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PL 08/05/1970 - 30180��1 �, P 1 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AUGUST S, 1970 PAGE 1 The meeting was called to order by Acting Chairman Harris at 8:10 P.M. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Minish, Harris, Schmedeke Members Absent: Erickson, Fitzpatrick Others Present: Darrel Clark, Engineering Assistant Peter J. Herlofsky, Planning Assistan� APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: JULY 22 1970 RECEIVE PLATS .� SUBDIVISIOIVS-STREETS � UTILITIES SUBCOMMITTEE MINUT$S: , 0 RECEIVE BUILDING STANDaRDS-DESIGN CONTROL SUBC014IMITTEE MINUTES: JULY`Z3 RECEIVE BOARD OF APPEALS MINUTES: JULY 28 1970 ��� ,'��fiffi�BD PUBLIC HEARING : PROPOSED PRELIMINARY PLAT P Y N INC.: T at portion o t e E 1 o t e S -- nns rucc art . �70-03 o�'Section �4 Z, CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING RE UEST: ZOA #70-05 BY V�EWC0�1 I or t at port on o t e o t e o Section to, e rezoned from R-1 to R-3 (General Multipl�`-F�i�y���,11iA��) or�R=3A (Apartments On1y). Acting Chairman Harris suggested that the first two items on the �genda be consi�dered at the same time as they both involve the same develvpment. The audience was told that since the Public Hearing had not been closed the floor was open for comment. M�C. James R. Durand-1553 Berne Road - Commented that he lives di�'ectly across from where the townhouse apartments are proposed. Plann�ng Commission Meeting - August 5, 1970 Page Z . 852 unit's of apartments means at least 1600 cars traveling back and forth �"� daily. This will definitely hamper traffic on Silver Lake Road. Their school system already needs help and the children from the apar�ments will just make matters worse. • n, He also stated that they had hand picked their lot and it was very expensive and a Hi-rise apartment building would bring down their property value. Acting Chairman Harris explained that technically ihis was not a Hi°rise apartment. These buildings are only three stories tall and a Hi-�rise is at least 6 stori.es tall. Mr. Durand said that this did not matter, he still did not want to si.t �,n his yard and look �t apartments. He was against the project. M�. W3.11i.am Di.etz-1280 Hathaway Lane - stated that it was his understanding that Hathaway Lane was going to be made to continue to Matterhoxn Drive. Because of the elevation and the increased flow of t�caf�ic he and other residents were concerned about an additiona7. traffi� problem at Moore Lake and Centxal Avenue. He wondered if there k�ad bepr� ar�y studi.es done on this area and what our plans were for it. Darrel C1axk explained that there was a study in progress on th� i.nte�section at the South end of Moore Lake and Hwy. #65, but that it had not been completed yet. He also explained that the necessity of connecting`Hathaway to Matterhorn would be decided by the City and he t�as sure that they would be willing to listen to the people's comments b�£oxe making a fi.nal decision. Mz. A�etz added that they had been assured that this arsa wauld x�mai��n It�l and �elt that t�ey were entitled to residential traffic. MB felt that the people would take the straightes� route and �o straight dot�m Hathaway rather then up to Gardena and around. Darxel Clark commented that more thought will probably be given to the vpeni.ng of Hathaway Lane and that it might not be done at all. The d�veloper doesn�t really care if Hathaway Lane is opened becaus� h.is p�an wi.11 wark ei.ther way. M�. Chaxles Van Eeckhout (Viewcon xeprese tative told the audi.'ence that his company has already modifie� its p�ans to ref�ect th� changes suggested by the Planning Commission. Regis Lane�can naw-� eonn@ct to Niatterhorn and 175 feet South there is a conne�tion fox another road. Also, because of the view from Berne Road and noise £rpm the £re�way it has been decided to move the multiple dwelling� SO feet from the freeway and leave the area in a natural state. This should supply �ery substantial screening because of the natural veg�tation, �io�sibly close to 100�. The.multip les will be small buildings, approximately 47 f�et by 80 f�et, so'that they can accomodate the different grade chang�s. Th� �� apa��tm�nts �a�e actually not much largex then some of th� raml�lexs ir� . �nnsbruck. Planning Commission Meeting - August 5, 1970 Page 3 The individual apartment units will be �old on a condominium basis. Building in this way xather then all sin�le £amily dwellings saves �'� much more of the wilderness area. These will be deluxe buildings. The;� people will be homeowwe�s�a: nat renters and they will be voters and �ood citizens. Ludie M. Thomas-5353 Matterhorn Circle - asked about the population dens�ty. This should be Considexed a major problem. Mr. Van Eeckhout said that there would be approximately 7.4 units par acre. The 1 and 2 bedroom townhouse units will have 2��2 to 3 people per unit. The 120 single family homes �ill probably have 4 per home.or appxoximately 2700 people. Mr. David A, Doehler-1281 Hathaway Lane - stated that th� South end of Moore Lake is a major traffic problem now. Population density just means more automobile density and this is what concesns him. Ther� is no real outlet to Silver Lake Road planned to help the problem� He £e1t it was human nature to stick to a route once you get used to usin� it so � good route should be devised now before the development is Completed. A good Silver Lake Road outlet would prevent a real traff�c problem.:It was no good to change just to make one_person �appy. Darrel Clark asked i£ he was aware that there was a xoad to Silver Lake Road. � Mr. Doehler replied that he was but what �e had in mind was a real �ood road, p�ssibly foux lanes �ith lights. Th� Planning Commission was as�ed if the project will be cxo�sing County lines ? Darx.el Clark replied that the Innsbruck project itself will not Grps� anY County l�nes but Viewcon does own property across �he 1�ne i.n Ra,mseY County. - Ac��ng Chairman Haxris commeirted that the residential lots on the West ���'e�of the project which abutt Parkview Homes are the real t��f��� ���t��ators for Fridley. There will be an access from tho Bast 98d'Gi�tl� o� '�h� proj ect to Silver Lake Road. �- ��. 1�an Eeckhout said that Yiewcon has lAdicated that they W���-d�3dicate� -���ie�.�i�h��•b£ way o�t� to. Siln�r�-�ake Road`�to: thl� ' E�ty vf`Fridl�y: It will be up to the Fridley Engineering Department to des��n a road that will handle the traffic. The State Highway Dopar�ment and the Ramsey County Highway Department see no problem aAd will commence design on their sections of the road as soan as th�y �re suTe the project is going ahead. The road is'really a government problom and Viewcon�s hands are tied. They are trying to design an e��dequata system. • � Mx. Van Beckhout further explained that the interchange is a � dia,mond interchange and the State has many ways of upgrading it but �t ���just`n�becemi.ng necessary. Plann�ng Cammission Meeting - Au ust 5, 1970 Pa�e� Mr. Bergman-5503 Regis Trail - stated that he had heard at a City ^ Council meeting that the State Highway Department was considering revising the intersection at Hwy. �65 and Old Central. Darrel Clark said that the State has been taking traffic counts and using other methods to study the intersection to improve its design so that it could better handle traffic on Hill.wind Road to Central. During the busy hours now Hillwind is practically useless. Mr. R.D. Blohm-1605 Berne Road - felt that the traffic plan should be set up well in advance of the completion of the buildings sa that the residents of the area did not have to suffer for five years w�il� it was being completed. He also wondered if any thought had been given to the sewage problem. Darrel Clark explained that the problem had been �iven much thought but no definite plans had been drawn. The present sewer laterals would not handle the problem in the conventional manner but reservoirs or holding ponds which would discharge the sewage during the off hours would probably take care of the problem. These systems are expensiva, but the burden is on the developers. Any assessments would be made to the acreage in the project. Acting Chairman Harris commented that the people could not be assessed for something which wo�ld no� benefit their prop�r�y. ^ Mr. Blohm then asked �f the new children added to the ar�a would , not overload an already troubled school system ? Darrel C1ark said that this area is in the Columbia Heights schovl sYstem and they would have to ask the Columbia Heights Sch�ol 8oard:.: He cont�nued that our recent Apartment Survey shows that the poo�e�t taxpayers are singl� family dwellings. Apartments more then pay th�ir way in the school system. Mr. Van Eeckhout explained that he had spoken to the Cplumbia Heights School Board and they had told him that the nufiber o£ grade school age school children in this area was on the decline so they �' would be able to handle the children from the project. The p�oje�t will be paying enough in taxes to build a new 4 or 5 million dollar school. It wi11 be a definite tax advantage. , �udie Thomas asked where the outlets were located and was told that they wer�: Matterhorn to Gardena; Hillwind, Regis, Hathaway fio the Wast; and th� unPnamed route East to Silver Lake Road. Mr. Donald A. Zappa-1549 Berne Road - said that he was told whan he moved into the area that it was all zoned residential and would stay that way. Th�S �s a first class area and he wanted it io stay th�t war. He was aga�nst the project. Acting Chairman Harris asked if there were any comments from the r•-� Plannin� Commission members, Plann�n� Comiqission Meeting - August 5, 1970 Page 5 �� Mr. Schmedeke said that he was glad that the people had come to the Publi� Hearings, it gave the members a chance to hear both sides ,� of the question. The tra�fic seemed to be the main problem and he wandexed if a loop back, possibly on Hillwind, would help the pxoblom, Mr. Durand commented that the traffic is impo�tant but so is the ap�earance o� the building and Viewcon had not shown any pictures of th� proposed apaxtment buildings. Mx. Yan Eeckhout expla�ned that the apartments would be very simi'l�r in app�arance to the apartments at Viewcon's project at Twin Lakes North. 'They would be changed only to make them more compatible to th� �orest �xea in Innsbruck, This factor had been given very careful afitent�on. Ths��aet�a� building �lans will have to come before the �lann�hg Commission for approval before they are buil�. Mr. Minish asked if the buildings were similar to those at Twi�° Lakes Noxth then why nat bring pictures of this project to at least g�ve the people some idea of�what will be going in. He then asked if Y�ewco� had done any traffic studies of its own on the area. Mx, Van Eeckhout answered that their study figured for about 3�600 tr�ps in and out of the development daily. They guessed that about 2/3 of these would use Silver Lake Road and most would be froe- way oriented. These were just guesses and th�y would need.mora � in�oxmation for better figures. ,� �r. Minish asked if the figure of 2/3 of the people using Silv�..r Lake Road was based on the fact that Silver Lake Road was to be upgr�d�d? M�. Yan Eeckhout answered that it did not really make any diffexonce that th� people woudd use Silver Lake Road regardless. The�%S�at� ' Highway Department has said that as soon as they have tangibl� eY�de�ce, such as the rezoning, that the project was going throu$h_Lhey w31� star� upgrading the road. The people will not be in thexe for �xom 3 to S years. Actin� �hairman Harris asked if there were any questions cone�r�i�g th� P1at. He thought that some of the grades in the area w�re px��ty st��p. Darre]. Clark commented,that the highest grade he had seen wa� 6� a,nd tliat tb..�Ls �ra,s w�;t%a'n tFie City standards. Hathaway and Pillmor� a�� � botfi 10 � . ACt�ng Cha�i�man Harris stated that it seemed that som� of thosa s'k�eets t�ould be di.ff�,cult to put in and wondered i£ the City's l�ta�d��c�dsg�t�ii�e�icins for curb and gutter and black top street� would suifice. Darrel� Clark ans�rered that a 6� grade was not really very steep, onlY a matter of a rise o� 6'�f�et��e��ve�j�'100 feet. ,� P1ann�Ag Commission Meeting - August 5, 1970 Page 6 Mr. Van Eeckhout added that Suburban Engineering had done the plans f�r the pro'ect and that he was suxe that they had done a f�ne P`� job and none of t�e streets would be too difficult. r"� i'1 Acting Chairman Harxis then asked how many buildable lots there were in the residential area? Mr. Van Eeckhout answered that 100 out of the 120 lots were bu�ld�ble at a xeasonable cost and the other 20 they would eithex have to se11 at a loss or not develop at a11. Acting Chairman Harris commented that they would not l�ke to s@e th�se 20 lots on the tax delinquent rolls. Mx. Van Eeckhout said that all of the lots would economically stand on their own two feet, it was just that a few wouldn�t be very profitable. Acting Chairman Harris asked if the swampy land near the lake wou�d cause problems in installing streets and utilities, or if the low areas would have footing and foundation problems. Mr. Van Eeckhout stated that Viewcon had made several borin�s and �hat �here was actually very little peat in the area. Besides they only have one site on low ground, the rest of the sites are on th� ridges of the hills overlooking the low areas. Mr. vanald A. Zappa-1549 Berne Road - said that he could �pt �e� how building tot�nhouse apartments would save trees. Mr. Yan Eeckhout explained that there will be from 200 to 400 �eet of undisturbed land between the buildings. Residential dw�llirtgs have more or less formal lawns i.n front and back, the apartments will �ust havg small g�cass areas, possibly none at all. The garage� wi11 e �ttached to the buildi,ngs and there will be additional parki.ra$ in back. Act�ing Chaixman Harri.s asked if anything had been done bjac��b�� k�ax'ks and Recreation Commi.ssion about the park Viewcon was a£ferin$ to the City on the North end of the project? Darrel Clark answered that they hadn't met yet but he was su�� �h�t th�y would accept the land because they had been thinking of acaui�i�i� some tax forfeit lots i.n the same area. Mac. D�vi.d Doehlex commented that in fihe East the freewray �.nfi�xa eha.r�ges ha�re la�ge clovexlea�s for access to the f�eeways from �a��� developm�ents. He also thought that the traffic problean should be ta�ken ca�re of 'befoxe the l�nd is developed. Acx�.ng Chai.rman Harris stated that there were situations like �his a11 over�FxAdley. The City had �oubled its popula�ion in the last ten y�a�c� and is gxowing too fast to �ake care of all its pxoblsms. Th�s a�'ea is one o£ the �ea� large open spaces left in the City. Because o£ tiie many p�cobl�ms involved with development of the ar�a he w�s not pxep�xed to vote unt%1 the full Plannin� Commissi�n was pxc�s�x�t. Planning Commission Meeting - August 5, 1970 Page 7 Mr. Minish asked if it would be possible for the Commission to see piCturQS of the development at Twin Lakes North to get some idea of i"'� what the project would look like. Mr. Van Eeckhout said that it would probabl� be a better idea for the Planning Commission and any other interested members of the audience to actually view the development at Twin Lakes North. Acting Chairman Harris asked if there were any other possibilitias in developing the area? _. Mr. Yan Eeckhout explained that it would not be feasibls to build single family dwellings all over the area unless the land was free. 2Q0 units would not cover the cost of the project and the company does have to show a profit. They will build the homes themselves or build to aA owners specifications. Construction of the single family dwellings is planned for this fall and they hope to market th�m very qu�ckly. Mr. Minish asked why the apartments were condominium inst�ad pf �ental units. Mr. Yan Eeckhout explained that the rent for apaxtments would have to be around $250 per mont�, they could be purchased for $175 per month. Su�veys have shown that there is a high demand £or this type-� of housing in the a�ea. The price of each unit would probably ru� between $19,000 and $25,000. �� MOTTON b Schmedeke seconded b Minish that the Plannin Cotnm�s� on Cont�nue to t e u ust meetin consi eTat�pn Of t a �o ose xe �ninar P at .S. ,03 V�ewcon nc. o t e o t e l� o Sect�on 24 an t e Rezonin Re uest Z °Q5 � � ��e�rcon � nc. �to arezone t� �e E�1 o t e�E 1 4 o Sect�.on to xpzone rom ��-� to P. on a voa;ce vote al votin a e t e moti rt Caxx e� unanimous y. �t was then deci.ded that the Planning Gommission and any other i.nterested parties would meet with the Viewcon represen�atives at Twin Lakes North at 6:30 P.M. August 12, 1970. RECESS Acting Chairman Harris declared a recess at 9:55 P.M. �nd reconvened at 10:05 P.1�4. `-'- 3. PUBLIC HEARING: SPECIAL USE PERMIT REQUEST: SP #�0-09, 8Y ARTHt1R E. �A ON: To canstruct a second garage on Lot 3,$lock 2, Spring ro�Park Addition under Section 45.051, 2A, Accessory Uses (Page 12 Zoning Code). �"1 Planning Commi.ssion Meeting - August 5, 1970 Page 8 MOTION b Schmedeke seconded b Minish to waive the readin of the Pu 1 c earin Notice �or S eclal Use Perm�t Re uest: SP � rt ur B. Canton: To construct a second ara e on �ot �4 B1oc x n �oo Park A ition un er Section 45.051 2A Acce$�or Usa� a e 1 onin Co e. Mx. Arthur E. Canton-402 Longfello� Drive - explained to the Planning Commission that the reason.he�waated to build a secand g�xage�w�S� that his present garage �as too small for his car. He would like to use this garage for storage of his picnic tables and . snow plow and use the second garage for his car. Mr. Ho�ard 0. Rick-410 Longfellow Drive_- stated that the garage wAUld be within 12 feet of his garage and he had no objaction� �o i�. Mxs. Scott-391�:Ldn��ellow - sa�d that��s�e �ivesaac�oss the street £rom the property and has no objection to the second garage. She st�ted that Mr. Canton has always kept his property up very �icely. Acting Chairman Harris a'sked if there would be any problem w�th the �equiT�ment that the structure be 15 feet from any living area? Daxiel Clark answered that the structure met all the r�qu�xements. A represe�tativ� from ihe 5ussel Garage Company showed the � Plannin� Commission a sketch of t�he proposed garage. Both ga�ages �re situated behind the house. The new structure will ba 24 feet by Z� £����, ,.-, Th�xe will be driveways inta both structures and the outs�de o€ th� n�� gara�e wi1l,�amatch the house as closely as possible. MOTTON b Schmedeke seconded b Minish, that the Plann3n Cammission closo t e u Zc earin o t e pecia se, ermit: , Y iArt ur .. anton: o construct a second ara e on ot oc r� roo ar ition un er ection . 1, ccessor ses a� on n o e. on a voice vote a vot n a e t e mo o� carr e unan mous y. - Aetin� Chairman Harris asked if there was any furthe� discus��on � on the Special Use Pexmit. , MOTION by Minish seconded b Schmedeke that the Plann� Cvmmission recommen� a roval to t e Cit Council o t e ec1a1 U�e erm t: SP 70-09 Art ur E. Canton to construct a secon ara �-�� � o� Bloc 2 S rin Broo Par A ition un er Section .. ccessox ses Pa e onin Co e wit t e con �tions t at t e exte� ox o t e secon ara e matc t e existin ouse an t at t�r�. � a rivewa to t e secon ara e. U on a voice vote a vot�n ��- aye ` t e motion carr�e unanimously. 4, PLANTING BOULEVARD (40 FOOT) IN MOORE LAKE HIGHLANDS 4TH ADDTTTON: Mr. Schmedeke stated that he didn�t feel that the City should giva ,.—� up the planting st�ip as 1�ng as we already owned it. He felt �h�� �he pxob�e� should be re�erred to the Parks Depart�ent. The �T9a �S`"' no wo�se than Chase Island which may flood out every couple years.� Pvs��bly therQ �ou1d b� some picnic tables set up or a hors�shv� �ou�t. Planning Commi.ssion Meeting - August 5, 1970 Page 9 Acting Chairman Harris commented that the problem should be under � the juxisdiction of the Parks Department. The immediate problem is the debris on the strip. n � Mr. Schmedeke added that birch, willow and popal trees grow on the strip now and he was sure that evergreens could be introduced. MOTION b Schmedeke seconded b Minish that the Plannin Commiss�on re er t e ro lem o t e 40 oot lantin oulevar La e Hi lan s 4t A ition to the Par s and Recreation Commiss stu to see t e easa i it of usin it or an o en s ace area an o en s ace area is not easa le t at t e ar s an ecrea Cqmmission s oul ma e recommen ations for its use. U on a voi a voting, aye, t e motion carrie unanimously. in Moor ion or ce vote 5. LETTER FROM THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS: RE: Rice Creek Watershed Inter-League tu y Commission ate July 22, 1970. OTION b eceive tne ice ree c W �on a vo�ce Schmedeke seconded b Minish that the Planni etter from the Lea ue of Women Voters in re ar aters e Inter-Lea ue Stu Commission ate u vote, a 1 voting aye, t e motion carrie unani Commissi to t a ��970 sly. 6. STREET NAME SIGN STANDARDS: Mr. Peter Herlofsky from the Planning Department was present. Mr. Herlofsky explained that the signs that the Planning Department had in mind were 9 inch color coded signs exactly like the onas which the Minneapolis Street Department will be using. Green desi$nated North-South streets, brown designated East-West streets. Mr. Schmedeke thanked Mr. Nasim Qureshi, City Engineer°Director of Planning for the information he had compiled on the street si$ns and said that he was glad something was being done. He added that he agreed with the color scheme, size,,and placement of the signs as shown on the Planning Depaxtmentts map but thought that the placement should begi.n immediately and instead of placing the signs at different intersections that one main thoroughfare, such as Mississippi Stxe�t, should use the new signs completely. - Mr. Min�.sh and Acting Cha�rman Harris�agreed that Mississippi Street should be used as a trial street. Acting Chairman Harris asked what the difference in price was between the 6 inch sign and the 9 inch sign? Mx. Herlofsky replied that there was a three dollar di.fference between the two signs and added that only the signs wou�d hav� to be rep�.aced, the street sign posts were useable. Plan�3,ng Commission Meeting - August S, 1970 Page 10. MOTION b Schmedeke seconded�M%nish tha,t the �lann�ng Comm�ssion recammen o t e '�L'ounc%��roval o t e treHt Name � �ign an ar s as re ared��y�t e n �.neering epartment and t— a3i t PX'�`�si ss T� �ee xvm i w�y ' to entral�Cvenue e use to �,s� �,y ese s�gns $n e lanning o�mmission opes to see this xv�x c�a►ple�e�'���' . pon a vo�ce vote, a voting aye, tTie mv t�,on c�,�rx �,e� unan�,�iipusly , ADJOURNMENT: Acting Chairman Harris adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 10:50 P.M. n 0 r 1 0 Respectfully submitted . �G�� �� Nikki Finck Acting Secretary