. It is the same concept.
Ms. Dacy introduced Lowell Demars, Assistant Fire Chief for the
City of Columbia Heights.
Mr. Demars handed out a packet of information that included
Columbia Heights' Housing Maintenance Code. ,
Mr. Demars stated they have about 2,050-2,060 rental units in
Columbia Heights. In the Fire Department, he has six full-time
people, two who are obligated to the Housing Maintenance Code, and
one who does Fire Code inspections. To date, they have done about
2,800-2,900 property inspections with the three people. They
inspect every building in the City business-wi�e and industry-wise
twice a year. They inspect the exterior of rental property once
a year. They have divided the City into four�quadrants, and they
inspect one quarter of all the rental housing interior and exterior
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HOIIBING � REDEVELOPMENT AIIT80RITY MTG., DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE 12
every year, with the exception of some of the bigger buildings with
70-80 units. With those buildings, they spot check. Most of their
major units are pretty well controlled.
Mr. Demars stated that a lot of the single inspections run into
two, three, and four recalls until the problems are resolved. The
major problems are in Grid A between 45th and 47th Avenues and
Central Avenue and Johnson Street.
Mr. Demars stated that in 1991, they inspected about 35� of the
housing maintenance rental code inspections. In 1992, as of
October 1, they have inspected every rental unit at least once.
For each unit, they make an initial inspection with a 30 day period
to correct the violations, they make a followup inspection after
30 days and if nothing is done, they will give the landlord another
30 days. On the third inspection, if they have not gotten
compliance on every issue cited and the landlord has not appealed
any of the issues, the City will assess the landlord $25 every time
they come back. Most of the owners (95�5) have complied, and less
than 3-4� of the o�aners are not cooperative. Most of the owners
are happy with the rental inspection program because it allows the
City and the landlord to get into an apartment unit where they know
or think they have problems.
,,--� Mr. Demars stated they have also stressed in this program to the
owners that they would like the owners to screen their tenants a
little better. Most of the owners have agreed that they are going
to screen their tenants better. He stated they have gone into
units that are totally destroyed by the tenants. That is where the
housing maintenance code comes in. They have many more problems
with tenants than with the landlords. The tenants create the
problems fo= the landlords.
Mr. Demars stated that some of the things he and his staff look
for with the housing maintenance code on the exterior is the
condition of the structure. Every building is required to have
storms and screens. At the same time they go through the unit with
the Housing Maintenance Code, they go through the unit with�the
Fire Code. They also look for junk vehicles; they require a hard
surface parking area for one vehicle per rental unit. This year,
a concrete pad will be required to store all boats, trailezs, etc.
They check for sod, that the lawns are maintained, no weeds, just
a general thorough exterior look. With the interior, they make
sure that everything is up to code in the buildings.
Councilmember Jorgenson asked if Columbia Heights has an annual
occupancy permit.
Mr. Demars stated that Columbia Heights does have an annual
occupancy permit. '
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HOIIBING & REDEVELOPMENT AIIT80RITY MTG., DECEMBLR 10, 1992 - PAGE 13
Mr. Demars stated that they have only taken three property owners
to court•over violations. One case the judge threw out because of
inadequate paperwork, one case the judge threw out because he
thought that the case was too trivial and that Columbia Heights
has too many ordinances, and in one case the property owner was
fined $500 and told his property had to come into compliance within
30 days.
Mr. Demars stated he believed that because of this housing
maintenance code and their inspections, they have cleaned up 750
of the problems in Columbia Heights. This has all been
accomplished in one year.
Mr. Commers asked if the Fire Department inspectors work full time.
Mr. Demars stated the two inspectors work 24 hour shifts. They
will inspect five 8-9 hour days out of a three week period. They
also work Saturday and Sunday. In a three week period, they are
each putting in about 40 hours of street-time, but they are
actually putting in about another 40 hours of paperwork. He stated
these two people have a heavy workload, but they work hard and do
an excellent job.
Councilmember Billings stated these inspectors are putting in about
,,•-� 200 hours every three week period, which is equivalent to about 1
1/2 persons.
�
Mr. Meyer asked what kind of background Mr. Demars has.
Mr. Demars stated he has been in the
Of those 25 years, he has put in
industrial/commercial buildings under
the Assistant Fire Chief in Columbia
housing maintenance program. He chose
qualified to do the job.
fire service for 25 years.
about 14 years inspecting
the Fire Code. He is now
Heights and he directs the
the people he felt were most
Mayor ATee asked what type of credentials do the inspectors have.
Mr. Demars stated the two inspectors are firefighter EMT's. They
have an extensive inspection background. They also have an
excellent knowledge of the housing maintenance code.
Mr. Prairie stated that Mr. Demars had stated that he feels they
have corrected 75% of the problems in Columbia Heights. What has
happened to help that correction?
Mr. Demars stated it is because they have actually gone through
the units and pointed out to the tenants that the City and the
landlord know the tenants are causing the problems and the landlord
is going to start changing the tenants.
HOIISING & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG.. DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE 14
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Ms. Dacy stated that the Fridley City Council and the HRA are
trying to decide whether or not the City of Fridley needs a rental
inspection program. Right now they make inspections only when
there are com�laints, and about 10% of the existing units are
inspected annually. Would Mr. Demars reaommend that the City of
Fridley increase the amount of rental inspections? Is a rental
inspection program worthwhile based on his experience?
Mr. Demars stated, yes, he would recommend that the City of Fridley
have a rental inspection program. He stated that if the Council
and HRA want to keep the City in reasonable shape, now is the time
to do it. They should not wait until they get into the situation
that Columbia Heights is 'in. In order for the program to work,
staff must have the.full backing of every member of the Council and
HRA. Otherwise, it will not work and there will be nothing but
problems. He would also recommend that when they are drawing up
an ordinance, they must be very careful to make everything equal
for all properties.
Mr. Demars stated they are looking at their housing maintenance
code from the standpoint that they want the appearance of the City
to improve, but they will never cure the interior problems. Those
are ongoing. They can just try to weed out the people who are
causing the problems.
�� Mr. Demars stated that next year, they are going to inspect the
exterior of privately owned dwellings also. They have tested the
waters. The Fire Department did about five inspections this year
basically on complaints from rental property owners. The property
owners complied on every code violation. The only thing the
housing maintenance code does not address is commercial/ industrial
properties, and they are looking at doing that next year.
Mr. Demars stated one of the problems in Columbia Heights is the
tagging issue. In Columbia Heights, only the Fire Chief, a police
officer, a community service officer, or the building inspector can
issue tags. Neither he nor his inspectors can issue a tag. His
advice to Fridley is to make sure they give their inspectors the
right to issue tags. They are the ones seeing the problems and
they should have that authority.
Mr. Larson asked Mr. Demars to estimate the hours per week spent
on rental housing inspections.
Mr. Demars stated he would estimate about 90 man hours per week.
That is his paperwork time and inspection time. That does not the
include the inspectors' after hours paperwork time.
Mr. Demars stated that speaking from the Fire Department's point
of view, if the City of Fridley added three full-time people to
� its Fire Department, those three people could handle the housing
maintenance code, handle all the fire calls, handle all the medical
HOUBING 6 REDEVELOPMENT AOTHORITY MTG. , DECEMBER 10. 1992 - PA(3E 15
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calls, run a 24 hour medical service, and provide that much better
protection for the citizens than Fridley currently has. If they
hire three people for the building department, then they only have
a building department and they have not added anything to the
City's protection. If a city is going to put money into hiring
people, then it should hire people that can do a dual purpo�e.
Mr. Commers thanked Mr. Demars for coming and for the information
on the Columbia Heights housing maintenance code. Mr. Demars and
his inspectors certainly deserve a lot of credit for cleaning up
a lot of the problems in Columbia Heights.
Ms. Dacy asked if the HRA could come to some type of closure on
the staff's recommendation and to give the staff new direction.
Staff's recommendation is that the HRA and City Council institute
a rental inspection at some intensity.
Ms. Dacy stated Mr. Burns and she met with two apartment owners
that day to test the market if the HRA set up its own program for
assistance. They got some good feedback from those owners.
Ms. Dacy stated staff is attacking the multiple family issues with
two key issues: (1) to establish the rental inspection program;
(2) to utilize HRA money for a rehabilitation program. Does the
,� HRA agree that those two approaches attack the problem?
G1
Ms. Schnabel stated she believed that part of the problem goes back
to what Mr. Commers said earlier in the meeting, and that is the
ghilosophical approach about who is really going to be responsible
for the costs.
Councilmember Billings stated he is seeing the rental inspection
program and the rehabilitation program as two distinct separate
issues. He believed that right now they should focus on whether
there should be an inspection program, and should it be the
responsibility of the HRA or the City of Fridley?
Councilmember Schneider stated his problem with staff's
recommendation is that it is only going to solve a piece of the
problem. They are hearing that there are a lot of different
issues, i.e., screening issues, inspection issues, how many
inspections, education issues, etc.
Mr. Burns stated the staff came prepared with information based on
the discussions.at prior HR� and City Council meetings. Staff's
recommendation is that there be a rental inspection program and
that the City pay for the rental inspection program out of the fees
generated from increased rental inspection fees or from an
occupancy permit or truth-in-housing. Staff also came prepared to
suggest that they cut back the intensity of inspections from 2,000
units to 1,000 units and raise about $50,000 in fees from the City
to cover the cost of the 1,000 units. That leaves $110,000 out of
HOIIBIN(3 & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MT(3.. DECEMHER 10, 1992 - PAGE 16
the $500, 000 that was earmarked from HRA money that can be used for
a variety of purposes. The main thing would be to assist with
multiple family rental rehab. Staff will be meeting with a
representative from MHFA, and it does look like there are sdme good
ways they can marry the $110,000 with NIIIFA money.
Mr. Burns stated he liked the idea of a certificate of occupancy.
They might want to reserve a little bit of money for tenant relief
that comes about as a result of some kind of certificate of
occupancy program.
Mr. Burns stated that as far as organizing landlords and property
owners, staff has met with two landlords who think that is a
wonderful idea and pointed out that it has worked in Brooklyn
Center. The City makes a difference. It helps to structure the
landlord association and helps to get continuity that isn't there
otherwise.
Mr. Commers stated that based on the opinion he stated earlier
about whether or not the HRA should be responsible for running a
rental inspection program, a better inspection program would
certainly help to solve a part aF the problem. And, then maybe
the HRA can do something as far as rehab or education, which are
more typical HRA activities., to also try to solve part of the
,-� problem. After hearing the discussion at this meeting, it doesn't
sound like Fridley has such a bad problem.
Councilmember Billings stated there are a lot of tools they will
need to use over the next 10 years to revitalize the City. The
rental inspection program and rehabilitatioh program are two
valuable tools. If a year from now they £ind that one of these
tools is not working right, they can certainly look for another
tool, but they have to get something going now to get things done.
Councilmember Schneider stated he is not so concerned about the
intensity of the number of inspections, but the appli�ation of that
number.
Councilmember Billings stated he agrees with Mr. Commers that the
rental inspection program is a function of the City and not the
HRA.
Mr. Burns stated that when they met with the apartment owners, one
of the things that came out of that meeting was that in
restructuring the rehab program and maybe the inspection program,
they want to focus in on things that are the biggest problems for
30 and 40 year old apartment buildings. The apartment owners gave
staff the following list: windows, roofs, appliances, electrical
systems, and heat. The apartment owners suggested that the City
focus narrowly on those kinds of things.
/'1
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HOIISINa & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG., DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE 17
Mr. Burns stated most of the apartment un'its are very highly
leveraged, and they do not have a lot of room to borrow more money.
So, the City's involvement in even this small list of things is
going to be expensive. They are going to be at the 50� level of
participation, or maybe even more.
Mr. Meyer stated after hearing the discussian at this meeting, one
of the things he learned is that nothing the City could do with�the
inspection program is going to change the tenants, and the tenants
appear to be 95� of the problem. The only thing that is going to
help the tenant situation is the screening issue.
Mr. Meyer stated the City currently has an inspection program. He
is also hearing that there doesn't appear to be a big problem.
The City has received 250 complaints from a small number of
buildings. Why can't they take the current inspection effort and
concentrate on cleaning up the mess in these areas with better
judicial action?
Mr. Meyer stated that�it seems there are life safety things that
should be looked at harder than broken windows. Maybe they should
take some of the resources they have and redirect them, and then
get harder enforcement.
�,.� Mr. Meyer stated he is a little puzzled to know where the City's
action and the HRA's action using public monies can be used to just
focus on rental property. What about the other properties.which
are deteriorating? Mr. Demars said they are going to be doing that
in Columbia Heights.
Councilmember Jorgenson asked about vacant single family
residential HUD property which sometimes sits vacant up to a year.
Maybe they could acquire some of those homes, rehab them, and sell
them to low and moderate income families through something like the
HOME program.
Ms. Dacy stated there are about 1-2 vacant HUD homes at this time.
The particular aspect that.Councilmember Jorgenson is talking about
is part of the scattered site acquisition component on which staff
has recommended the HRA spend $100,000.
Ms. Dacy stated she believed Mr. Demars was saying that Columbia
Heights starting doing these inspections at a time when the housing
stock was getting a little far behind them. Staff is just trying
to say that they have concerns that with the inspections that are
occurring now at the e�isting level, staff feels the City will
start to fall behind in the early 1990's and b� the end of the
decade they will be even further behind. That is basically the
reason for trying to increase the rental inspections now.
n Mr. Meyer stated he has the concern of creating a patch-up, paint-
up police force in the whole City.
HOIIBING & REDEVELOPMENT AIITHORITY MTG.. DECEMBER 10. 1992 - PAGE 18
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Ms . Schnabel stated the City already has a housing maintenance code
that can be enforced which applies to single family as well as
multiple housing. She did not believe that is a police unit
enforcement of a code. That is just helping the neighborhoods keep
. their properties maintained and their values up.
Mr. Burns stated that staff is also recommending that Chapter 220,
the current rental inspection code, be upgraded.
Ms. Dacy stated the Council and HRA have a lot of questions about
income issues and financing issues that should probably be
discussed at another meeting.
Mr. Commers stated that in terms of a closure, he believed the HRA
had no objection with the City upgrading the inspection program.
As far as the HRA is concerned, they are willing to look at
programs. Maybe there are low interest loans the HRA might be
willing to make to put people into some properties.
Councilmember Billings stated he wants to take another look at the
inspection process. They either need to have an inspection program
or money, and maybe they have to do a little of both. They are
going to have to work with the building owners, the property
,�.� managers, and the tenants and do a tremendous amount of education.
They also need to do something similar for the single family as
well sa it is demonstrated that the City is doing something city-
wide.
The HRA and City Council agreed to continue discussion on the
housing issue on Saturday, January 9, 1993, at 1Q:00 a.m. �
2. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF CO�ITRACT WITH CASSERLY LAW OFFICE. P.A.:�
MOTION by Mr. Prairie, seconded by Mr. McFarland, to approve the
contract with Casserly Law Office, P.A.
IIPON A VOICE VOTTs, ALL VOTINC AYE � CHAIRPER80N COIrIl�lERB DECLARED
THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
3. CONSIDERATION OF ENGAGEMENT AGREEMENT FOR THE AUDIT ACCOUNTING
SERVICES FOR THE FRIDLEY HRA:
MOTION by Mr. Meyer, seconded by Mr. McFarland, to approve the
�ngagement Agreement with Tautges, Redpath & Co., Ltd., for the
audit accounting services for the Fridley HRA.
IIPON A VOICE DOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPER80N COMMERB DECLARED
T8R MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY.
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80IIBING � REDEVELOPMENT ADTHORITY MTG.. DECEMBER 10, 1992 - PAGE 19
4. CLAIMS AND EXPENSES:
a. Check Register (2266-2273)
MOTION by Ms. Schnabel, seconded by Mr. Prairie, to approve the
check register dated December 4, 1992.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTINa AYE� CBAIRPERBON COMMERB DECLARED
T8E MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY.
5. RICE PLAZA UPDATE:
Information item only.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Mr. McFarland, seconded by Ms. Schnabel, to adjourn the
meeting. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Commers
declared the motion carried and the December 10, 1992, Housing and
Redevelopment Authority meeting adjourned at 11:15 p.m.
Respectfully s mitted,
,�
' Ly e Saba
R ording Secretary
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